Judge John Hodgman - The Wonderful, Terrible, Terrible Towel Trouble

Episode Date: January 12, 2012

Katie and Bobby are dating and are both fans of Pittsburgh Steelers football. Katie says she was born into the Steelers Nation, while Bobby came to fandom while dating Katie. Their issue is the treatment of the team's signature "Terrible Towel". Katie says it should be treated with the utmost respect as an emblem of the team; Bobby says once it's purchased, you can do with it what you please, whether that's wiping chairs or your feet. Who is right, and who is wrong? Only one man can decide.

This week on the Judge John Hodgman podcast, the wonderful, terrible, terrible towel trouble. Bobby brings the case against his girlfriend, Katie. Katie is a lifelong fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and Bobby has willingly converted to Steelers fandom as a condition of their partnership. Part of being a Steelers fan is purchasing a terrible towel, a Steelers yellow hand towel, which is used to cheer at Steelers games and at home when enjoying said games. Bobby was glad to buy a towel. After all, the proceeds go to charity. But Katie says he should treat the towel reverentially.

Bobby disagrees. He paid for the towel. reverentially. Bobby disagrees. He paid for the towel. The money went to the charity, and now he should be able to use his property for whatever he pleases. Like, for example, toweling. Is a silk-screened hand towel a sacred object? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. Justice, justice, bow, wow, wow, football, memorabilia, fight. Swear him in, Jesse. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever?

I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he doesn't know Frank O'Harris from Lynn Swan? I do. I do. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Hello, complainant and defendant. Who is bringing the case today? That would be me.

And you are Bobby? Yes. Bobby, did you recognize the tune that I sang before you were sworn in? I did not. I knew you were going to ask me that, but I did not. Well, why didn't you look it up on the internet? Why didn't you hold up your phone with Shazam on it as I was singing? Are you prepared for this case at all? I am, just not for random theme songs, Your Honor. Random theme songs? Would you like to phone a friend? Katie, do you know what the random theme song was that I just sang? I don't.

Right. It's Bula Bula, the Yale football fight song for my alma mater, Yale University. I'm sorry, Your Honor. I do not go to such a prestigious college. In New Haven, Connecticut, home of Walter Camp, inventor of football, arguably. So you see my deep roots and care about this subject matter Your Honor, may I sing my alma mater UC Santa Cruz's fight song? Yes, you may Smoke two joints in the morning Smoke two joints at night

Smoke two joints Is there more? Yeah, but I'd rather not sing it I think the joke has run its course You seem to have nodded off in the middle of it, which I think is the purpose of the song. Well, now that we are all roused up for football. Ultimate Frisbee, in my case. Exactly.

Bobby, what's the problem here? When I started dating Katie around a year and a half ago, she asked me if I was a football fan. And I told her that I didn't really follow it. And she said that was perfect because then I could like join the Steelers group without much of an effort, which I did. And then the idea of a terrible towel came up and I learned about it. And I thought it was a pretty cool thing. And I bought one to prove a point because she... You bought one to prove the point being to prove the point that you could hug and kiss her. Yeah. That you were wealthy enough

and willing to do whatever it takes to hug and kiss her. Yes. Including buying a souvenir towel. Yes. But actually, the point was, I talked to her about this, and she told me the rules of the towel, basically, how it's kind of like almost a religious object for Steelers fans.

And I said, I don't think that it should be treated so sacredly. You had this conversation before you bought the towel? Yeah. All right, let me just get some basic information down. First of all, where do you live? I live in Shoals, Indiana. Shoals, Indiana. And Katie, do you live in the same town? No? I live in Shoals, Indiana. Shoals, Indiana. And Katie, do you live in the same town?

No, I live in Kokomo, Indiana. Okay, so how far away are those two places? The way I drive, three hours and 15 minutes. The way you drive... Yeah, it takes Bobby a lot longer. What is it about the way you drive? Do you speed? Do you drive on top of other cars?

What's going on? I do what it takes. All right. I can see why you are worried, Bobby, that you might not be treating this towel properly. Now, is there an adorable nickname for fans of the Steelers? Are they like the Smelters? The Steelers? Are they like the Smelters? The Steel Pack? The Steeler Nation, Your Honor.

