Judge John Hodgman - There's No Crime Like the Present

Episode Date: September 11, 2013

Emily and Otto have a dispute about gift-giving - when is it required? Otto works long shifts in a remote location and says it's difficult to find time to buy traditional presents. Emily still wants him to recognize holidays and birthdays. Can the Judge resolve their problem at present?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm your guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte from 93.9 The River in Northampton, Massachusetts. This week, there's no crime like the present. Emily and Otto have a dispute about gift giving. When is it required? Otto works long shifts at remote location and says it's difficult to find time to buy traditional presents. Emily still wants him to recognize holidays and birthdays with gifts. Can the judge resolve their problem at present?

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. A miner's life is like a sailor On board a ship upon the waves Every day his life's in danger. Still he ventures, being brave. Watch the rocks, they're falling daily. Careless miners often fail. Keep your hand upon your wages

and your eye upon the scale. Emily and Otto? Union miners stand together. Do not heed the coal board's tale.

Keep your hand upon your wages and your eye upon the scale. Guest bail with Monty Belmonte. Swear him in. Emily and Otto, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, Santa Claus or whomever?

I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that his presence is present enough? I do. I do. Thank you, Judge Hodgman. You may proceed.

You may be seated, Otto and Emily, for an immediate summary judgment in your favor. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I murdered as I entered the courtroom? Emily, can you? No, I was hoping for Gift of the Magi, because if there's anyone as dysfunctional at gift giving as us, it's Jim and Del. Oh, all right. I didn't prepare for sea shanties. All right.

Hairbrush traded for stopwatch. No, not stopwatch watch fob otto you know i could not guess it either i've heard many music like that but i do not know that one you've heard a lot of music like that yes sir that that was the the the traditional uh welsh miners song a miner's life as recorded recorded to my ears by Billy Bragg as an extra track on his communist album, The Internationale, which is where I learned about the mining life, going to Yale University and listening to cassette tapes in the early 90s. But you, sir, are a miner. Is that not true or do I misunderstand? I work for a mining industry. i'm kind of a support person okay and and where where by support you mean you hold up

the tunnels no i i am a i am a lab technician so i do a lot of laboratory testing so not a lot of rocks are falling on your head nope no But you are working out in the field? Yes, I am at the mine site. And the mine site is where in the world? 600 miles north of Anchorage, Alaska. Boo. I didn't know it went that north. Let me ask you, are we in 30 days a night territory here?

Do you have a vampire problem? It's 30 days of summer currently, so no, there are no vampires currently. Okay. So what time does... It's being to you in Alaska now, sir? Yes. Yes, we're in Alaska. And Emily, you also live in Alaska, but this is part of the issue is that Otto is not home for, was it two weeks out of every three? Is that correct?

Right. The kids and I live in our house in Wasilla, Alaska, and he goes to work for two weeks at a time and comes home for one. Now I'm going to do you a favor and I'm going to make no comment whatsoever on the fact that you live in Wasilla, Alaska. And I make no promises. We can see Russia from here. Say it again?

You can see Russiaussia from here say it again you can see russia from here yeah i'm sure you guys have been bombarded by all of your your friends and colleagues in the lower 48 over the past several years about the fact that you live in wasilla but may i ask you just a few questions about it sure uh how long have you lived there about About five years. And where did you live before there? New Orleans. All right. I was going to say, so you're both native Alaskans then, but obviously that's not true. No, no, no.

We're just here for his job. Okay. So you worked and lived in the Gulf in New Orleans, sir, before this? Yes, that's correct. I worked for a mining company down there, believe it or not. There's no mines, but there was a mining company. Oh, okay. And what kind of lab teching do you do? Research and development around mining, how to better get the metals out of the ground. All right. Now, when you knew you had to move to Alaska for your job five years ago, and this is 2013, so this was well into the first term of the current president, Barack Obama. So you chose to move to Wasilla because of its national prominence due to its former mayor?

Nope, it was just nearer to the job. It's a nice place to live, and it's not too bad. Yeah, no, no. But it was just nearer to the job. The reason I said, let's pass over that without comment, and then began to comment only on that, is that I realized suddenly, it's like, yeah, all we know about wasilla is a punch

line for the most part the sarah palin thing happened right after we got here oh it did yeah okay i thought yeah i think it was just we arrived in 2007 so so then right about right about okay excuse me i think late summer they started to announce right right excuse me so all right sorry i i had the timing wrong so you so so when you when you move there you did not know that wasilla was going to be catapulted into the world eye nope okay and so geographically remind uh those of us who do not know including me where wasilla is in comparison say say Anchorage, which is the only touchstone I know in Alaska.

We're about an hour's drive north of Anchorage. It's very close to Anchorage, and we go to Anchorage to shop quite a lot, actually. Okay. And it's a nice small town. It's a nice place to live? Yep. It's pretty nice, spread out, nice rural area, as is most of Alaska. And you have three kids? Yes. That is correct. And how long do you intend to stay in Alaska for this stretch of the job?

We don't know. Indefinitely? We're here. We like it. Yep. Okay. You like it. Where are you guys from originally?

We met in college at the University of North Texas. I'm from Austin, and he had gone there from new orleans yeah i'm from new orleans and i've born and raised in new orleans lived there all my life but alaska is a is a is a considerable meteorological difference from new orleans and for that matter north and central te Texas, right? Yes, that is correct. And, but it is something that is something that appeals to you. Yep. A lot more snow. That's for sure. That was a bit of a culture shock. Okay. And so this job makes it difficult for you to, well, you're, you're,

as you say, you're away for two weeks out of every three. Yep. That's correct. And, uh, Emily, feels that you are negligent in your present giving duties as a husband and father. Or perhaps just as a husband. Yes, she does. Do you acknowledge this crime? I do acknowledge it. I don't know if I quite agree with her, but I do acknowledge that I could do better.

