Judge John Hodgman - Torch Reform

Episode Date: November 28, 2018

Spike brings the case against his wife, Ellie. Spike would like a kitchen blow torch but Ellie thinks it’s too dangerous! Who's right? Who's wrong? Thank you to Mike McDavid for naming this week's case! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.  

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, torch reform. Spike brings the case against his wife Ellie. Spike would like a kitchen blowtorch. Ellie thinks it's too dangerous. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. In Greek myth, Prometheus stole fire from the gods and gave it to humankind, the jewelry he kept for himself. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he doesn't need a torch to... Never mind. I do. Yes, I do. Judge Hodgman, you may begin. Spike and Ellie, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors. Can either of you name the piece of culture that I quoted as I entered this fake internet courtroom? Spike, why don't you go first?

I didn't recognize the quote, so I'm going to go with my prepared guess, which is friend of the podcast, Alton Brown. Alton Brown. Oh, that would have been a good one because he likes to talk about cooking, and this is about a culinary torch that you want to get. Indeed. Mm-hmm. Alton Brown, good guess. Putting it in there. I'm not revealing whether it's right or wrong, but it's not correct.

Okay, Ellie. A quote from Julia Child. A quote from Julia Child. I'm actually writing it down. Why am I doing this? No, all guesses are right. You mean to say that when you say you're writing it in the guest book, that's not actually true, Judge Hodgman? Well, I'm not always engraving it the way I claim to.

But I often will write it down a little bit as I try to think of what to say next, which is wrong. I didn't go in any culinary direction at all. I went in mythological direction. Because you wish for the gift of fire. And as we know from this quote and from Greek myth, the Titan Prometheus first shaped humanity out of clay, then so loved his creation that he wished to give humankind the gift of fire and stole it from Olympus and gave it.

But then when he waged war on the titan Zeus, punished Prometheus especially for raising humankind out of savagery with the gift of fire. And so Prometheus was bound to a mountaintop and every day a vulture or eagle, depending on the translation, would eat Prometheus's liver and then the liver would regrow, and then the vulture eagle would eat it again with a nice Chianti. I think that's how that myth goes. Anyway, I was looking for a lot of different Prometheus quotes. I was going to maybe quote Prometheus Unbound by Byron,

and I was going to get a quote from the movie Prometheus, the prequel to Alien, which, by the way jesse thorne that's david reese's favorite movie the movie prometheus his favorite film of all time i'm slandering david reese right now my good friend and colleague and collaborator david reese i'm slandering him because he actually likes prometheus and so i think the punishment for liking prometheus is saying that it is his favorite movie you You ever see that movie, Spike? No, I gave it a pass. It's visually stunning, atmospherically boring.

But I figured you would guess that one. So instead, I quoted the Fact Sphere, a character from the video game Portal 2. Didn't you play Portal 2, Spike or Ellie? I did play Portal 2. Yeah. I enjoyed that game very much. It's one of the facts that the fact sphere spouts throughout the game, or a certain portion of the game.

And, of course, both of the closing songs to Portal and Portal 2, written by my friend Jonathan Colton, friend of the podcast. Jon, one of these days you're going to quote a video game that I know about. Like, you're just going to go, pow! And I'm going to be like, oh, yeah, Madden 95 for the Genesis. Do you not know the games Portal and Portal 2? These had a song from Jonathan Colton, and I heard they're really wonderful games. They're really terrific puzzle games that I highly recommend.

And Spike, you played Portal 2 and enjoyed it, but you missed out on guessing correctly. So now we're going to hear this case. Spike, you bring this case because you want to get a torch for your kitchen, like a gas torch. Yes. You want to use it to set your hair on fire and to get rid of your eyebrows, correct? Or maybe the hairs on the back of my hand. Sure. Okay.

But you want to use it for what purpose? I would like to brown steaks with it after cooking them sous vide. Aha. I should have known sous vide was involved in this. Yeah, pretty much. Come on. His name's Spike and lives in Seattle. Of course he wants to sous vide a steak.

And Ella, you do not want this because you're like, why don't we just cook steaks the normal way on fire? I mean, the sous vide is wonderful, but I don't feel like we need that. We can finish them off in a pan. Well, look, anyone who wants to learn about sous viding of steaks and the sous vide method that we're referring to, if you're not familiar, is a method of very low temperature or relatively low temperature cooking for long periods of time, relatively low temperature cooking for long periods of time, which is made safe by vacuum sealing your target food, such as a steak or a chicken or vegetables, or it could be anything, into a vacuum sealed bag and then essentially poaching that bag, submerging it in water that is kept at a low temperature or your final target temperature for cooking for a long period of

time. And it allows you to really micromanage your steak. Because if you want that steak to be at 126 degrees internal temperature, 130 degrees internal temperature, then you just set the water at that and you get the steak up to that temperature and then it stays there and it won't overcook. Do I have that correct, Spike? Yeah. Yeah. What I really like about it is that even if you have a giant thick piece of steak, it cooks it exactly the same all the way through.

