Judge John Hodgman - There Will Be French Toast With Nick Offerman

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

It's time to clear the docket and Friend of the Court Nick Offerman(Parks and Recreation, Death By Lightning) is here to help! Should one bring a whole, uncut watermelon to a party? Is polyurethane better than a wood oil finish? Is walnut an overused wood? Nick helps settle these cases and much more, including the question that rocks this Court: IS KETCHUP GOOD ON FRENCH TOAST?Nick's newest book Little Woodchucks: Offerman Woodshop's Guide to Tools and Tomfoolery is out NOW wherever you get books! And you can see him on DEATH BY LIGHTNING now on Netflix.New JJHo merch for the holidays and Cozy Season is available at MaxFunStore.com! Don't miss out on a chance to get your RIGHT or WRONG caps, the PURE JUSTICE SMELL candle, and your COZY GOTH comfy clothes!Please consider donating to Al Otro Lado. Al Otro Lado provides legal assistance and humanitarian aid to refugees, deportees, and other migrants trapped at the US-MX border. Donate at alotrolado.org/letsdosomething.We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman! Judge John Hodgman is member-supported! Join at $5 a month at maximumfun.org/join!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff, Jesse Thorne. We're in chambers this week, clearing the docket with me, the great Judge John Hodgman. Hello, Judge Hodgman. Hello, Jesse. I am here at the Technica House in New York City because we have a very special friend of the court with us today. You can see him seated to my right, probably your left viewer on the YouTube at Judge John Hodgman pod. He's a very affectionate and handsome man, and I've forgotten his name.

Can you help me out, please? John, he's a beloved friend of the court. He starred in critically acclaimed films like Civil War and Sovereign. You know him as Ron Swanson on Parks and Recreation. He's also a best-selling author. His new book is called Little Woodchucks, Offerman Woodchop's Guide to Tools and Tomfoolery. It's available in stores right now. Let's welcome back to the court, Mr. Nick Offerman.

Mr. Nick Offerman, hello. Hello. Thank you for being here with us again. Thank you for having me. And you're on tour with your book, Little Woodchucks, which we're going to talk about a little bit later on. That's right. But today we're going to dispense some justice. We have had people sending in disputes, cases, conundrums, if you will, that only the wisdom of Nick Offerman can help solve. I doubt that.

Can I say something earnest real quick? Okay. I'll tell you what. I'll leave the room briefly. Okay. Go ahead. Okay, he's gone. It is a great comfort and pleasure to be here on this program because I've actually learned a great deal about how I navigate my own relationships, specifically under the auspices of we all must be allowed to like what we like.

I quote that from this program with great regularity because it really has made me a much nicer person when I realized there's no sense in giving anybody. a hard time because they prefer a condiment that is distasteful or perhaps a musical genre that is a foolish choice, that is their prerogative. And they may feel the same way about my use of horseradders sauce. And so I'm very grateful to be here. And that is the end of my earnest statement. We have a thumbs up from Judge John Hodgman. And I'm back. Thank you very much. I think that's very kind of you to say. And guess what? We have some disgusting condiment deployment coming up. Oh, shit. But that's a little later here in our docket.

We may find we need to cut, cut that out. Oh, no, no, no, no. It was a perfect, the perfect unconscious tease for the content we are creating right now called the Judge John Hodgman podcast with Jesse Thorne, guest bailiff and co-creator. Why don't you read our first letter for Nick Offerman? Primary bailiff, Jesse Thorne. Here's a case from Anders in Seattle, Washington. my friend Jonah brought a whole uncut watermelon to a party I was hosting.

They then expected me to cut it. To me, the point of bringing a dish to a party is to minimize work for the host. Jonah says they were acting reasonably. They were also mad. The watermelon sat on my counter until it was rotten. Long party. Who's right? Who's right?

Who's wrong? Nick Offerman will help decide. Before we get into it, Nick, when you are arriving at a party, dinner party, cocktail party, whatever it might be, you bring a gift for the host, if you're gracious. That's right. What's your go-to? Go-to gift, Gigi. Usually a beverage.

I mean, if it's somebody who I know, I will sincerely reach out, they know the things I like to cook or that Megan likes to cook. For me, it's meat items. And for Megan, she's becoming an incredible baker. Megan, you're talking, your incredible and talented wife who's a whole human being in her own right, Megan Malawi. Megan Malali, that's right. Among her many other talents,

she's become a master of pies, and she makes even her crust from scratch. Wow. So, you know, we'll see if there's something we can bring, but generally, you know, adults like us, including us, we like to put on a spread for, I guess, and we don't want them to go to any trouble. Right.

So then invariably, I stop and pick up a very nice bottle of wine or a whiskey product, depending on what I know the host to like. Right, of course. Yeah, I mean, a bottle of wine, Jesse, wouldn't you say that's pretty much the standard, not a whole watermelon. Yeah, a watermelon is quite a hunk of fruit. I mean, I think this was a situation where, let's see, it's Anders and, and Jonah in Seattle.

Anders is the host. Jonah, they are the guest. I think Jonah was asked to bring something for the meal or a dessert or something. I don't think that they were

just sort of like, I know what's fun. Watermelon under my arm. I was supposed to bring a mane so I let a cow in on a rope. Okay. So you're starting to lean toward Anders, it sounds like Jesse Korn.

That's my explanation. I will say that speaking of cutting things up, I cut Anders letter down a little bit for length, but Anders goes on to explain that he was in the midst of getting, I think, a charcutory board ready, and they were serving, he was serving a signature cocktail that he had to make for everybody. So he didn't have time, he felt to cut up a watermelon on Jonah's behalf of this case. That makes a lot of sense. I mean, on one hand, I think, and you got to see the context. You've got to see the household and the kind of party it is.

Yeah. Is it a fancy party? Is it a, is it a cookout? I think a watermelon is a wonderful idea. But I think where I would draw the line for Jonah is that they should bring the watermelon and simply then say, can I get a knife and a cutting board? Yeah. Like, I've brought this watermelon. That does seem part of the contribution. And because what did you have in mind? Do you want this melon bald? Do you want to. good point segmented do you want it juiced um i do think that anders is is somewhat correct to expect jonah to finish the creation of that dish nick you say it depends what kind of party it is i guess the distinction you're making is between a standard party and a make work party like during the great depression uh a government program designed to gain to to achieve full employment for hosting parties and cutting watermelon. You're right. That's right.

That's right. It was part of the worst progress administration back in the day. And you're right. I mean, you can make some very talented watermelon carvers and sculpturalists. Thank you for having me at your party. I brought you some uncut trails. Thank you for having me at your party. I've brought you an un-electrified Tennessee. There's a real deep cut for the TVA heads out there. I brought you a post office to muralize. But depending on the sort of picnic, it might be, you can drill a hole in a watermelon and turn a bottle of Tito's upside down and let it glug in there.

