Judge John Hodgman - The Right to a Speedy Denial

Episode Date: May 29, 2024

Would you hide a speeding ticket from your spouse? That's what Aram did! He eventually confessed. But he won't tell his wife, Liz, which of their friends colluded with him to keep it a secret. Liz brings Aram to court to find the truth! Who's right? Who's wrong?We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman.Thanks to reddit user u/REEGT for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne. This week, the right to a speedy denial. Liz brings the case against her husband, Aram. Aram enlisted a friend to help him hide a speeding ticket from Liz. He since confessed to receiving the ticket, but he refuses to tell Liz which of the couple's friends aided and abetted. Liz says it's cruel to keep this information hidden. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can

decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Oh, this thing is running great. It's just running great. It's so smooth into the curves. What did you do, Claudio? I adjust the caster and camber and correct the tire pressure. Oh, what a difference! Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. Liz and Aram, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God or whatever?

Yes, I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that we've been friends for 20 years and have never told the other one about anything in that entire time? Yes, I do. Yes.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. We keep our secrets. But today, I reveal reveal them because we're recording, it's a rare Friday afternoon recording. We don't do this normally. We record on a Monday, but here we are at the end of the week. Spring has sprung to the point of summer here in Brooklyn. It's the, it's a Friday evening where I am, evening of a long weekend.

And I'm gonna tell you right now, I'm wearing shorts under my robe and I am not wearing shoes or socks. Wow. And if you wanna go see my feet over on the YouTube, here they come. Feet on main. Wow.

Incredible. And my incredible calves, you get to see too. Judge Hodgman, ordinarily when we're calves, you get to see too. Judge Hodgman, ordinarily when we're recording, I'm not afraid to say it out loud. I only wear the top half of my uniform, but today our litigants are in our studio here in Los Angeles.

For that reason, our new shots here in the studio capture me head to toe. That's right. I'm wearing my bailiff pants and my bailiff shoes. I know and it's gonna get hot. I usually wear pants. I'm just not. Not just boxers?

Yeah, no, I don't just wear boxers. I would say it would be inappropriate, hostile workplace environment. Yes, we're very, very excited to have these litigants here in the studio or over there in studio with you at Maximum Fund headquarters in Los Angeles. Liz and Arm, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment

and one of your's favors can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom. Let's start with you, Liz. Taladega Nights. Taladega Nights. That's about fast cars, right? Mm-hmm.

Fast cars. That's a good guess. That's a really good guess. I'm even going to write it down. Talladega Nights. And I'm really writing it down. You can check it on the YouTube. It's written down. Yeah, he wrote it down, folks. Aram.

Too fast, too furious. That's also about fast cars. Why was I having... And I could have sung Tracy Chapman's fast car. Yep. I'm going to go ahead, Aram, and put you down for all of the fast cars. Why was I having and I could have, I could have sung Tracy Chapman's fast car. Yep. I'm going to go ahead, arm and put you down for all of the fast furious movies. Even Tokyo drift, even Tokyo drift. And Liz, your guests is superlative, but I'm also going to put down fast car by Tracy Chapman, all the things that I could have done, but all of them, these guesses are wrong.

I had a real hard time for some reason, because this is about a speeding ticket. So I initially thought, well, we got to do that same scene from Fargo with Steve Buscemi at the traffic stop when he says, why don't we take care of it right here in Brainerd? He tries to bribe the traffic cop, which was our very first obscure cultural reference. But I couldn't do that when I've already done it too many times. So then I freaked out and I couldn't think of anything. And then I thought of a song.

I thought of a song and I'm like, I don't wanna quote this song, cause it's too easy, certainly for someone my age. So I watched the video of the song. What I performed for you, impeccably I may add, was the dialogue between the musical artist whose song this is, and his personal mechanic, Claudio Zampoli, that is recorded as this musical artist

drives into the scene in his classic 1984 Ferrari 512 BB, and compliments Claudio for adjusting the tire pressure. And then he starts singing the song. And the song, if you haven't guessed, is I Can't Drive 55 by Sammy Hagar. And his personal mechanic, Claudio Zampoli, passed away just a few years ago in 2021 at the age of 82 or 83. And Claudio Zampoli is not only was not only Sammy Hagar's personal mechanic in the video, this was his real life personal mechanic. And in fact, I later learned through reading this obituary, Claudio Zampoli is the guy who gave Eddie Van Halen Sammy Hagar's telephone number. And got him into Van Halen.

Learn that from VanHalenInTheNews.com or something. Anyway, RIP, Claudio Zampoli, you really adjusted that tire pressure. I hope that your wheels are really taking those curves in the afterlife or whatever. But in the meantime, we're right here settling justice on earth. Who brings this case before me seeking justice?

Liz or Aram? I do. Liz, what is the nature of the justice you seek? What's the problem? What is Aram doing wrong? I'm just a very curious person, and I just don't know if I can live with this curiosity of not knowing who helped with this scheme. Let's take a step back in time to the scheme.

Aram, tell me about your speeding ticket. I got a speeding ticket in December and Liz is she sees all of the okay, I'm skipping some steps. I didn't want Liz to know about it. Right. For a few reasons. So I had a friend pay because she would see the you know credit card charge. I had him pay and then paid him via Venmo. And the idea was just to you know I

thought that would kind of be the end of it but then I wanted to do traffic school to you know not get the point. And so it became a bigger scheme than I intended it to be. But you had to tell her that you were doing it for the comedy. Yeah. So I didn't want to try to sneak around and, you know, do traffic school behind her back. That seemed like too much work. That seems like a bad comedy movie, I think. Secret traffic school. So that's when I decided to tell her about it. So let me just understand here. Can you drive 55

or can you not drive 55? Actually the ticket was for driving 55 So I guess I can drive you definitely can in a in a what mile per hour zone a 45 Yeah, okay ten miles over the over the limit. Yeah, where were you driving? I was driving on Wentworth in Sunland. What is that? What is that a neighborhood of Los Angeles, Jesse? What is Sunland? That's a northeastern suburb of Los Angeles. It is a weird town That is not very far from Los Angeles, but where you can have like a farm Yeah, where you're where you're like in Los Angeles It's like a 15-minute drive to Bur or whatever. And then also you could have,

as my friend Julia did when she lived in Sunland, she had multiple miniature horses. How many miniatures horses do you have Liz and Aram? One. Do you really? We have a Greyhound dog. That does count as a miniature horse, you're right. For betting purposes. We always call her a horse. All right.

