Judge John Hodgman - Van Freaks Roadshow in Washington DC

Episode Date: July 17, 2024

If you found mice in your toaster, would you ever replace it? Or simply throw it away and live toaster-less for the rest of your life? Would you lick a 50-year-old cured ham? Did a Red Sox fan curse the 2000 Presidential Election? Answers to these disputes and more recorded in front of a LIVE Washington DC audience on the Van Freaks Roadshow! With Leila Dunbar of GBH's Antiques Roadshow and Griffin & Rachel McElroy of the Wonderful podcast!We are on TikTok and YouTube! Follow us on both @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman.Thanks to reddit user u/thishenryjames for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com! Judge John Hodgman: Road Court! Tickets are on sale NOW! For dates and more information, go to maximumfun.org/events.

Welcome to the Judge John Hatchman podcast. I'm Bill of Jesse Thorne and with me, of course, Judge John Hatchman. This week's episode was recorded live in Washington, D.C. That's our nation's capital and we had some amazing litigants talking about mice, baseball, men's accessories. That's the big three for me, by the way. Mice, baseball, and men's accessories. We also got to talk to our friends and yours,

Griffin and Rachel McElroy from the Wonderful Podcast, among other fine McElroy products. And we had Leela Dunbar from GBH's Auntie Croach Show in the house, who appraised a very old ham. Oh, that ham was so old and I'm gonna tell you something, I put my mouth on it. Oh my gosh, this was one of the most, look, I always have a great time in Washington, DC.

It's my mom's hometown, I spent a lot of time there. I live there myself on my own several times. I spent a lot of time there as a kid. My relatives get to come out to the show. I love all of that. And you know, I like to go to the National Portrait Gallery, John. I know you love it.

You know how I feel about those portraits. You love those national portraits. Got to get in on those portraits. But it is, this was an especially special one with the ham coming out on stage with Rachel and Griffin, two of our favorite people in the entire world. Let's get to the stage of the Lincoln Theater. Get me that ham. -♪ Banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging on doorbell, banging Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please welcome to the stage, Annie and Pete. Tonight's case, Breville's Advocate. Annie brings the case against her husband, Pete. They got rid of their toaster over the summer. Pete wants a new one. Annie says, never again. Who's right, who's wrong, only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Mary's on the blacktop, there's a husband in the doghouse. In the middle of a shakedown, I got quiet as a church mouse. Blow and blow wherever you may go. Put on your overcoat and take me away you gotta take me on into the night take me on into the night blow me away blow me away bail if jesse th, please swear them in. Every stop on the tour. Okay.

I don't know what you mean. I'm just picking a different cultural reference every time. Whatever comes to me. Annie and Pete, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God or whatever? Yes. I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling despite the fact that he's already pretty toasted, brah? I do. I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. It's been a long time since I've had a five-hour energy drink. Yeah. Why was I thinking? It's a lot of hours, many more hours than the course of our program runs. My favorite part of that cultural reference was when I was singing it, I was watching the bar at the back of the theater slowly close the iron gates as though there was a problem brewing.

We may all be locked in here forever now. Annie and Pete, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment and one of your favorites, can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered this courtroom? Let's try Annie. What's your guess?

I am pretty sure it is a song by Tom Waits. Oh, interesting. I guess that's a possibility. I hadn't thought of that. I mean, it would be a real stunner. Any particular song that you had in mind?

Alas, no. OK, that's not a Tom Waits song, but fine. You could just say like something about tin cans or whatever. Alas, no! The rain has poured into my trumpet! Go ahead. I can't remember this song, but yeah, it's definitely a Tom Waits song. Are you Tom Waits? No.

I mean, let the record show you're wearing a sort of paper voice cap. Right, I think. And you have a gruff and gravelly voice. Yeah, thank you. Any guests whatsoever? No. Okay, it was kind of a gimme. Blow Wind Blow was the name of that song by Tom Waits, Frank's Wild Years.

I'm singing Tom Waits songs every stop on this tour because I love Tom Waits and it annoys my friend Jesse. So who seeks justice in my court? I do your honor. Annie, what is the nature of your dispute? Okay, so we live in 100 year old row home in Baltimore. Okay, thank you for making the trip. Oh, it's our pleasure. So we regularly experience mouse

problems. And usually they're only in the winter but after our beloved 20 year old cat passed away in July thank you very much so we start what was the name of your cat who passed away his name was mr. cat mm-hmm awesome name he was the best Wow he was the best that's incredible thank you and he passed away in July yes Are you thinking about getting another pet sometime? We actually so we actually do have two cats now We did get two cats. Wow, you moved on fast. I know I know well So there's a reason it was because of what I'm about to tell you. Yeah What are the names of the new cats?

Okay Their names are the Dread Pirate Morton McSkallywag. He has one eye. And the other one's name is Potato. Yeah, no notes on that one. You have a guess. Yeah, no notes on that one. You have a guess. Why did you need to dance on Mr. Cat's grave so swiftly and get these two new cats?

The mice? Was that the issue? Yes, because immediately after Mr. Cat passed away, we had a scourge of mice. I see. And they were everywhere. Really? Yes. For example, in any appliances? I see. And they were everywhere. Really? Yes.

For example, in any appliances? They were in the toaster. They were in the toaster. Wait, hold on. So I know what it is to be in a toaster. But like, toast is in a toaster often. When you say there were mice in the toaster, how do you know that fact? Because... You inferred it, right? You tell me that you inferred it. No, no. We saw them

walking on the toaster and we saw their little tails sticking out of the little slot where you pull the lever down to toast your toast, they're little tails sticking out. That's pretty damning evidence. I must say. I don't know how those mice would have faked it otherwise. That's probably real mouse tails. Why didn't you just hit the lever right then? Boom.