And then you can actually poke some straws into the watermelon. Yeah. That's one way to consume. look there are a lot of things you can do with a watermelon and i think we all agree it's among the top melons if not the top melon no offense honey do for sure uh but yeah if you are if you are bringing a watermelon to a party and you see that your friend anders is busy creating a signature catchill now i'll tell you what my favorite uh uh uh host and hostess gift is uh when when we're up in main and we and friends get together

you bring whatever you want to drink and you drink it. And in fact, free the host from having to create that signature cocktail or even have something on hand to serve you. Like, that's the gift of doing less work, basically. It is brilliant, and it guarantees that you will be pleased with the beverage. Absolutely. So, yeah, I mean, you know, Jonah, you probably should have cut up that watermelon. I love the fact that, Onder's seeing that Jonah would not going to cut up the watermelon,

left it on the counter to rot. In a very silent protest. That's exactly so. I mean, so in that sense, Jonah's refusal to do the most obviously gracious thing in Anders' reprisal by letting it rot. Anders is right in this case, but you are friends who deserve one another, and I hope you remain friends forever. Amen.

I brought in my big wooden gavel that Matt Howie gave us years ago because I thought Nick Offerman might like it. I do. Because he loves wood. I love it. It reminds me of your beautiful baritone ukulele. Oh, thank you very much. That was made by Maya Moe ukulele's in Seattle, Washington, no less. But let's move on, Jesse Thorne, before we plug more obscure things.

Okay, we've got something from Catherine in London, Ontario. I like to eat. Oh, yeah. Here we go. I like to eat half my French toast with ketchup is the main course. then the other half with syrup as dessert. My husband Adam says eating French toast with ketchup is gross. Please order him to stop making faces and try it.

Now, I just noticed that Catherine is from Ontario. Canada is the home to the ketchup potato chip, of course, which maybe this is a Canadian thing to, add ketchup to French toast? I eat my French toast with Deneer sauce. Nick, I sensed a certain immediate visceral reaction to this concept. Yeah, I mean, it's immediately putting the idea to the test of, no matter how strange the proclivity of gravy upon the meat, as it were, it has to be allowed to fly.

but and so I immediately say who that rubs me the wrong way but if you like it go nuts if you if you like a bowl of ketchup with a little French toast as a garnish oh right a little french toast dipper I mean that that is your prerogative and by all means you should be allowed to like what you like and I would and I so I was on board with the idea and say great that sounds like you've made a little bit of fun out of your meal as well you've turned it into a fantasy two-course offering. That's true. You're giving it a narrative element.

Absolutely. Every meal is a story. Speaking of which, would you like to start a story with me where we eat some French toast with ketchup, Nick? I would not. Too bad. Uh-oh.

So yes, Jesse, I have here some French. Actually, have two items that I want to try. Some French tote. Wait a minute. That's, those are fried eggs. I want to scramble eggs, but okay. And these are fried eggs too. So no French dough.

Congratulations, John. Look, my inadvertent plug for the landmark diner here in Lower Manhattan remains. I'm sure they've had a very busy day. We all have difficult ones. But I guess we'll send Carla out for some French toast, which we'll try later in the program. In the meantime, I do have a question for you. You are aficionado of breakfast foods. Okay.

Yes. Right? Yeah. And this, I mean, receive. the wrong breakfast foods, I would say, is a great injustice. It's a great injustice, but at the same time, it's still breakfast food. Sure. What is your go-to?

I got some bacon and some sausage with these two different meals. You know, I tour a lot, and so quite often I will order a breakfast with a breakfast meat. And just to keep things fun for myself, I alternate. Oh, really? I love them both very much. I know Ron Swanson's brand Leans a little more towards bacon He's known for his love of bacon

And he's right, he's not wrong But I love a pork sausage as well Especially in the UK A Cumberland sausage I just had it Well, we both flew from the UK yesterday separately That's right And I enjoyed a Cumberland sausage for breakfast

Jesse Thorne, what about you? Here, just so that Jesse can see I'll hold up a sausage, you hold up some bacon. Thanks. Okay, so you're talking about So one of those is sausage and one of those is bacon. Yes, that's right. Thank you.

I love both as well. I'm a little bit hesitant sometimes with sausage because I'm worried that I'm going to accidentally get one of those chicken apple sausages from like 1998. Yeah. Not that they haven't made it recently, but like a sun-dried tomato in 1989. Yeah. To me, the food of 1998 is a chicken apple sausage, and I don't want that. I want pork.

And if anything, put some cheese in there, but the heavier, the better, as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, and nothing against people who prefer chicken sausage. There are very delicious ones. They do a nice job these days. People who don't eat meat at all. I mean, I find there are lots of great non-meat sausages that I enjoy in a sausage-eggand-cheas sandwich. Gimmie Lean does one that I think is quite good. But yeah, that chicken apple thing, that's a bad news for me.

It's not my favorite. But people like what they like. They sure do. Let me ask you this real quick before we move on, since we have some bacon here, how would you, I don't want to touch bacon that you might put in your mouth. You can. I will eat bacon that you've rubbed on the bottom of your foot. Oh, terrific.

Well, let me have this. You can have this piece of sausage that I've been eating. All right. There you go. That's fair. What about smoked sausage? that's kind of like the best of bacon and sausage. I used to get smoked sausage in a giant tube from Father's Country Hams in Arkansas.

That's some salty sausage. You sent me some of that once. But Father's Country Hams is closed now, so I don't know where I'm going to get my smoke sausage. Hit me up with your sources, listeners and viewers. Yeah. Now, this is what Jonathan Colton's children when they came to my house would call Waggy Bacon, which is to say, not crispy, which is. to say they weren't merely calling it waggy bacon. They were criticizing me for making my bacon

not waggy bacon not a waggy bacon guy. It was an admonition. That's right. Do you like crispy bacon or waggy bacon? I sure do. Okay. I mean, if I nail it when I'm making bacon for myself, I go right down the middle. Okay. But I've never sent, I've never had crispy or waggy that I sent back. Let me change some lives real quick before we move on to our next letter and Carlo is rushing out. We're drawing it out to get that French toast. Maybe we'll do that in another segment of the show. Do you mind if I finish eating the meats that you've given? No, please. And here's some more. Why, thank you. But I'm going to change some lives. I discovered something. If you get some thick, relatively thick cut bacon, obviously people do oven

cook all the time. Put it in the oven at 250 degrees in a cold pan, cold cast iron pan or a baking sheet for 30 minutes, then turn it up to 450. Set your timer for 15 minutes. You're going to like the way you look. I guarantee it. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we will have more on the docket, including some woodworking content, and the arrival of the French toast, or possibly two more bowls full of fried eggs. Who knows? We'll see what we get when we come back in just a second. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. This week, we're clearing the docket with our friend Nick Offerman, who has a brand new book called Little Woodchucks, Offerman Woodshop's Guide to Tools and Tom Foolery. I've read and enjoyed this book because Nick was a guest on my

public radio program, Bullseye, and gave me a massage. on camera, much to the delight of internet users. What a treat. People who use the internet for certain specific things. Nick, how do you choose wood projects that are appropriate for, as you put it, little woodchucks? Well, my co-author, Lee, who ran my wood shop for 10 years, she has two little boys, and she lives up in Berkeley. And so she's a built-in laboratory. And so the two of us curated these 12 projects together.

