Judge John Hodgman - Transcendental Irritation

Episode Date: January 31, 2018

Liz brings the case against her coworker, John. John likes to meditate in their department’s workspace. But Liz thinks he needs to find a new place! Who's right? Who's wrong? Thank you to Regan Blanchard for suggesting this week's title! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, transcendental irritation. Liz brings a case against her co-worker John. John likes to meditate in their department's workspace. Liz thinks he needs to find a new place. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Hodgman completed his meditation and opened his eyes. His pale, flame-savaged face stared back at him from out of the reflective, black, transparous steel of his pressurized meditation chamber. Without the neural connection to his armor, he was conscious

of the stumps of his legs, the ruin of his arms, the perpetual pain in his flesh. He welcomed it. Pain fed his hate, and hate fed his strength. Once, as a minor television personality, he had meditated to find peace. But now, as a podcaster, he meditated to sharpen the edges of his anger. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, you may swear the litigants in. Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he only pretended to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? I do. Yes. Very well. Judge Hodgman. That's right. I pretended

to read it by staring at all of the pages one by one for hours and hours on end, but refusing to read any words. Liz and John, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors. Can either of you please name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Liz, we'll start with you. How about I'll I'll probably just guess that it might be a Star Wars reference. Might be a Star Wars reference. Sounded like Darth Vader, maybe. Alright.

Not very specific. Do you want to be more specific as I open the guessbook? Um, I don't really know how to be more specific. That's fair. That's quite fair. We'll just put in something about Darth Vader, maybe. John, what is your guess?

Paul Atreides from Dune. Paul Atreides from Dune. Boy, I have to say, these are two good guesses that are right in my wheelhouse, if there were any wheels

in Star Wars. There are wheels, I believe there are wheels in Dune. On those big spice collectors. A spice harvester has wheels, or at least treads. It's right in my spice harvester tread house. But one guess is wrong, and

one guess is very, very, very, very, very good and close to right, but also wrong. In that it was not specific enough. Guess what, Liz? Yes, of course it had something to do with Darth Vader. Good job, Liz. Thank you.

If you had said, is that a passage from the Star Wars novel Lords of the Sith by Paul S. Kemp, I would have said, yes, but what year was it published? And if you had said 2015, I would have said yes but what year was it published and if you had said 2015 i would have said oh also correct but what page and if you had said page five then i would have found in your favor immediately without any further arguments uh but you were not quite specific enough yes it was describing this is a novel in the new extended universe. Some nerds will know what I'm talking about. Other nerds are busy gnashing their teeth over this. From this novel, Lords of the Sith by Paul S. Kemp, describing

of course Darth Vader's meditation chamber which was only seen on screen once in The Empire Strikes Back. It was that big geodesic dome he sat in it wasn't really it wasn't a dome i don't know don't yell at me everybody you know what i'm talking about it was a pod that's where he could take his helmet off and just chill

i love that aspect we learned a lot about darth vader and empire strikes back one is that dude makes time for meditation at work, much like John, the defendant in this case. Yes. Second, we also learn that Darth Vader enjoyed lunch on Cloud City, even though he was going to torture Han Solo just to provide a psychic bait for Luke Skywalker. He was still going to have a nice meal with him when they when they walk in and Darth Vader stealsader steals his gun and says now will you please sit down to lunch with me i was just recently learned from my own son that there is a whole page of dialogue that is lunch with darth vader that was never shot for obvious reasons dumb but it was an awkward lunch i like to see him just constantly trying over and over to eat a maple bar. He hits the helmet.

Oh, it's the helmet. Oh, that's the thing about that scene. They go into this room. Lando walks them into this beautiful dining room and Darth Vader and Boba Fett come out. And he's like, won't you join us for lunch?

Like you can't have lunch when two guys are wearing helmets the whole time. All right, Liz and John, back to you, John. First of all, I notice here in some of the evidence that Liz presented that she refers to you as Johnny. Do you have a preference as to how I address you in this courtroom? I'd prefer John.

All right. Is it okay that I call you Johnny? Of course. My mom used to call me Johnny. Oh, you guys are not fighting at all. At work, we call him Sweet Johnny. At work? We call him Sweet Johnny at work.

Well, he must be very sweet. I'm not surprised at all that he's sweet because he's taken time out to get in touch with his body and his breathing and to be mindful. Isn't that so, John? Very true. I want to be clear that I am pretty sure his work name is Sweet Johnny at Work, sort of like the hip hop producer Mike Will made it. Yeah, it's not just Sweet Johnny. It's Sweet Johnny at Work. It was a co-worker dubbed that as my blues name. And it stuck. So speaking of blues, Liz, tell us a little bit about where you work.