The Stolen? The Pittsburgh Stolen? The Steelers Nation? Yes. Not only is it a cliche, it is hard to say. Yes. Sorry, Katie. Steelhead. Katie, are you from Pittsburgh? It's a kind of fish. No, Katie Steelhead. Katie, are you from Pittsburgh? It's a kind of fish.

No, I'm not. How is it that you are such a fan of the Pittsburgh Steelers? When my dad was growing up, it was during the 70s when the Pittsburgh Steelers were winning a lot of Super Bowls. And which sport is that again? It's football. Okay, good. Good. I've heard of it. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, that was that was that was the decade of the Steelers, was it not? Yes. And it was it was probably not a terrible time in the steel industry. No, it was a golden age, was it

not? Correct. All right. So your dad grew up in Pittsburgh and loved the Steelers. Oh, no, he grew up in Indiana as well. But when he grew up, that's when the Steelers were at their height. So he became a Steelers fan and has been one all his life. And so as kids growing up, we also were Steeler fans. Did you grow up in Kokomo? No, I didn't. I've lived here for about the last 10 years. Give me a little bit of a primer on the geography of Indiana. Would it be reasonable for your dad to have grown up liking the Steelers because of some geographical proximity to Western Pennsylvania? Or did he just pick it at random because he loves winners? I think it was more towards the he likes winners.

Because Indiana has a football team, does it not? We do. They were formerly the Baltimore Colts though, and I'm not sure when. Bobby, do you know when the Baltimore Colts became the Indianapolis Colts? I think it was sometime in the mid-70s.

Maybe a little later than that. It was before the Browns moved to Baltimore. Right, gotcha. The most intriguingly named football team in the world. Maybe a little later than that. Okay. It was before the Browns moved to Baltimore. Right. Gotcha. The most intriguingly named football team in the world. Yes. The dullest name for a football team ever.

I know it was named after a legendary coach. Isn't that right, Jesse? The Cleveland Browns were named after the coach? You're getting past what I've got. Wow. Can we talk about baseball? Yes, please. Okay, so he picked the Pittsburgh Steelers at random because they were winners. The way some sports hooligans used to love the Dallas Cowboys no matter where you were because of their cheerleaders because they were on TV.

Or thugs enjoy the baseball Yankees because they're the bullies of the American League and they like to win all the time. For a long time they did anyway, right? Yes. Have I drawn a portrait of your dad? An opportunist? A sports opportunist? See, I grew up in a town where if you did not like sports, you were not human. That is to say Boston. And I did not like sports, but even I cottoned to the Boston Red Sox out of sheer, two reasons, sheer geographical loyalty. And also they were losers and I understood how they felt. But your dad is a winner and he picked a winner and those are the Steelers, at least in the mid seventies. Is that correct? Yes. And is your dad still living? Yes, he is. And you grew up loving the Steelers because your dad did. Is that right? Yes. And did you have one of these terrible towels when you were growing up?

No. My whole family, we went to Pittsburgh a couple years ago to see the Steelers play the Packers. And that's when we got terrible towels. We got them in Pittsburgh. Tell me about the terrible towel. Is this a long tradition? Yes, since the 70s. Okay. and how did

it come about do you know myron cope was asked to come up with a gimmick while uh the steelers were going to super bowl so he was asked to come up with something to kind of promote fandom and he did he decided on a towel because it was lightweight and most people would have it anyway. Sure. Well, why not a pocket square? He's got a point. This is true. Answer me that, Cope.

Yeah. Let the record state that I'm shaking my fist at heaven. Why not a Steeler's cravat? Well, I believe the Miami Dolphins used to have a handkerchief, but personally, I feel that a towel looks a little more intimidating have a handkerchief, but personally I feel that a towel looks a little more intimidating than a handkerchief. So that's a good point. Towels are very intimidating. They are intimidating.

