Judge John Hodgman - The Return of Juvenile Court

Episode Date: September 1, 2021

It's time to clear the docket and this week we are bringing back JUVENILE COURT! Disputes (mostly) from kids! Book care, door locks, pet hedgehogs, pet dogs, disc golf and more!TICKETS ARE ON SALE NOW for our Judge John Hodgman Live Streaming Event with the London Podcast Festival! It’s happening on Thursday 09/09/2021 at 12:30pm PT / 3:30pm ET / 8:30pm BST. For more info and tickets, visit bit.ly/JJHOUDGMAN or click here!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week to clear the docket as summer sunsets here in God's United States of America. With me, as always, Judge John Hodgman. God or whatever's United States of America. Yeah, fair enough. Hello, Jesse. Hello, Jennifer Marmer there in Los Angeles. Hello, Joel Mann across the glass from me here in WERU, the solar-powered studios of WERU Community Radio. I thought this would be our last session together, Joel. But no. But no. Due to some scheduling changes, two more. I'm very excited. And I'll tell you something, Joel and Jesse. You sound excited, Joel. He's off the throttle a little, buddy.

I know, right? You're peaking, peaking a little. Yeah. Joel, when I drove into the parking lot, I took a moment to inspect the grounds. One thing I noticed was your Kia is parked in a weird place. What's going on? It was a strange morning. What happened? Why is it over there?

I also noticed that the old sign, you know, you replaced the W-E-R-U sign recently. The old sign is just like lying in the weeds on the side of the building. Forgotten. Can I have it? I don't see why not. All right. I'm going to sell it. What else are you going to do?

I know. I'm going to take it over to the big chicken barn, sell it, put it on consignment. $1,000. There you go. I'll donate 20 to the station. Anyway, nice to be here again, weru.org. Nice to be here with you, Jesse and Jennifer. We have a special day today.

Juvenile Court returns to Judge John Hodgman. That means, John, that all of our cases this week are about toots and peepees. It's all poop and peepee jokes. We have a lot of young people listening to this podcast, and a lot of them have email addresses which they use with abandon. Now, normally on the podcast, we take cases that are between disputes, conflicts between adults. We are a family tolerant podcast. We are here for the adults of the world.

But every now and then we get together and we clear the docket of some of these greasy kid stuff cases. You're 10-year-olds, you're 13-year-olds, people who typically have disputes with their moms and dads and other caregivers. And also as part of the mix, Jesse, one of these disputes involves the greatest Frisbee golf hole-in-one of all time. Great. Thank goodness. You're going to be very excited. We've been doing this show for over a decade, and that whole time I've been like, oh, when are we going to get to that frisbee golf hole-in-one? You're going to be very excited.

And folks, if you hear something in my voice, it's ragweed season here in Maine. It's a little hard, a little hard on the vocal cords. Judge Hodgman, can you, before we get into these ones that children we don't know have written in, I have one that comes directly from my family. It's sort of actually, it's two disputes in one, really. Oh, I will allow it. My youngest child, Frankie, has been watching a lot of a television show called Gabby's Playhouse. This is a show where some magical cats chat with a young girl in her magical bedroom. Pretty good show. Not a bad show at all. So there's two disputes here. I'll just do mine

first. I'm mad at this child for being better at hosting TV shows than me. I hosted a TV show for a little bit. I'd love to get back into that line of business. And this 11-year-old is significantly better than me at it. It makes me want to tear what few hairs I have out of my head. Did you have a magical cat, though? That's true. It really helps. I just had Jordan and

Alonso Duralde. They're on the grid on IFC. I have to say, you're speaking of Jordan Morris, our mutual friend, your very old friend and the co-host of Jordan Jesse Go, the podcast which begat Judge John Hodgman. It would be really exciting, especially if you've ever

seen Jordan in person or via screens, it would be really exciting, especially if you've ever seen Jordan in person or via screens. It would be very exciting and not terribly surprising if he revealed that he was a cat all along. You know what I mean? Yeah. Jordan could be a magical cat. Absolutely. Jordan is a magical cat. He's got magical cat-like properties.

Absolutely. Jordan is a magical cat. He's got magical cat-like properties. And if he did a little pirouette and reverted back to his cat form, I don't think I could love him more, but I definitely would cuddle him in a different way on my lap. This is Frankie's beef with this show. All right. Let's get down to Frankie's dispute. I'm behind the wheel.

Frankie and my son Oscar are in the backseat of the car. That's a good way to do it. Don't let them drive. Frankie's four. Yeah. Yeah. I used to use the roof rack for that, but then I got a four-seater. Right. You used to sit on the roof and steer with ropes. Yeah. No. Get behind the wheel, Jesse. So there's sort of a quiet period as we head north on the 110 on our way to drop them off at their respective schools. And Frankie says, if Gabby is a kid, how can she make her whole own show?

Now, Oscar jumped in. Sure. And he said, well, she doesn't make the whole show by herself. Right. And Frankie says- A born executive producer of art. Frankie says- She's just talent. Well, where is the other peoples?

And then Frankie goes, oh, she has those cats. And then Oscar says, no, there's adults that work on, there's grownups that work on the show. She's an actor. And Frankie says, no, it's Gabby's room. She doesn't even have any siblings to help her. Yeah. So, so what's the, we each have a dispute.

