Judge John Hodgman - Trial By Kombat

Episode Date: November 25, 2015

Laura has refused to play Mortal Kombat with her boyfriend Austin since he began doing extensive research and practice outside of their video game sessions. Should Austin come back down to her level so they can play a beloved game together? CAN he even do so? Guest Bailiffed by David Rees!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm your guest bailiff, David Reese. This week, trial by combat. Austin brings the case against his girlfriend, Laura. They enjoy playing video games together, but Laura has put the kibosh on their favorite fighter game. She says Austin is too good and has taken the fun out of playing together. Austin says he's just playing the best that he can and wants Laura to resume their friendly video game matches. Who's right? Who's wrong? Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and issues the obscure cultural reference.

Those cute little pack men with their special nicknames, that dinky signature tune, the dot-munching lemon that goes whack-a-whack-a-whack-a-whack-a-whack-a, the machine has an air of childish whimsicality. Do I take risks in order to gobble up the fruit symbol in the middle of the screen? I do not, and neither should you. Like the fat and harmless saucer in Missile Command, the fruit symbol is there simply to tempt you into hubristic sorties. Pac-Man player, be not proud,

nor too macho, and you will prosper on the dotted screen. Yes, Bailiff David Reese, swear them in. Austin and Laura, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So help you God or whatever. I do.

I do. Do you swear to abide by judge John Hodgman's ruling? I do. Thank you. Judge Hodgman. You may proceed. Thank you very much. Guest bailiff,

David Reese, Austin and Laura. You may be seated. Welcome back, David Reese, by the way. Thank you for being here again. Now in week two or perhaps three, depending on airing of your new television show or your new old television show,

Going Deep with David Reese season two on Esquire TV. Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure. Now that we're into the run of the shows and the response has been incredible. Over the moon. Incredible. We presume it will be so because we're recording this before it premieres. But how have you enjoyed it so far?

Well, you know, I love a ticker tape parade. That I did not see coming. So the last two weeks for me, I've just been in a state of permanent ecstasy. That's great. Because you've got people following you around all the time throwing confetti at you. Exactly. Yeah. That would be a good one.

How to throw confetti. Ooh. Well, they're actually, not to give too much away, but there is a scene that does involve confetti this season. Actually, in the episode that features you, Judge, how to take a nap. So explain just very quickly to our listeners, what is the premise of the show? this season. Actually, in the episode that features you, Judge, How to Take a Nap. So, explain just very quickly to our listeners, what is the premise of the show? Going Deep is a how-to show about the things you think you know how to do.

So, we take topics where you think there's nothing you could possibly learn, like how to take a nap or how to make toast, and then we go out and find scientists and experts and enthusiasts who can speak to these very particular mundane acts and we try to celebrate the everyday and in the how to take a nap episode what was the name of the expert that you consulted john hodgman yes in fact we spoke in this very room my very very chambers. That's right. If you're curious to know what my chambers look like and what I look like when I'm sleeping, please stop the home invasion and just watch television. Wednesday nights at 10 p.m., Going Deep with David Reese on the Esquire Network, which is a television channel on cable. All right.

Thank you, Judge. You're welcome, of course. This is one of my favorite things in the world, and I'm really glad that you're here to fill in on guest bailiff today. Hi, Austin. And hi, Laura. I did tell you you could be seated. Did you sit down? Yes, we did, Your Honor.

Great. So, Austin and Laura, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors can either of you name and i fear you might be able to austin can either of you name the piece of arguably popular culture that i referenced as i entered the courtroom uh laura you are the respondent in this case so you get first choice as to whether you want to guess first or make austin guess first? I will let Austin guess first. All right, Austin, you get first guess. What is your guess as to the source of the quote that I quoted when I quoted it?

I think I'm wrong, but I'm going to go out and say, is it from King of Kong, the Donkey Kong documentary? Ah, yeah. You know what? That's a legit guess. I'm not going to say whether it's right or wrong because it's now time for Laura to guess. Oh, okay. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that it is from the story Ready Player One. Two good guesses, but all guesses are wrong. I sorry that's it i have not read ready player one

it's great right i actually haven't read it either i just thought it was the closest thing because i didn't recognize the quote i was gonna go out on a limb and just yes austin have you read it i have not it's on it's on my list to read right david have you read it no but i've heard of it book club you guys we have a book club going now that's fantastic all right so i will i will read that book i'm gonna i'm gonna start it tonight and that's true i'm really gonna do it and and i hope you guys do it too uh austin you were referencing uh king of kong which is the great documentary about the epic King Kong high high score fight between Steve Weeby and and Billy Mitchell, which if you've not seen it, humans of Earth, you're among the few. But you should. It's great. But you're wrong as well. I was quoting from a book. The book is called, it's not in print anymore, but it is