They're very absorbent and they can be used as weapons in locker rooms. Yes. So, uh, which, uh, a cravat, by the way, is no defense in a locker room. Trust me. And who's Myron Cope. I know I'm a dummy for asking this, but I'm asking. He was the announcer for the Steelers for 35 years. Did he have a catchphrase? He had a bunch of them. Give me two.

He said, yoi. And he said, yoi. That's more of a catch utterance. Or a nonsense phrase. So he had catch gibberish, basically, is what you're saying. Yeah.

How would he say it? In what context would he say it? I never listened to him, so I don't really know. Oh, really? But it sounds like it was something. Oh, I thought you were a Steelers fan. If I might interject here. You may.

You may. You may. Bobby, go on. I think, I don't know if Myron Cope had an actual catchphrase because I wasn't I obviously wasn't listening while he was doing it but I've listened to some of his broadcast and things like that and he

was more known for his voice which sounded like someone who smoked like 20 packs of cigarettes a day. Can you do an impersonation for me please? And there goes Big Ben Roethlisberger down the field. Oh, double joy. Joy. Yeah.

I'm not a good impersonator, but, I mean, it was just this really scratchy kind of salt-of-the-earth-like voice. Right. That he was known for. Oh, wow. known for. Oh, wow. So first of all, let me point out that the Steelers' purist, the lifelong member of the Stolen, refused to do an impersonation of this dude, whereas the more recent convert, the guy who converted in order to be in this relationship, actually did the homework and went back and listened to old Steelers games. Do I have that correct? Oh, I listened to Meyer and Cope. I just can't do voices.

Well, then you are not a sports fan. Oh. Like our greatest sports fan, Daryl Hammond. Exactly. So, Katie, Meyer and Cope, out of his love for the Steelers and for The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, chose a towel as the emblem of this football team. And you buy the towel. The money goes to a charity.

What charity? It's the Allegheny Valley School. It's for special needs people. Okay. And it seems like a worthy charity. His son actually lives there. I see. Oh, very good.

So you're suggesting that he was selfish? He had an ulterior motive? That he was just funneling towel money to his special needs son? Oh. I didn't say that. Yeah, and guess what? It will be a decade before I visit Pittsburgh now. Because I will be murdered.

So, and you're supposed to wave the towel around, right? Yes. During exciting portions of the football contest. Is that what happens? Yes. All right. And then when you take it home, how are you supposed to treat it? What are the rules for handling the towel?

Oh, gosh. We have some on the wall. Well, Bobby suggested that you were very clear about this. You don't use it as a hand towel. A lot of people use it as decoration. They'll drape it like over their TVs or something, but you don't use it in the bathroom. So they cover, they cover their TV screens with this towel. So they don't accidentally watch something that's not football. Bobby, what are you using the towel for? I actually do use it for its recommended purpose of cheering on the Steelers. Sure. My argument isn't that I want to do things bad to it that I should be able to and not have any problem raised with it.

Well, what sort of use are you talking about? I think being able to wipe water off of seats or actually use it as a towel because Myron Cope actually in an interview when he was talking about the invention of it said like – Now you have to do the voice now. Oh, gosh. I'm not going to be able to show my face in Pittsburgh either. Just do it.

Look, you guys called me, so now this is what you have to do. You're the one who called yourself the new Daryl Hammond. Yeah. In the voice of Bill Clinton. When I invented the terrible towel, I wanted something that the Spans could bring

that they'd be able to afford. And, you know, maybe have something that they could wipe the water off of their seats with. And so he even brought up the idea himself. Bobby, let me just say, triple yoy. Yoy. That was uncanny. That was a triple.

So he literally said himself, if they want to wipe water off the seats. Yes. And I couldn't, I thought I didn't remember that interview until like today when it was a bit too late to put that into evidence. You know, I consider that to be evidence.

It's, it's utter hearsay and a ridiculous impersonation, but'm going to accept it as evidence bobby what do you not have any other towels is this a situation where you have bought this one towel and you're just waiting to use it to mop some water off a seat i am a journalism major so money is an issue. But I do have – And guess what? It always will be. Yes. I'm aware of this. For you, press boy. It seems cruel that they even still have the journalism major.