Well, Emily, what is the case that you are making against Otto? He does not give you any presents? Pretty much. I don't know when the good time to bring up evidence is, but I did submit a picture of me on Christmas morning 2009, which was the last time that Otto gave me a Christmas present. So we're talking a few years here. I'm not sure time that Otto gave me a Christmas present. So we're talking a few years here. I'm not sure if I've ever gotten a birthday present. Um, Valentine's day passed this year and I told him, we don't have to buy each other anything. Let's just give each other

something from the heart. And, uh, I wrote him a poem and he said, Oh, you were serious about that. And he said, oh, you were serious about that. So, yeah. So romantic gestures and also tangible gifts. There's not a lot of that. And what about the kids? Do they get birthday presents, Christmas presents? Yes. We're not from a religious or cultural background that frowns on holidays or gift giving.

And so it's not like it's forbidden in the house. He's happy to let me buy presents for the kids. And I pretty much do fill in. He's happy to let me buy presents for the kids and i pretty much do fill in he's happy to let you buy presents for the kids yes and he's happy to accept a present i mean he doesn't usually like the things that i get for him but he's happy to accept a present all right monty make a note we're going to get back to the presents that emily bought for auto okay okay i i think it's i think you know it's interesting how how completely this this present moratorium in your husband's life has worked its way into your psychology that part of your argument is yeah we're not seventh day adventists we actually do believe in presence like yeah well i wanted to to make sure it's clear that it's not like it's

his background that he doesn't give presents. His mother gives us presents. He was raised that way. And Otto, why don't you give your wife Christmas presents? It's very hard to sneak around and get her presents. I work two weeks at a time where I have no real option of shopping there. And it's very hard to hide stuff online in this day and age and get stuff ordered without my wife knowing because she's very good at knowing what I'm up to. It's very, very difficult.

Is that part of the problem, Emily, that you're snooping? Well, I'm the one who handles the finances at home. And so I think he's talking about making a credit card purchase. I'll probably see it when I'm doing the bills. making a credit card purchase. I'll probably see it when I'm doing the bills. I think that's part of what he wants out of this ruling is that I will make either a separate account or a separate fund just for him to spend out of. Sorry, I think I hear a seaplane landing. Yes, that would be an airplane. One of the joys of Bush, Alaska is some of the bush planes.

Yeah, I guess it wouldn't be. Well, the bushes are from there too. I guess it wouldn't be a seaplane where you are, but there are a lot of airplanes around there, aren't there? Yes. A lot of small aircraft. All I know about Alaska I got from John Roderick and the Michael Chabon novel, The Yiddish Policeman's Union. Are you familiar with the band The Long Winters? Yes. I'm not. Oh, well, maybe a Christmas gift idea for you, Emily. You can give him a CD of putting the days to bed.

Oh, he's making a note right now. And have you read The Yiddish Policeman's Union by Michael Chabon? I have not. You might enjoy it. It's based in an alternate universe, Alaska. More so than usual. Sort of like 60 miles north of Anchorage. in which more so than usual sort of like 60 miles north of anchorage in which the the the the european jury after world war ii did not settle in israel but were given land in southern alaska

to settle in sitka alaska and then 50 years later alaska is a de facto israel but alaska is being repatriated to the united states at that point. And so big changes are happening. It's a good novel. Good book. Sounds interesting. Yeah. Another gift idea. Alaska themed gifts for both of you. What did he get you for Christmas in 2009, Emily?

Well, if you look at that picture, I am holding a Christmas ornament. This is probably the most thoughtful gag gift I've ever received. So the ornament is depicting a scene from Gone with the Wind, which is my favorite movie, so he did good there. If you press a button on it, it's the closing scene where Rhett says, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. Is that true Otto, you just don't give a damn?

No, I don't just don't give a damn. I try. So I tried it with that present. I saw it and I knew it was for her. And that's that's part of it. For all these reasons. It just fit her and it fit us. And it really did. That's kind of why I got it for her. It wasn't because I was looking for a present. It was just that one fit. So you're sort of one of these when inspiration strikes kind of guys like, yeah, once every five years I see the perfect thing and I get it. Yeah, that would describe me. Yes. And of course it is. I acknowledge that it is hard to see the perfect thing when you are living in a part of the world where it is night and cold a lot of the time,

not as much window shopping as there would be say uh in parks low brooklyn and you are also working and living in a remote location for two weeks out of every three describe to me a little bit about what your life is like uh on the site it's kind of like living in college. I have a little dorm room that I call my own. They serve us food. We have a form of internet. I wouldn't call it much faster than dial-up because it's shared with about 500 people. And that's about it.

We're stuck there for the two weeks. We can get out in an emergency if we had to. You got any cool posters in your dorm room uh i got a couple of hand-drawn things from the kids yeah so pictures of the kids and family so that's the lonely times there in the dorm room is how emily found out about the credit card charges am i wrong about that that's why you don't have a credit card anymore you're so careful about what you're buying because you know she can see it. Is this why you're so intent on reminding us that the Internet is really slow? It's really on your mind?

Because everyone is on it doing exactly that thing. I don't know. You mean buying presents for their wives? Buying presents for their wives. Yes, absolutely. During the lonely time. It does. It slows things down.

Yes, absolutely. During the lonely time. It does. It slows things down. And right now we're recording in August of 2013. Actually, I don't know the time zone difference. Is it still August there? It's still August, although it feels like it might be October. It is fall already here. Yeah. And so in the height of summer, so are you in are you, are you in Wasilla now, sir? Yes, I am on my R&R in Wasilla.

