Judge John Hodgman - Vehicular Man-Squatter

Episode Date: May 24, 2017

Ri brings the case against his brother Jan. Jan has been living in his car for the last several months. Ri thinks Jan needs to find an apartment of his own. But, Jan is happy with his current situation. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? Thank you to Rick Gutierrez for suggesting this week's title! To suggest a title for a future episode, like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, vehicular man squatter. Ree brings the case against his brother, Jan. Jan has been living in his car for the last few months. Ree thinks Jan needs to find an apartment of his own. But Jan is happy with his current situation. Who's right?

Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. I know his girlfriend Phyllis, but I won't tell her. It's not for me to judge or discriminate, just because she does and he won't. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, or nothing but the truth, so help you God, or whatever? Yes. Yes. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he prefers hashtag van life? Yeah.

Yeah. Very well, Judge Hodggman you may be seated re and jan for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors can either of you name the piece of culture that i referenced as i entered the courtroom uh jan why don't you go first what's your guess um phyllis. Phyllis. I have no idea, and I'm not even going to venture a guess. Good job saying Phyllis, though. That's true. You do have to guess.

I'm going to enter Phyllis into the guest book, specifically the Cloris Leachman spinoff of Mary Tyler Moore's show in the 70s. So we'll enter that. And now, Rhi, what is your guess? Well, considering past podcasts, I'll just go with a Martin Goetsch song. Considering podcasts, a Martin Goetsch song. No, a Martin Goetsch song, Judge Hodgman.

Listen carefully. I apologize. But I would like the Mountain Goods to release an album called The Martin Goods. And song one, side one, a Martin Goods song. If you're listening, John Darnielle, I'm commissioning a song from you. Hey, they have a new record album out. Judge Hodgman, I'm a little bit worried that if you challenge John Darnielle to write a song called the Martin Good Song, he will, because I don't know if you're aware of this, but

he and our mutual friend, Ryan Johnson, got into a back and forth on Twitter a couple months ago after John wrote on Twitter that he wanted the new Star Wars movie to be named The Ultimate Jedi, who wastes all the other Jedi and eats their bones. And then Ryan said that he should write a song of that, and then he did. Yeah. No, no, I know exactly what I'm doing. All guesses are wrong, by the way. It's not Phyllis, although that was a great guess. A much overlooked sitcom, and nor was it a Mountain Goats song. It was the complete poem called Vincent Said, written by the singer-songwriter known as Jewel, from her book of poetry that came out in 1998, before you were even born, probably,

called A Night Without Armor. in 1998, before you were even born, probably, called A Night Without Armor. And Jewel, as you may know, is famous for being from Alaska, getting discovered when she was 21 years old in a cafe in California, when she was living in her what, you guys? A car.

Car? Wrong, van, but good, close enough. Van, oh, I mean, same difference? You know what, accounts vary, but good, close enough. Van, oh, I mean, same difference? You know what? Accounts vary. But yes, one of the fables of Jewel was that she was an Alaskan fairy princess who was living in a van and then became a singer-songwriter and a poet. So here we are. Rhi, you bring this case against your brother Jan, right?

Yes. And you both live in Atlanta. Is that correct? Yeah, I live in Atlanta proper. He lives in metro Atlanta. Yeah, more closer to Marietta. Well, I was going to say Marietta because there's a very specific accent

that you both have. It's a very obvious Marietta accent. That Atlanta Marietta accent. Where are you both from originally? Where are you from originally, I should say? Rhi? South Africa. Yeah, we're both born and raised South African.

Born and bred. Yeah, born and bred. And where in South Africa were you born and raised? All over, really, but we were both born in Pretoria. Yeah, and then we learned our English in Durban. So our father works around a lot. So we lived in all parts of South Africa. And now you live here in the United States.

And you both live in Atlanta. How did you guys come to live in Atlanta? Well, my father, he works with business intelligence for Coca-Cola. And so he's a contractor. And so he gets contracts all over the place. They're actually currently in Japan, in Tokyo, working on the vending machines for Coca-Cola. When you say business intelligence, are you saying that he's a Coke spy? Yeah.