Problem solved. Yeah, I feel like it's evidence. I'm a vegetarian. Okay. So I, we, that's the other part of the issue. We only use the humane live traps. So I'm transporting these mice to the park daily. I'm catching them and driving them in my car.

Do you know what's not a humane mouse trap? A cat? Yes. Yeah. But that's natural. Fair enough. Mandatory carnivores, you can't get in their way, they're gonna eat the mice. Yeah. They're gonna bring them to you and serve and they offer them to you for your breakfast

and teach you how to hunt. Yeah. Do they leave mice for you anywhere? Not yet. It's not a possibility that Mr. Cat left a mouse in the toaster as a treat for you, right? I mean, not what, no. Perhaps it's ghost. Perhaps. Yeah. Wait, Wait Annie are you telling me that the one-eyed cat and the cat named potato aren't the best mousers? I think they're acting as a deterrent. I think just like their their presence. Yeah. Yeah, because since we got them I will admit since we got them We have not seen any evidence either. No mouse sign? No mouse sign.

Yeah, okay, I understand. Pete's threw superior firepower. Yes. Got rid of the toaster, obviously. I threw away the toaster. Did not replace it. Did not replace it. Got the cats.

Yes. Everything's in equilibrium. Yes. Except for you, Pete. You've got an issue because you love toast so much. I'm a huge fan of toast. Yes. Make a note that Pete is a huge fan of toast. So noted. All right. Thank you.

Get that vision. I've entered an entry into the Toast Journal. Thank you. I wanted that on the record. So what is your what is your response to this dispute? What is your what is your counter complaint? You want a toaster? Yeah. Now that we have the cats, why not just get a toaster? Why not, indeed, Annie?

Because we saw several mice. When you see one mouse, there's at least 10 mice. How could we ever be confident that there had not been mice in the toaster? How can you be confident that there are not mice currently in your oven or in your couch or in your hair right now? How do you know I didn't sneak a mouse in there when you were coming on stage?

That is true. I couldn't have done it, I was out here, but our producer Laura might have done it for a joke. That is true, but when you use an oven, you generally use some kind of baking tray or baking dish. When you use the toaster, you're just putting your bread or your bagel right in there. Right. And there are so many terrible mouse-borne illnesses that can be aerosolized.

You don't need to convince me that I don't want to make bread in a toaster where a mouse is shat. Yes. Well, I did a lot of research. You don't need to convince me that I don't want to make bread in a toaster where a mouse is shat. Yes. Well, I did a lot of research. I'm not a disease denier. You're just saying there's no way to secure the toaster from... There's no way to secure the toaster. I did a lot of online shopping research into containers that could go around a toaster,

but they're all fabric, which just seems pointless. They're called toaster cozies. Yeah, yeah. And I don't really understand why that would be a thing because the mouse would just go right through that. Pete, how is not having, when did you get rid of the toaster, Pete? Or when did Annie get rid of the toaster, I should say?

Probably mid-July, I i would think and was it a traumatic event for you no it was not i was not there right right you just came home and all of a sudden where's the toaster yeah there was there was just a square a square spot of crumbs on the counter that had never been cleaned you were at work and you suddenly felt a sick emptiness in the pit of your stomach where toast should be. How is not having a toaster affected your life? Well, I have a, I work for the airline, so I have a very strange schedule.

So toast in the morning. Does that mean you're a spy? No. Okay. Just thought maybe. No. But yeah, I just, it's a quick, easy breakfast. Pop some bread in there, put it on a paper towel. Right. And now you're not having any breakfast?

Sometimes no. Sometimes I eat just raw bread. I think that's like some sort of like some sort of weirdo. Right. Wow. Yeah. I don't like it either. The risk there is that if you don't have breakfast is an important meal. If you don't have breakfast in your stomach, it's possible that the airport could be an inefficient place. Right. Exactly.

I mean, we have to fly tomorrow. I'm nervous about our flight now, knowing that you might be there messing things up because you've been eating raw bread all morning. I'll eat one extra slice for you. Annie, is there any other way to toast bread in your house? So currently what we're doing is either toasting bread in the oven or on the stovetop.

Right. And when you put it in the oven, what are you putting it on? So on a like a cookie tray with some parchment paper. What makes you think that the mice are not into that parchment paper and those trays and stuff? You're right, they can get anywhere. I know they're not on the parchment paper because the parchment paper is in the pantry and I keep an eagle eye on the pantry for mouse droppings. Sounds like a fun afternoon in your house. It's great, it's great.

I'm starting to wonder, John, if you're ready to rule in favor of getting a new toaster but one that's broken that will burn the house down. Yeah. You do not want to get a new toaster. I do not. I think that we can toast our bread adequately using the stove. People do like oven toast, Pete.

Why isn't it insufficient for you? It takes longer. It's probably energy inefficient. It generally isn't efficient, yeah. Yeah. You'd like to get a new toaster. I'd just like inefficient. Generally it's efficient. Yeah. You'd like to get a new toaster. I'd just like to get a new toaster.

Do you have your eye on one? No, I haven't. You've been up late scanning the websites, watching and drooling just thinks. No. Yeah. Imagining that you can smell the toast, that's usually a warning sign. She's a researcher.

Okay, I understand. Yeah. Why can't Pete just have his own toaster and you just don't use it? You can always have oven toast whenever you want. Have an extra 45 minutes, make a piece of toast. Laughter For two reasons.