All right. So you have an R&R. Boy, they treat you rough in this lab. Rest and relaxation. No, no, I understand what it is. It's the way I live my life. But I just mean to say like that you are, that you are, your job as a lab technician, you are a highly trained technician, correct? Yes.

You're not a soldier you're not a mercenary no but it's two weeks on one week off that is almost de facto sort of a militaristic life where you get r and r of one week yep that it's it's very similar when you sang the welsh song there it's very similar to piracy or shipboard days where you would sit there go out to sea for your time and come back get back in town and spend all your spoils and how do your kids uh uh handle this are they okay with it they're okay with it's all they've known unfortunately pretty much i would like to be born into it and one of them was still a baby when he started you have three children yes boys girls three daughters girls what are

their what are their ages we have a seven-year-old a five-year-old and a nine-month-old oh congratulations well thank you so do you do you see this rotation style of work going on just like your term in alaskafinitely? At this time, yeah. I don't see it's difficult, but it has its benefits too. What are its benefits? I mean, I presume you get wages and benefits. You get a large... Lots of time off and the pay is pretty good.

So it keeps the family happy. So we can go out and enjoy two, three, four, eight week vacations if we feel like. Plus he gets to live like a faux bachelor. He doesn't have to be here. I think he enjoys that. I actually feel it could be very healthy for a marriage, to be perfectly honest. Yeah, pretty much. It's all we've known.

We took this job not long after getting together. I don't know if she could tolerate me for three weeks at a time. And I, and I love the way that you say we took this job because that's truly what it's like. Yeah. Sorry. We moved here soon after getting together. Emily, do you have, do you have a career or are you just holding down the fort at this time? Yeah. With the kids being so small as they are, um,

maybe eventually I can get a job, but it's not happening right now. Was there something that you were pursuing before your husband kidnapped you and brought you to Alaska to be by yourself for two weeks out of every three? Well, we met in college working at the college newspaper where I was a copy editor. And that's my thing. I tried freelance work for a while. I couldn't balance it very well. How's your internet? Here at the house, it's all right. Yeah?

It's pretty good. You can do some blogging. You can do some Alaskan mommy blogging. Do a little bit of blogging, yes. Do you currently? Yes. I will allow a buzz market of your blog because I'm curious to read about my blog my blog is youth hostile and is in hostile bad attitude yeah i like it uh i'm sorry dot blogspot.com um long spot old school i like

it you guys haven't gotten tumblr yet no i've made a tiny bit of internet fame i sent dan savage a valentine's day present that he tweeted oh it's wait a minute you found time to buy dan savage a valentine's day present oh i didn't i didn't buy it i made it it's a throw pillow you made him a present and you're not even married to him no how do you feel when christmases go by or birthdays go by and Otto has not bought you a present. Well, I do still have things to open because usually I will go out and buy something, wrap it and put my name on it because the kids do notice when there's nothing from mommy under the tree.

What did you buy yourself for Christmas last year? Oh, I have a very nice robe. Nice. What color? Red. All right. Yes. Nice work, Otto. What about your birthday? What did you get yourself for your birthday last year? I don't think I got anything for my birthday now. My birthday falls right before Christmas, so I think that's part of Otto's complaint is that, you know, he has to double up in one month. You could get it all over with. Yeah.

I can understand why that would be a hardship for Otto. Do you act surprised when you open the present you gave yourself, Emily? That's what my mom does when she opens the presents she got for herself under the tree. Mm-hmm. But do you, in acting surprised and buying the present, like I'm sure it's a, you got yourself a boss robe. But you wouldn't be bringing this case to the court of fake justice unless you had feels about this. Here's your chance to tell Otto how you feel when you open a Christmas present, quote unquote, from him that you bought for yourself on Christmas. Well, there's no special meaning there. And that's the thing about gifts is that it's not just a

thing. And that's what he's not getting about it is that to him, a gift is just a thing. And if the other person could have gotten that thing for themselves, then there's no point. He wants me to just go out and get the things that I want. But to me, the purpose of a present is to say something to another person, like, I love you, or I see what you're doing and I appreciate it. And right now I'm getting to be pushing 30. I have been out of the workforce for seven or eight years. I'm starting to look down the future and see the effects

that staying home has had on me. All the physical effects of having children, the effects on my resume of not working. And I need some reassurances. I need him to say to me, you're still pretty, or the work that you're doing here at home is still valuable and appreciated. And I think one way of doing that is recognizing me a few days out of the year and letting me lay down the mantle of being mommy mommy mommy and just seeing that I'm still Emily the person that he married all right I uh I'm convinced Otto how much of a monster do you want to be to make an argument against your wife in this case?

Are you going to go full monster or half monster? Probably half monster. All right, let's hear the half monster. I know that I have room to improve. Otto is a great half monster name. Otto, you don't sound like a monster. No, not to the kids. But no, with buying presents, we dated in college and whatnot you think you're done no but i just it never was a present we never did presents this wasn't our thing we never did it

it's just it was not expected and it was and she stuck around anyway look i appreciate that not everyone's celebration wait a minute i was about to talk there but then i realized you said a thing we never did presents but she stayed around anyway so i think there's precedent there i understand that there are certain people who not everyone celebrates uh christmas not everyone gives gifts during the holiday season there are certain people, not everyone celebrates Christmas, not everyone gives gifts during the holiday season. There are certain extreme sects of, I wouldn't say, there are certain sects of Christianity that frown upon gift giving. Certainly Christmas was never always, it wasn't always a gift giving holiday. Indeed, a lot of the Puritans frown upon that.

