Judge John Hodgman - The Split Screen Decision

Episode Date: September 6, 2012

Raj brings the case against his girlfriend Surita, claiming her high-falutin' taste in movies is getting in the way of their shared enjoyment in entertainment.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest bailiff Monty Belmonte from 93.9 The River, WRSI in Northampton, Massachusetts, in for Jesse Thorne. The case? Split screen decision. Raj brings the case. He and his girlfriend Sarita enjoy watching movies and TV together. Sarita is an aspiring filmmaker who often suggests classic or arthouse films for their time together. Raj says her picks might be classic, but that doesn't always mean they're enjoyable. Who should direct their viewing? Only one man can decide. Please rise as the Honorable Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. The important thing is that because you are both wrong and because you are both right, and because I want this experiment to last,

I sentence you both to watch the third man this Sunday, no questions asked, as soon as you are sworn in by Monty Bailiff Belmonte. Raj and Sarita, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, or maybe you can't handle the truth? Jack Nicholson, A Few Good Men, American Film Institute, 29th most memorable movie quote of all time. Can you handle the truth? I can. I can handle the truth.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling? Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life? At least this weekend, yeah. We already have watched The Third Man, but okay. Which I made him watch. But yes. Thank you both. Judge John Hodgman, you may proceed.

Hello, Raj and Sarita. Who brings this case before this court, please? I do, Raj. OK, Raj. And who is fiddling with their empty Diet Coke drink cup? Guilty. All right. That would be our extra special secret guest expert witness, Mr. John Darnielle of the Mountain Goats.

We had such fun with him last week when he had a reason to be here. him last week when he had a reason to be here. We decided we would allow him to come in and opine as a guest witness this week, where he, I think, equally has reason, because John, you like movies, right? I do. I worry that I have an ill bias on this one, because I like mainly movies that most people think of as pretty bad. Okay, fantastic. Then we're off to the races, which is an old Marx Brothers movie.

Not actually. Not actually. Then it's a day at the races, which is an old Marx Brothers movie. Not actually. Not actually. Then it's a day at the races for all of us. So now, Raj and Sarita, for an immediate summary judgment in your favor, can you name the specific piece of popular culture that I was paraphrasing as I entered the courtroom? I cannot, no. No, I can't. No, you cannot. This is perhaps the most meta pop culture reference

we have made so far on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I was paraphrasing Judge John Hodgman. Oh. Verdict number 17, named Parents Just Don't Understand, going way back into the vault when I heard the case between a father and his daughter and the daughter being mad that her dad was trying to force her to watch

all these classic movies all the time instead of letting her just do her homework, which is what she claimed to prefer to do instead. And I said that she should shut up, daughter, and enjoy this time with your dad before you become an adult and watch all the movies that he wants you to watch after you have seen the movie that everyone should see, The Third Man. Am I right, Sarita? Yes. Okay. So obviously you and I agree. Am I right, Sarita? Yes. Okay, so obviously you and I agree. What is wrong with your relationship?

Well, a lot of the movies that I get him to watch aren't even arthouse, really. I think that he might enjoy them, but for whatever reason or other, the only one that he actually did like was The Third Man, ironically. And that's the one I didn't think he would like, but yeah, which I showed that to him because i was but the other ones i just thought that they would you know they would

appeal to his sensibility and he might like them but he didn't so raj you're bringing this complaint because you think that your girlfriend um who obviously has very good taste in movies is making you watch good movies and you hate that watching Watching movies that are supposed to be good. Alright, go on. They're not necessarily movies that I would like. They're just movies that she feels are supposed to be good. Maybe they got a bunch of awards or maybe they were

nominated for Oscars and that sort of thing. Maybe they got a bunch of awards and people like them a lot. People I don't know and don't like. Maybe they're just exemplars of the cinematic art, but I mean, are they Porky's 3? Exactly. Exactly. That's exactly my point.

You like those Porky's movies? Oh, yeah. They're Canadian. So am I, so I can't complain. All right, Raj. What other terrible Canadian 80s raunch movies do you enjoy? Meatballs? That's a good movie.

I've got a very visceral taste in movies. I just enjoy movies for, you know, a fun ride. I'm not necessarily looking for like... Oh, I hate that. Interesting dialogue and emotion. I know that I'm supposed to be impartial here, but I have to say

you have just hit upon one of the court's greatest pet peeves. People who say I'm just look when I go to the movies, I'm supposed to be impartial here, but I have to say you have just hit upon one of the court's greatest pet peeves. People who say, I'm just look when I go to the movies, I'm just looking for a fun ride. You know why I hate that, Raj? Why? There are things in life called fun rides. They exist at amusement parks. You go on them and they're fun. I don't need you don't need to go to a movie to have a fun ride. You go on a fun ride to have a fun ride.

