Judge John Hodgman - The Puck Stops Here

Episode Date: April 1, 2015

Should Scott get back out on the ice and play beer league hockey with his friend, or is he TOO OLD?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the puck stops here. Steve brings the case against his friend Scott. Years ago, Scott introduced Steve to a love of hockey by inviting him to professional games and teaching him how to play. Steve went on to play in a local rec league, but Scott quit playing entirely. but Scott quit playing entirely. Now Steve wants his friend to get back into the sport and play one last season with him. Should Scott get back out on the ice or continue to watch from the stands? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference.

We've taken a little of the tailgating scene on the day of the actual game. Life's sweet. Small things often tend to describe themselves. And that's true here, too. People wear jerseys, Lindros and Fleury, whalers and canes, Stahl and Cole and Skinner, Skinner, Skinner. It feels relaxed and friendly and familiar.

North Carolina has saved one of its prettiest, warmest winter days for its guests from all over. People gather around cars and lounge and lawn chairs, eating and visiting and drinking and grilling and playing cornhole and drinking Bud Light. About which, if I weren't already way over word count, I would have a few choice words. Bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do.

Yes. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that the lake in his backyard literally never freezes over? I do. Yes, I do. Very well, Judge Hodgman. That lake, by the way, is in wintry New England.

I keep it heated so it'll never freeze. So there will be no risk of hockey being played on it at any time. No, guys, I like hockey fine. Of all of the minor league sports, hockey is my favorite. And for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, Scott and Steve, can either of you name the piece of culture that I quoted about hockey as I entered the courtroom? Scott. You want to try first?

Yeah, Scott. I would say Ron Francis' biography. Oh, but I like the reference. Not Ron Francis' biography. So, Scott, you clearly know about hockey steve not sure but something to do with an all-star game yes you are correct but wrong so much it was it was a piece of journalism written about the 2011 all-star game in north carolina held in north carolina and was covered for the Indy week,

which is the alternative weekly in Durham Chapel Hill, Raleigh research triangle of North Carolina and written by hockey fan and friend of the show, John Darneel of the mountain goats. Jesse, did you know that John Darneel is a big hockey fan? He's also a big fight fan. If I'm not mistaken. And is a big hockey fan? He's also a big fight fan, if I'm not mistaken. He is, and he's a wrestling fan. He's got a record coming out. It's all about

wrestling in the future, but this was some of his hockey journalism that he wrote. John and I are good friends, and he has shown me a little bit of the ways that one can appreciate hockey, though it is hard, difficult for me to appreciate his North Carolina Hurricanes. For what reason? Scott, I bet you know. Because they used to be the Hartford Wellers. That is true. North Carolina stole Hartford, Connecticut's only major league sports franchise.

And while Connecticut goes on and hedge funds are funded and insurance is still made, there's something so sad about one of my New England states being robbed of its major league sports franchise and it's a hockey franchise to boot something so sad and wonderful and wistful and underdoggy about the fact that bradley international airport still sells hartford whalers gear featuring the greatest logo in sports scott and steve uh you may be seated i forgot to let you sit down so that we could talk about your hockey fight, which is the only reason someone goes to see a hockey game. Fighting. Steve, you bring the fight to this court.

What's the prob? All right. So a few years ago at the advanced age of 42, Scott sweet-talked me into learning to play hockey. And as soon as I start playing, he then promptly retires from the game, thereby denying us the chance to ever play in a real game together. So that's always cheesed me a little bit. But the real reason I brought the case is that Scott still deeply,

madly loves hockey, and he also desperately, desperately needs a hobby. And I think that hobby should be playing hockey with my team, the Puccalolos, who, by the way, wear a jersey based on the Hartford Whalers old jersey. Yeah, we're green. Green is not enough. Does it make innovative use of negative space, according to the design of the Hartford Logos Whaler designed by Peter Good of Connecticut? Well, it's a P instead of a W, but there's plenty of negative space. Look at Apokalos.

Yeah, look at the evidence. I believe there's a photo of me wearing the jersey. And John, this is Scott. And in addition to the Apokalos wearing the old Hartford Whalers jersey, I know Steve, I think, sent in some evidence with me playing on a different team,

and we too used the Hartford Whalers jersey for that team, the California Leafs, in homage use the hartford whalers jersey for that team the california leafs uh in homage to the hartford whalers too oh actually i forgot to send in your evidence oh okay i don't see i don't see you playing for the california leafs but just like just like all men in their 40s you have a you have a uh a mutual and shared uh shared reverence for the Hartford Logos Whaler. And so you have almost sweet-talked me into, I guess, finding them both your favors. But I want to see this thing because I see you, Steve,

drinking from your Beer League trophy in your jersey, but I don't see the logo for the Puccalolos. The trophy is so big it must have been blocking it. Well, that wasn't the issue. It was just a bet. Puccalolos. P-U-C-K-A-L-O-L-O-S? Correct.

I see the green jersey. I see the Hartford green jersey, but I do not see any of the logos. I know it's just a P. It's just a P. Steve, what kind of game are you running on me here? We like to keep it simple. See, this is an indication of the way you exaggerate.

Do you even know? Thank you, Scott. I don't think I can believe Steve for a second. Do you even know why the Hartford Logo's wailer is so compelling? Oh, it's because of that 70s style font, right? No, no, no. It's because there's a whale tail in the logo. Oh, right.

Right. And the whale tail also creates, using negative space, the letter. W. W. W. Yeah. Wrong. Oh my God. Well, you guys both got on my good side there for a second. But now you're both being back on my bad side. Being penalized.

