Judge John Hodgman - The Right to Remain Silent

Episode Date: November 13, 2013

Does teenage Sophie need a push from Dad to get over her shyness?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the right to remain silent. Sophie brings the case against her dad, Chris. Chris wants Sophie to get over her shyness and show more confidence in her public speaking and interaction with others. headfirst into the situations that make her uncomfortable, and he's ready to give her a little push. Sophie says she's making progress in her own way and doesn't need any pushing from her dad. Who's right, who's wrong, only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. I wrote a letter to President Jimmy Carter demanding that his administration take action

to end discrimination against shy persons sometime in the very near future. I pointed out three target areas, laws, schools and attitudes where shy rights maybe could be safeguarded. I mean, I tried not to be pushy, but I laid it on the line. Mr. President, I concluded, you'll probably kill me for saying this, but compared to what you've done for other groups, we shies have settled for peanuts. As you may know, we are not ones to make threats, but it is clear to me that if we don't get some action on this, it could be a darned quiet summer. It is up to you, Mr. President. Whatever you decide will be okay by me.

I never got around to mailing the letter, but evidently word got around in the shy community that I had written it. And I've noticed that most shy persons are not speaking to me these days. So bailiff Jesse, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. So help you God or whatever.

I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he himself is so not shy that an 11th habit of highly effective people is be as not shy as Judge John Hodgman? I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman?

Sophie, Chris, you may be seated. This is a rare case of juvenile court of Judge John Hodgman. I normally do not hear cases involving persons under the age of 18 because they have no rights under Internet law. on behalf of helping his daughter to be less shy and using my podcast to humiliate her into doing it that I had to hear the case. But before we proceed, Sophie or Chris, for an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can either of you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom? I don't know. It's got to be jump right in jump right in chris excuse me sir be quiet for a moment sophie i'm so sorry sophie can you name the piece of popular culture that i referenced as i entered the courtroom

um i'm afraid i don't know it no okay do you ever listen to A Prairie Home Companion? No. Okay. That was a hint. Chris, now you may speak. Something from A Prairie Home Companion, I'm not sure. Did you have a legitimate guess? No, it was some guess.

I really didn't have a good guess. I want hear, but I want to hear your bad guess. Don't be shy, Chris. There's nothing. There's no right or wrong here. Except if you're right or wrong. Right, exactly. You're right, Jesse. My guess would have been some gay rights activist.

You're wrong. You're wrong, Chris. You're wrong. Sorry. I knew from the beginning that you would be. It is an excerpt from the humorous essay by Garrison Keillor called Shy Rights, Why Not Pretty Soon? That was collected in his first collection of New Yorker humorous essays called Happy to Be Here. humorous essays called Happy to Be Here.

And now look, everybody. I know it's in vogue among you hip public radio kids to hate on Garrison Keillor. Not me. Not me. Guy's putting out a show every week, a live show. He's jazz improvising a Lake Wobegon story every week. What have you done? Nothing. With your fast editing and your fancy ideas. No. I stand by it. Stand by him. Garrison Keillor was a huge influence on me. This particular book, Happy to Be Here, I found in my father-in-law's house when I was courting my then-wife. Very important book in my formation of my sense of humor.

And one of the things I love about it is it is credited to Garrison Keillor, quote, America's tallest radio comedian. I still think that's funny. So everyone just take it easy. All right, now I'm off my soapbox. Judge Hodgman, when you say everyone, it almost feels like you're talking about some person in particular.

No, I'm talking about everyone. Okay. Fair enough. Who am I to suggest otherwise? There is more than one. I know who you're thinking of, but there's more than one person in my life who is pulling this anti-Garrison Keillor routine. It's not for me. Look look i understand why people are why people are doing it he's an old guy he's easy to he's easy to beat up on and sometimes his shows are dumb not necessarily literally he's pretty huge he is he's very he's got a he's got a long he's got a big big reach i'm six i'm six three two oh five and he is definitely bigger than me yeah but sometimes you know what sometimes Sometimes every show is dumb.

You put out, look, you know, you can't win them all. But you can win them some. And only one of you, Sophie or Chris, is going to win this case. Sophie, Chris has come to this court saying that you are too shy. Before you answer that accusation, Chris, why don't you make it? What is the problem with your daughter? I don't know if I care. Well, I guess it is a problem.

Otherwise, I wouldn't bring it here. The problem is she is too shy. She's afraid to put herself out there. And I guess my main concern, the reason it comes to a head now is because she'll be going to a new high school next year without any of the friends that she has currently. And she's going to need the skills, the social skills to sort of get involved in activities, to make new friends and do those kinds of things. So I'm a little bit concerned about that. Sophie, how old are you? I'm going to be 14 this weekend. Oh, happy birthday. Thank you. How are you going to celebrate by coming to see me perform in one of the cities of America

that you can find out about on johnhodgman.com? I'm not shy about promoting myself. about promoting myself. Now, how are you going to actually celebrate? I'm not sure since both of my parents seem to have forgotten my birthday until yesterday when I told them that it was this weekend. Chris, did you forget your daughter's birthday? Well, not exactly, but we haven't had anything planned as of yet. There's no major plans. How many brothers and sisters do you have, Sophie?