A movie can provide, of course, a fun ride. But I think that it has an obligation to provide something more because it can't add what a fun ride can add, which is animatronic birds singing songs and, you know, loop-de-loops and, you know, other people screaming and pouring soda on you. Sure. I mean, a movie can be more than that. But if I feel like it's and, you know, other people screaming and pouring soda on you. Sure. I mean, a movie can be more than that. But if I feel like it's just, you know, people talking about their problems, it gets kind of boring for me. It's not, though. I've shown him movies that I thought... I will have order. I will have order. I will have order. I will have order.

Sarita, is that true? I've shown him movies that I thought that he would consider a fun ride, and he didn't like them for whatever reason or other. All right, what were the movies that you picked as a fun ride for Raj? True Romance. Okay. Raj, what's the problem there? I felt it was dated and not too much happened. Oh, sure.

Right, Porky's Three. Got it. Dated. Sorry about that. A little dated, wasn't it? Okay, go on. What is another one you showed him that you should have liked but didn't? Romancing the

Stone. Romancing the Stone. What about that, Raj? That is basically an amusement park ride of a movie. I enjoyed parts of the movie, but the movie as a whole I didn't find interesting. I liked the parts where I was going up, and then I was going down, and then I was going up. Then after a while,

Kathleen Turner said words. I was like, this takes me out of the moment. Alright, what else? I had a few good scenes that I liked. Let's go to it. Alright. I wouldn't watch it again. Okay. You know what? Probably I wouldn't either. Go on. Another one? Yeah. American Werewolf in London.

Yeah. You're really picking some of the sort of the respectable ones, Sarita. the respectable thrill rides, right? Yes, that's what I was trying. Yeah, how come? Why is it important to be respectable? Well, there are ones that I liked. I mean, Romancing the Stone was from my childhood and I have fond memories and it was always a lot of fun for me and I thought it was funny. Yeah.

True romance, I thought he would just enjoy, you know,, yes, they're fun rides, but they're also quality. So you get something out of it. Don't you have, is there any garbage that you like? Pure garbage? No, she doesn't like movies that are garbage. She has to have awards. It has to have nominations, at least. Well, wait a minute.

Wait a minute. Are you just mad? Yes. And angry because your girlfriend has taste? I'm so mad that my girlfriend only likes good things. Or are you saying

that she's, are you saying, sir, that she is shallow in the sense that she only likes movies if they have been vetted and approved by some Frenchmen in Cannes, etc. Which is it? Hold on one moment.

I'm getting a Skype error here. There's a problem with this call. Hold on while they try to get the call back. Is anybody else on the line? I'm here. Raj, are you there? Okay, the problem seems to be with Raj. John Darnielle, are you there?

I am still here. I'm calling Raj back. While we're waiting for Raj to reconnect, let's turn it over to John Darnielle, are you there? I am still here. I'm calling Raj back. While we're waiting for Raj to reconnect, let's turn it over to John Darnielle with Bad Movie Minute. John? So I'd like to say that not a lot of people know this,

but apparently an editor at Wikipedia does. The original Silent Night, Deadly Night Part 2, my personal favorite of the Silent Night, Deadly Night series. The filmmakers, according to Wikipedia here, say they were paid a dismal amount of money to make the film. Originally, they say, they were told to re-edit the first film

and pass it off as a sequel. The director said he insisted that a new film be shot, though he did not have the budget to create an entirely new story. The director on the commentary track claims they tried to find Eric Freeman to participate for the commentary track, but the director claims he is untraceable.

Freeman's current whereabouts remain a mystery. This, I consider, this sort of backstory is to me the standard of whether a film is worth watching or not. I think this is another case for the urbane mustachioed detective Judge John Budman to take a quick absinthe bath and go on

the hunt to find out. Now, Raj, this is a director that you would hate, right? Because this is the guy who's like, they're like, you just take this money and recut the first movie and call it Silent Night, Deadly Night 2. But he was like, no,

I have standards. I want to make a second film. I've got to admit, if I was that director, I probably would have taken the money. You probably would have just taken the money, right? And just like said, you know what? Why work? Yeah, exactly. Okay.

I would have considered the sequel a mashup of the original. By the way, John Darnielle, thanks for pinch hitting with yet another one of your secret podcasts within my podcast. Sorry. No, I'm very happy about it. Raj, what is your favorite movie? Crank 2 High Voltage. Wow. Yeah.

All right. Second favorite. Crank 1. Lower Voltage. Wild applause over here. Second favorite, I like The Sting. The Sting. Oh, all right.

Curveball. I don't believe it for a second, by the way. It's true. I think you spoke your heart with crank two high voltage immediately felt all of us take three steps back from our microphones in utter disbelief and you're like i gotta i gotta get these i gotta get these people back i gotta come up with something what's a what's a movie that humans like the sting jackie gleason the great one no that was sting, that was Sting 2.

