Judge John Hodgman - Tipping the Scales of Justice

Episode Date: April 30, 2014

Marika says her husband Joe's habit of tipping housekeeping and service workers with coins is rude and contrary to the spirit of the gesture. Joe says, as long as he's tipping, what's the problem?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, tipping the scales of justice. Joe and his wife Marika bring today's case. Marika says Joe's habit of tipping housekeeping and service workers with coins is rude and contrary to the spirit of the gesture. Joe says as long as he's tipping, what's the problem? Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. The best tipping advice I ever got

was when I was stationed in Hawaii with the Navy in the early 60s. I was in the officer's club for the first time buying drinks. This was back when martinis were literally 15 cents. Anyway, I was going to tip the bartender a dollar, but one of my commanding officers said, tip him $20. Remember, you're going to be a regular here. And even though $20 was nearly half my weekly pay, I followed his advice. And then on for the next two years of my stay, no matter how packed the club was, and it was always packed with well-tanned women, I'd walk in and the bartender would come rushing over and say, Mr. Cooper, what can I get you? It was the best $20 I ever spent. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to

tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he views all bills under $100 as garbage? I will. Very well. Judge Hodgman? Nice work, bailiff Jesse. Here's $100 bills for your trouble. I said $100 bills.

Or I said $100 bills, I think is what I said. That was terrible. Nice work, Jesse. Here's $100 bill for your think is what I said. That was terrible. Nice work, Jesse. Here's a $100 bill for your trouble. Now I've said it right. Thank you, sir. You're welcome. You've earned it.

I gave that to you to ensure prompt service, which is the folkloric acronym that TIPS supposedly stands for. I don't think that's ever been proven. Joe and Mariko, you may be seated. For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I did not paraphrase, that I quoted directly as I entered the courtroom? Joe, the answer is no.

No? Can I guess? You know that it's not me, right? Because I was never stationed in Hawaii in the early 60s in the Navy. And my name is not Mr. Cooper. So you can take a guess. I say an officer and a gentleman. No, incorrect. This is a real person named Cooper.

But Marika, perhaps you can guess the first name. How many first names are there for men in the world? And it is a man. I'm tipping my hand. I will say Michael. Oh, wrong. I was so hoping you would guess Arthur, because that is the answer. And you've never heard of Lieutenant Junior Grade Arthur Cooper, retired, nor have you ever heard that quote before, unless you happen to have a copy of GQ magazine from June 2001, specifically the package entitled Gratuitous Advice, How to Tip Perfectly Every Time, by a young writer named John Hodgman, who interviewed a bunch of people about situations, concierges, taxi drivers, and in this case, a retired lieutenant junior grade in the Navy about tipping habits throughout time. And that was an oral history of tipping given to you by this man.

And, you know, the thing is that I almost couldn't finish reading this quote. When he got to the point right at the top, this was back when martinis were literally 15 cents. I almost fell over with happiness just imagining a 15-cent martini. That time has passed. But the time of tipping generously has not passed and i realized as i was searching up this particular uh article that i wrote uh let's see 2001 so that was just four years ago uh all the way back then uh i i realized that this is the source of my current tipping procedure, which is to tip furiously and egregiously, far more than you feel you need to, particularly if you are intending to return to a place. But this case is about tipping in a place to which you may never and maybe never want to return, a hotel room.

Is that not so, Joe? Yes. return a hotel room. Is that not so, Joe? Yes. Now, Joe, this is a weird case in that you are essentially the defendant, but you brought the case against yourself using your wife Marika as a proxy. I guess that's right. Yeah. So I don't know what weird mind games you're trying to play here, but you wrote in saying, I bet my wife doesn't like the way I tip housekeepers at hotels. And so I will now put it to your wife, Marika. Is that true? Do you not like the fashion in which Joe tips housekeepers at hotels?

Yes, that's correct. And just to clarify, it's not so much the amount that bothers me, but that he leaves change and not just bills when he tips. Well, you may know that there is a connection between the form of a tip and the amount that is being tipped. Those coins add up to a certain amount of money. So let's get right down to it. When you guys are traveling in hotels, what is your standard for tipping the housekeeper? Sure. So I will, at the end of every day, empty my pockets of any change that might be there and just leave it on the bureau. And the housekeepers do not usually pick it up. When they come the next day, they'll let it sit there because I guess they don't know if it's for them or not.

Yeah, they don't know that it's for you, and they don't by nature want your garbage pedal. Oh, boy, this is not going to go well for me then. So at the end of every day, I just keep adding to the change, and then when it's time for us to check out, I look at how much is there. Usually that's not enough. So I'll add bills to round it up to an appropriate amount and just leave that on the bureau for them to get once we've checked out. Right. But to go back to my original question, what do you consider to be an appropriate amount to tip a housekeeper in a hotel per night?

And I'm talking about a hotel. Well, I think about $3, $2 or $3 a day, depending on how clean the hotel is and how messy we've left it. I will go back to gratuitous advice, how to tip perfectly every time from GQ magazine, June gratuitous advice how to tip perfectly every time from GQ magazine, June, 2001, a young writer named John Hodgman,

having done assiduous research came to the conclusion that the tradition was a chambermaid or housekeeper in a motel, two to $5 per night in a luxury hotel, five to $10 per night. In a luxury hotel, $5 to $10 per night. Now, which would you stay in? A luxury hotel or a chain side of the road type place typically? Somewhere in the middle but closer to luxury hotel. So you're saying $3 to $5? He said $2 to $3.

$2 to $3? Well, that's my opinion. I think Marika has a different opinion. I think he thinks he deserves the money more. Sure. Yeah, of course. I mean, you know, he's a clever guy. He's figured out a way to unload all of his garbage metal on people who clean pubic hairs off of sheets every day of their lives.