Absolutely right, Spike. Because when you cook a steak in the traditional way over a grill or a pan, the external surface of the steak gets heated to a very high temperature and only the middle gets to that whatever perfect medium rare you want. Whereas in the sous vide method, the entire steak is heated precisely to the temperature you want. The doneness is completely even throughout the steak and you don't have all the muss and fuss of that beautiful charred exterior. You just have this floppy piece of meat that is kind of gray on the outside. Yeah. And so that's what the torch is for.

So explain what you do with the torch after you take the steak out of the bag. Yeah, you pull it out of the bag, but it's kind of not browned and nice on the outside. Having done this, I'm going to paint a word picture for the audience. When you take that steak out of the bag, it looks like the necrotic tongue of a dead god. It's disgusting. It does not look very appetizing. You're absolutely right. And not only does it not look appetizing, that sort of brownness on the outside of the steak is really tasty.

So you want to get that brownness. And so what I want to do is use a blowtorch to brown the outside of the steak. Perhaps there are people listening to this podcast going, this guy's out of his mind, blowtorch. But this is a known technique in the sous vide world. Yes, that's correct. And so even though this is a proven and known technique, Ellie, you do not like this technique. Is your concern primarily safety or is this just one affectation too far for your home chef partner? It's definitely safety related.

What is your concern? So I personally have dealt with a number of burns from kitchen related items, mostly on other people. And it just seems like there's a lot of recipe for disaster there. You are a physician, is that correct? I am a burn and trauma surgeon. Oh. So you're familiar with the browning process. I am very familiar with the browning process.

You're familiar with the Maillard reaction, which is what happens to protein when it is exposed to high heat. That is correct. Yeah, but in a very unpleasant way. Do you see a lot of kitchen blowtorch injuries in your line of work? They are infrequent, but present. Really? Oh, so you have seen cool sous-vide-ers who overestimate their own skill with the blowtorch and have burned themselves.

I haven't asked about what they were cooking when they burned themselves with the blowtorch, but certainly I've seen people who have burned themselves with kitchen blowtorches. These could have been creme brulee injuries, you admit. I admit that it could be creme brulee. And so you have sent in some evidence, Ellie, and I am presuming that I'm about to look at some photos of horrible burns. I hope not. I didn't do that.

Oh, good. Thank you very much. No, here it is. Instead, you send in some news articles discussing various torch shenanigans and explosions and bad things happening. And we'll look at those. But first, Spike, you sent in some evidence as well well which is a video of a cute dog uh yeah hoping to sway this court well i know that uh we all love jesse's reaction to seeing cute animals um and i know that ellie is is maybe eventually going to

be bringing in some questions uh or some discussion about a tarantula so i thought it would be good to have some some visual evidence of the animals that we already have in the house. In the picture of the dog, he went inside the bag of food and then it's just his little chihuahua nose is poking out. Like, hey, yeah, I ate this food. No, but Jesse, click on the link. There's a video.

Okay, I got to click on it. Let's get this out of the way because he's attempting to sway the court and distract us from justice by showing us his video of the dog. Oh, boy. He's wearing it as a... He's like a little chihuahua guy. And he got the big bag of dog food. His head is through it like it was a yolk on an ox.

The dog got stuck while attempting to escape from dog jail. That was a really good one. Oh, wow. That was totally worth it. I'm getting honestly kind of mad at people sending me these in a like dance monkey but like this is good it is something now that people routinely will send in photos and videos of animals telling me that i have to show them to you to get you to react to it and there is a bit of a pushiness to it and And Spike, this is entirely immaterial to your case. In fact, I would dare say that giving this to me to show to Jesse is prejudicial against your case because it seems like you don't have a case. But this is a very cute dog and I do want to show it to Jesse. The footage will be available on the Judge John Hodgman page, both on Instagram

and on MaximumFun.org. And for the record, enter please into the record, Spike, the name of this dog. The dog is named the Loch Ness Monster. Boom. Cryptozoology dog name with a definite article. The Loch Ness Monster is the name of the dog? That's correct. All right.

