Judge John Hodgman - Trash Can Detective

Episode Date: July 1, 2020

It's time to clear the docket! Guest Bailiff Tre'vell Anderson from FANTI joins the judge to discuss tickling, flatulence, dog walk conversation, stolen trash cans, loud neighbors, and strange apartment floor plans. Plus a letter from a listener about pies!Make sure to catch Tre'vell and their co-host Jarrett Hill every week on the podcast FANTI! Here is their Esquire piece on Pride, "Pride Has Always Been a Protest Against An Unjust System," that was discussed in the episode.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest bailiff Travelle Anderson filling in for Jesse. We are in chambers this week to clear the docket. How is life going for you, Judge? Well, you know, we started doing this thing where we can see each other. You've been a guest on the show before. We did a docket clearing with bailiff Jesse Thorne. Yes.

If you don't know know and you really should trevelle is the co-host with jared hill of the fanti podcast on the maximum fun network which is a great conversation i mean it started all the way back on the 6th of february oh yes right and it started as basically a fun pop culture fueled podcast of you and Jarrett talking about problematic faves. Very much so. Yeah. Things in culture that you like. But I mean, first episode, of course, being Kevin Hart. Yes. Well, it was it was about the whole podcast, right, is about having our tagline is having these complex and complicated conversations about the gray areas in our lives. The people you love, but also have anti-feelings toward. Right.

You are a fan of and anti. There we go. And that's the reason the show is called Fonty. Fonty, yes. You did one on why white people love Wakanda, which cut a little bit close to the bone i'll tell you and um you know so you've been leading complicated and hard conversations for a long time and now that has naturally intersected with this moment of profound protest and reckoning with systemic

anti-blackness yes and injustice and i just have to say you know last couple of episodes that i listened to the conversations were really bracing and inspiring and smart and funny i like all those words and you know like everyone the deal is like you gotta have these conversations but it's so hard and it's so emotional i even for me, a guy who has benefited from 400 years of systematic racism, that the goal is to keep the conversation going so people don't turn it off and keep the pressure on this moment so that some real structural change happens instead of just some window dressing and we all go home. That's what we're hoping for, right? I think the way that you have been addressing and leading those conversations over at fanti that's how i actually pronounce the podcast i know how it's pronounced

just so great so i really urge judge john hodgman listeners if they are not already subscribing to fanti do do it don't don't do it do do do it today is july the first rabbit rabbit of course, June was Pride Month. Travelle, how was your Pride Month? It's a weird one. It was a very weird one, a different one, but also one that was very much the same. You know, we saw all of the protests and the unrest happening and, you know, pride at its at its inception was a protest. And so for me, it wasn't that much different. I think we were able to see a lot more conversations being had within the LGBTQ community that took into account intersectionality and took into account how it was, you know, black and brown, queer and trans folks who got this stuff started in the first place. Yeah. folks who got this stuff started in the first place. Yeah. So for me, it's been really great to see people coming to that realization who might not have known that information prior.

Now, look, I don't mean to be a know-it-all, but I know all about that history of pride and its roots in actual direct action protests. And you know why I know? Because I read your piece. Oh. I read your piece about it in Esquire magazine yes you know been doing some writing about the moment as well um and so it's I can't I can't hate what pride month has been like we also got some great news recently from the Supreme Court as it relates to LGBTQ people not being able to be fired for just being LGBTQ. And it affirms a whole bunch of other rights for LGBTQ people just like moving through

the world. And so I think that was a really great moment to happen during Pride Month, during these conversations we're having about social unrest and accountability. It's been it's been OK. It's been OK. It's been a lot of downs. Yes, but some ups, a couple ups. It's been a lot of downs. Yes. But some ups.

A couple ups. But some ups. And some mediums. Very much so. You don't get big ups without some real downs. That's what they tell me. That is what they tell me. If we just kept it at medium all the time, I mean, that was part of the problem.

Very much so. And, you know, there is, I do want to be clear to say there's still much more work to be done. Yes, there's still so much more to be to be won and to be fought for. But it's good to celebrate the wins when we get them. Yeah. Well, this, as you know, is a podcast about wins. I'll be honest with you. It's a hard time to do a podcast that is based on the criminal justice system hosted by a white man pretending to be a judge a little complicated little complicated little fanti for my you know what i mean life is complicated hey that's right but what we do here is we we hear disputes it is not criminal. It is more is more court of the human heart and some small claims thrown in. And we have disputes and and someone will win and someone will lose in each

dispute. And you're going to help me clear the docket today. Travelle, thank you for doing it. Let's get into it. Let's get into it. First up, we have something from Andrea or Andrea, you know, depending on where she's from. Yeah. Fanti or Fanti. She says, I don't like being tickled, but my husband Shane refuses to listen to me about this. Over the 11 years that we've been together, we've had countless conversations about this issue. But he has yet to stop. He thinks that tickling is fun, even if I don't enjoy it. What's more, he'll use tickling

as a threat. For example, he'll say, if you don't move, I'll tickle you. I would appreciate an order that he stop tickling me. Let me just say, first of all, Super Producer Jennifer Marmer, you know what name I'm a fan of?