Why shouldn't he deserve that money? He's got a system. I'm going to leave a weird pile of change that grows up a cairn of pennies every day until the housekeeper thinks that I've gone insane or she has. And at the very end of it, I'll throw it in her face as I leave. But $2 to $5 a night surprised me because this was not four years ago as I joked before. This is 2001, 13 years ago.

I think probably prices have gone up, but I tend to leave $5 per night as a base minimum no matter what form of hotel I'm staying in. And then if it's a fancy pants place where I want them to really like me, I'll do $10 a night because I feel that way. But I would say $2 to $3 a night, you are,

I would say just right off the bat, even pre- verdict, you're on the cheap end. Oh boy. Now, we'll leave aside the coins for a second here, but don't you agree, sir, that you're on the cheap end? Well, I agree that I'm frugal and not the most generous person. But if they were saying if 10 years ago the standard was, what did you say, $3 to $5?

Then obviously I guess I'm below that and I have a lot of amends to make. Well, let me let me for an immediate summary judgment, not in your favor. Maybe you can name the author of this quote. I appeal to the court. Let me start by conceding that I am cheap. Do you recognize those words, sir? Oh, yes. Yes. That is. Those are my words. Yes. You wrote you are you. You con those are my words. Yes, you wrote. You conceded that you are cheap. And you wrote, at restaurants, I generally aim to tip 15% to 20%, which I think... Where do you live?

Los Angeles. Okay. 15% to 20% throughout the country is pretty standard. In Los Angeles, I would say that that's on the low end traditionally i'll say southern los angeles the south bay which is kind of a different entity but do you concur with that bailiff jesse as a los angelino it's a it's the far reaches of los angeles do you concur with my assessment that for los angeles 15-20% is on the low end of standard or pretty standard? Yes, absolutely so. Oh, boy.

Okay. And then you say, if the service is particularly miserable, I don't hesitate to give 10%. Maybe once or twice in my life, I've left nothing or all. You're really schooling some fools out there in the world of professional food service, aren't you, sir? Take that, dishwashers. Well, I mean, I guess the whole tipping kind of framework, I'm not really sure I understand who's supposed to get tips and who's not. And, you know, if somebody is working at a restaurant and they do a really good job, and we've done, you know,

we have a young son who is not the cleanliest of people. And so if we leave the restaurant particularly messy, I think I tip them well, over 20%. But if we have really poor service and aren't very well attended to, I'm happy to leave 15% or I don't know that. I guess I probably left nothing, but I can't really remember a time doing that. You said maybe once or twice in your life. Yeah, I don't think I don't think that you're a monster. But what I'm trying to get at here is you wrote to me saying that you were cheap, then you changed your tune to say you're frugal.

You wrote to me saying that you were cheap, then you changed your tune to say you're frugal. Is there a difference, and which one are you? Oh, I say I'm frugal. I suspect other people would say I'm cheap. I think cheap is more of a derogatory term. Right. Let me hang on. Marika, which do you think he is, frugal or cheap?

It really depends on the scenario. I don't even think he's either in some cases, but sometimes I think he is frugal. Sometimes when he's not looking, I will add an extra couple dollars to the tip as he's left the restaurant. Really? I don't know that it's purely a matter of whether the adjective is pejorative or not. I think that there is something inherent in being cheap where you are using your frugality to make a point to the world and to punish other people. world and to punish other people. Whereas to be frugal means I only have a certain amount of money I can spend. So I'm going to be careful about what I order and how I spend my money. I guess that kind of goes to the heart of the question of tipping. Is tipping, like you said at the beginning, is tipping there to reward them for especially good service?

Or is tipping expected and just part of the norms of behavior? I guess I fall on the side that it's not, shouldn't be expected or part of norms of behavior and should be used to reward exceptionally good, good service. When you tip in a restaurant, who gets the money from your tip? I think they pull it and split it among them, don't they? I think they pull it and split it among them, don't they? Do you interact directly with – do you have experience with the service provided to you by the people who aren't talking to you directly? Other than tasting it, no.

Do you think that the dishwasher deserved to suffer because you didn't like the waitress? No. didn't like the waitress? No, but I think if the, over time, if the dishwasher realizes that that particular waiter or waitress isn't getting in tips that they might say something and say, hey. He's going to fire that waitress. Yeah, it's true. It's true. The dishwashers actually are the ones who hire or fire waiters and waitresses. You know what I mean.

Yeah, sure. Of course. I love your Ayn Randian explanation about how you're tipping 10% is somehow going to change the industry and the industry is going to self-correct to be more reasonable. Well, I guess it's just the way I was brought up and the way I feel. Have you worked in food service? I worked at a pony keg or a delicatessen in high school and college. That's about as close as I came. Yeah, I'm not going to be holier than thou on this issue. I worked at Claire's Corner Copia in New Haven, which was a counter service place, and then another restaurant. And I was tipped out at the end of the night in the other restaurant. The downtown cafe in Boston no longer exists. But I was not, I was a dishwasher in that restaurant.

So I just, I had to go on faith that Luigi, the waiter, was tipping me out appropriately. But I was never on the front lines. I was never waiting tables, which is where this often this dispute often happens. So I don't want to make you super defensive, because I think there's a better discussion to be having here. I mean, you tip 15 to 20% is on the low end of standard, especially for a big city like Los Angeles. And you can make arguments about whether or not 20% or more becoming even more standard, which happened in our lifetimes. How old are you guys? Early 40s.

