Judge John Hodgman - Tried Green Tomatoes

Episode Date: December 4, 2019

This week, Tried Green Tomatoes. Michael files suit against his friend and neighbor Sam. Michael is growing tomatoes on their shared rooftop and wants Sam to go onto the roof to admire his plants. Sam thinks he should never have to set foot on the roof. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Only one can decide! Thank you to Daniel Herrera for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, follow Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions. — SUBSCRIBE TO THIS PODCAST in APPLE PODCASTS or the RSS FEED

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, tried green tomatoes. Michael files suit against his friend and neighbor, Sam. Michael is growing tomatoes on their shared rooftop and wants Sam to go onto the roof to admire his plants. Sam thinks he should never have to set foot on the roof. Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Another good cake to eat plain with coffee or frosted with a covering of cream cheese and powdered sugar

and a little rum, if possible, is Cake Name Redacted. This is a pleasant cake, which keeps well and puzzles people who ask what kind it is. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, you may swear them in. Michael and Sam, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? Yes, indeed.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he may or may not have been at one point in his life one of those people who wants to tell you about how a tomato is a fruit and not a vegetable? Yes. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Thank you very much, Bailiff Jesse. Michael and Sammy may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors. The popular cultural quiz is a little different. I'm going to tell you, Michael and Sam, where that quote

came from. It is a direct quote. It is from the book, The Art of Eating, which is a collection of the food writings of MFK Fisher, one of my very favorite authors. And I would say she defined the entwining of food and memoir, which is so popular today. but she got there first in the 1940s with her book, how to cook a wolf from which this recipe comes from this description of a cake. My question to you is, I did not tell you the name of the cake. Can you guess what cake she is describing? It is a pleasant cake, which keeps well and puzzles people who ask what kind it is. What is the name of the cake? Michael, you seek justice before this court. Why don't you go first?

Tomato upside down cake. Obviously, this is a case surrounding tomatoes. I'm going to write that down in the guest book. Tomato upside down cake. Now, Sam, what is your guess? Tomato right side up cake. Both actually very good guesses, but both and all of them wrong.

Because the answer is, Bailiff Jesse Thorne, you want to guess what kind of cake this is? Tomato cake? It's tomato soup cake. Oh, wow. Ooh. Yeah. Tomato soup cake. Three tablespoons butter or shortening, one cup sugar, one teaspoon soda, one can tomato soup, two cups flour, one teaspoon cinnamon, one teaspoon nutmeg, ginger cloves,

mixed, one and a half cups of raisins, nuts, chopped figs, as MFK Fisher writes, what you will. You know, while I was on the road for Medallion Status, my book, and then when we were on tour, I was begging people on social media to please make spaghetti salad as described in the Hartford Whalers Wives 1991 cookbook and no one made it for me except for the first guy who brought it to me in San Francisco no one brought me spaghetti salad on the whole tour because it's gross well now I'm challenging you Judge John Hodgman listeners go and buy The Art of Eating or the individual book How to Cook a Wolf by MFK Fisher. Get this recipe.

If you make it for your holiday board this year, take a picture of it and send it in. We'll put it on the Instagram. Tomato soup cake. I want to know if it's good. This is starting to sound to me like a personal challenge to our friend Linda Holmes from Pop Culture Happy Hour. Baking enthusiast known to bring baked goods into National Public Radio headquarters in Washington, D.C. I think she should be making it and serving it to Scott

Simon or whatever. Linda Holmes, if you are within the sound of our voices, please, you and all listeners, try your hand at tomato soup cake. Let me know if it's any good because I'm not going to make it. I need to know what Ari Shapiro thinks of it. All right, let's get on with the case then. Michael, you bring the case before the court. What is the nature of the dispute? On the roof of our shared brownstone, me and my wife and Sam's wife have started a tomato garden in the summer. That has been a lot of fun and difficult and rewarding. And Sam refuses to go on the roof even to view the tomatoes as they're growing.

You and Sam and your respective wives all live together in one brownstone. Two separate apartments within one brownstone. Oh, okay. So then this is some kind of utopian free love scheme where you all live together? Yeah, we're a quadruple. That's how it's supposed to work. That's the voice of Sam. Sam, where is the brownstone? Where do you two couples share this brownstone? We live in Park Slope, Brooklyn.