No. Shane. Oh,? No. Shane. Oh, me too. Yeah. Really like that name. I know some good Shanes. I do as well. Yeah.

Is Shane a good Shane or a bad Shane for tickling without consent? Okay. I think the obvious is that you should always have consent of your partner for whatever activity is taking place. That's what my that's what I think my gut is saying. However, I have some questions, please. And one of my questions is maybe Shane has a thing for tickling. Yes. Oh, yes.

One of those things. Yes. And so I wonder if it's you know, there's a really great, weird documentary called Tickled that came out a couple years ago. And I just wonder if, you know, Shane might be, you know, a perfect candidate for that documentary. And therefore there's something more to him being interested in tickling Andrea than just, you know, making her mad or making her upset, you know? Now, I did not see that documentary. I hear it takes a strange turn. Have you seen it? Yes, I have.

It does take a very peculiar turn. Yeah, okay. Which makes me think of it and bring it up in this moment because, you know, some people really like tickling. Yeah. So you're saying that Shane is perhaps expressing a kink. Yes. That for Shane has no name as yet.

Shane does not know or feel comfortable enough to say to Andrea or Andrea. Maybe he doesn't even know how to pronounce her name. Maybe that's the level of their communication is so bad. You would hope it was better 11 years in, but you never know. Maybe Shane is wanting to say like this. I really, this makes me, I'm just going to say this because we have a lot of precocious, weird 13 year olds who listen. So you know what I'm talking about when I'm talking about sex i also read about it once this is this may be a sexy thing for shane it might be it might be i that that's the immediate

thought that i have when i read this read this question this statement so i think we're in agreement the chain needs to shane needs consent yes to do things to another person's body yes and it's pretty clear that andrea or andrea is not into this currently at all if it's the case the chain is listening to this podcast and he's like yeah you know what i really do i get it now i I just, I, this makes me excited in a special way. I would like to enjoy this with my partner. I don't want to violate her space. So I'm going to talk to her about it. And I'm going to say, first of all, wife, would you remind me how you pronounce your name and get that right finally.

you pronounce your name and get that right finally and then i'm gonna say this this kind of makes me feel special and excited can i do it anyway does that change the equation well no because she's made it clear that she don't like it right right and so maybe this is an opportunity for them to have a conversation about a way for him to, you know, if this is something that he really enjoys, a way for, I don't know, I'm sure there are other toys or other apparatuses that might be available to help, you know, allow him to carry out his feelings. The Judge John Hodgman show should go to eBay and and buy a 25 year old tickle me elmo and send it to this guy look jennifer marmer do we have it in the budget i think we can find some room for it yeah that's just think of us whenever max fun con happens i see what you're saying

because i think that is unlikely that it is possible. I do not know Andrea's mind. That's the whole point of this. Is that people in a relationship, a loving relationship, need to communicate. They need to be straightforward. They need to have uncomfortable conversations. Yes. I would think unlikely if I were Andrea and Shane said to me, I want to tickle you because it makes me feel good. That I'd be like, oh, that changes everything. Go for it.

You're my armpits. I love you and I want you to be happy. Could happen that way. Maybe. But you'll never know unless you have that conversation and it might open up, as, you know, Travelle, you say, an avenue towards more conversations about way to get out one's healthy, fun, special, intimate things. Could be. My wife and I have a son, 14 years old. And you know what you do with kids is you tickle them from time to time.

And then I had to have a hard think about that. You know, because they're human beings. I used to hate being tickled. But it's fun to tickle little kids. Yes. They seem to enjoy it. I almost went over and tickled my 14-year-old son today while he was playing Apex Legends or whatever. He's been doing his computer schoolwork, but otherwise he's just in his PlayStation world.

I reached down. I was just going to shove my fingers under his armpit. I just wanted to tickle that guy again. I was like, this is a, he is as tall as I am. And by the way, he's 14. I don't want to be anywhere near his armpit. You know what I mean? But also he, he is and has always been a whole human being.