I mean, I can't really tell you anything and when you say that he has contracts all over the world you mean that he has to murder various soft drink magnates all over the world right my lips are sealed oh did he take out the moxie guy the moxie guy yeah jesse i don't know if i've ever mentioned to you a regional new england soft drink called moxie it's from new england originally manufactured in massachusetts but now the state soft drink of maine i'm not familiar with any of those things that you just listed in any case none of this is interesting even well i have to say your dad being a mercenary slash license to kill uh coke spy is awesome but jan you're living not merely in atlanta you're living in

your car is that correct that is correct and jan how old are you i 21. And why are you living in your car? That is a very good question that I still kind of don't have the answer to. Well, how long have you been living in your car? Until now, it's the fourth month, so it's been three months. You're in your fourth month now. I would think that spending that much time alone in your car would give you ample opportunity to consider, why am I doing this? Yeah, but, you know, I tend to find other things to occupy my time besides contemplating my living situation. I find that to be impossible. my living situation. I find that to be impossible. If I were sleeping in a parked car,

I would only be thinking about where has my life gone wrong? Well, you're assuming that he's sleeping in a parked car. That's true. I might have a very, very dignified chauffeur driving me all over Atlanta, showing me the sights. As much as I love that image, what kind of car do you have? I have a 2010 Prius. Yeah. A little cherry red. Yeah.

It's my baby. That's your baby? It sounds to me like you're its baby. Because you're gestating inside of it. Gestating in the womb. Yes. Rhi, do you live in a car? I do not.

I live in an apartment. Where do you live? In Little Five Points, Atlanta. Oh, yeah, I know Little Five Points. That's a cool neighborhood. They used to have a record store there. I bet it's not there anymore. No, it is.

Criminal Records, it's still there. All right. Well done, Criminal Records a record store there. I bet it's not there anymore. No, it is. Criminal Records. It's still there. All right. Well done, Criminal Records. Hanging in there. I appreciate that. So, Rhi, you are older than Jan? Yeah.

Well, I'll be 23 in July. Since Jan doesn't seem to know, do you have any idea why he's living in his car? Tell me what's going on in his life. He's... The way I explain it is, so my brother's, he's busy getting a mathematics degree and he's already, he's already got like a crazy professor vibe where he only thinks about math all the time and that's the only thing he's doing. So he's just like a crazy professor and he doesn't like the trappings of like a civilized life. So, you know, he's just like, I don't need a house. I'm just going to live in my

car. And he's just, he's just, he gets these ideas in his head and then he just gets really stubborn and he doesn't listen to anybody. We don't have any experience with that at Judge John Hodgman. We don't have any experience with that at Judge John Hodgman. Now that you put it in the context of he's something of a crazy professor, I understand better. When I was going to Yale University, an accredited four-year college in southern Connecticut, famous Shakespeare scholar Harold Bloom would sleep in a chrysalis and wake up every morning a beautiful butterfly. The keeper of the Western canon. That's exactly so. A lot of people don't know that Harold Bloom is a were-butterfly.

Half man, half butterfly. So, Jan, you're getting a degree in mathematics. That's correct. Is this a financial issue for you, Jan? Do you have to sleep in a car? No, it's not. Being a contract mercenary for the Coca-Cola Foundation or corporation, there's not really much trouble there. Your father could support a nicer lifestyle for you with his moxie blood money. No, I mean, he is supporting me and my brother. nicer lifestyle for you with his moxie blood money no i mean he is supporting me and my brother so this is pure choice this is pure affected eccentricity of course yeah yeah there's no

philosophy behind it there's no ideology behind it there's no underlying theory of how we we need to make cities denser by living in smaller spaces and thus increasing efficiency is just like, maybe I'm going to drive my older brother crazy by sleeping in my car. Maybe I'll get on a podcast if I do this. Is that what you're thinking? Hey, that's what I was just thinking. Maybe this is all a ruse just so I could get on the John Hodgman show. Well, let's make sure that it's not a ruse.

You're not faking. You're not lying. You sent in, evidence was submitted to this court of you in your Prius. Yeah. Submitted by Jan. And you can find all of this evidence, of course, on the Judge John Hodgman page at MaximumFun.org. And here we are.

So let's talk a little bit about what I'm seeing here. Prius, it is cherry red, as you pointed out. It is a hatchback. What I'm observing is that you have created a kind of sleeping nest in the cargo area with the back seat folded front. Yes, that's correct. Yes, that's correct. I see your nest here is made up of a large red pillow, a large multicolored quilt of some kind, and then like a blue comforter. Yes, a homemade quilt. All the comforts of non-home. And you have a, also your blue comforter is concealing a red plastic bin, which. Yes, that's correct.

That's where I keep all of my clothing. Okay. Yeah. But what I neglected to forward was I can actually fold all of that stuff into the trunk and still have a five seater car if I need it to be. I see you lying in the car. Obviously, you do not normally sleep with the hatch open. This is just for demonstration purposes. Of course, yeah. How tall are you? 5'11".