It's like if they had a major in turning lead into gold or something like that. Well, there's still an alchemy major at Yale. It's one of the best alchemy programs in the country. Thank you very much, Jesse. It's actually quite successful. That's how they ended up with that endowment. Yeah, exactly. So anyway, you don't have a lot of towels.

And because you're a journalism major, you're frequently getting water on your chairs. I do have other towels. I actually do. I have gone to a Steelers game with Katie to the Colts game this year, and I use the towel as recommended. I guess my argument is that it shouldn't be considered like a sacred object by Steelers fans.

There's even like an anthem based around the towel. It's like a mock-up of the Pledge of Allegiance, where it says, I pledge allegiance to the terrible towel and stuff like that. There's a song on YouTube that you can look up for it. Jesse's found this

song. Bailiff Jesse, would you play the song? Well, don't disrespect the terrible towel. The curse of coke will haunt you somehow. Well, think before you treat it like a dirty dish rag. Because here in Steeler Nation, that towel's our flag. Well, if you don't believe me, well

damn it, you oughta. Well, just as Cincinnati's T.J. Housman oughta. Well, since the day he used the towel to wipe himself down The Bengals have sucked worse than the Browns Well, don't disrespect

Okay, Katie, this song seems to be your case in a nutshell. Let me ask you a question. Is this a real song or a song that you wrote and then performed yourself in a crazy voice on YouTube and then cleverly refused to do Myron Cope's voice to me saying I'm not very good at voices to throw me off the scent. I actually could not hear the song. Okay.

So I don't, although I can promise I did not write and put a song on YouTube. It was basically, due to some technical difficulties, you didn't hear the song at the same time we did. This is what it sounded like. Tell my boyfriend not to use that towel. It'll curse the Bengals and the Browns and other football teams. What does the terrible towel curse?

When people of the other teams, they desecrate the terrible towel, bad things happen to them. So there's a precedent of using the towel. Oh, yes. In a bad way. It's a bad situation. What do you mean? Have you ever heard of Osama bin Laden?

I'd like to make a motion to strike that from the record, whatever that was. Okay, so other teams desecrate the towel on purpose? Yes. To make Pittsburgh Steelers feel bad about the sports game? I think it's more of an intimidation. Okay. But then the Steelers beat them badly, so it's really just a bad idea to do it. Hang on a second.

Do you actually have data? Is there a correlation between desecration of the towel and stealer's wins? Also, are you torturing a dog? Oh, gosh, I didn't know you could hear that. No, we have a dog that's just... That sounded so bad when you said that. Are you torturing a dog? Oh, I didn't know you could hear that one. No, I'm not torturing a dog? Oh, I didn't know how you could hear that one.

No, I'm not torturing a dog. It's just wanting attention. Okay. Calmly tell the dog to wait an effing moment because I have some questions. Are you a superstitious person? I suppose. Oh, you are? Okay.

What do you think causes the Pittsburgh Steelers to win games? Training, diligence, discipline, and a good selection of players? Or if another team uses the towel in a disrespectful way? Is that what causes the Steelers to win games? Well, I think all of it would influence it. I'm really asking you this question. Do you believe in curses? Yes or no? Oh, no. Okay.

It is just simply part of the fun of being a member of the stolen to act like a superstitious witch hunter from the 16th century. Oh, Katie, are you there? I think she just went to go sacrifice her dog. Bobby? Yes? What use do you want to put this towel to? I don't want to personally do anything bad to it. My case is that it's not something that is so, like, I don't think it should be defended like a religious object. Once you pay for it, she's made the case to me that it's being disrespectful to the charity to do anything to it.

I have seen videos on YouTube of people burning it or stomping on it or whatever. And my argument is that they paid for it. They can do what they want. The money has gone to the charity. They've helped someone out. So they can do what they want, and they shouldn't – even if you are a Steelers fan, you can do what they want. The money's gone to the charity. They've helped someone out. So they can do what they want. And they shouldn't like, even if you are a Steelers fan, you can still be a fan if say, like you use it to wipe water off of your chair. Like if you go to- I realize that that's a huge problem in your house. So you have water all over your chairs

everywhere. But you must acknowledge that people who are burning the towel and videoing it to put on YouTube are not just using the towel in a normal way. They are making a specific act of desecration in order to provoke the Pittsburgh Steelers fans to feel bad about the sports game. I realize that. Is that what you want to do? No, I don't want to do that. Okay, stop. Katie, has he used the towel in inappropriate ways? Not in my presence.