Who deserves the right to not be tickled if they don't feel like it so i'm not saying parents never tickle your kids but i think it starts even earlier than before than marriage i mean i don't think you tickle you tickle it's obviously it's a form of intimacy right but i mean you know read the room it's not your right to tickle anyone in your in your world have a conversation about it all right trevellvelle, what's next? What's next? All right. We have Johan says, one of my best friends,

let's call him Ragnarok, claims he has never farted in his life. All of us in the freighted group have never heard him fart. Surely a quality to envy. We have all smelled it and said nothing. It's the Nordic non-confrontational silent way. My evidence in this case is twofold.

One, I googled search. I googled, is it possible to not fart? And it led to undisputed results in my favor. And two, Ragnarok's mother confirmed her son's natural flatulence. My requests may arise from envy, but nevertheless, I seek justice for claims against the laws of nature, Thank you for reading my case. Thank you, Travelle, for reading Johan's case. Out loud. Out loud. Never said farted that much in my life.

Loud. Never said farted that much in my life. Ragnarok, by the way, Travelle, I believe, is Johan's attempt to bribe this court by secretly buzz marketing my 2012 Netflix stand up special called Ragnarok, which then got ditched off of Netflix and is not not available anywhere in the world except and I would imagine 50 or so deluxe DVD sets that are moldering on a pallet in East Hampton Massachusetts in the Topatico warehouse there you can buy them the special sets if you still have a DVD player that's how you can see my thing and the Ragnarok comes with, the special set comes not only with the DVD, but also a Hodgman branded non-gendered cologne, a scent, and as well, a jar of custom blended mayonnaise that now is just poison. Don't open it.

That's just a little plug. Go to the MaxFun store or Topatico.com and check me out does fanta have merch by the way we don't not yet yeah so stay tuned don't lurch get merch don't lurch get merch there we go but everyone was like i saw that netflix took it off and people were saying why did they take it off and i was like i had no idea and then and then a theory developed it's like well they took it ragnarok off because they had released the thor ragnarok movie i was going to suggest that yes yeah and i let people believe that for a long period of time i really wanted to believe that you know phine Phineas Netflix, the CEO of Netflix was there like,

this really pains me. I want to preserve John Hodgman's work for the ages and it costs us literally nothing to not press the button to delete it. It could be there. It's like we have unlimited resources, but we have, my hands are tied. marvel studios is telling me i have to cancel john hodgman's ragnarok that's hilarious and then obviously it was not true because disney plus came in and grabbed up all that marvel property off of netflix and they did not call me up going at last john ragnarok is available now no netflix will never have it on again netflix if you're listening i don't want you i don't want you to put it back on. Oh.

Anyway. That's called reverse psychology. I see what you're doing there. Anyway, that was all my plug. I just wanted to explain. I really wanted to thank everyone on Twitter and the rest of the world who came up with that fantasy that my special wasn't on Netflix anymore because Marvel even knows who I am. They were trying to silence you.

Yeah, that was a very self-protective fantasy that I needed for a while. But you know, this is a time to cast off self-protective fantasies and see the real truth. Yes. Anyway, Trevelle, what do you think about Johan's fight with his friend Ragnarok? You know, I think that we know that everyone, you know, has flatulence.

It's just natural. I think that it is interesting, though, because no one wants to, no one wants anyone to know that they have flatulence when they are flatulating. I think that's the right conjugation of that word. And so I don't know if I blame Ragnarok for denying. Mm-hmm. You know, because, you know, you don't want people to know that it smells like somebody, you know, or something crawled up inside of you and died when it came out. Right.

You know, that's not comforting. That's not friendship. You know, an allyship. Yeah. And so I think it's one of those just like open secrets. We all know that everyone farts, but like no one actually talks about it. Yeah. If someone farts in the room, the polite thing to do is be like, quietly agree.

We all do this from time to time. Let's not pick on the person. Exactly. We are no longer in fifth grade or whatever. Exactly. He, she, they, who dealt it? What is it? He dealt it, smelt it?

Smelt it, dealt it. If you smelt it, you dealt it. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Here's my feeling about that. Who cares who smelt it? Who cares who dealt it? We've got bigger things, right. Yeah. Yeah. Here's my feeling about that. Who cares who smelt it? Who cares who dealt it?

We've got bigger things to do. Yes. Open the window. That's right. Get your priorities straight, you know? Ragnarok, however, is making a ludicrous claim that he has never farted in his life. Yes. And I've only ever met one other person who made that claim.