One, I don't want him to get hantavirus either. Sure. I think that was part of your vows when you got married. It was, yeah. But also, the toaster collects crumbs, so it draws mice in. And the other thing is, like, living where we do, mice are just part of the environment, you know?

Not necessarily in our house, but in the houses around. We live in a row home, you know? So we have to make. They don't honor property lines. They do not. Yeah.? So we have to make- They don't honor property lines. They do not. And so we have to make our house as unattractive to mice as possible. So having a vessel on the counter that is full of crumbs,

you know, no matter how often we clean it, and they're very hard to clean, is just attractive to mice. So it's even, I don't want them to be- I understand your argument, but there would be strategies, right Pete, where don't want them to be distracting us. I understand your argument, but there would be strategies, right Pete, where you could keep a toaster, like for example, she doesn't believe that you're capable of cleaning a toaster. Is that true?

Our toaster was also very, it didn't have like a tray to pull out. Didn't have a crumb tray? No, it didn't have a crumb tray. When did you buy this toaster in the middle? It was a wedding gift, I think, right? Wow, you threw away a wedding gift. We didn't bake it very well, yeah. Who gave it to you? I don't remember. You don't remember. Do you think they listen to this podcast?

They probably will to this one. We mentioned we have special guests tonight. Please welcome... Annie's aunt, Mr. Potato. It's the only name I could think of in that moment. So what would you have me rule if I were to rule in your favor, Annie? I would want you to rule that we do not replace the toaster. Even if the Judge John Hodgman podcast were to offer you a brand new high class Breville brand toaster, the personal choice of both Judge John, I know it's turning into Wheel of Fortune. The personal choice of both Judge John Hodgman and Bailiff Jesse Thorne, even if we were to give you one of those, you wouldn't want it.

I would certainly be willing to compromise. Wow. She really called our bluff there. We don't have any damn toaster for you. No, I mean earlier we discussed how we should have thought of asking for one of those toasters a few weeks ago. I know, but I thought she would stick... Well, okay, interesting. Sorry. If I were to... You're expensive toasters.

Like, we're in hot water now. Yeah. Pete, if I were to rule in your favor, how would you have me rule? Um, I think we should get a toaster. I mean, it was all the... I think you've said enough, sir. I think your position is very clear.

Well argued, I dare say. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'm going to retire to my chambers. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Pete, how are you feeling about your chances of sweet, sweet toast in the morning? No idea. No idea. Annie, how are you feeling? I think I might have

hurt my chances by being willing to compromise. Did you two know there really are toaster nerds? No. Yeah, is there any toaster nerds here who love that kind of toast? It's like a Sunbeam or something from the, that was made until like the 70s and then they stopped making it. Anybody? Yeah, somebody knows. So there's a toaster nerd. You know, if there's a Judge John Hodgman show in Washington, D.C., there's a nerd of it in there.

We'll see what the judge has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. (*pounding on table*) Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. Annie, I have great sympathy for you. I have been traumatized by mouse infestation in my life, if anyone has read my book Vacation Land, still available in paperback. You will know that my mom's house, when she passed away in Western Massachusetts, that my wife is a whole human being in our own right.

When we had a young family, we would go out to this house and we would open the silverware drawers and they'd just be full of mouse turds. And our response to that was to simply quietly close them and walk away. We thought that's what living in nature was, and we were right. Those mice will come for you They are currently they might be in retreat currently because of potato and dread pirate What's the name again Morton McCalliwag right of course how could I forget? The dread pirate Morton McCalliwag and potato may have them on the run now

But you know that they are somewhere in the walls And they are plotting against you and They might have a little mouse hole looking through it waiting for that toaster to come back. I feel you You don't like having mice in the house is not a lot of fun and they are cute I guess from time to time. I mean if that's the hard part about mice, right? That's why you don't want to kill them with traps or glue or anything like that because it's really hard to imagine them suffering. But on the other hand, they want to kill you with their poops. And similarly, have you ever, do you know what happened? I live in fear of the mice coming back. Just this past

summer, I discovered in our basement the remains of a mouse. Do you know what happens when a mouse dies and it's just there forever? Little skeleton, huge pile of fur. Fur never goes away. In life and in death, I know. That's why we must destroy them. Or at least not tempt them with crumbs. I sympathize with you and I appreciate how once you see mouse tails in the toaster once, that's trauma that you never forget. Even though Pete wants toast, I can see why you are able to maintain your cognitive dissonance to imagine that mice aren't dancing on your bed and on your pillows every day when you're outside. That's what they're doing, you understand that. The toaster is just the one place you remember seeing them. They are everywhere. They are sneaking in all the time. They are laughing at your cat's potato and the Dread Pilot Mr. Morton Scallywags. They are coming back and you will

not be able to stop them. The only... Denying yourself a toaster is just a salve, a mental salve. It means nothing to them. They'll come back and they'll find those crumbs. They'll get into those cans. You know this is true. Mice find a way. Pete really wants toast though. It's a true comfort food. That's it I was willing to rule in your favor because I sympathize with your trauma and they're gross and the mice are gross and you had a bad situation. And then I offered you a Breville toaster. And you said, I might be willing to compromise. You would compromise with me and the Breville Corporation

and not your own beloved husband. Maybe a new Breville toaster is worth hantavirus for him. Marriage vows be damned. Since you did not have the courage of your convictions, I will rule in Pete's favor. But Pete, this toaster must be clean. You understand. Oh yeah.

