Judge John Hodgman - Top Golf Mansion

Episode Date: July 6, 2022

It's time to clear the docket with Guest Bailiff Jean Grae! Jean and Judge Hodgman discuss beans on display, grammar correcting, Top Golf competition, wedding dress donating, and complicated pizza math!

hello and welcome welcome welcome and welcome welcome and hello hello and and welcome into you to you no don't go away please come in no what welcome well oh no you know that wouldn't go no that wouldn't come in now no yes everyone else come everyone only you the listener are welcome not the other ones the people around you who are not listening send them away not welcome not invited not welcome not welcome and welcome to the judge john hodgman podcast who are you i'm guest bailiff jean gray again by popular demands you know what i say guest bailiff Jean Grey again by popular demands. You know what I say? Guest bailiff Jean Yay.

Oh. Right? Oh. That's going to confuse even more people. I don't want to erase your very name. Jean Grey is the name. Do you know how many times people type my name as Jean Greer? EA.

I'm not talking, you know, maybe you might be dyslexic or something. Not shout out to all my dyslexics out there. Right. No, it's just a common error. Jane Greer. Jen. I type my name as Jen Greer a lot. Sure.

Just because typing fast. So Jean Yeh. I'm okay with that. I still get a fair amount of J-O-H-n's joan hodgman that happens quite a bit gene gray is spelled j-e-a-n yeah space g-r-a-e learn how to spell it i picked it that way not because of uh copyright issues no not at all. Because of symmetry, visual symmetry. Oh, right. The E-A and the A-E.

I like the way it looks. Jean, G-R-A-E, Gray, we have some cases on the docket. Are we ducking in dockets? Let's dunk in dockets. We're in the chambers. We're going to duck and dunk in dockets. Yeah, we're going to serve some dunks on these dockets. Here's the case from Edward.

Oh, boy. While attending grad school in Keene? Keene, New Hampshire. New Hampshire. I know it's New Hampshire. I just wanted to know if it was Keene. Keene. K-E-E-N-E.

First off, it doesn't have enough flair. It's Pride Month. I'm starting it again. While attending grad school in Cannae, New Hampshire, I made many lifelong friends. After I left, they were all hiking one day and talking about me. They then found a can of baked beans frozen in a lake and sent it to me as a lovely memento. This can makes me think of my dear friends and our quirky times. So I put it on our mantle. My fiance hates my decorative baked bean can and hides it.

Please help me return the can to its rightful place at the bottom of the lake. I'm sorry. It says on the mantle to its rightful place on the bottom of the lake. I'm sorry. It says on the mantle to its rightful place on the mantle. Bottom of the frozen lake. And of course, Jean, we did ask Edward to send in some photos of the can of beans in place of pride on the mantle and the place where the fiance hides it. And those photos are available right now on the show page at maximum fund.org

or also on our show Instagram page, which is at judgejohnhodgman for you to review as well. Jean, react. What are your reactions? One, beautiful Monstera. I'm going to say the nice things. It's a beautiful Monstera. Oh, is that a plant? Yes. Oh, that's that plant? That's that plant. Gorgeous. Fantastic. G that a plant? Yes. Oh, that's that plant? That's that plant. Gorgeous.

Fantastic. Gorgeous. Big fronds. Really great job. Excited. When I was a kid, my South Africans eat a lot of very, you know, British foods because of colonizers. Yes. So we ate a lot of like English kind of breakfasty items.

Sure. And vegetarian baked beans were some of my favorite things to eat. And I quickly learned in school, when you go to school, that that was not a normal thing for American kids to either enjoy or eat was a bunch of beans. You mean when you went to school in the United States of America? Yes, I've only gone to school in the United States. So you would be bringing a can of vegetarian baked beans to, what was the name of your school again?

Where you and all the incredible people went? PS3, the Charette School, which is now the John Meltzer School, 490 Hudson in the West Village. You and Jesse Klein went there together? That's right. Jesse Klein, the author of the great book, I'll Show Myself Out. My good friend, Sarah Schechter. Yeah. So we didn't have a lot of beans at school. Did you bring a can of beans? I did not. I wouldn't. I wouldn't because the beans

should be in the kitchen. And I think as an adult, like if someone sent me, I think if someone thought of me and then sent me a can of baked beans, I'd be like, I feel like we were never friends. Why? If anything, there's a connection. You loved the vegetarian baked beans. Well, here's the thing. Someone told you that, they found a can, they sent it to you.

Right. You could just buy me a new can. One, I don't want a can of baked beans. Two, I don't want you to, I don't want to have any friends that would take a suspect frozen can of beans out of a lake and then send it to me. No. I mean, there is something scary about these beans.

Beans frozen at the bottom of a lake sound like murder beans. The whole thing. It's very murdery. Sounds like something bad happened. And in this photo of these beans in Pride of Place on the mantelpiece where Edward wants them to live. It's upsetting. Mostly the label has been eroded by time and the elements.

Yeah. There is a little bit of the label left that you can see that says vegetarian. These might be crime beans these could be crime beans right don't bring home the crime beans could be evidence this could be like maybe a murder in cana new hampshire has gone unsolved why why did that camper in cana not eat those beans right like you don't know what happened why did they get out they rolled out they rolled out they rolled out of his his hand yeah right before he was gonna do it before he was imperiled by a bad actor

maybe uh maybe a murderer a human murderer it's new hampshire i don't trust anything a catamount maybe a wild animal maybe a fisher cat got him a fisher cat maybe. Maybe a Bigfoot got them. I mean, Bigfoots are very, very peaceful creatures. I shouldn't put that. I'm always still upset that the plural is Bigfoots. It's upsetting. I'm sorry. Should be Bigfeet? I don't know.