I don't have any siblings. Oh, Sophie. Only child club, right? Mm-hmm. Super smart, afraid of conflict, narcissist club? Yeah. I know where you get the narcissism from, your father. Good.

And so you're starting high school next year is that correct or you're starting a new high school your father said you were starting a new high school i'm starting high school next year your father doesn't know even what grade you're in basically is that so accurate to say no it's not all right look chris i'm talking to your daughter here, first of all, with your permission. I'm being nice. Let me just say, she's answering my questions in full, complete sentences. She seems to be completely able to have a conversation. She doesn't seem too shy to me.

How does this shyness, this crippling shyness manifest itself? In any number of ways, I mean, I can give you the example of recently we we went to as a Father's Day present. Sophie bought me tickets to your show actually in Madison. We weren't able to make that show. Well, so we we you changed the date, I think. Oh, yes. Excuse me. It was my fault. What? I raised my hand and was going to encourage Sophie to participate in your show, but she would not do that. And I dare say you made the right decision, didn't you, Sophie? Because what did I do? Well, what happened is you brought a couple of kids on stage and you asked them if your jokes were relevant.

And that was the bit. And that was the bit. And we all had a good time humiliating those children on stage. Now, and I dare say the children had a good time as well. Mm-hmm. Do you regret, excuse me, sir. Do you regret not getting up on stage when asked if there was anyone, if there were any young people there?

I do, yeah. You do regret it. Okay. You know that that is not an argument for your side of the story. You are bolstering your father's argument. Yeah. Did you now, the show that I'm performing now, and you can find out more details about it at johnhodgman.com slash tour.

The show that I'm performing now has some adult content on it. That's why I wanted to find out how many kids were there under the age of 18. And to make sure that I had the chance to look them in the eye and humiliate them personally. Were you scandalized or otherwise traumatized by anything that i said uh in my show no okay chris were you upset that your daughter had to hear some of the stories of the weird stories of a 42 year old man no okay no not at all thanks guys i appreciate that i'm just trying to do some new kinds of comedy you know what i mean it's mean? It's a little more vulnerable, and I'm not a nice person, it turns out. But set that aside. Sophie said she did regret not getting up on stage.

Chris, do you have any other evidence to suggest that she is too shy? The following day, we went to, I think it's called the Milwaukee Market. The Milwaukee Public Market. Yeah, milwaukee market and milwaukee public market yeah milwaukee public market the favorite public market of eugene merman who was appearing on that show with me yes and it so happened that my wife was downstairs ordering me a burrito and she saw eugene and texted us we were upstairs um at some tables just chatting, and Sophie got very excited that Eugene was there, so we decided to go downstairs and introduce Sophie to him or introduce ourselves, and when we did that, it was the most, I've never seen a person react like this before in my life.

Sophie, I kind of had to push her forward. And when she saw Eugene, she kind of put her fist up in front of her face like he was going to hit her. And he was very nice to her. And then I forced her to shake his hand. I know police spoke the whole time. Sophie, is what your father's saying is true? Yeah. Did your father shove you? Yeah. Did he shove you in the direction of eugene merman and that was understandably terrifying wasn't it yes what were you afraid would happen if you had spoken to eugene merman um i'm not sure actually i guess i'm just scared of um making a fool out of myself well let's find out if you will because because we have Eugene Merman on the line now.

Eugene, are you here? Yes, I am here. Hello, everyone in the podcast listening audience. This is my friend and one of my, I wouldn't even say peer in comedy, one of my mentors in comedy, Eugene Merman, with whom I was touring with Kristen Schaal not long ago when this when these very events went down. Hello, Eugene. Hello, John. I remember these events quite well. So how would you describe them from your point of view? Well, from my point of view, I never knew that there was a mother who sent a text. We often don't know. We often know.

As far as I knew at the time, it seemed like an overbearing father was trying to make sure his daughter met me. But, I mean, basically two people, one of which was father and daughter, seemed to want to say hello. The daughter seemed to be terrified of, you know, the idea of interacting with someone who's a voice actor. It seemed very fine. We eventually shook hands. It also didn't seem like she had to say hello to me. But now that I realize she would have liked to and was terrified of it, it seems like it would be fine to say hello.