Okay. You must keep the toaster clean. You must police it for crumbs. It is your job to look for anything that might be a crumb but isn't a crumb. You know what I'm talking about. I would even consider suggesting that you keep it in the refrigerator. I actually read that today, yes.

Yeah. You might even want to start living in the refrigerator. And because I made the offer and you called my bluff, we have no poll with Revell whatsoever. None. But I'm going into my pocket to get one for you. So when you use it, Pete... I want you to remember,

this is the Judge John Hodgman gift toaster. Gotcha. I'm better than whoever gave you that old toaster for your wedding. I'm your crazy uncle Johnny. Keep it clean, maybe get another five cats. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. Annie and Pete, thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

In a moment we'll have Swift Justice, but maybe something before that? Yes, before we move on to Swift Justice, we have a very special guest. As you may know, we are calling this tour the Van Freaks Roadshow. This is in honor of the mutual love that Jesse and I have for certain vans, specifically the Japanese market only adventure van called the Mitsubishi Delica. So we don't have any Delicas here tonight, but maybe we have something else. Another special treat, Jesse. A very special guest. She was an appraiser who's been with the Antiques Roadshow since its earliest days on WGBH in 1997. She specializes in pop culture memorabilia from sports to entertainment to collectible toys Please welcome Lila Dunbar Lila Dunbar to the stage

Welcome to the show Lila we're such fans. Well, thank you Yeah, not only are we fans but these weirdos in the second row exploded when you walked out. Oh, I see the fedora. Yeah. Honestly, like, if you want a round of applause for a PBS star, Washington, D.C. is your spot. There you go. But by the way, John. Yes.

I like toasters. I could use a toaster. I'll give you a toad bag. So close. Leela, how did you get your start on the Roadshow? Oh wow, we're going back into ancient history now. Pre-High Def. Days of yore. Yes, pre-High Def. Yes, I prefer low lighting these days but that's all another story I got my start with roadshow I did the very first roadshow in 1996 at Concord Wow Massachusetts Concord Massachusetts they were literally pulling people in off the street to come in do you have something

do you have something we like your have something? We like your wallet. Come on in. We like that watch. Come on in. Did anyone call the police on you? Not that day. Okay. It's another story. So you were in Massachusetts at the time? Are you from Massachusetts?

I am from Massachusetts. What have I thought? Massachusetts, Jesse, is the most populous state in an area of New England, it's called. It's a southeast part of Canada. Honestly not familiar, never heard of it. Interesting. So what were you doing in Massachusetts at that time and how'd they rope you in? How'd they, oh, I was running a business with my dad,

we were running an antique shop in Milford running mail order and we were doing antique toys, advertising, folk art and I got a call one day saying, hey, they've got this newfangled show, it was starred in England. We're going to bring it over to the states. I'm like, I'm hoping they speed it up if they're bringing it over to the states. And we're going to, we want you to come in and do an interview. And next thing I know, I'm on the show and you know, 28 years later, here I am. I started when I was 12. Everyone believes that. No one buys that.

Now you specialize in pop culture stuff. Yes, fun stuff. Fun stuff. Was there anything that absolutely just took your breath away? I had many things, but I feel very fortunate that with the road show, you never know what's going to come in the door. That particular day. Right. I will tell you this, and I'm probably gonna regret this is going to be on the podcast, but I'll tell you anyway, this is behind the scenes at the road show. One time we had a gentleman come in, I was on the collectibles table,

and he said he had Lyndon Johnson's Fart in a Jar. LAUGHTER Wow. LAUGHTER That did not make it to television. My question was... Was there any way to establish the provenance? That was my question.

How do we know this is authentic? Right. And you were not able to. We were not able to. We have a piece of popular, well I should say an obscure cultural reference that is associated with the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Would you mind lending your expert eye to it? I'll lend both of them. Wonderful. Well let's bring the people out, shall we Jesse? Please welcome to the stage Craig and Betty. Craig and Betty to the stage please. So nice to see you.

What a wonderful place. Hi Craig. Hi. Anyway, feel free to sit down or if we make you comfortable at all. So Lila, let me explain to you. Craig and his mom Betty were on the show earlier this year in a case that we called, what do we call it Jesse? Special prosciutto-cuter. That's right. Oh yeah.

So, Lila, if you didn't hear this one, Betty had a Virginia country ham hanging in her basement that had been purchased by her husband some 50 years ago. Her husband, sadly, has passed on, though we remember him very fondly, and Craig knew that this old ham was in her basement, and he wanted to eat it. And what did I tell you, Craig? Absolutely not.

I said, no way. You can't eat that ham. I believe you were concerned that one of your listeners might die because of one of your rulings. I was mostly concerned that you not get your way. That's fair. Sometimes, just to let the curtain down, sometimes that happens, and I'm just like, no, I'm not gonna let him have it. That's fair. And I did let you have curtain down, sometimes that happens and I'm just like, no, I'm not going to let him have it.

That's fair. And I did let you have it. I let you have it with a verdict. What did I order you to do? You ordered us to dispose of the ham in one of two ways, which was left to my mother. One of which was to return it to its place of origin, or the other was in a sort of pharaoh-esque disposal to bury it with the generations of dogs that my mother has had. That's right. And, uh, and, and its place of origin, of course, was somewhere in Virginia, right? Yes, yes.