Look at the video of me appearing at the Hartford Forum in the year 2013 when I overtake an otherwise enjoyable panel discussion between me, Carrie Brownstein, and Baratunde Thurston to yell at the audience, which included Peter Good, the designer of the logo, about the brilliance of the Hartford Whalers logo. It includes me taking off my shirt and putting on a Whalers shirt.

And that, first of all, is your sentence. You have to go educate yourselves about this logo that you seem, you claim to care about, but know nothing about. Now you're both in this court's penalty box sports scott yes steve says you lured him into the world of hockey only to abandon him there like a like a cad and that and that you should go play hockey with him and what's more, you need a hobby. How do you respond? Well, I did get him involved in hockey. I'll give him that.

And, but, you know, he's a grown man. He got in on his own free will. And just because I happened to get out at the same time doesn't have anything to do with his enjoyment of the game. I think that the case sort of obscures Steve's sort of underlying motivation, which is, it might seem strange to say, but it's kind of a mixture of biochemistry, addiction, and a fear of death. And we can get into that later if you'd like, but I just don't. I think you're describing the recipe for Hodgman brand real heavy duty mayonnaise sold only in gallon jars, I believe. A mixture of, what was it?

Biochemistry. Biochemistry. Addiction. Addiction. And a fear of death. Fear of death, yeah. What isn't motivated by biochemistry, addiction, and a fear of death? Steve's motivation to get us on air here and his court case against

me are all driven by those three things. Everything else is a sham. Steve, if I were to find in your favor, just so that I understand the stakes of this particular game, if I find in your favor, am I to compel Scott to play hockey with the Buccalolos once more? That's right. A whole season? A single game? Or what? We'll take him as a sub. So like, on an as-needed basis. You mean you'll draft him at any time?

Yeah, yeah. So we'll give him a free pass on the late games so he doesn't have to stay up too late so he can get his beauty sleep, which he needs about 10 or 11 hours a night. And otherwise, you know, we'll get him in on the early games and reacquaint him with what he really likes the most. May I ask you, sir, to keep your bro-y teasing of your friend to a minimum here? I would not like to think that you brought up this whole case to my court merely to be able to tease your friend about how much he likes to sleep. I have other things I want to tease him about too. Wow. No teasing,

just genuine expression. Unless it's a really funny joke. Yes, your honor. Scott, why is this unacceptable to you to be a sub on the Pukalolos? Because of your lifelong devotion to the California Leafs? I started playing hockey when I was four and I played till I was 42. I feel as if I've had my run. I've never enjoyed the culture. I think it's a beautiful sport played by morons. And I just am kind of done with it. And to try to pull me back for his own needs is just seems a bit selfish and maniacal in my in my sin.

Given what Scott just said, Steve, are you trying to lure him back onto the ice in order to kill him? Are you, are you and your hockey friends laying out a trap to get him on the ice and then get into a legal hockey fight, which of course a legal hockey fight means any fight. And then we'll, and then you intend to beat him to death for his, his abuse of you guys as morons. Not at all, Judge.

I really feel like if left to his own devices, Scott will sit around and do nothing. And so I look at subbing for the Pukalolos as a good alternative to doing nothing since we're both only 48 and we like to think we have many years ahead of us.

Well, you're both wrong. Yeah, that's the fear of death right there what years remain what years remain to you will go by in a in a in a in a blink of it'll it'll go by as fast as a what's a hockey term give me a hockey metaphor slap shot scott i was gonna say slap shot would that that have worked? Yeah, that'll work. I'm smarter than I thought. Scott, Steve claims that you introduced him to the world of hockey. He seems to have taken to at least its aggro side quite naturally. What did he do before he played hockey?

Well, here's the thing that's so strange. And this is, you know, Steve was such a mild-mannered guy we met almost 20 years ago we were neighbors uh and he guys live had uh we live in uh southern california and um we lived on either side of yeah and uh we were on either side of a a duplex we both had black labs or he had a chocolate brown lab at a black lab the dogs kind of got us together and we became friendly. Steve was a mild-mannered guy. He was a photographer, hobbyist, worked for the newspaper of record here where he won a Pulitzer. So he was an intellectual. We could talk about water issues in California. We could talk about transit issues. We could talk about the city council. Now, now he wants to talk about how

he drills people in front of the net with his stick and, and other stuff. And I can't even have an intellectual conversation with him anymore because he's got, he's, he's been just consumed by this hockey culture and, uh, it's, it's, it's ridiculous. So, um, that's kind of, uh, what, where the problem lies. He was a mild-mannered guy, and now he's just taken over the whole culture of being one a jock and two a hockey player, and it's a bit exhausting. You turned him into a hockey monster? Unfortunately, I did. I wasn't aware that he didn't have whatever sort of inoc not, you know, take in that culture the way he did. But he obviously doesn't have that. Steve, first of all, congratulations on your Pulitzer.

Oh, thank you. It was a long time ago. Uh-huh. Did you play sports before Scott got you into hockey in middle age? Not so much as an adult, more as a kid. So as an adult, you know, it was like mostly outdoor kind of recreation like hiking kayaking that type of thing uh-huh and then so this was the first organized sport you had gotten into i in a long time i think like in my 20s i might have played like some softball yeah but this is hockey you know this is hot yeah this is different right yeah you need to be really drunk to play this game, not half drunk like softball. I think it's safe to say it's your first contact sport.