So why are we talking about this? Because I think he wants to. He keeps talking about how he should be able to do this. Like, what sort of things does he want to be able to do? Do you have a problem with him wiping water off chairs? Myron Koch himself said that that was okay. If it's at the game, it's fine. Only at the game?

She didn't say that before. If he's using this as a cleaning object, that that was okay. If it's at the game, it's fine. Only at the game? She didn't say that before. If he's using this as a cleaning object, that is not okay. That's disrespecting the towel. First of all, I'm going to have to find you both in mild contempt of this court because I have a very strong

policy that I just made up the other week that I will not take disputes that are not actually happening yet. In other words, if he has not done anything wrong yet, I have nothing to rule on. But as punishment for your bringing me this hypothetical dispute, I am going to render judgment on one of you anyway. I don't know who's going to be happy. You just, you want me to rule on a hypothetical situation of whether or not it's okay to use the towel to wipe down seats, and not

only do you not have water on your chairs, but even the chairs perhaps are imaginary. You might not even have chairs in your apartment. When we argue about it, though, he doesn't just talk about going to a game and his seat being wet. He talks about how he should be able to wipe his hands off with it whenever.

Oh, okay. So he's threatening. This is true. He's threatening. True. Now we're getting somewhere. I have said that, say, I am poor someday and this is the only towel I need. Like, I should be able to wipe my hands off on this thing. You are just trying to get your girlfriend's goat if I am poor someday.

First of all, that's not hypothetical. That's going to happen. You're going into journalism. You are just trying to provoke your girlfriend. Is that not true? I don't want to say that in front of her. I need to keep... Jesse, do I have permission to treat them both as hostile witnesses? Oh, yeah. Can I treat them that way, too? No, because you go too far every time. Oh, but I brought my brass knuckles this week. Put them back in their velvet-lined case that you got

on eBay. Bailiff Jesse, I must say I'm not a hipster, so your joy in treating me badly may not be as... Shut your pie hole! Bobby, you are just trying to provoke Katie, are you not, with all these arguments? I really am not. It's more, it's a it's an ethical, moral

argument for me. You think now that you bought the towel and became a Steelers fan and listened to the Meyer and Cope and watched football games, and now you've been dating for a year and a half. Now you can finally show your true colors and, and treat her like garbage and the towel like something, well, like a towel. Katie, how, if I were to find in your favor, in your favor, what instructions would you like me to give him? I would like you to ban him from ever using the towel in inappropriate ways. You need to be more specific. It should only be used to waive at the games.

Can he wipe water off his seat in the stadium? If it's an emergency situation. Like an emergency, like there's water on the seat? Yes, and he doesn't have another towel with him. And also, he's a vampire. If he touches water, he dies. And he doesn't have another towel with him? Yes. And where should it be stored in between games?

It should never be on the floor, and it should be on display. Is there a special way to fold the towel such that it comes to a perfect triangle? Do Marines need to fold it? No. You're just trying to get his goat now. Isn't that true? No, I'm just really concerned he's going to use the towel. Here's what happened.

Here's what happened. You guys met. How did you guys meet? I don't want to hear all the story. Did you meet in real life or on the internet? No, we met in real life. I go to Ball State and she goes to school up in Kokomo and she was down visiting some friends. Okay.

And one of my friends knows her friends and we met and I tried to steal my Birbiglia joke to introduce myself and she caught me. Whoa. Do I need to get Birbigli on the phone? Yeah. It's some pretty heavy stuff.

What was the joke? And do it, do it in the Myron Cope voice. Do you remember the joke, Katie? So you stole a joke to try to impress somebody? I did. And she caught me.