Either way, I just thought it was a lovely family going through a tuse of greeting people from television. As an expert witness in this case, Eugene, would you say that this was a situation where a young person wanted to say hi to one of her idols and was a little bit shy about it. And her father was encouraging her to step out of her own comfort zone and actually do the thing that she wanted to do. Or would you say it was a situation where a creep of a father really, really wanted to interact with someone from television and was using his daughter's quote unquote shyness as an excuse to harass a guy who had just done a show and wanted to buy some food in a market exactly it's it was

at the time unclear whether whether the daughter wanted to say hello or whether the father father just wanted to cut off a piece of my hair and have it as a snort. It seemed vaguely like he was trying to help her, but it also seemed like she was so not excited about the help that I couldn't decide. Either way, the whole thing was not awkward. It was charming and not a problem. It was charming and not a problem. Eugene, is there anything that Sophie could have done that would have led you to conclude that she was an idiot, a dumb-dumb, a humiliated person, just an embarrassing waste of human space? I guess if she had started, like, tried to pick a fight, physical altercation, I would have been like, this is a very weird teen. Yeah, that's true. I remember in Royal Oak, Michigan, there was that 13-year-old girl who just started yelling obscenities at you and then tried punching you in the stomach a couple of times.

And on balance, she looked pretty bad coming out of that one. Yeah. Thank God for my karate training. I would say offhand, there is nothing that a young lady could do that would make me think, what a terrible young lady. Young lady? Yeah. Oh, sorry.

Sorry. The other young lady. Sophie, specifically the other young lady sophie specifically okay is now that you have eugene merman on the line um how would you describe your feeling right now um um a little starstruck? Mm-hmm. What is your favorite Eugene Merman project? How do you know Eugene from? Bob's Burgers. From Bob's Burgers, on which he plays the character Eugene.

Mm-hmm. And why do you like the work of Eugene Merman so much? I don't know. It can be kind of difficult to make me laugh, actually, and that show always does. And did you enjoy Eugene Merman's comedy performance in Milwaukee? What was your favorite part? I think when he read the letters he sent on Facebook, that was my favorite part. Now, it's obviously very easy for you to speak to me because I'm nothing. I'm a nobody, and my work doesn't matter to you. But Eugene, as someone whose work matters to you, you have an opportunity to say, I like the thing you do.

Would you like to do that now? Okay. Okay. Do I go? Yeah, just say, hey hey eugene it's me sophie i'm a i'm a cool kid hi i'm sophie and i think you're funny thank you sophie you seem like a wonderful normal person thank you great you're very welcome. Now, Chris, why was I able to help your daughter and you were not? You have a skill set that I don't possess, apparently. You have a way with people.

When this case was submitted to me, this is what you wrote. My frustration results in me begging, bribing, or yelling to get Sophie to try new things. She is shy, and I want her to try things like reading her poetry at the monthly coffee house at the college where I work. Do you really yell at Sophie to get her to try new things? I don't think so, but I've been told by Sophie that I yell at her. So I was trying to give her a side of the, her side of the story in that I don't yell. I'm very polite and soft-spoken. Sophie, do you care to differ with your father? When I met Eugene, I don't think anybody saw it, but I started crying because my dad was scaring me so much so yeah well it's true that she cried but okay show me on Eugene how your dad scared you

why did your dad scare you um he just kept pushing me forward and he kept saying he's trying to shake your hand. Shake his hand. And you started to cry. A little bit. How would you have liked that interaction to go differently?

Here are some of the options. I would have liked it to not happen at all. I would have liked my dad to take some time and just let me get comfortable standing in front of Eugene Merman, even if that took 35 to 45 minutes while Eugene stood there waiting for me. I would have liked my dad to push me harder until I was forced to hug Eugene Merman. How would you have liked it to gone? Oh, probably the second one.

I don't think it would have taken quite that long, but I don't, I would have preferred not to be pushed towards anyone. I think that's a fairly reasonable request. Do you want to be less shy, Sophie? Yeah. Do you agree with the premise that you are shy? Mm-hmm.

Do you want to go and read poetry in the coffee house at the college where your father works? No. Of course not. No one does. Sorry, sir. I agree strongly. When I read that that was one of the goals, I don't want to read poetry there, and I'm 39. You're a famous poet, Eugene. I have the gumption, but in due time.

Tell me, Chris, tell me about this coffee house. How much money are you going to get from the coffee house if you get your daughter to read poetry there? I'm not going to get any money. But the reason that I would like her to do that is because she enjoys poetry. She talks about it a lot. She spends a lot of time writing poetry. And she's been published a couple times in, you know, some magazines. And I think it would be, I think it would be a good experience for her to, and help her to overcome

her, her shyness to see that when she shares her feelings and shares her work, that people are going to respond positively to it. And you might even get on a podcast, right? Exactly. What do you do at this college? I'm the vice president. The vice president of college? I'm vice president of academic and student affairs. And do you deal with a lot of shy kids at your college? There are some, sure. I run into all kinds of students. How often is it that a 13 or a 14-year-old will come to the coffee house and read her poetry? It's probably not that common, but the coffee house is open to members of the community, so we have people of all ages that come. In general, it tends to be students that are enrolled in a creative writing class or some other arts class.