That would be true. All right. And you obviously enjoy it a lot. How do you respond to the idea that it has changed your life and personality, as Scott is accusing? I think he's overstating it. I mean, I like playing the sport because I'm not particularly good at it, but I like the fact that it takes me out of my comfort zone because when you go from sitting in a cubicle all day to like being in your little hockey uniform and there's things flying around you at high speed, it's a good wake-up call. I think I'm

a little competitive, but I've also been the captain of my team where the co-captain in the last couple of years. So it's kind of my job to make sure we're competitive. Uh, you know, and I, I sort of take that a little bit seriously, I suppose. Is Steve onto your team going to make your team more competitive, less competitive or neutral? I would say Scott would make us more competitive. I apologize. I think I referred to Scott as Steve. You have to understand, I'm talking to two white guys who play hockey named Scott and Steve. It's hard to tell you

apart. I apologize. No worries. He would be an upgrade. I would be an upgrade. Is Scott a good player? He's a very good player. He's a good hockeyist? He moves smooth as silk.

Very fast. What is Scott's big move? He's short, and he's a small guy, which makes him speedy and very elusive. And he's very good at the stick handling, like the puck is right there, and you think you got it, and then it's gone.

He has a good shot too. Scott, do you still got it? Oh, I'll always have it. That's not a question. It's whether I want to use it. Why don't you want to play? One of the things that, as I said, I've always had a love hate relationship with hockey. I come from, I mean, hockey is like a cult.

I mean, you only get into it if your family's into it and you're born into it. My dad comes from Springfield, Mass. Or you're some pencil-neck, Pulitzer-winning word pusher who gets brought into it late in life and is inducted into the cult late. Then you go all the way. Right, right. Of course, by a cultist. And so I've always had a love hate relationship with hockey. I enjoy the sport. I think the sport's beautiful. I love skating. I love the speed of it and just how you're all in. It's almost like a meditation, but I hate the culture. I can't stand

the sort of jock mentality. I've never been a jock. And at some point, you just have to sort of wrap that up and move on. And that's kind of where I was when I was 42, which I think is a pretty good run for a hobbyist hockey player. So to ask me to come back simply because I'm skilled and you want your team to win another cup seems a little self-serving to me. But he also wants his friend. Do I misunderstand the situation, Steve? Yeah, you do not judge. That's very correct. I mean, behind all of this bluster, Scott gave up on me. He should get back in on the ice. He's a loser who needs a hobby. Don't you just want to say,

I wish I could play hockey with you, friend? Exactly. Well, friend? Exactly. Well, say those words. I wish I could play hockey with you, friend. Now do it without laughing at yourself. Do I have to look him in the eye also? Yeah, that's the most important part of hockey is eye contact and sincerity. Didn't you read the hockey manual?

I wish I could play hockey with you, how do you respond to that uh no interest steve has a lot of friends he plays hockey with his whole team is full of friends what about you draw an interesting distinction between the athlete and the jock. How would you define that distinction? An athlete is somebody who has a natural organic ability, a native talent for athletic endeavors, whatever they may be, but also has a brain and has other interests outside of sports and doesn't live their life through the lens of an athlete mentality. So, you know, when you pack up your little bag of equipment and you go out into the world, you're a human being, not an athlete. And then when you come to the rink, you're an athlete. A jock is something completely different. A jock is someone who takes the culture of their particular sport and lives it at every moment

and thinks everyone else should too. And that's something that's just exhausting. And it's also sort of a bit Neanderthal in terms of, you know, the biggest and strongest are the ones who rule and all that. It gets very tiring. Boy, you're a snob, man. I never thought that I, an asthmatic mustache from Brookline, Massachusetts, would be out there defending jockism.

You take a pretty low view. How do you respond to that, Steve? Well, I think his definition has one problem with it, which is it suggests that he has other interests outside of hockey. And I've known Scott for 20 years, and I don't know what those interests are. He's talked about having hobbies. Like for a while he said he was going to bake bread. Well, still waiting for my loaf your honor um he was going to build ships in his garage oh you'll never loaf yeah uh he was going to be a pilates instructor never happened

and there was oh he was going to build tiny houses and flip them and that never happened either so there's been this lot of talk about, oh, I'm this well-rounded man. I'm not just about the ice. It's like, no, you're all about the ice. Because when he does have free time, it's usually he spends his money and his time going to a hockey game. So if he's going to go to the game, he might as well be in it. Let me go down the list here, Scott. And I apologize. You guys, it's, it's truly going to take me a pause of about three seconds. Every time I address you to remember which one of you I'm talking to or what

your name is. I mean, I have very clear mental pictures of you both. And I see images of you. You are distinct human beings and so on, but this is the C the Steve and Scott thing. It's just getting to me. So Scott,

non hockey, Scott hockey, Steve, right? Do I have that correct? No, no. Hockey Scott, non-hockey Steve. Oh, yeah. You got it right. Yeah, nice.

Just remember, Steve's the one with glasses. Steve has glasses. Scott doesn't. I'm the nasally one. You say, yeah, no, no. I understand. Believe me, even though I can't see you, your voice and your point of view and your aggro position come through very distinctly. Scott is like I'm talking to an owner of a dispensary.

Mellow. How did I know? He's a mellow dude compared to you, Steve. But it's pro hockey Steve, anti-hockey Scott, anti-hockey Scott. Right. Let's go down the list. Let's do it. Did you say you were going to learn how to bake bread?