We work at the Blue Man Group Theater here in Chicago. I am the makeup and wardrobe supervisor, and Johnny here is the sound supervisor. Oh, wow. Those are big jobs in the Blue Man's organization. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, we're important. Yeah, but right now, Liz, I would presume makeup, you kind of got it down. Yeah. Not a lot of variation they just have replaced the people who used to work under her

with one automotive spray painting booth not yet hopefully that doesn't happen so if you're listening and you don't know blue man group is a long running you know musical comedy mime performance troupe, consisting of three characters who are the blue men who are dudes. I believe they're all dudes. I don't know if a woman has ever played a blue man. Has that ever happened to your knowledge, Liz? There's been women. There have been. Yeah, there's been women. But currently, I don't think there are any women.

Gender is unimportant because they're these sort of funny, naive creatures who are entirely blue like Smurfs but they have the stature of human beings. And they're bald. Yeah. Right? Sure. And they interact and they do skits and they do musics and stuff. Exactly.

I'm going to be honest with you. I've only ever seen them on TV. I've never even been to the thing. And I live here in New York City. Well, we'll change that. We'll get you in. Well, I appreciate that. I'll go.

Yeah, you too. Have you been to Blue Man's, Jesse? No, but my former colleague, Mariel Reyes, used to work there for years and was very fond of it. Oh, that's right. I remember that. Mariel's so wonderful. Hi, Mariel.

So let me ask you this question, Liz, before we even go on to your beef with Sweet Johnny at work. Is it a trade secret, or can you tell me how long does it take to get that blue man bald cap on and makeup and everything else? Is there a bald cap or are these just men and women who have been shaved bald and they get blue put all over them? Well, some of them have been shaved bald, but that's not a requirement. There is the bald cap and the blue makeup.

I mean, we've been doing it for so long that we can kind of bang it out in sometimes 20 minutes. But, you know, we allow about 30, 35 minutes. Remember, your job is makeup and wardrobe supervisor. You can't reveal that they don't need you anymore. Don't say that on this very popular podcast. Like, yeah, we're totally coasting. We just spray some blue paint on them and put some dark colored tunics on and then we're done. How long have you been working there?

I started there part time in 2010 and then I became the supervisor in 2012. All right. So it's been five, six years. Yeah, five to six years as of this recording. Yes. And Sweet Johnny at work, you also, you were the sound supervisor there. How long have you been with Blue Man in Chicago? I've been with him for 19 years.

Boy, oh boy. Have you got seniority over Liz? Yeah. Wow. Seems to me like you should be able to do low disposition any damn place you want. But Liz takes issue because you have a practice of meditating at work.

And specifically where, Liz? What is the crux of your dispute with Johnny? Well, we have a kind of a joined workspace sort of in the attic area of your dispute with Johnny? Well, we have a kind of a joined workspace sort of in the attic area of the theater. And it's probably about a maybe 16 by 12 space. Don't you think it's about that size? Anyway, it's a bigger space.

And maybe I take up probably over half of it. And he has... About three-fourths of it. Three- over half of it. And he has about three fourths of it. Three fourths of it. But yes, but you don't need any more than that. Are you saying that you are you saying, Liz, that you take half and Sweet Johnny at work takes three fourths of it? Because that doesn't add up. I take more than half. Oh, you have three quarters of it.

Yes. Sweet Johnny was just correcting you in his sweet, sweet way. Well, OK, so our our combined workspace, he has, yeah, maybe about a quarter of it, and I have three quarters of it. But it's because I have a nice big sewing table, a nice cutting table. I keep all my kind of all the inventory of all the consumable stuff we use. This is the Liz I need, the Liz who justifies her do-nothing job. Fantastic. Lay it all out there.

Machinery, equipment. I do. I have a sewing machine. I have my ironing board. I have all the costumes that we're working on, all of the backstock of the costumes, all of the boots, gloves, all sorts of stuff. Yeah.

And vats and vats and vats of blue goo to dump people in. Yeah. Let's pause there for a moment. Quick question. Sweet Johnny at work. Yeah. Do you have any problem with the amount of space that Liz takes up in this shared workspace? Well, I've been pretty accommodating.

But the space originally, it was just me up there and storage. And she was at a different end of the attic, as she calls it, and then she needed more space. So management just moved her in there. Ooh. And it just kind of, her space, my space keeps shrinking as she says, I need more space. It doesn't keep shrinking. It's been the same size since I moved up there a few years ago. No, I mean like shelving space.

You know, you were like, can you move this stuff and can you move that away? So I just, you know, I consolidate and, you know, do what I can. Liz, do you dispute these facts? Have you been taking advantage of Sweet Johnny at Work's sweetness and taking up extra shelf space? No, I don't believe I've been taking advantage of his sweetness. Liz, could you interpret this noise? That you just made.