And that person made that claim to me. And that person is my wife with the first year of our dating. And I would say that I believed her for 10 years before she finally said, no, I was just joking. I believe that there could be a human who could not fart and that person was my wife and then i learned a decade later you're dumb john of course everyone farts that's what i learned ragnarok that's what i learned johan i think that it's fine to deny farting i think that it's fine to to not bring it up to sin to lie by omission by not saying every time you farted that was me that was me you don't have to do that but when i asked directly did you fart i think a principle of human interaction should be to tell the truth as

much as possible yes or at least not lie right i And definitely never farted in his life is a lie. Very much so. Ragnarok, this is what it comes down to. Everyone's a farter. Don't be a liar. You have choice over one and you don't have choice over the other. I'll let you figure it out.

I love that. Well, let's take a quick break. More items on the docket coming up in just a minute on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right?

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Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash Hodgman spelled B-A-B-B-E-L dot com slash Hodgman. Rules and restrictions apply. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm guest Bailiff Travelle Anderson filling in for Jesse this week. We are clearing the docket. Next case we have is from Allison. She says, Derek and I are former partners and co-owners of two dogs. Oh, sitcom.

During our dog walks together, Derek frequently rants and complains about pointless things that he can't control. I'd like you to order Derek to be more considerate of my experience during our walks and limit his complaining. I am terminally ill, but still well enough to walk through nature with my friend and dogs. I would like to spend this time having pleasant conversations or enjoying the sounds of nature. I think it's unfair that Derek hijacks the air so frequently and I want him to tone it down. Wow. Well, that is not a sitcom, Allison. That is an incredibly hard human drama. I'm so, so sorry to hear that news. And as someone, and I think many people have,

who have lived and supported terminally ill people in the past, it's an extremely hard experience. And I really am grateful that you are handling it well enough to bring Derek before this case to do me the honor of telling him to shut the F up. Yes. Woo. Yes. What else is there to say, Trevelle? There isn't really much to say. And I do want to be clear that I think this this goes beyond even Allison being terminally ill. Of course.

And it goes just into like friendships and relationships and communication. And you can't take up all the air. You can't throw your problems on other people for them to shoulder without also being willing to have them throw their problems on you. You've got to share the space. You've got to share the space. You've got to share the air. And it's compounded because she is terminally ill. You really need to shut your mouth and allow Allison to be able to enjoy

the things that give her joy. Yeah. I mean, Derek, you shouldn't have to wait until your friend is dying to shut up for once and listen exactly you know because i mean not to be blunt but our friends will not always be there and when you're there with them you want to share that time with them people think they're immortal and you know there are no silver linings to what's been going on over the past two months but i think this one's for the kids to kids, you're going to die. We all are. It's an idea to people and only an idea to people until they go through a it's necessary for our humanity to grab that idea and

look at it every once in a while and realize i don't know what happens after this but i know that this is limited yes and you know you can't treat your time and other people's time like time is endless that's the most nice way i can can put what Derek is doing is just a little bone-headedness. Doesn't get it. Doesn't get it. Maybe doesn't. And you know what? To be fair to Derek, probably doesn't want to get it. Probably doesn't want to stop talking because he knows that if he stops talking, he's going to be contemplating silence that is going to come. But we've got to get comfortable with the silence and the thoughts that come in said silence, right? Yeah, yeah, that's right.

As much as I'm doing it right now, you can't avoid your problems by filling up silence with a lot of talk. So be there for your former partner and your current dog co-parent. Yes. Tarek, and I know that you're hurting but making things feel like they always do and obviously in your relationship with with alice and derrick the tradition is that you just complain and moan all the time and you want to

you want to cling to that normalcy but we don't get to go back to normal. All we can do is build a new and better normal. And that means being aware of what's going on. But I feel for, I really truly feel for both of you and Alison, thank you for being a listener. You know, when people are going through hard times,

it is my hope that this podcast can be a distraction. And I hope that this is a happy distraction for you. And I hope that you enjoy this win. Enjoy it so much, Allison, because I am really, really judging in your favor. Lovely. All right. So we next up, we have something from Kira and she says, this is not necessarily a case as there is not really a second party. However, the tale is such. A few months ago, my trash can was stolen from my sidewalk. I reported it and was delivered a new trash can.

Last Friday, my old trash can was out at the curb. I added the new one. The trash was picked up. Is this a story or a logic puzzle? A little bit of both, maybe. Three trash cans were on the sidewalk. Red, white, and green. Two were flying at 15 miles per hour. One could never tell a lie.

The other was a vampire and could only lie. What continent am I on? Antarctica. Yeah. What? Okay. So I added the new one. The trash is picked up.