And basically, it comes down to what can we do without using electricity? And with using minimal hand tools, so for example, one project is a set of toast tongs that requires a couple of easy cuts through thin wood and then just some wood glue and some clamping. Or there's a box kite that's just long, thin dowels. with wine corks and glue and paper to make a kite. So these are... How many bottles of wine do the children need to drink in order to get the materials for this?

I believe there are eight corks. Okay, got it. Fair enough. And you can use conventional size or magnum. Both corks are good. But, you know, and so these are, I think, great gateway projects because once you see the power of wood glue, for example, in these tongs, you'll be astonished.

You can then build a house using properly cut lumber and wood glue. I'd love a tong house if you wouldn't mind constructing one for me. Or maybe I'll read the book and learn how to do it myself. There are also advanced tongs in here called cowboy tongs. That's right. What's that? They're super cool. I was staying in a bunk house in West Texas out on a ranch and it had this cool cowboy

kitchen and I was making breakfast for Megan and I. And I opened a drawer and it's a pair of tongs that are connected at their butt ends with a nail. So like they're hinged. And the way the two tongs are cut, they lever against each other. So it's just two cleverly arranged tong halves that when you squeeze them,

they create a spring action. And I said, I've got to, I've got to replicate this. Do you remember the first thing that you made out of wood when you were a young un? I do, I remember my dad was an, amateur furniture maker, and he made incredible things for our house. And so I was always around him in his workshop in the basement. And the first thing that I remember making was a little, just a little

box, a wooden box for me to stand on so that I could pee in the big boy toilet. Oh, wonderful. We called it the tinkle box. Why are there no tinkle boxes in this book? Well, because it's in my first woodworking book. Good Clean Fun, which is what you should get after you make everything in this book, then you graduate to Good Clean Fun and a tinklebox of your own. And in the meantime, just pee on the bathroom floor. Just learn to arc it is the trick. There's no, there's no more arcing in my stream, Nick. My 54-year-old mechanisms are not that powerful anymore. Maybe we should move on to some woodworking questions. Perhaps.

I mean, with strategically placed fans, you can get anything into a bucket or bowl. Good to know. Jesse, I believe we have some woodworking-related disputes and letters and conundrums for Nick Offerman to hear. This one is from Sean in Fairfax, Virginia. He says, I'm building a bench for our mudroom. I want to use an oil finish on it.

But my wife, Allie, wants to use polyurethane. I think oil finishes feel softer and warmer. It will give the piece character. Allie says polyurethane is more durable and easier to clean. Who's right? Nick, you have this question here from Sean, who's created a mudroom bench. Jennifer Marmer, I believe we have a photo of the mudroom bench to look at. Nick, can you see it from where you are?

I can. Yeah. I have a concern. Yeah, me too. Can you spot what we're talking about, Nick Offerman? I think so. I mean, from this angle, it looks like you can't open the door. Yeah.

Or if the door opens out, you're going to catch your thigh on that piece of trim. Yeah. I mean, I think that if the door is going, I mean, it could be that Sean isn't just building a mudroom bench, but also a barrier to an ancient evil in the house. It is a little confusing, and I, I can't, it's, it's, I'm baffled, but setting the aside, perhaps some question of perspective or, for those of you who are just listening and not watching us on the YouTube channel at Judge John Hodgman Pod, there's a big chunk of, of built in very handsome looking mudroom bench that seems to be blocking the doorway. At a sort of wainscoting level. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I had imagined when it was described that this was a freestanding bench, but this is actually built into the wall, and the walls are covered in boards of various lengths. I'm going to be frank. And one of the boards near the door of the entrance to the mudroom seems to just extend out an additional 10 inches or so across the door. I mean, this is, Sean is asking the question. Sean is asking the question from Fairfax, Virginia. Now, without getting some more angles of the piece, I don't want to give any sort of critique. It looks quite interesting and like an original design, which generally I give a thumbs up to.

And as far as the piece of bench crossing into the doorway, I definitely. I definitely would like to ask why is that happening. It's original design by Marcel Duchamp. I'm sure Sean has a very plausible explanation and plan. And Sean, take a vertical video and send it in for our social media. But in the meantime, otherwise, I think it looks quite handsome. I can't tell from this distance if it has been finished yet or not. But maybe you could tell us in general the difference between a polyurethane finish and an oil finish.

I will. And from here, again, it's some distance away, but from the sort of light peach color of the wood, I'm going to guess it. It could be anything from maple to cherry to a couple different kinds of oak or alder, perhaps. And so to get to the question, it's kind of an age-old battle in woodworking. Polyurethane. is an incredibly durable finish, but you're sort of encasing your beautiful organic material in plastic. So it doesn't feel like, it doesn't feel nice and warm like a piece of wood. It feels like

a countertop. Right. Might as well be for mica or something. But Allie is correct that it is much easier to keep clean, and it does have a much greater durability. So if you want to preserve the sort of brand new look of your wood, then

then that is a better utility choice. However, I do everything I can with everything I make to avoid using a finish like that. Like polyurethane. Like polyurethic or a lacquer. It makes it shiny too, which is not. You can get it in gloss or mass or semi-gloss, yeah. But just for me, I love the, as he said,

it does give it character. If you use an oil finish, it's going to stain more easily it's going to get dinged more easily but i when i deliver a table to a client that's a beautiful work of art i say if you if you show signs of life on this if you get coffee cup rings or dings in it that's you know i want your grandkids to see that and see the evidence that you lived with this table i don't want it to stay pristine you know this is not something in a museum this is the table that you live on and so in a mudroom me personally i i would rather see it an oil finish and see uh you know the the sort of damage or the evidence of life

yeah that's enacted upon this bench from this family um because i just i think it feels much nicer um when you come in and sit on it and you put your hands on it if i think it feels more like what Gandalf would prefer. That's true. If Gandalf was walking into a hobbit hole, well, maybe this is designed to keep Gandalf out. Maybe this guy doesn't want to go on any more adventures. I don't know.

Perhaps. But yeah, he would. And, you know, as you point out, you know, even in a museum, certainly among collectors I've learned, as you have Jesse from the road show, the antiques road show, what we're talking about here is patina.