legendary. It is called Invasion of the Space Invaders, an addict's guide to battle tactics, big scores, and the best machines, published in 1982, with an introduction by Steven Spielberg. But the quote is not by Steven Spielberg. The quote is from the body of the text, but the quote is not by Steven Spielberg. The quote is from the body of the text, the author of Invasion of the Space Invaders being English famed novelist, Martin Amis, who around the time that he was researching one of his first huge novels, Money,

he didn't have a lot of money. And so he took, and apparently had a lot of familiarity with the old school console games or not console games, but what do you call cabinet games? You know, 1970s, 1980s arcade games. And so he wrote this book called Invasion of the Space Invaders, which is a guide to how to how to beat the games and the best way to fight on Space Invaders and which games are the best and which games are not so good. He notoriously said,

Donkey Kong will not last beyond a year. And I didn't realize it until I was reading this, this, this particular paragraph that he doesn't know who Pac-Man is in Pac-Man. He referred to the ghosts as the Pac-Man and pac-man as a dot munching lemon that goes whack-a-whack-a-whack-a-whack so to the degree to which he was familiar i mean he had to have been pretty familiar his his take on on shooting the space invaders from the edges first to narrow the phalanx as he wrote it uh that's that's top flight space invader uh uh advice i

have to say but but he got a little. Maybe his heart wasn't in it. And he has refused to discuss this book ever since. Anyone who brings it up gets met with stony silence. And so if you meet Martin Namus, don't mention it. But I was glad to find a few quotes from it to stump you guys. So neither one of you gets an immediate summary judgment. And we have to go and hear this dumb case about video games now listen austin uh you bring this case and it's regarding a specific video game normally we we prefer not to mention brand names on on the podcast just to make it

as confusing as possible especially to the first time listener but in this case let's just be straightforward nobody because it is a very specific game. The game that you like to play and wish to play with your girlfriend, Laura, is called? Mortal Kombat. Mortal Kombat. And you are playing this game because you are time travelers and we're actually in 1998? What's going on? No, we're playing the new one, Mortal Kombat 10. Mortal Kombat 10. Mortal Kombat 10.

And what console or what? How are you playing it? We're actually playing it on a PC with a 20 foot HDMI cable hooked up to the television. So you are a serious gamer. Yeah, you could say that. I think that applies to both of us. Does it apply to you, Laura? Because the crux of this. Well to you laura because the crux of

this well we're not at the crux yet right now we're just at the beef the beef between that austin has with you is that you're not playing mortal combat enough with him how do you respond to this accusation uh i would say that austin is a much more serious gamer than i am i think that i'm still a gamer i definitely built my own computer and have a pretty impressive, we won't mention where I keep this gaming library or the service that makes it available, but I have a lot of games and I enjoy playing. And I've definitely bought games the day that they came out

and taken time off of work to play the game. But that's the extent of it. I do not research gameplay in any way. And that's part of the beef here because you don't want to play with Austin because he's learning all the codes, correct? Exactly. And I want to make it clear that he's not learning cheat codes in any way. In Mortal Kombat, you can hit combos and do a lot of damage, make it clear that he's not learning cheat codes in any way. He's in more in mortal combat. You can,

uh, hit combos and do a lot of damage. And that's, that's what he's doing. He's learning really lengthy combos. And, uh, comp or now are you buzz marketing for the snack food?

What's going on, Laura? Are you the most, you're the most sophisticated with a K. Is it really with a, is it really with a K in the gaming world? Mortal combat related. You say K. Whoa. All right. I didn with a K. Is it really with a K? In the gaming world? Yeah, if it's Mortal Kombat related, you say K. Whoa.

Alright, I didn't know that. So, Austin, what's your favorite... Explain what a combo is and tell me what your favorite is. A combo is a character can block either a high block or low block at any time and so a lot of the game is

spent blocking. But once you land a punch, you can lead into another hit with that as long as it's in a combo sequence. So you can lead into a sequence where you maybe do like five or six hits and the other character, the other person playing is vulnerable attack. They can't block while you're doing that combo.

And so, and how do you trigger a combo and how do you trigger a combo and what and how and what does it look like on screen well just a bloody mess it's generally just a bloody mess but like each character has probably you know a set of like four or five combos that will be like four or five hits uh together and um what you can do is uh you can kind of chain those together to get really like higher hit combos uh to get up until yeah but what are you doing how are you triggering the combos with your i'm sorry maybe i misunderstand have you transitioned into pure ai are you a being of pure consciousness now oh no i have i have a controller i have a meat body i still have a a meat body, and I interface with the controller,

and so it's a specific sequence of button presses on the controller that will let you do the combo on screen. So some characters, you know, like XXY might be a combo, but it won't work for other characters. So if you do XXY and you land that first hit, you'll automatically be able to carry through and get those other two hits,