The dispute is where does she get off? Make her whole own TV show without any help, which she doesn't even have any siblings. Does Frankie want a TV show? Does Oscar want to EP it? Does he want to, does Oscar going to be already to to Frankie's Larry Sanders? I'm working so hard to divert all of my children away from show business and towards electrician. Just please, please

become electricians. We always need electricians that get paid pretty well. You don't have to go to college. You just have to go through some electrician training. I mean, not just. It's tough training. My stepmother was in electrician training when I was in high school. It's tough training, but you don't have to pay $50,000 a year for it. The trades are noble work. Electrician, plumbing, HVAC, work. Electrician, plumbing, HVAC, playing bass in a jazz trio in Castine, Maine. Right, Joel? That's right. What's on the playlist for tonight? Miles Davis, Stevie Wonder.

Got it all thought out. Yep. Just those two, that's all. All night. All right, very good. Just back and forth. Bitches brew into Isn't She Lovely. You know what? I think the folks on the porch of the Pentagoid Inn would like that.

I am going to order Frankie to start their own show. Sorry, Jesse. That way Frankie will learn how you make whole show or not make whole show, with or without help. And Jordan will be the magical cat. You know what? Frankie's older sister has had numerous shows and a number of films, including some beloved franchises,

including Clownies. So Frankie really already has a hero. There's already an Ed Wood figure in Frankie's life. Yeah. Frankie interviews the magical cat named Jordan Morris. A one-episode spectacular. I think that could work. You know, Jordan brings some of that Good Mythical Morning audience from Cotton Candy Randy, his signature Good Mythical Morning character, and then brings over that Jordan Jesse Goh audience. Both of them come. And yeah, and we get rich off our kid.

No. I think that's a good idea. It's who cares about the audience? This is a podcast. This is a podcast. That's a good point. I've certainly never evinced any concern about the audience on Jordan, Jesse, go. Let's get into the docket. Here's a case from Emily, a 10-year-old in Rocky River, Ohio.

She says, I bring a case against my sister, Louisa, and my mom. I have two Nancy Drew books that are 91 years old. The Secret of the Old Clock and The Mystery at Lilac Inn. My problem is that my sister is borrowing one of them and it regularly ends up on the floor. Another time she threw it on the ground. I picked it up and put it in her bookcase. I told her she can't throw a 91-year-old book on the ground. She just looked at me and said, whatever, I don't care. So I took the book back and I put it in my bookshelf. Louisa went to our mom and our mom told me that I had to give the book back to Louisa. This is not the first time this has happened. I would like you to order Louisa to stop misusing my books and to order my mom to allow me to take back my books if Louisa misuses them.

Secret of the old clock. Nancy Drew mystery number one. I read that book recently, John. Did you really? I've never read it. Yeah. I read it to my oldest child maybe a year or so ago. And I was kind of surprised. It holds up.

I read so many Tom Swift, Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew books between the ages of like six and eight, I would go to Aardvark Books on Church Street in San Francisco and just sit in the bookstore, used bookstore, sit in the bookstore in the children's section and read an entire Nancy Drew book. Wow. I have no experience with Nancy Drew. So your insight here is invaluable to me. I never read a Nancy Drew. I never read a Hardy Boy. I never read a Bobsy Twin. I would strictly choose your own adventure. Codename Jonah, because that one opened at Boston Logan Airport. Nancy Drew is not high literature. No. You know, there's not a ton of characterization in the books, for example.

They really skimp on that. But I was really surprised that even as an adult, I found it entirely pleasant to read. Emily, you say that these books are 91 years old, and that would make them first editions. Emily, you say that these books are 91 years old, and that would make them first editions. Because both The Secret of the Old Clock and The Mystery at Lilac Inn, which was the fourth in the series, were published in 1930. So if you have first editions of these, holy begonias. But let me tell you this, Emily, if you do have the 91-year-old edition, and you very well may, yeah, get that thing off the ground. Emily's sister, that's terrible. But let's say it's an edition that came out last year. Still, get that thing off the ground, Emily's sister. What are you doing, Louisa? That's her name, Jesse. Emily's

sister's name is Louisa, and I want that to ring out loud and far. Because books are your friends, even your sister's books are your friends. I know your sister is your enemy, but the book of your sister is your friend. It's a motto. Art of war. Confucius. Yeah, he wrote that in cuny form in the Bible. Books are your friends. And in particular, I mean, I get it. I don't know how old Louisa is in this scenario. I know Emily's 10. I kind of like to believe that Louisa is 35, living at home.

She's a half-sister. Yeah, stealing Nancy Drews from Emily, throwing them on the ground. What do I care? But probably Louise is sort of closer to Emily's age. I have a job, Emily. I work at Shakey's. Yeah, Shakey's.

She makes her own money. She buys a bunch of Bobsy Twins and throws them down a pit. That's what she does with her money. Emily, I'm not going to reveal to you or our listeners, in case you haven't gotten there yet, the secret behind the apparition at the end of the 1961 edition of The Mystery at Lilac Inn, but I will reveal the villain of your mystery, your mom, Emily's mom. Don't let Louisa get away with abusing books. Emily's books, school books, anybody's books. Look, maybe it was a rough day. Maybe it was harried. It was a harried afternoon. Maybe you have a ragweed allergy and you couldn't talk right. I can get why you might just say like,

oh, just give Louisa the book back. But I want you to go back to Emily and say, hey, I'm sorry about that. It's your book. You deserve to both have your books and your person respected by your sister. And in the meantime, get those books appraised because maybe they're worth some money. I don't know. Take them on the Antiques Roadshow. I don't know. Take him on the Antiques Roadshow. Parents of the world. Caregivers of the world and parents of the world. Look, I want to move forward to a property-less society as much as anybody.