That's right. The evidence of life, as you say. So I think we're all coming down on the side of oil finish. You know, the motto in Virginia, the state slogan in Virginia, Virginia is for finishers. And coffee is for closers. What's our next one, Jesse Thorne? Okay. Is walnut overused in woodworking, particularly on YouTube?

And the signature on this, John. Yeah. Michael Historian at large. Michael, historian at large. That feels like somebody that's writing into a public radio show. I'm going to be honest with you. I think I've probably gotten a few emails over the years from Michael Historian at large. I mean, I can't speak to that.

I don't watch a lot of woodworking on YouTube. There's a lot out there, Nick. I imagine so. And if anyone is looking for some, I would send them to see my friend Jimmy DeResta. He's my favorite maker to watch Make Anything on YouTube. But I would say in general, the question, what that elicits in me is, to make the analogy, is sourdough overused in sandwich making? Right. Or on YouTube.

Yes. Or on YouTube. It's like, sure, quite possibly, but it's because it's the best bread or it's walnut is arguably the most beautiful and easy to work with. of the cabinet woods. Oh. So it's not like, it's not like it's a fashion thing. It's,

it's the most gorgeous, deep, lush coloration, and it's really easy to work with, but with a very high strength. I was going to ask, what makes it easy to work with? Well, is it preferred?

It's, I mean, it generally has, has a straight grain. And so the, you know, woodworkers for centuries have, have sort of weeded out

the for example red eucalyptus or the gum trees don't even tell me about red eucalyptus those have grain patterns that are really difficult they can be really ornery they're quite beautiful but they're much harder to work with right uh they're talking about like saw through yeah sand down to use to use bladed tools with uh and and so the cabinet woods that are domestically generally considered walnut oak uh cherry maple and then mahogany is a is an import but that is very popular. Part of it is because they're straight grained. And so if you can imagine, you know, trying to take a cheese grater and cut something that has a straight grain versus a crooked grain. The crooked grain is going to beat up your blades. It's going to just

be a lot harder. There are other woods like teak comes to mind that has a lot of silica in it and that it's actual sand growing in the wood. So when you use saw blades on it, it dulls your steel much faster. O'Sage Orange is a domestic wood that does that. Wangay is an import that is like that. And so basically, Walnut... We just change this podcast to Nick Offerman catalogs woods. I would love that.

I mean, I think we would like to be successful. There are many beautiful woods that aren't talked about nearly enough. But Walnut, just, it's really lovely to work with. You know, if you're, for those of you, that love to carve meat, you know, if you get a beautiful wagyu rib roast, you understand. Or a piece of waggy bacon even. That's right. You can tell the difference between the good stuff and the ornery stuff.

I guess kind of a trendy would. I mean, you mentioned sour dough is a delicious dough from San Francisco, but is walnut too trendy, or should people not care about trends? I mean, I don't care about trends, and I also, but I feel I can't speak to it because I don't have an awareness of what woods are popular in design at the moment. But, you know, if you have to pick a wood, I'd pick walnut. There you go. I'll use wood to rule on that one. Okay, we're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we're going to tear open that French toast.

When we come back, there will be French toast. Judge Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from clearing the docket. Nick Offerman, of course, has a brand new book called Littlewood Jucks. You should go check it out. And while you're checking it out, why not check out Nick's interview with me about the book on Bullseye with Jesse Thorne, which you can find on the Bullseye YouTube page, including footage of Nick offering me a spontaneous massage. I've seen it and it's and it's glorious.

It's the 25th anniversary of Bullseye this autumn and I just got back from Santa Cruz, California, where I talked with our friend, the great Adam Scott, also one of the stars of Parks and Recreation. I don't know if you knew that, John. I did know that. I watched television. And I also spoke with the great Boots Riley from the coup and the filmmaker behind Sorry to Bother You. But I'm a Virgo on Amazon Prime. He has a new film coming out called I Love Boosters in the spring. And in addition to those, Glenn Washington from Public Radio Snap Judgment and the Spooked podcast, Glenn, one of the best, plus music from the Merman and comedy from our friend stand-up comedian, Scott Simpson.

All of that is going to be on the bull's-eye YouTube page if it's not up there now already. But, Jesse, I'm curious about something. When am I going to get to see you in person celebrating Bullseye's 25th anniversary, maybe somewhere in New York? Well, you are going to get to see Bullseyes' 25th anniversary show on November 15th with Chad Abramrod, H. John Benjamin, Kristen Anderson, Lopez, Bobby Lopez, Josh Gondelman, and Tony Shalube. But if folks who are listening to this right now don't already have tickets, they're out of luck.

Unless, unless they subscribe to the Bullseye podcast and listen to the show there. I will also mention, John, it's the middle of November, go hit up to put this on shop for your holiday shopping. Now is the time. John, we also have some brand new merchandise for the holidays at maxfundstore.com. That's right. My favorite is our new corduroy caps. I always say at the beginning of every show who's right,

who is wrong, only one can decide. Yeah. We've decided for limited time only and only for maxfundstore.com shoppers to open that up to whoever can decide because we are offering one hat design that says right and one hat design that says wrong.

You can purchase it for a friend. You can purchase it for yourself. That's right. They're very cool. They're like vintage 80s style corduroy baseball caps. I just saw a 49ers cap that reminded me of my best friend Petey's dad, Mark Fraunfelder, in a vintage shop the other day in Santa Cruz. That's the style of cap that we're talking about. We're talking about embroidered corduroy.

They look awesome. They say right and wrong. They're so cool. Plus, we got all that cozy got cozy got got got got incredibly cozy and gothy sweatshirt and sweatpants and sweatpants matching. set, something you can put on and sit around the fire and get cozy and gothie with your favorite cuddly partner or just by yourself drinking some, I don't know, eggnog that's been food dyed black for fun. Cozy Goff, you can go check out this incredible illustration of two gozy goths snuggling by the fire that was created for us by the wonderful Tom DJ of Bossman

Graphics. You can preview it over at maxfundstore.com. You can also check out our holiday only limited edition, scented candle. What scent? Well, it's obviously just a smell. This is the scent of a candle. Justice Smell is available for you right now with a label designed by the amazing Aaron Draplin of Draplin Design Co. It is actually a very light refreshing. How would you describe the smell of this candle, Jesse? It's a fresh cotton scent. A fresh cotton scent. And you can use it in any room of your house and you can always have the smell of Judge John Hodgman with you wherever you might have a match handy. It's a really beautiful little item and all of our holiday merch is available.

Now for you, they make great gifts. I really encourage you to get those right and wrong hats and shove them in some stockings because I'll tell you something, who's right, who's wrong? Only I can decide you'd make it a lot easier if you wore a hat that said you were wrong. That would make it easy for me. Go check it at maxfundstore.com. and also go where I'm going to go to do some of my holiday shopping at the Put This On Shop where you've got some wonderful vintage items and real finds. Yeah, so many treasures at Put This Onshop.com for gentlemen, ladies, everything within those boundaries and without at Put This Onshop.com.