Yeah, me too. And Marika, you're the same? Yeah. Yeah. I think when we were kids, 15% was very common. And then it gradually became 20%. And there's no question that there's a certain tip inflation going on that's hard to keep up on. And indeed, in terms of the housekeeper tip, I think that that's going up. And it's not going up just because waiters and waitresses and housekeepers and service professionals are greedy. It's because the cost of living is going up. And this is what I think you understand, but let's just make it very clear here that particularly in the food service industry, the tips have a reputation throughout the world as being a

little extra for extraly good service. Extraly is a word that I made up and it is now in the dictionary. But in the United States, it is a huge portion of that person's regular day-to-day pay. And in the United States, restaurant owners are allowed to pay waiters and waitresses, and I would imagine back of the house personnel as well, much lower than even minimum wage, because the expectation is that the tips will make up the difference. It's essentially a commission type of situation. And you can argue about whether or not this is fair. And many people have made compelling arguments that it is not fair at all. It is essentially pushing the cost of personnel from the restaurant owner onto the people who are

coming there to eat. But it is what it is. And so tipping in a restaurant is such a charged issue because you literally are contributing to that person's take-home salary for the week. And you really are the person, it gives the diner quite a bit of power to take money out that that person might be counting on out of their hands because something didn't go right or they had a bad day. And I have felt, obviously, the desire to tip terribly a waiter. You know what? I'm going to save that for the verdict.

I'm going to save my feelings later for the verdict. Because the verdict is still undecided. Truly. And so I'm going to ask you now, sir. When you tip 10% at a restaurant, how do you feel? Boy, that's a good question. I don't feel good about it. I don't feel like I feel good that I've saved some money, but I feel generally like if I'm going to tip 10%, that means I've gotten really pretty bad service in whatever form that might be. They were rude.

They weren't attentive. They, you know, whatever. And I feel, or at least I hope that by tipping 10%, the person on the receiving end or people on the receiving end will understand why it's so low and maybe it'll help to spur them to do a better job. Marika, when your husband tips 10% in a restaurant and feels vindicated, where would you put the likelihood that the waiter gets the 10% tip and thinks to him or herself, boy, you know what? This guy was right.

I was really off my game tonight. This 10% tip makes me realize I got to do a better job. Where do you put the likelihood there? 100% or 0%? Unlikely. I'd probably say 5%. 5%, right. 5% chance.

And it would probably depend on maybe what other tips they received that day. If they received other poor tips, it may hit home and they may say, wow, I'm off my game. But, you know, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and think if they're off, they perhaps had a bad day, something along that line, where they probably might even need the money more. I would say 5% is correct. I was going to say 0%, but you're absolutely right, Marika. There is, I think, 5% of anomalous waiters in the world who might be weird, insecure, only children who worry constantly about whether or not their party

approves of them and will take a message like a 10% or 0% tip very much to heart and go home and try to think it through by drawing some sketches. But most people in the world I don't know would take that lesson. Now, Marika, with regards to tipping in hotels, what kind of message do you think Joe's leaving change sends that you are offended by? Well, to me, it's clear that he's just dumping this change because he doesn't want it. And in my opinion, when you leave gratuity for someone, you're saying, I am grateful for what you have done for me or what you're going to be doing for

me. And by leaving a pile of dirty change, regardless of if it's the correct amount or if there's dollars with it or not, you're saying, this isn't good enough for me, but here you can have it. And I think it sends a poor message then. If you were going to send money in a birthday card to somebody, you would probably go to the bank and buy a nice crisp $10 bill, let's say, instead of going and getting a roll of quarters for them. So that's, I think. Unless they were like a hired thug, they would probably use the roll of quarters. We haven't sent birthday cards to them in a while. So, you know, what I what I do once a week, I go down to the bank here in Park Slope,

Brooklyn, and I get and I buy 50 rolls of quarters and, and then I rent a convertible and I just drive down seventh Avenue and, and huck rolls of quarters of people yelling, happy birthday, happy birthday. Because, because you know what? I bet some of them are having a birthday and suddenly, and then, and then those who aren't, they get a roll of quarters, you a birthday and suddenly and then and then those who aren't they get a roll of quarters you know and an interesting bruise and a story to tell about how weird john hodgman is and this is how i maintain my status as mayor of park slope but but but i but i but i digress what would you rather have Joe do?

I would rather have him or me. It doesn't have to be him, but I'm happy to put the money out as well. Put a $5 bill out or a $10 bill or whatever the proper amount is and keep the change in his pocket or put it somewhere in his suitcase so none of us have to see it. Marika, where do you guys travel to, and where are these hotel situations happening? Well, now that we have a young child, that answer has changed compared to maybe five years ago. The most recent one I can think of was in San Diego, you know, just a couple hours south of here. Also in the Midwest, when we go visit Joe's family. Nothing fancy.

Right. And are you taking your child? Well, you submitted some evidence, including some information regarding your child. Let me find that here, if you don't mind. Okay. So, Joe, you submitted some evidence, included a photo of your child, which I found to be inappropriate and creepy. That was kind of my last-ditch effort that if I felt that the case wasn't going well for me, which I do, that would be my last-ditch appeal to you is to look at our child and not ruin kind of the image he has in his mind of me. Yeah. Well, how old is your child?

Almost three. It's a boy here. He's three. And here is a photo of him. We'll put this. I mean, I don't know. Should we put it on the blog? I don't think we should put a photo of someone's child on the

blog that's even more creepy creepy and inappropriate than you sending it to me but i'll just describe that he's an adorable young man uh who who shall who shall not be named for reasons of his privacy which joe does not respect and he is covered with food of some kind and he's looking imploringly into the camera and joe writes if you were considering ruling against me think of the impact it'll have on our son how it will spoil his innocence by knocking over the pedestal he puts me on and and i and i have to say that there are two things you don't realize one is that you know a lot of people have children uh and i've seen i've seen them all you know i mean your child isn't gonna your child – I have my own – what you will realize as your child grows up is you don't care about other people's children any more than I care about your child.