Yeah, you think it might be college-age students who would come to it, right? Why would you say it's not that common? Would you say it has anything to do with the fact that it would be weird and a little ridiculous? No, I wouldn't say that at all. Sophie, is your father making you wear a beret and a black turtleneck and drink red wine a lot? No. Would you say your father is trying to artistically live vicariously through you?

Maybe. Chris, how do you respond to that accusation? That's ridiculous. No, I have I have disdain for the arts. I'm a scientist. I was trained as a biologist. And despite all my encouragement, Sophie is very much into creative writing, poetry, theater, those kinds of things. Despite your encouragement, her your encouragement of her to abandon those useless pursuits and take on science. Is that right? Exactly.

Yes. And yet she bought comedy tickets for you as a Father's Day present. Is that because you like comedy or because Sophie is equally a narcissistic sociopath as you are? And when she buys tickets for you, she is really buying them for herself. I think there's a little bit of truth in that statement. But really, she's a really sweet girl

and knows that I really enjoy your comedy and the podcast. And it was a nice way for us to spend some time together. Where did you get the money, Sophie, to buy your dad these tickets? First of all, let me apologize for having to reschedule that Madison, Wisconsin show. But I think it all worked out for the best because you got to also see when we rescheduled and I came to Milwaukee, I came with Eugene Merman and Kristen Shaw and you got to see two other two great actual comedians, as well as my imitation of stand up comedy. And it worked out well, right?

Now, where'd you get the money for the tickets? Allowance and some help from my mother. You seem like a very smart, nice, generous young woman with terrific taste. Thank you. Do you think that talking, is there anyone else that you would like to meet that I can get on the phone right now? No, that's okay. Who else are your favorites, though?

I do like Kristen Schaal a lot. I like Zach Galifianakis as well. Guess what? Yeah. Guess who's on the line? No. Did you hear that? No.

Did you hear that? Kristen Shaw and Zach Galifianakis are right here now wearing matching black turtlenecks. No, it's not true. It's just me and Eugene still. Eugene? Yes. I'd love to talk to Zach. First of all, Eugene, thank you again for introducing me to the milwaukee public market yes lovely market it was really terrific and we had been there right before our

show and i gather this happened the next day is that correct yeah i decided to go in the morning and walk around got some great spices. Had a lot of fun. Now, when you're walking around the market of a morning just buying some spices, how do you feel about being approached? Just so Sophie understands what the limits are and what your real feeling is, how do you feel about being approached by people saying,

I like what you do? I find that it's totally fine, especially if it doesn't involve a long, weird story. Yeah. I mean, also in this instance, sounds like Chris could have just talked to me for a minute or so until Sophie felt comfortable and then kind of been like, this is Sophie, as opposed to starting it off with Sophie and then pushing her. So that's just one way that I would interact in the future when you guys run into Kristen or John Benjamin at the market next time. How do you feel about people taking photographs with you?

If it's like one or two people, sounds fine. But if it's like a whole marching band or something, you're not into it? Oh, sorry. I mean, over and over. It's really it's really quantity that's upsetting, not the act. Right. Like like everybody. Never mind. Terrible analogy now that I think about it. I think I think Judge Hodgman's example of a marching band that all wanted to take pictures with you, Eugene, or possibly. Oh, I thought together a marching band that all wanted to take pictures with you, Eugene, or possibly... Oh, I thought together. A marching band that together wants to take a photo is fine. A marching band that's like one at a time.

One at a time as they're marching by you. Exactly. Basically, the answer is I'd happily take a picture with, say, like Guns N' Roses, but not with Polyphonic Spree. Sophie, does that make sense to you? Okay. Sorry that I didn't pick bands from today. Chris, what would you have me order if I were to find in your favor? I guess I would like to be able to sort of compel Sophie to engage in certain activities when I request it to help her.

And really, it's altruistic. I only want to help her overcome her shyness. So I guess the first thing that I would ask is that despite your characterization of it being weird, I think it would be good for her to read poetry at the coffee house. It's only like three to five minutes. You would like me specifically to compel her to read some of her poetry at the coffee house. It's only like three to five minutes. You would like me specifically to compel her to read some of her poetry at the coffee house? I think that would be, yeah. And more, go on. Well, in the future, I'd like to be able to say,

Sophie, try this and not have to push her to do it. I think that push was out of a sense of frustration. Sophie, what would you like me to order your dad to do, should I find in your favor? I think really I'd just like to, when being asked to try something new, I'd like to be consulted instead of just like, I'd like to be able to pick the new things that I try rather than just being told, I want you to try this. But what if you don't try anything? Yes. What if? What?

Can you, can you give me some counter evidence to your father's assertion that you don't try anything without him physically shoving you into it that would suggest that you, there are things you do try this podcast he didn't um i i was willing to do this i thought it would be fun i was scared right right you're not you're not strapped into a chair at this time you're not being compelled to speak into the microphone no i think i've heard everything I need to hear. Eugene, would you please shove me into my chambers so that I can deliberate and then

I will come back and Ah! Okay, Eugene! Oh, okay, Eugene! Alright, I'm going in already. I'll be back with my decision in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Eugene's a professional voice actor.

