Judge John Hodgman - Weight Weight... Don't Judge Me!

Episode Date: September 5, 2013

Chad and Elizabeth like to challenge each other to the occasional friendly weight loss competition. But they differ on how to measure the losing winner. Can Judge Hodgman weigh the options?

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm your guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte. This week, wait, wait, don't judge me. Chad and Elizabeth are a married couple who occasionally challenge each other to a friendly weight loss competition. However, they can't agree on how to measure the weight loss and determine the winner. Heavy stuff. Who watches the Weight Watchers? Judge Hodgman will weigh the options. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom. $3.99 for all you can eat?

Well, I'm going to stuff my face to a funky beat. I'm going to walk inside and guess what's up? Put some food in my plate, some name brand soda in my cup, give me some chicken franks and fries, and you can pass on the lettuce. I'll pass it by, so keep shoveling onto onto my plate give me some sweets and lots of cake give me some hot macaroni and cheese give me some more food please and also yes bailiff monty belmonti swear them in chad elizabeth please rise do you swear to tell the truth the whole whole truth, and nothing but the truth,

so help you Jillian Michaels or whatever? I do. I do. Thank you. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Chad and Elizabeth, first of all, I had a little summer cold. I'm a little raspy. I'm a little Valerie Harper right now.

Love it. Yeah. And I'm a little late. I apologize for being late to the podcast i'm here out in the in in the internetless hills of western massachusetts and the internetless valleys internetless hills and internet full valleys yes with guest bail with monty belmonti here at wrsi the river monty i'm sorry i was caught behind a uh a tractor on my way here is that 47 that's why you have the uh the trucker

hat on now i'm wearing my country pie hat from country pie pizza in ashfield massachusetts but no i was caught behind a tractor uh uh uh full of shade tobacco i saw a tractor of shade tobacco the other day it is harvesting time for shade tobacco yeah and they know what they do with that they make it into cigar wrappers yeah they, they send it to the Dominican Republic. Did you know that the Connecticut River Valley, Chad and Elizabeth, is famous for its tobacco crop? I had no idea. No clue. You just learned something about the Connecticut River Valley, also known as the Pioneer Valley here in Massachusetts.

Where are you guys? We're in Blacksburg, Virginia. Oh, what crops do you raise around there? They're Blacksburg lettuce. It's like iceberg lettuce, but it's black. And a lot of college students, scantily clad college students at this time of year. Really? This is the home of Virginia Tech.

Oh, Virginia Tech, the fighting technicians. What is the name of your sports ball team? Virginia Tech. The Hokies. The Hokies? Go Hokies. That's right. All right, for an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, Chad or Elizabeth,

can you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom? Chad, can you? Was it a song called I Love McDonald's? No. And I can't think of the name of the artist. No. was it a song called i love mcdonald's no i can't think of the name of the artist no but because of that i'm going to sing to you my favorite jad fair and daniel johnson song mcdonald's on the brain before the end of this podcast oh really maybe you can sing it for me for an immediate summary judgment in your favor elizabeth can you sing they've got mcdonald's on the brain by jad fair and daniel johnson oh okay if memory serves i've got mcdonald's on the brain by jad fair and daniel johnson uh okay if memory serves

i've got mcdonald's on the brain it's plain to see uh oh man on their 15 minute break he said to me will we sure make those big macs fast they've got mcdonald's on the brain it's plain to see sit around on their 15 minute break showing their scars on their arms they talk about how fast they make those hamburgers and talk about the time that they got burned everybody they've got mcdonald's on the brain it's plain to see end of song that's the whole song almost you got half a judgment. Can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? Oh, I'm afraid I can't. You were barking up the right tree wrongly. No, not even close, actually.

It was from the song All You Can Eat by, let me hear you say, Fat Boys. Yeah, Fat Boys. I knew I recognized it. I was thinking Run the mc but i couldn't figure out where just like 10 years too late performed in one of the worst cases of buzz marketing in in the history of american cinema uh in in a in a completely unnecessary video break in the middle of the otherwise fine film crush groove where the fat boys all three of them cool rock ski buffy the human beatbox and the third one well i can't remember his name chubby checker no no no no but they did team up with chubby checker and the fat boys doing the twist

remember yeah of course just yeah cover for me for a second while hey i know the whole mcdonald's menu song that i learned in the 80s big mac mcdealty a quarter pounder with some cheese a hamburger a cheeseburger, a Happy Mimlic Nugget, safety, golden french fries, regular or larger size of salad, chef or gardener, chicken salad, oriental, big league breakfast, egg, meat, muffin, hot dog. You got it? Cakes and sauces, maybe a biscuit, bacon, egg and cheese and sausage, Danish hash browns, two and four dessert, hot apple pies and sundaes.