And I want everyone to be healthy. But I care about my children, and I don't care what's going on in your family. I want everyone to be happy and healthy. And the other thing you don't understand is your child isn't really putting you up on a pedestal. It's only been a little while since when your child closed his eyes, he thought you disappeared. But I bring this up, even though it moves me not at all because i'm a because i'm

a stone cold monster today uh but i bring it up because you know not merely are you traveling through the world as yourselves uh one of you leaving piles of garbage on the bureau while the other of you kind of feels embarrassed as you slink away from a hotel room. But you now are traveling through the world with a guaranteed hot mess, a three-year-old. And you're going into these restaurants. acknowledge this, don't you, Joe, that now you are causing more trouble and mess for the people who help you in the world, that is to say the waiters and restaurant staff and hotel staff, right? Oh, absolutely. And I think we both acknowledge that and do our best to clean up after him and try to leave it as clean as can be, but he's pretty messy. Yeah. The standard tip for anyone going into a restaurant with a three-year-old is 500%.

It's a little bit more than what you're paying. Okay. So what would you ask me to rule? A clean $5 bill or clean bills per day in a hotel going forward? Is that what you would ask me to rule? Yes, that's correct. All right. That is what I'm hoping for. And Joe, what would you ask me to rule? Well, just to allow me to continue with my practice, and I take your admonishment freely that maybe I need to increase my amount, but if I want to get rid of change, I want to get rid of change, and Marika the same question I asked you, Joe, or as a version of it, I should say. Marika, when Joe decides that you guys have not received proper service, say in a restaurant, and he undertips purposefully, how do you feel? Oh, I hate it. I'm embarrassed. I'm embarrassed. And I sympathize with him to try and up it. And like I said, if he's not looking, sometimes I'll slip a couple extra dollars.

And so what how would you describe the I understand that you hate it. You feel embarrassed. Correct. Would you say you feel ashamed? Sure. Do you feel do you how would you describe the feeling of feeling cheap the feeling of feeling cheap i don't know that they're i don't i'm not saying that there's a there's a right answer to this right right i know that there's a i know that there's a right answer for me and you're going to hear about it soon. I guess I feel that it makes me, I'm a softy.

And so I'd rather not be cheap and, you know, maybe don't go over the top, but also maybe give a little extra than maybe I feel is correct, correctly earned. correct, correctly earned, because then I won't leave feeling this, you know, ball in the pit of my stomach that we didn't leave enough for this person who's working hard for us. So you feel a ball in the pit of your stomach, you feel you feel you feel a knot of nausea. Exactly. I feel guilty. Yeah, you know, that wasn't just the poor food that we received. It could have been the poor food upsetting my stomach. That's correct. Oh, yeah. And Joe raises a good point.

It is the waiter who cooks the food. So you should punish your food server if your food is not exactly to your liking. Good point, Joe. I think I've heard everything I need in order to make this decision. I'm going to go back to my chambers. I've heard everything I need in order to make this decision. I'm going to go back to my chambers. But before I go, you guys, you may not be able to hear over the Internet that my hand is out. It is entirely expected and appropriate for you to tip your judge.

Send me your PayPal account. It's just my email address, Hodgman at maximumfund.org anyone or just go to maximumfund.org dot uh slash donate he has a bag of change waiting to ship to you yeah exactly just just yeah why don't you why don't you mail maximum fun a roll of quarters sir please rise as judge john h Hodgman exits the courtroom. Okay, Joe, I have a question for you. I'm sorry. I don't mean to, you know, but this is a real question.

What do you see as the purpose of tipping? Oh, I think that's a great question. The purpose of tipping is to reward service, reward exceptional service. I think the judge was getting to this earlier. I would love it if we lived in a country, I guess, where everyone earned not just a minimum wage but a living wage and that tipping was not expected. And tipping was really a reward to reward somebody for great service. to reward somebody for great service. And I guess this is my own little civil disobedience to try to get to that place. Wait, so what you're saying is that your vision is of a world

where service workers get paid more, and it doesn't matter how many service workers you have to underpay in the meantime, you're going to get there. Well, that's not how I put it, but I guess you can see it that way. So you mentioned that this change that embarrasses your wife is change that you're trying to get rid of. How do you resolve these two ideas? One, that you're trying to reward people, and two, that you're rewarding people with something that you're, this is a direct quote, wanting to get rid of. Sure. I'm not giving them change as a way to undercut their value. I'm giving them change. I'm giving them a tip.

Say the housekeepers at a hotel. I'm giving them a tip. And I guess we can argue that I'm giving them not enough. But I'm giving them a tip. Whether that tip is in the form of paper dollars or in the form of coins, I don't see a difference there. And if I have a bunch of pennies in my pocket... If you don't see a difference, why do you want to get rid of it?

Oh, because I don't like to travel with coins in my pocket. I mean, they fall out, they make noise, they go through the metal detector. It's just easier to use paper money. But these people, it's not a big deal to them. They need it more than you, so they're willing to suffer the indignity of having coins in their pocket? Well, somebody has to have it, I guess. I don't know. Yeah, I guess it comes down to money is money,

but I prefer folding money, and maybe they prefer coins. My dad, he loved coins and loves coins because he collects them. So he would like to get coins. Well, good. We can ship them all to him then. I think you've got the perfect solution here. You can sell the coins to your dad for more paper money than they're worth since he loves them so much. And then it's extra tip for the people who've cleaned the pubic hairs off your sheets.

tip for the people who've cleaned the pubic hairs off your sheets. Marika, how are you feeling right now about your chances in this case? I'm feeling pretty good. I didn't even have to say much. How are you feeling about deciding to live your life with a monster? I'm just hoping my son has me on a higher pedestal. Oh, he does. Joe, how are you feeling about your chances? Oh, not well at all.