So you're going 55 in a 45 mile per hour zone. Jesse, you recited the old adage, nine, you're fine, 10, you're mine. Meaning the rule of thumb is if you're under 10 miles an hour over the speed limit, you're probably not going to get in trubs. Yeah. If you're under 10 miles an hour over the speed limit, you're probably not gonna get in trubs. Yeah, that's from my days in the California Highway Patrol with Eric Estrada. I would just say that the Judge John Hodgman podcast endorses driving safely at all times

without any impairments, obviously, without any devices in your hand at the speed limit or following traffic so that you're not impeding traffic by going too slow but not going over 10 miles over the speed limit. You did it. You did it, RM, and you paid the price. But you didn't pay the price. Your friend paid the price because you wanted to keep it a secret from your wife, right?

You're married. Is that right? Married, married? Yes. Legally married in the state of California? Mm-hmm. Right. Yes. The last person in the world you're supposed to lie to, you lied to her through omission. Why? Oh, good question, Jesse. Why? Well... Your silence is now lying to me through a mission. I just thought that I would save her the stress.

I didn't think there was any need for her to know about it. You know, we worry about money sometimes and, you know, I got the ticket. There was nothing we could do about it. I just thought I'll save her the heartache. What was the penalty, if I may save her the heartache. What was the what was the penalty if I'm asked the financial fine? I think including traffic school. It was like $25,000. It was like 320.

Oh, that's a bit. So yeah, that's pretty solid. That's a bad bite. That explains why you have packing tape on your finger where there should be a band-aid Wait a minute arm you got a 300 plus dollar speeding ticket for doing 10 over in a 45 mile an hour zone Okay, so I didn't want to interrupt you earlier, but It was actually 60

Okay, but on my but when the cop gave me the ticket, he said, I'm going to write you a ticket for going 55. And when I looked at the ticket, I saw both numbers. I saw a 55 somewhere and a 60 somewhere. So I don't know if the amount I paid was for going 55 or 60 or if those are the same. So yeah, but I was driving 60. You were going too fast. That's too fast even for Sunland.

That's too fast for Sunland. Even up there in miniature horse and warehouse country. Yeah, even though there aren't a lot of people around, there are definitely a lot of miniature horses around. How would you have felt if you had taken that corner fast and hit a miniature horse? I would have felt really bad. Was it a speed trap situation?

Yeah. Yeah. Were you polite? I was very polite. Yeah, he was letting you off easy with 55 when you were doing 60 in a 45. 300, okay, that's a bite. 320, 340 bucks. Judge Hatchman, you gotta lay down a speed trap there in Sommeland.

People are racing to the Hughes Estate Sales Warehouse. -♪ LAUGHTER ‫-Sommeland. People are racing to the Hughes Estate Sales Warehouse. Sommeland, California. Liz, Aram said that he didn't wanna quote, stress you out, unquote. If he had come home and said, I got a speeding ticket and it costs, it's gonna cost us 340 bucks or whatever. Would you, how would you describe your feelings about that?

Stressed out or other? Probably a little stressed out. A little stressed out because of the money Yeah, I I definitely would have given him a hard time about it, too. That's probably part of the avoidance too but Yeah, a little bit because we're trying to save up for a house. So it's right every penny counts right now Yeah, it's an unnecessary expense. Yeah.

Aram, your theory was, well, if I pay this ticket, I'm gonna have to complain that I got the speeding ticket for $340, so instead I'll get a friend to pay it, and then I'll Venmo that friend, because a mysterious Venmo to a friend for $340 is gonna be less stressful? Well, she wouldn't know about the Venmo to a friend for $340 is gonna be less stressful? Well, she wouldn't know about the Venmo at all. Yeah, that was the goal.

What a villain you are, sir. We are. We are. This guy has a Venmo account just for sneaky stuff. You got a sneaky Venmo? I do, yeah. How does it make you feel, Liz, to know that Aram's got a sneaky Venmo? I do, yeah. How does it make you feel, Liz, to know that RM's got a sneaky Venmo?

I feel like to a degree, I'm okay with him having some privacy with his finances, you know? Okay. I'm the primary finance manager for us, so almost all of our money I see where it goes and I do the budgeting, so. Yeah, that's why he wanted to hide it from you.

It's kind of his last holdout for privacy. How do you fund your sneaky Venmo? How does that money get in there? I do like small side gig work and sometimes I'm paid via Venmo. Liz, what do you do all day? I'm an R&D scientist. Do research.

And development? And development, yes. And what areas of science? Human behavior focused on travel and how people move around. How would you describe Arem's human behavior with regard to travel? Typical. Except for the secrets. Well, I for the secrets.

Well, I should hope so. First of all, does he routinely speed in Sunland? Yeah, I would say. I mean, kind of everyone does though, that's why. It's not that abnormal to go 10, 15 over in that area. Sunland is the kind of sort of ex-urban place where it would be easy to go too fast on a street because you feel like you are on a freeway. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I understand. I know I've looked.

Do you want to know anything else about Sunland? Sure. That's all I got really. I did Hughes Estate Sales warehouse. I did. That's all I got on some land. Do I remember correctly that it's a neighborhood within the Crescenta Valley and the Verdugo Mountains? Yes. It's not within, but it's right next door.

Lies between the Verdugo Mountains and the San Gabriel Mountains, would you say? Mm-hmm. Is it contiguous on the east with La Crescenta Montros? Yes. Gotcha, right. And it says here that by 1927, half the streets had been paved and a state highway ran through town.

