Judge John Hodgman - The Santa Suit

Episode Date: June 11, 2015

Parents listening with children, know that this case involves Santa Claus! Catch our drift? Andy brings the case against his wife Virginia. Andy wants to share the spirit of Christmas and Santa all year long. Virginia wants to restrict it to the holiday season. Who's right? Who's wrong?

Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle bells. Hey, everyone. It's John Hodgman here of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. And it is Christmas in the summertime here on the podcast because this case involves Santa Claus. And so if you're listening with your children, I remind you that this one involves Santa Claus. Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the Santa Claus. Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, the Santa suit.

Andy brings the case against his wife, Virginia. Andy's a professional Santa and wants to share the spirit of Christmas and Santa all year long. Virginia wants to keep it limited to the holiday season. Who's right? Who's wrong, only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference. Yes, Virginia, Santa Claus does exist. He is as real as fairies, as real as your baby brother's baby rattle.

In fact, if you break that rattle apart, you will find Santa's finger bones and teeth right in there. Take them to a scientist, and they'll tell you. Santa is, or was, real. As real as Virginia, which is to say you. For who is Virginia? A little girl? Yes, but not forever. Eventually you, like all of us, will die. Eventually your fingers and teeth will rattle in the emptiness of all time and history, just like Santa Claus's. Eventually you too will be nothing but a myth, an idea, a hint of innocence that for decades more will inspire us,

give heart to us, move us all to tears, even though you will be dead. Of course Santa Claus exists, and thank God your little baby brother who knows nothing yet of merciless war and merciless time laughs at Santa just as he takes joy at the sound of Santa's bones, his bones, and soon we will laugh at your bones too. Merry Christmas, P.S. God does not exist. Jesse Thorne, swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth,

and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that his own Santa Claus-related beliefs

are truly brutal, as evidenced by past Judge John Hodgman episodes? I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman. Andy in Virginia, you may be seated. First of all, given the nature of this case, I cannot see you, nor you me, I hope, unless you are a psychic. You're invisible to us. All professional Santas are psychic.

Or work during the non-holiday months for the NSA. I cannot see you nor you me. And yet I can already tell you guys are the most adorable litigants we've ever had on this Judge John Hodgkin podcast. That's sweet. Thanks, Your Honor. Bad brothers. They're pretty adorable. But you know what?

We'll see by the end of this. Stay tuned to the very end. For now, justice must be served. One of you must be right. One of you must be wrong. For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can you name the piece of particularly obscure culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Andy, you bring the case before this court. You go first.

Can you guess? Not at all. I have no idea. No, not even a single guess? No. All right. Fair enough. Virginia? Well, it's pretty dark, and I think it's even darker than The Nightmare Before Christmas, but I'll let that be my guess. The Nightmare Before Christmas, directed by Henry Selick, not Tim Burton, who designed

the characters. Great animator, Henry Selick, director of Burton, who designed the characters. Great animator, Henry Selleck, director of Coraline, starring John Hodgman, and the incredible animations of Henry Selleck. But no, that guess, and indeed all guesses are wrong. The answer, and I apologize, this is far too obscure for anyone to have heard of. I apologize. This is far too obscure for anyone to have heard of. It was from a book of humor called More Information Than You Require by Joan Hodgman. I don't know the name. I don't know this author at all. Oh, and this is me. I forgot I wrote books once.

Once upon a time when I was young and childlike. And that was from my Today in the Past section of More Information Than You Require when I talked about great events from the past and then put my own cruel, death-obsessed twist on them. Can I ask you a question?

If something appeared in Today in the Past, does that make it canonical for the purposes of Judge John Hodgman since this podcast feed was once the podcast feed of the Today in the Past podcast?

Yeah, this is just like that dumb snake eating its tail again. Yes, it's all canon. It's all canon in the hot box. But, yeah, so I, of course, was referencing in my joking, in my joke about child death, the famous letter written by a young girl named Virginia to the New York Sun in 1897 is Santa Claus real. And the answer provided to her by Francis P. Church, an editorial writer who wrote the famous Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus

letter. And I was also referencing the fact that Francis Church had been a Civil War correspondent and remained morose and death-obsessed for the rest of his life. And I was surprised that that was not revealed more in his letter back to her. So I decided to correct the record. So there you go. That's a little bit of history for you that arguably a professional Santa impersonator could have caught up on. It's a Santa portrayer, not impersonator. Oh, boy. See what I live with? Thank you.