Ah, that's the favorite answer of everyone who is 5'10". Of course. I tried that for years, Jan. Stop lying to yourself and others. Okay, but you're an average height person, and you're lying there with a big smile on your face, and your thumbs are up, but because you're lying down, all I see are thumbs down. Thumbs down, Jan.

Yeah. Where are you parked in this photo? I was parked in a friend's neighborhood yesterday. A pop-in complex. Is that where you sleep? No. Generally, I find like an abandoned, or not abandoned, but a place where they fix cars and they have a bunch of cars that are being worked on then I generally park in between like two cars that haven't moved in weeks and then I just stay there but last night was a special case right because you needed to

take these pictures you didn't think it would help your case to have your car photographed in an after hours sketchy muffler repair situation next to a couple of abandoned cars. Right. It's terrifying. Terrifying lifestyle, Jan. One quick question. Do you park? Do you sleep in different places every night? No. Generally on Monday, Wednesday, Friday nights, I stay in the same place.

And then Tuesday, Thursday, I stay somewhere else. But beyond that, it's pretty stationary. Because I go to two different campuses for my college. One is up north on 75 and the other one is closer to Atlanta. So then wherever I need to be the next day, I sleep there the night before. Do you cover your windows or do you sleep such that someone could peer into your window and see you sleeping? I sleep uncovered, like with nothing on the windows windows but that's actually something i've been thinking

about i need to find some velcro or find a seamstress that can make me some uh coverings that's yeah yeah you have to find a seamstress to get some really nice custom hatchback coverings so no one will see you sleeping in the at 2 a.m in the creepy muffler lot the biggest problem is it's so well lit that i have a hard time sleeping you want to rethink the three words the biggest problem yeah maybe because i got one for you i have a question i don't know the answer do you have permission from creepy muffler shop a or b to be sleeping in their lot overnight i do not but uh it seems that they haven't caught on because i usually leave before uh 7 a.m i'm out of there because I have also the problem is that when they catch on you'll know yeah most

likely so you don't have permission right no I also had trouble with the police on campus because I was parking on campus at first and then they were like yeah maybe you shouldn't be uh parking maybe you should find a place to live or something. And every night they would wake me up with like a flashlight to see what was up. Well, that answered my next question, which is why don't you park at the campuses? Because the campuses have said to you of your two institutions of higher learning, please don't sleep in your car in our parking lot. Yeah, pretty much.

Let's take a quick break. We'll be back in our parking lot. Yeah, pretty much. Let's take a quick break. We'll be back in just a second. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to embrace,

because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Hmm. Were you trying to put the name of the podcast there?

Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. podcast there yeah i'm trying to spell it but it's tricky let me give it a try okay if you need a laugh and you're on the go call s-t-o-p-p-b-a-d-i it'll never fit no it will let me try if you need a laugh and you're on the go try s-t-o-p-p-b-d-c-o-o oh we are so close stop podcasting yourself a podcast from maximumumFun.org. If you need a laugh, then you're on the go. Welcome back to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Ree, your brother has made a life choice. And he seems pretty happy with it. Why would you have me compel him to move into an apartment or some other kind of standard living arrangement? Well, I think it's, there's like two parts to this. The first one is that it's starting to, it's getting a lot hotter in Atlanta now,

now that it's starting to be summer. So, you know, so he's going to be in China. So he won't be back until June. And at that point, it's going to be blazingly hot outside, even at night. And he can't, you know, he can't sleep with the windows down and he can't run his car the entire night. So that's why he needs to get an apartment. So he, you know, doesn't get heat stroke or anything and then the second part is he spends most weekends at my apartment which is like cool and all but I do have the apartment that I'm living is in is 442 square feet so it's absolutely tiny and then he'll you know he'll come

here Friday and then spend Friday night Saturday night night, and then sometimes Sunday as well. And I like having them there, but it's just like, it's too cramped. Like I just, I can't do it. So like my solution is he just needs to find his own apartment. So what's going on in your life? You have what we call a traditional home in Atlanta, a condominium, a very small condominium. Did you say some 400 square feet? It was 442 square feet, yeah. Oh, okay.

Sorry, it's a little bit bigger than I thought. But it says you have a studio apartment, and you have sent in some evidence, which is a photo of this apartment. This is also going to be posted on the Judge John hodgman page at maximumfund.org the apartment has mustard colored walls beautiful hardwood floors and apparently you have zero furniture is this part of your weird living arrangement no that was that was um before i moved in oh okay just scoping it out. I would have taken pictures with the furniture in there, but my apartment's really dirty right now.