I have two questions for you and I want you to answer truthfully. Why do you like Crank 2 High Voltage? Why is it better than Crank 1? Commonly referred to as Crank. Crank. The thing I like about Crank 2 High Voltage is that the filmmakers clearly just abandon all hopes

of being serious in any attempt at a plot and just say, we want to shoot this scene, we want it to be crazy. clearly just abandon all hopes of being serious in any attempt at a plot and just say, we want to shoot this scene. Wouldn't it be crazy? And it's just pure entertainment. It's, you don't have to think about why things are happening.

It's just fun. It does sound like you're kind of, you're kind of picturing. It's like, they were like, why have a story? Why have anything believable? Let's just shoot some crazy...

Well, that's why I like it better than the first one. Because the first one... They tried a little bit to be believable. They tried a little bit to have a storyline. And the sequel, they're just like, you know what? We don't need that anymore. Let's have a chase scene. Did you watch Crank to High Voltage with Sarita?

No, she would not tolerate that movie at all. Well, wait a minute. You're looking at movies that she's recommending to you. Why don't you look at movies that... Why doesn't she watch movies that you recommend to her? I do. I show her movies all the time, and usually when I show her a movie, she loves it and does some research on

it and is thrilled to see that it got all these awards. Examples would be, say shawn of the dead it's one of my favorite movies i showed her that and she loved it um attack the block a lot of british movies there but uh-huh well because they have those highfalutin accents it's like it's basically public television there's no wonder she likes it when we watch movies together and it's a movie that i've picked usually she loves it would you agree that that's true sarita sometimes i don't always love everything he shows me you would not use the word usually i would usually i do but there have been some stinkers

well look john darneel since you're since you're here let's just go through yeah uh what were the movies uh uh american werewolf in london a plus a plus okay let's go through the ones that we already discussed and then we'll move on okay american werewolf in london there is romancing the stone romancing the stone john never seen it okay true romance but i will say it has an eddie grant song in it so probably a minus at the very lowest. Right. There you go. It has one of the two Eddie Grant songs. All right, go on. Oh, True Romance. True Romance, John?

I haven't seen it. All right, interesting. Go on, give me some more that you showed to him that he rejected. That he rejected. He did not like Peter Brooks' Mahabharata. He did not like that at all. Good choice. Next. He didn't like Little Miss

Sunshine. I like that movie. John Darnielle, what do you think? I feel like I saw that one on a plane. Yeah, that's probably true. Well, here's the thing. My long-standing criterion for whether I'm going to see a movie or not involves whether it has a guy in a hockey mask trying to stab teenagers.

If it doesn't, the likelihood that I saw it decreases exponentially. The question that I posed to Raj, which made him so angry that he stormed off and crashed his own computer was a provocative question. And I'll now put it to you. Is Raj angry because you have good taste? Or is he correct that you like movies because they have won awards and have a certain pedigree? Is that more meaningful to you than the movie itself? No, it's not. Okay. Raj?

Yes. Is Sarita telling the truth? I don't think so. Okay. What do you think the truth is? Well, when I show her movies that she's never heard of, and she'll end up loving them. Obviously not all the time time but pretty often like say

shawn of the dead it's pretty good shawn of the dead do you love that movie serena i do okay but then she always has to look up like what awards it's won and stuff like that that does become important in like how she thinks of the movie is that true serena no it's not i researched the movie because i'm interested in it and then if it happens to win awards, I find that intriguing. But it's mostly I'm looking up who's in it, who made it, the background, the production. Because you know the movie that wins best picture at the Academy Awards every year is really the best movie, right, of that year. I mean, that's obvious, right? I don't recommend a movie that hasn't won a bunch of awards.

That's not true. Every movie actually recommends. right of that year i mean that's obvious right a movie that hasn't won a bunch of awards every movie recommends this is a battle between the old criticism and the new criticism in uh in english that you used to in the tradition of of british schooling when you learn about a poet or a writer you'd have to learn who his parents were and how much money he had and where he came from and where he was coming from before he reads things and then all these critics come along in the 50s and say no we only care about what's actually on the page. And we don't even care who wrote it or what he's all about. We only care about the text. Right. That's the crank to school of criticism.

Exactly. So I think when that school came along of thought, people started overdoing it and saying, not only does that not inform whether I like it, I don't want to know any of that stuff. And I think that's an overreaction because some of that stuff can be fun, you know, to know where the director's coming from or who liked it and why they liked it. You know, that kind of stuff can make the experience of watching the movie more fun. It doesn't have to. Yeah, it is true that the movies that Sarita sort of picked, both for Raj to watch and also to highlight as exemplars of her taste in this podcast, even American Werewolf in London, that is a pedigreed movie. That has been around for a long time. It was made by John Landis.

It featured groundbreaking creature effects. Yes. It featured groundbreaking creature effects. Yes. And sort of ushered in, and it was a respectable horror movie, and ushered in a sort of new realm of A-list Hollywood horror movies. And a bravura performance by Griffin Dunn, just as. Does he ever offer any other kind?