People have been driving fast in Sunland for a long time. Yeah. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org, and they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh

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Would you say that the lying took you by surprise, Liz? Yeah, yeah. I would say so. How did you find out about this speeding ticket? He came into my little office space one day and was like, I have a confession to make. Okay, go on, keep saying it. How did you wait?

How did you feel when you heard that first thing? I was not even that nervous. Seemed like it was not gonna be a big deal. When your husband comes in and says, I have a confession to make, I'm already terrified and I know what it is. I don't know. I guess like maybe it was his tone or something,

but it just didn't seem like it was gonna be something really serious. I think what I said was I need to tell you something. Yeah, I can't keep it from you anymore. Oh, just get it over with. Just tell me, don't, you're leaving me, right? You're leaving the podcast? Go on, get out of here.

We don't need you. Liz and Jesse and I will get along fine. For people who are listening at home and not watching the YouTube, an important piece of context here is that Aram's beard and eyes lend any sentence he utters just an extraordinary portent. Just at any moment, like he could come in and say, happy birthday to you. And it would sound like, I fear this storm may destroy the village. Yeah. I had to enlarge the screen

to get a really good look at Aram here. And he's got, guy's got some Rasputin look to him. He's got a little bit of a Rasputin beard. Hey, take a look at those sparkling peepers too. I know. Yeah. Glittering eyes, I dare say.

Liz, you look great too. Thank you. So how long was it before you finally confessed to Liz? It was the day before I had to do traffic school. So about three weeks ago. Yeah, but so you got the speeding ticket? In December. In December. And so you got the speeding ticket. In December. In December.

And so you kept the secret for months. Five months, yeah. Is what you're saying. And so let's take me back to the night of the speeding. You got this ticket, you make a decision. You gotta get a friend of yours to pay the ticket so that Liz doesn't see it. Who do you call?

A friend. Right, what's the name of the guy? I can't say, that's why we're here. Ah. Ah. Jesse Thorne, let the record show I tried to trick him. Yeah. I tried to trick him.

The record so reflects. I feel like maybe I almost got, I don't think I got very close though. Arm keeps his own counsel. No, there was a moment where he looked around like, this storm may be unpredictable. This friend, did they agree immediately? Yes.

This friend was immediately like, oh yeah, no, I'll pay that ticket. You just Venmo me back out of your secret Venmo? Liz, do you have any idea who this friend might be? I have theories. How many candidates do you have any idea who this friend might be? I have theories. How many candidates do you have in mind? I've narrowed it down to like two or three people. Two or three potentials.

Yeah. Yeah. And why is it important for you to know the name of this friend? I feel as his wife that I come first over the privacy of a friend, especially because I'm a cool person, and I don't think it's gonna affect my view of said friend. Let the record show that Liz has claimed to be a cool person, and the court agrees.

I'm just gonna enter that into the record now. Liz is cool. Bang a gavel on that. Arm,, you're pretty cool too. Well, I don't know. Secrets aren't cool. So the gavel remains suspended above the clapper. Maybe for the rest of this recording, I have to put it down. But when I put this down, I'm not gaveling on your coolness, Aram. Okay? It's still tentative. That wasn't a gavel. That was just me putting the thing down. Aram, why won't you reveal it? Has the person asked you not to reveal their name to Liz?

No, but I feel if I were that person, I wouldn't want my name revealed. Why? Because I took part in this, you know, secret and lie. Right, but you're coming clean. Yeah, yes. Overall. Yeah, as you would put it, there shall be a cleansing. I mean, it seems to me that if I were in your shoes

and I had lied to my wife through omission and I had engaged a friend in the scheme. And the friend is a good enough friend to say like, yeah, sure, I'll pay that ticket, just pay me back. I would seem that I could go to that friend and go, hey, you know what, I felt bad about this and I finally told Liz about it. And she wants to know who paid it. Do you mind if I give her your name?

Have you discussed it with the friend? No, I haven't. Okay. And I haven't. Okay. And I wouldn't have a problem having that discussion and then telling her, potentially. I mean, if I had my way entirely, that wouldn't even happen. Because I just don't want this to get between them.

Do you think that Liz's opinion of this friend would change if Liz learned the identity of the friend? I think it wouldn't in any meaningful or important ways, but I think it would be impossible for it to not in some way. What are you concerned is going to happen? I'm not really that concerned about anything happening. Then just give me the name. You're obviously concerned that something is going to happen. What? Until I ask them, I don't think it's fair to them. I think I've already done enough damage. I don't see why I need to add to it and also, you know, break their trust. I mean, John, imagine this.

Imagine a situation where I'm robbing a bank. All right. I'm thinking I'm planning. Hang on. Hang on. I'm imagining it. First, I have to imagine your outfit. Okay. Oh, man, I'm planning, I'm planning. Hang on, hang on, I'm imagining it. First I have to imagine your outfit. Okay, great. Oh man, I'd have a great outfit.

I know. I have just a turtleneck. I know, I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking the same thing. I'm planning on robbing a bank, but as part of my scheme, I need a little bit of help from a celebrity brand spokesperson.

So I ask you for help. Okay. You say, I don't know, Jesse, but I'll do it. We're friends. Do I have to like go to the bank robbery? And I say, no, no, no, I just need you to do a little spokespersoning on the side and then I'll take care of the rest.

And then I go and I rob that bank successfully. Good job. Everything is great. Our friendship is reinforced. I got to rob that small town bank I wanted to rob. You're a charming bank robber like George Clooney and out of sight. Exactly.