It would have been a beautiful twist if of the two children of the coke mercenary, one of them lived in a car and one of them slept on a bare floor. That would have been a very interesting fable. But no, it's just a regular old apartment. And Jan comes and spends most weekends with you? Most weekends, like two to maybe three weekends out of every month.

Well, he goes to math conferences, so he'll be away for a weekend, or he'll hang out with friends over the weekend. I don't want you to apologize. Don't apologize for your brother. Stop protecting him. How many weekends a month does he spend with you? Three. Three weekends out of four. All right. Johan, how does this deadbeating fit into your life decision?

on how does this dead beating fit into your life decision hey i'm always it's always a thing of if he wants me to leave he can tell me to you know leave and i always leave and um but like the last two weekends i wasn't there maybe one weekend out of the last two and before that i wasn't because lately i've been going on a lot of conferences as well so and when you go to the conferences do you drive your car to the conference and then sleep in the car actually no that's my one respite i tell myself if i'm going to a conference i'm being productive i can get a hotel or do you feel that you're not being productive going to college i am but it's mundane i mean I mean, I've been going to college the last three years. Getting a graduate degree in mathematics is too normal. You have to weird it up a little bit.

Yeah, I think so. But if you go to a math conference, you're pushing the ball forward. So you allow yourself an actual bed. Yeah, I need to be well rested so i can shake shake the hands of all the important people i have to impress will they but get a job will they shake your hand because i'm guessing you smell where do you shower and reese um no i have a there's a gym on campus that I use and there's like a private bathroom I can actually, they have, the school's big enough to have their own private bathroom. So with a shower, a toilet. I'm glad to hear that your program in math has a bathroom.

Glad you're going to one of those reputable schools. Yeah, UC Santa Cruz, we just had holes in the ground. Jan, I have some more questions, and I just need basic answers. You don't need to go into detail here. I just am very curious about your lifestyle. What time in the morning do you wake up? When I'm in optimum, it's about 6 or 7 a.m. All right.

And then you drive over to campus. Yes. And then you go into that private bathroom. Yes, generally to take a shower. You take a shower at the gym. You go to class. At the end of the day, you go back to your haunted muffler shop. What time do you go to bed? 12 a.m. usually.

Yeah. Around then. And are you running the car that whole time like listening to tunes do you have any entertainment in there no actually i stay in the engineering building of my college because it doesn't have any regulations on how late it's open so you can be in there because i need the wi-fi to do homework and such right okay so you do all your work there so by the time you return back to prius sweet Prius you're ready to conk out yep what do you mean to use the bathroom in the middle of the night uh I haven't ran into that

problem yet because I go to the bathroom right before I uh go to my car okay what what do you have water do you have refreshment do you have food in there uh generally no i don't you don't have water no okay and what about the heat you are living in atlanta and re is concerned about your your safety as it gets hotter in atlanta have have you ever suffered a heat wave that has been uncomfortable in the car uh not really it hasn't i haven't hit that point yet i mean it's been fluctuating lately so no i haven't had that trouble jan are you interested in romance yes but uh yeah but not at the moment obviously is the car bad in your tinder for me wait are you seeing someone jan i am not but i was about two months ago well if i've done my math right that was during the car period

what effect did your car bed have on your romantic life it it killed it basically oh yeah it kind of ended the relationship were you seeing a man or a woman a woman yeah and did you keep the car a secret from her no no she knew uh from the beginning like as soon yeah from the beginning. And somehow you let her go? Somehow you didn't do what it took to keep a woman who voluntarily went out on a date with a guy who admitted from the start he was living in his car? Well, we had been dating for about six, seven months before. So she dumped you because you moved into the car? Pretty much. Did she give you a letter of recommendation or anything no she she did write me a letter about how how like selfless i was and i had humility

and all these things but i don't know what the letter was for really she wrote the the letter it was a breakup letter yeah yeah she said that all these lovey-dovey things because it was my decision to end it or it wait a minute what there was so much strain on the relationship that i just said there's no real uh prerogative to keep it going you have to focus on what's important living in your car yeah exactly just so that i understand you were in a relationship tell me about the day you woke up and said i'm tired of waking up in this bed i have another idea no so the the thing um our parents moved to japan and they needed to sell the house and i was living in the house and they're like well figure it out and i

was like okay i figured it out and they were like all right have you told your dad double o coke uh that you're living in the car does he know yeah he knows his dad is this dad is too cool for words he went through much worse than the Bay of Pigs. My son is living in his car. I don't have time for this. I'm moving to Japan on assignment. Yeah, that's how he gestured with his eyes. He gestured with his eyes. Is that the most emotion he's ever shown you? I need to go on assignment. He gestured with his eyes. What about your mom? She's upset, actually. She doesn't want me living in my car.