Oh, you're my neighbors. Have you ever passed me on the street? I once saw you on the street. I tried to discreetly take a picture, but I did not get the camera out in time. All right. I've heard everything that I need to in order to make my ruling. I'm getting the largest gavel possible. I find in Michael's favor. Unless Michael, did you, have you also attempted to creep shot me? I would never. I don't believe you. He's creep shotted plenty of other people. Yeah. I, Michael feels like a creep shotter to me too, Sam. Now he just knows that I'm going to rule against him if he admits to it. Bad news for Brooke Gladstone. You're getting creep shotted by Michael every time you walk around Park Slope. Oh, I'm always excited when I see Brooke Gladstone from on the media on the

street, but I know her. I've been introduced to her. It's a normal thing for me to say. She's my neighbor. Now I'm curious, what was I doing when you were attempting to take pictures? Was I in my bedroom sleeping? No. If I'm right that it was you, then you were walking through Grand Army Plaza. Walking fast, like as part of my immortality project by getting some exercise, because that's the only time I get over there. Yes. It had the look of an immortality exercise. Good. Well, it's working for me and i hope it's working for you as well back to your brownstone in park slope brooklyn the firstest of world problems tomatoes on the roof michael is not

only growing them but he's also growing them along with his partner who is named it says beach here is that correct beach Beach, yes. A wonderful woman. Shout out to Beach. And that's Sam shouting out to his sister wife, Beach. But his actual wife is named? Danielle, also a wonderful woman. I hope that was part of your vows.

Yeah. All right. Danielle, Beach, and Michael are having all kinds of fun up on the roof, growing tomatoes in containers, I presume, right, Michael? Yes. And during the summer, I presume, not now during the cold winter months. In the spring and summer. Now you're just growing gourds, right? Squashes and gourds.

I'm not growing everything, but it was just last week that the first frost hit and all the plants finally died. Oh, well, then this whole issue is moot unless we're looking forward to next summer. Yeah, we are litigating about next summer. I'm glad we're getting this done and time for you to prepare. So what's the setup? You have two apartments in the Brownstone. Is that right? Yes. My wife and I are on the bottom two floors and Sam and Danny are on the top two floors. Cool. And then there's this roof. You sent in some evidence, some photos of the roof. Let's take it to the rooftops and take a look. All these photos will be available on the Judge John Hodgman page at MaximumFun.org,

as well as on our Instagram page, which is at Judge John Hodgman on Instagram. You sent in some pictures of different things you've made with tomatoes that I presume you've grown, but I want to look at the rooftop itself here because this is the real point of contention. By the way, the pizzas and the salads that you made with the tomatoes look very delicious. They're the ones on Instagram that are going to get all the likes because they're food. Rooftop Instagram is not quite as vibrant. Despite the efforts of the editors of the Daily Bugle. Well, really, the Daily Bugle has one editor, Jane Jonah Jameson.

Yeah. He's really, he's always getting pictures of rooftops looking for that Spider-Man. Well, he's got that star photographer, Peter Parker. Yeah. He's always crawling around on roofs for some reason. Okay. So here is your rooftop. Not only can I see four containers in which you are growing tomatoes,

but I can also see in the distance a slightly different kind of urban garden, which is the roof of the Barclays Center, which is where the Brooklyn Nets play basketball. One of the fun things about the Barclays Center is its roof is covered in grass to make it look somewhat less offensive to the neighborhood. So I can basically triangulate exactly where you live. So now I will be outside of your apartment taking photos of you when you come out. That was our hope all along. We have a before and after. We have just at the beginning of planting season. And then we have

the luscious growth of these beautiful tomato plants. Quite a few staked plants in these containers. How many tomato plants are you planting here, Michael? There are eight tomato plants. So two per container. Correct. And when did you start doing this? And was last summer the first summer you've done it, or have you done it many times before? Last summer was the first summer. We had previously tried to grow cherry tomatoes in our backyard, but it doesn't get much sunlight, and it wasn't that successful,

and there are rats that like to munch on the tomatoes. So we thought that the roof might work better. And I would say in the early spring, we started trying to figure out how it might work. And then everything was up and assembled by maybe mid-May. And was your experiment successful? Did you get good tomatoes? I've never grown anything in my life, at least not successfully. And it was really surpassed my expectations. Not all, I mean, the tomatoes varied. Some of them were very, very good. Some of them were fine. But overall, yeah, I'd say it was a great success. Tomatoes are always like that. Tomatoes are that way. Some of them are good. Some are not that

good. They're picky. Anyway, here you have some photos of your tomatoes. It looks like you got some heirloom varietals here, some greenish heirloom varietals. You got some cherry tomatoes and some, just some straight up red tomatoes. They look pretty good to me. Also that you have these other ones that you have taken a photo of that are kind of green and red. What are those guys? I think that you're looking at Cherokee purples. Cherokee purples. What are those? If you're talking about the tomatoes that have like the dark greenish top and the red bottoms, just an heirloom variety. They're very sweet. And those I think were some of the more successful ones that came out. Fantastic. What were the other names of your tomatoes? I'm so glad that you asked. Black Creme. We had some

German Johnsons, some Sungolds, some Red Zebras, some super sweet 100s, some Husky Red Cherries, and some Candies Old Yellow. They were all delicious. All of this seems like a terrific outcome. And you even just acknowledged that they were delicious tomatoes. And they look pretty good. Of course, you can't judge a tomato by looking at it. Its ripeness is much better determined by the amount of fragrant tomatoey smell it gives off.