You don't laugh. I love Griffin. No, I do too. you don't laugh i love when was the last time i mean i'm one of those people who has you know i will i will put my total viewings of after hours next to anybody well that's what i was just going to ask uh uh sarita raj have you seen after hours no but i've heard of it and i do want to watch it yeah well no it was made by a very famous filmmaker martin scorsese so i'm not surprised you've heard of it raj no? Nope, never heard of it. You've never heard of it? Of course not, because it does not star Jason Statham. I think we may have found John Arneal, the third man.

Yeah, of this conversation. Of this reprise of Verdict No. 17. This is the peacemaker because, well, After Hours. John, will you describe this movie? After Hours is about a guy who has a bad night in Soho in New York, a legendarily bad night. it's really, it's kind of a masterpiece.

I feel like it's Scorsese's first attempted comedy. Is that right? I wouldn't judge to say because I'm not sure it's that hilarious. I think the attempts at comedy in it, well, there is one really funny moment. I laugh a lot at that movie, but then again. Where he's trying, so the guy gets stuck. So Griffin Dunn follows a girl downtown and his money flies out of the taxi window because of the incredible winds that existed in New York City in the late 80s.

At that time, yeah. And so he's stuck downtown and he's trying to get home, which is uptown. And he goes down to the subway and he finds that the fare has been increased from, you know, at that point it was like a dollar to a dollar five or something. At midnight that night. At midnight that night. At midnight that night. And he says to the guy, can't you just sell me a token? It's five minutes ago. It just went up.

Can't you just sell me a token for $1? It's all I have. And he goes, no. And Griffin Dunn goes, why can't you? Who will ever know? And the token booth guy goes, I could go to a party and get drunk and start talking. That's so good. That's so good. booth guy goes i could go to a party and get drunk start talking and for you sarita it is uh it not only has a cinematic pedigree and is beautifully shot and obviously uh directed by martin scorsese and involves a rare non-marijuana inflected performance

by Cheech and Chong. Right. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? This is the ultimate equalizer for you dudes. But it is also a piece of cinema and human history because it recounts a time in New York City where if you had $20 that flew out of the window

of your cab, you could not get home. Except by walking, which apparently Griffin Dunn refused to do. At any point, he could have just turned north and started walking. It never crosses his mind. Right. But there were no ATMs. There were no debit cards. And the Soho of this world is this sort of lawless world.

Bohemian. Lawless and bohemian. Exactly so. So there's an undercurrent of menace and violence and then also this undercurrent of like, yeah, we can rent 5,000 square feet for a dollar. Make sculpture. It's a lost. Yeah. It's a picture of a lost time.

So I think that this may have already been – this whole judgment may have been resolved by that one amazing movie reference that you made, John Darnielle. Thank you very much. I think those of us who really – like we're really moved by that that movie the first time we saw it, it's a touchstone. Because it wasn't a hugely successful movie. But I think everybody who saw it and loved it sort of became quietly evangelical about it. So it's got that esoteric appeal for you, Sarita, and the everyman crank to appeal for you Raj and I bet you there's a way where you could actually you know with today's video editing software and I'm not asking you to break any laws but for your own private enjoyment you could probably break down after hours and take out all

the plot Sarita I would like you to explain to Raj why his favorite movie should not be Crank 2 High Voltage. I think that your favorite movie should be something that moved you emotionally or changed your perception somehow, as opposed to just mindless, mind-numbing entertainment. That's why Crank 2 should not be your favorite movie. I get that you appreciate the non-pretensions of the filmmakers, but I don't know. I get the feeling that they weren't really, they didn't really have that mindset when they were making it. They probably just were looking for, yeah,

to please crowds and get money. And Sarita, you're a movie maker, right? Yes. What kind of movies do you make? Right now I'm in the process. Right now I'm working on Crank 5. Yes, I'm working on Crank 5 right now. We're adding a parkour element to it.

So it's a little bit dated, I realize. But what are you working on now? I'm working on several writing projects. I'm writing a feature with a producer and a director, and I'm writing some of my own features. I'm working on a few shorts of my own as well, and a web series. Are you primarily a screenwriter, or do you also direct movies? I'm a screenwriter. I will only direct my own stuff.

What is your favorite movie? My favorite movie? It's a cross between... No crosses. No crosses. Here we go. Uh-oh. Unless you're pitching me a movie that you're going to make.

Yeah, it's a cross between Crank 5 and After Hours. Babette's Feast. Babette's Feast. Yes. Boy, oh boy. You know, here's the thing. I like good movies, Sarita. I'm with you on this.

I used to work at the Coolidge Corner, what we called then Movie House. It's now called Coolidge Corner Theater and Coolidge Corner, Brookline, Massachusetts. Which showed only repertory, old, and artsy films. And I saw a lot of amazing movies there because I got to see them for free and I saw Le Souffle Coeur

what else did I see? I saw Chocolat what else did I see? Crazy I saw all the Marx Brothers movies I saw Woody Allen movies I saw all the Woody Allen movies when I was seven years old so my mind was warped we showed that Babette's Feast I saw all the Woody Allen movies when I was seven years old, so my mind was warped. Right?