Yes. That's true. That's true. All right. Fair enough. Santa portrayer. You're the semi-expert. That's right.

So just to be, so that I am clear, Andy, you portray the famous Western mythological figure of Sandy Claus. That's true. During the holiday years. Yes. And do you do this at a department store or a local Masonic temple or something? Or do you just do this on your own?

I do this at – I'm a freelance Santa, and I do also volunteer work with Toys for Tots and Rescue Missions. So it keeps me busy through November and December. What have been your best and worst freelance Santa gigs? The best is probably the one that I do with the USO at Fort Bragg. They bring all their families in and it's a very nice breakfast with Santa time, which was a lot of fun. The worst are the families who will hire me to come in for a family party, and there's only like two kids but a bunch of really inebriated adults. That's usually pretty weird. I don't want to get with Santa. That was a good question. That was a good question, Bailiff Jesse.

And I'm not surprised because Bailiff Jesse always asks good questions because he's the host of a great interview radio show called Bullseye, which everyone should listen to. Guilty as charged. And Andy, you do your freelance clausing in what region of the world? I'm out of Raleigh, North Carolina. Raleigh, North Carolina, part of the Research Triangle. That is true. And the other points are Durham and Chapel Hill? That's right.

I got it right again. So happy about that. I like that area quite a bit. And it needs a Santa Claus. That's what I was saying. I didn't realize they already had one. So I guess that scraps my plan to become the chief Santa portrayer of the Research Triangle. Yeah, you lost out on that one.

And how old are you, sir? I am 56. Oh, a young Santa. Yes, that one. And how old are you, sir? I am 56. Oh, a young Santa. Yes, I am. And how Santa-like are you? Are you rotund? Do you have a belly full of jelly? No, I'm actually in pretty decent shape, but I do have a naturally white long beard. And that's basically all it takes, right? No, it takes the twinkle in the eye and the wonderful personality. Yeah, okay, but you don't need a fat suit, in the eye and the wonderful personality. Yeah, okay. But you don't need a fat suit, I guess is what I'm saying. Actually, I do wear a pillow, a fat

suit pillow, yes. Wait a minute. Are you talking about a fat suit for theatrical use, or are you just shoving a pillow into your hands? It's a professional Santa belly. I am a professional Santa belly. I am glad

to hear it. Virginia, you obviously want this line of questioning to stop. You are obviously made uncomfortable by your husband, correct? Am I correct? Yes. Your husband of how many years? Oh dear, a tough question right out the gate. Andy, what is it? How many years?

31. 31! 31 right out the gate. Andy, what is it? How many years? 31. 31. 31 glorious and memorable years. Wonderful. And it's true. I didn't marry him thinking he'd become a Santa. That was kind of a shock. Took an adjustment. Despite his natural long white beard? Yeah. Did he have it then? Clean, shaven, with a mustache. Sure. And he's a great Santa.

He's got the twinkly blue eyes. He's got the curly white mustache. He's got the fluffy beard. But I really think it needs to stay within the season that it's supposed to be in. And there's some natural overlap

because of the Santa mobile and the preparation. But we just need to contain it. I think we're going to hold you right there, Virginia. Maybe you could give us some insight into the Santa-mobile and how that affects your yearly schedule. I think we just got a really good look into their domestic life that she can say Santa-mobile as though she's saying,

oh, yeah, in the minivan or in the Prius. Virginia, what is the Santamobile? Well, the Santamobile is a red Toyota, and it's not that burgundy shade of red or that orange shade of red. It's a true Santa sleigh red. Candy apple Santa red. Exactly. And the front plate where you can have like a vanity plate

is a picture of jolly Santa Andy. Exactly. And the front plate where you can have like a vanity plate is a picture of Jolly Santa Andy. Okay. And the back plate is Jolly Santa with just the consonants. So you can kind of guess it's either Jolly Santa, Jelly Santa, Jilly Santa. Jelly Sinatra. Exactly. And the kicker is. There's not a single vowel on there?