I think I can only hope for the ruling that he already talked about, and nothing particularly more aggressive than that. I think if we go out to dinner tonight, then whoever serves us dinner for a big nice tip. Well, we'll see what the judge has to say when we come back in just a minute. Hey, I'm Jesse Thorne for MaximumFun.org. Last year, we got together with some of our favorite comedians and musicians and put them on a boat. It was a huge success, and we had such a great time, we decided to do it again this summer. The second annual Atlantic Ocean Comedy and Music Festival sets sail on July 25th, though technically there are no sales. Comedians will include W. Kamau Bell, Karen Kilgareff, Greg Barrett, Moshe Kasher, Kyle Kinane, Natasha Leggero, and more.

Our music night is hosted by the great John Roderick of the Long Winters, and you can check out Jean Grey and others. To learn more about the Atlantic Ocean Comedy and Music Festival and to book your passage, visit boatparty.biz. The Atlantic Ocean Comedy and Music Festival. Comedy. Music.. Comedy, music, shuffleboard. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Joe, I must respectfully disagree with my bailiff, whom I was listening to through the walls of my chamber, because I failed to tip the contractor. The walls of my

chamber are made of paper mache and I can hear everything. But I must respectfully disagree. I don't think you are a monster. I don't think that you are a bad tipper with a capital B and T and that rhymes with P and that stands for pool. I think that you are on the low, you represent, I think, a fairly typical understanding of what tips are and a somewhat older perspective on what they are for and how much they should be. A little out of date in terms of the amounts. But I don't think you're a the amounts but i don't think you're a bad person and i don't think you're a bad tipper and i think that you appreciate that you're doing it wrong okay because you came to this court for help you brought this case against yourself marika had

nothing to say as she pointed out because you are because you already know that the world dislikes what you're doing and you know it because you dislike what you're doing because i would submit sir that when you tip 10 or when you leave a pile of chump change uh next to the next to the flat screen on your way out of a hotel room that you do not feel frugal. You feel cheap. You may not be able to identify this feeling, and it may not be a sense of powerful shame. It may be a feeling of righteousness if you have gotten particularly what you consider to be particularly bad service in a situation, but it is still a feeling of cheapness. It is a feeling of smallness. It is a feeling of pettiness. You have taken an opportunity at which

you could act expansively and chosen to act in a small way, in a cheap way. And that is not a good feeling, even when punishment is probably deserved. And there are some occasions where service is so terrible that you feel so mad. You really want to punish someone, and they probably deserve it. But at that point already, the entire relationship is blown. Do you know what I mean? Something has gone totally wrong at that point. And the lesson that you might try to teach this person would probably go unlearned. And then you have another choice in terms of how you act in order to feel a certain way.

Do you act in a punitive way? Or do you act magnanimously and say, boy, you know what, this really went wrong. That said, everyone has a bad day. Everyone makes mistakes. And particularly in the situation of a restaurant, there are other people who are going to get a portion of this tip who had nothing to do

with this exchange that I had with this waiter. It's up to you. All of this is up to you. How much you choose to tip is totally a factor of how you're feeling in the moment and indeed what your means are. You know, I think there are probably a lot of people who are listening to this going, I can't believe Hodgman said that I should be leaving $5 to $10 a night in a hotel. I don't have that kind of money. And you know what? You might not, okay?

But one thing to remember, and this is, I think, really important about tipping, is that a lot of people don't have that kind of money, particularly the people who are changing the sheets in your room. You know, waiters and waitresses, depending on where they work, can make a good living. But it is, you know, one of the defenses of restaurants not paying their staff very well is that it's a very low-margin business.

And that's true also for your service personnel, you know. And so none of these people are making a huge fortune with very rare exceptions by doing things that you don't feel like doing, such as changing your sheets, cleaning up your messes, cleaning up after your son, right? And the tip is not, right, to reward exceptionally good service, not in my viewpoint, in any case. There are two reasons to tip in any situation, one that is profoundly altruistic, and the other that is profoundly selfish, and they go hand in hand. The selfish one, and this is, I think, one that people overlook all the time, is that when you tip, or what some might call over tip, but when you tip generously in an establishment, you're making an investment in a relationship in that establishment, just like

Arthur Cooper, retired Navy Lieutenant Junior Grade, did that you will be you are saying to that person, I want to come here all the time. And here's the kind of here's the kind of customer I'm going to be. And tipping generously is no different than treating everyone in that place with respect and decency is so meaningful, right, that you could under-tip from time to time or forget to tip or blow it off. And you will be more than forgiven when you come back the next time. This has been my experience in all kinds of different social and commercial situations. Do you know what I mean? commercial situations. Do you know what I mean? And this speaks to what the altruistic point of tipping is, which is not to reward, to throw a gold coin at the street urchin who happened to amuse you that morning in a particular way, right? It is to acknowledge the humanity of the people

who are doing the things that you don't want to do. You could look at it as a sort of, you know, you did a good job and here's a bunch of pennies for you, right? Or you could look at it and go, you're doing something I do not want to do. And you're doing it day after day after day. And you're dealing with people who are frankly a lot worse and messier than me a lot of the time and to acknowledge that you are also a human being and that we don't live in a feudal society but are but are people who are here on earth together i'm gonna i'm gonna give you a little something Tipping does not come from like a top-down governmental program. Do you know what I mean?

Tipping emerges from societal process of showing someone else a little bit of extra respect. Thanks for doing that. You know what I mean? And it has come to, as we've gotten more and more remote from each other and our transactions have become much more compartmentalized, it has come to seem as though, oh, I shouldn't have to add 20% to this person unless they really do an amazing job. They do an amazing job most of the time just by showing up. Tipping is a wonderful memory of the kind of gray area that commerce used to inhabit all the time when we would haggle with each other, when we would negotiate directly with each other. And as uncomfortable as that often

makes us, you know what I mean? Haggling and tipping and adding a little extra and withholding a little here and there. It is humans dealing with other humans in a direct way that is basically being phased out by the various companies that shall remain nameless, but like internet commerce and car companies where the tip is naturally included. All of these things that are designed to make self-conscious, usually affluent Caucasian people not have to deal with anybody outside of their world.