Yes, I did. Have you baked a loaf of bread in your life? I bought the book, but it seemed very complicated. and you had to sort of babysit this starter forever, and it just seemed like too much trouble. Did you build a ship in your garage? What? No, well, I wanted to build a wooden boat, just a skiff. How can you do that? How can you learn to do that?

You're in Southern California. You're not in Brooklyn, Maine, the wooden boat building capital of the world. Yeah, well, I grew up in Connecticut and used to spend a lot of time at Mystic Seaport up there. And so it was just kind of something I've always wanted to do. All right. And you didn't do it. No, I didn't get to do it. Fail on that. How far did you get?

Did you buy the book? No, I didn't get the book on that one. I bought some wooden boat magazines, but that was it. Sure. Yeah, wooden boat magazine. Headquartered in Brooklyn, Maine. Wooden boat building capital of the world. I don't want to hear about Mystic.

Don't even come at me with mystic. Pilates, did you learn to be, are you a Pilates instructor? I'm not an instructor yet, but I did set up a Pilates studio in my home. So I'm still kind of working on that one. That one's moving forward. You have a reformer in there? Yeah, yeah. What's the other one?

Cadillac. The Cadillac? The destroyer? The disruptor? Yeah, the disruptor, yeah. What's the other one? Cadillac. The Cadillac? The Destroyer? The Disruptor? Yeah, the Disruptor, exactly. And you're going to build tiny houses? Are you talking about small one-room houses and sell them, or are you talking about miniature houses for railway sets and flip them?

No. Were you going to buy up old railway sets and and redo all the houses and sell them for a profit uh yeah no i was going to you know how they have these tiny houses that they put on trailers uh and you can move them around they're like 110 square feet 120 square feet i'm kind of a minimalist so i kind of got into those for a while and but you're such a minimalist you don't do any of the things you think about doing. Well, I'm consistent. Yeah. What do you do in your life? Are you retired? Why are you coming up with hobbies to fill your time? Well, cause I mean, I, I gotta admit, uh, I used to play a lot of sports and I've, I've quit all of them at about the same time. And so

not just hockey. No, I used to downhill ski and I used to play soccer in a league. And, and, but at, at 42, I felt it was sort of enough. And so I was trying to find something that would kind of fill the time now that I wasn't doing those sports. Uh, but I haven't found that thing yet. A lot of people believe that the, um, and I should say I've been, I've been buzz marketing. That's like crazy. And the last pod, the last episode that we recorded, and now I'll do it again. And Mark Adams' Meet Me in Atlantis, now available from Dutton Books,

a great book by a great guy, talks about how all cultures have a flood myth. Noah's Ark, Gilgamesh, do you know what I mean? It's pervasive. And some people see it as evidence that we all come from a single atlantean culture no comment but there's there's also the case that there was a series of natural catastrophes around 1500 bc that people now think might have caused massive tsunamis throughout the mediterranean european region uh that gave rise to this flood myth.

And it also laid waste dozens of civilizations that just got wiped out all at once across the board. That sounds like your sports career. Something happened at the age of 42 where you gave up downhill skiing, soccer, hockey, and whatever else you were doing. You don't play any organized sports now, right? No, none. So what was the catastrophic event? What was the flood?

What was the tsunami, physical or emotional, that caused you to pack it all up at age 42, having just passed on the hockey gauntlet to, uh, to aggro Steve? Um, I don't think it was any one thing. I think it was just, uh, you know, you get older. Um, I don't, not, not, not all of us are so lucky. There's something about it. Uh, so, you know, you get a little older and you start to sort of, uh, shift and adjust and, and make new modifications, uh, weed out things that you're not really interested in anymore and look for new things, make space for new things.

So I think it was more a question of that than it was anything else. I mean I don't really see the problem with not really doing anything. I mean I think America kind of has an action bias and they think that movement shows some sort of positive activity and just, you know, non-movement is, is, is negative, but I don't really see that. I have no problem just sitting around and daydreaming or, you know, I, I, I like my own company, so I'm fine there. But, uh, so I, it just was, do you have a family? No, no, I'm not married. I don't have a family. He lives with, I'm not married. I don't have a family. Well, he lives with his domestic partner. Yeah, I have a girlfriend, but we're not married, no.

Do you live together? Yeah, we live together. You have another human in your life that you're sharing your life with? Yes. Yes. Now I know I can't trust you. Why couldn't you trust me after that? What would that indicate? Well, because I said, are you married? Do you have a family?

No, no, I'm just by myself. But it turns out you have a live-in girlfriend. Oh, no, I think I might just be horribly literal. You asked if I was married and I'm not married. How long has your girlfriend been in your life? Five and a half years. And how old are you? 48, going to be 49.

And what is 48 and a half minus five and a half? Uh, that would be 43, 43. I don't like to do math, but, but was, was your giving up of sport in your life?

Did that predate the meeting of your girlfriend? Is that, or, or, Oh no, no, it was, it was post. Yeah. After I met her. Okay. Gotcha. And is that part of the reason? I mean, I'm not,

I don't want to go down a road where, where, you know, your girlfriend ruined sports for your buddies. I'm just curious. She's actually an athlete herself. No. Um, I think that she helped the transition because she's entertaining. And so, you know, she took up a bunch of time. And so the time that I wasn't doing sports, I could now go on long walks with her or, you know, do other things with her that maybe weren't quite as athletic, but we're still entertaining in the real world. I forget. Are you employed?