I don't think there's a single vowel. So it's Jul-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l- Sure. Well, his says NP. North Pole. Exactly. With a sprig of holly. So I think that kind of, yes. Does it have a disembodied red reindeer nose where the hood ornament should be? Please don't give him any ideas. Well, you know, honestly, Andy, if you hadn't already had that idea, then maybe you shouldn't be Santa Claus for the research triangle, because that was the first idea I had. The picture in the front does say, ho, ho, ho. Yeah, yeah.

Why don't you have a light-up red nose on the front of your Santa mobile, Andy? Because I love my wife, and you can only take her so far until she gets crazy. Sounds like there's room for a new Kringle in town, if you ask me. Virginia. Yes. Oh, you ask me. Virginia. Yes. Oh, you did it. Oh, oh. Sorry.

That's against the rules. Oh, wait a minute. Are there rules or are you asking me to enforce rules? Yes, there are the Santa rules. Tell me them. He cannot. Well, one, he can't ho, ho, ho out of season. Tell me them. And I'm sure there are a lot more. Yes. Oh, my goodness. There's also no talking with children or older adults when they come and ask if I'm Santa. Gotcha.

So, Virginia, you're saying that Andy was clean-shaven. You didn't realize you were marrying a Santa when you married him. Is that correct? No, exactly. Exactly. And, Andy, did you realize you were marrying the Grinch? Oh! It's only been the past six years where she's turned completely against Christmas.

What do you think happened in the past six years? I think it's because I've become so popular. Because when Santa walks down the aisles at Walmart, people take notice. And it's like being a Walmart rock star. Yeah. Is that true, Virginia? You're jealous of the attention that Andy is getting at the Walmart? You know, Andy does love attention.

And when you look like Santa, you do get attention. But, you know, if Andy were a leprechaun impersonator, you wouldn't expect him to have red hair and wear green. Excuse me, a leprechaun portrayer. Oh, sorry. Just like Santa Claus, there are no leprechauns to impersonate. But you wouldn't expect a leprechaun portrayer to appear in November. I just think, yes, let's curtail this. You might not expect.

Let's corral this. Right. You might not expect a leprechaun portrayer to appear in November, but maybe in early March before St. Patrick's Day, right? That's reasonable, yes. So what's the reasonable time frame for Santa suiting up, in your opinion, and rule? Well, he does have a lot of business in November with portrait photographers where people bring their children

and get their photos taken. And it's a great time for him to be busy because Santa gigs haven't started yet. So yes, he's got to have a beard by November, but he starts growing the beard so early. I mean, he's got a full Santa beard right now and it's only June. Right. Well, is this a Santa repulsion or a beard repulsion?

I think he has a cute little dimple in his chin, and I don't know if it's still there anymore. Right. And then when you look like Santa, this is in Andy's 56, you have to admit a white beard ages you a tad. So we both look like we're 80 when we walk around together. Right. Jesse, how are we doing on the adorable derby? I am just barely holding my act together over here. I am like, imagine a package.

Yeah. It's wrapped in brown paper. Yeah. And sealed with white glue. Yeah. And then it's thrown into a river. Uh-huh. I am in a river of adorable.

Right. Rolling and bouncing along the rocks. And my white glue is really starting to fade. I have to say, I thought you were going for some sort of Christmas opening a present under a tree metaphor, but it became, I think... It's more of a Stuart Little thing. Yeah, the never-before-seen metaphor for

I am a man wrapped in paper thrown into a river. Yeah. Andy, have you started growing your beard earlier and earlier? Would you say that this corresponds to the period of time that your wife, Virginia, decided that you were starting to get on her nerves? I think so. I usually, well, here's another one of her rules, that on Christmas Eve, the beard has to be cut. The beard has to be cut down so when we go to church on Christmas Eve, kids, don't confuse me with Santa Claus. So it has to be cut very short Christmas Eve.