Seriously, if you have someone in your life who is like, I just don't know what to get for this person, that's when you go to Put This Onshop.com, because you're going to find something one of a kind for everyone in your life. And I always go there every holiday season and find some really cool stuff for my dads and grads and friends and moms and dads and the people in my life that I care about. Put this on shot.com, maxfundstore.com. And of course, Bullseye is where you can hear and celebrate the 25th anniversary of the incredible interviewing stylings of Jesse Thorne, one of the best in the biz,

if not the best in the biz as far as I'm concerned. And you get to see Jesse get a massage from Nick Offerman on the YouTube channel. come on, that's a gift in itself. Let's get back to the docket. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast with our pal, Nick Offerman. John, Nick, you've got a bag full of French toast there. Are you ready to ketchup it?

Let's see what happens. I'm going to start doing deep breathing. This is syrup. This is syrup. That's for the dessert course. This is an omelette. I don't know how this got in there. It's like, it's like, are you, are you the subject of a curse?

Any, any time that you run a fowl of a breakfast, witch? Anytime you order breakfast, extra breakfast comes at you? I mean, I would think run a fare of a breakfast, which in that case. I can't explain this. I mean, there, people do. If they're fans of Parks and Rec and I'm in a restaurant, quite often, my meal will arrive with a lot of extra bacon on the meal. And I'll look around and a chef will be poking his head out from the kitchen and give me a furtive thumbs up. That's wonderful.

And I loved that until my cardiologist showed me some numbers and I said, okay, now I say thumbs up back and then I put the bacon in my pocket. For later. And I give it to someone. Oh, that's right. bus, yeah. All right, let me open this up. Nick, we're old pals, so I'm going to use my fingers to parse this out. By all means, I'm like that. I'm going to give you this plate that already has, that's been pre-linked with sausage. I have a very robust immune system, and I think it's because I eat a lot of soil, the soil of the world. I don't worry about germs, and I think it serves me

very well. Yeah, that's right. Nick Offerman says, eat dirt, America. That's right. Not bad. All right. Now, there's some French toast. You have a little knife and fork there, unless you want to eat with your fingers. Mmm. And we have an extra, you have an extra option, too, Nick, because I was concerned, rightly, it turns out, that Landmark might forget the ketchup. So I picked up some packets of ketchup from my home diner, which Nick, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, the owner of the diner begged me not to reveal the name of it because he's too busy already. Sorry, little purity in Park Slope, Brooklyn. But anyway, I got some ketchup packets from there. Landmark sent in this off-brand ketchup, chef's quality, it's called.

But I've got some good old Heinz ketchup for you. Wow. French toast with ketchup. To me, now again, I'm down for this experiment, but I'm going in feeling like this is a desecration. Are you a French toast person, a Pampardou kind of guy? Am I a human being with taste buds? Yes, I am.

Okay. I mean, French toast is an undeniably gorgeous breakfast delectation. And Jesse, I'm sorry that we don't have any French toast for you over there. It's okay. I actually don't really like French toast. Oh, really? I don't hate it or anything. I'm just not really into it.

I'll just take all the sausages and bacon's that are left over. Maybe Carla could bring those over. Carla is showing off the French toast. Thank you, Carla. The thing about French toast is what it's great for is it's one of the many syrup delivery systems. It exists to deliver maple syrup. That's right. Into your mouth.

Well, cheers. Cheers. It's been nice knowing you. not terrible have you ever eaten ketchup on scrambled eggs that's something that i used to do i experimented with it during my teen years i've tried it because i was i was with people who used it and i said let me try that this is not dissimilar i automatically went in for another bite so that tells you something that was a completely that was a reflex second bite and I like ketchup too

that's one of the things they give you when you get a neurological exam that's right at least my doctor is kind enough to do that for me I will say the sugar content in the ketchup is playing an important role in my acceptance

of this dish I see yeah it still feels somewhat like a treat yeah it's sweeter like when I hear put ketchup on something I think well that's it's not a hot dog or a sandwich. Right.

I mean, at this point, I would not be putting any powdered sugar on top. No. Is enough. But I do feel like to cleanse my palate, now I'm going to need to put some syrup on this other part. Yeah, please do. And I have a nude piece of French toast here, if you'd like to start over. And some drawn butter in case we're going to have some lobsters later, apparently. Gosh.

You want to go again? I'll just hit this one. Meanwhile, I won't burden you with this, but I will try this. chef's quality to see if this is a secret ketchup that we shouldn't be sleeping on. I'm pretty much a Heinz purist, but I will try some chefs quality and see what that's like. Well, I wouldn't eat it with a spoon, that's for sure, but I wouldn't eat it again, actually, is the answer. It's so much, it's so much considered, I was going to say, but it's not meaningfully different. It is meaningfully different.

Heinz all the way. Heinz wins again. We know this. Anyone who listened to our Seattle episode where we had the ketchup taste test knows Heinz is the best. Meanwhile, Nick Offerman is continuing. I mean, this is my kind of podcast. Good. Do you like maple syrup on your sausage?

Sure. I mean, I like maple syrup on anything. I do like maple syrup, but I don't want it to interfere with my enjoyment of sausage, I'm afraid to say. Given my druthers, I need nothing on my sausage. Yeah, I'm a druths man myself in that regard. But, yeah. To sort of wrap up Catherine's question, I would say surprisingly, you know, three-quarters of a thumbs-up. Yes, I agree. Three-quarters of a thumbs up. But at the end of her plea, she asked that her husband be made to try it.

And that, I mean, you know, I would say to any husband or any spouse, generally, if it's a question of trying something. try it. Then you've made a compromise. You've made a positive step. And you can then say, oh, no, thank you. I don't like it. You may find you love it. But at the same time, I also don't think we should be made to have to try things. You know, the like what you like settled law came out of one of our earliest cases. And one of many times, husbands have asked their spouses to watch a movie that they like. And in that, regard, I don't think you should be ever forced someone to watch a movie because it's just as it's, first of all, people like what they like. If they don't like the movie, that's

fine. Second of all, you just feel terrible because you've foisted a, your favorite thing on someone who's may or may not be enjoying. And it's just, it feels like a bad pop quiz essentially. But if you're talking about a bite of French toast with ketchup on it, well, I mean, Catherine's husband's named Adam, I believe, in Ontario. Adam, if Nick Offerman and I can eat some french toast with ketchup on it. Surely you can eat some French toast with ketchup on it one bite in order to honor your wife was a whole human being in our own right and a person that you claim to love. So give it a try. And certainly if you don't like it, that's fine, but you should stop making faces because who knows. Amen. And by the way, if it is a thing

in Canada to eat ketchup on French toast, let us know in the comments or wherever you know how to get at us because I'd be very curious to know. We have a case from Rocky in Manitouac Wisconsin. I live in Wisconsin, but I am a Chicago Cubs fan. I love their history, players, and the lore of the Billy Goat curse. And I've used the Cubby's team song to convert two of our three children. But now that the curse is broken, should I become a Milwaukee Brewers fan? I like the idea of going to a Brewers game with my family and cheering on our local team. Nick, how do you feel about the city of Chicago? I feel a very strong affection for the greatest city in the nation.