You just charm it out of him. I got to get in that trunk with J. Lo. Yeah. The whole nine yards. And then I have a crisis of conscience. I think, oh gosh, I feel terrible for that small town banker I robbed. He's gonna have to pay back the FDIC

out of his own pocket, I think, to myself. Yeah, turns out there's no such thing as a gentleman bandit. That's just a bad person. Yep. So I say, I'm gonna go cop to it. I'm going to I'm going to turn myself into the cops. And they say, Oh, thank you. But you probably needed a celebrity spokesperson to pull off a heist like this. And I say, Yeah, it was John Hodgman was my

friend, John. How would you feel then? Yeah, well, I mean, I would feel. A little frustrated because you had implicated me as an accomplice in an actual crime. Yeah, there might be severe penalties visited upon me as a result. But this is not that situation. Arm did not rob a bank. He quietly embezzled money from his marriage and laundered it through a friend to pay to the state. But money that might have otherwise

gone to a shared purchase or into the house savings to pay for something that he felt, I'm presuming, he felt ashamed of. Although it's hard for me to understand, because Aram isn't very forthcoming with his feelings about this. Did you feel ashamed? Is that why you wanted to hide this from Liz? Yeah, a little bit. She does give me a very hard time about the way I drive,

and I felt, you know, this was more fuel for her. Mm-hmm. So that was definitely part of it. Do you give him a hard time? I thought you were cool, Liz, by the way. But you're not cool with the way Aram drives all the time, is that right? I would say that's correct.

I don't even want to know the details. But you feel that Aram drives a little too fast? Yeah, sometimes. Who drives when the two of you are in the car? He does. Is it his car? It's our shared car. What is the car?

It's a Honda Fit. Oh. You're telling me that a Honda Fit can go 60? R.M. drives a little too fast, a little not to your liking, right Liz? Yes. What other mistakes does he make when he's driving? What else is wrong with his driving?

Sometimes a little, you know, aggressive. He's an LA boy, born and raised. You know, he drives like an LA boy. So let's go back to that day in December where you got that ticket. You got the ticket, when did you decide to call or contact your friend? Yeah, I got the ticket and I entirely forgot about it

for a few months. And then I think around in March. They took your car away. That's when I had to pay. So yeah, a few months later is when I got my friend involved. And so you saw that the due date was coming up and you called your friend. Do you call or text? I text.

And what's their name? What was the name you texted? You said, hey friend named. All right. Well, I tried. And what happened after that? They immediately said yes. Yeah. I sent them the link to the website where you pay.

They paid. And I Venmo'd them the same day. Now by their paying, they did not implicate themselves. It's not going to affect their insurance or anything. It's just money. Just money changing hands. Why do you think you forgot about the ticket after you received it? Why did you forget about it? That's just kind of normal for me. I probably, I think I set an alarm in my phone to remind me, you know, a few days before it was due, so that I could just forget about it.

Was there anything else going on in your life in December that may have distracted you? Yeah, I think it was a few days before our honeymoon That I got the ticket Uh-huh. I was shocked when I Looked back to see when I got the ticket because I do not remember having this on my mind at all During the honeymoon. I really did forget about it Then other crimes do you think? to forget about it. What other crimes do you think you might have committed and forgotten about?

Well, there's that string of missing horses, the miniature horses up there in someone who knows what happened to them. Do you think you maybe unconsciously filed it away? Yeah. Because you didn't wanna talk about it on the honeymoon that you just got a $340 ticket. Yeah, I didn't wanna think about it.

I knew I had a lot of time to deal with it I definitely didn't you know come up with this plan as Soon as I got the ticket that came later. No you simply hid it from I mean, where did you literally hide the ticket? In a in a drawer in a drawer. Yeah, telltale heart style hidden in plain sight You got to check those drawers, Liz, from now on. I mean, doesn't it feel that way, Liz? I mean, it's a betrayal of trust, isn't it? Is Aram known for his lying to you by omission or otherwise? No, that, yeah, it definitely surprised me. I haven't, I'm not aware of any lies or secrets besides this one. I think part of the suspicion is because I've seen all of his friends that would be, you know, potential candidates since this happened and any discomfort that I might have sensed

in that, you know? You're watching them. You're talking to them. You're watching their eyes. You're wondering, is this the one? Is this the one? And you're a professional behaviorist. You know what to look for. You took a class in that in college.

Have you ever confronted any of your suspects? No, no, no. Directly or indirectly? Well, I haven't seen any of them since learning about this. But I saw them maybe a few days before learning about it. And so then I'm thinking about that day with a little bit of different perspective.

I'd like to just add something. I knew going into this whole thing that if she ever did find out about this, that it wouldn't be a big deal. I knew that she would find it funny, and, you know, I wouldn't hide something that I knew would actually be a big deal if she found out about it. And yet, here we are.

She is taking you to fake court about it. And I don't think, Liz, if I'm, I don't want to speak for you, but I'm guessing that it's not, as they say, it's not, it's not the crime. It's the coverup. Yeah. It's not merely that Aram did it, you know, did a dumb thing, got a ticket, unfortunate, no one got hurt, sucks to have to pay it.

But also that Aram en listed someone to keep it from you and continues to refuse to tell you who that person was. Right? That's the problem? Yes. How does it make you feel that he won't reveal the name of the person? A little frustrated. It just makes me even more curious, too.

You had mentioned that you feel that you should come first. Yes. Tell me what you mean. I guess this discomfort of my curiosity, since it's not a big deal, you know, I don't feel like I should have to tolerate this feeling for the rest of my life of never knowing who it was. Like I wanna have the image in my mind of the...

It feels like it would make it funnier, too, to imagine them scheming. Does it surprise you that Aram doesn't want to tell you the name of the friend? Is he a protective person who has a code of honor that way, or...? You know, yeah, I guess he does have a code of honor, so it's not that surprising when you put it that way. Aram, how did you decide which friend to ask? Did you know right away which was your most readily deceitful friend? I'm a little worried if I answer that, that I might help narrow it down. I think it helped. Which friend was it?

I think that this is the first time someone has actually pled the fifth in this court. Yeah. You're gonna incriminate a friend you don't want to. Okay. What are the name of the three people that you considered first? I think you probably already know who the top three would be, so I guess I'm comfortable. Aram, I hate to interrupt you because I'm very excited that you're going to reveal these three names. I really, I mean, let the record show. I've been trying to trick this guy into saying a name two times now. Here it is.