And, but you tried to pass it off as your own. I didn't say it was mine. I just was like saying the joke and, he was trying to pass it off as your own? I didn't say it was mine. I just was like saying the joke. He was trying to pass it off as his own. I didn't say it was mine. I was just like saying the joke. And she said, that's not yours.

And I said, this is true. I advise you to stop talking. Katie, isn't it the case that you met this young man? You told him about your love of the Steelers. You insisted that he also loved the Steelers if he were to have any shot with you. As soon as he converted to Steelerism and started going to these games and listening to these old Myron Cope record albums or whatever it is, you knew you had a sucker on the line and that you could push him around and make him do whatever

you want. A plan started to hatch in your mind. Yes, a year and a half ago that you were going to push him around and make up a whole bunch of rules for how he handles his towels. Is that not the case? I don't try to push him around. He's bigger than me. All right. I think I have all the information I need. I'm going into chambers.

I'll be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Katie, did you expect this to transform from a dispute over towels into a dispute over how you treat your boyfriend? No, I did not. Do you think you treat your boyfriend right? Yes. Bobby, what do you think? She's a very loving person who knows exactly what I need and how to treat me. Wink, wink. We heard the towel song. Have you guys ever heard the San Diego Superchargers song?

No. I have not. I'm just going to offer it up. You have a beautiful singing voice, Jesse. Superchargers, San Diego. Chargers, Chargers. It makes me think of a superhero team. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. I got a little worked up before I went into my chambers there, guys. I apologize for yelling at you quite so much, but I do feel to some degree a little bit duped.

A little bit duped because Bobby has not been mishandling this towel so far. He merely is bringing up these issues clearly in order to provoke a fun little fight with his girlfriend, Katie. And Katie, in the meantime, expresses the traditional logical tautology of the sports fan.

Our team is the best team because it is the best team. My logic is right because it is right. There is no arguing with you because you are proceeding not from a rational place, but from a place of complete worship and fear of witchcraft, apparently, as well. And in some ways, I feel like you guys kidnapped this court to go once around again on the let's have our little cute fight about the towel trip. So forgive me, as I say, for yelling, but I am obliged to rule on this case. But I am obliged to rule on this case.

Now, I am someone who believes very firmly in tradition, particularly arbitrary traditions and silly and ridiculous traditions. I am someone who will sing the Yale Bula Bula football fight song, even though I went to exactly one football game and don't know the rules of football. But I feel a kinship with my tribe as sports fans do with their self-selected tribes. And so I appreciate the appeal of strange ritual and reverence, quasi-religious reverence for a team and its various accoutrements, specifically its hand towels. I get it. Bobby, so far you have done nothing to this towel. Is that correct? That is correct. All right. Given that I am forced to rule in what is essentially a hypothetical and what is essentially a hypothetical fight, I think you'll be interested to learn that I'm ruling in favor of Bobby.

Even though I respect the tradition of the towel, I do not believe that Bobby is talking about desecrating the towel, but using it casually in regular home use. Whether or not he has water on his chairs, he is clearly pathologically afraid of this happening. And I wish to offer him the comfort of knowing that there is a towel at hand that might be used to dry his seat. I also make this ruling in the spirit of rationalism.

I do not believe in curses. I do not believe in curses. And while I despise the person who would burn a towel or use it to wipe his or her nether regions and put that on the Internet in order to provoke the Steelers into feeling bad about their team, I think that's low. All the same, I do not believe that that is why the Steelers win games. And I think, frankly, it is an insult to the hardworking athletes and coaches of that team to suggest that the reason they are winning is because people around the world are using their towel incorrectly. I am not a sports fan, but I respect the athlete, and I respect the hard work that goes into winning a game. It is not witchcraft. It is discipline. And as such, as a corrective measure, I am asking you, Katie, to differentiate between tradition

and superstition, to separate yourself from the fear that a superstitious society is possessed by, and not worry so much about the way Bobby uses his towel. It will diffuse the fight, and you will have to find something else to fight about, I realize. Bobby, you have a new bath mat for two weeks. Pittsburgh Steelers fans, I apologize to all of you. I know you will not be happy with this ruling, but I want you to know this. Bobby is going to get out of his shower every day for two weeks and put his foot down on this towel, and your team is going to continue to thrive and survive because it is full of professional athletes and coaches who are working hard to entertain you. This is the sound of a gavel.