Is that because it's dangerous, it's illegal, it's ill-advised, or another reason I haven't thought of yet? I think you have to be a mother to know the reason. I'm not sure. No one else could understand. Everyone besides mothers lives in their cars. Mom. It's what all the cool kids

are doing, Mom. Has anything happened since you've moved over to the creepy muffler shop? Have you had any dangerous encounters? Anybody trying to get into your car? No. Nothing. It's been shot have you had any dangerous encounters anybody trying to get into your car no nothing it's been pretty boring how long do you see this going on is this a full-time yeah foreseeable future for the foreseeable future what's your um my father's actually um

in works are thinking about after i get back from China before fall semester, getting me an apartment. But my plan is to find tenants for that apartment and putting that money that I get from the tenants and putting it into my Roth IRA. So, yeah, sure. That's tax deferred. You know what? You're a mathematician, and you're thinking that your dad will get you an apartment that you will rent out and put that money into your Roth IRA, and you're 21 years old. I kind of want to hire you as my financial advisor. Yeah, I mean, I could send you my card. You said you were going to China?

Yes. Did I miss something? How did this come into this stew of crazy facts that I have heard so far? Three years ago, I started learning Chinese in a classroom environment. And then I ended up being proficient at it. And now I'm at a point where I can have a conversation in Chinese. So my plan is to either get my PhD in China or just go there for a gap year or something. But for now, I'm just going for a summer since I've never been to see what it's like.

And will that be this summer that's coming right up? Yes. All right. So, Rhi, here's the thing. Jan, it's important to me that you find that letter that your girlfriend wrote to you and read portions of it on the air. So I'm going to release you to go find that. And Rhi, I'm going to talk to you for a little bit. Okay.

What's going on with Jan, Rhi? Has he always been this way? Yeah. Yeah, he's just always kind of, I don't know, he just does his own thing. And, I don't know, my family, we've just kind of realized that, like, he can't really talk him out of things. Like, he just has to do them. He's, like, really stubborn and, like, driven. So.

like really stubborn and like driven. So was there something else that he's done that comes to mind where you were like, you wish you could have talked him out of it, but he couldn't, he was just stood his ground. Well, last summer after my, my parents had moved to Japan, he wanted to grow a weed in the shed in our backyard. And yeah, and I couldn't really talk about it he he had to like he like we had there was like little weed plants growing in in the shed in our backyard and now this is this is a family-friendly podcast so i'm just going to explain to the children uh who are

driving to work and listening that weed is a slang for marijuana, which is a recreational drug that is illegal in some states, legal in some states, and restricted use for medicinal purposes only. I do not believe that Georgia legally permits you to grow marijuana in one's backyard. Do you have any opinions on that, Rhi? Anything you know that i don't um yeah no it's definitely illegal and the only thing that's legal in georgia is i think the oils um for medicinal purposes but like you're definitely not allowed to grow it wow that's i didn't even know that okay well interesting right yeah no i can't imagine it would be like and and did he go through with this scheme

yeah yeah no he he they didn't grow to be like very big he ended up i don't know why he um my parents found out and i threw them away so okay yeah that's why but sorry this is like 15 different 80s teen movies. All mashed together. Okay. Rhi, what are you worried about is going to happen with Jan? Like long term or because he's living in his car? Well, how about let's do micro and macro. With regard to the car, what is your chief concern? Is it worry for him or you're tired of the inconvenience of him dead beating around your condominium and eating your food?

It is. I think it's mostly like concern for him because like that's when you're most at your most vulnerable. Like when you when you're asleep. Now he's sleeping in a car and you can like somebody could just like break the windows and like, I don't know, steal his things or like rough them up. It's like, I kind of worry about that. And also just how hard it's going to get in the summer. Like I just, yeah.

And long-term what's going to happen to your brother? I'm just like, I worry that he's going to like burn out. Cause he, he just kind of wants to do like everything at once and he's very very driven what would you say is your brother's best quality I don't well I don't know if it's his best quality but I think the one that I admire the most is that he's so driven because he's very ambitious and driven. Meanwhile, I'm just ambitious and I'm not driven at all. So I really respect that about him.

I'm trying to evaluate if your use of the term driven there is an attempt at a pun. I'm a little nervous about it. Oh, no, that was accidental. I can't believe it. You're ambitious but not driven, yet strangely you're the one living like a fully functional adult

yeah what are you going to do with your life you're young you're only a year older than Jan right yeah a year and a half are you dating anyone is Jan coming over on the weekends hurting your life in any way

or deranging your life in any way I mean I'm not like I'm not seeing anybody but that is that is like a factor that's like it's it's never it's more of a thing of like I'll be going out to see somebody and then he calls me and he wants to know if he can come over and I'm like no like I can't I'm gonna go and see this person and then I just I feel bad because you, then he's just like stuck in his car because I'm like going out. Right. One other question.