Third time's the charm and it's three names. We're not, but you're not revealing which one of these three people is, is the, is the culprit. But before you say those names, Liz, we are providing you now with a piece of paper and a M. Would you please write down your three guesses, newlywed style? All right. And I'll do some newlywed music while you're writing.

Do-ding-a-ding, do-ka-do-ka-do-ka-do-ka-do-ding-a-ding, do-ka-do-ka-do-ka-do-ka-do-ding-a-ding, do-ka-do-ka-do-ka-do-ka-do-ka-do-ding-a-ding, do-ka-do-ka-do-ka-do-ka-do-ding. Do you need more time? No, I'm ready. Okay, cool. All right, Aram. I hope you haven't had time to reconsider.

First names only, please. Wait, wait, wait, Aram. I'm going to write down my guesses. Okay, here we go. Okay, so who were the three people that you considered to engage in this deceit with you, Auram? In no particular order. Josh. Saraya.

Oh yeah. And Cameron. Okay, I didn't get any of those. And Kat. Well, that's four now? And Randy. Five. Five.

Oh, this is what happens when people crack under interrogation. All of a sudden it all starts spilling out. Yeah. This stopped being out of sight and became Ocean's Eleven. I had guessed Dane the Hambone, Willie Steve, or Gwen Sweet. And I knew it wasn't Gwen Sweet because that's my mother-in-law's maiden name. Yeah. Okay, Aram, take us through those candidates. What made each of them a possible choice?

I think the answer is the same for all of them. I just think they would not really ask that many questions, be kind of pretty uninterested in the whole thing. And just... And just... It's not that they love you, or even that they're fundamentally deceitful. They're just incurious.

Yeah, yeah. And an easy touch. I think all five of those people would just say, okay, sure. Liz, you wrote down three names. I'm pretty happy with my overlap. What were the three names that you wrote down three names. I'm pretty happy with my overlap. What were the three names that you wrote down? I wrote down Soraya, Josh, and Weehaw.

Oh, that's one that he didn't name. Yeah, I'm kind of surprised. Interesting. Do you think Weehaw asks too many questions? No, actually, I think Weeh all would be a great candidate. Can we rule we hot out or are they all still candidates? We have not ruled out. Not ruled out.

Not ruled out. And I'll remind you under fake oath, you've now there are now six names that have been mentioned. Is one of these culprits. Remember, they're Cameron, Suraya, Wu Tang, Frillbot. No, you're doing the Quincy boys from Doughboys. Yeah, I'm just listing Mike Mitchell's friends from high school. One of the people that I named is the person.

Is the culprit. This is very exciting now. Liz, of all these now six names, is there one that seems most likely to you? Yes. Okay. Yeah. And let me ask you, you mentioned that Liz has an opinion of you as a driver

that you did not necessarily want to confirm by revealing that you had gotten a speeding ticket on the eve of your honeymoon. That might maybe make your honeymoon not go so good, right? If Liz finds out the name of this person, is this gonna confirm some ideas that Liz has about this person? No, I don't think so.

You feel like you want to protect their privacy and yet you know Liz wants to know. And it hasn't occurred to you or you haven't gotten around to asking the person if it was okay to give their name to Liz. And yet you included their name in a list of six suspects here on a public podcast. Where is the consistency here? What is the welder's code? Well, I don't think I've revealed who they are at all. In fact, you asked for three names and I watered it down with two more. And you could start giving out even more names.

I could. Do you want to add Dane the Hambone? Sure. You want to put Frailbot on there? Sure, absolutely. Liz, besides your Frailbot on there? Sure. Absolutely. Liz, besides your curiosity, do you have any other reason for wanting the secret to be revealed? No. No.

Liz, let me ask you this question, and this might make you uncomfortable. Okay. Do you have any secrets? I don't think so. Not on purpose. Do you have any secrets that you have or keeping from Aram? No. No. Do you believe that it is okay for a spouse to keep a secret?

Depends on the secret. Yeah. Depends on the secret. Depends. Got me again, Liz. Too cool. Of course it depends on the secret. Why didn't I see that coming? Does Aram... Is it hard for you to keep secrets?

Yes. It is. I really wish I wasn't in this situation. That's a good point. What have you learned? Before I cast judgment, you've already gone through a journey where you realized that you had to confess to a crime and you did it. What would you do differently next time?

I would tell her about the ticket right away. And not involve one of these friends. Which friend was it? Yeah, which friend in particular was it? How did you decide which of that list of friends was the one you were going to call? Or is there a group chat that's all those friends but not Liz? There's no secret group chat. I think I just kind of randomly picked one.

I think they're all good candidates. Aaron, if I rule in Liz's favor, you're going to have to reveal the name of the person. What are you worried about happening once Liz finds out? At this point, my biggest concern is just her winning. I'm not really that worried about the repercussions, aside from the like very minor, just like this being a thing and this person knowing that she knows. Let me make sure that I understand. If for example, I were to order you to gain the consent of your friend to reveal their

identity to Liz and you were to follow that order, you would still be unhappy, even if they happily gave consent and said, of course, because it would be a thing. What is a thing? I mean, what do you mean by that? How would it be a thing? A thing is where you walk into the room and you see that person and you go,

oh, hey, that's the guy who did that thing. Even though I'm not mad, I don't hate them, but that's the guy. In RM's community, the most important thing in RM's community, really, ultimately, the most important thing is to not really care about anything. That way, anyone can ask anyone to do anything as long as they venmo after. Right.

It's no thing. Yeah. Liz, is there a name on your list that you've written down where if you find out that it was them, it will change your opinion of them or will it confirm your opinion of them? It wouldn't change my opinion of them. I guess I'm asking the next time you see this person in a room, if you knew that it was them, is it gonna be a thing?

No, no. Do you believe her, Arm? No, I think it's inevitable. It's- The thing is inevitable. Yes. Yeah. Well, you had said earlier, Arm, that you're most concerned about Liz winning.