Yeah. An integral article. Do you call it Nessie for short? Yes, we do. Pretty good. So you got a dog. Oh, look at the kitty. in a cup right there's a cat as well oh look at that little kitty i want to give the kitty a kiss that would be kaiju kaiju

the kitty named kaiju of course being referenced to the genre of Japanese giant monster movies like Godzilla. Correct. Who's naming these animals in your house, Ellie? It's a joint effort. I picked the genre, which was I wanted all of our animals to be named after monsters, and then together we come up with individualized names. All right. That's pretty awesome, because you could understand from my point of view i have a guy here who's nicknamed spike who likes sous vide and all of a sudden these animals are being trotted out with these unusual names and i'm thinking like

what else does this guy got in the kitchen uh well it doesn't get even weirder than sous vide i think that's probably the most highly affected cooking instrument that you can have today. Ellie, does your partner have other dumb or unnecessarily expensive kitchen stuff? I don't think so. Oh, actually, there's one thing that he has. He has this Kona coffee maker that's super fancy, where you have an open flame alcohol thing on the bottom and you watch the water go up and then it filters through the coffee

and then back down through a percolator back into the bottom. Like a chemistry distillation coffee maker? Oh, yeah. With an open flame. With an open flame, alcohol-based. Spike, Ellie is a physician who deals with burns and trauma and you're just trying to stock up your house with as many open

flames as possible are you trying to gaslight her on fire i don't think that it's fair to call this uh coffee maker like strictly mine uh we i don't coffee. That's true, but we got it together and you were 100% supportive of getting it when we got it. It was a Christmas gift for him. Alright. So, Spike, have you worked with a blowtorch on a stake before?

Yes, briefly once. Oh, okay. At a friend's house. That he convinced to get a sous vide. Oh, so Spike, you convinced your friend to get a sous vide rig, and then he went to the next step. Yep. And now you've got to keep up with the Torchies. How did you get into sous vide, Spike, and what do you like to cook in it? I mean, I mostly like to cook meats in it, and I'm not really sure what originally got me on it I think just you know reading stuff on

the internet and people talking about how how restaurants use them and how it's like what I really like about it is that um it makes it really straightforward to get meat done the way that you want it and and you can kind of put this thing on and then you don't have to like have precise timings and temperatures and things like that. It just sort of takes all of the randomness out of cooking meat. For sure. Although, to be clear, there is a time element. As our friend J. Kenji Lopez-Alt has demonstrated, if you leave most proteins in the sous vide for a really long time. They will get mushy.

Yes, that's correct. But the sort of precision that is required is in sort of tens of minutes to hours, not, you know, one minute or 30 seconds too long and it's overdone kind of stuff where you're cooking in other methods. But you didn't answer my question, Spike, which is what are the other meats other than steak that you're making that you like to do in the sous vide? I like to do chicken a lot and pork chops. And so how do you brown them when they come out? Well, the chicken we normally put into a pasta dish. And so we don't bother to try and brown it. We just break it up and put it in. Okay. So you're talking about like a chicken breast on the bone, or are you talking about like chicken fillets? Usually boneless, skinless breasts. Right.

Okay. Gotcha. And pork chops? You just like having gray floppy pork chops or do you sear them off at some point? Well, I mean, since I don't have a blowtorch now, the way that I sear them is in a stupidly hot pan. That works, doesn't it i mean it works but it sort of feels much more dangerous to me than uh than a blowtorch right like if if i had this pan i have to put oil in it and then

like heat it really really hot and then you put the meat in the meat is is wet the oil splatters you know like oil fires are definitely a thing that happen in the kitchen whereas uh with a blowtorch i can just take it out of the sous vide bag, put it on a sheet pan, and then have at it with this. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound.

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Glow torch, and there's like nothing flammable around it. Like you can't get a chunk of meat to like start on fire. So it just doesn't seem nearly as dangerous as the other ways of browning. I'm going to be honest with you. The phrase, you can't get a chunk of meat to start on fire, sounds like a challenge to me. Let's take a quick break and hear about another wonderful show provided to your ears by MaximumFun.org. We'll be back in just a second on Judge John Hotchman. Court is back in session. Let's return to the courtroom to hear more of the case. Ellie, do you enjoy the sous vide cooking? How long has Spike been doing it?

Let's see. July of last year, so just a year and a half now. Okay. And what are the results? How do you like that chicken that comes out of a bag compared to chicken that comes out of an oven? It's actually really tasty. comes out of a oven it's actually um really tasty i actually think that we cook the chicken like more regularly to like the like level that we like it um previously we were like you like a medium rare right you like a medium rare not chicken no okay no fully cooked ideally right

um but i actually the chicken is fantastic and the steaks are also quite good and the other argument for this kind of cooking of course is that it concentrates flavors you can put in different aromatics and different spices into the bag and with chicken you don't lose any moisture because it's all stuck in there it's a big bag of wet chicken in a tepid pool of water for hours it's delicious it's the form of cooking that robs all of the romance of cooking from cooking and turns it into a weird science fiction experiment, which is part of the reason it's fun. But I guess what I'm asking you, Ellie, is before I rule on whether or not Spike should graduate to having a super hot, high intensity open

flame in his hand before I, Prometheus, give him fire. Is he good at this? Is he a good sous vide cook? Is he a good cook in general? He's definitely a very good cook. And he's the one that does most of the cooking in the family. So yes, he is a good cook. He is very careful. And I was going to ask, I mean, is he normally a careful cook? Has he had accidents before that give you pause before Prometheus gives him a blowtorch? No, he's not particularly clumsy or anything like that. That's me. You're not helping your case any here.