So tipping is an act of selfishness in terms of an investment in your future in an establishment. It is an opportunity to act magnanimously when acting cheaply is just going to consume your soul. It is an opportunity to display respect to the person who is sometimes literally cleaning up your feces or that of your son. And it is just a chance to interact with a human in a way that everyone kind of makes everyone could feel good or could make everyone feel bad. good or could make everyone feel bad. So that is my overarching argument for tipping generously, if you are able to do it, or tipping as generously as you can. And my overarching argument for not tipping cheaply, out of some sense that if I do this enough time. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts

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A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. The government is going to create a much higher minimum wage. That math will never work out, sir. By withholding payment from people on the ground of this economy, you are never going to convince states and the federal government to up the minimum wage to $25 an hour.

That's not how it's going to work. So for those reasons, I give you this long lecture, not because I merely like to lecture people, but also because I think you appreciated you needed to hear it. Otherwise, you wouldn't have subconsciously brought yourself before my court, even though Marika has been enabling you for years and years.

Now, here comes the surprise I find in your favor. I don't think there's anything wrong with leaving change in a hotel. I've done it myself. But I would encourage you to reattune or to attune for the first time your instincts to when you are being cheap and when you're being generous. In other words, if you dump a whole bunch of coins on the countertop as you leave, that is not a gracious gesture, right? Even if that amount adds up to $2 to $5 to $7 to $8 per day you stayed there. It's not gracious, right? Money is money and people who need it and will never turn it away but if you feel that what you're doing is ungracious then stop doing that and instead what i would say is this

if you have some change to leave that's fine leaving only change never fine leaving change and some dollars fine leave as many dollars Leave as many paper dollars as you can afford to meet your minimum standard of graciousness for staying in that hotel. And if you have some change left over where you're going to make up the difference in change, that's fine. But don't just scatter a bunch of change all over the bed or whatever it is. And leave a note. Just leave a note that says, for housekeeping, thank you. It may be that the person who gets that note doesn't know how to read that language. But even if that person can't read English, the meaning of the note will be very clear.

And I think appreciated. And also, no pennies. That's your burden. Not anybody else's. Never leave pennies, never tip in pennies. That's, that is, you might as well be sticking your middle finger in another person's eye. So change is okay, but only with, uh, only with paper money, let paper money be, uh, the change of the future. This is judged. Oh, wait a minute. And also remember that by punishing waiters, you're not going to get a living wage for working people in the United States. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules out his all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. How do you feel about your victory, Joe? Oh, I won. It doesn't feel like it. The judge did find in your favor. I feel a bit shell-shocked, but I think he made some good points and certainly something to consider. What do you think you'll be re- reevaluating? Well, the issue of does my action result in a change of other people's action, I guess, is a good point. Is the signal that I'm sending of leaving a lower tip than maybe they expect have the desired effect of improving their service or improving their wages down the road.

That's a good argument. And I can't really counter that. So I mean, I think I need to reconsider that. How are you feeling, Marika? Oh, I'm a bit shocked and disappointed. I guess I'm going to have to accept looking at the change on the Bureau at the hotel rooms and just say I'm a bit shocked and disappointed. I guess I'm going to have to accept looking at the change on the bureau at the hotel rooms and just say I'm sorry to those poor housekeeping staff who have to carry all those heavy quarters around with them as they go from room to room. Joe, have you ever thought about writing a note on the little pad that says thank you? No, I haven't. That's a good idea as well. Well, maybe something to consider

in light of this new focus on graciousness. Joe, Marika, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to be on the podcast and also for suffering my ungraciousness. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, Judge Hodgman. Oh, Judge Hodgman.

A tough case this time out, huh? Tough to decide. I just, I feel so strongly about it. Not really. Not really. It wasn't that hard to decide. I feel so strongly about tipping the people who clean in hotels specifically because they just have the hardest job. And I just think to myself, it's like one of the only places where I have direct control over what someone who has a really hard job gets paid relative to how much money I spend. And I'm like, if I'm paying $100 to be in a hotel,

why wouldn't I make sure that 10% of that goes to the woman who cleaned my shower? And that's the thing. You know, tipping is an area where you do have direct control over how much someone you have personally interacted with or whom you've never seen, but who just silently cleans up your mess, gets paid. And this causes some people who are brought up in the Internet commerce economy to think, oh, well, this is my chance to vote with my dollars and tell them they're terrible. economy to think, oh, well, this is my chance to vote with my dollars and tell them they're terrible. I just think it's more important that people take this as an opportunity. It's like, yeah, here's another human being that I'm in direct contact with. I can show them the best part of myself or the worst part of myself. And that's a great opportunity. Every time you have a chance to tip, do it. You feel good. If you can afford it, you feel great.

And there have been times when I have walked out of a hotel room and I just didn't have any cash. I'd forgotten to get cash. I didn't even have dimes to leave. And I just couldn't leave a tip because I was rushing out the door and there was no time, and I've just felt so bad. It's just the worst feeling compared to the best feeling. So when you have a choice between the best and the worst, here's my advice. Pick the best.

You know, the one other place where I find myself over tipping is in a really reasonably priced restaurant, which is where I don't eat out all that much because I have small children, and it's just not part of my lifestyle. But, you know, like, if I go to a really fancy restaurant, I make a really lovely service, and I'll tip 20%, you know, which is sort of the going rate where we live.