Not about the truth coming out, but Liz winning. And I'm going to give you a little spoiler. She's going to win. But that doesn't mean that I know what my sentence is going to be. So I have to go into my chambers now and consider it. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Liz, this must give you some confidence about how you're going to come out in this case.

Yes. I'm feeling pretty confident. How are you feeling, Aram? I knew coming in that my chances were very low. So I'm'm alright. Yeah, I mean, you don't seem too bent out of shape on anything that's happening here. Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman decides when we come back in just a moment. The Greatest Generation has been going on for more than eight years, and while it's

the world's most beloved Star Trek podcast, we know it can be a little impenetrable. If you've been Greatest Gen curious but have never taken the leap, you could be forgiven for being a little bit intimidated. We recommend exploring your Greatest Gen curiosity in a safe, fun environment with partners you can trust. Right now is one of the best times ever to become a new listener. That's because we just started covering a new series, Star Trek Enterprise, one of the weirdest editions of Star Trek ever released.

This is your chance to ease into the greatest generation lifestyle. The greatest generation now covering Star Trek Enterprise. Go on with Scott Bakula every Monday on MaximumFun.org or in your podcast app. Hey, Sydney, you're a physician and the co-host of Sawbones, a marital tour of misguided medicine, right? That's true, Justin. Is it true that our medical history podcast is just as good as a visit to your primary care physician? No, Justin, that is absolutely not true. However, our podcast is funny and interesting and a great way to learn about the medical misdeeds of the past as well as some current not so legit health care fads.

So you're saying that by listening to our podcast, people will feel better. Sure. Isn't that the same reason that you go to the doctor? Well, you could say that. And our podcast is free. Yes, it is free. You heard it here first folks, Sawbones, Merrell Tour ofure, Miss Guy, The Medicine, right here on Maximum Fun, just as good as going to the doctor.

No, no, no, still not just as good as going to the doctor, but pretty good. It's up there. Judge Hatchman, we're taking a quick break. What's going on with you? Well, Jesse Thorne, I finished Middlemarch. I was reading it and also listening to Juliet Stevenson read it to me on the audiobook. And boy, I cannot recommend that novel enough. I finished reading it in the park and I just had to stand there for a while and think about it.

Thanks again to Christopher Fizel and the book club for getting me through that. I don't know what I'm gonna read next. So if you've got suggestions for me, why don't you bop on over to my Instagram account, which is John Hodgman, at John Hodgman, and give me your classic novel recommendations and your novel recommendations for novels of today. Maybe something that's been published within the past 18 months. I gotta read books. I loved Miranda July's new book, all fours. Yeah, go over, hey, go over to my Instagram

account at John Hodgman. I'm going to post something right now and you can, and you can leave the recommendation there, Jesse. Okay. Try to help my algorithm here. Okay. Thanks. I understand. I understand. I can, I, John, can I recommend speaking of recommending things? We have a new Max Fund podcast that I want to make mention of. I love it. It's called Primer. It's something that my colleagues, Kevin and Richard from Bullseye have been working on for actually like two years now.

Yeah. Along with one of my favorite Max Fund colleagues, Christian Duenas, who is also serving as one of the hosts of the show. Primer is basically, the idea is each season of the show takes you on a tour of a musical genre you might not know about. And a musical genre where the music is not in English. And this first season of Primer that just got underway

is about city pop, which is a Japanese music genre from, I guess, sort of the 70s into the 90s. That is a kind of light jazz and R&B inflected pop music. Yeah. That is very much having a moment. And I don't know anything about it. I am really excited to be listening to Primer and learning about it.

They've also got a bunch of really cool American musicians like Dame Funk and Devendra Banhart and stuff on the show to talk about city pop. But it is a very special tour of that genre. And yeah, a new kind of show for Max Fun, one of our first seasonal shows we've ever made, one of our first music shows we've ever made, one of our first music shows we've ever made.

Christian produced one of my favorite Max Fun shows ever, Heat Rocks, which was a music show. But it's a really great show whether you are a city pop lover, the people over in their city pop subreddit really were into it, or you really know nothing about it. In fact, it's really designed for you if you know nothing about it. So yeah, check it out.

It's called Primer. It just launched. You're listening and recommending it to people and sharing it and reviewing it. And Apple Podcasts and all that kind of stuff really will make a big difference to the show. So it's years of my colleagues' work, and they're really, really proud of it.

I'm very proud of them. So go check out Primer. I'm going to go check it out right now. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom and presents his verdict. So I'm sustaining my ruling that Liz is cool. And I'm giving a preliminary ruling with regard to Aram,

which is that Aram is not cool. Dude is cold. Ice cold. What's cooler than cool? I try, look, I tried to bring the heat to this guy, but he would not bend. I mean, I've, I've, I've, I've, don't think I've ever encountered a more unflappable

litigant in this courtroom. This guy won't flap, Jesse. Nope. I'm about ready to confess to this crime. That's how he judo did on me. You're a cool guy, Aram, but you're cold. I love it. But here's the thing.

There's no such thing as a gentleman bandit. That's what I was talking about Jesse with before. And I can tell you how I know. I was at dinner and a new friend of ours who we were getting to know, the parent of a friend of one of our kids, she told an incredible story. That when she was in second grade grade her second grade teacher got engaged to a young man in town real estate agent I believe in town and as young teachers would sometimes do she invited the whole class to the wedding and our friend she

went to the wedding as a second grader and had a great time with all of her little friends and it was less than a year later that this new bride, the second grade teacher, discovered in the car of her new husband stacks of cash and multiple fake beards and mustaches, which Which led to the new bride to wonder if perhaps the young respectable real estate agent she married might not be the person who had been robbing banks throughout the southeast for the past year and a half. The person who had been dubbed by the newspapers, you guessed it, the gentleman bandit. Because he dressed up nicely and was always polite. Oh, and by the way, she was absolutely right. She dropped a dime on the guy and the police raided, stopped him in his car the next day, found a whole bunch of other stuff, and found a storage, and he led them to a storage locker full of even more money and other kinds of led them to a storage locker full of even more money and other kinds of mischief.