We showed that Babette's Feast. I must have had 500 opportunities to see that for free. I could not bring myself to see that movie. Really? Why? Is that a good movie? Is that really good? Should I see it?

I like it. I think you should. You like it? It's your favorite. Yes, it's my favorite. You've got to convince me of this. Because it shows how earthly pleasures like food can also be spiritual pleasures. And I thought that was, but I did it in a really, just a really kind of sweet and touching way. And it's Danish or something?

Yes, Danish and French. And it's about somebody dies and she holds a feast. It's like a funeral thing, right? No And it's about somebody dies And she holds a feast It's like a funeral thing, right? No, it's not It's about a cook Who works for these two puritanical women And she wins the lottery

And she decides to go back to live in Paris Oh, okay She says, I'll make you guys a really beautiful meal As a thank you for taking me in. And they don't want to do it because it's against their religion, but they can't turn down such a nice gesture. And then she gets injected with an experimental drug and she has ten days to live until she murders an ape or something? Yes. And then she goes to join—

Right. And she becomes an ultimate fighter of some kind? She becomes like a kickboxer? She joins Jason Statham on an ultimate ride, yes. Yeah. I mean, you're really twisting the knife on Raj with this one by saying Babette. Honestly, if he's a crank too and you're at Babette's feast, I don't know. What do you have in common, guys? There's a total meeting point, though, with Motel Hell. Have you ever seen that one?

Look, Griffin Dunn. There's all kinds of movies. This isn't Doug Love's movies, okay? This is not that. But I actually have never seen Motel Hell, but I remember that poster very much. Yeah, it's about some people who own a hotel and they make sausage out of the guests. Yeah. So it's like, you know.

Oh. But what do you guys, what do you, you know, now the judgment is like, do I force these people to watch after hours? The question now is whether I force you guys to stop seeing each other. Well, that's the thing. There's all kinds of movies we enjoy watching together most of the ones i pick for us to watch together she really yeah but i don't believe that for a second like she's just she's just being nice all right sarita you're just being nice right um actually no he has showed me a couple movies which i've added to my top 10 list all right what are those? Give me one. Spirited Away. Yeah.

Now, wait a minute, Raj. Spirited Away? That is not a Jason Statham movie. It's a fun experience, though. Stop it. Stop it. You're lying. You're lying. You're lying. If you had told me Akira in the Japanese anime world then I would say yes

that's a crazy visual feast I get it that's a thrill ride that's a thing I'm sure there are a lot of people who argue that there's a deep meaning blah blah blah blah blah right but it's period away it's a beautiful movie it's a slow movie it's a graceful movie and it is a movie almost exclusively

about the coming of age of a young girl told in very sort of elliptical sort of episodic little moments of weirdness this is not the kind of movie you like i like like the weirdness. You were moved by this? I very much enjoyed that movie. Yeah, I'm tired of hearing about how much you enjoy seeing flashy things and guns fire and things jump. Because that's not what you're getting from this movie. The question was, were you moved by it in your heart? What I perceived to be my heart, yeah.

In the cranked up super muscle that you call your heart? What I perceive to be my heart, yes. In the cranked-up super muscle that you call your heart? Yes. What moved you about it? Her connection with the... I believe his name was No-Face? Yes. Her connection with that spirit I found very interesting. She was very polite and welcoming to him. And to the point where it was a threat to everybody else but her.

And I really liked the relationship they had. To the point where even after him as a threat was over, he would still follow her around and accompany her on her journey. Wow. I think you got something out of that movie, didn't you, Sarita? You did, yes. So what is it you want, Raj? I want a kind of success-based system for picking movies. So if I pick movies that both of us enjoy very often, I should get to pick more often. If she has a poor track record of picking movies that both of us

will enjoy, maybe she shouldn't get to pick as often what we both watch. But that's very subjective. Yes, yes it is. I mean, it requires you both to be very honest about whether or not you enjoyed a movie. I feel we're already pretty honest on Maybe I'm Wrong. Sarita, would you trust such a system to work? The problem is, is he's always going to end up picking the movies. So no, I admit it. Well, no, because but if you have a more open mind, then as a matter of practicality, he will end up picking more movies. Yes. What would you counter would be a more fair system, Sarita?