You have to store the blowtorch. All right. Before we get to that, quick question. Did you eat the steak that Spike made at the friend's house when he got to use his friend's blowtorch yes and how did it compare to a sous vide steak that was finished in a stupidly hot presumably cast iron pan did you notice a difference i did notice a difference and i liked the one with butter in the cast iron pan the best. Oh, better than a Torchy. Yes.

Right. So, Ellie, you send in some other evidence that pertains to this case, which are these news articles with headlines like creme brulee torch explodes in Swiss restaurant injuring 15. There's a lot of people to get hit by a creme brulee torch. Those creme brulee torches are little teeny guys. Yeah, but the Swiss really cram them in there into a creme brulee torch. Those creme brulee torches are little teeny guys. Yeah, but the Swiss really cram them in there into those creme brulee restaurants. Yeah. The old Swiss saying is, if you're cooking with high heat, get everyone into the kitchen. I think that's how it goes.

Headline, chef sent to burns unit after, quote, gas explosion at London restaurant. That's from the UK. Woman sues Disneyland after chef mistakenly brulees her face. And then finally, Mary Berry from the Great British Bake Off or Baking Show or whatever it's called. It's called different things in different territories. Says you can't use a blowtorch to get that crunchy top on a creme brulee. She says it should be under a grill. That's the traditional way to do it. What are you trying to establish with these news reports? That blowtorches are dangerous and they're not necessary. All right. You have to appreciate that these are just a few stories. Did you find any more?

So I think all of those are within the last two years. Okay. Have you firsthand personally in your work as a burn doctor cared for patients who were injured through home blowtorch cooking accidents? Home blowtorch that was a cooking blowtorch, but not a cooking-related incident, if that makes sense. Sorry, so someone had a cooking blowtorch, but were not cooking with it. Correct. What, to attack someone? To get rid of bugs.

That's awesome. Oh, what a bad idea. I'm willing to promise not to get rid of bugs with the torch if you grant me the permission to get one, Judge. If I were to order in your favor, do you have a torch in mind? And you may use a brand name. No, I mean, you know, just a standard kind of kitchen blowtorch is all I want. Okay. What are you afraid is going to happen?

You mentioned something, Ellie, about storing the blowtorch, which would seem to be the least of your worries when we're talking about a live active flame. What is your concern about the storage of the blowtorch, which would seem to be the least of your worries when we're talking about a live active flame. What is your concern about the storage of the blowtorch? Well, I trust Spike to be conscientious when he's actually using it. But we do, as you have seen, have little critters running around the house. So, you know, tripping over them or having some accident befall it, or if you store it. There was one news article that you didn't mention about a father and son that had stored a blowtorch in their kitchen, and it actually, like, I think blew the door off of it.

And they suffered injury. Did you determine from that article that they were storing their blowtorch inappropriately, like in the oven? It was unclear. All right. So you're afraid the Loch Ness Monster, aka Nessie, might accidentally trip over the blowtorch inappropriately, like in the oven? It was unclear. All right. So you're afraid the Loch Ness Monster, aka Nessie, might accidentally trip over the blowtorch and set his dog food bag collar on fire? Yes. So Spike, why do you think we're here? Why do you think Ellie is nervous about your having the blowtorch? Is this typical in your relationship, or do you think she has

another motive? I think that it's just, you know, related to Ellie's line of work. You know, she deals with burns. They're quite traumatic. And so she's just extra sensitive about the dangers of various kinds of fire things in the house. Whereas, you know, there are lots of things in the house that are dangerous or driving a car around or things like that. You sort of don't really think about how dangerous those things are.

But in a sort of sober assessment of your risk, the blowtorch wouldn't be the thing that is likely to actually harm me. So you're saying that your wife was a trained physician who's actually trained burn victims and has seen all the things that go wrong as just too sensitive. She has heightened sensitivity to burn injuries. How about that? Spike, you're saying that your wife, a burn physician, is actually a Frankenstein, afraid of fire. I don't think I'd go that far. Jesse, how do you feel about Frankensteins compared to Draculas?

I have no problem with Frankensteins. They're just trying to do their best. They're misunderstood. Right, misunderstood monsters. Not active bloodsuckers like a Dracula's. Oh, God, Dracula's. Oh. Ugh.

Ugh, kind of freaking out over here. Let's move on to something else. All right. I hate Dracula's. Spike, do you not also believe that there is another motive in her denying you this blood torch? I heard tell of a tarantula. Yeah, so I don't believe that there is another motive in her denying you this blowtorch? I heard tell of a tarantula. Yeah, so I don't think that that is another motive. I think that that is a sort of specious argument against the blowtorch.