I mean, bank robber stuff, not anything beyond what you would use to rob a bank. A gun is what I'm talking about. And he confessed everything. Not like live polar bandits or something. Yeah, and he confessed everything. He confessed that he had gotten the idea to become a bank robber from a TV show and did it.

And it made him feel good. And he said, I'm, I'm not even he said, there's no such thing as a gentleman bandit. And indeed there isn't right. Because for example, his method of robbing the bank would be to go to the bank manager's house the night before the bank opened and he the bank manager and the bank manager's wife hostage overnight didn't harm them right was polite but he terrified them terrorized them the whole night through so that he and the bank manager could go into the bank first thing in the morning he'd get all the money and go away that's not gentlemanly nor was it gentlemanly for him to inform them

that if if they tried to do anything if they tried to do anything, if they tried to call the police or they got him out of the way, he had an accomplice outside who would finish the job and that person was dressed as a ninja. This guy was going through a lot, but he wasn't a gentleman. Point is, it's not cool to rob banks. People get hurt. It's not cool to drive recklessly. Miniature horses get hurt. It's not cool to steal someone's story. Like I just stole my new friend's story for entertainment purposes here.

I'm that's not gentlemanly of me. I just took that story and took it for my own to entertain you, but also to illustrate a point, which is it's not cool to to lie and the thing is that if you had just You know if you'd gotten this ticket it was right before the honeymoon you unconsciously put it out out of your mind And then when it came time to pay you did pay But first you confess that you had gotten this ticket. That would be cool. That'd be fine. I get it but you compounded the issue by enlisting an accomplice to your crime, which was lying by omission. That, I think, is would be unsettling to any spouse and an erosion of trust that you are willing to protect that person's privacy over the bond of truth that you are supposed to be holding between each other

in marriage. Like that's, Liz is cool, right? Liz is like, yeah, I'm just curious. I just want to know who it is. I was trying to get Liz to say, yeah, it feels a little weird that my husband, the person that I love most in life, we've pledged to trust each other till death do us part or whatever, is protecting this friend rather than just owning up to the whole thing.

But Liz, I mean, you should be, I mean, unless Liz is a liar too, just like you are, she's like, no, I just kind of want to know. And I think that's fair. I think that if you are confessing, which is the correct impulse, and I think a noble one, because we all make mistakes,

we all make errors, and we all have a right to, and should have an opportunity to make amends, you did the right thing. You confessed that you withheld this information and you went out of your way actively to conceal this expenditure, which is concealing expenditures within a marriage is not a good look, you know? Like it's not, no one is hiding money they're spending for good reasons. You know, that's, and that's the sort of thing that can really erode the

trust in a marriage. So you made the right call to appreciate that even if she were never going to find out it was a bad, it would be bad for you to compound the fly further by sneaking out to traffic school. It was time to come clean, but you didn't come clean all the way. And I think you make a reasonable argument like I don't want't come clean all the way. And I think you make a reasonable argument, like, I don't want to come clean because and violate the privacy of my accomplice. But that's what coming clean means.

You got to come clean all the way. Now I don't have anything to come clean about in this regard. I don't want to out your friend for helping you out. And I don't think that I, I don't think that I have to in the sense that I don't think I can or should order you to say the name right here on the podcast. But I do think that Liz should read the names on her card and observe your face as she's reading them. And then maybe Liz will feel satisfied or maybe not. And Liz can define satisfaction in whatever way she wants. But I'm going to go ahead and make my screen bigger. This would be a good time to go to the YouTube, everybody. To watch Aram's face...

as Liz reads the names. And Liz, you know the names. You can memorize them, right? I want you to look into his eyes while you're saying the names. Don't look at the cards. All right. Whenever you're ready. Saraya. All right.

Whenever you're ready. Saraya. Josh. I don't know, I'm not getting much from this. Well, there's one more name. No, because one of the names is crossed out on this card. Yeah, I crossed it out. Oh, right.

Yeah, because it wasn't on his original list. Okay. He's cold, right? We, because it wasn't on his original list. Okay. He's cold, right? We took the heat to him and he didn't bend. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. What was the name you were waiting to hear? I was waiting to hear the three names on her card.

Oh, okay. Can't get him. Can't get this kid. Can't get this kid, Jesse Thorne. So do I take it that you are not satisfied, Liz? I'm not satisfied. All right. I demand satisfaction for Liz.

Aram, you've got to go talk to that friend, tell them that you're going to tell Liz, and then you're going to tell Liz. Okay, I'll do that. And since it doesn't matter to us one way or the other, you both can keep that secret from this court for the rest of your lives. Let me just say, Arm, that when you say to the person that you want to reveal their name to Liz, I want you to carry this message to them as well.

In my opinion and the opinion of this court, there is no nobility in helping a person keep a secret from their spouse or keeping their own name secret from that spouse in order to protect their own reputation. If you are genuinely willing to come clean, they should support you in that and give their name because I'm a little concerned you're going to give them a wink when you say it's really up to you. Wink're gonna give them a wink. When you say it's really up to you, wink. You might even say wink. I'm actually gonna have them watch this episode before. So, yeah. But that sounds fair.

They'll hear it straight from you. Well, I'm satisfied. But it's one thing to lie, it's another thing to engage and accomplish. If you wanna come clear, you come clear all the way. I am ruling once again, Liz is cool. Arm is cold and cool. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge I am ruling once again, Liz is cool. Arm is cold and cool. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. What does a yellow light mean? Slow down, okay. What does a yellow light mean? Slow down. Okay. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Liz, are you ready for satisfaction? I'm ready.

Which don't one do you think it is? I think it's probably Josh. That's kind of where my mind goes first for the person he would reach out to. But the first person that actually just popped into my mind was Saraya. I feel like it's a bit of a toss-up. Aram, how are you feeling knowing that you're gonna have to go through with this?