And then I took both trash cans back to my house. Two days later, I realized that someone had come around and taken one of the trash cans from the side of my house. What should I do? I'm sure I could find the trash can at someone else's place, but I suspect it would just be stolen right back. But it doesn't seem fair that they're not paying for trash pickup by using my trash can. Okay. Should Kira become trash can detective and find her trash can?

We'll figure it out. Travell, first of all, you live in Los Angeles, correct? I do, yes. Did I hear, and I don't want to triangulate where you live, but I think you mentioned on Fanti. Yes. You live on Fountain in Los Angeles. I probably did mention that. Yes, I live on Fountain in Los Angeles. I probably did mention that. Yes, I live on Fountain in Los Angeles in the middle of Hollywood.

Fountain's one of the best avenues. That's all I'm saying. It's a great one. I love Fountain. Thank you. What's trash collection like on Fountain? So I live in an apartment complex. And so we have like a dumpster type situation.

And so we have like a dumpster type situation. However, what it seems like Kira is saying is that she pays for trash collection and they provide an actual, what do you call it, a trash can in exchange for the payment. Got it. And someone stole hers because I guess by the very nature of having a trash can, it means that you're paying for trash collection. And so the person, because now they have a trash can, doesn't have to pay, which I want to just say seems a very kind of ingenuitive, innovative approach to, you know, circumventing some of these systems at play. It's a crime of opportunity. You know, I'm just like, if someone who is paying for trash collection can just call up and say, hey, don't know where my trash can is. Can you bring me another one? Why would I not be interested in circumventing the system in that way?

I'm not advocating for it. I'm just saying. No, of course. Right. Simply having the trash can, therefore, is physical proof that you have paid for trash collection. So the thief took the trash can

and got some free trash collection, but then brought it back. And then he brought it, because I wonder if they were like, you know what? What if it's a thief with a heart? And they were like, you know what? I don't want to prevent you from being able to take out your trash all the time so what

if their idea was like we'll just share it you know yeah i'll do it one week you do your trash the next week and we can just flip flop like that yeah to me it feels like this is either a misunderstanding yeah once again due to lack of good human communication. Mm-hmm. Or it's a kink. You know? I mean, I don't know anything about the thief. They just love messing with Kira's mind.

Maybe that is what it is. Grab that can. Steal it for a little while while bring it back in the middle of the night with a rose on top actually i'm gonna challenge you what if this is somebody's ruse to get kira to come looking for the trash can and then they fall madly in love when they find out who's been taking the trash can right but guess what trash cam thief life is not a movie you sure well i believe we're in a simulation i'm definitely on that okay definitely feeling that but life is not a rom-com true where stealing someone's stuff and returning it and manipulating a way

to run into the other person results in a beautiful romance trevelle you have imagined the best possible the most sympathetic explanation yes is that kira has a stalker who's using the trash cans, the trash can play to provoke some kind of meet cute. But even that's no good because in the real world, people don't like people don't like to be manipulated into meeting you. Have mutual respect. Have conversation. Yes. Whether you're a neighbor who has a crush on Kira or whether you're kira and you just don't know what's going on leave a note on the trash can say please don't steal this i don't know why

you're doing this that's a good idea you know like i know that this is happening and i don't want it to happen please don't and i would suggest if it's i don't know what community that you live in that has this weird pay for trash collection system but if it's allowed kira you should you know label your trash cans with your address spray paint i don't know how you would do it stencil yeah people don't do enough stenciling this is a great opportunity to stencil get a custom stencil of your address and spray paint your trash cans and let garbage collection know that someone is swiping trash cans in your block and let them send out the professional trash can detective you don't have to be an amateur sleuth we've had trash cans disputes on this uh podcast before and the answer as always is if you don't

know what's going on with your neighbors, try talking to them. Yeah. Very simple. Just talk to them. Yeah. Get yourself a night vision camera, put it up in front of your house, monitor the trash cans, catch the person in the act,

confront them, fall in love, have children. Voila. Let's take. Have children. Voila. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we'll hear a case about noisy neighbors. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory.

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try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. We are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. This week we are clearing the docket. Here's something from Sarah.

Travelle, I just want to warn you and the listeners that I have previewed this case and it is an astonishing journey. Oh, I'm excited. There's a lot of spatial questions about where things are arranged and how this living situation can possibly be. And then there is a deep, I think, an underlying moral crux to it that we're going to unpack this is a content warning for you treville incredible journey coming up okay i'm preparing myself woosa woosa woosa okay i'm ready i may have oversold it but let's see okay so sarah says

this dispute is between my boyfriend bart and me over my handling of a situation with my landlord. Our apartments are connected through the building's laundry room, which is also the entrance to my apartment. We are in a small building with one washer and dryer. The landlord cleans this room two to three times a week for about two to four hours. That's extensive, okay. It's a lot. But it's clean, hey. Yeah, but also their apartments are connected by the laundry room?