The, the Smoot's homelands. Okay. And, and so, uh, Betty, what, what ham plan did you choose? I, I agreed with your final ruling that we should give the the porthole thing some kind of a burial and the choice was to either return it to Virginia as as Craig said or bury it with all my dogs. So we have decided that if possible, Craig is going to take it on a road trip and bury it in Virginia. I'm not into road trips anymore. I was an Air Force brat and I've had enough of that. So driving stuff. But you're

saying that the ham has not yet been buried anywhere. No, it's here. It's here. I mean, Judge Hodgman, I'm going to be honest with you right here right now. If they really are going to take this artifact on the road, they're going to need to insure it. And if they want to insure it, they're going to need an appraisal. That's true. They might even need a ham carrying case. Maybe an Antiques Roadshow tote bag, for example. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see what kind of merch you get out of this. But I believe that our live producer, Laura Volk, is going to bring the item out. Did we ever name this ham? Wow. Wow. Okay, I asked for a ham not the mummy of a dead baby. Let the record show for those listening that Craig is now holding a a a wooden pinewood wine crate.

That's right, a pine of pinewood wine crate with a small object wrapped in white cotton muslin. Looks like to me. Betty, will you tell us again precisely when this ham was purchased? I don't remember exactly, but I'm thinking we think it was the early 60s. The early 60s. And I can say that I have seen the provenance. There is documentation that goes with the ham The original bill of sale etc. So I do you accept that I have established the provenance. I'm not lying to you

I think the authenticity is strong enough to proceed. Yes Let's let the ham speak for itself. Let's finally it may very well literally be able to do so But the record show that he is unwrapping okay so the white is just the bag folks yeah holy cow the white shroud has come off and now it is in its burlap bag I'm just gonna take this over to Leila Dunbar to take a look at. Just the enthusiasm with which everyone is handling this ham is really freaking me out. I can smell the authenticity. Yes.

Now it says, dry cured in Virginia packed for, and there's a blank space where perhaps your husband's name could have gone. It could have, yes. It smells, it smells like basement bacon. There's a certain musty patina to it. Let's go ahead and take it out of the bag.

Oh, wow. I did not know this was happening. I knew the other parts. Betty, now that this is happening, how does it feel to see this old ham again? Well, I just saw it this morning. Oh man, Craig, are you going to plonk it out? No, it has fallen once. I'm afraid it will disintegrate. I'm removing it from the bag.

And it still has... now, oh wow. Now there is a... That's a real letdown. It's also wrapped in paper. This is like a Russian nesting doll. It is. With meat at the center. Also, a pamphlet fell out. Hold on. Oh yes.

You want to hold on to that. Ha! Yeah. It's so much more valuable with the bag and documentation. This is the mail order card, which we discussed on the show. Yes, in case you wanted to order another one. The absolutely incomprehensible instructions, which are greased together, and then the interior, which says, please mail me, insert number, hams like the one I have just enjoyed.

Now I'm not sure how this would affect the evaluation, but your honor I know that you had enjoyed this. If... I don't want to touch any of your... Okay. I don't want to touch your greasy papers. Offload some of the portions here. Oh no, I don't want to. That's important to stay with the object.

Absolutely. That's right. It has to be complete. Oh boy. Now, when was the last time, Craig, before you open that and take it out, because is there any other wrapping inside? There's no...

Don't believe so. There's something that looks, it's either a string or a ligament of some kind attached to it. Could it be a mouse tail? It could be some sort of prehistoric rodent tail. It is very large. I'll take a look in a moment. Betty? Leela, have you ever appraised any food items or are there any notable like food auction results that we should be aware of? You know there has

been actually a lot of food that has been sold over the years or even that you could go to eBay today, old Hershey bars in their original boxes, old coke bottles, but what I'm thinking of here is in 2004 on eBay there was a grilled cheese sandwich that had the face of the Virgin Mary on it and that sold for $28,000. So my suggestion is we can only hope with the theme of the evening that there might be a shroud of Turin on yours. What if it was my face? Even better. Leila Dunbar, having inspected it visually and olfactorily, if you had to put a dollar value on this for insurance purposes, let's say they don't get it to its final resting place.

You know, I have to give a value that we don't normally give on the road show. It's priceless. Priceless. Craig, do you feel bad that I didn't let you eat it? You know, Your Honor, I feel very confirmed in your wisdom as far as your judgment went. You want to give it a little lick? Lick the ham. Is that part of the judgment? Lick the ham? Lick the ham. Is that part of the joke? Lick the ham. Lick the ham. Your Honor,

I will say, as Your Honor knows yourself, I am an only child. I am desperate for attention and approval. I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a little lick, Craig. Hang on. I'm gonna give it a little lick, Craig. Hang on. This is the last time this ham is gonna see the light of theater.

And maybe the light of day. We're sending it on its way home, right? To Virginia. Is that correct, Craig? Yes, that is correct. When are you gonna undertake this journey? As soon as we finish this segment? Yes, I will head out by the light of the moon. Yeah, can someone give your mom a ride home because you're leaving right away.

Betty, before this ham goes on to its next life, do you have any last words you wanna say to it? So long. All right, Craig, get in here. Let's give it just touch tongues. One, two, three. I didn't taste anything at all because I coated my tongue in five-hour energy drink before the show. Thank you very much for being here, both of you. Another round of applause for Craig and Betty.

Leila, if people out there have things they need appraised for their museum or for their insurance or just for their own edification? How can they find you? How can they find me? They can go to my website www. Just four W's, not three. We have four W's. Extra W. Extra W. www.liladunbar.com. That's it. Okay. Well, Lila, we're so grateful for you. Truly.