But it is pretty common to give presents on birthdays wouldn't you say pretty common right yes not unusual not unusual and so now that you you've established precedent that emily's a nice person who has tolerated over a number of years the unusual, anomalous condition of not just her husband being away for two weeks out of every three, which I'm not judging your job at all i'm just saying that is it is on you it is an unusual kind of job but the truly unusual and anomalous condition of her husband not buying her birthday presents or valentine day presents or christmas presents over a number of years and she has done so uncomplainingly that that precedent has been established i understand but now she is saying to you that this makes her feel bad do you intend to change your behavior as a result should you yes i should and i i see that and i see that it's affecting her as i'm looking across at her right now so but i need to i may i may not even need to go into chambers you may need to let them go into

the chambers the thing there's nothing like makeup gift gift giving. But you don't dispute that you could do a little bit better. In fact, you've said so yourself. Yes, I do not dispute that. All right. Is there any argument that you would make as to why you should not have to do any better? Well, I was raised with presence and whatnot. I really wanted to be from the heart when they meant something. And just because society said, give presents at these times, they always feel fairly cheapened to me because it always feels like it's not that great or there's a trinket.

One of the things that Emily and I have taken to saying quite often is we'll go into a store. Things that Emily and I have taken to saying quite often is we'll go into a store, we'll look at some of the nice pretty cards made by whatever companies make cards and look at them and say, hey, this fits us. I'll show it to her. And then jokingly, we have a couple of quotes that we say to ourselves quite often. I will say, here, you throw this away, which is how we look at cards and other non-durable presents. Yeah. So it's just kind of cheapened. It's commercialized too much somewhat.

And I like getting presents that mean something when I see they mean something. I don't like being tied in. And when I do give her presents, she notices. She remembers that gift from all those years ago. Yes, maybe because there was none in the middle but but well look no one's disputing auto that the that the that the uh the gone with the wind i don't give a damn christmas tree ornament wasn't a great gift that's a great gift it is a memorable it is a memorable gift but hard to top that basically you're basically you're saying i had a good idea you know six years ago let's be honest a pretty good idea yeah that's pretty good i i liked it

no not six years ago i can't do math anymore so so you're saying you have so you're saying your argument is you want to give presence when the inspiration strikes and you're moved by the thing and it's just the right thing. And that for that, and that you are only capable of, of being inspired maybe once every three or four years. I try to be inspired more often than that. It's, it's hard.

You know, inspiration is, is failing in these times. What efforts have you made to be more inspired to give gifts? I did submit a piece of evidence, Your Honor, and it's a picture of our last anniversary. We've been married for almost three years, and so we've had two anniversaries. And so last year was the second, and he sent me flowers, and he was able to order them from the internet up at work and they're beautiful flowers thank you which one of you is going to throw them away

i think emily threw them away talk about talk about talk about substance and substance lists pure token gift giving flowers right. Right. I mean. But I'm a lady. I like flowers. Oh, no. I think, but this is the point I'm making. These are beautiful flowers that would make any woman or man who received them feel happy because they are an expression that someone is thinking about you and cares about you. Right.

Unless you knew those flowers were coming because you checked your internet records about credit card purchases. Yeah, how did you sneak the flowers through, Otto? I called the florist, checked the delivery times and billing times, and I waited to the very last moment to order. Not because I planned this out. Not because I was late and thinking, oh, I should get something. I orchestrated not having that purchase go through to the bitter last moment, hoping that she wouldn't see them. And all I had to do was hope.

And because she managed not to see them, they actually went through and she was surprised. How important is secrecy of a present to you, Otto? To me, it's not necessarily secrecy. It's to you, Otto? To me? Yeah. It's not necessarily secrecy. It's the unexpected. It's not keeping it a secret. It's just making it unexpected.

Something you wouldn't otherwise get yourself. I would imagine receiving a present from you would be an incredible surprise every time it happens. Twice a decade. At this point, probably, yes. At this point, at this point, probably, yes. Emily, is this a factor of Otto's job? Or is this or would he behave the same way even if he were at home? I think it's mixed because he's got slightly ulterior motives going into this case because he's hoping that if you rule that he doesn't have to give me presents, he's able to hold that up and say that

I shouldn't give him presents anymore because what he really wants, he doesn't usually like the things I get him. He wants for me to not give him presents, but instead just give him standing permission to go out and buy the things that he wants. Is that so, Otto? Somewhat. I mean, within reason.

I'm not going gonna go out on a spending spree but my taste at the company store you're not gonna go out and buy i'm gonna go to the mine store and spend your company script on a bunch of oh henry's back around oh henry i brought back around nice what is it what is it that gave you? Name one present that she gave you that you did not like. I'm trying to, I'm trying to remember. See, problem is,

is that I don't remember some of these presents because they don't stand out in my mind. The last one I remember. The gone with the wind ornament. Right. She's, she gives you very unmemorable presents. Yeah.

And I mean, one, one present I remember that I do like, and I, I keep it stored away because I like it so much is I have a hat that she gave me from a TV show that at the time, despite it being very old and being rerun, we were thoroughly enjoying it.

So it's a hat from one of my more favorite characters of that show was Oslo from keeping up appearances. Oh, all right. I don't know if you recall Oslo's demeanor, but I'm very similar to him. Is that a British show? Keeping up appearances.

Yes, it is. Right. That's a, is that, uh, uh, the,

the woman whose name is bucket, but she insists that. All right. Yeah. And she insists everyone call pronounce a bouquet. Yes. And so this is her schlubby brother-in-law. Oh, okay. And so you got, you got him a hat. Well, describe, yeah. And she insists everyone pronounce it bouquet? Yes, and so this is her schlubby brother-in-law. Oh, okay.

And so you got him a hat? Describe the hat. So it's like a navy blue trucker hat. Yeah, navy blue trucker hat with FH, with Fulton Hogan. Fulton Hogan, which is an Australian company, so I had to write to them directly to get it. You Alaskan nerds. So it's adorable.