Oh, yeah. I'm a, uh, assistant Dean at a business school in Southern California. All right. So you have a fair amount of time off. Uh, no, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not an academic assistant Dean and administrative. So we don't get the same sort of nine month schedule. Okay. So you work, you work a regular schedule schedule. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Steve, you just heard Scott describe the zen-like peace that he has found in his life, appreciating that he doesn't have to be go, go, go, go, go all the time, that he can spend a lot of his time doing nothing and daydreaming. Is this offensive to you? It's not offensive, but the reason I decided to pursue the case was I've always sort of asked him, you want to come back and play hockey? And he's been noncommittal about it. And I just let it go.

But a few Saturdays ago on a beautiful, sunny afternoon, we were talking on the phone and I said, what's up to? And he said, oh, I'm watching Match Game 75 reruns on YouTube. And on one hand, I was pleasantly surprised that he actually wasn't napping and was doing something. But on the other hand, the something that he was doing was I considered a new low, even for Scott. Why? I mean, Match Game 75, that is just not a good 70s game show by any measure. Why? You prefer the original season of Match Game? I mean,

I just remember it was a show I wouldn't even watch when I was a kid. I mean, why would you watch it when you have to tell the truth and those types of things? Do you even know what Match Game is, sir? Sort of. Do you know who the host of Match Game is?

Oh. I know Richard Sort of. Do you, do you know who the hosted match game is? Oh, uh, I know Richard Dawson was on quiet. Be quiet, sir. Gene Rayburn. Do you know why match game is the best game show of the seventies? Thank you,

Steve. No, sir. Cause they were all drunk. Exactly. Do you know that Gene Rayburn is not only the host of the greatest game show of the seventies and a very funny guy. And it was a great opportunity to,

especially now to go back and look and see what television was and what celebrity was like in the seventies, like a bunch of really unattractive people with terrible teeth and mustaches and ascots getting drunk and smoking pipes on television. Great. The greatest period of time to be on television. Thank you. But also did you even know non hockey Scott that that long microphone,

the G Rayburn used, you know, that long microphone. Yeah. It's very, I never understood. Only he and Bob Barker use those. Yeah. G Jean Rayburn used, you know, that long microphone. Yeah. It's very, I never understood. Only he and Bob Barker use those. Yeah. Gene, Gene Rayburn used this long microphone, right? So it was a, it was a very delicate,

this is before they had lav mics or if they had them, they weren't using them on game shows that a lav mic being a mic that would pin to your, to your collar or whatever. And, and this long skinny delicate microphone so that would pin to your, to your collar or whatever. And, and this long, skinny, delicate microphone. So that, uh,

that, that was much longer than a regular microphone so that it would be less obtrusive and that he wouldn't have to hold his hand right by his face the entire time that he talked. Do you know that he invented that microphone? Gene Rayburn invented the mic. Really? Game show host,

three piece suit wearer, funny guy, inventor. What were you saying, Steve, about Match Game 75? Oh, that's right. Nothing. Thank you, Scott, for spending your time wisely. What else, Steve? How else does Scott waste his time? Well, I know on a resume he once listed napping as a hobby, and I think his other main hobby now would be showering. So it sort of goes back and forth between napping and showering. Now we're into something here because, is that true, Scott? Did you list on your resume napping as a hobby? That was a joke. I showed it to Steve as a joke,

but I never turned it in. I put it there as a joke because I do like a nap. I think there's nothing wrong with a nap. I think napping is a lost art. I think we're all sleep deprived due to our go-go mentality. And a nap is just a wonderful way to refresh yourself for the evening. I agree with you. But when do you take your nap? All the time. But your afternoon nap is in preparation for your evening nap. Only on Saturdays and Sundays. During the week, I never do an afternoon nap, just an early evening nap. Only on Saturdays and Sundays during the week. I never do an afternoon nap, just an early evening nap.

And then I move into my evening. Tell me about your early evening nap. Uh, it, it sort of makes my break between work and, uh, and my evening, uh,

with my girlfriend dinner and everything else. So I'll come home and take a little, uh, like cat nap. Give me times. Tell me what, tell me what goes on. Uh,

about get home from about five 45 and sleep from about five 45 to maybe six 30 and then get up and, uh, eat some dinner and then get in the sleep. You fall asleep dreaming. Uh, sometimes you have not, you don't have too many dreams in those cat naps. They're pretty, they're pretty quick. And, uh, let me just walk you through it. Cause what I'm trying to, what I'm trying to figure out here is, is if Steve is exaggerating your nap habit to the point that I suspect that you might be, uh,

depressed or whether you're just napping. So you get up, what time of the morning you get up? Uh, six o'clock in the morning. What time do you go to work? Uh, seven o'clock.

All right. And you play Minesweeper all day at work or whatever it is you do. No, actually, it's a challenging job. Yeah. Okay. What time do you wrap up? About 5.15. Wait a minute.

What time do you show up again? Eight in the morning. You show up at eight. Right. That's when work starts? Starts at eight. What do you show up again? Eight in the morning. You show up at eight, right? That's when work starts, starts at eight. What do you do for lunch? I normally work through lunch and I,

I'm on the road a lot cause my job is about 50% on the road. So there's a lot of travel. What do you do? What are you doing on the road? Selling people diplomas? No, uh, actually connecting with companies and,

and you know, alumni. What are your responsibilities as, as, as the responsibilities as a dean at this business school? I create all connectivity between the school and the outside world. So I create corporate connectivity, connectivity with the alumni, connectivity with senior business professionals, government. What do you mean create connectivity? I don't understand what you're talking about.