To you for coming on our program. What an honor it was to have you appraise this legendary ham. And you know what else, Leela? You get a toaster too. Judge John Hodgman, road Court is getting ready to roll. We're getting the, we bought the, we bought the Madden Cruiser. I wish, I wish we were going around in a big tour bus, but we're going to do a whole mixture of planes, trains, and automobiles to bring Judge John Hodgman live to you.

If you've been listening to this episode, it would seem that you have been. You know just how much fun a live episode can be. Well, guess what? We're coming to a city near you, I hope, including New York City, Philadelphia, going back to Washington, D.C. First time to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, first time to Ann Arbor, Michigan, which is a free show at a library.

We're going back to Madison, Wisconsin, the Fitzgerald Theater in St. Paul, Minnesota, first time in Burlington, Vermont, home of the fish food. Portland, Maine. We're coming back with Joel Mann and the Night and Day Jazz Trio. I hope, Joel, you say yes? We're in. All right, good. Turner's Falls, Massachusetts is a reunion with Monte, Bill Monte in my old hometown

and my real hometown, Brookline, Massachusetts is welcoming us at the place where I used to work when I was 19 years old, the Coolidge Corner Theater. And then when we skip over into 2025, because you know it's coming, we're gonna be in Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, Oregon, Los Angeles and San Francisco as well. Tickets are on sale now for all of these dates

at maximumfund.org slash events. Go there for more info and click those links and get those tickets. Maximumfund.org slash events, get those tickets. A lot of those shows are already starting to fill up. I saw, for example, you know, this is our first time in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Right now, Pittsburgh is leading the pack sales wise. It is getting close in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Grab your tickets for all of these places. It's different

in every single place. Yeah, that's right. It's a different show every night because we have different disputes every night. And that's thanks to you. If you have a dispute that you'd like us to consider for a live adjudication on stage, submit it now to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Make sure you let us know that you want us to consider it for the live show in the city where you live. And remember maximumfund.org slash events,

tickets are really going quickly. So get over there, get your tickets and get us your disputes at maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Let's get back to the case. Well, it's tough to top that ham, but I think I think we may have some guests who can top it. Some folks to come on and help us with Swift Justice. Yes, absolutely. Why don't you introduce them? Okay, you know them, of course, from their own podcast, wonderful, and from the entire McElroy family of podcasts,

Washington, DC's own Rachel and Griffin McElroy. Rachel and Griffin McElroy to the stage, please. So what have you desiccated for us? It's so cool to have seen offstage the origin of COVID-2023. It's super convenient, because the CDC is right down the street. So I can pop over there right after we're finished here

and be like, this is where it came from. Right. A very old ham. That's right. Patient zero and other dumb patients here licked it at the same time. Yes. And now I'm going to lick you. That's right. Patient Zero and other dumb patients here licked it at the same time. Yes. And now I'm gonna lick you. No, please. Any disputes that you'd like to air

before my court of state, Justice? We have couples cases coming up and you two do seem like a loving and placid couple, but what's rippling beneath the surface? We did have a moment this past weekend. We were at a Halloween party that a local pool was throwing, which was really just a few bounce houses overseen by teenagers in a parking lot. And while we were there, we saw a dog that our son Henry,

who's almost seven, is just sort of getting over his fear of dogs. He saw this dog and went up and very self-guided, asked if he could pet the dog. And the woman who was with this dog, it was like the dog was like a type of husky, but wasn't a husky, like a husky if the hair just goes completely out. It looks like if you put a husky in like a clover so maybe a Samoyed yes that's actually I think exactly wow excellent excellent dog I'm not a dog person I saw this dog I was like I get it I understand maybe a descendant of my mom's

Washington DC Samoyed sugar bear it's entirely possible should we get the antiques roadshow lady back out here? Was Sugar Bear studded or do you know if there was a breeding apparatus? Sugar Bear was eventually bedazzled. Today. Our son relished the opportunity to pet and eventually hugged this dog, which was choice. Our two year old does everything the six yearold does and just immediately went for it too I'm not a dog person

No, I still was like I'll check it and it was like running It was like if I was on an airplane and I stuck my hand out the window while a cloud passed by It was exceptional and then I said Rachel you got to get in on this and Rachel said no, I'm no no no To which I said no. No, it's okay. You should come and try it. She's like, no, no, no. To which I said, no, no, it's okay. You should come and try it. She's like, ah, it's all right. And then you didn't pet the dog. I didn't pet the dog.

And then later I asked why you didn't get a hand on the ball, the ball was a dog. What Griffin hasn't covered is the time that elapsed. I was pretty far away. I would say 10 feet away. Not far by most people's measurements. Henry went in for the pet and then Gus. And then there were a little time passed and then I think you went in there.

Yeah. And then I lost your dog petting windows. That's that's my point. Yeah. Was that enough time had passed that I felt like if I came in at the very end it would come across as maybe courteous but not enthusiastic. Maybe a little thirsty. Maybe that dog would be like, eww. So I said, that's, that's, oh, I'm good. So rather than be courteously enthusiastic, you decided to tell the dog to stick it? My thought was like I've

touched dogs before. Not this dog. Well I guess she'll never know unless you find that that dog again. As much as I love petting dogs it is hard to say that we could make it a compulsory activity. True but I guess now you're just gonna be chasing that experience for your for your wife for the rest of your life. Okay we have some swift justice to dispense. Shall we put ten minutes up on the clock and see how much justice we can get through? Let's please do it. Ready, set, begin. Please welcome to the stage Sarah and Tom. Sarah and Tom. Sarah and Tom have been married for 25 years. They love to travel and have recently been to Maine.