And I remember, and I greatly appreciate that gift. And when was that one? Oh, that was a while ago. I think we were still in New Orleans at the time. And how does it make you feel, Emily, to know that all the Christmas gifts and birthday gifts, I presume you're pretty regular in giving gifts to Otto? Oh, I do for him. Yeah. And he forget and he has forgotten every one of the ones that you've given to him. Yeah, I do for him. Yeah. And he forgets and he has forgotten every one of the ones

that you've given to him. Yeah, I did make him a quilt for his birthday. You made him a quilt for his birthday? Yes. To take up to his little dorm room,

his sad little dorm room at work. It's twin sized for his tiny little bed. Do you share a room, Otto? Do you have a single? Do you have a roommate? I share a toilet

and a shower with a suite mate. But the room is my own. And you have a single? Do you have a roommate? I share a toilet and a shower with a suite mate, but the room is my own. And you have a common room? Yeah, and we have amenities that are available to everyone at all times. So like a workout room. You're really selling me on this installation. We have amenities that are available to everyone at all times. We have a bathroom. We have a gym.

There's also a continental breakfast available every morning between 6 and 10. Technically, yes. 5 and 8. 5 and 8 is when it's available. And you didn't like this quilt that you got? I do like it, actually. This quilt that she made?

You couldn't remember that she made a quilt for you? I did forget about it. He doesn't care for quilts, but it's what I know how to make. Do you keep the quilt locked up in a closet like you keep your special hat locked away? No. He hasn't taken it to work. I have not taken it to work yet, though, because I'm always very hot.

But I might take it up this next time because the winter is coming now. When it's winter there, do you work through the winter? Yep. 24-7 operation. And when it's the dead of winter and you're there for two weeks uh how much sunlight do you get uh we at where i work get 21 days of solid night all right and do you go outside or do you work in a lab i do go outside i am a field technician now so you're going out into the night to brave the vampire swarm into the cold what's what's the temperature get to be like

uh coldest i have seen is minus 50 it's so cold you can see it minus 50 fahrenheit yes the fahrenheit what kind of spacesuit do you have to wear to be in negative 50 Fahrenheit? It's quite a spacesuit. Lots of layers. Lots and lots of layers. And then what do you do? You send down a probe or something? I do all sorts of wonderful things related to mining.

Right now, I take environmental samples. So we'll go out and download weather data that tells us that it's really cold outside and vice versa. What do you mean download weather data? You feel the temperature and you write it down? We have weather stations located on the tops of some of these mountains. And I have to go to the top of the mountain. What is your degree in? Photojournalism.

All right. What? Some of this doesn't make sense. Are you guys actually guarding a crashed alien spacecraft? Is that what's going on? Is this a black ops situation?

Maybe. Notice the silence. So let me ask you this question quite seriously. Do they provide psychological counseling for you at the installation they will get you a flight out of there how many people bug out every season every dark season they're they're a couple a couple so how many people are on site in the dead of winter about 300 300 people and two and two go mad we we will deal with them as we need to oh my goodness jeez sparker spooky because all right uh i think i've heard everything i need to to order to make my decision. I'm going to go into total isolation in sub-zero temperatures for two weeks while I consider my ruling.

And then I will come back and tell you who is right and who is wrong. And hopefully then it will be daytime. Please rise as Judge John Hodgkin exits the courtroom. Otto, Emily. Yes. I'm not going to recommend this book, but I think it's an important kind of topic for the conversation. There's a book called The Five Love Languages,

which is sort of a marriage hell book, but it's veiled with lots of Christian viewed with a lot of Christian thought. I don't know if that's up your alley or not. That makes it circles around the mom groups that I'm in. Okay. And we've talked about that before a little because there's the language of presence. That's right. I think Otto is more of the language of service.

He does things and that shows his love. Right. For those who have never heard of it, it talks about the different ways people like to give and receive love. And most people oftentimes like to give love in the same way they like to receive love, not unlike gift giving. So if Otto doesn't like giving gifts, Otto, do you like receiving gifts? It's very hit or miss for me. It is. So I'd say no on that.

But Emily, you not only like receiving gifts from your husband, you like giving gifts to your husband and giving gifts to people like Dan Savage. Giving gifts is just what gives you joy. It is. Do you think, Otto, that might be something that could be helpful as your relationship goes on? Yes, yes, I do. And I think I've learned a lot just from being in this courtroom. Are there other things, Emily, that Otto does or doesn't do that are odd in regards to your relationship? Missing pieces? He's a self-proclaimed nerd. So there are times when I find gaps in his knowledge about how to interact with normal human beings. Yes. and his knowledge about how to interact with normal human beings. Yes.

I would be lying to you if I didn't say that when I envision Otto alone away for two weeks that it's like he's on Jonathan Colton's Skullcrusher Mountain with a secret lair and all these minions doing his bidding and that maybe he brought you up to his mountain one time. Is he an evil dark overlord of some sort? More or less yes have you ever given emily a present not on a holiday or birthday auto yes i have when he knew i was bringing this case it was that was incidental that was incidental so i did buy her a present as a reward for enduring a trip with some in-laws, which I always know is stressful. He did give it to me on the trip with the in-laws, and it was lingerie, so that was weird. But it was a gift, technically.

So you're on a trip with the in-laws, and he gives you lingerie. So maybe the love language that he speaks is the physical affection, especially having been away for two weeks at a time. Sure. OK. Yes. We'll be back in just a moment with Judge John Hodgman's decision. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org.

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27th visit made in cookware.com that's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom thank you guest bailiff Belmonte. My pleasure. You may be seated. When you are young people and you are in love and you are not yet married or newly married, you know what doesn't matter? Presents. Doesn't matter, particularly if you're living in New Orleans, which is a present to both of you all the time,

because it is fun times. And you're with each other, and you're probably drunk, or at least enjoying some fantastic jazz music. By the way, not to run down Wasilla, but New Orleans is a great jazz town. Did you know that?