I lived there for a time. It's easily the best theater community in the country. Yeah. And that's not an exaggeration because it doesn't have Broadway and it doesn't have Hollywood as ulterior motives. So a lot of the theater you see in New York or L.A., people aren't interested in doing a Good Ibsen, they're trying to get on friends. Right. In Chicago, there's no friends. That's right. It's just classic, old-fashioned go-nowhere theater.

Which makes it just for the love of it. The greatest thing. Yeah. This is, I have a lot of feelings about this question. I really love this question because the older I get, you know, when I was younger, our main rivals these days for the Chicago Cubs are the St. Louis Cardinals and the Milwaukee Brewers. And I used to get into shaking my fist at the rival teams and saying, you guys can go scratch yourselves, you know. And these days, I did a commercial with Craig Robinson some years ago where they had him in a Chicago white socks hat and me in a Cubs hat.

And I said, you know what, I don't want, I no longer feel enmity toward rivals. I'm glad we all get to enjoy baseball. Right. And so I'll absolutely, and the reason I would get mad at the Cardinals is usually because they're good. It's usually complimentary where I'm like, you son of a whore, you do so good at hitting home runs that makes you a villain in my house. And it's a backhanded compliment. But recently, the brewers have been in this pattern where they unremarkably win the division over. the cubs yeah and it's really frustrating because this year it came down to the final game in a

playoff series between the cubs and the brewers and the cubs were so lackluster right that a slightly less lackluster brewers team beat them like they petered out to the end and it was like god that was so disappointing for everybody right and the brewers then uh they their catcher again William Contreras, went on the news and did some really extreme bragging. It was some really unfortunate, like, braggadocio. They call it brewer bragging. That's right. Yeah.

Some brew brags. And the Cubs have a tradition where they hold up a W flag when they win. It's just a thing. It's just a thing. So when the brewers beat them in that last game, they took a big team photo out on the diamond, and they held up a big L flag. Oh, wow. which I call being a sore winner.

A sore winner. You've won the thing. Yeah. And then they like made fun of something about the Cubs. And then they learned the Greek lessons of hubris and were just immediately spanked into embarrassing submission in the shortest time possible by the Dodgers who the Cubs had been beating all year. Like it was clearly just a case of like, don't, don't brag. Don't make fun of the other team. Don't be a sore winner.

And so I was at least glad that the justice of the universe said you have learned the wages of hubris is embarrassment and defeat. You know, I'm following most of what you're saying. I'm not known for being a follower of sports. This is a sport ball topic. Not due to a prejudice on my part, but due to trauma. The one time that I thought as a teenager that I would try to follow the Boston Red Sox was, in 1986 as they marched towards ignominy and the loss of the World Series to the New York Mets.

And that was a hard thing to deal with. It also goes back even further to my brief attempt at playing youth soccer when I was perhaps eight or nine years old. I was very on the fence about it, but I was assigned to a team called The Force, which I liked very much. And perhaps because of that, I turned off, I put the blast shield down over my face, and I scored a goal because I just allowed the force to guide me.

My God. And I so, this was so unexpected, even to me as an eight or nine year old, that I delighted and perhaps too much because as we were walking, you know, past the other players going good game, good game, good game. I said, ha, ha, we won. And my own coach, who is the terrifying actual Irish person in Boston, not an American Irish person. but an actual Irishman yelled at me for, like, right at the peak of my triumph, my one little triumph appropriately scolded me for being a sore winner. You went too far. And I've never kicked a soccer ball again.

Actually, I take it back. Some kids in the courtyard of our building kicked a soccer ball out of the, you know, it went foul. And they were just playing in the courtyard. And I attempted to stop it with my foot. And I did. And then I immediately jammed my toe and got gout in that foot. So I don't know what to say about it. But Jesse, you're obviously a baseball person

and you're someone who grew up loving the San Francisco Giants and now you live in a different city, Los Angeles. And I have some news for you, Jesse. The Los Angeles Dodgers, I believe, just won the World Series. Do you hear about that? Jesse? I'm fine. Jesse?

No, it's fine. I'm fine. Giants fans don't like the Dodgers. No, I know. I know what I'm doing. There's no conceivable world where I become a Dodgers fan for convenience reasons. I don't even like you, John, implying the implication that it could be conceivable. I hate the Dodgers so deeply.

It's the only conviction I hold in life. It's not based on. anything. I understand. The Dodgers. I don't even intellectually believe in the like arguments against the Dodgers for being sneaky or a super team or too much money or whatever. Like actually intellectually, I think it's mostly just that they did everything right. And also many of the Dodgers, there's a few real heels that I try and focus on, Blake Trinan. But for the most part, they seem nice i mean who hates show hey otani the greatest baseball player of all time whose also seems to be having a great time and be really fun and nice who hates mooki bets

who bowls three hundreds on his off day he's a professional level level bowler when he is not switching from right field to shortstop at age 31 or whatever i i feel like uh the the cardinals are our traditional rival. The brewers up until recently were an American League team, and when the league expanded, they switched the Brewers to the National League. So they're a newer rival. They're only 90 minutes up the road. And so it doesn't feel that it has the teeth, you know, that the Cardinals rivalry has. But they've certainly been pesky because they keep winning the division unremarkably. And so, you know, I would just, I just wish if they're going to win the division that they would do it in an impressive way and say, well, I got to give it up to these guys.

They were great, but they're never great, and it makes it disappointing. But I feel like, to answer her question, I, you know, I live in Los Angeles and I love going to see Dodgers games. But no matter who's playing, I'll just wear my Cubs stuff. Right. I just love going to watch baseball. I can never feel a fealty toward the Dodgers. They don't feel the same as other teams. And maybe I liken it to the Yankees.

They also don't, they feel like too much more, I don't know, like a- You liken it to what? The New York Yankees. I'm sorry, there's a problem with headphones, maybe? There's an American League team. Jacob, what's going on? For folks who are... Every time he speaks, I just hear this horrible screeching of insects from a netherworld that I'd rather not peer into.

For folks who are listening at home and can't see John, normally John wears the judge's robes to do the show. Right now, he's wearing a backwards Bruins baseball cap and a Tom Brady jersey. Now, wait a minute. Now, let's not go too far. I mean, look, Jesse, you expressed... I'm sorry, did you finish your point, Nick? You were mentioning something and then you turned into the horrible screech of the underworld. I think to just try and wrap up that point, I would suggest you can go enjoy games at the Brewer's ballpark without having to switch your loyalty to that team, which historically has been a disappointing team.