and they won't be able to interrupt or block you when you do that. And who's your favorite, who's your favorite character? Uh, predator is my favorite character. Yep. That's a buzz market anymore than we have,

but no, but we can talk about, we can talk about mortal combat, but you're not predator is not. Cause Ray didn't, I remember from mortal combat. I mean, my memory,

my understanding of mortal combat extends to one evening at a pizza place in 1998 or something like that. And even earlier than that, right? That game goes back to when I was in college. So the 1890s or whatever. But I remember, yeah, I remember now in the North Haven multiplex cinema, they had one. And there was Raiden. And then there was Scoprion scorpio or who are the other characters scorpion i think scorpion yeah do you remember any of the other characters in your

favorite game oh scorpion smoke sub-zero uh sub-zero shanks austin is really good at kenshi don't let him fool you with this predator talk he is really good at Kenshi. Don't let him fool you with this Predator talk. He is really good at the main cast of Mortal Kombat characters as well. So is Predator like the Predator from the movie Predator, or is that a different character? He's Predator from the movie Predator. Oh, so now you have new franchises coming in and fighting? Yeah, the last couple games, the Mortal Kombat developers have

had you know kind of guest characters that come in so they've had Freddy Krueger they've had Jason Voorhees and now they have Predator as uh the guest character let me ask you this do they have Martin Namus they should have Martin Namus I would love to play that game with Pac-Man. Okay. So I don't like this. I don't like you playing. I don't like, why do you want to play predator? Why not?

Any of the classics? Predator is just awesome. I mean, he's a, he's cool. So what is predators best combo move? If you hit XX wide, blah, blah,

baby, booby dupe, and you'd go up, up, down, up, down, whatever.

And then, and then claw, claw, grab, down, up, down, whatever, and then claw, grab, claw, grab, screech. What happens? What does he do on screen? He has a move in which he lunges forward and impales the other character with his hand claw. And so you can lead into that attack with a three or four hit combo. And if you expend a meter, there's a little resource on the bottom of the screen that charges

up and then you can like use the super charge an individual move so you've expend a meter when you do that last hit with a claw grab he'll slam them on the ground and then they'll pop up and they're still vulnerable so you can literally do the same thing again and get like a 10 hit combo using the same combo twice and you discovered this on your own or you did some research and and found out about it no i i researched the combos online and laura what is your favorite combo move and character well i am not very good at stringing together these 27 hit combos like austin is uh i think that um i'm kind of a traditionalist i'm a really big fan of sonja blade she's been around since the beginning and i like that her moves have stayed largely the same throughout the different versions of the game um you can do the fly kick that she does really well her specials

are fun she does that infamous kiss of death that like throws the opponent off for a second. And I will string combos together the best that I can just by looking up the combos within the game and not, you know, researching them on streaming services or, you know, looking at them online. Right. So why, what, how old are you guys? How, if I may ask, Laura? I'm 29 for another month. Happy birthday in advance. Austin?

I'll probably be 29 as well by the time this airs. Oh, happy birthday. I thought you were saying I'll probably be 29 someday. Well, happy. It all goes according to plan. Happy birthday, grown adults who play video games all the time. I take it you don't have children. No.

There's no shame. Look, I wish I were living your life. I used to like to point and click and shoot and run and jump and Lara Croft and Thief. I used to love games. I used to love them. Love them. But then life took over for me. Maybe it won't ever happen for you.

And where is your house located? What state or commonwealth or province in North America? Brandon, Florida. In Brandon, Florida. Where is that in Florida? It's a suburb of Tampa. Okay. What's going on down there?

A lot of breweries. It's a good time. Is that what you work in? No, we work for the state. Oh, okay. And you guys know each other from working for the state of Florida? Yes. Okay. And it sounds like you're living the dream.

Two young people with good government jobs, mutual love of Mortal Kombat, pretty sweet gaming rigs, living in a temperate climate that will be enjoyable to live in until it is swallowed by the sea within 15 years. And yet you have this problem, which is you can't get your girlfriend to play Mortal Kombat with you anymore. How does that make you feel?

I feel like we're depriving ourselves of an otherwise fun activity that we used to really enjoy together. What does Mortal Kombat mean in your relationship? joy together what is mortal combat mean in your relationship um i dare say that without mortal combat i don't think we would have expressed our feelings for one another um that sounds like a t-shirt right there explain that to me please um well uh we well wait a minute wait before you do laura is what austin says true um i don't know what he said made us sound really really really nerdy uh don't worry we were already there but mortal combat uh definitely was our icebreaker tell the story one of you

or fight for the right to tell it austin would win so go ahead um fatality so uh we uh started hanging out after we had like a wedding to go to for a mutual friend and a Christmas party. We did both these things together. Afterwards, we came back to my house to play Mortal Kombat because we had talked about Mortal Kombat and how awesome it was and how it was a big deal in both of our childhoods. As we played the game, we gravitated towards each other on the couch each session uh that kind of led wait each session how many sessions are we talking about i think there's two or three i mean there are a couple they're they're like they're more like rounds than sessions because i mean you only play each other the first person who wins a round twice wins that particular match.