But we have things that we care about. You do. Your children do. They value them, whether they're 91 years old or three days old. And I know it's annoying when a kid gets hung up on, they took my thing, or they broke my toy, or whatever. And you've got ragweed in your horse, and you just want to finish noting this animatic on a secret project that you're making with David Reese. I get it. But you've got to take these emotions seriously. And also, this could be some 91-year-old Nancy Drew type stuff in here. It could be good to get Ken Gloss from the Antiques Roadshow in, take a look at it. Let him point at it with a little wand. That's a guy from Massachusetts with the ponytail?

Yeah, or that guy, a ponytail guy. Get some Antiques Roadshow person in to point at it with their magic wand. Figure out whether it's the orig or the non-orig. It's good to know where we stand on this, John. You're a Ken Gloss guy. I'm a Ken Sanders guy. We each have our own favorite book appraiser on the Antiques Roadshow. Here's a case from Aaron, a 13-year-old from parts unknown. It's possible Aaron is a sea monster. Hard to say for sure. We'll find out from this case. Could be a Luca type situation. I want a lock on the door to the bedroom I share with my older brother.

My father hasn't allowed it yet. My brother and I have four younger siblings, ages 10, 8, 6, and 4. They like to explore our room and break our things or lose them or just leave them all over for us to pick up. A while ago, my dad got us the type of lock that you push in on one side and on the other, you poke a little stick in to unlock it. The kind that's in the center of the knob. You know what I'm talking about, John? Yeah, the standard privacy lock on an internal house door.

But he didn't get it for us. He got it for every knob in the house. This lock does not stop our younger siblings in any way. They just use a bent hanger or some wire or one of the many Q-tips they get to unlock the door. This is secondary beef. They get an unfair share of the Q-tips in the household. Are they being given these Q-tips or are they going out and getting them? That's what I don't know. One of the many Q-tips they get. Using their many Q-tip hustles. I think having a better lock with a key would be reasonable. My parents would not have to pay for it.

We already have an indoor key lock, which our parents have considered moving off its current door. My brother and I already have a key for this lock, and so do our parents. I eagerly look forward to any response you might decide to give. Aaron did eagerly look forward to any response I decided to give, such that when I did not respond for a couple of days because I was working through my email, he wrote me again saying, meanwhile, there's another dispute and he sends this one in as well.

I'm going to give him a twofer on this one. What's the other dispute? Great. If someone turns on music and then turns the sound all the way down to zero, is there still music playing? My brother says no because you can't hear it. I think even if you can't hear it, there's still music.

Please order my brother to admit there is still music playing when you can't hear it and to say to me, I was wrong. I am sorry. You were right. Please allow me to still be part of your life because it will be funny. Wow. All right. This is a much heavier debate.

be funny. Wow. All right. This is a much heavier debate. I'm presuming that this brother who's positing that if a tree falls in the woods at zero, no one hears it. And this came up after the two brothers had spent like 72 sleepless hours together in their room defending themselves and their stuff from their weird siblings and their many Q-tips. So first of all, Jesse, you're an audio professional. That's true. Do you want to weigh in on whether or not music is playing when you have turned the knob down to zero? Well, first I want to say that I'm also available for film and TV jobs. Sure.

But beyond that, it's an interesting question. First of all, you have to consider what the medium is, because if you're listening to an LP, a vinyl record, there is sound being generated even when the stereo is turned down to zero, because there is a physical process generating sound when the needle hits the record. You can hear if you stick your ear close to it and it's in its quiet room. I presume that's not the case here. I don't think it's an LP because I think probably their younger siblings came in and smashed them all up already. Right. Let's presume it's 3 a.m. in the morning and these two guys are listening to the one disc

man that their parents got for all six children. The next level, as far as I'm concerned, is a different form of analog media, like magnetic tape. In that case, there is this electrical signal being sent from that cassette deck to the amplifier. And it's not being amplified, but it's there, right? I remember when I had a Walkman, a tape player, that even when you turn that thing down to zero, I could still hear a little bit of tinny Billy Bragg singing, even at zero.

There was still something happening in that box. singing, even at zero. There was still something happening in that box. A worker's revolution was still being fomented through the medium of acoustic guitar music. What is that sound? Where is it coming from? It's all around. What are you running from?

Something you don't understand? Something you cannot command? That's how I know she's got a new spell. Wow, I can't believe I remembered that. Is that going to cure my ragweed? It's the best feat of memory that I've had in a year. There are digital media that are sending a similar signal. So if you had a component CD player, it's sending a signal to that amplifier similarly. But if you have a truly digital all around system, if you have a phone that's playing

a streaming service or you have an MP3 playing on a computer, that all exists within the world of software. And if you turn it to zero, it's not like it, I don't think it lowers that signal down to imperceptibility. It just doesn't send any signal at all because it lives in software. Now, I don't know what you said because I had you on mute for the past 30 seconds on the Zoom. Sure. Were you making sound then? Well, it's impossible to know.