I'm okay with it. I'm fine with it. It's nice to know that if they don't agree to it, then I won't have to I think that's fair. So which of the following was it? Angelica, Big Jim, Breslin, Brian Holt, Campanelli, Chankton, Dano, Frailbot, Glenn, Mike Green, Greg, Joey O, Keefa, Lindorque, Mikeius, Justin Kiley, Neil Kiley, Sarah Kiley, The Nader, Chuck,

John, Ramondi, Scoop, aka Seanzy, aka Arthur, that's Micus's brother, Spike, The Stern, Steve O. Stocky, Sustin, Joe Tormey, Anthony Dan, Danba, Chris Wham or the Whammer, Kev, Todd, Ryan, Ed Wu or Wu Tang, aka Adam Wu. I can't say. What is that? The Doughboys Wikipedia page? Yeah, I went on the Doughboys Wiki. The Doughboys have a Wiki that lists all Mike Mitchell's friends from Quincy, Massachusetts. Liz and Aram, thank you for joining us on the Judge John

Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. In just a minute we'll have swift justice. First our thanks to Redditor Regd for naming this week's episode the right to a speedy denial. Join the conversation at the Maximum Fund subreddit.

That's at maximumfund.reddit.com. We'll be asking for title suggestions there too. You can also check out other people's title suggestions. It's always a fun thread. Evidence and photos from the show are posted on our Instagram account, instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. You can still look, still send me your favorite scruffy dogs on Instagram, at jne, very famous.

Or just, or just follow me on Instagram. Just follow them. But you know what? Send me your favorites, scruffy dogs. Remember I want, I want mutts and I don't want dogs where you're like, oh my God, he's so ugly. He's cute. I want actual cute dogs.

They should look like Benji or something. We're also on TikTok and YouTube at JudgeJohnHodgmanPod. You can watch whole episodes of our program on YouTube. It is a ton of fun to watch there. Make sure you smash the like and subscribe buttons there. You can also find special exclusive video only content on those platforms. So go check those out as well. And by the way, speaking of special exclusive content, we've been having a great time recording Membo mailbag episodes.

Once a month, we are making a special episode just for members of Maximum Fund. So if you're a Max Fund member, get your bonus feed in order. If you're not, you can become a member at MaximumFund.org slash join. Thank you to JP Devine on Apple Podcasts for our five star rating. You want to read that, John? Yeah, JP says, I don't know how they do it. But every episode, no matter how goofy the dispute, it's touching. John, that's me, finds a ton of funny but also a lot of warmth in the relationship

between the Lydians. And guess what? Thank you, JP, but guess what? So does Jesse Thorne. Couldn't do it without you, Jesse. Oh, thank you, friend. And of course we couldn't do it without our wonderful listeners

and listener members like you, JP DeVine. If you're listening to us on Apple Podcast, why don't you please go over there and give us a rating and review? It really does help people discover the show, as does pressing that like button. I don't want you to smash anything. We're, you know, we're too tired to smash. But pressing those like buttons, the subscribe buttons, those notification buttons over on YouTube, sharing our social media stories,

sharing, saving them, commenting, all that stuff really does help people discover the show. And we're really grateful to you for doing those things. Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode recorded at Max Fun HQ by Jennifer Marmer. KT Wegman was helping out a lot there, too. Our thanks to her for her video help. Our social media manager is Natty Lopez. Our podcast edited by AJ McKeon.

Our video editor is Daniel Spear. And of course, Jennifer is our ever capable producer. Now Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with quick judgment. Here's something from Mayor Pupenmire on the maximum fun sub Reddit. There we go. That's a good name. Mayor Pupenmire. What is it? What? What do they got to say? I request an injunction against the entire country of England insisting that I need to own an electric tea kettle. I already have an appliance that heats up everything.

Why do I need another one that just heats up a thing? I'm not going to insist, Mayor Pupenmayer, that you get an electric tea kettle. But you need to know I live in a place place called New York city where my counter space is extremely minimal. If I had extra real estate, if I had extra counters, would I have an electric tea kettle? Absolutely. They're incredible. I'd be drinking a lot more tea to boot. I think they're wonderful. And I think people who love tea and love pour over coffee or whatever, they're terrific.

They're terrific. But if they're not for you, they're not for you. And guess what? I hate to break it to you, Mayor Puppemeier. I don't think the country of England cares what you buy. Go do your own thing. Hey, we're now past Memorial Day. As noted, I am wearing my shorts under my robe. It's getting warm. It's getting to be summertime. It's getting to be a funner time. And that means I want your summertime disputes. We're probably going to have Monte bell Monte coming through pretty soon. We want to hear all your summertime fun time disputes. You have a case about the beach. What's this year's song of the summer?

Is it espresso by Sabrina carpenter? I don't know what that is. Jennifer Marmot put that in there. Is that a good song? You tell me, good or bad? I don't know. Pick a fight with Jennifer. Where's the best place to cool off? Go swimming at the beach, go swimming in a lake, go to the mountains. We all love summer camp disputes.

Do you have a beef with someone in the cabin across the camp that you wanna finally air out? They don't have to be here to defend themselves. We'll settle your color wars. That's right. Give us all your summertime beefs, rivalries, disputes, fights, whatever they may be. Send them to us at maximumfund.org slash JJHO.

And of course, we want to hear all of your disputes, no matter what they're about. Of course, we want to hear those summer disputes about melon ballers. We also want to hear your miscellaneous disputes. Go to maximumfund.org slash JJ HO. And remember this, if you are a Max Fund member, let us know that you're a Max Fund member.

Because we are currently running a promo, which is we will answer any Max Fund member submission on the Membo mailbag, except for weird or offensive stuff. Literally, you can ask us, should we name our fish this or that? We'll decide it on the Membo mailbag because we appreciate your membership so much.

Maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Here's my advice, get two fish, name one this, the other that. Oh, that's a good idea. Or then three, the other one's called the other. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximum Fund.

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