And so we played a couple like matches. So sesh by sesh, round by round, match by match. You guys are getting closer on this couch. And then what happened? Oh, and then we just sort of had an honest expression of our feelings for each

other after, after our constant, you know, contact and bloody displays of violence on the TV. What? Are you saying you hugged and kissed? No, I think I looked at him because our elbows began touching, and I was like, so what's with this, man?

Yeah. You're winning the storytelling right now, gotta tell you he's trying some of the classic elbow touch moves all right and and it worked man um but i will i will get up and like kind of like jump around because i get into like into the game i will like yell at the tv i'm moving around a lot and so i'm kind of up and down on this couch and while we're while we're doing all that we kind of realize that we're both gravitating towards each other. And so, you know, when I look at him and I said, hey, you know, what's with this movement here to the center? And, you know, he kind of admitted that he had feelings for me and I returned those feelings.

And, you know, we took it from there. So it wasn't a euphemism. You had an honest conversation. We had an honest conversation. About your feelings. Oh. And had one of you, was that in the middle of the game? Or had you just pulled the spine out of your opponent at that point?

Or what? I think that we had just pulled the spine out of our opponent. We would never have a serious conversation while we were in the middle of playing Mortal Kombat. That is a very sexy story. It really is. And who pulled out whose spine before the honest conversation about feelings? Who won that round? I don't know.

At that time, it could have been either of us. At that time, we were still very equally matched. You feeling that? You feeling that, Austin? At that time, you were equally matched. I'd say so. You were both? No, no.

I'm just saying. I'm stipulating. I'm not looking for a response. I'm trying to tell, trying to establish something here that you guys, whether or not you were precisely equally matched, because I could feel you coming and going, well, I wouldn't say we were exactly. I mean, I could go back to, I could go back to the statistics that I wrote down at the time, but you were, but you were both into it at the same level at that point, right?

Your enthusiasm was equal. Would you agree, Austin? Yes. So just to clarify and crystallize for me, Laura, your interest level in Mortal Kombat, how long ago was this now? It's only about a year ago. So your interest level in Mortal Kombat over the past year

has declined to the point where you will not play often or willingly with Austin because what? I will not play Mortal Kombat or any other competitive game with Austin unless we can be on the same team because uh like I said I get really into the game I'm I'm moving around I'm jumping I'm I'm excited and I really enjoy playing especially Mortal Kombat um I get a lot out of it uh and when I play Austin uh because during our relationship Mortal Kombat 10 came out and we we were actually looking forward to it a lot. And in preparation for Mortal Kombat X, Austin started looking up combos and characters and practicing. And I mean, he would be playing for hours on the training mode, just seeing if he could pull off these combos and getting really good at his timing. seeing if he could pull off these combos and getting really good at his timing.

And I'm not trying to say that he's in any way cheating, because he's not. He really increased his skill in the game through a lot of hard work and a lot of effort. And so when we sat down to play the video game one night, he just wiped the floor with me. I could barely get in a punch. He was flawless victoring me all over the place, and I got mad. I got really angry, and I got really frustrated, and I realized that that's silly,

that you shouldn't get frustrated or that mad over a game. It's just a game. But I really didn't like that every time my character stood up, he knocked my character back down again. Every time I tried to block him, he would get me with a combo like lead in that you can't block. And it was just really frustrating. And I didn't want to play anymore ever again after that because I was so mad and so angry and I just don't want to feel that way. given that this was such an important part of your courtship how did it feel now uh to be routinely destroyed in this arena it felt bad it felt really bad how do you respond to that austin i don't think she should feel bad over i mean just because there's an imbalance doesn't mean

that we can't have fun playing the game or otherwise enjoy it how would you how would you say what's that what'd you say sorry i said that's such a guy thing to say what do you mean what what do you mean guest bailiff david reese i don't i don't mean to interrupt no i'm sorry no it's your it's your right as bailiff to interrupt if you've got something to say and i would like to hear what hear what was the guy thing to say? I don't think she should feel that way? Yeah, when he said, just because there's a terrific imbalance

in which I'm always dominant doesn't mean it's not fun. We guess Bailiff launches an attack. How do you counter, Austin? I'm not intending to make her feel that way or anything, but I'd also go back and object to the practicing with Mortal Kombat 9, because it's not really super applicable to the new Mortal Kombat. Like we have yet to face each other in the new game whatsoever.