Yes. Okay. So when I moved up there, there were some shelving areas that were just full of some junk. So I kind of initiated it all. I was like, let's clear all this stuff. Let's get this space that was just kind of not being used. And I'm going to use it because when I became a full timer, there wasn't a place for the wardrobe person to work. And I found this empty kind of wasteland and I,

and I made it happen. This wasteland was sweet Johnny and works home. Sweet Johnny and work. How long have you inhabited this space with whatever equipment you need? And then mostly storage like a phantom in the rafters of this theater? How long was it just you and only you? How many years? And follow-up question. How many mice did you know by name?

I don't think I was up there in the very beginning, but it was soon afterwards. So I probably went up there 15 years at least, I would estimate. 15 years total. Yeah, it was just me and storage from the theater manager. He had stuff up there, which was just lockers of stuff. So it really was not Johnny's. Liz. Liz.

Liz. It's not yours either. Guess what? It belongs to the theater. How many years ago did Liz begin her encroaching? I believe it was 2014. So this is now almost three, it was like three, four years ago. Three or four years ago.

And the problem is that from time to time sweet johnny at work meditates in the space is that correct yes that's correct how often do you meditate sweet johnny at work at work at work in total how often do you meditate sweet johnny at work at work thank you for clarifying that. It's, let's say... Are you doing it right now? What happened? Five, six times. Oh, sorry.

I had to go to the astral plane to think about it. About six times. Six times a week. Oh, okay. So Monday through Friday, but twice on Fridays? Well, it's theater, so it's like Wednesday through Sunday. Yeah. Right.

With a matinee on Sunday, yeah. Got it. I often will meditate between shows. We have a lot of downtime. So three shows on Saturday. Right. Yeah, I know you do have a lot of downtime because this whole show is totally locked in. It's 20 years old.

Sorry, didn't mean to insult your craft. No comment. totally locked in it's 20 years old sorry i didn't mean to insult your craft no comment so how long will you meditate for in a session and is there a particular uh practice of meditation that you follow i've done many techniques but the main technique i do is the transcendental meditation so it's a mantra it's 20 minutes, but with sort of the beginning and end of it, it takes about 25 minutes. 25 minutes, and there is a mantra that you are chanting silently to yourself or vocally? Silently, yes. Look, I don't know how it's done.

I never did it. You know what kind of meditation I practice? A nap. Well, that's good too. Sometimes I nap when I meditate. Where do you draw the line? How do you stop from napping? The little meditation timer will go off when I'm up.

Oh, okay. Are you in a seated position like a classic Buddha with snails crawling in his head position? I sit in a chair. I've had a couple knee meniscus surgeries. So sitting in a lotus is not really – it doesn't really work for me. Not for you. No. Not for sweet Johnny.

Yeah. And I think the most important thing is to be comfortable and straight back. Right. If you have three shows on a Saturday, will you do it twice in a day? Yeah, even three times. But that's rare, usually twice. And have you always meditated in this particular space, in this attic garret that you now share with Liz? Yes.

Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's sponsor. When we come back, you'll hear more about Sweet Johnny at Work's mindfulness journey and why Liz has a problem with it. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join, and you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning, causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound.

Yep, that's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10-minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations, and delivered with conversation-based teaching. So you're ready to practice what you've learned in the real world, and you get to hear this sound. It's not just like a game that pretends to teach you a language. It's also not a rigid, weird, hyperacademic chore. It is an actually productive app that actually teaches you while you are actually having

a nice time. And you get to hear this sound. Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash Hodgman. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right?

Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with Made In pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made in, made in. The Rohan duck. Made in, made in. Riders of Rohan. Duck.

What about the Heritage Pork Shop? You got it. Made in, made in. Made in has been supplying top chefs and restaurants with high-end cookware for years. They make the stuff that chefs need. Their carbon steel cookware is the best of cast iron, the best of stainless clad. It gets super hot.

It's rugged enough for grills or an open flame. One of the most useful pans you can own. And like we said, good enough for real professional chefs, the best professional chefs. Oh, so I have to go all the way

down to the restaurant district in restaurant town? Just buy it online. This is professional-grade cookware that is available online directly to you, the consumer, at a very reasonable price. Yeah. If you want to take your cooking to the next level, remember what so many great dishes on menus all around the world have in common. They're made in, made in. Save up to 25% this Memorial Day from the 18th until the 27th. Visit madeincookware.com.