This apartment that you live in, is it, I'm not clear on this, is it a rental or do you own it? Well, my dad and a bunch of his friends own it and then i rent it from them i say it's an investment property that your dad bought with a bunch of his mysterious friends his old friends from the bay of pigs yeah yes he's very highly trained in a certain set of very specific skills, right? Yeah, and he does have a Roth IRA as well. It's tax deferred. Okay.

Do you have any form of income, Rhi? No, not yet. You just got your bachelor's degree in what? Economics. Graduated in December. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. What kind of job do you want to get? Well, the ambitious side of me is applying to grad schools right now.

So, because I want to work on climate change policy. right now because I want to work on climate change policy. But if that doesn't work out, then I'll probably just get some 9 to 5 that pays a decent amount. 9 to 5 in the field of economics? Yeah. Let me help you with the climate change policy. It's too late. No, I know. Oh, no. It's just been stressing me out too much

I'm like why am I even applying to grad school like it's we're all already dead we might as well give up our apartments and move into our cars I appreciate Jan's apocalyptic lifestyle a little bit better now Jan did you find that letter I did not I don't have it I appreciate Jan's apocalyptic lifestyle a little bit better now.

Jan, did you find that letter? I did not. I don't have it. Why? It was a paper letter? Yeah, it was a paper letter. Yeah. Not something you could look up on your phone?

No, it was scented and everything. I need you to tell me as much of it as you remember. She said something like I had taught her so much and that she, because I was her first boyfriend or something. And then she's like, your humility and selflessness for living in your car in the present circumstances, leave something to be desired or something along those lines of basically stop living in your car and we can date again. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I am going to climb onto this bicycle and take a little nap and think it over. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. I have a question for the two of you together. Either of you can answer this.

Is it actually legal to sleep in a car in Atlanta? I don't know. I haven't had trouble yet. Hashtag white privilege. Yeah. Fair enough. Are you ever afraid, Jan? Yes.

Actually, there's been numerous times where I've been kind of like my heart's in my throat and I'm like, what's going on outside? But I think I've gotten bolder as time's gone on. I put my feet up instead of keeping it down so people don't see me, but now it's feet up in the air while I'm reading my book. You don't care who sees your feet? No. No matter how grotesque that athlete's foot is from only showering at the gym. No matter how grotesque that athlete's foot is from only showering at the gym.

Rhi, do you think your brother's going to be OK? Yeah, he'll be fine. He's a good kid. Is your apartment going to be OK? Yeah, no, he'll be fine. OK, well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this when we come back in just a second. You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast always brought to you by you, the members of MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org.

MaximumFun.org. Thanks to everybody who's gone to MaximumFun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by our pals over at Made In. Jesse, you've heard of Tom Colicchio, the famous chef, right? Yeah, from the restaurant Kraft. And did you know that most of the dishes at that very same restaurant are made with made-in pots and pans? Really? What's an example? The braised short ribs, they're made-in, made-in. The Rohan duck, made-in, made-in.

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Come back. Come back to Atlanta as soon as possible. Your son has not grown up enough to be left alone in a major city. Secret dad, if you do not know this already, your son is sleeping in his car. And if you buy him an apartment, like you bought Ree an apartment, he's going to sublet it out

and take that money and put it into his Roth IRA. You need to come back, dad. You can't just leave your sons behind in a car or maybe you can maybe he's the greatest dad in the world i kind of love that you're going through this both of you jan taking on this bizarre life experience and experiment and re you're having to take care of your younger brother. This is an almost acceptable transitional bit of weirdness post-college and into adulthood,

because you are both really young. This is the thing that I have to keep reminding myself. Jan, when you said, yeah, I had a girlfriend, but then I moved into my car and she broke up with me two months after I moved into my car. I'm like, two months? Really? Wow. Then you pointed out that you were her first boyfriend, which at your age is not inconceivable. you're living in that twilight period post late teens and into adulthood where you just don't know you don't there are a lot of things you don't know about human beings and about being a grown-up the ridicule that is being heaved at you yon by jesse and me is that as grown-ups we just it is a given you don't if you sleep in your car,

something bad has happened and you need help. And there are reasons for this, right? It's not just because it's an unusual lifestyle that most people take up because they have no other means available to them and are thus facing a crisis in their life. The reason that the car is the last resort of the most impoverished is that it is profoundly unsafe. You know that you are exposed. You are set aside legality