And if it's heavy for its size and obviously a little bit soft to the touch. That's how I pick them. But even then, as I mentioned before, tomatoes are a**hole. Even then, they might not taste good. Stipulated, they were delicious. I had them myself, though I had no entitlement to the tomatoes. And I said that up front because I didn I had no entitlement to the tomatoes. And I said that upfront because I didn't want to take part in the project. They graciously made some, you know,

tomatoes available to me and they were delicious. So what is the nature of the dispute, Sam? Have you ever been up on this roof? First off, I want to say it's like we can debate some of what Mike has to say here and some of what's been discussed, but it is a general comment. I want to say that characteristic of Mike's endless grievance complex, he has completely misdescribed the actual dispute here, which is to say you started this podcast by saying that we have a shared rooftop

on which Mike grew tomatoes and I never went on the roof. Allow me to rephrase that. We don't have a shared rooftop. It's my wife and my rooftop. Excuse me just for a second, Sam. Jesse Thorne, I'm just going to let this guy talk for a while and I'm going to take a 10 minute break. You want to go for a walk? Yes. I'm going to go walk over to Grand Army Plaza and back and get my steps in. And then maybe I'll listen back to the tape of what Sam said. Okay. Go ahead, Sam. Okay. We don't have a shared rooftop. It's our rooftop. The only way to get to this rooftop is through my wife in my apartment. It's not that

Mike was growing tomatoes. It's that it was a shared group project. It just only feels like it's Mike's project to everyone else because that's what happens when you have a quote-unquote shared project with Mike. And lastly, it's not that I never went up on the roof. I went up on the roof multiple times this summer, unbidden, to bring Mike water on hot days and be social and try to provide some positivity about these damn tomatoes so that Mike would finally be happy. Mike's immortality project is trying to enlist you in his ongoing stream of mediocre personal fan fiction. And then if he can't do so, launching on these endless grievances about it and ultimately taking you to podcast court. So given that I've set the record straight a little bit on what we're

ultimately talking about, some additional new facts that I imagine were not included in the submission when he submitted our case to this honorable court. Number one, in May of this year, my wife and I had just had a baby. I mean, you know, giving appropriate credit where it's due, she had had the baby. We have a two and a half month old. We've never been more tired in our life. And in a summer where New York City set like 15 heat records, Mike's plan is let's create a project that is totally unnecessary because in Brooklyn, you can't walk 10 feet without tripping over a farmer's market. Let's create a project where we go on the exposed roof in 100 degree heat that is dangerous. That was my real objection here.

was my real objection here. I was worried about danger and do what will be a perfectly miserable activity, which is, as you said, trying to grow, what do you call them, or whatever. Tomatoes are fickle, unforgiving plants, which I know because my mother is a horticulturalist and she grew tomatoes my whole life. So I know how disappointing they can be, even if you do everything right. And I've had to contribute to many failed tomato projects in the past, right? So it's go up on 100 degree heat when you've never been more tired because you've been awake at three in the morning taking care of a screaming baby to go on a dangerous roof that is unsecured. You'll see that in the pictures, the tomatoes are like two feet away from the edge where

you face certain death if you slip. And by the way, in each of the last two years, I've had like major surgery and I'm not The tomatoes are like two feet away from the edge where you face certain death if you slip. And by the way, in each of the last two years, I've had like major surgery and I'm not supposed to overexert myself, including lifting heavy things, especially lifting heavy things. So this project would be about lifting heavy things up to the roof. And then the additional thing I would add is just that as Mike admitted, when he and I were discussing this before the podcast, just based on the natural, reasonable dynamics of who lives where, there would be natural inherent pressure for me to do more than my fair share of this project if I were to be a part of it, because we would be up right, you know, one floor below the roof. Mike would be four floors below. My wife, who was still recovering from having a baby, would, of course, you know, prefer that I go up on the roof and deal with this.