That's M-A-D-E-I-N cookware.com. You're listening to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Court is back in session. Let's get back into the courtroom for more transcendental irritation. Sweet Johnny, at work, tell me about your journey to mindfulness. You learned transcendental meditation. What drew you to meditation and what did transcendental meditation offer compared to whatever you were doing beforehand, if anything? meditation offer compared to whatever you were doing beforehand, if anything?

Well, I've always been interested in different religions and techniques and meditation. And I just, with Transcendental Meditation, it was the one that kept me doing it more often, more daily, because it's simple and effective. Well, are you doing some kind of wacky, complicated meditation before that one? Some of them, yes. I just don't know. I don't mean to be crude, but I don't know the different practices of meditation. So describe what you were doing before compared to what you're doing now. Well, some of just sitting quietly, following your breath, you know, some more general mindfulness.

Some like Gurdjieff techniques where you sense different parts of your body, where you move through and sense each toe and move your legs and your fingers and things like that. You know, that's a lot more complicated than just reciting a mantra. So, right, you don't want to have to count every toe every time. You want to just kind of zone out for a little bit. Kind of. And what does meditation do for you in your life, professional, personal, otherwise? What does it feel like to go into that state,

and how do you feel when you come out of it? There's a few different things that can happen. I mean, one is often is a deep rest. So I get a lot of rest and feel revived. And I do, like I said, sometimes fall asleep during it. But since I'm seated up, you know, I'll nod off, but I don't stay asleep. But just nodding off for a second, it kind of resets myself. And I find it really good when I'm working because then I'm sort of refreshed and feel like I have more positive energy to bring to the space and everything.

And feel like I have more positive energy to bring to the space and everything. And then there's more profound levels where you get to that. Finally. Yeah. Give it to me. Get to just a quiet place where you don't have thoughts. And if you go deeper, you don't even kind of have a sense of yourself. Those are more rare moments. And in the deeper stage,

you're going to have more profound insights and just more of a different relationship to life when you can get to those places. So you might get into some deep, profound insight. Is it something you could share with us an insight that you may have had about your life or the universe? If it's private or you can't think of anything, that's fine. Well, one thing that I can share is that often I'll go to a space that feels the same no matter what point in my life I i can reflect upon so i feel like you go to that space it's the same place that i was when i was eight years old the same place i will be when i'm 90

years old it's like a constant uh you're talking about an inner sort of yeah psychic space yeah Yeah, inner space. Psychic space. Yeah. Ooh. There's some deep stuff going on in this attic. Yeah. And how is this better exactly than simply scrolling maniacally through Twitter getting angry at the world with your free time? Do I have to answer that?

Is that self-obvious? Maybe the question answers itself. Maybe it was rhetorical. Maybe it was a kind of Buddhist koan that requires no answer, just contemplation. Now, when you go into these deep states, do you derive some insight about how to deal with anger points in your life, such as the intrusion of people named Liz into your meditation attic? For sure. Now, when you're in this deep state and Liz taps you on the shoulder and says, can you move your stuff? I've got more blue goop to store. Is that a problem for you?

I don't ever interrupt him. I don't interrupt his meditation because that's not, I don't interrupt his meditation because that's not – when they're in the deep zone, you can't just say, hey, wake up. You have to ease out of it. So I would never do that. But Liz, that's when you can hypnotize them and get them to do whatever you want. You can whisper in their ear and get them to rob a bank for you or something. I guess I haven't learned those techniques yet. Well, I'm just trying to get a clear sense. I mean, Liz, you have an issue with John doing this meditation

because you hate people finding inner peace or something. Definitely not. We're going to get to your problems in a minute. Okay. But John, they call you Sweet Johnny at work. You're a very sweet dude. You've obviously found some deep insight and you've been able to go to an eternal place within yourself. But at the same time, I noticed that meditation

has not exactly relieved you of some pretty high level passive aggression when you were talking about Liz stealing shelf space from you. How much of this dispute is two ways? Are you mad at Liz for interrupting? Does she interrupt your meditation, whether she means to or not? No, she doesn't interrupt because we have come to an agreement with how it works, which is that,

because I don't want to interrupt her work or make her uncomfortable. So what I do is if I plan to meditate, I'll seek her out. I'll find her, whether she's in the laundry room or wait until she comes back from walking her dog or something. And I'll say, you know. Now, are you physically going around the theater or are you sending your astral self around? I wish I could do that, but she probably wouldn't recognize me. Okay. Physically, yes. Physically, I have to use my body. It's frustrating, but I do find her. For me too. It has been since I've been nine. And I'll say, Liz, hey, I want to

meditate. Is this a good time? And she'll say either, oh, I was going to go up there and do something. Can you do it later? Or yes, it's okay. So she knows I'm up there. And then the worst would happen is if she forgot, maybe she needs to grab some costume or whatever, and she'll come up and grab it. Some blue makeup, some goop or something. And at that point, I'll just continue meditating

and she'll grab it and be on her way. Right. But you seem to be at some some form of peace with this arrangement. And you seem to have some agreement. So I'm not sure even why we're here, unless Liz, you want to break the agreement and make a new one. We have this, yeah, this compromise, but I kind of just don't want them to be there anymore at all. I want him to find somewhere else. Mostly because, you know, it's my workspace and I feel like I should be able to go there anytime I want to. It's your shared workspace. Well, it's a room that we share.