Sasquatches. Sasquy. Sasquy. He's got Sasquatch eye? Anyway, get those beans out that house. Throw those beans out. Let me just say, maybe the Bigfoot didn't murder the camper, right? But maybe the camper saw Bigfoot, totally was astonished, dropped the beans.

They fell into the lake. And then the camper was so scared and amazed at the Bigfoot that he fell over and hit his head on a rock or and perished in that way or or or this guy during his time in grad school he was out there and uh he came across a bigfoot who was sitting at the edge of the lake like trying to open this can of baked beans right and then he was watching him and um then the bigfoot saw him and got really embarrassed and threw the can of baked beans and ran away is that why the can of baked beans was frozen yes because like that leg of lamb in the old detective story? That's because the Bigfoot could throw super far. Right. And he was like, and then he threw the beans.

He was like, they're going to find out I'm a vegetarian and they're not going to be scared of me. Right. Yeah. That's right. The beans were their murder weapon. Purchased at Market Basket, chain of supermarkets in Massachusetts, my home Commonwealth, Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, and apparently sold across the border in New Hampshire. Anyway, the beans are scary. What does he he want he wants the beans on the mantle he wants

the beans on the man not my house get it get these beans out but you don't keep the beans you don't have to put them on the mantel i say this how about okay i say this is the way it can look uh you got to make it look good so maybe one of those uh cool like a like a glass container or like a little like a box around it and then a little uh label on the bottom like they do at galleries it says beams like a shadow box yeah yeah display those beans that's the only way mount mount it mount it make it look like a piece you need, yeah. Because right now it does. I'll say this. The beans have a sentimental meaning to Edward. They were a gift from his friends. The can of beans looks sketchy and not good.

But what he sees when he looks at them is a memory of his friends going hiking and thinking of him and sending him beans in the mail. That's a shame that you can't just take pictures or remember things. It's a shame. Well, you know, then there should be never keepsakes at all. I mean, Jean Grey. Yeah, I'm fine with that. I can see into your life in your unnamed city. And I see that there is a ceramic bunny rabbit over your shoulder.

That's my totem. I told you. The only thing I take with me. I'll leave everything. Hajme, I'll burn his house down. I'll take only the, I don't even care about that. What is the meaning of that rabbit to you? It's a very specific reference to the white rabbit.

And a very specific reference to Lewis Carroll. And how that will be playing into my future and how it played into my past. See, it has significance to you, but it also has the benefit of looking nice. Yeah. As opposed to like a piece of salvaged garbage that might've been used in a crime. Yeah. And when I bought it, it didn't look like that. Oh, really? You spiffed it up? I spray painted it.

Oh. It was a little thrift store bunny. And it was one of the first things I saw when we got here. And I was like, the rabbit's guiding me again. And I picked him up and I spiffied him up so he could look like a piece. Right. There you go. On display. So the point is spiff up your beans.

Spiff those beans if you want to keep those beans. I'm sure that she'd be happy about that. I'm not so sure but I do think that that is an option. If you want the thing to be in pride of place, you want to make it clear that you have mounted a memento, not merely forgot your can of beans someplace. Yeah, it looks wild. It's too wild. It looks wild.

What do you think about the fiance sneaking the beans way in the corner behind the giant leafed plant oh i do that i that's a thing that uh i did a lot in this uh past relationship and where i live i will take small things and i'm like what why no i'll bring it i'll just you could put this in some corner where you keep your ridiculous things. I'm not putting that up here. You're not putting it on the mantle. No, this is carefully curated. What are we doing?

Right. Curate your beans. Spiff your beans. I agree with you, Jean. Yeah, spiff those beans. I mean, I think that Edward should deserve to have things that are meaningful to him on the mantelpiece. Sure. Agreed.

Right. I mean, it's his home. They are going to share this home. Yeah. They're going to share this home yeah they're going to share this relationship i think that it happens that people in a relationship feel empowered to take the things that are meaningful from one person and hide them yeah um and that that could make the other person feel a little bit uh disempowered and that's not fun sure absolutely but i agree that this particular can of beans and the specific, we deal in both principle

and specific. And the principle of the thing is you deserve to have something on your mantelpiece, but specifically not these beans or spiff them up, spiff them up, put them in a shadow box as Jean Cray suggests. Or just put a little label, a label on the wall that says beans. Beans from my friends. Beans from friends. And then the day, the year friends that's right as we have said on judge john hodgman a long time ago the difference

between a collection and a hoard is a display case did you say that yeah that's some settled law this is why we're friends this is what's true because yes you can't just have a hobo mantle no you have to but you got a bindle, too? Like, what are you doing? But we're talking, the hobos of the early and mid-20th century, the rail ride and hobos, they had an aesthetic. They did things with intentionality. I'll tell you this.

If there was a section on the mantle that was like, can of beans, bindle. What else is the hobo thing? Natty Gann hat. Smoldering fire. Yeah, okay. A big rock candy mountain. A little train figurine. And I'd be like, oh, there's like a thing going on. It's a theme.

A theme. Like you can't just beans out of nowhere. It's crazy. Beans out of nowhere. It's not going to work. What are we talking about? This is what we were talking about from the very beginning when we started recording. Act with intentionality.

And our intention, I think, has to be to move on to the next case. All right, cool. Here's something from Troy. I'm an English major, reader, writer, and English teacher. I tend to speak with a robust vocabulary. Do you? But my real issue is my nagging need. I'm so sorry.