And after that, I keep it cut short through Valentine's Day, which is an important day for the love of my life. Oh, boy. But from your – but that's a – That's a pretty, so. Can I just interject something? Yeah. Watch out, Bat Brothers.

Virginia, is it true that you want him to shave his beard on Christmas Eve so that he doesn't confuse children at church? I don't quite remember it as he explains it, Your Honor, but I have to admit on Christmas morning, I did grab a jagged pair of scissors and trimmed off a lot of it one time, and it was great. I loved it. It's just nice to see his face. It was like opening a present.

Without the wet river experience. Right. Yes. And when you open the present, it's your husband's head in brown paper soaked in river water. Exactly. Best Christmas ever. Best Christmas ever. So let me understand. Let's just get, let's do the terms and just answer me briefly so that I can understand all the details. One, how long have the rules been in place? the details. One, how long have the rules been in place? Ballpark. I would say after his first year with Santa when I realized there was a need for rules. And when was that? So he's been at

Santa about, what, six years now? Six years. So I'd say we've had the rules for five years and they have. Oh, it's interesting how the six years tends to correspond because, Andy, you said, oh, she never had a problem with it until about six years ago. That's when you started doing it. That's right. She had a problem with it from the day you started. That's correct. All right. Thank you, Your Honor. I'm just clarifying for myself. And, Virginia, you would like – so it started six years ago. You started laying down the rules, and the rules you want to be written into stone.

Yes. In this fake court of internet justice. Yes. A covenant. Is that no wearing red, no ho-ho-hoing, and no smiling in that way. In that way, yes. And no beard, no full beard until November, and then beard goes away December 24th? Or Christmas Day is fine. Or Christmas Day, just at some point you just cut it off with a jagged pair of scissors?

Exactly. All right. So those are the rules that you think should be in place and that you have tried. May I add one more? Okay. I'd like to also not. I'm not giving this to you. I'm just making sure I understand your terms.

I also would like it not to be suggested – I'm not giving this to you. I'm just making sure I understand your terms. I also would like it not to be suggested that I be Mrs. Claus. Andy, are you doing that? I don't do it. A lot of people do it because she's so cute and she would fit that role so well. So it's not me and it also would bring us more money. No, I know that you're paying a lot of people in the research triangle to buzz market the idea of Mrs. Claus to your wife. But you would prefer it if she did it, right? No, I like to do it on my own.

Is it true that married Clauses get more money than a single Santa Claus? Well, Santa is married to Mrs. Claus. But you know what I mean. If you do a joint opinion with a Mrs. Claus, you get a bump for that. Really? Interesting. That's good to know.

Yes, you do. It's a good business. How much more would you make? I would probably almost double it. How much of your annual income does Santa Inc. provide for you? Santa money goes specifically so Virginia and I can travel overseas every year. To the North Pole? Iceland. No, to Europe.

To Europe. Do you ever do any one of those Viking River cruises? Iceland. No, to Europe. To Europe. Yes. Hey, you ever do any one of those Viking River cruises? No, but I'd like to. Yeah, me too. If you guys go, I'll go with you. Oh, great. That'd be fun.

And so it makes a little bit of money. And financially, do you work or are you retired or what's going on? I work a full-time job, yes. What kind of job do you have? I work for the state of North Carolina with social services. Great. And so it's a little extra money on top of your sweet social services state paycheck. It's a good gig.

Yeah. It's a good gig. Yeah. Virginia, do you go on these overseas adventures with your husband? I do. You enjoy them? Oh, my gosh. We have a good gig. Yeah. Virginia, do you go on these overseas adventures with your husband? I do. Do you enjoy them? Oh, my gosh. We have a great time.

Right. So you don't want him to stop bringing home that sweet claws money. No. You just want him to rein it in. Yeah. We're kind of, we're addicted to traveling. It's a lot of fun. We have fun together.

And my money at my second job also goes to help us travel. So the Santa money is nice, but it's not the only thing that supports our travel. Andy, why are Virginia's rules unreasonable, indeed so unreasonable that you are flouting them at this very moment by talking through a full white beard in the middle of June? Not to mention going ho, ho, ho. Yeah, well, that I think he was just trying to get a rise out of her. And it worked. That was purely provocative hoeing. Oh, yeah, that was.