Well, I think it's really the only system that's going to work because I can't seem to figure out what he likes. I've tried showing him all sorts of movies and even ones that I think he's going to like, he doesn't. So you are taking this out of my hands and saying that you agree to his performance-based system? Well, I think that he should open based system I think he should open his mind I'm saying that his system is the only one that's going to work but in an ideal situation I think that he should stop being so fussy when he's

watching and just try to appreciate yeah but his mind has been poisoned by the crank like he can't I was going to say he can't sit still but if he's watching spirited away there's still people eating people and all sorts of grossness in that movie Like, he can't, he can't, I was going to say he can't sit still, but if he's watching, spirited away. There's still people eating people and all sorts of grossness in that movie.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's an intense movie. People eating people. Well, ghost eating people. Did you show him the cook, the thief, the wife, and her lover? No, I didn't. I'm not sure he would like that very much, Peter Greenway. I don't think it's something that would be his cup of tea.

But it involves people eating people. Spoiler alert. The cooking the thief part sounds good, but then it's just to sound boring. Could it just be cooking thief? Alright, I think I have everything I need to make my decision. I'm going into my chambers now. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Raj, do you view movies and filmmaking as an art form in any way, or is it simply mass consumption like fast food for you? Sometimes it's like art, but a lot of times it's just fast food. It seems to me that any time somebody views film as art, that you take umbrage with that and that you write it off. Are there any art films that you do feel like did win an award and I honestly had a thrill ride reaction to?

I don't know because I don't know which films won awards. I don't track that at all. What about you, Sarita? Are there films or like filmmakers, Tarantino, for example, who has a great deal of respect in the filmmaking world, but also is that thrill ride adventure. Many people in pop culture are used to the kind of movies that Quentin Tarantino makes and go and see them. You know, it doesn't even have to be awards. It can be just that they've they've thought about it more than just mindless entertainment.

They've they've, you know, the mise en scene and they've tried to move people, emotionally move them, you know. So, yeah, I think that you can have this thrill ride, but still, you know, kill Bill. That was emotionally touching. And that didn't win any awards. Kill Bill, too. Sorry to break in from Chambers there. Sarita, you've already got a lot of credit with me, all right? You don't want to blow it by start throwing around terms like mise-en-scene, okay?

Okay. Because that could be an immediate summary judgment if I hear something like that again. All right. All right. John Darnielle, anything to add to our two guests in the courtroom? You know, I was going to say that you should maybe pick an award that you feel is the best of the awards. And then only if the film is one, say, the Golden Bear. Do you watch it? This arbitrary that or the Fangoria film of the year, maybe. Ah, yes, that would work, I think. Yeah, Fangoria is great.

You will live to regret the Golden Bear film of the year. That would have been about three years. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. It's a difficult one, you know, because as you know from those who listened to the last verdict, there is a longstanding precedent. You cannot force people to like the things you like. But in this case, it's not just a question of, you know, I want Raj to like this kind of movie or I want Sarita to like this kind of movie. It's like we need to decide what we're going to watch tonight after dinner. And Raj has suggested something that I think is pretty revolutionary,

this idea of a performance-based recommendation system, essentially Netflixing the entire choice algorithm, which is that the more times he picks something that they both like, the more times he gets to suggest the next movie. And the more times she picks something that they don't both like, the fewer times she gets to pick the next movie. Now, one could sit down and do the math and write a program to make this happen. And you could have a star rating system or whatever else. And all looks good on paper, but it'll never work, guys. It'll never work.

The obvious reason. Sarita has good taste. Raj has terrible taste. He tried to get it back. Tried to get it back by dropping Brazil. And Spirited Away, both good movies. But if anything, Raj, what you did, you proved to me that you need

this kind of education in your life. Because you still put Crank 2 top of the list. Without hesitation. Without hesitation. A fatal choice. The pure Rorschach of the back of your mind cinema.

No, I'll watch it. A fatal choice. The pure Rorschach of the back of your mind cinema. Have you seen it? No, I'll watch it. I'll watch it, Raj. But here's what I, here's the thing. What you seem to be looking for and valuing in culture most of all is it makes me feel a certain way. Makes me feel all cranked up. In this case, it's like I like going on a thrill ride. And you're not wrong.

Thrill rides are thrilling. That's the name. Right. But if you, and I've found this, learned this the hard way, if you constantly chase the same experience that you get from one movie really well, and you don't, you're not open to other experiences that movies might create if you constantly chase that you get yourself further and further down

into increasingly narrow niche rat hole of cranks 2, 3, 4, 5 imitators of cranks straight to video weird like dumb parkour movies and like stuff where you know you just get you just

get more like and i'm talking as a guy who in between podcasts today basically spent my entire time looking at the covers of 1980s era defenders comic books like there is a kind of twitch twitchy addict crank culture that is very much a part of our lives these days now that we have access via the internet to everything where we just are constantly searching for the next fix of that thing we liked the last time right and when the the thing that you like is sort of a thrill ride you can feel it in yourself you're're even, you're getting sick, because now you're like, I don't even want any plot. That plot just bothers me. You know what I mean?