I haven't been anywhere in a long time. So I'm going to, I'm bringing it. It's so nice to see you. It's so nice to see you. I tend to speak with a robust vocabulary, but my real issue is my nagging need to correct the grammar of my friends. I do not correct the grammar of strangers or acquaintances. My reasoning for allowing the need for correction to get the better of me with friends is because we've established a close enough relationship that I can feel comfortable in wanting them to be correct. This has caused

a few bumps in the past, always with a kind of shrugging away of the conflict after a few quips. Judge, should I stop correcting friends altogether? Or should I be more discerning in my attempts at bettering the people in my life that I most enjoy? First things first, Troy. My reasoning for allowing the need for correction to get the better of me with friends is because we've established a close enough relationship. What you mean to say is my reasoning for allowing the need for correction to get the better of me with my friends is that we've established a close enough relationship. You burned. The whole thing was a run on. The whole thing was a run. The whole paragraph was a burden.

It was a burden to read. A burden, Troy. was a burden. It was a burden to read, a burden, Troy. That's the second thing. Yes, Troy, I have to say there are a couple of reasons that grammar exists. And the most benign reason that there are rules- It's benign? Excuse me, thank you. I do apologize. I stand corrected. The other reason for grammar that is not so good is that it is not neutral. Correct grammar, correct usage was created to distinguish itself from, quote unquote, non-correct usage. This is in every language.

And more often than not, the people who speak, quote unquote, incorrectly are the people in that culture who do not have power. And I don't think this is a coincidence. I don't think that correct grammar and correct usage and the social power that using it conveys was done neutrally. I think it was purposeful to exclude people who didn't speak correctly, outgroups and marginalized people, people who weren't in power and aren't in power. I'm going to sum it up real quickly. I think the term proper English and correct English is a tool of white supremacy. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. I mean, basically to sum it up. But, you know, if you say supposedly in front of me, I'm still getting mad. I'm going to correct you.

It's not a word. Neither is irregardless. Get out of here. But, you know, let's, you know. We can have fun with language. I love language. I love words. You're supposed to.

You're supposed to. And that's how, if you're not challenging any of the systems that are in place or what's supposed to be correct or, you know, what's supposed to be proper. Then what are we doing? How do we progress? How do we move forward? We don't. Right. But there is no inherent virtue in correctness of grammar.

There's not. But there's a lot of virtue in expressing yourself clearly and imaginatively and interestingly and not letting correctness of grammar get in the way. Yeah. And I will say, just to wrap this up, Jean, we've, I, Jean, we've gotten a lot of letters from people proclaimed to be grammar folk, and I believe that they love language. None better than me.

None better qualified than me. I had to bend words and letters and meanings and triple entendres for a living. So, sorry, Troy. Calm down. I just mean to say that every one of these letters that I get from a grammar nerd always contains an error of usage or a grammatical mistake.

And this is like, you know, if you don't want to be hoisted on one's own petard, maybe not have a petard. Okay, we're going to go to a quick break to hear from this week's partners. We will be back with more cases to clear from ducking into the docket on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org.

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Visit MadeInCookware.com. That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com. Hey, welcome. Not, not welcome. You're still welcome. Welcome back to the judge. Sean Hodgman podcast.

This week we are clearing the docket. Here's a case. You ready? Yes. Sorry. I didn't mean to step on you there. Are you just going to, you can just agree to everything.

Yes. Yes. To which part? All of it. All right. To which part? All of it. All right. I feel great about all of it. Are you sure? No.

I was trying to be positive for a little bit. No, I just want you to be honest. They say you should say yes to the universe. Oh, that is not true. You should say no. You should say no to everything so that you can be at peace. Say no, y'all. Maybe later. I'm snacking and napping right now, universe.

No, that's explanation. No explanation. Just no. That's what they say on Reddit, right? Is it? No is a complete sentence. No is a complete sentence. That's right. I got a whole episode about it. Anyway, here's a case from Meg. Okay, Meg. My husband and I went to Topgolf on a date. I'm not a golfer. He's not really either, but he plays for fun a few times a year and is much better than me for sure. Okay, I had to look up what Topgolf

was. Do you know what Topgolf is, Jean? It's the best golf. It is. It's the best golf. It's the best. It's like you think of golf as being a pretty upscale. Topgolf, the balls are golden. Yeah.

The greens are higher. Like there's a level up. They're higher. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone plays below. They're higher. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone plays below. They have to play in regular golf, but you have to take a plane. You have to take an elevator.

Up to Topgolf. Up to Topgolf. It's played on tops of mountains that they have chopped off the top of the mountain. It's the beautiful thing about Topgolf is that they have to chop off a whole mountain half. Yeah. You know, you think, can golf get more environmentally destructive? Yes. Yeah.

Here's the answer. Topgolf. Chop off a mountain. Topgolf. It was called Chopgolf, but they changed it because they were like, it's not really, it's kind of explaining the thing that we have to do, but not like how we feel about ourselves. Right. Yeah.

It's tops. It's the tops. No, Topgolf is a chain of driving ranges around the country. I guess it started in England, but now they have them throughout the mid-Atlantic region. There's probably a Topgolf near you in that unnamed mid-Atlantic city on the eastern seaboard gene, if you want to check it out. And you go there and then a you know, a driving range. I've never done this and I've never golfed and I've only mini golfed.

Same. But it's like, you know, you hit the golf balls into a net far away, right? You're trying to practice your driving. But with Topgolf, there are goals. It's kind of like a froth, frisbee golf. But instead of hitting them into, you know know trying to aim the frisbee into a little net there are holes arrayed in front of you i guess and and you you aren't walking around it's it's like um well in the art when you go to the arcade and there's a the basketball machine

where you're throwing actual basketballs i love i absolutely love that game i hate playing real basketball but i love that game it's the panic it basketball, but I love that game. It's the panic. It's the panic of it. It's the pressure. Right. You got to go fast. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if Topgolf has a speed round, but you are basically playing golf into a cage outside somewhere. I would go do this. Yeah. We should do it, right? Yeah. See what it's like. I like mini golf, but I've always wanted to go to a range. But this sounds like an interesting combination of a couple of things that I thoroughly enjoy in a very, in like a different kind of competitive nature. So. You know, and you don't, you don't go anywhere, right? You know, they say golf is a good walk spoiled. This is a good walk spoiled without the walking.