And I completely see why she would want that in that case. And so signing on to a system where I would be directly below the tomatoes and he would be four flights of stairs away, I knew, and Mike has admitted, it wouldn't have been enough just to sign on to the tomato project. It would be a, give him a cookie. He would ask for a glass of milk and then demand the glass of milk and then take you on podcast court about the glass of milk. Given that Mike and I already live directly next to each other and have any number of, you know, shared projects or whatever going on at a given time, I didn't need this particular project to define my summer.

Judge Hodgman, how was your walk? Oh, I just got back. I walked over to Grand Army Plaza, posed for some photos with some listeners and, listeners. And the farmer's market is there, so I got some great tomatoes and I came back. Did Sam win yet or what? I wasn't really paying attention either. I was appointed guardian of the Garden of Peaches of Immortality. I ate all three of the peaches. The first two gave me powers. The third one gave me immortality. Then I got drunk on heavenly wine and I broke into Sun Tzu's alchemy laboratory and stole the pills of immortality. And of course, glug, glug, down the hatch they go.

Anyway, good news is I can't die and I have powers. Well done. I think your side mission was much more successful than mine. Let's take a quick recess. We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman Podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman Podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org, and they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this

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Can I add one more thing? One question? No, you may not. No. Here you rest your case, Sam. Sam, you want to say more things? Sam, I think that I offered you ample time to make your case. Frankly, astonished by the ampleness of the time that you took.

Zero shame or self-consciousness. You just went for it. It was an incredible monologue in the history of a podcast with a lot of white dudes monologuing. So well done. Here's what I will say. I did not go to the farmer's market. I did listen to everything he had to say. And you made some very valid and compelling points and brings in a lot of different possible

cruxes for us to unpack here. On the one hand, you point out that this is indeed a unfinished roof. It is not a enclosed roof deck. There is danger involved. There are geographical sort of, I guess, architectural considerations as to how the roof is accessed and whether that is intrusive to you in the life of your new young family. There is childhood trauma that you have woven into the story, as well as physical trauma of your mysterious surgeries. And finally, and most interesting to me, accusations of bad faith against your roommate and an ostensible friend, Michael, that he is somehow trying to work me into his fan fiction. Sam, can you elaborate on that, please? Oh, well, the simplest way would just be to say

this dispute that he submitted to the podcast is the fifth time he's applied to have the podcast hear one of his disputes. So now you and the audience at home gets the joy of being drafted into his fan fiction. We are all here for Mike to have a forum for his grievance. Do you accuse the grievance of being ginned up and fake? Not fake because he genuinely feels these things. You know, Mike is a feeler. You know, we all want to give him the happiness that he so, you know, like desperately craves, but it's just you can't satisfy him. There's always a next thing, which it is a privilege to have Mike in your life. He is filling your life with wonderful activities that he contributes to and takes a real leadership role in.

But you just can't sign on to the endless stream. You have to draw some lines somewhere. We already live directly next to each other. You have to draw some lines somewhere. We already live directly next to each other. You know, I got to draw the line somewhere. John, there are two types of people. Feelers and guys with something to say. Okay. You literally live on top of Mike.

Is that correct, Sam? Do I understand that? Before you start talking about what a great guy Mike is, I need to interrogate this a little bit. Because if there's one thing that annoys me more than creep shotters like Sam, it's dudes who just want to be on a podcast. Is that you, Mike? You've been accused of applying cases to this podcast multiple times. Is that true? I think four times. This being the fourth?

Yes. Now, I read all of the petitions to this court myself. You email me at Hodgman at MaximumFund.org if you want to submit a case or go to MaximumFund.org slash JJHO. I read them all, but that doesn't mean that I'm always remembering the names as they come through. So I did not know that you had petitioned the court multiple times, which is a real red flag for me, I must say, Mike. One of the cardinal pieces of settled law is don't look for disputes just to get on a podcast. What were your other disputes that you sent in? Were they all with Sam? No, only one was with Sam.

Tell me some of the other ones. See if I remember them. There was one about where my friend group from law school should go on our annual man weekend trip. Yeah, I can tell why I didn't hear that one. You know what? I'll settle them all for you right now. Okay. I wanted to go to, I believe, the Catskills. You wanted to go to the Catskills? Yes. Where did they want to go?