I'm alone in this gosh darn forest. All right, here's what I'm going to say to you, Aaron, and your brother. A, you can get a lock for your room. I think that's reasonable. You've already suffered damages. It's obvious to your mom and dad. As long as your mom and dad have keys, I think it is absolutely reasonable for you to have a lock for your room. For safety reasons, I don't think it's a good idea that only you and your older brother have a key.

But here's the thing. Let me be a real dad about this and go, well, you can get a lock for your room if you learn how to install it. I know you want to install it yourself, Aaron, anyway. Go ahead. Go grab that key lock off that other door. Put it on your door. in any way, go ahead. Go grab that key lock off that other door. Put it on your door. I would suggest, though, if you guys want to pull your money and save your allowance,

save up for a biometric lock. Right, Jesse? A little thumbprint. Yeah, my voice is my password. Verify me. Steven Tobolowsky may be involved in a secret project by me and David Reese from the movie Sneakers. Now, a biometric lock would be really cool, you know, where you have a little thumbprint or a voice code or whatever, eye print. But, you know, but then I'm not even sure that's foolproof because maybe one of your younger siblings will just like gouge out your dad's eyeball with a Q-tip and get in that way.

Yeah, create a photorealistic rubber mask of you while you're sleeping. Yeah, exactly. Get a lock. You deserve it. As far as this other thing is going, I don't know what kind of tech you're talking about. Digital. I mean, if you're turning a knob down to zero, that does suggest an analog device. And to me, that suggests that the two of you are huddled in your blanket fort with a ham

radio desperately calling for help as your little sibling village of the damned kids scratch at the door with bits of wire. But as I recently explained to my own teen human child, if a tree falls in a forest, there's always someone to hear it, bugs and stuff and birds. The real proof that it's happening even when you're not listening is that when I pull into the parking lot of WERU and I turn off the car before I pause the podcast I'm listening to, then I lose my place in the podcast because Weiger and Mike Mitchell are still talking to each other and I can't hear it. The beat goes on. The beat goes on. We're going to take a quick break to hear from this week's partner. We'll be back with more cases to clear from the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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Rules and restrictions apply. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We're clearing the docket and we have a case from Kennedy in Ohio. Dear Judge Hodgman, my name is Kennedy. I'm nine years old. I really want to get a dog. I've offered to take care of the dog, to take it for walks, feed it whenever I am home. I also would take any dog, whatever size or

type. When I was in second or third grade, my parents would say that I would get a dog in fourth grade. Now I'm going into fifth grade and still no dog. I would like to focus my complaint on my dad.

Sure. Fair. Kennedy rules. I would like to focus my complaint on my dad. Every time I ask him for a dog, he always says something like maybe or we'll talk about it. Yet we never talk about it. I would like you to rule that he at least give me a straight answer. Jesse Thorne, how old is your oldest child? Because I don't remember what a nine-year-old is like. She just recently turned 10, so she's right in this neighborhood. And how often does she walk your dogs?

Never, never has, not even one time. What other kind of care do dogs need? Grooming? Yeah. They need their glands expressed. How often has your daughter expressed Coco's glands? Weirdly, too often. And if you're a child and you're... No, she's never. My children have never done so much as a moment's work taking care of my dogs. My seven-year-old son, Oscar, has a great relationship with especially our dog, Sissy. But for the most part, my children consider

my dogs to be sort of self-sustaining parts of the building. Did you say parts of the building or farts of the building? Well, both. Told you we'd get some fart jokes in here, kids. Yeah. Your children, Jesse, they're not bad kids. They're not lazy kids, right? No, they're wonderful.

Love them very much. Do you think that a highly motivated, highly motivated nine-year-old who lobbies for a dog on the premise, never mind the premise, on the promise that they can take care of the dog themselves, do you think that it's realistic that they could follow through on that promise? Not even a little bit. Not even the tiniest morsel of a little tiny eensy weensy bit. I would be very impressed, extremely impressed, if a nine-year-old did one thing of the many things that you need to do to take care of a dog at the prompting of the nine-year-old's parents. Like if the parents said you need to refill the water bowl today and the nine-year-old did that, I would consider that to be an absolute championship level of dog responsibility for a kid that age. And Kennedy, that could be you. You know,

that could be you. You could be that nine-year-old who remembers to refill the water bowl, who takes pride in filling up that kibble bowl, who will wake up early in the morning to walk that dog in the morning, and then again at night, or however many times that dog needs to walk, to live for that dog's health and welfare and safety, you may be that kid. You may be a natural gland expressor. And Kennedy, if you don't know what that means, Google it in terms of pet care, and maybe you'll no longer want a dog. Because the thing is, while I am openly and publicly and most recently in the New York Times Magazine, the magazine of the paper of record, I do not love people calling themselves pet parents for reasons you can read about in the

New York Times Magazine. Just go over there, check it out, Google it. I don't love it. It's fine if you want to call yourself a cat mom or a dog dad or whatever it is. It'll always make me cringe a little bit because your job as a parent is not to teach a dog to sit and stay. Your job as a parent is not to teach a dog to sit and stay. Your job as a parent is to teach a child to develop an emotionally mature inner life and go away. It's a different job. But I will say there's a lot in common between being a parent and being a pet owner. You have to give up a lot of your time and your emotional labor and your mental labor to keeping a thing alive. And I know it sounds like so much fun and dogs are, but it's a lot of hassle. I'm going to give you the straight answer. Your dad will not. He will not get you a dog. He is kicking the can down the road

because he already has a nine-year-old. He doesn't want another thing to take care of right now. He loves you, Kennedy, but it's work to take care of a thing that needs taking care of. Now, I know that your offer is made in good faith, but you're, when I say that you're a child, I'm saying this as not as condescension, but as envy. You are a child. Enjoy. Enjoy not taking care of a perpetual infant like a dog. I mean, how you say that you promise to feed it whenever you are home.