Yeah. I don't, I don't want to walk around. It's just a good stand. Yeah. And stand and sit, I assume. Oh yeah. You can sit down from time to time. And they have a lot of sandwiches. I can tell from looking at the websites. Let's do it. Snacks. Okay. However.

So it's a game like golf, but there are different games as you're about to read. There are different games within it, different versions of the game. I'm already into this. I'm very invested. However, after we played regular Topgolf for a while, Uh, however, after we played regular Topgolf for a while, we switched to the kids version, which had an Angry Birds theme. And I did so good. My husband got so rattled by how well I was doing that he blew two of his limited number of swings. One ball fell off the lip of the platform.

So sad. The other went sideways and almost took out our neighbor. But he technically won the game by the skin of the platform. So sad. The other went sideways and almost took out our neighbor, but he technically won the game by the skin of his teeth because his do-over shots got him over the line. I understand that I lost the game as far as the computer is concerned, but I seek your judgment. Please rule that in reality, reality i won if there had been a live person scoring the game he would have lost he got lucky so i just want to say and i did so good is quote unquote grammatically incorrect but i wouldn't change a word there i did so good that is exactly how you did yep meg and congratulations for doing so good at Angry Birds Topgolf.

I had to check. The only way that I knew that this letter was not for me is that there was a picture of Meg. Meg did send in a picture of her and Sean, her husband, playing Topgolf. Also, you can see the photo there of how it goes. You just stand on a green carpet on a raised platform and hit balls into a net that goes way, I mean

it's a large playing field, or I guess golfing green, surrounded by a net. And if you scroll down, you'll also see photos, Jean, of the scoreboard, the computer scoreboard with Meg's score on this Angry Birds version of Topgolf You'll also see photos, Jean, of the scoreboard, the computer scoreboard. I love it. With Meg's score on this Angry Birds version of Topgolf being much higher than Sean's.

And you also see Sean's hand trying to block her from taking a photo. That's right. Because he's so ashamed that he's losing. Trying to keep Meg down. Trying to keep Meg down. Now, if I understand this correctly, Meg had an early lead sean was rattled he was blowing his shots but he had a couple of do-over shots at the end which i presume are part of the game because it's kids top golf after all it's very forgiving yeah you know what i mean shouldn't

and that he he managed to what they say in the New York Times crossword, eke out a victory, however small. So here's the deal, Jean, do we assign her the win because she had such a commanding lead and she so rarely wins at this game? And so much that he was rattled and felt diminished even though in a technicality at the end he won the game for children built for children for children that he won the game for children oh you're asking what what what i think that's my what's your opinion first off meg my people i know that you're my people from the tone of this letter, from the activity that was happening, from the way you described and your competitive nature. I am a very competitive person. My husband and I played mini golf at some point during the pandemic at some place we could find.

And I specifically love this place because when you win, you get a little trophy and you get to put like a little sign on the bottom. You can print it out. Number one, I just want to win all the time. I don't care if it's mini golf. I don't care. I don't care what it is. I want to win all the time. I don't care if it's mini golf. I don't care. I don't care what it is. I want to win. Sometimes when I get off the train and I'm walking, I play a game to myself that I beat

other people who get up the stairs. And those are my little wins for the day. I like to beat people. So when I won this game that he thought he was clearly going to win, so I'm not a particularly athletic person, but I will make it happen. And I got my little trophy. I would love to send you a picture of this to include. probably about eight inches tall yeah with a little a little golfing man on it and uh i wanted it to say other things but i ran out of characters to use so i believe it's just like gene is the best at putt-putt number one number one gene one and i um i wanted to keep it i keep it on the mantle actually which is very funny next to your can of beans um but then i couldn't i could it it just it wasn't being curated well there so i had

to move it somewhere else and then i i put it away because it doesn't go out with anything else even though i'm so proud of it um another thing that i also adore I'll keep this as short as I possibly can, is anytime there are rules for children or if I'm, say, in an arcade and I am playing against a child, like a child, I have not gone up to challenge a child. A child will wander up to challenge me. I'm not going to go easy because I think children should learn. Right. And I think they should see someone who looks like me beating them in that game so i don't think those rules should be afforded for children get those angry i mean if you want to keep them in place for children that's fine but if you're adults playing that game i think if you're doing those do-over shots that doesn't count we know it doesn't count you're not a child and if i were if i were meg i'd be like yeah you won by children's rules

not by actual rules so i had already won the game we're done here right are you a child well sean is obviously a child i mean i'm looking at this picture and he looks small. Well, if he's actually trying to block Meg from taking a photo of the score in which he's losing. Yeah. I mean, there's that. That is childish. And then see his fingers. Those look like children's fingers. Right. I think Meg won. And I think the technicality was that it was children's rules, but you're not the children's. I got to say, I was going to, with a heavy heart, give this one to Sean because if it was part of the rules, like there are lots, you know how much I love sports games, right, Jean? So much.

I'm always watching the sports. Yeah. And I have seen sports games where one team is playing really, really well and one team is playing really, really poorly. And it's very exciting when the team that is playing well wasn't expected to play particularly well. And it's very double exciting when the team that is playing poorly is the one that was favored to win. And the team that is playing very, very well, it's just so exciting. And you get to a point in the game where you think like there's no way they can't win. Yeah.