Believe Denver? Yeah, they were correct. Actually, you know what? I take it back, Mike. You were right on that one. Colorado is better than the Catskills. I had one miserable night in Denver, so I guess I'm biased, but I'm rolling it in your favor anyway, Mike. Catskills. Next. But a special shout out to Sweet Action Ice Cream in Denver, one of the official ice cream stores of Maximum Fun. Oh, well, I didn't know that. Then they were right and you're wrong mike sorry thank you for that information all right mike next one uh oh this

is so this is embarrassing at this point yeah that's how i've designed it to be clear i submitted two of them at the same time about five years ago and two of them at the same time this summer thank you for listening and hanging in there over the years. This is essentially your roundabout way of getting a creep shot of me. I suppose you could put it that way. The way I would phrase it is that I'm a fan of the podcast, would love to be on the podcast, and any of us in our personal lives, I think, have had four valid disputes over the course of five years that they might want a higher internet power to adjudicate if it was a

possibility. So yeah, I'm not ashamed of it. What are the other two that haven't mentioned yet? You submitted them five years ago at the same time? The other from five years ago was I had placed a slap bet with a friend of mine, and I ended up with the right to slap him four times. And I was asking you to determine that one failed slap attempt did not count against my four allotted slaps. Yeah. No, don't hit people. That's my answer. No slap bets.

How old are you? Now or then. If that's a big enough difference to matter, you're probably not old enough to be on this podcast right now i'm 34 now you're 29 years old slap bets i don't know what slap bets are but if it involves you slapping someone else as part of a youthful prank among friends i would say you're definitely too old to be doing that now. Stop trying to regain your youth. Your immortality project is not working if you're doing that. Okay, next. What's the final one?

My wife is a very good whistler and has a number of different kinds of whistles. One whistle that she does mindlessly is kind of through her teeth. It's this very tinny, ghostly sounding whistle. I asked that she limit that particular kind of whistling to a, I forget exactly what I asked for. Wait a minute. Didn't we hear that one? No. All right. You would remember. I actually remember that petition. And does your wife still do this whistle? Yes. I'm going to withhold judgment. Is she available now? She's not with you.

No, she's at work. I'm going to withhold judgment. Is she available now? She's not with you. No, she's at work, I'm afraid. I will withhold judgment until you can send in a sample of the whistle, and we will adjudicate it on a docket later on. Wow, look at that. You got two bites of the tomato. You're here now, and you're on the docket. This must be the most thrilling day of your life, Mike. It's not the least thrilling day of my life.

Thank you. Thanks very much. So, Sam, Mike is full of mischief, isn't he? He is. It is one of the many wonderful parts of Mike. How long have you known each other? About a decade. Were you involved in any slap bets?

No. I tend to stay away from the slap bets or the like sneaking up on someone to rip a piece of hair off their arm or like you know those sorts of things wait a minute is that something mike does yes well it's not it's it's not that simple i'm sure it's not that simple it never is what's the game where you tear a piece of hair off of someone's arm i will answer that before i do could i say one thing i'll allow it i'm just a little bit disturbed that sam's been able to very quickly turn this into an interrogation of everything that's wrong with me regardless of has any nexus to this dispute mike

mike you brought it upon yourself this is your your dream. This is what you wanted, Mike. You wanted to be judged. I can't blame it if Sam is bringing up compelling evidence to suggest that your mischief may be actually mean-spirited. Let's hear it. The game is a game that my brother and I play, both of us to the other, called Evens or Odds, where you pull hairs out of someone's usually arm and

the other person has to guess if he pulled out an even number or an odd number and if they are right they get to punch you and if they are wrong then you get to punch them, and if they are wrong, then you get to punch them. Wow, I've never been happier to be an only child in my life. I have to say, at first I was like, this is actually an incredibly old game. Guessing even her odd hair is being pulled off the arm. Because it's random. But then you lost me at the punching. No punching or slapping. You're 34 years old, Mike.

Hang on a second. has mike ever punched slapped or pulled hair out of your arm no because i communicated early on that i wasn't going to be a part of that game he tried to rope you in though didn't he he did and i think you hit on a real point when you said like, it's just random how many hairs come off the arm. The point of these things, you know, like nominally, the point is to grow tomatoes or to guess the right number of hairs. But really, it's just about him inflicting misery upon you and being indifferent to that misery or finding your misery entertaining. Like you use the word mean spirited. He's not mean spirited. He's the least mean spirited person alive. He just finds your misery entertaining. Yes, he just finds your misery entertaining. Like you use the word mean-spirited. He's not mean-spirited. He's the least mean-spirited person alive. He just finds your misery entertaining. Yes, he just finds your misery entertaining. We're not talking about true misery, right? Right. But, you know, it's misery enough that you end up wanting to draw the line on whether you want to sign up to the endless game

of having hair ripped off your arm by surprise. So you get to take a guess as to whether you get punched. Just on that arm hair punching game, Mike, when was the last time you played this? I'm sure it was this year, but I don't recall specifically. With whom did you play it? I only play it with my brother. Where's your brother in this world? Is your brother named Jeb? No, he's named Ben and he lives in Brooklyn.