He's got his efforts down. That's what they call it when you make a grunt. Sometimes I'll go in and have to do just a bunch of effort sounds for Bob's, just ADR. You can knock it out. I mean, you're a one-take effort guy, I can tell already, based on the efforts that you just put in right there. I can pretend to push him again. That's how good I am.

And he's not even here where I am. Okay, go on. Chris, how do you feel about your chances in this case? I don't think it looks so good for me. I mean, even though Sophie did admit to being shy, I think probably my methods of trying to force her to do things might not be viewed as the best parenting style. Were you ever shy yourself? Totally. When I was young, I was just as shy as Sophie, if not worse. Did you find that being physically pushed into things, and by things, I mean, beloved comedians like Eugene Merman. Was the solution to your shyness? No, it wasn't. Sophie, how do you feel about your chances in the case? Actually, not too great.

I think my dad's going to take it. Really? Why is that? I guess just because I don't think I have as much of an argument as he does. Do you think that might be your lack of self-confidence talking? Yeah. Well, what you lack in self-confidence you make up for in self-awareness. So kudos to you for that, Sophie. Sophie, what would be your ideal situation to meet a Eugene Merman?

I think maybe if I was there with friends rather than my dad, who can be a little frightening sometimes. I think if my friends were talking to him first, it would be easier for me to speak to him. Do you want to try playing it out and see how it goes? I mean, we have Eugene here. Okay. I can be your, what's your best friend named? Her name is Isabel. I'll be Isabel.

Okay. You be Sophie. Okay. Okay. Where are we like at? Where do you hang out? Probably like a skate park or a roller rink? No, we'd probably be at the bookstore.

Right. The bookstore. Okay. Okay. Hey, Sophie, it's me, your best friend, Isabel. Hey, did you check out this cool new issue of Tiger Beat, One Direction edition? I haven't seen it yet no it sounds cool yeah it's probably pretty holy moly i recognize that guy from our popular favorite show uh oh gosh what's that guy's name his name is eugene merman oh man. Eugene Merman. I don't think I could go up and talk to him. Do you think you could? No. But it seems like we got to. I mean, both for the purposes of

the trajectory of our lives and for dramatic purposes. Alright. Okay. Let's go do it. Okay. We'll give each other friendship bracelets so that we have the confidence to do it. Okay. You say the first thing.

You say the first thing. He's looking at Stephen Covey's 48 Laws of Power. Cool book. Oh, thanks. I'm actually just here to use the bathroom. I hate books. But I love knowledge. How are you guys?

What are both your names? Where do you go to school? Favorite foods? I'm Isabel. I go to school at Immaculate Conception. And my favorite food, of course, is spaghetti and meatballs. That's great, Isabel. That's very normal for a teenager.

And you? My name is Sophie. I'm taking online courses through University of Missouri, and my favorite food is chips. That's great. Tell me more about these online courses. Are you getting a degree? What kind of a degree are you getting? They're high school courses.

Oh, so you can graduate when you're 15 and become a doctor? Maybe. All right. Well, that sounds great. You sound pretty accomplished. Thank you. And you know to stay off drugs, right? Yes.

Good. I mean, anyway, yeah, no, yeah no staff drugs but start whiskey at 17 eugene it was so nice to meet you will you autograph this copy of our this digital copy of bob's burgers which is how young people watch videos yeah i would love to sign your phone you're asking me to sign a phone and I will happily sign once you pop up the screen in the video section of Bob's Burgers. Done.

Thanks, Eugene. Gee whiz, Sophie. That was one of the funnest things I ever done did. Me too. Hey, Isabel, why you talk so weird? No problem. Isabel, nothing weird. Good luck. Well, that went really well, Sophie.

I feel like this is one of the best days of my life. Mine too. Well, we'll find out what Judge John Hodgman has to say when we come back in just a second. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network. Boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel.

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I am not going to lie to you. There is absolutely a way that you might approach a Eugene Merman or another person that you're fond of in the world and absolutely humiliate yourself. It is possible. You can make yourself look terrible to someone that you admire. How does this happen? to someone that you admire. How does this happen? Well, maybe you ask them to take a picture with your whole marching band

or otherwise inconvenience them such that they become visibly uncomfortable or feel cornered or you don't respect the fact that they need to be on their way after a period of time. Maybe you decide now is a great time to tell them about your 9-11 conspiracy theories. Maybe you want to make them feel uncomfortable by shoving a child at them physically.