Is it? So I've heard. Yeah. I mean, like, I know it's a cliche, but there are young people making crazy old timey music there that sounds awesome. Trombone shorty. And it is true in a situation like that, that the gesture of gift giving is less important because every moment of every day together is a kind of a gift that you give to each

other and you don't have a lot of kids distracting you or whatever. But now you are in a different environment, literally. You are both in an environment of isolation from each other and from the world. And isolation is a difficult thing for marriages to weather easily. You guys are in a weird position because not only have you moved away from the world that you know into a world that is different, but that world that you live in that is different

is also meteorologically very challenging and not necessarily prone to long walks outdoors all seasons of the year. And therefore, you get stuck indoors a lot of the time, even if you don't go and live in a mine camp two weeks out of every three. And you are isolated from each other because he's up there. Otto's up there in the wild north in sub-zero temperatures. Living in a dorm room like some kind of frozen college sophomore. Isolation can do two different things. One, it can make you intensely aware of yourself and your condition i think the long nights of alaska quite reasonably are are prompting emily

to take the long-term look on her life because in the deep dark night of the soul it's always three o'clock in the morning and you have whole seasons where it's always three o'clock in the morning and the isolation that otto is enduring uh is the kind of isolation that convinces him that anomalous behavior is okay and fine because there is no real world test outside of the extremely unusual society that he lives in, to say to him, what you're doing is really weird and different. And so it might just take a simple moment of talking to someone on the internet to be reminded, oh yeah, it's kind of weird that I don't buy my wife birthday presents. And when you're in isolation, presents and when you're in isolation birthday presents Christmas presents loving gestures and contact of any kind become all the more important Otto I

think that you're a pretty good gift giver when you put your mind to it every three or four years or so and I think you obviously love your wife and she you. And I appreciate that you don't like gifts just for the sake of gifts. But disliking gifts just for the sake of gifts is a luxury that you can enjoy only when the gestures of being together are so abundant and so casual that buying someone something is unnecessary.

But you are a sailor. You are a sailor. You are a miner. You are an astronaut in a deep, dark sea of night. You have left your wife and your children behind for good reasons, which are that you are making a life for yourself and your family, and she is, you know, feeling lonely for her husband, and perhaps even in the world

now is a time when those gestures no matter how small and are the most important and i encourage you to make them i am even though your surroundings suggest that you do not live on earth among normal people, it is more important than ever for your own psychological health to remember that you do live on earth around normal people. You are not just all bug out cases guarding a frozen alien body in the far North, uh, getting ready to turn on each other like in John Carpenter's The Thing. I realize that was the far south. It was the farthest south you could go, but you know what I'm saying. Ease up on me, frozen nerds.

Therefore, as it should have been obvious from the moment we connected via internet, I obviously order you to start giving your wife a birthday present, a Christmas present, an anniversary present, and a Valentine's Day present. I don't care. Can I ask for one more thing?

Sure. You can ask for two more things. You live with three small children by yourself in Wasilla, Alaska. You can ask for whatever you want, dear. How can I make this easier for you? She wants to be vice president of the United States. Well, that's the thing. With the small children,

they don't have money or transportation. They're going to need help on Mother's Day for at least the next five years. Can I ask for that as well? Mother's Day? It is so rude. Okay. These are the baseline

marital gift giving situations. And it's not because people are all superficial, materialistic jerks. And we're not all controlled by the greeting card industry, by giving presents at certain times of the year. There are moments where we express, through the gesture of generosity, appreciation for the other person. Now, Mother's Day is a bogus made-up holiday, obviously. But no mother on earth, I think,

deserves a present more than Emily on Mother's Day for living. Look, you both Alaska has a lot to offer, but, you know, living in a isolated place away from her family with three small children and without the help of her husband on her own, looking down the long, dark tunnel of the rest of her life, because that's all she has to think about. She deserves some gesture of appreciation. Just as you do, sir, on Father's Day for working so hard and going out into terrible cold temperatures and bringing the company script back for your family so that you can eat. And I think more than even appreciation,ily deserves distraction the music of the long winters would be a great present for emily a novel called the yiddish policemen's union by michael chabon would be a great present uh any uh uh we were talking about friday night lights have you seen that emily i haven't no i haven't either and i probably never will great show

maybe you could resolve the problem in my marriage where i challenged my wife to read game of thrones and if she did i would then watch friday night lights and make her happy and guess what she didn't do read a game of thrones so i'll never get to watch friday night lights you could do both you can you could you know what you can get her uh auto you get her get her the complete run of friday night you can get her? Otto? What's that? You get her the complete run of Friday Night Lights and get her the books, A Game of Thrones, A Storm of Swords,

A Clash of Kings, all of them, all those books. Dance with Dragons. Dance with Dragons and A Feast for Crows. Not in that order. Okay. The Song of Ice and Fire, which sounds exactly like

The Life You Live, Winter is Coming. Offer her the distractions of great culture and the consolations of great television song and literature and she will feel incredibly appreciated and she'll

be happy for the rest of her life or send flowers or something. You have to acknowledge these things and it doesn't have to be things either. If you're truly

anti-materialistic, remember how she sent you that poem? Yes. Yeah, you could write a poem. You could write a letter. It's still just, what is it,

38 cents? 43 cents? 53 cents? I get the forever stamps. Get a forever stamp. The Johnny Cash ones. Yeah, get a bunch of forever stamps. That could be your gift to him. Send her a note from the dark.