I enjoy portraying Santa Claus. I do not wear red. I do walk through places. And when children do come up to me and ask me if I'm Santa Claus, I never say that I am. I always say, have you been good this year? And they smile, and they're happy. Okay, I say it this way, have you been good this year?

Then they say, what are you doing at Walmart, Santa? Exactly. I have a question. Are you just getting dressed up as Santa and wandering into Walmart on your own? Aren't there rules? Why is Santa wearing a golf hat? I mean, you know, it wouldn't be my choice to wander through Walmart to begin with. But, I mean, people get shot in Walmart for not conforming with regular dress codes and maybe picking up merchandise the wrong way.

I'm going to be nervous you walk in as a full Santa. Don't they have their own Santa? Do you get into Santa turf wars or what? There is some turf wars, and I can't walk into malls during the Christmas time because there's already a Santa in the mall. So is that just game respect game? You're not going to go? It is. Right. Okay. I got mall. So is that just game respect game? You're not going to go? It is.

Right. Okay. I got you. It is. But I enjoy the, I do enjoy the attention. I do enjoy, you know, the performance. It is like being a rock star walking through a crowd and people do look at you like your Santa when you're dressed up as that. The other 10 months of the year, I do not push it. It just looks that way. And my beard has to grow because it is a good six-inch beard by the time that it's Santa time in November. But if you were going to hit Santa time, November 1st, when would you need to start growing the beard from clean shaven, would you say? December 26th you just want to have a big old beard all the time it looks good it's you do you let me ask because this is a a very uh big conflict between my wife and myself, which is that I grew my pale imitation of a beard last year

and I really liked it. And I liked the way I looked and I liked the way it made me feel. But she did not like the way it looked or felt, believe me. And I finally, I shaved it off, but it was a real conflict because this is the thing was like, you know what, this is a part of my body. But it was a real conflict because this is a thing that was like, you know what?

This is a part of my body. And it comes into direct conflict with like how I feel about myself physically and facially and how the most important person in my life feels about it. And who's more important, you know? Sometimes you just got to grow that beard, you know? But it is an immovable object and an unstoppable force because there's no compromise. There's no length of beard for certain people that they would be willing to kiss. And you don't have to kiss yourself. Yeah, boy, believe me.

I don't know that I would – having kissed Zach Galifianakis when we both had mustaches for the great television show Bored to Death, it is not – as Zach said, it was like pushing two brooms together. It was weird. Your Honor. Your Honor, could I mention one thing? Yeah. We have three sons, and they've all had beards, and I think it's all because of Andy's influence, which is wonderful. But now two of them have actually tried curling their mustaches. One wore a curly mustache to prom.

So it is something that does have an influence. And Andy is very handsome without the beard. And I'll be honest, we have another Santa in our church who's much older and he has just started growing his beard as of June 1st. So I don't think Andy has to quite start so soon. Right. I have a couple things to respond to there. Regarding your sons curling their mustaches.

This is the year is 2015. Yes. This is what's happening with men. Your sons are just being a part of society. And if you knew what I looked like, you'd know I would side with men. Your sons are just being a part of society. And if you knew what I looked like, you'd know I would side with them. Are you curly mustache-y? Totally.

Second of all, second of all, you have another Santa in your church that Andy's trying to kick out? He's old. Wow. Okay, there's such a thing that I've told Andy he could never be. When you get to where you're Santa driving in a rascal and having liver spots, you've got to hang it up. The great thing about Andy is that he does look so young.

But yes, liver spot Santas are something that I'm just not too fond of. I love this bouillabaisse of things that's going on here in this. First of all, there's this ageism and luxism about this other Santa. Oh, dear. Within the context of a mythological person who is defined by his age and morbid obesity. And not to mention the ableism, right? Yeah. This rascal situation.

Oh, dear. The best is, my favorite part is that this conflict is taking place in a church. This conflict over who can best portray this pagan god. Oh, dear. And it's me. Now, Andy, are you really good at it? Oh, yes. Am I good at. Now, Andy, are you really good at it? Oh, yes. Am I good at being a Santa?