But I do, like, I don't see a reason, just because the restaurant is really cheap to not tip a generous amount of money, even if it ends up being 25 or 30%. That's good. You know, it's $5 or $10 or something, you know, like why not just err on the side of someone who's working really hard getting paid well. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

So it's, it's an, it's an opportunity to be gracious and remember that if you get something taken off the bill at a restaurant because it wasn't prepared properly. And so your bill is, is less than it would have been had it been, had you been charged full price, for example, don't, don't punish the waiter because now your bill is smaller by just tip over tip a little bit to make up to, to tip for what the bill would have been if things had worked out because the waiter doesn't control what goes on in the kitchen. Well, Judge Hodgman, speaking of graciousness, we have some friendships that are being torn apart by tiny disputes that the friends have seen fit to take to a fake internet judge. Shall we clear the docket?

I don't know. How much extra are they going to pay me if I give them good service? Here's something from Jennifer. My friend Luis says that the 2006 movie Once is a musical because it has lots of songs and people singing. I say it's not a musical, but a movie about musicians. I think a musical is defined by the propulsion of the plot through musical numbers and exposition through song. In musicals, reality is suspended. People dance and sing through the streets. The songs at once all organically flow from the mouths and instruments of musicians as they might in the real world. This is not the world of a musical.

This debate involves other movies like Dreamgirls or Walk the Line, which are also about musicians, or even song heavy Disney animated films, which I think are musicals. What makes a musical? Judge Hodgman, please settle this dispute. I think Jennifer is absolutely correct. I have not. First of all, let me admit, I've never seen the movie once, nor have I seen the staged version of it that I now will never call a musical. And so, therefore, I really have no idea what I'm talking about, but that's never stopped me before. I do know that a long time ago, I first started thinking about musicals for the first time as an adult when I wrote a profile of the playwright, David Lindsay, a bear who had begun writing books for musicals. He wrote the famous, perhaps most famous for, for writing Fuddy Mears and the play rabbit hole that became a movie. Um, really, uh, interesting, fun,

Fuddy Mears was very quirky. Rabbit Hole was just a devastating story about a couple losing their child. Surprisingly, it was not made into a musical. But he also wrote the books for the book for the musical Shrek. And when I was profiling him, it was during this time he was working on musicals. So he was thinking a lot about musicals. And I couldn't understand, like, why are people going to see plays where people sing in the middle of them? And he explained to me that the musical moment that happens in a play, people burst into song when they enter into a different reality. And that was how he made sense of it. That is a poetic expression of what's happening that does not affect the reality of the play itself, but is a moment of fantasy that those characters enter into when their emotions reach a high such they cannot be contained within dialogue.

I'm sort of, he said it much more smartly and elegantly than that, but that was what I took away from it. And suddenly the musical theater made a lot more sense. And suddenly I enjoyed musical theater all that much more. And I think that if it's a situation, if once is being described accurately here by Jennifer, that the couple or the musicians in the show are performing music in the context of performing music within the play. Yeah, I agree. That's not musical theater. Whereas obviously when someone in a Disney movie bursts into song, that is musical theater. So I agree. I agree, Jennifer. Nice work. Luis, you're wrong. I have seen the movie once, which is a really lovely movie that if folks out there haven't seen it, I very highly recommend it. And I have to say, as someone who, not trying to brag, but once took a course on American

musical theater at the University of California, Santa Cruz, a course which was largely distinguished by the fact that one of my professors was the great comic songwriter Tom Lehrer. And inventor of the jello shot. Wait, did Tom Lehrer invent the jello shot? That's what Wikipedia has said for a long time. Wow, I did not know that about Tom Lehrer. Are you still in touch with him? You know, one of the famous things about him at the time was that his phone number was in the Santa Cruz phone book.

Maybe I should look him up in the phone book and get him a call and check in. Inventor of the Jell-O shot, listed number. Tom Lehrer wrote Poisoning Pigeons in the Park. He was a great professor. He was very grumbly. He was a co-professor among three. They were all very grumbly. They were all emeritus professors, and they just made fun of each other the whole time um what a life the perfect life

i know he only he only uh the only songwriters whose work he endorses like after like 1960 are sondheim and randy newman and i'm like yeah you know can't can't argue with that tom lair i wonder if he's heard any Jonathan Colton. Oh, wow. Anyway, we're getting way off track. I think the one thing that complicates this specific dispute is that while the songs in Once are presented as performances by a band, which is to say it's musicians performing music that, you know, is, as Jennifer writes, realistic. The complicating factor is that they often are essentially expressing the emotions of the characters in the scenes. Driving the story, exploring the themes, and so on. Yeah, they're not driving the story in a, you know,

not in a literal sense, but in a more poetic, emotional sense. The songs that they write and perform in the film are not coincidental. Songs and musicals never drive the story. You know, like, oh, what a beautiful morning. It's like acknowledging that it's a sunny morning. It's not a major plot point of Oklahoma. But I mean, I think it is a little bit in, it is not, I take your meaning completely,

but I think it's a slightly in a gray area because for that reason that, you know, the themes of the songs are specifically tailored to the the content of the film and the narrative of the film. All right. You know what? You're right. Sorry, Jennifer. I take it back. You're wrong. Lewis is right. I was just saying I said you're right. I just think it's a little, it's in a little bit of a gray area. That's, that's where I'm at on this. I, you know what? All right. You're right. It is a gray area and no one's right.

Let's call Tom Lehrer and see what he has to say. It's a conundrum. Quite a conundrum. Is Jennifer right? Is Lewis right? I don't know. I'm in my chambers. It's Judge John Hodgman, the musical.