But child, when are you home? You have school. You have school. You have after school, maybe extracurriculars, maybe D&D club. Kennedy, what about your trips to Paris and Milan? Kennedy, you have the Miller's Port Sweet Corn Festival starting today, September 1st over there in Ohio. Plus, Kennedy, Lost Lands Festival

in Legend Valley, Ohio is starting later. Do you know what Lost Lands is, Jesse? No, what's that? It's probably the biggest electronic dance music festival with a dinosaur theme in Ohio. Yeah. It's a big rave with giant dinosaurs. Yeah, I mean, I'm already on an internet retailer buying one of those inflatable T-Rex suits. I'm not sure those are allowed because you might be confused for a real dinosaur.

The point is, Kennedy, you're busy. You're young. You're in Ohio. Ohio has winters. You're not going to want to get up on a winter morning to walk that dog. It's not your fault. It's not your fault.

The thing is, the real villain here, your mom and dad. And you know what? I'll go ahead and put the focus on your dad. They should never, ever have promised you a dog by fourth grade when they don't want a dog right now, obviously. Because if they did want a dog, they'd have one because they will be taking care of that dog. It's a big job. You can't do it on your own. So you were unfairly treated in this case, Kennedy. And as damages, I order your dad to stop saying maybe and agree to foster a dog. Your family has to foster a rescue dog.

And there are organizations that will do this in your area, I promise. This is you taking care of a dog that is awaiting a permanent home. And then you, Kennedy, your mom and dad, you can see what it's like. I'll tell you, Kennedy, if you can feed and walk and water that dog, that foster dog, that old time, I will be the first to apologize to you in Ohio. Or whenever we run into each other at the Lost Lands Festival. Maybe you will love that dog enough to not even want to go to Lost Lands. Because Jesse, I don't think that dogs are allowed at Lost Lands Festival. That's why you get them in an inflatable T-Rex suit. I wrote to the Lost Lands Festival to see if I could bring a dog with me on my campsite, going to see the heavy headbanging bass music

they haven't written back yet. I do know one thing that's for sure. I said, it's not a service dog. It's just my regular pet dog, Eggo. I'll let you know what they say. But I do know for sure from their website, you can't touch the dinosaurs. Not allowed. Don't touch the dinosaurs. Here's something from Cecily, an 11-year-old in Waterloo, Ontario. Mm-hmm. Dear Judge John Hodgman, I really want a hedgehog. Oh, boy. This isn't just a fading thought.

I have had this idea for half a year. Yeah. Hedgehogs are great companions. I express my love for hedgehogs with lots of drawings and characters in my animations. My parents think I will neglect the hedgehog and force my mom to take care of it. I have proven I can take care of a pet. I have two dogs that I feed, walk, and let sleep in my room. I give them lots of attention. Please order my parents to allow me to buy a hedgehog with my own hard-earned money that I have saved from my allowance, which I earned for being a reliable, responsible homo sapien. So Jesse, Cecily provided some evidence that we will share on the Judge John Hodgman show page and our Instagram page, which is Judge John Hodgman on Instagram.

Specifically, photos of her two dogs, Adele and Farmer, dressed up as a monkey and a bear respectively. I will share those with you now, Jesse, if you scroll down. The first here is the dog Adele dressed as a monkey. I'm enlarging it for you so you can see it. This is a white little fluff, a little white little fluffy fizz gig of a dog with a stuffed monkey enduring a stuff.

You say dressed as a monkey. I would say dressed as a monkey bearer. That's right. The dog is giving the monkey a piggyback ride. Yeah. And then here is Farmer, clearly dressed as a bear, like clearly in a bear costume. Hold on. Clearly dressed as an Ewok.

All right. Fair enough. I'd rather this go in a Return of the Jedi direction than a Midsommar direction. So yes, dressed as an Ewok. We'll put those up on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram. And Cecily also sent in a short animated movie that she made about her, quote, future pet hedgehog, end quote, which she wants to name Chicken. We'll post this on the show page as well. But suffice to say, it is a great animation. And Chicken is a great name for a hedgehog. So stipulated. Yeah. Chicken is a great name for a hedgehog. What are you thinking Yeah. Chicken is a great name for a hedgehog. What are you thinking

about this so far, Jesse, as a case? Wow. I like the chutzpah. I like the follow-through in the form of the animation and the pictures of the dogs in costumes. I like the bold claim that Cecily

is in charge of feeding and walking the two dogs. I don't believe it. I believe she has fed and walked the dogs. Don't get me wrong. I don't get you wrong. I don't think the buck stops with Cecily with re the dogs. In fact, Jesse, for that very reason, I reached out to Cecily's mom and asked her her thoughts on the situation. And she said, first of all, I agree that hedgehogs are adorable. My resolve often wavers when Cecily shares pictures of them wearing cute little top hats. However, a pet is not a toy. Tell that to the dogs that are dressed up as bears.