because if you're parking on private property, uh, I think it is okay to do what you're doing, but you're parking on private property without the owner's permission. And you don't know, never mind people just walking by and harassing you. Or deciding to smash those windows and see what else is in that car besides that sleeping dude. If creepy muffler shop owner one or two figures out that you've been doing this scheme, it could get bad for you. You could get, that's trespassing and you could be arrested for it. I don't know how much your charming Roth IRA anecdotes are going to ease your way once

you get arrested for trespassing. Now, to answer your question, Jesse, I don't know the specific legalities, but based on some message boards dedicated to living in one's cars and vans, the refuge that most people take when they have to spend a few nights in their car is often to go to a Walmart. Walmart allows RVs to camp for periods of time in their parking lots. Not everyone, but they're known for this. People who do this will advise each other to go check with the Walmart and get permission to sleep out in the parking lot. That is an option that would be perhaps safer than what you have done. But what it involves is going to another human being and saying, I want to sleep in this parking lot.

And when they say, why? You say, I just feel like it. You are choosing a liminal, a marginal lifestyle that a lot of people would not choose, but are forced to out of extremely dire circumstances. And it's hard to square with the fact that your guys' circumstances are not dire. Your dad is willing to bankroll living situations. Obviously, Rhi, you're paying rent.

And you're trying to stay within what we call civilization, right? You're going to look for a job. You're paying your dad rent. You're trying to make good. And you're also trying to be a good brother by letting little Jan the hobo in from time to time. But Jan, you're really choosing a very liminal lifestyle that has a lot of dangers associated with it and it's my job to evaluate whether uh this should be allowed to continue with regard to your own safety or whether i'm going to need to drop a dime to every creeper muffler shop in atlanta area and tell them watch out out, dude's sleeping in your lots. You know, Jan, I don't think you appreciate how fortunate you are to have a dad who's not only willing to help you out financially,

but also is like super agent cool enough to be like, hey, stop growing weed in my backyard. You could have gotten into some serious stuff for that. I don't care how proficient you are in Chinese character writing. This stuff has consequences. The stuff that you're doing has potential consequences that you are, rather, present, at least, as being very blithely unaware to. But I'm not your dad, and so I have to evaluate whether or not I or Rhi have any standing to force you into a more normal lifestyle.

Rhi, your argument that the car is going to get too hot, well, I know it gets very hot in Atlanta very quickly, and we're releasing this in the late stages of spring. But there is a termination point on this, because Jan is going to go to China for the summer. You know, when I make these calls, I often think to myself, first of all, what does my gut tell me?

Second, is it possible for me to find in favor of the person that I've been openly mocking for the entire time? There's part of me that would love to do that, to just throw a curveball and tell yon to live in his car until he feels like moving on to whatever the next weird thing he's going to do you know build a secret yurt in the campus center or something because you're super charming you're super fun you have not only successfully affected eccentricity i

believe you are legitimately eccentric your your roth ira plan is truly speaks to a decision tree that i do not understand and i appreciate that but at the same time, I do not want to have done this podcast and found in your favor and two weeks from now or whatever else, read about you getting hurt or arrested because your living arrangement right now is not secure. I think you need to go camping, get some of this out of your system. I think you need to go camping, get some of this out of your system. I think you need to go to China. I think you need to think about what you are going to accept from your dad. And if you don't want to accept help from your dad, what you're going to do,

which is both accepting financial help from your parents and not accepting it are very valid and honorable choices to make. But it's like you're avoiding that choice because you're going to sleep in the car and you're going to rent out the apartment that he buys you or whatever else. While you're in China, I want you to think about, what am I going to accept from my dad to get going in life? And if I'm going to accept nothing from him, what am I going to do in order to sleep inside in a house or apartment with a door that can lock, where I cannot be seen by anyone passing by.

I'm going to give you to the first of next month, and then I'm evicting you out of your car, Jan. I hate to buzz market this company, but get yourself tonight over to the Walmart and say, I want to sleep in your parking lot. Is that okay? And hear what they have to say. I don't want you to trespass tonight. And then by the first, I want you out of your car. I want you in your brother's apartment.