Yes. Now you live in an apartment complex on Fountain Avenue in Hollywood, Los Angeles, California, correct? I do, yes. Do you have a laundry room? We do have a laundry room. No one's apartment door is inside. How many apartments lead off of that laundry room? Zero. Because that's normal. So this is weird. Look, I don't nothing is normal. This is unusual. Let's say that. Very much so. As my door is basically cardboard, when she does this, it's like she's almost in my living room. During quarantine, this has become a regular nightmare for my introvert itself.

She refused to reduce cleaning time or frequency when I asked. Judge, how sassy should I get? I say very. Bart says no. So, Travelle, I asked Sarah for an example of her proposed sassiness. Some of the things that she was thinking to do to express her displeasure to the landlord. Here they

are. One. I'm quoting her. I'm thinking that after a half hour or an hour of her being outside my apartment, I should start playing loud audio from my living room, such as It's a Small World on a Loop or episodes of sex in the city or YouTube playlists of the vagina monologues or Backstreet Boys or MSNBC or loud personal phone calls. Essentially, this is sonic warfare she's proposing. I think my landlord would not want to stick around to hear it.

landlord would not want to stick around to hear it. Travelle, what do you feel about this escalation policy? Well, you know, so one thing that's important to note is that Sarah apparently has spoken to the landlord already once before about this. Communication has happened. Yes, it has happened. And the landlord has said, OK, girl, who cares? I got to keep this laundry room clean. Two to four hours of cleaning twice a week. Which makes very little sense to me because the laundry room at my apartment gets cleaned by a service that cleans the common areas in the apartment complex twice a week. I have never seen it take even an hour for them to clean our laundry room yeah and we have two washers and two dryers right so i'm confused maybe this is a very large laundry room but even so you know sarah has said that her door is cardboard i think that's hyperbole i hope so what i'm picturing is that this is you know she and her boyfriend are living in the basement apartments of this building I hope so. is these apartments off the laundry room. And therefore, I think that it's reasonable to imagine

that the laundry room itself has not got a lot of beautiful wood paneling that requires special dusting, applications of lemon pledge, probably doesn't have hardwood floors that need to be mopped and have special treatments, probably doesn't have shag carpeting on the walls or the ceiling. It's probably a pretty rudimentary space. Yes. So I don't know what the landlord is doing down there for two to four hours twice a week.

Maybe she's doing what we're all doing, which is like hiding from the world. You know what I mean? Maybe she's listening to podcasts. Maybe, maybe, maybe she's listening to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. While I appreciate that, particularly during these times of economic crisis, landlords are not always the good guys, and they do not feel like they are to a lot of people who are being asked to pay full rent, especially from real estate companies with large holdings who can absorb a hit from

time to time yes but you know ultimately it's like this why should i rule against her house her rules in this case you know you know but the quiet so but he's taking care of that taking care that laundry room so much i just i my thoughts is I don't know if these even proposed forms of sassiness would be effective. That's my thought. The idea is that, you know, Sarah wants to just play things very loudly that will hopefully drive the landlord to shorten, you know, the cleaning time. But I'm not sure that that's going to be as effective as Sarah thinks it's going to be. Well, reason one being that she's punishing herself, too. Exactly.

Reason two being its escalation. And escalation, as we have seen in the streets of the United States, tends to not resolve conflict. Yes. But lead to worse and worse outcomes. Very much so. I wonder if that's a possible solution. You know, Sarah says that she spoke to the landlord. Perhaps Bart, the boyfriend, should try speaking to the landlord.

Maybe that is another form of communication that can take place before this escalation. Maybe for whatever reason, Sarah just couldn't get through to the landlord and Bart might be able to. Well, we know one thing for sure because Sarah professes it herself. She's sassy. Yes.

She's got sassiness on reserve. She's got sassiness ready to deploy. She's got sassyiness ready to deploy. She's got sassy schemes ready to go. I wonder if she look, I don't know what the nature of their communication was. But if she sassed the landlord

you know what I mean? When she was talking to the landlord. If she approached in an entitled sassy way as opposed to a hey i'm a human being too kind of way maybe that was its own sort of form of escalation yeah you know what i mean and there may be um cultural and language barriers in play here we don't know we don't know and i don't necessarily presume, but there might be other reasons that the initial communication was rejected. Yeah. So are we suggesting that she just tries again?