Two, Cecily is a great kid and a mostly responsible dog owner, mostly responsible Jesse. Cecily's mom writes, we started with one dog named Farmer, but Cecily felt that Farmer loved me the most. I explained that might be because I am the one who feeds and walks Farmer. Cecily swore she would be the primary caregiver of the next dog. So when Cecily was nine, we ended up with Adele.

I get it now. Farmer and Adele. Those are the next dog. So when Cecily was nine, we ended up with Adele. I get it now. Farmer and Adele. Those are the two dogs. Farmer and Adele. That's good. Good one. So Farmer, like working on a farm, and then Adele, like the singer. That's right. That's exactly what they were going for. That's good. In the end, I, Mom, was the one.

Because Adele, the singer, is like urbane. She's urbane. So it's a contrast. Yeah, it's like country mouse, city mouse. Would be great names for two dogs. In the end, I, mom, was the one standing outside in the rain potty training this new puppy. You hear that, Kennedy? Cecily was nine.

And mom says, what if I end up taking care of this hedgehog and it likes me more? And then Cecily demands we get another one. How many hedgehogs are they going to get? That's called a prickly slope situation. Prickly slope. You were about to make a joke, but I stopped you with my bad joke. No, I loved your joke. That's what we call a prickly slope.

It's called a prickly slope situation after the singer. Because she's urbane. Yeah. And a little prickly. Mm-hmm. She's got a lot of requests on her backstage rider. You know what I mean? She only wants, uh, what, Jesse? Brand name hummus. That's right. And Zagnut

bars. Zagnut bars and brand name hummus. Yeah. Regional candy. Regional candiesmus. Regional candy. Regional candies only. Peanut shoes. What about a Needham? You like a Needham, Joel? I don't know what that is. You don't know what a Needham is? No.

Regional candy of Maine famous? No. Chocolate candy? You know what the secret ingredient is in the middle? No. Joel, really? Really. Potatoes. It's chocolate covered mashed potatoes called a Needham. Yeah. You know why? We don't need them.

No. Cecily, I have to recuse myself. I am biased. I love hedgehogs. Chicken is a great name for a hedgehog. In elementary school, my nickname was Hedgehog. True story. I wanted a hedgehog as a pet. As an adult, I couldn't get one because an

evil man in New York City named Rudolph Giuliani banned exotic pets in New York City, including hedgehogs and ferrets. And even though Rudy Giuliani was a warped, weird monster, even then in the 90s, yelling at people who owned ferrets on the radio. He would do his weekly call-in show on WNYC, and people would call and say, I want to have a ferret. And he would say, you're weird. Rudy Giuliani would tell people with ferrets that they're weird. That's a real thing. I remember listening to that and thinking, wow, that's the mayor of New York.

Yeah. Yeah, we should have all seen it. When a weird shows you how weird he is, believe it. But even then. You don't have to see the weird dripping down his face. Even then in the 90s, I was a rule follower. I was not going to break the law to get a hedgehog. I really wanted one. I really want you to have one. But I have to recuse myself because I'm biased. I want you to have a hedgehog. have to recuse myself because I'm biased. I want you to have hedgehog. Instead, I'm going to hand this over to my old friend and roommate, Anna Henchman. I went to college with Anna. We shared a house with her little red door on a little tiny street in New Haven, Connecticut. She's one of my oldest and dearest friends. She now teaches, she's now a professor of English at a prestigious

university. And she is a former hedgehog owner, and she wrote me. And I remember this hedgehog. She had this hedgehog, Jesse. It was so much fun. I said, Anna, what do you remember about owning that hedgehog? Good for Cecily or not good for Cecily? And Anna wrote, when I was 29, my roommate and I got a hedgehog. The hedgehog was so cute and not that scared of us. We kept him in an aquarium with a water bottle and a metal wheel to run on. He would also wander around on the beautiful velvet sofa we had. I remember that sofa. So cool. Our cats ignored him. He seemed pretty content. But after a while, we noticed that his tiny paws were bloody. It turned out he had been obsessively running on

his metal wheel, so much that his feet got wounded, but he kept running through the pain. The little guy was clearly not happy. Ever since then, I've shuddered every time I think about having an animal in a cage. The happiest one I know is this glamorous guinea pig Geraldine, who lives on Martha's Vineyard and has an open-air cage so she can run on the ground and eat grass and cherries. Which is, that tracks for me, Jesse, because if you knew Anna, you would understand why when we were graduated from Yale University, she was voted most likely to know a glamorous guinea pig in Martha's Vineyard named Geraldine. It's very much an Anna Henchman thing. I mean, it tracks for me because that's what I always assumed was going down on Martha's Vineyard. That's why Obama had his 60th birthday party there.

That's why Larry David got uninvited, doesn't like cherries. Geraldine got to go, though. Geraldine, the glamorous guinea pig, went to Obama's birthday party. Our hedgehog, Anna continues, was sent off to live with a Harvard medievalist with children and green space in Concord, Massachusetts, where we imagined he fared better, but I never found out details. So I'm afraid my advice as someone who loves pets would be, Cecily, that if you want to make an animal happy, beware of the bloody-footed hedgehog who is just not that into being your pet. Cecily, Judge John Hodgman here.