Oh, you haven't even given it a try, Laura? We have played Mortal Kombat 10 together, but we've done it in turns. So we will play the towers and stuff, or we'll play conquest mode, and I will play around, and then he will play around, and we'll kind of beat the game together. But no, I won't play against him because I see him play, and although he says that his practicing on Mortal Kombat 9 is not applicable to his skills in Mortal Kombat 10, I challenge that because the moves throughout Mortal Kombat history have been readily transferable from game to game.

You challenge it by refusing his challenge to play. Indeed, I challenge his challenge. You challenge his challenge. Refuse his refusal um but he by getting good at mortal kombat 9 he was ready to go for mortal kombat 10 is there a game that you guys are comparable at at this point i think the chilling effect has has been such that we have not played against each other at anything for a while what is the reason that you want to get laura back

and kill her on screen i mean she mentioned before how into it she gets where she's jumping up and down and she gets really animated while we play and that just makes the it makes the game that much more fun to have somebody else who is into it uh as you are um and as animated about you know what's going on on screen you miss her in that world i do all right and how would you resolve this issue because i mean you you said something which is i'm sorry she feels that way or i wish she didn't feel that way but she does feel that way right and that's and that's you can't change how someone feels and so the solution of she should stop feeling that way isn't going to work in this situation so given that she does feel that playing this particular game with you is no longer fun for her because you've left her behind and just gotten so good that

you can just destroy all humans and all monsters with your mind. What would you suggest she do that? She get better or that you dumb it down or what? Um, I I've previously offered to learn a character of her choosing and try to and show her kind of like the combos relevant to that character and that didn't really fly um at this point i would just be open to just giving it another try because mortal kombat 10 um i've i have not played that one in a while, with the exception of the last couple days leading up to this podcast.

Laura wanted some evidence of my skills to submit to the court. And so I played a couple online matches to see how it'd fare after not playing for a while. And how'd you do? I did okay. I probably won half of them. Laura, you submitted some evidence. I did okay. I probably like one half of them. Laura, you submitted some evidence. I did. And the evidence that you submitted is an affidavit from one chance. And I have it here in front of me.

And I'm going to read it to the court. Bailiff David, will you hand me this evidence? Sure. Give me a second. Sure. Thank you. I just a second. Sure. Thank you. I just handed it to you. Yeah, no, I got it. That was some great radio comedy we just did.

I was lying before, and now I have it here in front of me. It says, my name is Chance Linden. I am 26 years old, a resident of the state of Florida, a citizen of the United States of America. I personally know Austin and Laura and have personally played Mortal Kombat with both Austin and Laura. Austin was nearly always the victor in every Mortal Kombat match in which I have witnessed him play. I can attest that his skill in combat has developed well beyond

the mere button mashing technique. Indeed, Mr. O has memorized nearly every combo move for every character in the game. It has been my experience that Mr. O can defeat any opponent using any character he chooses. Most matches I have witnessed him compete in lasted only a matter of minutes. Speaking as one who has faced Austin in combat, the ease and deliberateness with which he dispatched me from the arena has thoroughly discouraged me from engaging in future matches with him. I have witnessed Austin obtain flawless victory on more than one occasion i certify the information in this affidavit is true and correct to the best of my knowledge signed

chance first of all what is a flawless victory for those who do not know austin a flawless victory is where you defeat your opponent and you do not lose any of your health meter how many flawless victories have you enjoyed in Mortal Kombat? If I had to guess ballpark, I mean, of all Mortal Kombat matches, you know, probably 50 or so. All right. And how many flawless victories have you enjoyed? Not counting the one you're about to enjoy in this fake court. No, no, I'm not. I have not prejudgedged i have not prejudged we'll see um i i've had a few uh in

in conquest mode um or in the game against we've all had a few flawless victories in conquest mode yeah i've never gotten a flawless victory against another real live human being i mean maybe not since i was like seven and playing it on the Super Nintendo. Boy, you guys take it all the way back, don't you? That's amazing. All right. So what was your solution? That you would train her to be as good as you?

I offered to train her some like the basic combos of a character of her choosing, but that didn't really seem to fly. And I said, like I said, at this point, I think the solution would be to just, you know, kind of get back on the saddle and see where we see, see where we are with Mortal Kombat 10 as we have not played against each other. Um, since the game came out,

if you were to play a game of Mortal Kombat 10 together, if I were to so order it of Laura and she she were to say and she and i mean what's gonna happen austin um she might have fun like we used to um she might she might get uh angry like she did that one night that she described um but you know it's been a while. We should see how it works out. What is the outcome going to be? 50 flawless victories. Ballpark. What's the outcome going to be? You're going to beat her, right?