We don't share each other. I don't go into his workspace ever. Sure, you walk through it. I have to turn the light to turn on our room is on his desk. So I have to lean over and turn the light on. That's the only time I'm in his workspace. Have you thought about annexing that part of the workspace so that you never have to enter his workspace? I don't think we can. No.

We have to share where we walk through. We have to walk through it. It's a little bit of a tight squeeze. But, you know, it's like maybe he'll come up to me and I'll say, hey, can I go? I'm going to go sit down upstairs for a while. And I'll be like, okay. But then maybe something will come up, an unexpected thing will come up, and I'll just have to, you know, run have to run upstairs and use the sewing machine for a second or just grab something. And then I'll be like, oh, he's up there.

And then I'll have to wait. Well, is it the arrangement currently that if he is meditating, you have agreed not to go into the space at all? I personally just don't like to go up there while he's up there because, you know, it's dark and it's quiet. And usually what I'm going to do up there is going to be kind of like invasive and loud. So I just don't bother going up there when he's up there. John, do you turn the lights out when you meditate? I turn one of the lights out so it's not fully bright. All right.

If she were to come in while you were meditating to sew a blue bald wig together or whatever, would that ruin it for you? Well, what I've told her from the very beginning is if you need to work, just tell me and I'll stop. Like if you need to – if you have to do something, I'll stop. Just tell me and I'll stop. Like if you need to, if you have to do something, I'll stop. So if there was a point where she had to just tell, I would prefer she said, I really have to do this. I'm sorry. And I'll say, okay, you know, and I'll stop my meditation.

As long as she doesn't care about your happiness, it's fine for you. Well, that's the thing. I do care. And I guess I would never interrupt the meditation and process because I know that that can screw it up. So I don't even, even if I do have to go up there, I don't because I don't want to interrupt. I just wait it out. So that's, you know, that's kind of my, maybe that's my fault. But I don't know. I just don't want to bother him while he's up there. I understand that feeling. I grew up in a family with a father with severe post-traumatic stress disorder. And if you disrupted him reading the newspaper, he might yell. Not like yell out of anger, but yell out of PTSD terror. So I can understand the feeling of not wanting to tap someone on the shoulder while they're in a reverie. Yeah. And it's, you know, I respect Johnny. We're old

friends and, you know, we care about each other. So I'm not going to just do that. You know, I feel like I give him his thing. Is there an alternative space for him to go? Well, it's a big theater, but he has a sound console in the kind of side balcony where he, while the show's going on, that's where he works. And nobody goes there but him. I've explored and actually meditated in different areas in the theater. And this is definitely the best place and really the only only viable place um because otherwise i'd be using other people's spaces which and they're not as good and other places like in my sound console it's out in the open so people are coming by all the time cleaning crew and people are walking through. This space is kind of tucked

away in the corner. So, you know, I don't bother anyone beyond Liz. Well, beyond me and my and the other people that work in my department, they also cannot go up there while he's up there. Should it be a busy day, we're all there. Liz, you sent in some evidence, which are photos of the space that you and John while he's up there should it be a busy day and we're all there. Liz, you sent in some evidence, which are photos of the space that you and John share. And these are going to be available at the Instagram account called Judge John Hodgman if people want to take a look at them and also on the show page at MaximumFun.org. Let me just say that this meditation attic looks like dreadful squalor. It looks like a working theater space.

Got a lot of equipment, a lot of workspaces. Here you have one photo which shows Sweet Johnny at Work's workspace, which is lit up very brightly with fluorescent lights, which is what I want from a meditation pod for sure. And then you have some photos of your workspace, which is a lot of sewing equipment and tunics on racks and so forth. It's all a lot of delightful theatrical clutter. And then there's a picture of a cute little dog, which I always appreciate.

I always appreciate. And you got yourself in a little selfie here, too. I'm not sure if that was your plan. Oh, no, that wasn't. No, it wasn't intentional, but it was a good picture of my dog, Sherry. Is she a yappy little dog?

One who might wake up someone from the midst of meditation? No, she only yaps when it's time to go and she gets excited, but she's very quiet. She's older. She's real chill.