Have meetings? No, no, no. So like if we want, if we, if we have a center that we do sponsored research for, so faculty do research, I might get, I might get a large logistics company to come and do a logistics research project through our faculty, stuff like that. Okay. So you're not, you're not laying fiber optic cable. No, it's not. It's not physical labor. You're personally liaisoning, liaising with these different populations. I am a liaise, yes. I'm liaising on a daily basis. All right.

Yeah. You know that saying, Steve, there's no lazing when you're liaising. So I've heard. Yeah. All right. So you work through lunch. You come home at 5.15. Take your nap.

Get up. Who makes dinner? My girlfriend makes dinner. Yeah. Then you eat the dinner. And then what? You watch a little TV? Then we normally go for a long walk.

Go for a long walk around Southern California. Beautiful. Yeah. Talking about things just, or maybe just enjoying the silence. A little of both. Yeah. And then,

and then you, you come home. I don't want to hear about any personal stuff. No, watch a little TV, go to bed. Yeah. Watch a little TV.

What do you guys, you guys watching something together or something separately? Mostly separately. We've got very different tastes and uh we go we go against type in terms of what we watch well maybe not me but she does she likes action i like uh a little bit more uh independent videos of of logs burning in fireplaces yeah or or or rock gardens i like shows that have very slow pacing that's why i like match game 75 because the pacing of the patter is nice and slow and it reminds me of a of an earlier time and then what time do you fall asleep would you say uh probably about 11 11 30 yeah it's perfect life why would you yeah present life huh why would you want to ruin it with hockey? Why would you want to ruin your friend's life with hockey?

I think Scott's overstating his Renaissance-type life, and I would like to point to some evidence I submitted. I think it's number six, an email exchange between myself and his domestic partner. Let's do a little role play. You read your questions and I'll read the answers as Steve's girlfriend. Okay. One, what would you describe as Scott's main hobby? Napping or showering or something else?

Answer, noodling around. I'm not going to do her voice, Scott. I hope you don't mind. Oh, that's fine. Noodling around, including watching lots of TV, napping and pestering me while I try to be productive. Really annoying. Number two, could you take a photo of Scott napping or sitting around doing nothing and email it to me? I'd love to, but Scott is very sensitive about having his picture taken and we rarely take pictures. So it'd be very suspicious. I don't think I can,

but we'll try. Then number three, what does Scott do around the apartment? Most of the time? Absolutely nothing. He seems perfectly comfortable doing nothing at all. Have fun on Tuesday, which is today.

Scott. Yeah. Any of those answers surprise you? Uh, point of view, your girlfriend's point of view, surprise you in any way? No. No, I think it's in line with what we've been talking about. Yeah.

The thing is, Steve, you could read, like, here's the thing. Do you pester, Scott, do you pester your girlfriend while she's trying to be productive and be really annoying? Yes. What is she doing trying to be productive? What does she do in her life? She used to be a cook. So when she's cooking dinner, she's really into it and she loves to cook. She's also back in school.

So she studies now and then, but she sometimes doesn't know when to take a break. So I make sure that I take care of her by coming over and pestering her when she needs a good break. What's pestering her mean? Do you tap out the rhythm of theme songs to TV shows on her arm? It's normally sort of an odd dance or some sort of something

else, but just something to get her attention so it breaks her sort of focus and she can regroup and then get back to it. So while she's enjoying herself doing what makes her happy and being productive, you try to distract her from that because you know better than her, just like Steve knows better than you about what makes you happy. Yeah, I guess I'd agree with that.

Steve, are you under the impression that hockey is going to justify your life in some way that it would not if you did not play hockey? No, but I do think it gives me something to do rather than sit around and watch house hunters, which is probably what I would be stuck doing if I wasn't playing hockey. You don't come into this. Have you even listened to this show? Don't come into this court and, and jockelly sniff at match game 75 and then turn around and,

and be rude about house hunters. Yeah. Well, I know you I've actually watched. I know you're not talking about House Hunters International, a vastly superior show. If you want to ditch on House Hunters, I could maybe get behind that. But we can agree that House Hunters International

is some of the best television on television. Right, Steve? I will concede the international editions better than the domestic version he's just sucking up now yeah that's fine but do you know what scott i'll allow it okay because i don't because you know what scott because i don't buy it i don't buy i don't know i don't buy you sir me yeah oh guy gives up guy's an athlete his whole life and gives it all up at the age of 42, 43. And I ask him, what happened? And it's just like, oh, you know, just some life changes, man.

No, something happened. What happened, Steve? In your opinion, why didott give it all up i mean i think at one point he might have suffered a minor injury so because he's always he always plays the injury card like either my back is too bad to continue to play or my i'll get hurt if i continue to play. And so when we actually go to the pro- Something, all right. Scott, did something scare you off hockey? Is there some trauma that we're not talking about here? No, nothing scared me off.

But I mean, we do get older. I know you don't, but we get older. And I don't want to take any chances. I don't see any need to continue to play a sport simply because I played it in the past or because I have a skill to play it. To continue to play a sport where I get a little irritated in the culture of it all and also may possibly get injured in the future doesn't seem like a rational calculus. You know, if you run through that calculus, it seems as if the answer is maybe you hang it up. What is so annoying to you about the culture of hockey aside from pushiness and aggro Steve? There's so many times I played center when I, when I played hockey. So you, you face off at the beginning of the game and during the game at

various times. And, uh, I, I can't count. I've lost count the number of times I've, you know, gotten to the center ice to start the game and has said hello to the player across from me to sort of just be polite and, and, and, uh, introduce myself. And I get a sort of string of expletives, uh, just to show that he's dominant and that I'm not going to get under his skin or in his head. And it's just exhausting. That whole sort of mentality is just, is just exhausting. Uh, the, the, the arguing, the banter, uh, I mean, I know most guys really enjoy the locker room, drinking beers, sitting around, uh, chatting until late at night. Um, but I like to get home and get to bed. I'm not a big beer drinker.