Cool Rockski. Oh, where are they? And a drink of Coca-Cola. Prince Marky D, of course. Prince Marky D, Cool Rockski and Buff Love, a.k.a. Buffy the Human Beatbox. Darren Robinson. Rest in peace, of course, Darren Robinson, who pioneered human beatboxing sort of alongside Dougie Fresh. In the same way that, what's his name?

Apple on the head. Newton. Isaac Newton. I went through all these scientists very quickly. Developed the calculus at the exact same time that I believe it was Leibniz. Also developed the calculus independently. Leibniz, now I've got to look that up. And to drink a Coca-Cola, Diet Coke, an orange breaker, a second coffee, decaf, too low, fat milk, also an orange juice.

I love McDonald's, good time, great great taste and I get this all in one place McDonald's better underwrite this program at this point oh right I forgot all about that yeah you started it and I can't believe that you just did that to me oh that's right I did start it didn't I yeah it was a calculator it was Leibniz I was right that's not

that's a kind of nerd that I didn't know you were what a human beatbox human beatbox nerd? I got some, I had some, I know Jesse Thorne. My understanding of hip hop, like most culture, terminates at 1993. But, and of course, Darren Robinson, the human beatbox pioneer in the field, very sadly passed in 1995 uh because he was too big he was uh he died of a heart attack he weighed 450 pounds do you know what his age was chatter elizabeth when he died i don't want to go with 33 no 28 years old it's a tragedy and the idea that this song so so in the middle of the song the

three the fat boys go to sparrows since we're buzz marketing all over the place and basically do a sparrows commercial during a time in the 80s when you could rap about totally giving yourself type two diabetes in a single sitting and it was not it was not loathsomely offensive and then of course they just they were they were known in the movie as the disco three and then like you know what we should call ourselves the fat boys that's our gimmick and uh and and it was a gimmick that killed at least one of them i mean the other two are still alive so i guess exactly one i don't partially killed one of them. I mean, the other two are still alive, so I guess exactly one. It partially killed one of them.

I think Kulorowski's lost a lot of weight, but I'm not sure about that. Maybe someone can write it. They're still reaping royalties from disorderlies. Yes, starring which of the two evil elderly brothers from Trading Places? Which of the Dukes? I don't know. I'm going to go with Randolph Duke.

I don't know. Yeah, played by whom? You can't think of his name right now. The non-Don Amici. Bellamy. Ralph Bellamy? Ralph Bellamy. Bill Bellamy. Not Bill Bellamy. That's another old hip-hop

reference. Well, this has been the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast summer edition. Chad and Elizabeth, what are your ages? I'm 40. I'm 41. All right. And you're a married couple? Correct. And how long have you been married?

We just had our seventh anniversary, I believe. And you live in Virginia tech, Virginia, home of the Hokie cat carpet sweepers. That's exactly right. And, uh, what are your current height and weight? For both. Well, uh, I am five 10 and we're currently in the middle of one of these weight,

weight loss competitions. Oh, you're in the middle of a comp? Right now, yeah. We have five days left, I think. So how long is the competition? One month. So 30 days or 31 days or 28 days or 29 days? We usually just do first of the month to first of the month.

Oh, so you're doing it for August. That's right. Yeah. Which is when we're recording this. The end for August. That's right. Yeah. Which is when we're recording this. The end of August. The twilight of summer as we move into September days when we start the harvest time. It's tobacco harvest time when you start packing it on. All right.

So right now, where do things stand? Elizabeth, you are 5'10", a tall one, and you weigh? At the beginning of the competition, I weighed 176.9 all right let's say 177 uh-huh and now and check as of as of today as a way in i haven't uh we haven't ended the competition yet we don't have a scale at our, so we kind of have a little ritualistic weigh-in at the gym. And we only go at the beginning at the end, so I haven't weighed myself since then. Oh, you haven't weighed yourself since then. That's right.