Tom is also an aspiring troubadour. You're an aspiring troubadour. Now, as far as I know, there is no officiating body over who can actually be a troubadour. Mostly you can just call yourself one. Yeah, it's not like a motorcycle license. Yeah, I was going to be a busker, but Troubadour sounded better. What do you play? The lute? I could.

Little piano, little guitar. Troubadour, you have to go around around the country. You can't take a piano with you. Right. Right. Guitar, you could. Yeah. You'll harmonica. What is he talking about?

May I ask you, please, Sarah? He likes to start playing songs and doesn't totally finish, so we're going to call him the ADHD busker. Just do everything's a medley. Uh-huh. All right. And he's planning, he's working on it. I think he can do half of about four or five songs, right?

What's our business before the court today, Your Honor? Thanks for keeping things in order. I appreciate that, Tom. Who does seek justice before me in this court? I seek justice. Sarah, what is the nature of the justice you seek? I would like you, Your Honor, to direct that my loving and beloved husband, that he cannot leave the house unless he is carrying the necessary items he needs to be a law-abiding

citizen, to be healthy, to meet his obligations as a spouse and a father. And I think the easiest or most effective way for this to be done is for him to use a case or bag of some sort of his own choosing. Tom, do you have a problem walking out of the house with things you need like keys, ID, wallet, that sort of thing? I don't have a problem with it, no. Not at all. So what is your solution for carrying these necessary items through the world?

Well, just to cut to the chase, Sarah wants me to wear a mers. And I'm just not going to do it. That's not the chase here, sir. Yeah. Sir, Sarah, what is the issue at hand? Is it an issue of you wanting him to wear a MERS or an issue of him asking something of you? He asks things of me.

So first of all, we go out often and he thinks it's still 1975 and he's a teenager. He doesn't need reading glasses, he doesn't need sunglasses, he doesn't need an extra battery for his cell phone. He doesn't, so we go out to eat and he wants to- It's just him and his flower, and his flowy shirt and his loot

going from ren fair to ren fair. 50 cents in his pockets to buy a soda and a Twizzler. So I'll say something like, can I have a second cocktail? And can you drive home? Oh, I don't have my driver's license. I didn't bring my wallet. Or I want to look at the menu. He looks at me, can I use your reading

glasses and so this is going on constantly. Does he ever ask you to carry these things for him? Not explicitly but it's implied right because somebody's got to drive home somebody's got he doesn't he says our neighborhood is safe we don't need a house key so for a long time he never carried a house key. So, for a long time, you never carried a house key or locked the door. What's your address? I already told them no last names. Griffin and Rachel, any opinion on this?

Have you listened to the show before, Tom? Absolutely, I have. You're not gonna win this. You're going to lose. I don't know if you probably could assume that from just sort of the general vibe on stage and in the audience, but you're going to lose this. The punishment has already been metered out. Okay, I just wanted to make sure you were prepared for the fact that you were going

to lose. I'll never leave the house without my wallet again. You're suggesting that the trial and the punishment are the same thing. That this humiliation is the punishment for your crime of purposeful and weaponized incompetence. Yes. Yes. Well, sir, you're wrong because punishment is decided by me not by you and the trial isn't over yet. Rachel, can I ask a quick question? Is it an issue of comfort?

Do you not like having things in your pocket? You know, I think I haven't made a very good transition to to old age. Like when I was working, I had a suitcase or briefcase, I had a messenger bag, I had pants. No, no, no, no. But those days are over. No, no, you're... I'm retired now. Sort of. It's just me, my traveling bassoon, and my underwear.

Pretty, pretty fair ladies, would you like to hear a bassoon and my underwear. Pretty, pretty fair ladies, would you like to hear a bassoon tune? Tis I, Tom, the traveling double-reed troubadour. Yes, Your Honor. When you buy a pair of dress pants, you can assume there are gonna be pockets. When you're buying sweatpants, you can't make that assumption. I bought sweatpants, and they come home, they don't have any pockets.

So I'm walking around with my wallet in my hands. And I know that's bad. It goes beyond pockets. He needs to carry an EpiPen, he has food allergies. Yeah, I was going to say, wow. Sometimes we have to carry an inhaler for our son. I've always had the inhaler. It feels like there's an opportunity for a beautiful compromise here. I always have the inhaler. It feels like there's an opportunity for a beautiful compromise here. I'd love to hear it.

Which is the gig bag. You have your instrument of choice, probably not the piano, with you at all times, also tucked away in there in the little pouch where you're supposed to put a tuner or a capo. You also have your EpiPen. You also have your wallet, your keys, your phone, anything else.

And your whatever, your little practice guitar in case you want to do some busking. That's exactly right. What's the bag that you want him to carry? I see you're carrying two bags, one for yourself and one for Tom. So I saw a lovely Italian leather number, but this is not it. But this is just a proof of concept bag.

Proof of concept bag. That's gorgeous. I'm gonna give this to our menswear expert and men's accessories expert Jesse Thorne. So I think what we see here is a is a convenient utility bag it has a front pouch it has a second front zipper and then it has a central compartment I think if we open the central compartment, what we'll find, yup, is organizational tools inside. Oh, I thought it was gonna be a hundred dead mice. There's a lot of places you could put an EpiPen there,

reading glasses, whatever you needed to carry on a day-to-day basis. This may not be your idea of fashionable, Tom, but there is a solution out there for you that I think you will find is useful and is to your taste and it is your job to find it. And until you do, put it on. Thank you, Sarah and Tom.