Uh, you know, I don't like to tell fish stories. I just, you know, so the whole thing kind of gets a little old after a while. Yeah. Alpha male bullying, Steve, what you're doing to Scott right now, is that not a part of hockey? What do you get out of hockey that you enjoy so much that, that Steve is no longer a part of i mean i think what i like about it the most is that i never expected to play it i mean prior to scott sweet talking me into so i gave you a gift yeah and now you pay me back your honor scott's just way out of order here um i mean i'll be the judge of that nice going scott this is exactly how he plays hockey too he's just very annoyed

i mean prior to playing i never thought when scott plays hockey when you've played with him once before at least right and he's a good player he's very good i mean the first thing he did is he yeah he took me out on the ice and started firing pucks at me yeah just to get me used to the feeling of being hit with a puck um and then he i think he took me into the boards to show me what that would be like yeah and so but you know at the time he was alpha male he was alpha mailing you oh yeah totally picking on a guy. And you want to get payback now? Is that not so? No, no, not at all.

You want to crush him. I don't think I could crush him even if I wanted to. Our league is a pretty friendly league. I play in a very friendly way. That's not what Scott says. He says he goes up to people and they yell and they say bad words at him. No, I would say no. I've never been in a fight. Do you deny and they say bad words at him no i i would no i i've never been in a deny that do you deny that they say bad words we i would say a couple of times in the last five

years i've had gentlemanly disagreements with some people from the other team that is hey uh judge if i may ask please please ask steve what happened to the last ringer he brought onto his team. What is that ringer doing right now? I'll let the question stand. Steve? He's taking a break. Do you know what he's referring to? Yeah, I do know what he's saying. I would argue with the characterization of this player being a ringer.

I would say he's a player of high skill. Where is he, he had an incident in which he bumped into the, the net and he shook up his ribs a little bit and he broke his ribs. Only two. There's a lot more than two. And now you need to replace him. He'll be back in like three weeks.

So we're good. Oh, so because you, you busted up the ribs or the ribs of your ringer got busted up. You're trying to get Scott into that position because you need them now. No, it's apples and oranges. He's using this. He's using that. They're both delicious hand fruit. I never knew that.

He's, he's trying to say that my only motivation is about winning the games. And while I do like to win, my motivation here is to save Scott from himself, which is to save Scott from a life of constant napping and showering. That does sound horrible. I know. When you say it out loud, it doesn't sound as bad as it did in as bad. I've heard everything I need to make my decision. I'm going to slide down this ice slide into my frozen chambers. I'll do some meditative curling and I'll be back with you in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. my decision please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom steve maybe before the judge gets back we should have a quick discussion like maybe make a list of other stuff we should save scott from i'm thinking lasagna is going to be on there um pizza back rubs, Downton Abbey. I like Downton Abbey. Really? Yeah, I like Downton Abbey. I wish I didn't know that. How do you feel about your chances in the case?

Pretty much like I do when I have the puck and I'm trying to skate up the ice, a little slightly uncomfortable. Scott, how do you feel? I'm pretty confident. I mean, I think that the judge saw the value in my lifestyle. He saw that I'm a happy guy in my lifestyle, and I think he'll let it stand. What are you so afraid of?

Steve. Steve's much bigger than me. I'm like a shrimp out there. Everyone I play with is taller and bigger than I am. Steve, why do I get the feeling that this guy that you brought in who broke his ribs was like Patrick Waugh or something like that? No, he wasn't. He's also a little guy. And he actually got hurt in not one of our— He sees us as disposable. Do you hear him?

He sees us as disposable, talented little guys that he can damage and then toss out. I mean, actually, I would not like Scott to substitute for him. I would like them to play together because I think they would enjoy it. The aesthetic quality of, you know, one skilled hockey player passing the puck to another skilled hockey player. Do you have like a notebook where you've written out all the cool line changes you're going to be able to do when you get all the guys onto your team that you want to be on your team?

Oh, yeah, of course. Guilty. We'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all of this when we come back in just a minute. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're Made In, Made In. The Rohan duck, Made In, and pans. Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs. They're made in, made in.

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from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound.

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Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. A mixture of biochemistry, addiction, and fear of death. It's not just a logo for a great heavy-duty mayonnaise, nor is it an accurate description of Steve's hockeyism,

but it's equally a description of your life, Scott, and indeed my life. Not Jesse's life yet. I don't know. Maybe. I hope not. Jesse, you're still a young man. But as you climb into your forties,

mortality looms and your biochemistry changes and your body weakens your fear of death grows and your addiction to those things that put off your fear of death also grows that could be hockey or if you're like scott and me that could be looking up Match Game 75 videos. The truth is that I don't think, Scott, that you're as happy as you say you are. I could be wrong. And baseline, I think you're pretty happy. But there is something that I don't like in what you're saying and in what you're doing. Okay, and here's what it is.