And then the other team, I don't know what happens, just gets a good net or something or hits a good frawl for whatever it is. One last, you know, maybe something unusual happens and a seagull comes down and drops the baseball into the score hole unexpectedly. And there's nothing in the rule books about a seagull. And then the bat breaks in half and then they got to run to the bases but not get tagged. Right. And there's this last, but a last minute come from behind victory is definitely part of these competitions. And I had to say, if he's playing by the rules, he's playing by the rules. I don't see why we, I don't see how we couldn't grant Sean the win. But because I want to side with Meg, because it was clearly a triumph for her. Meg because it was clearly a triumph for her.

Thankfully, you with your wisdom, guest bailiff Jean Grey, have pointed out that they were playing by children's rules and he is not a child. He's not a children. They were already breaking the rules. Yeah. All rules were out the window. These birds are angry. Do you think birds care about the rules? I'll say that.

All rules are out the window already. So I feel like technically you go with the score. Like that's the game. He did win the score. But he won the score. But only because. At the very end. Jennifer Marmer, you have a tiebreaker on this one?

Yeah, I think that Meg won. I'm kind of, I think I was coming into this thinking about it, Judge, where you were. But Gaspail of Jean Grey really helped me get to the place where I wanted to be, which is that Meg won. Yes, yes, yes. Look, I'm going to let this tribunal stand two votes against one. I'll let Meg win, but here's my dissenting opinion. If he had the most points at the end of the game, it is a technical victory for Sean. It is undoubtedly a moral victory for Meg.

But as someone who is a member of the Democratic Party, I'm tired of moral victories. I want some real ones. I don't think taking a philosophical win is sufficient in this life. I think people are counting on us to get some real wins, not just moral victories. So I'm saying everybody that this was involved in politics from candidates to volunteers, including myself in campaigns, you know, go for the win.

Try to win this game. Angry Birds Topgolf is important to everybody. People are counting on you to win, Meg. Go out there and play it and play it until you beat Sean on the scoreboard as well as in America's hearts. Wow, that was beautiful. Go out there and get him. Sean, you can't win anger. You're going to lose, Sean. Here's something from Sammy. I want to donate my wedding dress to charity

so someone else can enjoy it on their special day. I'm generally not someone who is sentimental about objects. I really like the idea of my dress continuing to bring joy to others. The dress is in perfectly good shape and would be cleaned. My mother refuses to let me donate the dress. She says I will regret it and that my children may want it for their wedding. She's very sentimental about objects and wants to have the dress boxed up properly and stored for the future. I doubt my dress would still be fashionable for a future child many years from now, but I think someone today would love it. She and my father bought the dress for my wedding, but I would argue that it's mine to do with as I want to now.

I would like to order my mom to let me donate the dress instead of keeping it for a theoretical future use. Jean, you know what we have here? You know what we have here? Competing intentionality. What a conundrum. Because Sammy has an intention of what she wants to do with her dress, which is to give it to someone who cannot afford a wedding dress. Her mother wants to put it on the mantelpiece like a can of beans.

As a keepsake of a very important time in their family's life and in her life as the mother of the bride. very important time in their family's life and in her life as the mother of the bride. And maybe to give to a future person to, to hoard it like it's generational wealth, but it's not a hoard because it's in a display case called a mansion. Sorry, I'm getting confused now. I don't, I'm not saying that Sammy and her mom live in a mansion.

I'm just saying, I like, I like the idea. I like the idea her mom live in a mansion. I'm just saying. I like the idea. I like the idea that they're in a mansion, but there's nothing there but just the dress in the box. No furniture. Maybe a can of beans. Right. It's not my primary residence.

It's just my dress and beans store and mansion. It's the mansion on the Topgolf property. That's right. Topgolf mansion. This week on Topgolf watch that i would watch it that's my problem who knows what it even is i don't care it sounds great i want i'll watch anything that starts with this week on this week on top golf mansion criteria for shows the show is you and i gene we we wake up in separate ballrooms in the top golf mansion oh two ballrooms we don't know how we got there oh god and we're we're trying to figure out what it is

and where we are and how we get back to our loved ones do we have to play um golf in order to get out but we can only wear this wedding dress like two versions of this wedding dress. And there's only beans to eat. I think it's perfect. And there's a butler, but all he does is just correct us every time. It's Troy. Troy is our butler. Oh my God. What a nightmare.

I would watch this. Oh, Topgolf Mansion. On season 10 of Topgolf. So whose intentionality wins here? i was being a little as i was talking through i feel like what sammy's mom is proposing is not unusual at all lots of people who get married in dresses keep those dresses as a keepsake i know that my, who's a whole human being in her own right, has kept her dress as a keepsake. A mom keeping that dress, perhaps for a future generation, not unusual. But on the other hand, there's something so generous about Sammy's intention.

And I do think it's, we're living in a time when it's really smart to reconsider some traditions, particularly ones that withhold resources from the world to give to someone that you favor in your own family, as opposed to give them back to the world where they can be used. Who wins, Jean? Who owns this dress? Who gets to decide what to do? Sammy owns the dress. Sammy, it's not a question. Sammy, it's not a question. And it's a wild insinuation for her mom to be like, you know, when you like I'm the person like I've gotten better at it.

But I'm like, oh, I always like never wanted anyone to like do anything for me or buy something for me because at some point in the future, they're like, oh, but remember, like, but that's like I did that. And you're like never mind um so my my mom never would never have done anything like that and been like well i got it for you so it's you know i can still make decisions about it um it's sammy's dress it was her wedding dress unless both it would be a very interesting dress if maybe both her and her mother wore it to the wedding. Like they both fit in it simultaneously. And I think that's cool. It may have made her mom happy.