That's why Crank 2 is better, there's no plot. You know what I mean? There's not even any pretense of plot. Like, you know, that's what you're doing then, is you're you are filling a lot of your time with stuff that gives you an increasingly or I should say,

decreasingly potent kick, right? But you're not absorbing culture. And if you're not really at any, at any point in your life being challenged by culture or, or discovering something new or whatever else, there are a lot of better times to be spending your time instead of watching those dumb movies over and over and over again.

You know what I mean? Oh, look, Sarita? Sarita, I like her a lot. I really do. I look forward to watching your movies. You said mise-en-scene. Okay. I think that you can be a little pretentious. That's all I'm saying. Just easy. Easy on the mise-en-scene.

You know what I'm saying? But, I will say this. the reason why your system will never work is because sarita has good taste because she is and good taste i i define by being open-minded and being willing to say that's good when it's good or that's not good when it's not good but also being willing and open to new experiences from movies, even if they're Babette's Feast, which I, you know, I should have seen and will now go and see. And so I'm afraid, although I think your idea is really interesting, I think it would be bad for you as a couple.

I think it would be bad for you as a person. I don't think it would just ultimately not work properly. Okay? So there's only one way to do this. You can go the Darniel method, which is to establish a third party who will choose films for you, either by design or by default.

Fangoria, Film of the Year, plus Golden Bear. I think you both end up hating the movies that you love very quickly, and will then figure out things that you like together. Or what you can do is you can write down a list of 10 movies that you would like to watch with the other person. And then you combine that list and then you pull a name out of the hat. And that's what you watch whether you like it or not. My only injunction is that if you do that, and I recommend that you do, it's either that or the Darniel method, by the way.

It's either you each pick ten movies, put them into a hat, you pick one out, or you do Golden Bear, Fangoria Film of the Year. But if you do ten movies each, put them in a hat, pick it out, you also have to put After Hours in there ten times. You don't have to keep watching after hours after you see it one time, but I need to

stock the pond of that hat to mix as many metaphors as possible. Because I do think that that's one that you'll like together. And then the thing is, Raj, I know that you've got good taste in there, because you like Brazil. You like Spirited Away. You are, and Sarita,

you know, is a fantastic life mate for you because much like much like the heroine of Spirited Away, she's being followed around by this faceless monster who even when he becomes destructive. And and truly and truly engorges himself on all of his worst, worst instincts. She's still willing to be there to be your friend. That's probably why I like that movie so much. Give each other some time. See some movies that you do not choose. Force yourself to engage with culture that is not your choice

on both sides. Do it equally, and eventually you're going to find, I think, some taste that you enjoy together. That's a great idea. Thank you very much. I agree. It has a certain mise to find, I think, some taste that you enjoy together. That's a great idea. Thank you very much. I agree. It has a certain mise en scene, I think.

This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. Say two. Raj, Sarita, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. John Darnielle, you want to stick around while we clear the docket again? Yes, let's do it. All right. Thank you very much, guys. Thank you.

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If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Come on into my chambers, John and Monty. I'm just screening Haute Tension, the Alexandra Asia French horror movie that's a ripoff of Dean Kuntz's Intensity. Get out. It's the lowest and the highest at the same time.

I saw version two of that movie, which was high voltage, to say the least. Let's clear the docket, shall we? Mark with a K writes, Should documents be filed in chronological order from oldest to newest or from newest to oldest? My job requires me to locate documents from a specific month or day at a moment's notice in a system of hundreds of files and thousands of individuals. I'm going to stop you right there. I don't think there's any way that this guy can make this question exciting through his life experience.

I believe that the oldest to newest approach to filing is predominant and should be the standard. In the English language and in much of the world, books are arranged with oldest records at the front and newest in the back. My colleague uses the contradictory approach of filing documents, newest to oldest, such as how the Torah or a Japanese text is arranged. This approach creates confusion among those not expecting to encounter it. The confusion is heightened when both systems... Well, I was so wrong because it has gotten so exciting. I'm so glad. These ways reference the Torah and Japanese culture.

All right, but what it comes down to is when you're filing something, what are you, oldest to newest? Oldest to newest or newest to oldest? When you put it in the back of a... And Mark with a K wants an injunction to standardize the filing system. He's... Oldest to newest. Well, first of all, this shouldn't even be on the docket, because Mark with a K is fighting with the world.

Not just, he doesn't have someone else. There's no other disputant except the world, as far as he's concerned. Well, what do you think the world's, how do they organize it? Put it in the back of a book when you're organizing files or right on the top? I put... I do newest to oldest in my files. I would do it oldest to newest.

Obviously, the answer is all document filing must be completely random because that's going to be the law anyway. That's true. What about alphabetical? John... No. That's true. What about alphabetical? John? No. Wait a minute. If you have a file of correspondence.

Right. Right. In a manila file folder, right? Right. Which you have put into a hanging file system. Right. Right? And you have a document in there, which is my correspondence with John Darnielle. I have a number of letters from you. Right. I have a document in there which is my correspondence with John Darnielle.