Send her a note written in blood. They are coming. They are coming. The walls have not held. They are coming. Dark wings, dark words. You are busy two weeks out of the year but you have a week and then two weeks out of the year that's i'm talking about my schedule you are busy you are very busy two weeks out of every three and then you have a week to recuperate and i'm sure you need to do a lot of recuperating and you need to spend a lot of time just sort of vegging out and being with your family and i appreciate that but you have to set some time aside to think about um

the the these basic holidays and making laying some plans in order to make your wife happy do you do you understand what i'm saying yes Yes, I do, Your Honor. Literally the smallest thing. Like, you have already done literally the least you can do. If you make even the smallest amount of effort. In a way, you have lowered the bar for husbands everywhere so low. You have changed the expectations so dramatically. You are living in a room by yourself for two weeks out of every three and you've not given given your wife an anniversary present or a christmas present in four years like anything you do at this point would look fantastic

and would mean a lot and uh emily yes you need to get this guy some means of paying for these presents on his own okay get him a debit card or uh get him a give him a christmas only or you know a gift only essentially give him a gift card for you. You see what I'm saying? Yes. One of those prepaid credit cards or whatever, something that's going to fit within your budget. Cause obviously you're taking care of, you're taking care of the money here so that he can, so that he doesn't have the excuse of,

well, I can't keep it a complete secret from you the entire time. So I'm not going to bother. Or maybe a secret account would go real well for Otto during those two weeks. And then you'll get the gifts too. Yeah. Maybe that's the greatest gift you could ever give him. Give him and yourself a gift and get a different credit card account. And I would say, because I think on some level, Otto is kind of a gift card kind of guy.

Like, I think that when you say that he's a nerd and he has difficulty interacting with other people socially, and I think that this is that these natural tendencies are only being heightened by the total isolation among dudes in the far, far north of this great globe of ours. the the the sentimental aspect of gift giving is just a little baseline confusing to him both as a giver and as a receiver such that you know the the hat from the weird british comedy means a lot to him but the quilt that you made with your own hands is like i don't know what in the bottom of his closet right now do you even get a closet up there or just like a a laundry hatch i do have a very tiny closet yeah so it's all my winter gear i think emily you should give him whatever gifts you feel like giving him but i think you've already adjusted your expectations so dramatically that i don't that you that that his not knowing or appreciating that you've given him a present

doesn't even matter to you anymore so you might as well throw them into the sea. But if you take pleasure, give him the presents. At least you'll be teaching him by example. But I do think that, you know, at Christmas time, he might just be a guy who appreciates a gift card more than anything else. So that he can go and get the thing that he wants. Maybe so. You know what I mean? Is that true, Otto? Yeah, I do like being able to buy stuff for myself.

Yeah. So I predict a Christmas where he just gets an envelope full of money that says gun on the front. Whoa. No, no, no. He just wants to buy a gun. No, no, I know. I just, that was one of the best written phrases. That's like the beginning of one of the greatest novels of all time.

I don't know. That's such a great sentence. I guess for Christmas, he'll just be getting an envelope full of money with gun written on the front. Wow. Yeah, just be safe up there. You know what I'm saying? Be safe with your guns. Be safe with the animals.

Be safe with each other. Be safe with your own mental health in the animals. Be safe with each other. Be safe with your own mental health in the dark. When you are, particularly when you are up in the camp. Yep. And get some sunlight, you know, get some sun therapy too. Like go to Hawaii.

I hear Alaskans love to go to Hawaii. Yes, it's right next door you see. Yeah, I see it right there on the map. Yeah, exactly. Alright. This is the sound of a, exactly. All right. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge Sean Hodgman rules. Take care of yourselves up there in Alaska.

That is all. Thank you. Thank you. Otto, do you feel that was a fair decision by Judge Sean Hodgman? I do feel it was fair. I have neglected my wife for so long, and it took the judge to really bring it out and make me realize that. So this was news to you to a certain extent. It had to take your wife reaching out to an internet podcast comedian of some note to set you straight. Some note, some note.

Of some note. All right. I've heard of him. Emily, I think that it sounds from the very brief interaction we've had with Otto that he seems like a decent fella. Yes, he's wonderful. Maybe he's at least willing to try and that maybe all you need to do is remind him once in a while. Yeah. Not that it does not rest on your shoulders, but that as somebody who is also not prone to giving gifts myself, a gentle reminder now and again is never, never hurts. Especially if what you'd like is a dozen

roses once in a while. Right. Well, thank you guys. I hope it works out for you. I hope you get that gun. I hope Emily, you get a dozen roses on a day that was surprising. That is not a holiday. And, uh, i hope you have fun in the dark for two weeks at a time nice talking to you guys i look forward to keeping in touch with you you too thanks thank you be well hello teachers and faculty this is janet varney i'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year.

Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I.

Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. I felt like I was that park ranger talking to Wendy in The Shining. I didn't see The Shining. Can you believe that?

What? I know. I know. I know. I know. I get it every week. That's one thing I need to do. You can rule that I must watch The Shining by the next time we get together.

We all have these blind spots in our cultural education. I was afraid of scary movies as a young person, so I didn't watch many of them. This happens, but seriously, what? Yeah, I know. I love Jack Nicholson, too. I love Stephen King now, too. Well, now you know.