Oh, well, I have to say thank you for giving us a dog to post on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram page because we're going to get so many more hits now. You're very welcome. Anytime. Sweet Johnny, at work, you've been using this space for a long time, hiding in the rafters, and all of a sudden you have a new colleague who also has a dog. Were there any other difficulties in adjusting to this invasion of your space? Does the dog bother you?

other difficulties in adjusting to this invasion of your space? Does the dog bother you? The dog is rarely in the space upstairs when I'm meditating. She's only up there really when Liz is up there. But that does bring up a good point, is that Liz and I share a space. And a lot of the theater is shared space. We have a big green room, which we all share. And Liz brings her dog to work almost every day she's there. So we all accommodate Liz with her dog.

And Sherry's a cute dog, and we all like Sherry, but we still accommodate her. Sherry, but we do, we still accommodate her. You know, she's pretty well behaved, but occasionally she'll, you know, bring out her, you know, beef trachea treat into the green room. He hates that. I don't hate it. I just, you know, and you know, when she's getting ready for a walk, she'll yap, yap, yap.

Yeah. And you know, it's, so we accommodate. If I may interrupt, may I make sure that I heard those three words in order correctly? Beef trachea treat? Yep. Her trachea. She loves them. I've been to pet stores and I've seen all of the weird animal parts.

And this is a trigger warning for anyone who might be a vegan or just easily grossed out in this audience. But, you know, pig's ears, other parts of the animal. And I've wrestled with their strangeness and also my own feeling that they kind of look delicious. But I've never seen a beef trachea treat. Jesse, have you ever given Coco or Sissy a beef trachea treat? I have never had the opportunity to, but I'm sure they would appreciate it if I did. Sweet Johnny at at work does the beef trachea treat offend you because you are a vegetarian or vegan or because it's just gross or both no it it it doesn't offend me it's just it always reminds me that uh we are accommodating liz with her dog you know every day she works that you, I just would like the same accommodation with me because, you know, with the meditation, you know. Oh, I thought you meant that you'd like her to get you more tricks.

You probably would. Well, okay. I get that. I get that. Okay, I get that. I get that. But we, in general, I would say most of the people that I work with really appreciate having Sherry there. And I mean, when I walk in, people are like, Hey, Sherry. Oh, hi, Sherry. No one says hi to me. So everyone's excited to see Sherry. And we actually say it's, it's Sherry because people have a bad day. You get some Sherapy going and people feel better. So I feel like it's more of a service, if anything, by me having her there there for everybody. What did you say? Most people? Most people. So not everyone. I don't think everybody likes dogs.

OK. Clarence Darrow in the courtroom. Oh, believe me, I know that Johnny is not a big fan of my dog. No, I like Sherry. She sits on my lap sometimes. Yeah. But sometimes I go. We also, she has a wardrobe room down in the green room space. And I have some of my stuff in there, too.

So I have to go in there occasionally. And sometimes I'll go in and Sherry will nip at my ankles. She doesn't like the sound guys because they come in there occasionally. And sometimes I'll go in and Sherry will nip at my ankles. She doesn't like the sound guys because they come in there unannounced and she's like, who are you? Why aren't you hanging out with me? And then she's like, get out of here. And she bites their ankles. Everybody's biz is up in everybody's business.

Oh, yes. So before I go into my own meditation pod and take my helmet off and think this over in my chambers, Johnny, what will it mean to you if I find in Liz's favor and order you to no longer meditate in this space? Oh, well, it'd be pretty upsetting. It's a big part of my routine and my life. And then I would be, you know, hard-pressed to find another place and probably wouldn't be meditating as much. And frustrating at the same time because the space is often just empty.

So, you know, if no one's up there and then me not being able to use it would be frustrating. And how does that make you feel, Liz, when you hear it put that way? Oh, I mean, I definitely do agree with that. I'm not going to argue that. I think that that's very valid.

I guess I think it just comes down to that this is a workspace. It's not a meditation space. And I think that's what just comes down to that this is a workspace. It's not a meditation space. And I think that's what it comes down to. This is where I work. I've made a nice workspace. I had a nice custom table built for me. You know, I want to be able to use it whenever I can.

Do you ever check your phone at work, Liz? Yeah, I do. Yeah. You ever do Sudoku or something? Well, when I'm on break, sure. Uh-huh. When you're on break, where do you do it? Outside in the Sudoku zone? No, I do it down in my office in the wardrobe room. You have a shared office down there? No, it's basically the wardrobe room. It's next to the dressing rooms because we have to be close by. I think I've heard everything. In order to make my decision, I'm going to go into a trance in my chambers. And when I emerge, pure wisdom shall spout forth from my third eye. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman levitates out of the courtroom.