These are all ways that your encounter can go awry. But Sophie, I don't think that that's going to happen with you because through various role-playing and other desensitizing exercises that we've gone through here together, it has been revealed, not through argument but by example, that you are a nice person and a normal person who is reasonably shy around some of the frankly the greatest comedians

and voice actors of our day judge hodgman you flatter me too much oh yes well you've got to great you've got that great voice isabel but also uh you have fairly good judgment and i will say this while every person in the world has their own, and this goes for not merely famous minor television personalities like myself, or public broadcasting legends like Jesse Thorne, or Eugene Merman, who is a sweet, generous Eugene Merman, but for everyone in the world, even if they are not involved in the arts in any way. Everyone has their own set of circumstances in which they feel uncomfortable in a conversation that you will learn over time to avoid. But almost everyone in the world appreciates a polite, hello, I think you're great. See you later. Sophie, do you understand what I'm saying? I think the point that I was trying to make is that there is no person in the world, whether or not they are a public figure who does not appreciate even a perfect stranger coming up to them in a in a public place and simply saying, excuse me, I just want to say, I think you're great. I love your work or I like your coat or you're great. I love your work. Or I like your coat. Or you're terrific. Goodbye forever. Or until next time.

And if you keep your interactions that succinct, over time you'll learn how to expand those interactions and become less shy. Now, Chris. Yes. Don't shove your daughter at people. I won't.

I mean, I think you know that Sophie is pretty awesome. I do. And I can appreciate, as a father myself, how incredibly frustrating even the awesomest human children can be. But I think you heard from both Sophie and Eugene Merman that you were the bad actor in this situation, in that it made everyone uncomfortable. Your enthusiasm is understandable, and your desire to help your daughter is commendable. But you know as well as I do, you can only push them so far.

And if it involves actual pushing, you may have gone too far. I think that it is, I think that, you know, your request of that, that I should empower you to compel Sophie to not merely read poetry in a coffee house. Honestly, if you came to this court thinking that I was going to do that, you are so wrong. I would never in a million years compel anyone to go near a coffee house.

It's bad enough they're considering reading poetry aloud, but that's just me. But if you were to think that I could empower you at this point to compel your daughter to do anything, it was also wrongheaded, I'm afraid. Because it is one of the precepts, the founding principles of this fake internet courtroom is people like what they like. They're going to do what they're going to do. The only person you can control in life is yourself. You are struggling, sir, with the transition from Sophie being a child to Sophie being a young adult. Children can be compelled to do things with some success, but Sophie has

matured beyond that at this point and is not only free to find her own way to deal with the world, but has to find her own way. Therefore, I find in favor of Sophie. I'm frankly amazed you ever thought that I might find in your favor, Chris.

I was hoping. I compel you as punishment, as emotional damages, as compensation for emotional damages suffered upon your daughter to read poetry in your coffee house. That was coming. And I look forward to hearing a report, Sophie,

from how your father bears under the strain of that humiliation. Until then, this is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Sophie, how are you feeling here in your moment of triumph? I'm just really excited to hear my father read poetry. Do you think he's going to write original poetry for the purpose? Or think it's just going to be some william carlos williams or something i'm sure he'll find something online some maybe some 1d fan poetry yeah that sounds about right you know i've written some 1d fan poetry this is isabel speaking, by the way.

Sophie, that sounds like it would be the highlight slash lowlight of your entire adolescence to have your father do that before your very eyes. Do you have any other plans for breaking out of your shell on your own time? Not currently. No. What if you run into Zach Galifianakis at the, uh, you know, at the stop and shop? I would go up to him, I think. Yeah. I think you'd be grateful. Zach Galifianakis is a nice guy. Um, speaking of nice guys, there aren't any here. Well, there's Eugene Merman.

Wait a minute. Did you say at the Stop and Shop, Jesse? There's one human monster. Yeah, at the Stop and Shop. Yeah. The only thing I would say is don't go up and talk to Zach when he's selecting melons because he can get a little touchy then. That's a really good point. Otherwise, yeah, definitely. He does.

I mean, he gets his nose in a cantaloupe. Yeah, he's got full concentration going on. He might just freak out and throw a melon at you. Chris, how are you feeling now that you've been publicly shamed and have more public shaming to look forward to? It's kind of what I expected. I mean, I've listened to the podcast. I hope that my pleas would, my case would be understood and I could reverse previous rulings, but I see the error of my ways.

And I'm looking forward to sharing my works with the world at the coffee house coming up in a couple of weeks. When you say there's this like pattern of past rulings, you just mean in the past, the person who's right has won, and that's what you were hoping to reverse? Yes. Well, Chris, Sophie, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thanks, guys.

Thank you. Thanks, guys. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and

enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Thank you. And remember, you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself.

A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman. I don't wanna. I don't wanna do it. No, come on. Judge. I don't. Judge. Judge. I'm fine. I'll do it. No, come on. Judge. I don't. Judge. Judge.

I'm fine. I'll do it from under my blankie. That's good, actually. The acoustics are good in there. I know, right? Because it doesn't echo as much. Yeah. I should have been doing it from under a blankie all the time.