You'll understand my cultural reference. That's why you have to watch The Shining, because you'll know what I'm talking about. The local sheriff talking to Shelley Duvall over the radio. You okay up there, Mrs. Torrance? Over. Yes, we're fine. Over. That's what it was like talking to that couple. Now, if Shelley Duvall references, you want to go Fairytale Theater. A little more comfortable. I don't want to go. Let's clear the docket. Okay. Annalise writes,

My husband Matt and I started playing the point game over ten years ago while living in Sunnyside, Queens. The first person to see a yellow car yells, point, and a point is awarded. There were two point variations. One, given the proliferation of yellow taxis in New York City, calling a taxi as a point resulted in negative ten points. Two, we had many decommissioned taxis in Sunnyside. It resulted in negative 10 points. Two, we had many decommissioned taxis in Sunnyside. Decommissioned taxis called were awarded five points,

given the risk of calling a taxi-like vehicle. We now reside in a New Jersey suburb. We still enjoy the point game, but here's the issue of contention. I believe that since we're out of the immediate New York City area, taxis should count as one full point. In our area, they are equally as rare as other yellow cars. My husband contends that the negative 10 points on taxis must stand in order to keep the game interesting. I request that all yellow cars outside of the immediate New York City area, the five boroughs, perhaps even the property of a Newark airport, be awarded a point. When visiting New York City or

any city with a high number of yellow taxis, the negative 10 points would still apply. I also move to strike the more recent addition of 100 points awarded to yellow and blue vehicles, as that is ridiculous. Thank you for considering our case. Well, this game has been played for centuries throughout every society, and the rules have always been the same. Taxis don't count. All taxis are yellow.

Except for the ones that are not yellow. And those are just weird. Yeah, there's earthy, crunchy, echo machine, green machine-y type taxis around here in Northampton. Never yellow. But, you know, taxis are so frequently yellow that, of course, taxis cannot count on the point game. No matter where you live. frequently yellow that, of course, taxis cannot count in the point game.

No matter where you live. Even though there's a preponderance of yellow taxis in New York City. Still. I don't think you should change the rules of the game just because you moved into the suburbs. Because then the suburbs are changing you. Remember Sunnyside. Don't give up your youth.

Taxis don't count. And play on. Next. Al writes, I'm a federal government attorney. I have a summer head cold. Did I tell you that, by the way? Yes, you did. I've lost my mind.

No, no, no. I'm fine. You're doing great. I've lost my mind. Al writes, I'm a federal government attorney. You know what's great? Monty is hanging out with you here in Western Massachusetts. I love it, too.

This has been a lot of fun. Well, you love it because you live here. Yeah, but I love it when you come. It's always nice. You and your family, when you come to Western Mass, it sort of bookmarks the summer for me in many ways. Oh, that's great. When you come in, I know that we're in high summer, and when it's time for you guys to finally leave, I know the fall has arrived. And I've enjoyed over the past couple of years getting to do these Judge John Hodgman podcasts with you.

I love Jesse Thorne. He is a dear friend, my collaborator, my producer, my bailiff. But you are a really excellent guest bailiff, and it's been fun to do this with you over the summer. Thank you. Well, I'm honored to be in this district as a bailiff. It's sort of in the different circuit courts. Yeah, exactly.

And you're here at WRSI The River, which you can listen to online. WRSI.com, all sorts of podcasts up there as well. You do the regular morning show, you do the Bill Newman show on WHMP, all kinds of things. If you want to get to know this area, you could do worse than by seeing where Monty Belmonte is at any given time and then just hanging around him. Or just don't have to hang out with me. You can just look me up on the internet. All right, let's stop this weepy stuff. I got to go back to the 50 degree below zero total isolation camp that is Park Slope. So let's clear our final docket. I'm a federal government attorney with an internal dilemma. I don't allow internal dilemmas.

But I'll see where this is going. I work for a rotating group of 10 to 12 judges, each of whom I refer to as Judge, insert last name here. However, several of these judges have asked my colleagues and I to refer to them by their first names. I appreciate this gesture and have socialized with some of them outside of work, but I feel the nature of our workplace relationship requires that I respectfully refer to them as Judge at all times, I feel Judge Hodgman, the Internet's foremost podcast adjudicator, is the perfect authority to provide a ruling on this social predicament. Just how should I refer to these esteemed but friendly judges? I guess I appreciate that these hippie judges want to keep it nice and friendly-like. Maybe you're here in western Massachusetts, for all I know.

Like, maybe you're here in Western Massachusetts, for all I know. But I've spent an entire hour listening to a guy lower the expectations for his role in life. You are a husband. You buy presents for your wife. You're a judge. You're called judge. Otherwise, it gets confusing. You don't know where they stand stand You don't know what's what

And then people might start calling me John No thank you You may call me Judge Hodgman You may call me Hodgman It's not John You can call me John Hodgman too I never call you John, I just realized I always call you John Hodgman

Very few people call me John It's weird, It's a weird name when you think of John. John. John. John. I think that Dayquil's kicking in, Monty. Here's what I gotta say. Call these guys Judge. No, you know what you call them? Here's what you call them. Call them the esteemed, but

friendly, Judge Dave. That way you're using their first name, but you're also using the honorific, the esteemed, but friendly Judge. And just call them all Dave. It's you're using their first name, but you're also using the honorific, the esteemed but friendly judge. And just call them all Dave. It's probably their name anyway. They just want to pal around with you, so if you just do a little tongue-in-cheek,

it's probably enough for them. Well, thank you very much, Monty. And thanks to Avedon Ackerson for suggesting this week's case name. Thanks, Avedon. To suggest a name for a future case, like us on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions. I've been your guest,

Bailiff Monty Belmonte of WRSI The River in Northampton. Thanks for joining us for the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Sorry, I stepped on your station ID. Say it again.

It's all right. WRSI.com. I'll see you all back in New York, everybody. Thanks, Summer. Goodbye forever. To Summer. I got scary there because I was concerned.

No. I'm not a crazy Alaskan. Goodbye forever to this Summer. It's been fun. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org. Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all

of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at GoSuperEgo.com. You can find John Hodgman online at AreasOfMyExpertise.com. Find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show, join the conversation on our forum at forum.maximumfund.org and our Facebook group at facebook.com slash judgejohnhodgman. We'll see you online and next time right here on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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