Because basically when I said, oh, I want a blowtorch, and she said, no, I don't think you should get one. And I said, that is unreasonable. She said, well, you won't let me get a tarantula. And is that so? Is it the case that Ellie would like a tarantula and you will not allow her to have one? So I don't think it's the case that she would really like a tarantula, but like, we were having this conversation and she was talking sort of wistfully about remembering growing up and having this tarantula. And I like put a lid on that really quickly and said, no, we're not getting a tarantula just in case you're ever thinking about it.

Well, wait a minute. Why? Ellie, tell me about the wistful reminiscence of tarantula's past that you were having and your actual or specious desire to get a new one. Did you have one as a child? It was my brother's technically, but it lived in the family room right in front of the fireplace. Was it named the Abominable Snowman? It was called Free Stuff because we got it from the pet store and they were so desperate to get rid of it that it came with its little tiny terrarium and a bunch of other stuff with it. So it was not free.

The stuff that came with it was free. Correct. Like take this tarantula off our hands and we'll gift you an enclosure so it doesn't crawl all over your house. I would have imagined that you took it home from a box on the street corner labeled free stuff that also was full of like 80s horror VHS tapes. That's what I was hoping too. It's like we have some old paperbacks

we don't want and also nine tarantulas. Look, I've heard a lot of great pet names on this show and in this very episode but Free Stuff the Tarantula, that is the greatest. Spike. That's real good. You gotta acknowledge that's awesome having a

tarantula named free stuff. Why should I not shut down this conversation right now and order Ellie to get a brand new tarantula named free stuff too? Is that the number two or T-O-O? You know what? Ellie's choice. It's your tarantula. Free stuff too. Electric boogaloo.

No, that's not allowed i said ellie's choice no riffing spike no riffing yeah spike you should know this is 2018 it's free stuff to the legend of curly's gold spike that's so awesome why don't you want a tarantula in the house this would be so easily solved if i could order, yes, tarantula, yes, blowtorch. Bring some adventure into this house. I think I have a sort of not unreasonable fear of spiders. Yeah, but you'd have a blowtorch to defend yourself. I thought I was supposed to promise not to use it for things that aren't cooking. Yeah.

Tarantulas are not insects. It's different. They're arachnids. You can fight a tarantula with a blowtorch if it comes for you because it's not going to. Right, Ellie? Tarantulas are nice, aren't they? She was very sweet. Tell me a little bit about Free Stuff.

So she was a rose-haired tarantula. And when we got her, she only had seven legs. And she molted a couple of times. So we had her many years. And so I slowly started regrowing that leg. I didn't know tarantulas could regrow a leg. And she only had seven legs and she was thrown out in a box marked free? Exactly.

Well, how did she lose her leg? I don't know how she lost her leg. That was before we had her. They can live like 20 years. Whoa. That's amazing. I'd like to point out, this is another reason not to get a tarantula. Spike, stand by.

Tell me more, Ellie. Did you let her crawl all over your arms and stuff? So my aunt, who worked at the Desert Museum in Arizona, would come up and kind of be the one that did most of the handling of her. Most of us just kind of watched her eat crickets. What's a tarantula like? Are they smart? Do they come when they're called?

They certainly don't do any tricks. They'd kind of dance around in their cage like spinning webs and eat little bugs and be interesting to look at. How big was Free Stuff? Like 16 inches long? Probably with her legs spread out, like the size of like a normal person's palm without the fingers. So, you know, from front to back, her torso was probably four-ish inches, and then her legs were another couple. And they are not venomous,

correct? Correct. They can throw the hair on their, I think it's their back and their abdomen, that can kind of create a rash or feel like a bee sting, but they're not venomous. Throw their hair? What wonders of nature we live amidst. Was there ever a moment where you worried that free stuff might actually be a Dracula in disguise? Nope. Because she just liquefied the entire cricket. She didn't suck its blood. She liquefied the cricket? Yeah, in its exoskeleton. This is getting better and better. What ended up happening to Freestuff?

She eventually passed away. And was she 20? and was she 20 um well we don't know how old she was when we got her but um she was with us for certainly over five years and i think it was closer to eight to ten oh wow you gave her a good life i think so good job folks should know that spike sent in no ellie did you send in this photo of free stuff the really fuzzy one yeah that was the only one my father could find ali sent in some a photo of free stuff it is one of the most terrifying photos i've ever seen it truly looks like a polaroid that was found on the floor of an abandoned cabin jesse thorne's giving it a good old-fashioned jesse thorne laugh, but it's also weird.