And then I want you to go to China and I want you to do some deep thinking out there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And also while you're staying with your brother, don't grow weed in the bathtub. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Jan, how are you feeling? Pretty good. No complaints. I mean... Did it never matter to you? I mean, no. It did. I mean, I'm going to have to move in with my brother, which, I mean, is not a problem, but it's going to... You're going to gonna pay rent you understand yeah you're gonna help your brother too yeah you're

gonna clean out the kitty litter yeah i'll clean out the kitty litter thank you it's his cat what his cat how did we get this far into this without you complaining, Rhi, that your brother who lives in a car left his cat with you? Well, he's kind of the family cat, but I adopted him, so... Rhi? It was either he... Yeah. Don't be a doormat for Jan. I guess. I don't know. The cat's really cute, though. He weighs... Yeah, he's a fat cat, and he's just really cute.

So I'm not complaining. Make sure he cleans out the litter. Make sure he gives you some rent money. Figure it out. This is the cost. This is what you get for trying to be nice to your brother. You've got to live with him. Sorry, Jesse, I jumped in on you.

You want to ask Ree how he feels? Ree, how do you feel? Not about the cat. We get it. It's a fat cat. It's cute, etc. I feel good. I'm not psyched about him coming to live with me,

but I mean, it'll be fine. It'll be fine because he's leaving for China the 9th of May, so he'll be there for like eight days. So it's like, it's fine. And he's going to pay rent, so you can just put that right in your roth ira exactly this just occurred to me and i i feel i feel dumb now re do you think this was your brother's plan all along to live in his car until you were forced to take him in no i don't think he's got that kind of fore, I don't think he's got that kind of foresight.

You don't think he's got that kind of foresight? He's got plans to put money in his Roth IRA. He's 21 years old. No, listen, listen. That's the finances side of him. The devious social part of his brain isn't that developed. It was like first grade, he announced that he wanted to be an accountant. So the finances thing has already been a thing. But yeah, he's not that devious. Well, I wish both of you the best. Thank you for joining us

on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. And for letting me decide your housing situation, both of you, I'm going to make a $50 contribution, both of you, to your Roth IRAs. Perfect. Drop in the bucket. Let producer Jennifer, you know, with the miracle of compounding interest, that will eventually grow to be a sizable nest egg. You'll thank me for it later, son.

You won't have to pay taxes until the end. It's tax deferred. Triple tax deferred. Jennifer Marmer, make sure I get payment information for these guys. And I said I'd give them 50. Now I'm going to give them 40. If there are any more complaints, I can go to 30. Okay? All right. said I'd give him 50. Now I'm going to give him 40. If there are any more complaints, I can go to 30.

Okay. All right. Good luck down there in Atlanta. Well, that's another case in the books, Judge Hodgman. We've got some swift justice coming in just a minute. But first, a thank you to Rick Gutierrez for naming this week's episode Vehicular Man Squatter. You, too, can name a future episode by liking Judge John Hodgman on Facebook. We put out our calls for submissions there. And also, don't forget social medias. You can follow us on Twitter. Jesse is at Jesse Thorne. I am at Hodgman.

Hashtag your Judge John Hodgman tweets. Hashtag JJ Ho. And check out the Maximum fun subreddit to discuss this episode. I've been doing it more recently. A lot of nice people there, as I think Jesse has said before, it's the one nice place on Reddit.

This episode recorded partly at paper boy studios in Atlanta, Georgia are thanks to them. Boy paper boy, all about that paper boy. And our producer is of course, Jennifer Marmer, the great Jay Marms. Here's a swift justice question. J.R. says, I'm irrationally irritated when people use the phrase tons of to describe volume. That's not normally quantified by weight, like tons of free parking.

What's wrong with me? I don't know, but whatever's wrong with you is now wrong with me. I never thought of that before, and now it's all I can think of. Yeah, you can be irrationally irritated about anything you want, as long as you do not pedantically correct the person who is saying a simple thing. Andy D. wants to know, should a bagel with cream cheese be eaten open-faced or sandwiched? First of all, thank you, Andy D, for not asking if it counts as a sandwich.

Because a hot dog is not a sandwich, but I can't think about what is and is not sandwiches anymore. but I can't think about what is and is not sandwiches anymore. A bagel with cream cheese should be served open-faced and consumed open-faced when eaten in a home, when eaten on the go, dealer's choice. You ever go to the bagel dealer? Jesse, greatest bagels in Brooklyn. Bagel dealer. The only problem is you have to buy 52 of them.

And then they toss them at you. Wow, this is getting really complicated, this premise. Is the bagel dealer Ricky J? Yeah, Ricky J can throw a bagel such that it sticks into a watermelon. Submit your cases at MaximumFun.org slash JJHO or email them to Hodgman at MaximumFun.org. As you just heard, no case is too small. We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Gavel, gavel, gavel. MaximumFun.org. Comedy and culture. Artist owned. Gavel, gavel, gavel.