I would suggest she examine. I mean, I'm making no presumptions over her initial communication. I mean, I'm making no presumptions over her initial communication. I'm inviting her to review it and maybe talk about it with Bart and some of her other friends and see if like see if they have some feedback for her. Yeah. And when you are when you are reviewing your own behavior and, you know, stress testing it with your friends. The important thing is to not be defensive. Like if they say, yeah, that was wrong or you're out of line, don't be like, and then just start playing. Just start playing. It's a small world on a loop loud in their face. That's my reactionary criticism. Nope, not hearing it.

It's a small world after all just hold up my phone in their face by the way disney please don't sue this podcast out of existence you already took away ragnarok for me please don't take my podcast away yeah so sarah i would talk to some people and really think about how how you communicated with your landlord and see if there might be another way to re-approach. And deal with this phase in your life, this phase in your life where you live in a basement and next to a laundry room. It must be really convenient to do the laundry, though, right? Very much so. Well, yeah, I guess.

Yeah. You don't have to walk down the street to go to the laundromat. You don't even have to put on pants, really. You know, just take a step, a big step outside of your door and drop the things in the washing machine and dryer. That, yeah. She could probably just throw the laundry out of the door into the washer if it's a top loader. Yes. And I bet, you know what? I bet if she wanted to make a little game of it, she could probably get really good at tossing the quarters into the slots from her from her door you know anyway you live

sassy sarah you you know this is a phase in your life you will not always live in this apartment and um and someday you will tell the story about how you could throw quarters in a slot and do your laundry and they and they and it was the cleanest laundry room of all time and no one will believe you they'll be like you two apartments went into one laundry room that was the entryway to the people will not know you'll have a fun time telling the story at minimum but if you if you start you start blasting music and escalating it's just going to make it worse. It's never a good, escalation is not it never works out.

That's my feeling. And there it is. Travelle, do you like to do laundry or do you not like to do laundry? Who likes to do laundry? I will say I did once go to a place that cleans your clothes for you, does your laundry for you.

You just drop it off and you pick it back up and it's folded already. It was entirely too expensive, but I enjoyed that. Yeah, very much. I have literally only done it once, but I did enjoy it that one time having someone else do my laundry for me. Hey, Jennifer Marmer, does that tickle my elmo bust our bank oh no it's we're good to go do we have some some more money to to get uh trevelle's laundry one week of pound laundry for trevelle yeah so they don't have to do their own laundry absolutely i mean just as a token for sure i mean just as a small gesture of our appreciation for your being here treville because you're amazing i so appreciate it yeah well that figure out what it costs treville and

we'll then mow it to you i'll let you know we're gonna hodge money it to you it's one i just made up oh we have a letter yes all right we have something here from a listener named Jennifer who wrote in about a case regarding pies from the episode that was recorded on stage in Brooklyn. All right. So, yes, there was a time when we could do live shows. Fanta, ever do a live show, live podcast? Not yet. You know, we started like a couple, like a month before quarantine. Fanta ever do a live show live podcast not yet you know we started like a couple

like a month before quarantine right I hope that you get a chance to do live podcasts yes in the future I really hope you do I mean obviously because that will indicate because you would never do it irresponsibly and it would indicate that we can all get back together in a room together which is something

I miss a lot yes and obviously because you and jared would be great on stage oh why thank you and also it's a chance to sell that merch lurch to the merch the lurch to the merch so we do live podcast or we used to do live podcasts and and they're a lot of fun and we and we did one in january here in brooklyn where i live and this was a live dispute on stage it was about how many pies were necessary for one Thanksgiving dinner the plaintiff Karen her husband Jamie is a pie freak loves to make pies I think he made something like 15 pies for one dinner wow and I told him to cut it back because the time that he was spending on those pies,

particularly for a big holiday dinner, that's time that he could be helping out in other ways, helping other people in other ways rather than focusing on his project. 14, 15 pies were too many, right? So this person, Jennifer, wrote in having listened to that live case. And she writes, my daughter, Hannah, is an avid baker.

When she heard the pie case, she declared that she would not abide by your judgment. My judgment, Travelle. Hannah is a scofflaw. Oh, no. Last fall, Hannah baked at least 11 pies, one cake, and a batch of tartlets for the Thanksgiving. 11 pies, one cake, and a batch of tartlets. Guess how many guests they were having. That's a lot.

So I'm going to say like 30. 14. Oh. 14. 14. That is, look, I refuse to do math, but that feels like almost a pie per person. Almost, yes. That's a lot of pie.