I'm sure that there are plenty of parents who wish that their child's wedding garments came with a little sidecar. A little sidecar. A little sidecar dress that they could just wrap around themselves and they're like you see it's also about me it's also me just so you know it's also me my wedding um i think that is incredibly lovely of sammy to uh want to donate it i think um also as a person who has like many things in my closet some would say too many i say not enough um it's a great idea to know when to like clear things out and be like is this just sitting here what is the sentimentality of it like i i already had the moment i was there it was my

wedding these are my feelings already it doesn't lay in this object. And maybe someone else could have a wonderful time in this. It's such a great thing to do. It's 2022. We all need to be living like this. So I think the idea of her mom saying, let's donate it to the future. I think Sammy's living in the future already. That's the future. And the future includes, you know, helping people that we cannot see or don't know. Maybe that person that she's donated to in charity is then going to hold on to that dress and pass that dress on to their kids. Sure. Maybe it is for a future kid. Yeah. It's all for the future. It's all for the future. The point is the future is all of us not just our bloodlines oh boy can we do that's a podcast this week on top golf mansion not just our bloodlines i hey i'm

gonna i'm gonna put in a word for sammy's mom listen here sammy's mom it's your judge john hodgman talking to you we've never met. And I like you. I, I understand where you're coming from. And I, we have two adult humans who are out of our care. One of them is definitely out of our care. One of them is in that twilight of our care. And it is really hard to let them go. It is really hard to appreciate that they are whole human beings.

They are not expressions of ourselves. They are out there in the world being whole human beings. They love us. They care for us, but they are going to lead their own lives. And neither of these two adult humans in our lives, in my family's life, are married yet. I don't know if they ever will be. But that is definitely an inflection point when you realize they are building a family that has nothing to do with you. Well, I mean, you know, if you did a good job, it's going to reflect values that are meaningful to you and to them as well. But it is their life, their thing to do it's really hard and i get you know it's like i get why you want to hold on

to something if you can't hold on to sammy maybe you'll hold on to her dress as she runs away from you and it'll and she'll it's like is it a breakaway wedding dress that would be pretty cool oh boy a breakaway wedding dress that's cool and you're left with the dress and you want to you want to hold it and savor it and everything else i get it i understand but don't hold on to the symbol when you can't hold on to the real thing let it go let it go let it go let sammy make her decision. All right. We're going to take a very quick break. It's going to be eight hours on our end. But for you, almost instantaneous. That's the magic.

When we come back, pizza math. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you.

And remember no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try St-o-p-p-o-d-c-a-s-t-i hmm are you trying to put the name of the podcast there yeah i'm trying to spell it but it's tricky let me give it a try okay if you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-t-o-p-p-p-a-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ugh! We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself.

A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Hey, Gene. We're going to take a break from the case, talk about some of the things that we have coming up i mean the big thing happened we triumphed at lincoln center you were there it was incredible it was it was beautiful i brought that centaur and people were like she's not gonna bring out like but then i did you know that centaur yeah yeah and thank you all for everybody who came it was such a great night it's great to see you again i hope that we'll get to some live shows soon i've got none to announce

at the moment uh as mentioned i am uh in the throes of a new job on top of the other secret project that i'm working on with david reese so i will just say for my part, hey, please don't forget Dicktown starring Jean Grey as Monica. What a good plug. You can check it out on Hulu. It's something that we really loved making. And the more people know about it, the more people know about it. That's how I see it. Additionally, it's wonderful to have you joining us, Jean.

There are some other folks that you may have already heard or will be hearing popping in to do some guest bailiffing over the summer. already heard or will be hearing uh bopping in to do some guest bailiffing over the summer um i wanted to give a shout out to linda holmes whose new novel flying solo is out now and is really wonderful and you can go you can go get it wherever you get books our friend monty belmonte of course continues uh to uh hold down the wheels of steel every morning every weekday morning at wrsi the river 93.9 fm North Hampton, where he hosts the morning show. And you can hear a lot of those very, very funny and cool excerpts from that as interviews and his field pieces are all collected in a week of mornings. It's a podcast by Monty Belmonte called a week of mornings, Monty Belmonte,

search that up. And of course our friend, Joel Mann, our main man up there in Maine at WERU, 89.9 FM in Orland, Maine. Also, wherever you get your internet radio, make sure that you go and check him and the Night and Day Trio out as they jazz trio the summer away on the porch of the Pentago at Inn in Castine, Maine. I don't know how much I'm going to be up there this summer because of this uh this job that i got the secret job on top of secret job it's all secret it's all secret it's all safe to quote the movie sneakers which i will also plug the movie sneakers is pretty good it's a pretty good movie jean gray what do you got going on i know i know you i know you're rocking your patreon

um and other than that all of my projects are not secret they're just like it's nice to have like a lull in things just in process and i don't really have to do like other things we'll see i'll um you know it's time to be home in new york and uh think of some things so i'll i'll let y'all know you can stay up with me at uh instagram at uh genie grigio yeah um so i guess uh just just watch out for me go to the patreon get you some stacy jambles enjoy her she's she's crazy stacy jambles podcast on gene gray's patreon it's ridiculous i'm sorry it's ridiculous sorry gene's got a book that she's working on that's going to come out. That's Not How You Do That, which is a TV show going to be coming out soon. Keep your eye out for everything Jean Grey.

Follow her on Instagram at Jeanie Grigio. J-E-A-N-N-I-E-G-R-I-G-I-O. That's it. I think I got it right. That was it. Nailed it. Yeah. Don't go around not having Jean Grey in your life.

I'm going to tell you right now, I spent probably about 35 years of my life without Jean Grey in my life, and it was a mistake. All of those years were a mistake. Now it's better. Me too. Well, thank you. Let's get back. Oh, boy. Shall we get back to the docket and clear it?

Okay. Okay. Okay. Bye-bye. All right. Welcome back to the judge. Welcome back to Topgolf Mansion. This week on Topgolf Mansion. Who's the host?