So you have your brother in your life. You still close? Very. I'm just trying to ascertain if this has anything to do with trying to recruit your friend Sam into the brother position for you. No, I don't think that it does. you no i don't think that it does i kind of think that sam has in an effort to make a compelling argument really misstated my motivation for wanting him to go on the roof to look at the tomatoes let's get to the what you want out of this i mean obviously you've already gotten what you want you hijacked my podcast for your own personal thrill you basically pulled hairs out of my arm

and made me punch myself. You won in that regard. But now if I were to rule in your favor, Mike, and I might, what would you have me rule? I would have you rule that once a week for one minute, Sam has to go on the roof and keeping a wide berth of the edge, let me show him the tomatoes. That is all that I want. I want no other participation from Sam in the tomato project. I just want him to actively admire and acknowledge the work that everyone else that lives in our shared brownstone has done to create the tomatoes that he eats. Sam, how does Mike get up on the roof?

Does he have to use your baby's crib as a footstool to get up through a trap door? Or what's the access point? Oh, I wish it was as simple as using our baby's crib to get up there. So he needs to come through the front door of our apartment, go through the first level, get to the second level, then move this big sort of like standing shelf thing we have that holds a lot of our towels and laundry and stuff. Move that into the middle of the hallway. We'll come back to that. I guarantee you we will not come back to that. You then can't get into the baby's room. So if you have a crying baby with a poop filled

diaper and Mike's up on the roof, you can't actually get through the hallway to go change your baby. You know what? I stand corrected. I'm glad we came back to that because it's even worse than I thought in terms of its intrusiveness. Mike, is there any other place you can move that cabinet or whatever it is such that you're not essentially locking a baby in a room? Certainly, it does not lock the baby in the room. Certainly, it does not lock the baby in the room. There is plenty of room to put the wire shelf against the wall where someone can slip by and easily get into the baby's room. I think that's a mischaracterization. And yet, when I look here on the petition, Sam, you are not asking that no tomatoes be grown next summer. Even though this is wildly intrusive and the project obviously drives you to distraction.

No, I want him to be happy. And we supported the project. We spent hundreds of dollars in support of this project. Like I said, I went on the roof and brought him water. There isn't really a real like it. I don't even know what he can say. I didn't actually do other than like be a part of team enthusiasm for this. But no, if I have a thing I request, I hope they have a wonderful time with the tomatoes next year. I mean, at a general level, I hope Mike learns to accept no for an answer, but more specifically at any time between now and next tomato season, when we are playing a board game and someone picks Mike to take a card from him, Mike cannot debate or object or pout or put any preconditions. He just has to wordlessly lift his cards and allow you to take a card if you are otherwise allowed according to the rules of the

game. I sense you're referring to some other longstanding dispute and story that we don't have full time for. But as punitive damages, you would like me to order that? Yes. I say. All right. Your Honor, so Sam has gotten quite an opportunity to sort of describe my character. And I think that there's a crucial second part of the story, which is Sam's true objection or the true motivation for not wanting to go onto the roof. And that, I think, needs to be stated.

So... No. We started 40 minutes ago. Now we are ending. How much of that time has been Sam? You know what? I've heard everything I need to in order to make my verdict. I'm going to...

No, no, please, Your Honor. Please, please. I'm going up on my roof to tend to my garden. I'll be back in a moment with my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Sam, how are you feeling about your chances? You know, I don't want to assume any outcome here. I really just hope Mike is happy.

I think it's the first time anyone has ever tried to win one of our cases through filibuster. Do you have any other parliamentary procedure tricks up your sleeve? You know, I submit to the court's judgment and I hope that that relief I asked for about Mike not going into histrionics when someone tries to take a card from him gets ordered because that would not only be a ray of sunshine in my life, it would really help any number of our other friends who have to deal with this. Mike, how are you feeling? Honestly, I'm feeling a little bit frustrated. Not great about my chances because I don't think I got a chance to really state any kind of an argument at all. I guess we'll see and I have to throw

myself on the mercy of the court. But if the judge would be willing to hear a very short argument from me, I would be grateful. If not, so be it. Were you elected president and were your party to retain control of the Senate, would you eliminate the filibuster? I certainly would. We'll be back in just a second

with Judge John Hodgman's ruling. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know that learning, the experience of learning causes a sound to happen? Let's hear the sound. Yep. That's the sound of you learning a new language with Babbel. We're talking about quick 10 minute lessons crafted by over 200 language experts that can help you start speaking a new language in as little as one, two, three weeks. Let's hear that sound. Babbel's tips and tools are approachable, accessible, rooted in real-life situations,