And I say that without disparagement. The Cubs, you mean specifically? No, the Brewers. The Cubs have historically been a lot more fun. They're more charming. And I think that's inarguable. It's not my subjective opinion. And I don't want to disparage the brewers, our rivals.

They have, I have friends that live in Milwaukee, and they have a great experience. You know, every baseball team, I want everyone to love their team. Yeah. But I don't think, I don't think it's a move of positivity to switch from the Cubs to the Brewers. I don't think that's going to. So you don't think Rocky should make the move, even though Rocky is kind of brewers curious. Yeah, I mean, I feel like go enjoy the ballpark, but where your Cubs stuff?

The Billy Goat curse of the Cubs was the same style of curse. We had the curse of the Bambino in Boston, which was the never-winner World Series curse for a long, long, long time. And longer, I think, for the Cubs, right? Yeah. Because finally, thanks to Theo Epstein of Brookline, General Manager of the Red Sox, the Red Sox won the World Series in 2000 or whatever and broke the curse. And suddenly I didn't understand sports even more than I. I already didn't understand it because the Red Sox are always supposed to be underdogs. Right.

The Billy Goat Curse was broken when? 2016. So very recently, right? But what is the Cubby's song that she refers to? It's a song written by Steve Goodman, who was a contemporary of John Prine in the 70s in Chicago. And it's called Go Cubs Go. How does it go exactly? Baseball season's underway.

So you better get ready for a brand new day. I put you on the spot. The Cubs are going to win today. Hey, Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are going to win today. Go, Cubs, go. Go, Cubs go. Hey, Chicago, what do you say?

The Cubs are going to win today. And people do argue that it's not necessarily a great song, but the good feeling that it engenders is no joke. We'd love to hear that song play at the end of the game. I really enjoyed hearing it, particularly in your William Shatner-speak sing-rendition that you gave it that was very moving. And I will point out that there is a way to convert enemies, a baseball enemies only, of course, to joining your team even. And that's by winning.

Like, you know, you can't become in love with losing on principle over and over again. Then your team affiliation will die and whither and become toxic and so forth. But if you win the World Series in 2003, guess what? You start seeing Boston Red Sox hats in New York City. And that's a very interesting thing that has nothing to do with anything else other than coming together and supporting the team. And by the way, the love of baseball, I think that that's where I'm going to leave it for you, Rocky. Only you know what's in your heart. And I think we should all just feel grateful that, and you should feel grateful that you get to watch baseball.

because unfortunately I cannot because I my our daughter who's a whole human being in our own right who now lives in San Francisco took us to a baseball game in Oracle Park to watch the Giants play the Cardinals and it was a wonderful evening in one of the most beautiful ballparks I've ever been in Jesse and what a good time I had eating those garlic fries and those crazy crab sandwiches but of course the the Giants lost by one baseball scorehole or whatever to the Cardinals. And I remembered something that's very true. And it's absolutely talking about the curse of the billy goat. I have never been to a sports game of any kind where the team I was rooting for one. And I'm beginning to think that I am the problem. And I will not ever go

again because I don't want to make anyone upset. I mean, I take that as a challenge. We have to disprove this. Well, Nick Offerman, thank you. We've got one more. for you and this is a controversial one Jesse you want to you want to talk about it for us yeah uh this is from lea my husband's been wearing a specific cutoff sleeveless shirt for more than a decade i really think it's time for it to go he says he'll only wear it at home but then i still have to see it and you and nick offerman please order him to retire the shirt and i believe we have a photo of the shirt oh hell yeah which we're looking at now.

Oh, no. Yes, it's the twist. What does it say, please? It says, you had me at Meat Tornado. It features a one color print of Mr. Nick Offerman. I presume that's as Ron Swanson. That's right. Well, as soon as I heard a cut-off sleeve t-shirt,

I drew a deep inhalation. because that's sort of like ketchup on french toast to you it i mean well it it touches uh touches me very close to home um because this is uh you know this is something that my wife megan malady and i may have brought on your show had we ever uh gotten around to it um especially mine mine is a nick cave in the bad seeds t-shirt sleeveless sleeveless oh yeah black t-shirt red letter from like 92. Sounds great. And I have to say,

I don't know, can I say this on this channel? I looked sick as fucking as T-shirt. I'm pretty masculine. And when I had that sleeveless t-shirt on, that's exactly what I was going for. Right, right. I was my own platonic ideal of a badass, like motorcycle riding,

Fonzie want to be. Yeah, that's right. And it turns out, I've learned over the years that the women in my life usually don't agree with that aesthetic ideal, that it's something that is performative on my own part, like wanting to look cool kind of for the other guys. Right. Because Megan would say, what in the world are you doing? Why don't you wear something that I like to see you in?

and and I have to say there so by now is is Megan's objection to the sleevelessness to the Nick Cave and the Bad Seedsness or to the overall sort of like youthful cringy rock and rollness as it is stretched across your body as a mature man she and I both were a lot still wear a lot of like rock and roll t-shirts so it's not that and it's not Nick Cave by any stretch we both love the heart attack out of Nick Cave yeah um it's It's the cut off sleeves. It's like the cool, tough guy, you know, like performative college age sensibility. And we've been together for 25 years. So by now, my closet has been curated to basically a collection of garments that Megan is either chosen or that I know she loves. Yeah. And, you know, for example, I just have a rack of buttoned down flannels, you know. Yeah.

And I will bring one home from a great company like Philson or Pendleton. And maybe they gave it to me on a TV show. Right. And I say, oh, I love this new flannel. And I'll bring it home and Megan will say, I don't like that. I don't like the color. I don't like the, for whatever reason. And I'll say, well, it's interesting because I don't want to wear things ultimately.

And I had to learn this over the years of marriage. why should I wear things that I like more than the person who I want to find me attractive likes? And I really started on one end of the argument where I was defiant, and I said the same thing. I was like, well, all right, if we're going out in public, if I'm, if I'm where you have to countenance me, then I want to wear something that you condone, that you, I don't want to wear something that you dislike. I want you to like what I look like. Yeah. But if I'm going to my wood shop or I'm, you know, I'm working out or any of the realms in which I'm the master in the 3% of my life where I'm the boss.

Well, and, you know, it's important to have a percentage of your life. And if you're sharing your life with someone as a life partner, you both need percentages of your life where you can just be alone and on your own and make your own stuff in your own wood shop metaphorically. Sure, or not even necessarily alone, but just not in Megan's sphere. Right. So I can go hang out with other cool dudes, and we can flex our muscles for each other and, like, roll cigars, I'm guessing. But that's probably what's going to happen. But I think the thing I want to impart that I came to, because it also goes for haircuts and just all matters of personal appearance, eventually I was like, I've made a promise to this person to. to be her best friend and her spouse forever.