What is that? Is it a vampire? Ian Sterling from Love Island, UK. I wasn't doing a very good job. Here's a case from Kelly. My parents live with me, my husband, and our three-year-old daughter. In addition to providing 20-plus hours of free childcare every week, my parents do all of the dishes and clean the kitchen every day in the Topgolf mansion.

I think we should thank them with a nice takeout dinner once a week. We like to get delicious gourmet pizza. Sorry, Pride Month. We like to get delicious gourmet pizza from a local place here in Louisville. But my husband, Phil, will only buy one pizza, which is cut into eight pieces. This means there are 1.5 pieces for four of us and two pieces for a lucky one. Phil insists.

I have a feeling what that lucky one is. You already know. I have a feeling. Phil insists that this is enough and that two pizzas is too expensive and too much food. I think there's an understood cultural expectation that someone offering pizza provides enough for at least two or three slices each.

Maybe four. No one thinks they're being treated, honored, and appreciated with 1.5 slices of pizza for dinner. Tonight, he also bought himself only

a side salad. Oh, boy. So clearly, he understands that the amount of pizza alone is not enough. Not enough. All right. There's a lot in this case. I'm just going to start, first of all. I want to set aside.

I want to table some of the topics. Some of the questions of budget and affordability. The question of who the lucky one is who gets two pieces. I want to table the discussions why this decision is being made by Phil and only Phil, the topic of financial control of other people, the question of why a three-year-old is offered the same dinner and portion size of four adults. Let's just put all that aside for a second. This isn't Angry Birds. Not the same rules. That's right. For children and adults.

What are we doing? Different rules for children and adults. But I do want to just establish a universal law. And I just want to get your feeling on this. Jean Grey, when you are serving pizza or buying pizza among friends what's the portion size for a human being how many slices per adult of pizza 1.5 or more no uh uncontrolled slices two two bottomless slices minimum minimum two but if there are say how many people are there six it's just you and me here at top golf match if it were just two of us we would have two pizzas two pizzas for two people two

pieces 100 pizzas two peeps yeah one pizza per purse i mean you get you get two different i don't know we might someone might be extra hungry that night or you you still want pizza when you get up in the morning or or you you want to want pizza when you get up in the morning. Or you want to like wander, when you're wandering around the mansion, just crying and just dragging that wedding dress behind you. And Troy's just berating you, berating you, berating you. You want an extra slice of pizza. You want too much pizza. Because there isn't too much.

Yeah. Because as I believe Kelly wrote in the longer version of this letter, the only downside of having too much pizza is you get more pizza later. There's not downside. That's good news. There's more pizza. Too much pizza. I mean, obviously, you have to work within your budget and so forth. True. Absolutely.

But as a principle, you want more pizza than you need. Yes. Now, I have a corollary question for you, Jean, because I think this is going to affect some of our decision making here. Okay. question for you, Jean, because I think this is going to affect some of our decision-making here. Okay. Aside from size, is a large pizza the same as a small pizza? No. Right? Well, one is smaller, but would you agree that there is something fundamentally different about the look, feel, taste, flavor, consistency, heft of a small slice of pizza than a large the large yes like a slice cut from a small

pie versus a large but it's different right and and also let me uh let me say that i am going by new york pizza rules and not necessarily like chain rules but there is a so we're getting thinner as we go bigger um and uh yeah even like a crust to topping ratio it everything is is very different a small pizza is as a person worse yes absolutely absolutely always worse always a slice of small pizza is always worse than a slice of yes large or just say actual pizza. Yes. I'm not saying like you got to go up to Coronet Pizza. That's for all you New Yorkers on 110th with the extra large jumbo slices. I do enjoy the extra large jumbo slices at Coronet. Anytime I'm up there, I get one.

Just have a little laugh to myself. It's hilarious. That's a big, that's a lot. It's a lot of pizza. That's the only one I'd be like, all right, you get one slice. But two slices of regular large pizza at a lot. It's a lot of pizza. That's the only one I'd be like, all right, you get one slice. But two slices of regular large pizza at a minimum. Okay. So now let's get back into this.

Let's solve Kelly's problem. Okay. I'm going to give you some details, specifics of the case here. Because I asked her for some more details. Because Kelly had said, and this is something that we have to decide, that she would rather that Phil buy two pizzas at a cheaper place or a chain than have only one pizza of the upscale gourmet pizza. Right. If it came down to budget. So I asked her some basic questions and she said that the pizza

place that provides the upscale gourmet pizza in Louisville is Sicilian pizza and pasta. Specifically, Jean, the Glenmary Plaza location, not the downtown one. Of course. And I did go to their website. This is a real place. And the pizza looks good. I do need to point out that under their gourmet pizzas, you can build your own pizza. You can put on whatever toppings you want.

Under their gourmet pizzas, I did see something I did not see coming you have ultimate supreme pizza you have chicken pesto pizza, margarita pizza curiously named Italian style pizza which is pepperoni and Italian sausage and then hot brown pizza sorry?

explain hot brown pizza are you saying hot round pizza or hot brown pizza because I don Explain. Hot brown pizza. Are you saying hot round pizza or hot brown pizza? Because I don't want you to be saying brown. I'm reading this off of the website. You're saying the color brown, yeah? Yeah, because in Louisville, Kentucky, there's a very famous sandwich called a hot brown. Oh, okay.

That's right. Right? You'd be forgiven for not knowing that. I've been to Louisville, Kentucky multiple times. I have a cousin in Louisville, Kentucky. Well, the cousin may be able to verify what I learned from Wikipedia long ago at three o'clock in the morning on one of my many journeys down the list of regional sandwiches that I go through when I cannot sleep.