And then I don't know. You know, it's like da- hodgman the musical and then i don't know you know it's like it goes up and then not down do you know what i mean like that's what i'm thinking of for this scene wait a minute wait a minute where's john hodgman and how did wayne brady get in here here's something from danny i just listened to science friction which you suggested this before you read this jesse i'm just gonna say jennifer is right but the forms are always changing and once is one of those transitional forms and and the the the whole point of making art in the world is to to transcend genres and reinvent genres. So right now, for now, Jennifer, you are right, but tomorrow you may be wrong. Now let's hear what Danny has to say.

I just listened to Science Friction, which you had suggested might also be titled Star Wars Chamber, and I am your people. Thank you, Danny. And I thought you should know that the star chamber is an excellent mnemonic device by which to remember the names of the U.S. Supreme Court's most conservative judges. Scalia, Thomas, Alito, Roberts. Sorted ideologically, czar might be a better fit. That is T-S-A-R. Now you're going too far, Danny.

Did this guy just have to prepare for a test that involved ranking the Supreme Court justices by their perceived political conservatism? Yeah. It's a fairly useful mnemonic, but we mainly read your letter out loud, Danny, or I forced Jesse to, because I still like Star Wars Chamber as a name of an episode. And a lot of people did not remember the Michael Douglas thriller, The Star Chamber, that I remember so distinctly from my youth as going, wait a minute, this isn't about space at all. But I'm glad that it resonated with you, Danny. And even though your mnemonic is woefully overcomplicated and weird, I am your people too. On a related note, Ross writes, here's some more about this.

In your recent episode, Science Friction, you stated that the movie Inglourious Bastards is alternative history and therefore science fiction. I say, while alternative history is unarguably speculative fiction, it makes no sense to consider it a subcategory of science fiction. For example, the movie Gladiator differs from history at least as much as Inglorious Bastards does and is therefore also alternate history, but no one in their right mind would claim that Gladiator is a science fiction movie. I'd also point to Harry Turtledove's book Ruled Britannica, which follows Shakespeare

in the wake of a successful invasion by the Spanish Armada. Okay, Ross, you're right. Everyone's right today, and I'm wrong. Yes, Inglorious Bastards is alternate history, speculative fiction, not technically science fiction, because there's no beep-boop in it, and there's no technology aspect of it unless you count the technology of the gun that is used to shoot Hitler in a movie theater, because that's not what happened in real life.

If anything, it might be a fantasy. Could it be a fantasy? Because it is a fantasy, a wish fulfillment fantasy about this group of infantrymen killing Hitler in a palace of fantasy, a movie theater. It's a fantasy about fantasy. And it's a weird story too, because it clearly presents a what if, you know, it's a what if, what if this happened? And what would that mean if it did? And don't you feel strange now that you're seeing something as ahistorical as Hitler being gunned down in a movie theater? It is of that tradition of the genre, to be sure, in a way that Gladiator is not. No one goes to Gladiator thinking like, this is a funny, interesting movie that presents a curious,

what if we made a movie that was historically inaccurate? What if this emperor didn't live at this particular time? It's not that. None of the errors in Gladiator are the hinge upon which the story revolves. But in this case, it was clearly a decision to create an alternate history and to make you think about what that means in the context of the film and in the context of what movies and stories do. How they heal wounds or open ideas to you. So, but is it science fiction? No, you're right,

Ross. Thanks, you win. Everybody wins. Do I win? Yeah, everybody. You win. You won that. You won the Once is a Musical. Inglourious Bastards is not science fiction. And SAR is a mnemonic for remembering the conservative members of the

Supreme Court. Everyone wins. Everyone wins. This is the day. You guys finally beat me. If you have a dispute for Judge John Hodgman, it sounds like now's the time to get it in. Go to MaximumFun.org slash JJ Ho. MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. We'd love to get your submissions and Judge Hodgman pours over each and every one personally. So Maximumfund.org slash JJHO or just email it to Hodgman at Maximumfund.org. Our producer is

Julia Smith. Our editor is Mark McConville. This week's case name came from Jared Henderson. We ask for case names on our Facebook page just like Judge John Hodg, and sometimes on our Twitters as well. I'm at Jesse Thorne. Hodgman is at Hodgman. And if you have a dispute you'd like to have heard in the court of Judge John Hodgman, just go to MaximumFund.org slash JJ Ho.

There's a handy form you can fill out there. It goes directly to me. You can also write me directly at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. You can also write your letters saying how I said something wrong or how I was incorrect about a thing or any other kind of pedantry. This is your chance to be small and petty when you could otherwise be gracious and magnanimous. It's your choice. Judge Hodgman, I recently pronounced Albany as Albany on public radio, and you would not believe the river, the river of pedantry that hit my email inbox.

I would believe it because I'm the guy who referred to Akron, Ohio recently. Judge Hodgman, I have one last question for you, and it is this. Please. You were nice enough to come to the Atlantic Ocean Comedy and Music Festival, a.k.a. BoatParty.biz last year. What a boat party it was. I was wondering if you could characterize what type of time it is to come on such a journey. Well, you remember how we were talking about tipping and how tipping gives you the opportunity to have either the worst feeling or the best feeling?

And when you have that choice, why not choose best? Yes. The boat party offers you the same opportunity. If you go on the boat party, you will have the best time. You will be with friends who listen to the same podcasts and enjoy the incredible array of culture that Jesse has so carefully curated for you. And you will be among the purveyors of that very culture, all in an incredibly wonderful, weird and overstimulating

boat experience, which I cannot stress enough is a incredibly weird and fun thing that I would do again and have done again and again and again. And you will make friends for a lifetime and you will like like leaving a generous tip in a hotel room. You will not regret the money you spent for a single second. And if you don't go, you will have the worst time of your life. I guarantee you, whatever you're doing that is not being on that boat with your boat friends is the worst. So why not choose the best? Go to boatparty.biz and do what needs to be done. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Goodbye.

Bye. Maximumfun. Goodbye.