Right. Why don't I do my best to make choices that strengthen that bond and that honor the marriage? And so when it comes to questions like this, that's the ultimate barometer is I would rather please my wife. I would rather have her like to look at me than me like to look at me. And I don't think that this is going to change your mind, but I'll add some. context, because I did ask Leah, well, what is it that you don't like about the shirt? I mean, obviously, who wouldn't want a shirt with your face on it, of course? You know what I mean?

And I mean, we could argue back and forth. I mean, Jesse, I'm sure you have some opinions on when sleeveless t-shirts look good or look bad. Do they look good? I guess when the sun is out. And the buns are out. Yeah. Do sleeveless t-shirts look good or bad? I don't know.

I guess it depends on the arms in question and the spirit with which they're out. worn. I can tell you this. Some years ago, I purchased at the flea market for my friend Mr. Jordan Morris, a tank top featuring one Bart Simpson. Calabunga. Yeah. I believe he's saying don't have a cow, dude. It's the classic first season, you know, Simpson's merchandise mania graphic of Bart Simpson. And he didn't wear it for a year. And then I believe he went on some sort of trip where there was going to be a pool and he wore it around the pool and he got so many compliments that now he like wears it to signings. Like when he's off signing his comics and books, he wears the Bart Simpson tank. And, you know, Jordan has a swimmer's body because he is a swimmer.

He's a big, strong chest and arms. also, I think he has the spirit to carry it off. I don't think I have ever had that spirit. I almost always am wearing long sleeves to cover not my tracked marks, but my shame. So in a vacuum, I'll tell you what Leah said in a minute, but in a vacuum, you're not married to Leah, Jesse, nor am I. I don't believe you are. No. No. So, I mean, is Leah's husband carrying it off? Let's take a look at the thing again, Jesse. You're a sartorial expert. Is Leah's husband carrying this off? No. Yeah. All right. Let me give you the context then, which is that I said to Leah, why don't you like it? And Leah provided two reasons. One is that Leah works in sustainability. And, you know, we've talked a lot about meat and we are three of us carnivores. And yet, I am absolutely cognizant of the fact that, you know, not only are there all.

kinds of ethical problems with regard to the treatment of animals, but factory farming on its own is an ecological disaster. 100%. And so the meat tornado element of this bothers Leah, which is, you know, she was like, I'm very happy with Nick Offerman. I wouldn't mind a Nick Offerman t-shirt. Sure. But this one bothers me.

And then she also feels that her husband knows this and is wearing the t-shirt to troll her. And that I do think is an anti-marital thing to do. I will say I do still have the t-shirt, but I also, regardless of Megan's distaste for a sleeveless t-shirt, I've aged out of sleeveless t-shirts. Like, I have always been athletic. And actually this year, I put on a bunch of muscle because I'm playing a former pro wrestler in a new David E. Kelly show that's coming out next year. Listen to this. Listen to this expert in the plugging, Jesse. Uh, and so I got, um, I got what they call somewhat jacked.

Yeah. And, uh, dare you to prove it. Have you to prove it. Oh, oh. No. Wow. Any questions? Just stunned silence.

Would you say that that is proof? That is fair proof of jacked, does jackedness. I just, I just showed the judge a photograph. Yeah, we'll send that to Jennifer Marmer. And when she wakes up. in five weeks. She'll put it on the social media page, if you don't mind. I won't. Okay, fair enough. I've chosen not to make that the story. I understand. I don't. Well, people can, I guess, watch the show and see it for themselves. You'll see on the show that

I put on a bunch of muscle. That's what we call in podcasting, French toast with ketchup, a tease. That's right. So you put on a bunch of muscle, sorry. With a wonderful Hollywood trainer named Grant Roberts, who like, who does, he did it with Kumail. He just did it with Sydney. Sweeney for her boxing movie yeah um and so kind of for the first time in my life since my days of football uh i should be wearing sleeveless t-shirts like if if yeah if at any time and i no longer uh feel like it because now it feels um like peacocking yeah it's because it is it's saying check out my my dope muscles everybody right and i'd rather i found that it's better to cover them up and have people say, whoa, what's under there?

Well, I appreciate your modesty, and I'll feel your dope muscles later when I give you a hug to say thank you for joining us here on the Judge John Hundred podcast to resolve all of these disputes. Here is the book, it is called Little Woodchucks by Nick Offerman, featuring 12 projects for kids and adults, Offerman Woodshops Guide to Tools and Tom Fulery co-written with Lee Buchanan. That's right. And then I'm going to see you later this evening at a special screening for a new. a new TV show that you're a part of, a historical drama, if you will. That's right. It's called Death by Lightning on Netflix. And it's the story of James Garfield, his unlikely election and subsequent demise.

And he really hated Mondays, I hear. He did. Sorry. I apologize. Jesse, I'm firing myself from the podcast forever. Maybe you want to read the credits before I go. Sure. The docket's clear.

Judge John Hodgeman, created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode recorded by Jacob Derwin at Technica House in New York City, the podcast edited by A.J. McKeon. Daniel Spear is our video producer. The show is produced by Jennifer Marmer. Photos from our program are at Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. We're on TikTok and YouTube at Judge John Hodgman pod, where you can visually assess Judge Hodgman's reaction to a photograph of Nick's jacketness and thus, in full. How Jacked Nick is, using the power of your eyes. Follow and subscribe at Judge John Hodgman Pod

to see our episodes and our video-only content. But P.S., does your audience know about your calves? Oh, they're about to find out. John brings it up all the time. The judge legitimately has insanely gorgeous. You see his calves, and you're like, were you an Olympic shot putter previously? Only my calves.

They're, I mean, hey, I don't know what to say. It's the only part of my body that looks like marble. They're wild. Well, Nick Offerman, thank you so much. You are indeed one of my favorite snacks in many ways. And we enjoyed some snacks today, but we are still looking for some snack disputes for a all-snacks episode we have coming up. Did you grow up in a cheese nips household? How are you adjusting to the real world? Is there a bandmate who brings something stinky on the tour bus that he or she or they like to snack on that you simply can't abide? Do you ever eat kimchi out of a jar at 2 o'clock in the morning? Try adding some mayonnaise.

I don't know what that is. Why would I know? In any case, send us all of your snack-related disputes to Maximumfund.org slash J-J-H-O, or you can email me directly, Hodgman at maximumfund.org. But we don't want to just hear snack disputes, right, Jesse? Whatever your case is, send it to us at maximum fun.org slash j-j-j-h-o. Big or small, we judges them all. We can't make our show without you, so please go to maximum fun.org slash j-j-j-ho.

Thank you to the great Nick Offerman. Go buy his book, and we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network. Of artists-owned shows. supported directly by you