Yeah, this whole time you could have been doing it under a blankie. If you were a voiceover professional like Eugene Merman, you would know about doing it under a blankie. That's a comment on Eugene's professionalism. Yeah, the man's professional. Hey, we've got a couple of cases on the docket. We can clear them out if you like. It's true if you ever see a guy about Eugene's height just walking around Park Slope under a giant fleece blankie. That's Eugene. It could be Garrison Keillor if he's in town. Well, no. Yeah, if you see a really tall guy in a red plaid sleeping bag, that's Garrison Keillor.

Here's a case from Bryce. My friend Paul and I have a long-running dispute During high school, Paul made the decision to give up all meat except for seafood He will not eat chicken, beef, or pork But he continues to eat anything that lives underwater Oh, so he's a pescatarian Yes But Bryce wanted to make sure we understood what he was saying So he explained it in a few different

ways. Despite his choice to eat seafood, he continues to call himself a vegetarian. He says that fish are simply, quote, fish of the sea, unquote, and are not intelligent enough to be considered animals. He's saying that fish, wait, stop. He's saying

fish are fish of the sea? Yeah. And chickens are fish of the sea? Yeah. And chickens are fish of the land? I guess so. Well, let's get to the rest. His logic is flawed. Since I choose not to eat the meat of penguins, am I a vegetarian? Penguins are just penguins of the frozen north. I added that bit to Bryce's letter because it would have made it better. They're simply beak fish that aren't squid.

Paul and I both abstain from eating the meat of certain animals. For him, that's cows, pigs, and chickens. For me, that's penguins. Judge Hodgman, please decree that Paul refrain from calling himself a vegetarian and use the term pescatarian instead. Alternatively, he can insist Paul recognize me as a vegetarian as well, since we are both abstaining from eating a select group of animals. I wish that we had Emily Brewster from Merriam-Webster Dictionary here to read this out loud, but we don't. So I will do my best impersonation of her when i say the term pescatarian dates to 1993 and is defined

by the webster as one whose diet includes fish but no other meat he is this guy is clearly a pescatarian based upon a definition that is 30 count them 30 years old is that right 30, count them, 30 years old. Is that right? 30? 20 years old. 20 years old. Excuse me. I counted them real quick. 20, count them, 20 years old. The Vegetarian Society of Britain,

which initiated popular use of the term vegetarian as early as 1847, according to this Wikipedia page, does not consider pescatarianism to be a vegetarian diet. Obviously, eating only fish is different from vegetarianism. The term pescatarian is useful because it means what it says. An alternate is vegiquarian, but if you use that, I will dislike you. Sorry, Paul.

You're wrong. Next. Here's something from Kristen. Hi, Kristen. My boyfriend of two, she can't say anything back to you because... Okay, because she's very shy? Of course, I understand. Kristen, it's fine.

I understand that you can't see our surroundings because you're under that blanket but okay here's kristin standing right next to you and she's just too shy to speak no she's she's at home cooking dinner for her family or preparing to go to work am i at kristin's house judge hodgman can i just read this letter to you okay my boyfriend of two and a half years is addicted. Hi, Kristen. No. Kristen is not dating a man named Kristen and he is not here.

Okay, read the letter. My boyfriend of two and a half years is addicted to podcasts and it's causing problems. Wait, her boyfriend is two and a half years old? He listens to podcasts constantly, including yours. He listens to podcasts in the shower, while getting dressed, while doing the dishes, and most annoyingly, while we're in bed going to sleep.

I rarely see him without his iPod and one earphone in his ear. When he's not listening to podcasts, he's talking about them. Almost every conversation begins with, So I was listening to the Game of Thrones podcast and... or, So I was listening to the Game of Thrones podcast and or so I was listening to the Cracked podcast and they said it's weird that she chose two non-max fun examples. Yeah, that's interesting. Game of Thrones is a series of novels. Yeah.

What if George R.R. Martin is just podcasting the latest novel in the Song of Ice and Fire? Cracked is a children's magazine from the past. So she's really... It's an ongoing concern, you know, Jesse. Well, it's a revived concern. They relaunched the brand some years ago. Hey, since Kristen... In a different form.

Since Silent Kristen is buzz marketing stuff that we have nothing to do with, can I say that I discovered on the cracked website uh a guy that i've been following on twitter for a while does these videos and i think he's really funny named dan o'brien and he's got this book coming out called how to fight presidents that i think is pretty funny too so there that's what i have to say about him is it like how to fight every different president? Yeah, he's actually gone through and figured out how good a fighter each president was

in history and come up with strategies for defeating them, which I think could come in handy. If you're dealing with ghosts or... I'm talking about fistfights, not assassination attempts. Right.