So weird. Do you want a tarantula Ellie? Or is this all part of some weird mind game brinksmanship that you guys are pulling on each other? Yeah. Are you just sending us these pictures? Cause you want to brag that you have encyclopedias. Oh, uh,

no. Um, I just think if he's going to arbitrarily say, I can't have something, then I should be able to have an item that I should just be allowed to say, no, you can't have this. This is something that makes me uncomfortable. So you're saying it's mind game sprinksmanship. You do not have an honest desire to have a tarantula in your house. Correct.

All right. Hmm. All right. So if I were to order in your favor obviously spike you would have me order that you get a blowtorch yes and that we don't get a tarantula and you don't know exactly what kind of blowtorch you want yet but i presume you want to get one that's better than your friends because that's what's happening here this is a sous vide arms race between you and your pal you don't want to get a better one you want to get a better one? You want to get a bigger one? Well, a better one anyway.

Mm hmm. And while I will acknowledge that these headlines are horrific, they are a small number of accidents compared to the number of torches that are in regular use, both in home and commercial kitchens. I would argue that you don't know how many blow torches are in use. Oh, no, I have that number right in front of me. You know what it is? One billion.

It's weird. It's a round number, too. It's really weird. Because I have a counter. As each one is registered, I have a Google alert, and it just hit one billion 15 minutes ago. It's pretty amazing. I agree with you. Obviously, I don't know.

I don't have a counter, but I think it's safe to say that a lot of them are in use a lot of the time and they're not always exploding. But that said, the concern is real. This is dangerous stuff, Spike. You have to acknowledge those canisters. If they're not stored properly, bad things can happen. And of course, it's a very high intensity open flame. So though accidents of this kind might be less usual in the life of someone who does not treat a burn victim every day, what precautions do you offer and are you willing to take to make Ellie feel more comfortable with your ownership of a very, very dangerous piece of equipment?

Starting with storing it out of reach of animals and other critters. Do you have a house or an apartment? We have an apartment right now. We've lived in a house in the past. So using it for cooking and being conscientious with it. Having water and a pot lid and things like that around when I'm cooking with it. Do you have a fire extinguisher in your kitchen currently? Yes, we do. How long ago did you get it?

Several years. Okay, you need to replace that. Okay. Do those precautions seem reasonable to you, Ellie, or do they not make you feel better? I would rather just not have the blowtorch in the house. Are you afraid that it will spontaneously explode? Things tend to happen badly when alcohol is mixed and people's judgment is definitely clouded. And so I know that us and our friends all enjoy a drink here and there and that people

can have really bad ideas. So I would say let's just not have it as an option. Do you generally have a cocktail while you're cooking, Spike? On occasion, yes. Often. All right. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to go into my tarantula habitat and confer with my 35 tarantulas, all of whom have all of their legs, by the way, not to brag. And I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Ellie, how are you feeling about your chances in this case? Not great.

Why is that? Well, because it's just a comfort thing. It's just something that I don't really want. And that's not actually a really solid reason. Have you thought about the possibility that you get what you want, he gets what he wants, and the dog uses the blowtorch on the tarantula? I'm more afraid the dog's going to use the blowtorch on the cat. It's an age-old story. Indeed. Spike, how are you feeling about your chances?

I'm feeling okay. Sort of cautiously optimistic. Do you think you acquitted yourself well in the courtroom? Yeah, I think I made the points that I wanted to make. I mean, you seem optimistic. Either that or you just used a bunch of CBD oil. I'm feeling pretty good, but, you know, not counting my chickens, sous vide,

before they are ready. How come you're not browning the chicken? Just because you can't see it doesn't mean that the effect doesn't make it taste better. The Mallard effect or whatever it's called. Browning food makes it taste good. That's why roast vegetables are good. Yeah, just lazy going straight into a pasta dish.

Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun

or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. I disapprove. We make fresh pesto. And also the chicken is less unappealing if it's not been browned.

Chicken coming out of sous vide actually doesn't look weird. But it tastes better if you brown it. Brown it next time for me. Okay, will do. Also, everybody

let's cook our onions a little before we put them in the slow cooker. Okay, will do. Also, everybody, let's cook our onions a little before we put them in the slow cooker. Okay, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a second. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself.

A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. So I just burned up a steak back there in my tarantula habitat because I was needing a snack. I used my own blowtorch. And I maybe should have recused myself from this case because I need to acknowledge that I own one. I own a Burns-O-Matic. I'm going to tell you this for future reference.