I'll probably beat her in the first match, but, you know, we'll see what happens. Like I said, it's more of an even playing ground with the new game out. Laura, do you miss having fun with Austin at Mortal Kombat? Absolutely. And yet he has gone on. He can't unlearn what he has learned. What is your proposed solution? I am fine playing cooperative games and enjoying myself, you know, and not getting angry and mad and upset because Austin is destroying me at the games that I once loved.

But if Austin really wants me to play with him, there's no way that Austin is going to stay good at Mortal Kombat. While it cannot be unlearned, it can definitely, to keep these combos going, these 27 hit combos that just wipe me across the floor um he has to remember what those combos are in his in his brain and i mean it's you can't remember xxy you know for every single character they're different across characters and so i think that if he took a long enough break from mortal komb, his skill set would be such that it could again be an even match. I'm not like the best Mortal Kombat player ever, but I'm definitely not a button masher and I can hold my own if I'm allowed to hit the other person and not forced into these

unblockable situations. And so I would be open to playing with him again like he asks if he were to wait and not look at or touch or even think about Mortal Kombat for at least a year. It would be a year-long injunction that I would require. That's a long time, Laura. I realize, but he is really good at Mortal Kombat. Austin, do you think if you waited a year without playing Mortal Kombat, I mean, can you do it? Are you the master of your domain? I mean, I would have the willpower to do it.

A year seems very harsh. Maybe if there were a shorter period of time in which maybe I couldn't play or I couldn't play outside of Laura and I playing and she could play on her own and maybe try to get an advantage that way instead of a full year of no Mortal Kombat.

I think another game would probably come out by the time that came to pass. Even better. Why is that even better? Because then he would be even less prepared if a new if we had mortal kombat 11 and he had not played for a year i feel like i could i could once again be a challenger still playing the game that's amazing i love the game i love the game it's not that i don't want to play the game i'm talking about the game you're playing right now I love the game.

It's not that I don't want to play the game at all. I'm talking about the game you're playing right now. In any case, I think I've heard everything I need in order to make my decision. I'm going to go up to Lake Winnipesaukee to the old arcade and play a few rounds of what was my favorite one, Mr. Do. And I'll be back in a moment to render my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Why are you guys so into video games? I just grew up playing video games. I was terrible at sports, so I played video games.

I was allergic to grass seed and oak trees and all kinds of things as a kid and so the outdoors and sports that was just like not my bag. So I had my old trusty Super Nintendo and that's kind of what I did with my spare time. Laura, how did you get so into video games? I have an older brother who plays a lot. He played a lot of video games for whatever his reasons were. And because I was his little sister, I wanted to do everything that he did. And so I played video games from as long as I can remember. Is Mortal Kombat the best video game? I don't know about that.

It's definitely up there. I would put it in my top 10. I think it's the best fighting game. It's definitely the best fighter. I agree with that statement. When this case started and the judge was asking you questions, I texted my girlfriend and said, what's the name of the video game you play on your iPad

all the time? Is it Mortal Kombat? But it's something called Final Fantasy. Is that good? Yeah, there's a number of good Final Fantasy games. I don't know which one she's playing. Seven. Oh yeah, that's the best one. Final Fantasy games. I don't know which one she's playing, but... Seven. Oh, yeah, that's the best one. Do you guys play Scrabble?

We do not, actually. Yeah, I mean, I'm open to Scrabble. I've played it in the past. It's fun. Ouch. We'll be back in just a moment with Judge Hodgman's decision. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff jesse thorn of course the judge john hodgman podcast always brought to you by you the members of maximum fun.org thanks to everybody

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scrabble as i was listening through the door of the chambers because i have played scrabble with david reese and uh it's a similar situation i am i'm a okay scrabble player uh but david is playing at a level that is far beyond me and really challenged me to get better come on no i'm not that it's just that one crazy time when i had that one amazing play well you made a happiest moment of my life you made a you made a word across the entire top row of the board you hit triple you triple word at least twice maybe three times on one word and bingo this is what happened and this is like can i just uh let me i'll just say one thing because i kind of relate to austin like when you asked him how many what's it called invisible invincible uh flawless

victories flawless victories like i don't know it's like bro i remember my psat score you know what i mean you think he doesn't totally because it's just like me with that it's just like me with that one time when i played frightened and i bingoed and i hit two triple word scores and i got 145 points on a single boom scrabble play and that's probably the only thing i've mentioned on every podcast i've ever been on because that's how much it means to me. And I was there and I was there when it happened. And I was just like, no more. And I'm scared to play with you. I do think that playing with you improved my game because it made me rethink a lot of my vocabulary and my strategy.

Oh, I'm sorry. Austin and Laura, you may be seated. lot of my vocabulary and my strategy oh i'm sorry austin and laura you may be seated so sometimes we get you know look sometimes we we get some conversations going about scrabble and i'll just go on for a long time because that is a beautiful that is a beautiful game just like your game is a beautiful game your story about your game is a beautiful game. And the story of how Austin, frankly, betrayed your game and left you behind in the dust is heartbreaking. And Austin, that's what you did, dude. It's cool. Gaming is an endeavor that is both competitive and cooperative. It involves teamwork, but it also involves, it's one of the sports, one of the solitary sports of personal perfection.