Superchargers. Oh, can I just say one more thing? I'm very much in favor of that Superchargers song, Jesse, because the message is exactly what I'm talking about. We're going to dazzle you with our plays. That's a great song. They're going to dazzle you with the plays, with the strategy that they've mapped out,

that they've learned, that they've practiced. It will be dazzling. They're not going to sing spitefully about other people in other cities who used a towel in the wrong way. This is the sound of a gavel. Wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe. Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. This is a stunning rebuke, Katie, and you are very confident that you're going to win. I'm sure she's I'm sure she still thinks she has won. How are you feeling right now? Oh, I'm disappointed. How do you think this is going to affect your relationship? Oh, I know if he uses it as a bath mat for the next two weeks, we are definitely going to have some problems.

Some Christmas presents may not get to him. You're threatening to steal his mail? She is a stealer. I can't arrest her if you don't press charges. No. I think I'll let her slide on this one um you know we all make mistakes in life and i think i think that she she'll learn from this i'm gonna cut off the recording and give you my private number if you ever need me i'm here and i have brass knuckles thank you thank youailiff Jesse.

I really appreciate that. Thank you guys so much. We'll talk to you another time. All right. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Bye.

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Visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience,

one you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I

Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-A-D Ah, it'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. And you're on the go. San Diego Superchargers. San Diego Superchargers. Charge.

Headed for home. Let it take us with your place. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. Hey. I was just in a... Football reverie. I suddenly got sports spirit. Sorry about that, everybody.

Let's clear the docket. That's probably a good idea. Here's something from Bo. With the recent release of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows Part 2, there has erupted an argument within my family. My brother asserts that there are only seven films, with parts one and two of the Deathly Hallows being only one film, split up into two release dates.

My side of the argument is that there are eight movies, with the two parts of the Deathly Hallows being separate entities. I'm not a huge fan of Harry Potter myself, but I can tell that there's a clear distinction between the two films. Can you help us? Seven years, seven films. Normally, I would call a sequel a separate film, obviously. But Lord of the Rings, all those movies were made at the same time with the same

cast as part of one unit and i believe that was the same thing that happened with part one and part two of deathly hallows yes the studio split them up into uh into two feature length motion pictures in order to get people to buy tickets to it twice but it is one story uh all filmed at the same time. It's all one big long movie. We've got something here from Matt. He says, Recently I had to use the restroom at the mall. When I got to the restroom area, I found a line of men and women outside of the men's room and the women's room cordoned off. Looking inside the men's room, I saw that all of the urinals were free,

so both the men and women were lining up for the stalls. I found this absurd, and even though I wasn't in a rush, I used a urinal. Presumably to the discomfort of the women there. My friend insists that this is rude, but I insist that I shouldn't have to handicap myself into requiring a stall to pee. Who is right? Oh, P.S. I was in my full army uniform at the time. Well, first of all, thank you for your service. Second of all, the public washroom is not a barracks, sir or madam.

No, sir is, right? Well, I think it depends what branch of the military he's in, correct? It is a male gentleman who is using these urinals, correct? Yes, but I think if he's... Marines are addressed as Madam. Oh, I see what you're saying. And the Army is addressed as Sir, correct? Yeah, and the Coast Guards are called Coasties.

Exactly, and the Air Force is known as Ms. And they're seamen. Yes. First of all, thank you for your service. Second of all, a public washroom is not a barracks and generally speaking in civilian life

you do not expose your penis in mixed company unless you're invited to and then you are, if you do that you are arrested. So yes, I do not think you should have urinated with ladies present Bye The Judge John Hodgman Podcast have urinated with ladies present. Bye. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org.

Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support this show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Matt Gourley. His great podcast, by the way, is called Super Ego.

You can find it in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, email us and be sure and include your telephone number. The email address is hodgman at maximumfund.org. If you have thoughts about the show, you can always comment on it on our message board, forum.maximumfund.org. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.