I own a Burns-O-Mzomatic TS8000 high intensity trigger start torch that is screwed onto a Burnzomatic brand mini canister of propane, the kind that you would get at any hardware store for a camp stove or something like that. And the reason that I have it is for this reason. I am curious about sous vide cooking. I was doing a fair amount of it over the summer, including trying out this process of cooking steak in a bag, in a tepid pool of water, and then taking it out and then burning it with a blowtorch. I only went down this road because my father-in-law had given us

a slightly lesser intensity blowtorch trigger, also by Burns and Amatic, because that's what he uses to light his fires in his wood-burning stove. And I will tell you this right now, both that lesser intensity torch and certainly the Burns and Amatic TS-8000, that will start a fire in a wood-burning stove or a fireplace with the quickness. Fantastic for that. You know what it's also good for? It's also good for welding pipes. It's very good for doing torching things. You would think that it would be great for searing a steak. But what I discovered,

and this is my own experience, is it's not that great for it. It's actually a very time-consuming process that, for me, did not get the sear that I wanted on the steak. A, and B, made my kitchen smell bad. I did not like it, and I will continue to experiment with it because I know you liked it. But I'm inclined, for a matter of taste continue to experiment with it because I know you liked it. But I'm inclined, from a matter of taste, to agree with Ellie that if you're going to slow boil a steak in a bag in tepid water for two hours and then bring it out and you're going to sear it off in one way or another, a super hot cast iron pan with butter in it is a really good method for doing that. And you would put some oil and some butter because that butter will brown and intensify

the flavors. And this is all mapped out. If you want to learn how to do this at Serious Eats, our friend and occasional guest expert, J. Kenji Lopez-Alt has huge amounts of information and tutorials that are very fun to read. And he is a proponent of sous vide staking. Ultimately, I think sous vide steak, in all of my experiments with it this summer, because I was really interested, I tried different thicknesses of meat, I tried different cuts of meat and everything else. Ultimately, I found that it was not worth the effort. People have enjoyed steak cooked over a grill or in a pan for a long time because it's good.

And while meticulous temperature control is attractive to those of us like you and me, Spike, who want to have control over everything in their lives, the only benefit that I could see to cooking a steak in a sous vide style is that you could pre-cook a bunch of them to that perfect level of doneness ahead of time before a big dinner party and stick them in the fridge. And then you bring them out, bring them to room temperature and then sear them off. And you've got dinner on the table in 35 seconds. But that's if you're serving steak for a crowd, when usually I serve steak, you know, Rosemary's baby style. I cook it in a pan for

two minutes and then eat it over the sink as quickly as possible because I'm carrying the devil's baby. So simply put, in my experience, I have not found, even with the TS8000, the highest intensity blowtorch you can get, this to be a very satisfactory way of cooking. I don't happen to feel that a steak is well served by sous vide. But the question isn't, what do I think? The question is, is it fair to prevent Spike from discovering this himself? From getting a blowtorch, which is not a particularly expensive thing, and when handled safely, is handled safely by lots of people who own them, and when handled safely, is handled safely by lots of people who own them,

and continue his experimentation. For that matter, is it fair for me to deny a tarantula a good home? With two good co-pets in the form of Kaiju, and in the form of the Loch Ness Monster. The obvious solution to this is to put a pox on both of your houses and force you both to get a blowtorch and a tarantula one may not follow without the other but i am going to say this only one of those things belongs in an apartment. Spike, do you have a deck? We have a small deck, yeah.

When I say that I have a blowtorch that I use to light fires and attempt to burn steaks and also keep on hand to destroy raccoon poop because the CDC suggests you fight it with fire. That's because part of the year we live in Maine. And in Maine, you get to have all kinds of life-threatening items that you rarely use. I also have a chainsaw that I will never get near after I took that one chainsaw class. I like my legs. I don't want to cut them off. I'm sure they're going to get letters from lots of apartment dwellers who have propane torches in their home, but I don't think it's appropriate to have an apartment. I don't think you have, I mean, you have a deck.

They say that these torches should be stored outside. The canisters need to be stored in a place with a lot of airflow around them. But I think this is a high intensity tool that is a problem in a high density living environment. I think that it's highly unlikely and almost impossible that it would spontaneously combust. But based on a little reading on the internet I did, if you have, for example, a bad seal, because what you do with these torch heads is you screw them on, and if you don't screw it on enough and there's a slow leak, then that can be bad news

next time you hit the pilot light or light a candle or something. It's bad, bad. I will say this as well. The kind of blowtorch that you are interested in in order to get that steak seared, has to be at least a TS8000. I don't know that it goes higher than that. And I still didn't find it to be a very good sear. Maybe I'm using it wrong. Maybe I'll keep trying it, but it's still,

I felt like my kitchen smelled terrible. You can't do it with a little creme brulee thing. That's very, very low intensity compared to what you need in order to get that sear on that steak. So the right thing to do, I mean, the fairest thing to do is to force a tarantula and a blowtorch on both of you, but I don't think it's fair enough to your neighbors. So I'm going to essentially rule this. this. You may have a blowtorch as long as you do extensive research into not merely the safe handling of that blowtorch, but also the safe storage. Consult with experts and get a new fire extinguisher. And when you undertake this stake thing, you have Ellie standing by with the fire extinguisher ready to hit you hard with it in the face.