You got a real problem with sandwiches, man. It's been going on a long time. I love sandwiches. I love thinking about them. I love regionalisms. And one of them is the hot brown sandwich first served at Louisville's Brown Hotel. And it is an open-faced hot sandwich of turkey, ham, and bacon

covered in creamy Mornay sauce and then broiled until the bread is crisp it's an open-faced sandwich very it's very upsetting so i mean look people like what they like sure and in louisville kentucky they like this sandwich and the the pizza that is named for and in the style of this sandwich is roasted. This is a pizza with roasted turkey, bacon, and tomato over creamy cheddar Alfredo sauce. So angry. That's what it is. But that's not what Kelly and Phil and their family are getting. No, they're not.

No. They are typically getting, according to Kelly, a 16-inch extra large build-your-own pizza with mushrooms and onion. It is mushrooms and onion specifically because it's somehow that is the pizza that accommodates everyone's disparate pizza tastes. She says, I like pizza to be smothered in rich melty cheese. Phil likes it more saucy with only the barest whisper of cheese. My mother scrapes all but the faintest trace of sauce off of her slice. Somehow this extra large 16 inch build your own pizza with mushrooms and onion, everyone feels okay about it, but there are only eight slices.

And with an extra, with the toppings, it starts at 17 bucks. Each additional topping is two bucks. Then sometimes Kelly will add some black olives and basil. So it's about a $23 pie, $23 pie. Now she concedes that is an expensive pizza, but it is delicious and it works for everybody. She also quoted some prices for cheaper pies from Pizza Hut, Domino's, Costco's, and a chain that I will not name. And for 23 bucks, you can easily get two large pizzas from one of those. So Jean, if your budget is fixed,

let's just say for the sake of argument that they only have 23 bucks for dinner. Sure. There's nothing. Well, hang on. Cause Phil did add that side salad. He did,

which is only one of course. Right. Only one. But that side salad is five bucks based on the sicilian pizza and pasta uh website that i checked out so let's say it's 28 bucks total because phil is saying it's too expensive to get two pizzas that's right they only have 28 bucks for pizza and a salad what is the more generous thing to do this good pizza that everyone loves plus a side salad or lots and lots of pizza from Costco? Well, especially when it comes to a budget, the idea here is that those are not your only choices.

It is about planning, planning, and planning. And this involves some math. You're talking about intentionality? I am. A way to work in polymath, pizza math is what we're going to do right now you're one of our world's great polymaths thank you so much yeah no the big mistake right here because i don't think we're gonna get to phil i don't think we have time to discuss i we all know how we fill fill about phil right we all got our feels about phil all of our phil feels um one this i'll just get this out of the way i don't know why we're so focused on pizza i feel like okay the only choice is just pizza only pizza pizza from many places nothing else but pizza but it does clearly say a nice takeout dinner once a week it doesn't specify

that that takeout has to be pizza sure unless you just want to have a pizza night now if you're on a budget which i truly understand and especially if everyone in the house really likes different things may i suggest here we go may i suggest an investment a one-time investment you go on amazon you get yourself two nice large pizza pans that you now own you don't have to get pizza stones. It doesn't have to be fancy. It's just going to go in your oven. They're not going to go outside in a little wood-burning grill. I mean, you can get that if you want to,

but I feel like Phil's not going to want to do that. You're going to get yourself some good San Marzano tomatoes in a can that can stay in your pantry. You're going to get some double- O flour, maybe some caputo.

You're going to get some yeast. You can even get some great live yeast and just keep it in your freezer. And now every time you guys want to make pizza, maybe it can be a family activity that you all make a big bunch of dough and you freeze it and you keep it in the freezer for later and every time it's this just the day before you take it out you let it thaw out

maybe you're not doing san marzano tomatoes maybe you're just getting some some rayos everybody loves rayos pizza sauce it's delicious like it. It is the greatest jar of sauce of all time. And that's just maybe at the most $8. And that's going to cover a jar of Rayos, maybe about six pizzas, six to eight. Yeah. You get your cheese. It's make the investment. You get your cheese.

Make the investment. If you're going to budget, if you're on such a math conservation budget, which I understand, which everyone understands, and you want something quality, and you want a family activity, and you want everyone to be happy, and everyone can afford a side salad now, not just Phil. And you want to honor and thank and appreciate your parents who are doing all this work, which I think is the primary mission. Pizza sounds like a difficult thing to make, but it's truly not. Once the dough is made, it is so easy. And I'll even say lots of supermarkets carry frozen pizza dough which is just fine that was going to be my other suggestion if you don't want to do that and actually make the dough just buy the crust

just buy the crust just buy the dough it's going to be so I mean it's so good I was intimidated about making pizza for a long long long long time and then the pandemic and then I made one pizza and I was intimidated about making pizza for a long, long, long, long time. And then the pandemic? And then the pandemic. And then I made one pizza and I was like, why am I buying any pizza ever? No.

And if you're making dough- There's a reason there's so many pizza shops out there. Because pizza is delicious. Yeah. And it's relatively easy to make. There you go. And it's economical to make. Exactly.

The profit margin on pizza is crazy. I think, you know, look, I think, Kelly, you have a full house to be sure. You've got a three-year-old. That's not easy. You got your mom and dad there. And I'm sure that, I mean, obviously they're providing you with a ton of support and literal labor around the house. They deserve to be thanked, but that's a full house. I can appreciate why the idea of making pizza, since it probably will fall to you, Kelly.

Oh, that's right. I forgot. But I think that if the goal is to express gratitude towards these parents slash grandparents, this is where you splurge a little. Put some arugula on that pizza. Yeah. Intentional pizza. Be intentional with your pizza.

The docket is clear. That's it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Our editor is Valerie Moffitt. We are on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman. And please remember to submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. No case is too big or too small. Guest bailiff this week, this wonderful person, Jean, G-R-A-E, Gray.

Jean, I'll see you back at Topgolf Mansion. Again. Jennifer Marmer, please get us out of Topgolf Mansion. Please, please. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned.

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