Where you might enjoy doing it with someone for a while or whatever, but there's knowledge to be had and scoured up off of the internet on how to get your predator to shove his claw hand through someone else's midsection and get that flawless victory there is a siren call to perfection that that i feel all gamers feel you know they want not merely victory but flawless victory again and again and again. And you guys have only been going out for about a year. You didn't, you were following your natural instinct, Austin, because it hadn't been that long that you were, you know, either in another relationship or alone, but you didn't have this,

this connection that you had with Laura around this particular game. So you just kept doing what you normally do. You just perfect your game, perfect your game, perfect your game. You didn't know what you were doing to your relationship, though, because you got too good. You got too good. You got to the point where you could bingo on two double word squares just by thinking of it.

And I got to tell you, dude, it makes it not fun for people to play with you. And I completely sympathize with Laura. This is not to blame you or whatever else. But if you get so good at a thing, you can't stop. You can't unlearn what you have learned. You can't stop being good at a thing that you're good at, nor should you. You earned that. You earned that level of skill.

But you have to face the consequences. You've turned yourself into a monster. You've turned yourself into a high-level competitor. And it's not fun for someone below your skill level to be destroyed by you over and over again. That's true whether it's chess, whether it's scrabble whether it's uh mortal combat you know over a period of time your girlfriend's going to enjoy seeing her avatar physically mutilated by you less and less and less and less it's just the way it goes and so i was definitely gonna say dude people like what they like. And one of the things you learn about relationships as they mature is some things you can't get back. You can't get back that first date.

Shouldn't try to chase it. Shouldn't chase that dragon. And so I don't think you chase dragons in mortal combat, but you know what I'm talking about? Sometimes there's a dragon. But then Laura stepped in with this counter challenge that maybe I, maybe I read it in the brief or, and, and forgot about it. I don't know. I'm getting old, but it took me by utter surprise where she's like, oh yeah, I'll play with him again. He just has to stop playing for a year. And I'm like, you guys are serious gamers.

You guys are playing all kinds of games right now. You have turned the metagame around whether or not to play Mortal Kombat into a different kind of Mortal Kombat. A kind of Mortal Kombat that I warn you can be damaging to relationships. Asking people to give up the thing they love for a long period of time to prove that they still care about you, that's a hard thing. That's a hard thing for a long period of time to prove that they still care about you that's a that's a hard thing that's a hard thing for a relationship and i and i i worry i worry that uh that the game the games person ship that you both enjoy might tear you apart if you ask him to stop playing the

game for a year only for you to play again and you know i bet you even money it's not gonna go well for you laura unless you get really really really good and then what happens you beat him you beat like if you got really really good and he got he took some dumb pills and got bad and then you beat him are you still gonna are you still going to have that moment back where you touched elbows my advice to you guys is to let mortal combat go you enjoy playing cooperative games it's not important to go back to that first time you guys are going to move in together there are going to be new things that you can discover but i gotta say if laura's issuing a challenge, that's awesome. And maybe what you need to learn is that there are certain aspects in your life where you don't have to, or maybe shouldn't, play games.

A year is too long. I think that's unreasonably punitive to ask. I will not allow those damages. But I will order Austin that he must stop playing Mortal Kombat altogether for three months and laura you can do whatever you want you can learn to get better on it or even not end of three months no playing no playing and no reading and no researching turn off that part of your brain and then you will face each other in the arena whatever happens happens and if it's different this time and you want to play some more then great but just remember whatever happens it will be different you will not get that first moment back again. And there's no sense chasing it. That, in games, you can chase perfection.

In relationships, you know, there is no flawless victory. So stop looking for it. And if at the time that you guys face again, and obviously I would like a video document. Of this fight. So that we can post it on our website. If after that time Laura still says. It's just not for me.

It drives me crazy. I'm sorry. My life is different now. Go on and kill everyone in the world. But stop killing me. Then Austin you got to accept that. But if she says, Hey, I like it again. Let's play some more. Just remember it's, it's something new now. It's something different. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge Sean Hodgman rules. That is all. Austin, how do you feel about the judge's decision? think it's fair i mean we're going to at least play one match again in the future three months is a reasonable uh cooling off period i i think uh so i look forward to i look forward to playing again in three months are you going to be practicing non-stop in your mind no no no i. I will delete that part of my brain for those three months. And Laura, how do you feel? I am skeptically optimistic. I hope that three months is long enough for Austin to forget some things. And I will try to maybe practice on the side, since he is barred from even watching it. Yeah, there you go.