I'm the best. Now, when you're hired to do Santa, what percentage of your Santa cosplaying is paying jobs, and what percentage is you sort of Batman style just putting on the uniform and going on patrol? I never put on the uniform and go on patrol because that would be too confusing to children. But I do volunteer work, which is free out of my own time, which I enjoy.

But it's always organized. It's not you just wandering into Walmart in the costume. It's always organized. That's right. So you actually have kids. Do you do lap sitting? Yes. Yes, we do.

Here's the thing that I would imagine is the hardest thing a Santa has to do is to listen to the child's Christmas gift wish and know that it is never going to happen. Yes. Yes, a lot of times when the child is telling you what they want, you're sort of looking over at the parent and they're giving you the nod yes or the nod no. And if you get the nod no, how do you gently deal with that situation? And you usually will say, well, that's a very nice present, but you know what? Santa loves to bring surprises, so just look for a surprise from Santa. That's good. Here, let's do a little role play. Say my name is John Hodgman and I have a series of almanacs of fake trivia that were published on paper some years ago and are available on iBooks in a fixed format.

But I really hope someday we'll be available on Kindle and iBooks for matter, in a non-fixed format so that people can change the size of the font. But of course, it's always been impossible because Sam Potts and I came up with the most confusing design scheme ever, and it just doesn't seem to work. So now I'm sitting on your lap, and I say, Santa, my Christmas wish is that there will be a Kindle edition with scalable text of my books, the areas of my expertise, more information than you require, and that is all. Will I get it this year? Well, that's a really interesting thing, John,

and I'm sure that you'd really want that with all your heart, but we'll just see, you know? We'll have to be hopeful for things like that, and I'll bring you a nice surprise because you've been such a good boy this year. Do you always patronize the children, or do you just patronize Judge John Hodgman? No, I patronize children, too. Wah! Wah! Wah! Wah!

Next. Did you just say next? Yeah, you're good at your job. Yeah, you're good at your job. Andy, let me understand what the psychology here is for you. You already have a full white beard. You would prefer to keep a full white beard all the time. Yes.

Do you want the full white beard because you love it or do you want the full white beard because you want to sneak out of the house and do a little Santa-ing in the off hours? Santa-ing the off hours wouldn't be too bad. Now, you guys both have a good sense of humor, but I'm asking you a serious question. Do you want to keep a full white beard all year long because you love that white beard or because you want to be available to Santa when the mood strikes you? No, I like the full white beard. Mm-hmm. And Virginia, with regard to this beard, do you want that beard to go away because it reminds you of this repulsive character of Santa? Or do you want the beard to go away because you just don't like the way he looks and feels when he's around you with that full white beard? I love the white beard at the time of year it's supposed to be there. But at the other times of year, I'd like just to see Andy,

because it's hard not to look at Andy with the big beard and not think Santa. Right. How do you feel about being romantic with Santa? He's a pretty hot potato. Yeah. That boy. You sure you don't want to be Mrs. Claus? Well, one, she doesn't even have a first name.

Two, she's like a glorified elf. She's really a kid wrangler. And three, you wouldn't get to sit down beside Santa, so I'd be on my feet the whole time. He's a better Santa. He's a former Montessori teacher, and he knows sign language. He used to teach hearing-impaired children. So he is fabulous. He knows sign language.

He used to teach hearing impaired children. So he is fabulous. But yes, it does kind of, it kind of slides out and infiltrates everywhere. What's gross about Santa in October? Oh. Hold on. That's a long list. I need to hear again this sound of Santa sliding out and infiltrating everything.

Oh, dear. Andy, can I hear it again? Can I hear it again? That wasn't me. That was Virginia. Oh, wow. He's stealth Santa. Well, here's a creepy Santa thing to me.

I never grew up with this as a kid, but when we were in London, we went to one of these open-air markets, and Andy had to find an old Victorian key. And on his big belt that has a Santa belt buckle that's brass and says Santa on it hangs this key. So if you don't have a chimney, Andy can use this old wrought iron key to get inside your house. It's a magic key. A magic key. It's a magic key. A magic key. It's a creepy key. I'm really into Santa having a belt buckle with his name on it like an early 2000s rapper. That's what it looks like.