Liz, how are you feeling about your chances? I'm not feeling that great about them, but either way, it's okay. We have an arrangement, and it's okay. But, yeah, right now I'm not feeling super good about my chances. What about you, sweet Johnny? I feel okay. Still a little nervous that something so important could be taken away from me. Okay.

But mostly you're just trying to stay in the present and live the moment. Yeah. How'd you know? and live the moment. Yeah. How'd you know? Liz, have you ever considered the possibility that David Lynch might come to the Blue Man Group and he would ask where you do your meditating?

I've never thought of that. Do you think he would do that? He's a big TM guy. He is. Yeah, he's like the biggest. I had no idea. David Lynch Foundation. He would probably be disappointed if he knew that I was trying to put the kibosh on that.

He is cool. That's like his main thing, besides the TM and the filmmaking. Oprah. Oprah might come by. Oprah does it too. Man, can you imagine how disappointed in you David Lynch and Oprah would be? Very. They'd be like, wait, you eliminated the transcendental meditation area?

They would say. It's what enabled us to unlock our creative potential. Yeah. Well, I would feel very bad, and I'm starting to feel very bad right now. Hey, that's what the Judge Sean Hodgman shows all about. We'll be back in just a second to see what Judge Sean Hodgman has to say about all of this. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney.

I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I.

It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom. Before I give my verdict, I was studying the evidence in my chambers, and I just wanted to ask one quick question, Johnny, sweet Johnny, about your workspaces pictured in the first photo submitted by Liz. I see a desk space here, and then there seems to be some sort of duct above your desk

terminating in a black cone of some kind. Yes. Can you tell me what that is? It's an air vent because I do soldering up there, like fixing gear. Right. So it sucks up the fumes because there's like lead in the solder. Not good for you. Sure.

It probably helps your meditation though, right? Probably have a little lead. Um, cause you know, there's like lead in the solder and that good for you. Sure. It probably helps your meditation though, right? Probably have a little lead. You see some crazy stuff, don't you? Some Dr. Strange style. I don't know what you're talking about. That's right. I'm sure you don't.

So I'm going to tell two very quick anecdotes that might shed some light on the decision that I'm about to render unto you. One is that when I was in high school, my first experience with the theater, I was a pirate in Pirates of Penzance. Not even a featured pirate, pure chorus pirate. Boy, that was an exciting time for many reasons. The camaraderie of being on stage, the camaraderie of being on stage, the camaraderie of being backstage.

And then one time I was getting changed in a dressing room and I was maybe a freshman or a sophomore and a senior girl came in and she said, I'm going to get changed in here. And I'm like, oh, I'll leave. She said, you don't have to just don't turn around. And so it happened that a beautiful older woman got undressed behind me in full confidence that i would not turn around and of course this was exciting and terrifying to me but also an incredible gesture of faith and i of course did not turn around because i'm a good boy and that's when i learned that in the, everyone's business is up in everyone else's business all the time. That is the delight of the theater world, both on stage and behind stage. It is a massive ramshackle, constant crisis that is being solved at the last second. And it is no wonder that your shared attic space is such a delightful mess, because that's what the theater is.

I don't think people work in it because they are drawn to orderly workspaces. I'll tell you another quick little story. A long time ago, more recently than high school, I was on a social platform called twitter.com. And I discovered that I was one of 41 people who was followed by David Lynch. David Lynch was following me, only 40 other people and me. And that was exciting to me. And then one day, I think probably because I endorsed Hillary Clinton, but I'm not sure, David Lynch unfollowed me and has never followed me again. Oh, Liz, you don't want to do something to piss off David Lynch.

It is the saddest state of affairs to be unfollowed by David Lynch, actually, or even figuratively. I think you can tell where I'm going with these two anecdotes and what they will amount to. Sweet Johnny. Oh, sweet, sweet Johnny at work. Not only has seniority in this space, not only had been enjoying the complete utter privacy of his lonely attic four years before you came in there and disrupted his life, but also makes meditation an important part of his daily life

and with good reason. Because for a guy who, for a guy who, you could hear it in his voice, you know, he was not bending like a reed in the wind. He was basically saying, your dog's a jerk.

For a guy who's meditating six days a week, he's already at the boiling point. He needs this. Who knows what kind of monster he would become if he were up there soldering all the time. Now, Liz, you make a good point that this is a workplace. That's for sure. But this is in all workplaces. We make accommodations, obviously, for the people with whom we work in close quarters. And you would be not surprised, I think, to hear all of the letters I get from people talking about cubicle etiquette.

And in most of those, I will say, yeah, leave your own snot in your own cubicle, figuratively and literally. Keep reading the New York Times Magazine. You'll see that one soon. But in this space, in the world of the theater, it attracts weirdos. And I say that with great affection. You know, you can't, you do stuff in a theatrical workspace you can't do like in regular work, such as close your eyes for a while. Take a little nap. Go hide in the rafters. Put on a mask.