I have a number of letters from you. Right. I have a number, or I've received a number of letters from John Darnielle asking ridiculously for his royalty on this free podcast. Right? And I have those in there, and I get a new one, right? And I'm like, I've read it. I stamped it as read.

Now I'm going to put it, where? In the back of the Manila envelope, or the Manila where? In the back of the manila envelope or the manila folder or the front of manila folder? My vote is back. My vote is back, too. It's kind of an alien question to me because me, I'm putting it in a box, literally in a box. I'm going to drop it on top. Every time I open up the box, the letter's going to go in.

And then when I go through them someday, it will be a glorious melange of letters, new and old. Merci beaucoup. Thank you. It'll be a really compelling mise-en-scene. You're throwing things into a cigar box, and then you're kicking that cigar box down a well. I understand. That is literally actually what I am doing with all of my valuable

documents every day of my life. Well, this most exciting episode of Judge John Hodgman clearing the docket must go to, I think, a majority rule. Yes. Monty and I, who keep files, would put the new document in the back of the manila folder. And I would argue from a person who does his own filing, there is a reason, and someone who used to be an assistant and used to file a lot of stuff for other people, there's a reason for it.

Because physically, it's easier to get that thing into the back of the file than it is to get it into the front. Because you just pull back all the older stuff and you shove the new thing right in. Whereas if you, physically, it's just, I can't even describe How you would do it And I think of it

As a living history Where it's a history book You open up that file You put it on the desk In front of you You open the top Of the manila folder There's the first document

And encounter you've ever Had with that person You flip all the way To the end Exactly There's the most recent One that you've had And if you have

A filing cabinet That you're pulling out And it's not A straight filing cabinet But a side filing cabinet And that hanging file cabinet Is at a right angle to you Then it is left to right Old No it's not a straight filing cabinet but a side filing cabinet, and that hanging file cabinet is at a right angle to you, then it is left to right. No, it's newest to oldest.

It's still oldest to newest. It's the way we read in English. Newest to oldest is the answer. Unless you're a rock star, in which case, kick it down a well. That's right. If you need it, you go into the answer. Unless you're a rock star, in which case, kick it down a well. That's right. If you need it, you go into the well. Even if you don't find it,

you'll find something interesting. John Darnielle, what a treat to have you. Thank you so much for having me. I had the best time. As a guest expert witness on the Judge John Hodgman podcast, you will not be returning

on the next verdict, but I hope that people will go check out your new album transcendent youth correct transcendental transcendental youth i apologize so very much quite all right i like transcendent too i'm good with any any permutation of the idea that youth have some spirituality to them and uh john darniel would it be uh would it be fair to say that you are a contributor to one other piece of recorded culture that is coming out very soon? Yes, you can find me on Judge John Hodgman when he's out of his chambers. It's been known to catalog interesting and vital pieces of information for the future good of the generations to come. And I've helped him out with a little musical interlude

that lasts several lifetimes. This is for the That Is All audiobook. My book of final complete world knowledge finally available for illiterate people in a red audio edition featuring some original music by John Darnielle, The Mountain Goats. I really think it was probably too late for a sticker to go on it,

but if you could really say, now for illiterate people. Well, yeah, and we've actually changed the cover of the That Is All audiobook to be just your face now, plus with a sticker, now for illiterate people. I think it would look really good. I like it. I'm very excited about that. Thank you very much for doing that, John. Thank you very much for having me. I enjoyed doing it. That was a fun song to make.

And when you listen to the whole audiobook, you will know that you're in the good company of Stephen Fry, John Hamm, Rachel Maddow, John Roderick, Jonathan Colton, Brooke Shield, Sarah Vowell Paul Rudd I'm barely on it

so there's a reason for people to buy it finally so buy it whether buy John's audiobook whether you like

John or not yeah buy the John's two-pack Transcendental Youth and that is all I have a lot of guests on mine too

so whether even if you dislike what we both do you're guaranteed to love our newest things right and Monty Belmonte I've at least name dropped

in that book what's going on with Studio Ghibli well I'm actually what's the big news from Studio Ghibli these days there's nothing

I'm not doing anything like that I'm just buzz marketing the movies that they've already come out with you like the stuff you like don't you we like the stuff you like, don't you? We like the stuff we like

and nobody can force it down our throats, although I have been forcing Studio Ghibli and Miyazaki movies down my children's throats because that's why you have children.

Exactly. It is the ultimate buzz marketing power maneuver. It was the absolute best segue imaginable as it is time for my child's dinner

so I need to go help him get things down his throat because he's very young. Thank you very much again, John, for being a part of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I had the best time. Good to meet you, Monty. Good to meet you. Monty, take us out.

I've been your guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte, morning host at 93.9 The River, WRSI in North Hampton. In for Jesse Thorne. You can find my podcast at WRSI.com. Thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of Maximum Fun dot org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at Maximum Fun dot org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com.

You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.