Oh, my gosh. Are you in a Santa rodeo? Are you adding anything else to the Santa mythos of your own invention, Andy? No, that's actually a part of the whole persona, yes. But is that the magic key? I've never heard that before. I mean, I feel like I've heard them all. I've heard of Sinterklaas and Zwarte Pieter in the Netherlands and Krampus in Austria.

Virginia, instead of being Mrs. Claus, Virginia should be Krampus. Oh, yeah. How about that? We know Krampus. You know a Kr How about that? We know Krampus. You know a Krampus already? Is that what you said? We know of Krampus. Oh, you know of Krampus.

Yeah, Virginia. I think you were born for the part of the punitive demon. This sounds slightly insulting. Who hits children with sticks if they've with sticks. Oh, I'm getting— If they've been bad. Okay, I'm getting Mr. President. Take that, curly mustache son. Krampus has spoken.

No, I'm the sweetie bug. He's a slithy tove. You've got it turned around. I'm the sugar bee. Andy. Yes. I'm sitting on your lap, and I say—and I'm a child. And I say, are you— Oh I say, are you the real Santa?

Easy, Jesse. This is serious. I want to hear how Andy deals with questions of faith. If a child asks me if I'm the real Santa, I usually say yes. They love to tug on the beard. You know about this court's opinion on direct questions about Santa, right? But what other Santa is around at that time? Yes, I'm the real Santa sitting right there. You are a slithy tove.

What if a child sits on your lap and asks you, who's the sugar bee? And I would have to say that's Mrs. Claus and she's at home right now. All right. I think I think I think the I think we have to we have to clear the courtroom to vent the adorableness out of it before we can continue. I'm going to take this moment to go into my chamber's workshop and figure out my decision. I'll be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Andy, how do you feel about your chances here? I'm always feeling very confident. I mean, who's not going to love Santa and side with Santa? Is that part of your Montessori training? and side with Santa.

Is that part of your Montessori training? Yes, it is. Virginia, how are you feeling? Well, this sounds cruel, but I'm kind of hoping that Santa stiffed John Hodgman somewhere back in his childhood so he's got some underlying hostility towards Santa as a whole. He'll side with me.

Yeah, that's pretty reasonable. That's reasonable. That's not too strange, is it? No, it's perfectly normal. Completely understandable. We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this when we come back in just a minute. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne.

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Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman, spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom. So as we are recording this, it is the middle of June. Andy has a full white beard. Jesse. Andy has a full white beard.

Jesse Thorne has a full brown beard. I have a curly mustache. But in just a few days, Jesse and I and a bunch of other nice people are going to be going up the mountain for our own holiday pageant called Max Fun Con. And then when we come down the mountain, I, of course, am going to start putting up my Christmas decorations, because it's getting earlier every year. It used to be Thanksgiving, then it was Halloween, then Fourth of July, now it's Max Fun Con. Everyone's got to put up their candy canes and their lights. And so in that sense, Andy is absolutely correct that he should be preparing for Santa all the year round. Keep Christmas in your heart and a big old beard on your face all the year round.

And that's correct. No, I was lying. That's incorrect. You see, I was being sarcastic. I was being cynical. Yeah, ho, ho, ho. There you go. Right.

Oh, that's terrible. I know. Well, you're tricking children all day long come November and December. You think I can't mislead Santa? I can do it. There's a new Kringle in town. The fact is you seem to both be adorable people and I'm quite certain that you make an adorable Santa Claus and a successful Santa Claus, one who brings joy and pleasure and magic to children, while also reassurance that the holiday time, whatever

holiday you observe at the end of the year or any time, is not just about getting new, what do you call them there? Micronauts, right? Is that what you call them? Gobots? Whatever they are. Whatever the thing is the kids want these days. I'm pretty sure it's Micronauts. I do take issue, Andy, you know, as this court always has by answering direct yes or no questions about is Santa real by saying yes, because that is a lie to a child. I would encourage you to come up with a artful and equally evasive explanation as Francis Church came up for the Virginia in his life where Santa was a metaphor for good feeling. Even something along like, well, I'm one of Santa's helpers. That's something I would prefer. But look, it's not your job. You have your own style of Santa-ing. And once you kick that liver spot