That's the punishment, Tom, put it on. Let's welcome, That looks cool. You look great, Tom. He looks good. It's a cool look. It's a cool look, Tom. Thank you very much, Sarah. Thank you, Tom. Sarah and Tom. May justice go with you. Let's welcome to the stage JP.P. and Sharon. J.P. and Sharon. Sharon is a lawyer specializing in women's rights. J.P. is a birder and a Red Sox fan. Welcome to the... Wow, I was wondering whether people

were gonna care about sports here. And the answer was three did. A lot. Who brings the case to me in this court? I do, your honor. JP? Yes. What is your real name, please?

My real name is John. John, thank you. What is the nature of your dispute? I would like Sharon to stop blaming me for the 2004 election of George W. Bush. Did you vote for him a million times? Not even once. Sharon, how is your husband responsible for the second term of George W. Bush? Because in the lead up to the election of George W. Bush for the second time, his beloved

Red Sox were in the playoff. Yes. And I asked him, would you rather have John Kerry win the election or have the Red Sox win the World Series? And he said, well, we had a Democratic president pretty recently. He then proceeded to use all of his mojo, which is wrapped up in this blanket. We'll get to the blanket. To help the Red Sox get past the Yankees and

win the World Series. Yeah, and then we all know what happened in the election. Wow. Yeah. Before I ask you your reasoning and your moral choices, what did you do to make the Red Sox win the World Series? Well, if I sit in a particular position with a particular blanket on my head, the Red Sox tend to do very well in the playoffs. Who knew that all it took for the Red Sox to win the World Series was a weird reenactment of a Handmaid's Tale? Exactly.

When he's actually watching it, it's very stressful. He covers everything up besides his eyes, and he just peers through. The baseball organs that you need to see baseball happen. 100%. Look at your husband, this weird wizard that you married. Whence come his magical powers? What makes him so powerful and, dare I say, attractive?

It is unclear to me, but if you watch baseball with my husband, he will say something and ten seconds later the announcer will say the exact same thing. Oh, JP is making me say this! Holy cow! It's true. Wrong team, I know. I tried. Gryffindor Rachel, do you have a question for this JP fellow?

Is there a way you wear your blanket that changes the outcome of presidential elections? That is my argument, is that I have very limited powers, exclusively limited to the Red Sox and the playoffs. And so I couldn't affect the outcome of the election. Well, why didn't you say that to Sharon when she posed you the choice? I mean, John, you're from Boston.

You probably know that for Bostonians, this many Bostonians other than you, this is the most like, it's possible that John Kerry would have chosen the Red Sox winning the World Series. Well, he didn't certainly he certainly didn't seem like he wanted to win. Sorry, John Kerry, Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts and Senator. So what would you have me rule now that you've aired this grievance, Sharon? Well, I would like you to rule that he's at fault and he should feel bad for this. And I would point out that there were Cubs fans and

the Cubs won and then guess who won the next election? So this is actually a problem and you must stop it you must tell baseball fans they should do the right thing politically. We have to stand up for these curses. Exactly. We should note that he is still wearing the blanket on his head. I'm a rule follower. If I asked you to entrust me with that red blanket until 2025 in exchange for a toaster. We have had a toaster. We have had a toaster recently. I just feel like as someone who believes in rationality but is also occasionally susceptible

to the idea of curses and fated outcomes because on the night of the night of election night 2004 our daughter was let's say about two and a half years old. And I leaned over her to say good night to her on that night. And she said, what's that on your shirt? And it was a sticker that said, carry on it. And I said, that's who I want to be president. And she just looked at me and beamed and she said, maybe next time.

That's how I knew it was over. It's hard not to believe in fatedness from time to time and I feel like for the sake of your relationship and perhaps our very Republic, we need to get you, we need to break this, break this curse that started in 2004 and I think if you give me that red blanket, if you walk it over to me right now, and I will hold it in trust for you. I rule in whatever favor I just ruled in, I get the blanket.

Thank you JP and Sharon. And, of course, thank you to our friends Rachel McElroy and Griffin McElroy from the wonderful podcast, Wonderful. Thank you. What a joy it's been. Washington, D.C. is lucky to have you. Thank you, Washington. Thank you, Judge John Hodgman.

Thank you, Griffin. Thank you, Rachel, so much. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. That's it for this episode of the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Our thanks to Reddit user thishenryjames for naming the case in this episode. Follow us on Instagram at JudgeJohnHodgman. We're on YouTube and TikTok at Judge John Hodgeman pod. Jared Slauson And thank you to podcast listener, codenamed

NJHFRYHV on Apple Podcasts, gave us a really nice review saying, wonderful show, always fun and funny, yet Judge John Hodgeman invariably brings to his judgments, wisdoms, ethic- well, they didn't say wisdoms, they said wisdom correctly. But we have multiple wisdoms. Many wisdoms. And compassion for his guests. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts, it would be wonderful if you would give us a rating. Maybe even give us a few stars,

maybe five, that's a suggested number of stars. It really does help new listeners find the show, and wherever you listen to podcasts, if you have a chance to just leave a little note saying, I liked it, that really, really helps. But you know what really helps even more? Telling a friend voice to voice, hey, listen to Judge John Hodgman,

or share our YouTube episodes, or do whatever you feel like to let people know. We're making a podcast and it's maybe worth five stars. The Judge John Hodgman podcast was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. Our touring producer was Laura Volk. This episode was recorded by Steven Colon. And this tracking that we're doing right now recorded by our pal Joel Mann at WERU Community Radio in Orland,

Maine. Natty Lopez is our social media manager. A.J. McKeon edits the podcast. Daniel Spear is our video editor. Our producer, Jennifer Marmer. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.