I know that there are many great hedgehogs as pets. I know that I'm going to be getting letters from a lot of hedgehog owners. I love you all for taking care of those hedgehogs. I wish I could be among your number. That said, I think, Cecily, I must advise you, in honor of Anna's hedgehog's self-torment, I must advise you to just keep making chicken videos and keep dressing up the dogs you already have. A hedgehog may be in your future, but not now. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we finally get to disc golf disputes.

Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org.

If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. We have a case here from Tyler, an adult in Cedar Hills, Utah. And John, you've been texting me. We have a private line of communication between us as we record this program. I call it a back channel. Yeah.

We have a back channel. And you've just been texting me over and over. In fact, I'm like looking at my phone. It's three whole screens of just the word froth. Yep. Finally getting to the froth content. Getting you pumped the word froth. Yep. Finally getting to the froth content. I'm getting you pumped up for froth. Frisbee golf, technically known as disc golf.

The Disc Golf World Championships just ended a few months ago. This is what this case is about. I have a dispute with my 10-year-old daughter over fame. I have a dispute with my 10-year-old daughter over fame. I recently volunteered at the Disc Golf World Championship as a spotter at the last hole. Do you know what a spotter is, John? I have done my research. A spotter stands by the hole and the disc golfer throws the disc.

And if it lands inbounds, the spotter raises a green flag. And if it lands out of bounds, the spotter raises a green flag. And if it lands out of bounds, the spotter raises a red flag. And if the spotter's not sure, they raise both flags. We brought a lot of energy to our spotting to help give everyone a special experience, no matter their skill level. As a result, we were asked for autographs. We were mentioned on a disc golf podcast, and we were memorialized on a t-shirt. Please let me know if that's enough to be considered famous, even if it's only as the flag guy. My daughter says at least 200 publics, not neighbors and not family, it's a direct quote, need to know your name for you to be famous. So Jesse, Tyler sent in some evidence, including a couple of YouTube clips to show the level of energy that they were giving to all of the players. I'm going to share that with you now.

So Jesse, this is from the 2021 Disc Golf World Championships. The players don't matter in this case. I want you to watch for the activity of the spotters when the disc lands inbound. Now, knowing that you're out of bounds short, he can put this close and he can leapfrog you and get to 30 under par. And kind of out of nowhere, he was struggling a bit right there in the middle, that big four-stroke lead. And then a few holes later, all of a sudden, he's going to find himself one stroke out. He can make that putt. So there it is. Did you see the guy running with the flags yeah he ran through there with his flag

in the air like he was I mean honestly all I can think of is a friend of Judge John Hodgman Santa Eric they tend to run through the I think it's a big park in Minneapolis or St. Paul with a gigantic flag. Might be on a recumbent bicycle. Sorry, Santa Eric, that I'm

messing up my descriptions of your shtick. But yeah, it was a very spirited display of flag waving. I mean, it really bordered on rhythmic gymnastics. It was like a skill-less rhythmic gymnastics. Yeah. So, you know, vigorous flag waving. Does that make him famous, Jesse? He was on a YouTube video. Well, over a quarter million people had watched that YouTube video.

Right. Well, over a quarter million people had watched that YouTube video. But one wonders if it is fame when you're part of a group of overenthusiastic flag folk, when you are nameless, and when the gift that you have shared with the world is focus stealing. Hang on. Maybe you'll be swayed by this exciting moment in disc golf. This is the so-called shot heard around the world. James Conrad, best shot in disc golf history. With our man Tyler waving around that green flag to say not only is it inbounds, but it went in the hole. Jesse, can you see this? This is important. Best shot in disc golf history.

Are you see this? This is important. Best shot in disc golf history. Are you tracking this? So we're seeing a sort of long green concourse surrounded by big trees and a surprising number of spectators here to watch a man throw a frisbee at a bucket made of chains. very tense here on the green hear a pin drop get in get in. Oh, my God! Whoa, people are freaking out. Look at him go. No way! He's waving. Is that a lacrosse stick? No, that's the green flag. He's waving the green flag.

He's prancing. He's prancing up and down. It is. It's pandemonium on the pitch, John. Absolute pandemonium. I had never thought about caring about disc golf in my life. But when I saw James Conrad sink this shot and I saw Tyler and his fellow spotters. Oh, you can just hear the hear the excitement. Pause it now.

Oh, you can just hear the excitement. I'll pause it now. When I heard Tyler and his fellow spotters dancing and prancing with their flags and the entire audience rushing onto the field to congratulate James Conrad, I felt like I had just watched an incredible season closer of Ted Lasso. You know what I mean? A real heartwormer. This looks like the crowd is rushing onto the pitch. Grass. The pitch. Thank you.