Because I want to play the game again. I want to enjoy it with Austin again. And even if it isn't that moment on the couch, there is nothing like sharing a few fatalities with the person you love. I want to say one thing. I guess this can be a micro verdict. The reason I was interested in this case is I can sympathize with both of your positions. And that's why I brought up Scrabble.

Because once you reach a certain level of Scrabble aptitude, you start memorizing all two and three-letter words. And you have to decide at some point whether you're going to deploy that knowledge against particular opponents, whether the thrill of dropping a totally sick XI or whatever is going to be outweighed by the fact that this is no longer like a fun or flirtatious even exercise with your partner and is just becoming a zero-sum game. And I think as I've gotten older, I'm older than you guys, the excitement of just completely bludgeoning my opponents, which is what I used to do or try to do with my housemate Ben when we lived together in Boston, would play for money and one night, I think, played for eight hours straight until four in the morning.

Those pleasures become outweighed by the pleasure of the back and forth of an evenly matched game, even if you are kind of hobbling yourself. I mean, I've never played against... I should say, I've never been in a romantic relationship with someone who wasn't my equal at Scrabble because I just feel like that wouldn't work. The same reason I've never dated a libertarian. But it's like in The Wire, you know, Stringer Bell in The Wire, at one point he says, there's games beyond the game, you know? And there's a deeper game that you can play while you're playing the game, which I guess is the game that you guys started playing when you touched elbows, like the judge talked about. But

for me, as I've gotten older, the pleasure of using Scrabble as kind of an emotionally charged back and forth, like an old 1940s romantic comedy, that's become a richer satisfaction to me than just trying to wipe the floor with my opponent. And you can still have the competitive aspect to it, especially if you attach particular stakes, shall we say, to the victory. Anyway, I kind of just rambled there. You can cut it. But I was just thinking about my experience playing Scrabble with romantic partners. Yeah, let's make sure we cut all of that. No, we're not going to cut it. We're not going to. No, we're not going to cut it.

We're not going to cut it. We're not going to cut it because David Reese is absolutely right. Very wise. This is the kind of, if I may say, this is the kind of wisdom and insight and human decency that is brought to bear on the David Reese program. Going deep with David Reese on Wednesday nights at 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. I presume it's something different in Mountain. Who knows about Central?

No one. On the Esquire Network, you can go to the Esquire Network website or Google Going Deep with David Reese, and you can find where on your cable box dial the Esquire Network website or Google Going Deep with David Reese, and you can find where on your cable box dial the Esquire Network is. I order you to watch it. I order you to record your next combat, and I thank you very much for being on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that

listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience. One you have no choice but to embrace because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. Thank you. And remember, you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will.

Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge, I'm sorry about the huge derail at the end there. No, no, it's cool. I liked it.

Two verdicts. I feel like we really touched elbows on that one. It was a thoughtful take on a difficult case. It was a good case, though. I liked it. Those kids are playing some heavy games. Games within games. Yeah, of course.

I wish I knew anything about video games because they seem really popular these days and I bet they're kind of rewarding. Well, you know, David, it struck me as I was listening to you speak to them while I was in chambers, you know, asking a young person, how did you get into video games? Is like asking a young white suburban kid, how did you get into rap?

It's just part of life. It's just part of life. There's no getting into it. It's just part of culture it's it how did you get into using light bulbs yeah what where'd you discover air where'd you first hear about air to breathe right what weird message board were you on where you learned about clean running water david i have something to say your television show going deep with david reese airs on wednesday nights at 10 p.m on the esquire network and if you don't know where the Esquire Network is, again,

just go to tv.esquire.com slash goingdeepdavidreese or just Google David Rees, R-E-E-S. You're going to find it. Find out where your Esquire TV is. Set your DVR. Watch the show. Watch it again after on your DVR. Enjoy it.

How many times do I got to tell you guys? If you don't do this, we're enemies forever. That's right. Thank you, John. I appreciate it. David, who edits and produces this podcast? Julia Smith produces the show. Mark McConville is our editor.

Thanks, guys. And who named this particular episode? It was Laura. It was actually Laura. So thanks to Laura for suggesting this week's. Whoa, whoa, whoa, editor. Thanks, guys. And who named this particular episode? It was Laura. It was actually Laura. So thanks to Laura for suggesting this week's... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. What? Yeah.

Trial Like Combat is Laura? She does not stop playing the game. Oh, thank you, Laura. That's intense. Thanks to Laura for suggesting this week's case name. To suggest a name for a future case, like us on Facebook, the show regularly puts out a call for submissions. And if you have a dispute for the judge, write up the details and submit it at www.maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Thank you to Josh Feinstein of Angry Lamb Studios for engineering this week.

I've been your guest bailiff, David Reese. Thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Maximumfun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Listener supported.