Should you mess up? And also you get a tarantula and care for it for 20 years. I mean, that's an option and that is available to both of you, but those are the conditions. I don't want you to stop in your experimentation. I don't want to stop your journey towards a blowtorch. I don't know whether you will have the same experience of disappointment as I. But it is a thing that is super duper dangerous and I don't think you should have in the apartment,

but I'm going to leave it up to you. And if you're going to put that anxiety onto Ellie, it is only fair that you have the anxiety that a tarantula is there waiting to throw its hairs at you. That is called justice. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Ellie, how are you feeling about this decision? I'm kind of looking forward to Free Stuff 2. Free Stuff 2, The Legend of Curly's Gold. Full name. Of course. Spike, how are you feeling? A little disappointed, if I'm honest. Why is that?

Because I definitely don't want to get a tarantula.? Because I definitely don't want to get a tarantula. And so if I don't want to get a tarantula, then I guess I can't get a blowtorch. I mean, tarantulas are pretty cool. Did you know they can throw their hairs? Yeah, I've been told. Doesn't sound that

pleasant to me. Spike, Ellie, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books. Swift justice right around the corner. But first, we want to thank Mike McDavid, who named this week's episode Torch Reform. If you'd like to name a future episode, be sure to like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets. Hashtag JJHO. Always enjoy seeing the conversation about the program. And

check out the Maximum Fund subreddit at MaximumFund.reddit.com to chat about the episode. We're also on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman, where you will find evidence for this week's case. John Hodgman, where you will find evidence for this week's case. This week's episode recorded in Seattle by Chris Otey at KUOW Puget Sound Public Radio. Our producer, the always capable Ms. Jennifer Marmer. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment. Are you ready, Hodgman? I am ready. Ben asks, when washing up, I put cutlery in the drying basket handled down with the head at the top.

My housemate puts the head of the cutlery down. I think that the bottom of the basket doesn't dry as effectively, and it's easier to fit them in the basket head up. I only make an exception for sharp knives, which I put in the basket blade down to avoid injury. My housemate thinks it's unhygienic to risk touching the heads of the cutlery with one's hands when removing the cutlery from the basket. Who's right? So I have a dishwasher that has a top tray where you lay in the cutlery on its side, which is great because you never get stabbed in any other way.

When it's a basket dishwasher, I always put the heads up, as it were, the spoons and the forks and stuff. And there is no question that I'm touching a bunch of fork tines that I should not be touching. There is a hygiene issue. But I would say do whatever gets your cutlery cleanest. If you find putting them head down gets them thoroughly clean, then do it. But I don't know. I've always put them head up. And I don't know whether that's because of just tradition or superstition, because there's a lot of superstition around dishwashers. You

know that, right, Jesse? There are a lot of haunted dishwashers. Sure. There's a lot of, like, if you put, you know, three spoons up means is bad luck, you know? I mean, if we get serious about covering haunted dishwashers, we're kind of encroaching on the McElroy's territory. So that's like their thing. Yeah, we don't want to do that. I have always put my cutlery with the business end down. Really?

Because that puts it closest to the water sprayer and makes it easier to pull up out of the thing. And you find that it gets all your forks and knives and stuff clean? Yeah. I think the only thing you really got to be careful about when you're putting that cutlery in there is making sure that your sharp knives aren't banging against anything. Right. Because that would dull the edge.

Yeah. My dishwasher has like a little flip down tray on the top that you can use with slots for knives. So, you know, you can make one of the little trays, your knife tray, and put the knives in the slot, your steak knives or what have you. And then you just got to be careful not to let the spoons nest. Yeah. If the spoons spoon, you're going to have food in those spoons.

But besides that, I mean, I've never had a problem. What I honestly believe, John, is that there is no irrational thing that I care more about than someone else loading my dishwasher in a different manner than the way I would load my dishwasher. how to solve the puzzle perfectly. And there is a beautiful solution that only you can see. I'm with you on that. So I think it is highly personal. I think as long as your stuff is getting washed correctly, then no one should criticize you, Ben. The only hard and fast rules about cutlery in the dishwasher, of course, is don't let the spoons nest, as Jesse said. Do not put your Burnzomatic TS-8000 propane torch in the dishwasher. That's not where it belongs. And if you put three sets of tongs in the dishwasher,

you summon a demon. Everyone knows this. You open it up next time, it's going to be a Dracula inside. Don't do it. Sorry, Jesse. I know it's scary, but I have to warn the people. People gotta know. That's about it for this week's episode.

Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. No case is too small. We reads them all, except the Dracula ones. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Oh, friends, I'm demanding an all-Draculas episode. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.