It is like a Merkel's boner. It is a potential Merkel's boner situation. The pandemonium is so wild. I don't know what that means. Well, Fred Merkel of the New York Giants in 1908 famously was on first base when the batter drove what would be a game-winning hit into the outfield. The crowd poured onto the field, outfield. The crowd poured onto the field. Everyone celebrated. And Fred Merkel, the runner on first base, failed to touch second base. He was swept away by the crowd and the excitement and headed back into the dugout, thinking the game had been won. Meanwhile, the opposing team,

the Chicago Cubs, retrieved the ball or possibly a different ball. There's some controversy about whether they found the ball or a ball and brought it to second base for the force out, thus ending the game. Thus? Thus ending the game ignominiously in favor of the Chicago Cubs. So nothing to do with Angela Merkel at all? No, disappointingly. In this case, James Conrad's incredible, I don't know what you call it, hitting the chains with the Frisbee so it goes into the net or whatever, stood up and is indeed,

as Tyler points out, immortalized in a t-shirt, which we'll be posting a picture of, on the Judge John Hodgman show page and Instagram account, so that you can see this most majestic moment in disc golf history, immortalized in cartoon form. And you can even see a little teeny, teeny, teeny, teeny, tiny, teeny, tiny Tyler way up in the right-hand corner. I'm not going to show you this picture, Jesse. Suffice to say, Tyler, you're barely in there. You're a part of the crowd. And you know what? Your daughter's right. 200 publics, not

friends, not neighbors, not family, need to know your name to be famous. And your name isn't even on this one, Tyler. It's James Conrad's name. And Thorne did I listen to the Disc Golf podcast that Tyler sent me a link for? Yes. Do I encourage you to listen to it? Oh yes because somewhere between Best in Show and Ted Lasso and this podcast

is America's next top streaming sensation TV show there is a IP in here for sure is America's next top streaming sensation TV show. There is an IP in here for sure. A sitcom in the world of disc golf. But I listened to the end of that thing, Tyler. Wait.

I finally got to the picture. And I'm just the guy wearing the T-shirt. It's like if you took every idea I had of who plays Frolf, melted it down, boiled off all the water, and just got it into a beautiful concentrated Frolf reduction. It's this genial, big-eared, long-haired, bearded white guy. I love the world of Frolf. Joel, you like Frolf? No. Okay. You ever play it?

Nope. Okay. Want to give it a try this weekend? No. Okay. That's called a main friendship. In any case, yeah, I find this whole world to be so interesting and funny and lovable and definitely going to be the subject of a heart-tugging comedy in the future

on a streaming service near you. And Tyler, I'm thrilled that you are a part of it. And you are a part of history. And yeah, these podcast guys, they ended their show celebrating. Wait, John, did you say he's part of history? History, as we all know, is written by the Frawfurs. Sorry, Jesse, I'm not sure you heard me correctly. I said fart of history. Okay, thank you. No, part of, that was, look, I'm not making fun. Go check out the

video. We'll post a link to it. It's an amazing disc golf shot. The excitement is real and genuine and sincere. This community seems fun. You are a part of disc golf history. How that ties into the larger history remains to be written by the victors, I suppose. And you're in a little teeny tiny part of this T-shirt. And you're right. This podcast at the end of the podcast mentions how spirited the spotters were. And they mention a lot of them by name. None of them you. I don't want to take away from you the pleasure of being part of this world and being celebrated within this world.

part of this world and being celebrated within this world. And it's a little bit like, you know, when I first moved to New York and I went to a literary reading at a new bar called KGB above a theater in the East Village, and someone there took a picture of the room and that person published that picture in the New York Times, and that New York Times article went up on the wall of KGB, and 20 years later, I could still see baby John Hodgman in that photo, a mushy, I mean, I was mushy naturally, but especially out of focus in this case, because I was in the deep, deep, deep background of this minor, minor, minor part of literary life in New York City that I was so happy to be a part of. You should feel proud. Are you famous? No. Do you want to be? Does it matter? What is fame? Is it toxic? Is it a delight? Who cares? Too much to talk about now. But I can tell you this,

Tyler, you're not it until now. Because Flag guy, I guarantee you we have at least 200 listeners who now know your name. Tyler, the flag guy. Yeah, 200 publics. That's exactly the number of people who listen to Judge John Hodgman. 200 publics. I know you all by name pretty much. Thank you for listening. Enjoy worshiping your new god or whatever tyler he sits

up there in the pantheon of judge john hodgman gods or whatever just like joel the demi god of crankiness a little disc golf joel just don't toss the disc around a little bit all right yes All right. Yes. And Tyler, you're demigod of demi-fame. Truly the avatar of mid-tier froth fame. I think that's it. I think that's juvenile justice in the books. The docket's clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our producer, Jennifer Marmer.

Our editor, Valerie Moffitt. Our engineer in Maine, the great Joel Mann, program and operations manager at WERU Community Radio in Orland, Maine. You can listen to WERU at WERU.org and you can follow Joel on Instagram. His handle is TheMainMan. John, you mentioned that summer is extending just a little tiny bit. I think you're going to have one more episode that's going to be a clash of the community radio titans as you're joined by summertime fun time bailiff Monty Belmonte. That's right. Monty Belmonte in our pantheon of gods or whatever. He is the half man, half goat trickster god or whatever known as pun.

Pun, not pan. No. Oh whatever known as pun. Pun. Not pan. No. Oh. Yeah, pun. Fart. Sweet joke, John. You might call it pun dulce.

See, I can do it. I choose not to. I know. I chose to. Follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets. Hashtag JJHO.

Check out the Maximum Fund subreddit to discuss this episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFund.org slash JJHO. That's MaximumFund.org slash JJHO. or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.