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his ruling. Boy, you guys have fun in your house that you share. I mean, I think that even though I've given you both a little bit of a rough time, I guess a part of me is a little jealous that I'm not sharing a house with my best friends and having beers and playing board games and having projects and stuff. Seems like it's fun. And I think you guys genuinely care about each other and like each other. And honestly, Sam's argument, he just wants Mike to be happy. And yet Mike seems incapable of being completely happy. That's an interesting friend dynamic that is hard to resolve. At first, I thought that this

was clearly a situation where Mike grew up slapping and punching and pulling and hurting his brother with love. Well, I guess his brother's probably not in his life anymore. And he's just, he's looking at the same kind of rough housey relationship he used to have with his genuine brother but that's not the case you still have your brother you still pull his hairs out you still have fun with him so i think that instead that this is a situation that is just intrinsic to mike mike mike likes projects mike likes mixing it up. Mike likes causing a stir. I see Sam's point. It's not that Mike isn't capable of happiness. He grew some tomatoes with his friends and his wife, Beach, and his friend, Danielle. And the outcome was great. And those are some very happy making tomatoes. But Mike wants to recruit Sam into this project

more deeply. Wouldn't you say that's true, Mike? No. Oh boy. All right. Say what you're going to say, Mike. Jesse, I'm going to go for a walk. How I feel when Sam refuses to go and look at the tomatoes, which he has done all but one time, is kind of like when you're a kid and you've done a magic trick and you want your parents to acknowledge it and you can't get their intention. But in this case, it's like the parents enjoy your franticness and enjoy your discomfort and revel in it. I think, hopefully, you've gotten from Sam's tone of voice and general demeanor

that he enjoys a good ribbing, and I think that's kind of what this is. And I can tell you that I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true. You said two things that are demonstrably false. One, clearly Sam does not enjoy the ribbing. Sam is asking you to stop insisting that he look at these tomatoes. Sam is saying, I want him to be happy. I just don't want to be involved. And that's perfectly reasonable to you're not a kid, right? You're not a kid. You're 34 years old. What's happening in your relationship, your immortality project game is incredible. You're sharing a house with a friend couple as though you are just moved to New York or are

still in college. You're drinking beers and you're playing games and you're having fun. And it's wonderful. The reason I envy you is that you're 34 and can still pull this off. And I'm 48 and I can't. My immortality project, I hate to tell you this, is going to fail. And so is yours. Sam has moved on in his life. He's got a child now. The thing that happens when your best friends have children is is they go into separate lives no matter how close your proximity is this could not be i'm sure there are there are layers within layers within layers i mean sam's got childhood mother tomato trauma that he's dealing with here and surgeries and i'm sure there are all kinds of different layers that are going on

and mind games that you're playing with each other and with me. Well, this ultimately comes down to a settled law in the court of Judge John Hodgman. People like what they like. You like those tomatoes and you like doing them and you like driving Sam a little bit crazy about them because it's fun for you because it's like pulling out hairs from his arm. And Sam doesn't Sam. Oh, I'm so mad. Sam doesn't like the tomatoes. He doesn't like what you like. You are only going to get more and more appropriately,

maturely individuated as you get older. And that's fine. You should be lucky that Sam does not mind that he and your wife and his wife all go trundling up to the roof to plant tomatoes. It may be that it's the only time he gets to feel left alone. But in any case, no, he goes up there whenever he wants he's an independent human being who has agency you cannot force him to go and be a part of a project that he has no interest in being a

part of you have to let him eat some of the tomatoes because you're a friend friends let friends be alone when they need to be alone. All of that said, all of that is true. And obviously, obviously, I find very strongly in my heart in Sam's favor. But in honor of you, Mike, I'm going to actually let the final outcome and the final verdict be decided by arm hair pulling out. I'm going to pull out some arm hairs. And each of you is going to guess whether it's evens or odd. And whoever gets it right wins.

You're going to guess first, Sam. Okay. Right? Because obviously I'm biased in your favor. This is the worst. One time when I was a kid, my cousin Jason pulled out a hank of my hair and lit it on fire with a lighter in front of me and laughed at me. It was the worst. I don't think that's fun.