Santa off his rascal and become King Santa of Raleigh-Durham, then you will be the boss of Santa all the holiday Yuletide season long. However, I think that there is something, I think that there is something – there's a certain kind of uncanny valley repulsion to Santa you start seeing signs of the season showing up all around town in October, September, even all the way into June on your favorite podcasts. And I think that there's something, something becomes unmagical about a dude who looks like Santa when he's walking around the Walmart in the middle of July. There's something very magical about what you do, and I respect it, and I think that

Virginia does as well. And I also appreciate that you enjoy having the full white beard, and you like the way it looks and feels. But when a spouse doesn't like facial hair, you have to take that seriously, A. B, it seems impossible to untie your full white beard from your Santa identity. And C, I think that when you go into that church on Christmas Eve, it is legitimate to – it is a legitimate goal to not confuse children by showing up as Santa for a Christmas Eve service. I don't know what denomination I presume of Christianity that you guys worship in. May I ask? Presbyterian.

Presbyterian. Yeah. Christianity that you guys worship in, may I ask? Presbyterian. Presbyterian, yeah. The point is Santa, as Jesse pointed out, is a pre-Christian pagan druid god. And if you're going in to celebrate Christmas on New Year's Eve, you don't want to have competing mythologies there. You want to give each one its chance. And I say that with great respect for your faith. And so I think that Virginia's rules are pretty gracious,

pretty inclusive, and pretty reasonable for a woman who must live with both Santa and her husband. And so I'm going to enforce all but one of them. Yeah. Here is the exception. You said no Santa-ing, you said no Santa-style ho-ho-ho-ing out of season, which season would be November 1st to December 24th. Yes. I'm going to say that that's okay, but an occasional, I mean, you're right, but an occasional

slippage into ho-ho-hoing is perfectly natural. There we go. You said no beard. You can only begin growing the beard in anticipation of a full beard November 1st. Yes. And it has to be shaved on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day. I say Christmas Eve is correct. I like that tradition.

And whether or not you shave it, it doesn't matter to me because at that point, Santa is giving way to the other great story of Christmas, which is the birth of Jesus, and that deserves some reverence, particularly if you are a person of faith, because it's an interesting story at the very least. With regard to dressing red, that's a little bit harder to enforce. Like when does something red become too Santa-like? I think when it comes to dressing up like Santa, it's as the Supreme Court said, it's like pornography. You know it when you see it. So, you know, I think, Andy, you know to watch your step in that regard and you already do.

But then there was the one, Virginia, where you said sometimes he smiles too much like Santa. He can't do that smile. And I can't, in good conscience, in a fake court of internet justice, with two adorable people on the line, enforce an anti-smiling ordinance. Andy, you bring enough smiles to everyone's life. You can smile any way you damn well please. All right. It is best made ritually and occasionally. And that occasion, of course, being the holiday time. Otherwise, you should get a curly mustache like your son's and then see what happens. So those are my orders on the whole.

And on balance, I find in favor of Virginia. This is the sound of a gavel. Ho, ho, ho. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Virginia, you got almost everything you wanted. How do you feel? I'm in shock. You know, Santa's got such a mesmerizing personality. I was afraid that the judge might be swayed, but I'm relieved that he agrees about the beard and I'll let a ho-ho-ho slip occasionally. And I feel a little chastised

about the smile. He's right. Andy should smile any way he wants to. Right, honey? Right. Whoa, not that jolly anymore. Oh, no. Santa's got a grudge. Hodgman family's going to be seeing a lot of coal this year. Oh, no threats. That's not nice.

Well, you know, we do not believe in Santa in my household. And besides, what if I come down? I already, I could be, you know, I could be weird dad hipster Santa come down with my curly mustache. The Hodgman family is Krampus only. Krampus only.

Please. Andy, Virginia, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It was a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. It's been a delight. I appreciate it.

Y'all take care. And to all a good night. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie,

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