Anyway, Kristen, go on. He doesn't see an issue with any of this, but when I'm laying in bed with him, I want to feel like I'm having an intimate, relaxing moment. And instead, he's distracted by listening to some podcast, and he doesn't even tell me he's doing it. He sneakily takes out his iPod and sticks one of his earphones in. He's mentioned this podcast multiple times and jokingly told me that if I had a problem with his podcast, I should submit it to this podcast. So I did. First of all, Kristen, you sound a lot like Isabel. That's really weird.

Second of all... Do you think she was doing an isabel impression yeah probably so yeah second of all kristin um i think you're absolutely right when you're lying in bed with your boyfriend you want to feel like you're having an intimate relaxing moment even if you're not you want to feel that way and having your boyfriend with his headphones in ruins the illusion that you like each other. And unless he wants to create the illusion that he has no need for another person in his life, he should take those headphones out and pay attention to the world. Look, I love podcasts too. I love all the electronic stimulation that

comes in my ear, nose, eye, and throat. Very occasionally mouth holes. Right? And it is nice that you are able to take it everywhere you could possibly be. But there are a few places where you should not

have podcasts or internet. And one of them certainly is in bed. This is something I wrestle with every night. So I understand, boyfriend, that it's hard. But seriously, you got to set some limits so that Kristen understands that you want to be around her. Can I suggest one non-bed related thing? Sure. He might consider using a speaker to listen to podcasts rather than a headphone from time to time.

So that it's not a weird thing where she's around and he's cutting her off. Yes. Even in like non... Look, you can get a little Bluetooth speaker. You could plug it into your stereo. You could plug it into your radio if it's got an auxiliary input. And then everyone can enjoy the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Not just you, creepo.

Yeah, you can gather around the old table radio together and enjoy an evening of radio just like in old timey times. But what Jesse is saying is absolutely right and i think you said even better than me jesse radio whether it is actual terrestrial radio or fake internet radio is necessarily a solitary act is an intimate form of entertainment and one that is best often enjoyed by yourself in your office or on a train or in a plane or something else that rhymes with Ayn. And unless you are going to be listening to it in a room on an open speaker,

you should confine your listening to those times when you are by yourself. Shower, fine. Arguably doing the dishes if Kristen's out of the room, fine. But if you're going to be wearing headphones, do it when you are alone, not in bed. Yeah, geez louise. Hey, look, MaxFunCon tickets go on sale

the day after Thanksgiving. That's Friday, Black Friday, MaxFunCon.com. It is a weekend extravaganza in the woods. Look, we don't even announce the lineup until like the spring and it always sells out before then, but I can assure you that I will be there and I can tell you that Judge Hodgman has been there every year so far.

I love it so much. Yeah. I will go anytime that I am invited and I would pay my own money to go. It's a real special thing. So mark your calendar day after Thanksgiving, maxfuncon.com. And Judge Hodgman, you're still on the road doing stand-up dates, correct? Yes, but not for much longer.

As of this broadcast, I have but two, count them, two solo stand-up dates presenting my new comedy show called Judge John Hodgman. No. new comedy show called Judge John Hodgman no, called John Hodgman stars as famous American humorist John Hodgman in John Hodgman Tonight or John Hodgman

Lives or I Stole Your Dad I haven't quite decided what it's going to be called even though I've been doing it for a year now. I'm really proud of the show. It's completely new and terrifying direction for me. So far, everyone's had a lot of fun. I also play a little ukulele, maybe a little Jonathan Richmond and the Modern Lovers, Roadrunner, the official or soon to be official Commonwealth

rock song of Massachusetts. And I'm doing my last two shows of this year and my last two shows that are currently scheduled for the future. And those are in Seattle on November 22nd at the Neptune Theater with former guest expert and my close personal friend, John Roderick of the Long Winters. I will also be performing at the Palace of Fine Arts in San Francisco on November 23rd with friend of the show, amazing podcaster, and incredible comedian Scott Simpson. So I please hope that you will come down and enjoy these shows. Tickets are available via johnhodgman.com slash tour. And then I don't know when I'll be doing it again. So there. This week's show was named by

Luke Seaman thanks Luke Seaman you can name a future episode of the program or just keep up with what we're up to on our Facebook page just like it search for Judge John Hodgman on Facebook you can also follow us

on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman H-O-D-G-M-A-N and remember this podcast You can also follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. H-O-D-G-M-A-N. And remember, this podcast is supported in part by Eagle Heart, Paradise Rising, premiering November 14th at midnight on Adult Swim. It stars Chris Elliott, Maria Thayer, and Brett Gelman. Season 3 follows U.S. Marshal Chris Monsanto on a quest to find his friend, prove his innocence in a ghastly death,

and uncover the shocking truth behind the origins of the U.S. Marshal's service. It starts with Chris's partner dead, the victim of an unfortunate encounter with a wood chipper. Hysterical madness follows. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Okay, bye-bye, Isabel. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com.

You can find John Hodgman online at AreasOfMyExpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfun.org and our Facebook group at Facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.