Try to drop a chandelier on someone. That's all acceptable. Bring your dog to work. Play the music of the night. And it seems to me that you have a fairly workable arrangement here. And it seems to me that you have a fairly workable arrangement here. And I'm sure and I trust that if Johnny, sweet Johnny at work, could find a place where he could get away from you and your nipping dog that worked just as well for his TM, he would do it.

But out of respect for seniority, because you invaded his space, because you share his space and you have brought a dog into his space. And now that space is shared. You have to let him do his thing in order to be productive in the whole human being that needs to be. So I had really thought I was going to go for you with you on this one, Liz. So I had really thought I was going to go with you on this one, Liz. But sweet Johnny used some kind of weird combination of lead fumes and hypnosis on me and made me swing around to him. is that now that I know there is existing duct work, I would suggest perhaps building a soundproof booth with ventilation in this space so that you can go and sit in the dark in peace and your friend and coworker, Liz,

and our little dog, too, can come in and sew their little hearts out while you're in your booth. Something like the booth over there at Maximum Fun Headquarters, right, Jesse? That's a comfortable space to be in when you're allowed to have the air on, right? John, I literally, particularly when I was taking migraine medication that made me very sleepy in the middle of the day, will take the pillow from my couch and grab a sleep mask from my desk drawer and go into the studio, lie on the floor, and take a nap with my colleague Bikram Chatterjee working, let's say, 45 inches away from me.

45 inches away from me. Yep. And there you go. And if you have to take a little room back from Liz to build this, then I authorize that because that's going to make everyone happy, which is rarely the point of this podcast. But in this case, I do want you both to be happy. But absent that, and I don't want to hear why that's impossible because I want to believe that there's hope in this world.

Absent that, I find in favor of sweet Johnny at work. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Johnny, how do you feel in your moment of triumph? I feel good. I'm glad we're basically staying where we're at.

I can continue meditating. And I'm going to talk to the carpentry department about building one of those big Darth Vader meditation chambers. It's probably going to take up half of Liz's space, but I think it could be a win-win situation. Yeah, I mean, that would only make the whole place like 55-45 in your favor, right? Liz, how are you feeling? I'm fine with it. It's, you know what, we've been doing it this way for a while, and I'm happy to keep him meditating and doing his thing,

so it's okay. You're a woman of the theater. You probably have a lot of practical skills. You ready to pick up a hammer and help build this isolation chamber? I'm all for it. I'll probably do a really horrible job because I'm a terrible carpenter, but I'll help if I can. Well, Liz, Johnny, I wish you the best of luck, and I hope that David Lynch comes to see you soon. Me too. Great.

Thank you. Another thrilling Judge John Hodgman case in the books. Before we dispense some swift justice, we want to thank Regan Blanchard for naming this week's episode Transcendental Irritation. If you'd like to name a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. That's where we put out the calls for submissions. And even if you don't have a heart full of puns, you can always enjoy the puns that others have contributed.

You can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets. Hashtag JJHO. If you want to talk about the show, a good place to do it is the Maximum Fun subreddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com

or on Facebook in the Maximum Fund group. This week's episode recorded by Shelley Steffens at Chicago Public Media. Our producer, the one, the only Jennifer Marmer. Now let's get to swift justice where we answer your small disputes with a quick judgment. Gunner says, my wife constantly tells me to dress warmer as it makes her feel cold to look at me. I'm never cold and hardly ever sick. Will I catch a cold if I'm dressed too lightly? P.S. We live in Iceland. So for once and for all, cold temperature does not cause sickness. Colds are not caused by cold. Colds are caused by going to an outdoor hot tub in Northampton, Massachusetts on New Year's Eve when it's 25

degrees out. And then I get horribly sick. but that's not because of the cold temperature. That's probably because there are a bunch of other people's stuff in that hot tub. And I got sick that way. Also, my body is not designed to ever be nude. I made a lot of mistakes, but even if cold temperature caused colds and it doesn't, uh, that does not mean that Gunnar should dress up simply because his wife tells him to, because it's not the point that she's not even making the point that he'll get sick. She's making the point that seeing him underdressed makes her feel cold. And that's not fair. Gunnar should be able to dress the way within reason and within his own safety,

the way he wants to dress. And that's just the way it is. And by the way, say hi to James in that greenhouse in the middle of Iceland, Gunnar, because I know you all know each other there. That's about it for this week's episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. That's MaximumFun.org slash JJHO. Or just email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. No case is too small.

We love them all. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. MaximumFun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.