I'm old. You sent in one piece of evidence. It was a picture of your driver's license with all the identifying features, redacted, of course, address and so forth. Except for one critical measure, your age, 48, you circled it, you said, need I say more? As though this were overwhelming evidence as to why you shouldn't want to and simply shouldn't play hockey again. You also live the life of an old person. I kept asking, I kept saying to myself, that's why I kept asking, are you retired? Are you retired?

I know that you have a vital job facilitating communicativity and liaising and so on. But your day-to-day sounds like life at a retirement community. And the napping, while I am someone who, as a freelancer, routinely naps before lunch lunch the napping makes me worried the napping and showering feels like marking time before death i'm a freelancer i nap before lunch because that's my way of staying young vital and relevant that makes it feel like, yeah, I'm in college still. I can do what I want. Don't have to work until 1 p.m. But napping every day

and giving up the physical life. I like that you're doing these long walks. Are you walking or are you on a jazzy? But giving up all, all of the sports at age 42 or 43, because it's just that time in your life and then doing nothing. And then being concerned about injuries in a, in what seems to be a fairly friendly league,

and your over-determined defense that you are just accepting life as it is and can enjoy the solitude and the silence forever and ever, to me, it sounds like you're walking into the grave. And I know people who are my age and older who are walking into the grave, even though they are still young, vital people with stuff to do. They have a fascination with checking out of this life. Now, I'm not saying that that's how you go through life. I'm merely saying that's what it sounds like to me. And I just met you. Steve is over there in his hockey togs,

and it really sounds like to him, I betcha, my friend has given up. He's walking into the sepulcher. He's ready to be buried in the pyramids forever, the pyramids of hockey. I don't know if those are real pyramids. What Steve, I think, is trying to do is express fraternal concern, friendly fraternal concern for your well-being, to draw you back into this world, which

is the way he consoles himself. You're quite right, Scott, with the fact that he is dying. This last ditch, long-delayed, procrastinated grab at athleticism that has been perversely transformed jocism as he flushes his Pulitzer down the toilet and embraces hockey jocism as the new fountain of youth in his life. And he wants you to be a part of that because he feels you slipping away into this quiet world that he doesn't understand. Right? I think that's what's going on here. Right? I think that Steve wants to play hockey with his friend.

Right? And I would be inclined to order Scott to play hockey with his friend, except for the fact that Scott's right. that Scott's right. First of all, I think Scott is baseline pretty happy, though this court is warning you to be wary of walking into the grave. Do you understand what I'm talking about, Scott? Yes.

Right. You're not old. You can take injuries. You can live whatever life you want. And if this is the life you want, I want you to live it. But I don't want you to live whatever life you want. And if this is the life you want, I want you to live it, but I don't want you to live life feeling that hockey is not for you anymore because you might crack a rib.

You can handle it. You can be alive, right? But you also said something that was really right on. Even though you were incredibly snobby about jocks, there is a difference between athletes and jocks. I've long talked about the difference between nerds and jocks. I actually like jockism as a philosophy.

It's decisive. It's tribal. But it's fun to be a part of if you're part of the group. Jocks get things done. They win a game or build a thing. You know what I mean? Nerds are introverts and solitudinous, and maybe that's more of the way you are. It doesn't mean that one is worse than the other. The only problem I have with jockism, and it extends to sports, is the natural befuddlement jocks feel when you don't love them and you don't love the things they love.

Jockism is a with us or against us proposition where they really feel, jocks really feel strongly that if you don't like sports and specifically this sport, there's something wrong with you. You have to change. Not all people who play sports or love sports, even people who identify as jocks feel this way. But that's the part of sports culture that I don't like. As I've said before, and we'll say again, it's like, I don't care about sports all that much. Please stop making me feel terrible for not liking them. I don't go up to jocks and insist that they have to name their favorite of the now 12 doctors who. It may not be their cup of tea. Who cares? Steve right now is jockeying you like crazy. Steve is saying, I want Scott to play hockey so I can save him from himself.

I want my friend to be normal again. And Steve, that is an attitude by which this court will not abide. Steve, if you had said, without laughing at yourself, honestly and sincerely, I don't want to play hockey with my friend again, I would have ordered Scott to be out on that ice. But you blew it, Jock.

You had to couch it in the terms of, I'm going to save him from himself. I know him better than he knows himself. You don't. You don't. We're all confronting death in our own ways. We're all doing the best we can. You do better, Steve, to speak sincerely

and not try to bully your friend into playing sports. You left me no choice when you said those words. I can't make Scott play hockey. People like what they like. Although I urge you, Steve, to go out there and do a really good hockey job and have a great time and fix your logo so that it has some innovative use of negative space. Until then, I find in the favor of Scott, this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Scott, you came away with the W, not unlike the W in the Hartford Whalers logo. How are you feeling? I'm feeling very comfortable. I'm glad that the judge had the foresight to see that I was in the Hartford Whalers logo. How are you feeling? I'm feeling very comfortable. I'm glad that the judge had the foresight to see that I was in the right here. Feeling typically comfortable, would you say? Like he needs a nap. The middle way.

Steve, how are you feeling? The Puccalolos have lost many games under my reign, and we always get back up and show up again next week. So I'm not done with Scott yet. Got Mario Lemieux on speed dial? Oh, I wish. Well, guys, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you very much.

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We are so grateful to each and every single one of you. Or I guess I should say I'm so grateful. I don't know how John feels. I feel great about it. I'm incredibly grateful to all who donated, especially the Golden Eagles and the leaders who played some games with me on Twitter. So much fun to engage with you guys. Just as it always is fun to engage with you, the listeners and the callers and everyone else on the show. It's such a pleasure.

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