Jennifer goes on to say, it could have been worse. I refused to purchase the 125 eggs and 56 sticks of butter that she requested. Wow. Two of her friends staged an intervention and viciously cut down her baking plan before she came home for the holiday. plan before she came home for the holiday. Even though it will apparently have no effect in our kitchen, your ruling is appreciated by the families of fanatical bakers everywhere.

I gotta say, Travell, this is a time when unjust laws need to be pushed and challenged. Yes, very much so. But my ruling that 15 pies for one normal sized holiday dinner is too much that shall never be challenged because it is very just yeah that's too many pies and cake

and tartlets for 14 people you know this again that the time that you're spending on your project particularly since baking do you you bake at Ultravel? I love baking, yes. I do not bake, but I live with a baker. So you understand. Oh, well, the thing is I love it because you know what I love? What? I mean, I don't eat cake.

I don't eat sweets. It's not part of my life. So you would think baking would have no appeal to me, particularly if someone else is doing it. But the thing is, I just love surfaces coated in flour. Love it. Love it. I love cleaning the kitchen in the morning after making everyone breakfast. Yes.

And then start thinking about what I'm going to make for dinner in my nice clean kitchen that I cleaned after cooking. And then turn away for two seconds and all of a sudden find a grown woman who lives in our house. Is suddenly in the midst of, I don't know i don't even what's a kind of cake uh like a pound cake a pound cake that one's okay though i like i like pound cake because it's basically all butter oh so you like butter yeah well yeah i mean look when when jennifer said she refused like i don't

want 11 pies in one cake etc etc but when she said that it was going to take 125 eggs and 56 sticks of butter the first thing i did was picture my refrigerator full of 125 eggs and 56 sticks of butter and i got really happy i'm talking about a kink yes yes pack pack my fridge with eggs and butter that sounds like a saying well pack my fridge with eggs and butter. That sounds like a saying. Well, pack my fridge with eggs and butter. Could not be happier to see you. That's actually really amazing. The point was, I don't like counters covered in flour.

It really, especially when I just got it clean. Baking is messy. It's involved. Hannah, when you go home for thanksgiving you may notice there are other people in the kitchen making other foods as much as i love the eggs and butter in your fridge cut it in half and use that extra time to help out your mom jennifer she sent in some photos of a dessert spread from thanksgiving it is a beautiful spread i'm not gonna lie yeah we're gonna put this photo up on the judge john hodgman instagram page and also our show page at

maximumfund.org so this is hannah's spread and it looks like one two three look it's beautiful it's an incredible pumpkin cake in the shape of a pumpkin. Yeah, that's actually really amazing. So I guess we have to give Hannah some credit for the innovativeness and the ingenuity and the creativity. Yeah, she's great. And there are the tartlets up there on top of the cooler. You see them on that wall? Oh, yes, I do.

Yeah, great tartlets. And then, oh, there's a whole other field of pies behind it. Oh, wait, we didn't even see the other pies. Yes, y'all, there's like, I guess, 11 pies in this picture. I mean, pack my fridge with eggs and butter. This is too much. Beautiful. It may each look like a different pie, too, like a different flavor, a different set of

that's just too much. It's a great looking spread. Cut it in half. All right. I think the docket is clear. Is that correct, Ravel? It is very much so clear in half. All right. I think the docket is clear. Is that correct, Travell? It is very much so clear. Yes. All right. That is it for another episode of Judge John Hodgman. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Thank you, Travell, for joining us again on the show. Travell, you're on Twitter at Travell Anderson. That's T-R-E-V-E-L-L Anderson spelled in the common way. All one word. No underscore by the way and good for you. You know what I mean? No offense to David Reese but that first name underscore last name looks like garbage. Avoid that.

If you haven't listened to their podcast Fanta yet, get on it for all the reasons. It's every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm on Twitter, of course, at Hodgman, and I'm on Instagram personally at John Hodgman. But make sure to hashtag your tweets and your instas and all your socials, hashtag JJHO, and follow the show on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman and check out the Maximum Fund

subreddit to discuss this episode at MaximumFund.reddit.com. Finally, if that's not enough interaction for you, submit your cases. We need cases all the time. Submit them to MaximumFund.org slash JJHO. If you like filling out forms, that's where you go. If you like composing an email, just send one to me at Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. That's all for now. We will not see you next time. How does this keep happening? This is a podcast. I can't see you, listener.

But I will enjoy talking to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thanks, Travell. Thank you. MaximumFun.org. John Hodgman podcast. Thanks, Travell. Thank you.