Don't slap people. Don't pull out hairs. Ow! Sam sam what's your guess odds that means you're even mike you can win if you can guess the actual number four wrong and wrong odds win it was one hair wasn't going for it but it's just my hairs are very fine they hang in there so i find in sam's favor sorry mike i tried to give you a chance with your own brutal form of justice but now you get a punch sam gets the win this is the sound of a gavel judge sean hodgman rules that is all do i get the card thing

the prayer for relief about the board game? No. No one gets everything they want in this life. And then we die. There is no immortality project. But I'm glad you're both here. Have fun on the roof and in your house. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Sam, how are you feeling? I am feeling like this court has demonstrated its wisdom yet again. Michael, how do you feel? I don't feel good, Aleph. I appreciate the court's wisdom. I think that with the information that was presented, the court made the right decision. I do not believe that the court heard. I don't believe that all the evidence was presented. The latest grievance, right? It's just the latest grievance. Sam, don't you dare try and filibuster

again. Michael, Sam, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I-R. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there? Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh,

then you're on the go. Hey, Judge Sean Hodgman listeners, it is Bailiff Jesse. I am going to say something now. It's a little sad. So last weekend, I got a call from one of my oldest friends in the world, and it was very bad news. It was news that a friend of ours, my friend Evan, who had been one of my best buds since we were two years old and through our entire childhoods, a guy who went to preschool and elementary school and high school with me had died. He overdosed, was found in his home, and I didn't, and no one I've talked to knew he was even using, and it's a horrifically sad situation. Evan was a really special guy, brilliantly gifted artist, renowned graffiti artist. He wrote Spesh. He was also just an absolute sweetheart joy of a kid and a man. I don't know. For some reason, I've been thinking a lot about playing GoBots with him when we were in preschool together.

But, you know, he also was the guy with all the Weird Al Yankovic tapes. And yeah, just the kind of guy that everyone loved and was happy to see. And he was that through his entire life. So anyway, we wanted to do something to honor him that was productive. So I talked to a friend who's a comic here in Los Angeles who worked in the recovery field and is, in fact, himself in recovery. He worked in recovery for many, many years. And I asked him who in the San Francisco Bay Area

where Evan lived and where he and I grew up is absolutely, without peer, wonderful working with people with addictions. And he recommended an organization called the Homeless Youth Alliance. They work with homeless youth, not just ones who are addicted, but they meet everybody where they're at and help them get the pieces together that allow them to have a full and healthy and long and productive life. They've been really kind. They're going to put together a fund to honor Evan. And you can find the URL at MaximumFund.org slash Evan. Bonus, you get to see a picture of me looking like a doofus as a 15-year-old goofing around with my goofy buddy Evan. Maximum Fund is going to make a donation of

$5,000 to the fund. I just wanted it to be enough money that it really felt like it was something. And I hope that you'll join me, even if it's $5 or $6, $20, whatever you might have. It goes directly to serve homeless youth. And it also is a testament to this man who brought a lot of light into people's lives. I think he left the world better than he found it. I think he did a lot with his life, but I think this is a great way to honor him as a person and a friend and, you know, all of that stuff. So any amount I would really appreciate. Go to MaximumFun.org slash Evan and you'll find the link there. And all you do is just click on that link, make your donation and mention that it's in honor of Evan in the comment.

Thanks so much. Another Judge John Hodgman case in the books. Thanks so much. and at Hodgman. And in fact, I would encourage you to do so. It's not just an option for you. It's a recommended option. Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets. Hashtag JJHO. I always love to see what people have to say about the show. And check out the Maximum Fun subreddit at MaximumFun.reddit.com to chat about this episode.

We're on Instagram at Judge John Hodgman, where you can find evidence from all of our cases as well as other fun stuff. This week's episode was recorded by Rob O'Leary at the Cutting Room Studios. Our episode produced by Hannah Smith, edited by Jesus Ambrosio. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Carrie says, I would like an injunction against my husband. He insists on calling

medications by their generic names instead of brand names, even when they're much longer or more difficult to say. For example, diphenhydramine instead of Benadryl or acetaminophen instead of Tylenol. What say you, Judge Hodgman? I don't know how Carrie lives with this person. That's an incredibly annoying thing to do. And yet, I like the fact that he knows the generic names of all the medications. Do you think he also refers to all flora and fauna by their Latin names? Yes. I order him to keep this to a minimum.

And when he says diphenhydramine, he has to say it like a robot. That's my order. I have to go to CVS to get more diphenhydramine. Acetaminophen. That's it for this week's episode. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO or email Hodgman at MaximumFun.org.

No case too small. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. That is all. MaximumFun.org Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Audience supported. Acidaminofan! Acidaminofan!