She hasn't, but I have. Because you're a cheater. I'm an obsessive cheater. All right. If you were to guess, Elizabeth, how are you doing? Thumbs up, thumbs medium, or thumbs down in this weight loss comp? I think I'm going to say thumbs medium because I had some good momentum, but a couple of setbacks. A couple of setbacks in the form of an all-you-can-eat buffet at Sbarro?

I think Sbarro's is out of business now. Thanks to you. I don't think so, really. I think I just saw a Sbarro at the food court in the southbound Main Turnpike Plaza. Yes, my friends Mark and Bella came in right from their vacation from Kennebunkport. They went to go look for that man, by the way, and the first thing he said to me when I saw him was, fresh bananas.

They saw the banana man? They saw the bananas, and the first thing he said to me when I saw him was, fresh bananas. They saw the banana man? They saw the bananas, but the banana man was gone. They were so disappointed. They just saw the bananas? They did see the bananas. They looked mealy. That's what I've been told. Once the banana man's not there to guard them and make sure that they're fresh, they just go. We'll come back to the banana man.

We'll put a pin in the banana man for now. Okay, thumbs medium. Alright, Chad, what is your height? I'm 5'11", I believe. And how much height have you lost since the beginning of August? I've been slouching quite a bit. I believe at the beginning of the competition I was 179.6. And if I had to guess today, I would be about 176.

Well, you said you weighed yourself. Yeah, it was a few days ago. You weigh different every day. Every moment of the day. That's true. Yes. If you're truly obsessive, you know this. Oh, I know.

I am obsessive. What is your height? I'm 5'10", uh between 179 and 181 that's nice currently on the weight watchers why you look fantastic you look fantastic well you know i do and here's why i'm also 5 10 i'm i have not weighed myself since i got to massachusetts but i but i have lost probably about 12 pounds. Really? Since, well, since the spring. Yeah. When you decided to kill and eat your own food.

So, yeah, I have noticed that, and that's why I haven't weighed myself in Massachusetts, because you fluctuate constantly throughout the day. It's just a pain, it just gets in your head. Plus, you're in internetless hills, so you may weigh more there, or less, depending on the gravitational pull. Yeah, but it takes it takes me longer to cook eggs because of the because of the lack of oxygen because the air pressure all right so wait we were talking to chad was weighing in at 179.6 so we'll say 180 huh yeah that's right i round up and last time you weighed yourself you weighed what i think it was 176 maybe 176 and a

half so 177 somebody who is that particular about their weight should know between 176 and 176 and a half so you've lost three so chat you lost three pounds so far since last weigh-in that's right all right and elizabeth where you think you got him beat with three pounds or far since last weigh-in that's right all right and elizabeth where you think you got him beat with three pounds or you think you're you think you're i think you're tied i think i might be competitive yeah i think i'd be i think i might have a hair lead on that yeah i don't think i don't think i don't think chad's got anything to brag about with three pounds sorry chad seriously you can you can vary you can vary to brag about with three pounds. Sorry, Chad. Seriously. You can vary your body weight with three pounds within three days,

depending on how much you hydrate and how many martinis you drink. Take it from me. Take it from me. I don't want to get gross, but depending on how often you evacuate waste products from your body, that could also be three pounds right there. There was that Fourth of July party at your house where I lost a lot of weight that Fourth of July. Yeah, downstairs in the kid's bathroom. Gross. Well, so this is actually accounted for in the competition rules.

accounted for in the competition rules. We are free to do anything we want the day before the competition starts or the day before the competition ends to up our advantage. This is what you call sandbagging? Well, yeah. Sandbagging would be like bloating up before the initial

weigh-in, like eating a very salty dinner the night before or drinking a lot. Yeah. But we could also, you know, take laxatives or diuretics. Yeah, please don't. Don't do that. I don't think either of us ever have, but it's generally a no-holds-barred type of situation. All right.

And so the idea is that after 30 days, whoever has lost the most, and we're talking raw pounds here, right? We're talking about the most number of pounds. That's right. So this is the dispute. Right. No, I understand. This is me setting it up there, Chad. Let me do my job.

My apologies. That's all right. Remember how I couldn't remember that member of the Fat Boys? Prince Marquis. Did I get it right or wrong? I think you got it wrong. Big Mac McDeal to you, Connor. I'm still on Leibniz.

Yeah, Prince Marquis D. All right, anyway. Is he related to Biz Marquis? Yeah. All right. So the idea is that you weigh... Competition is whoever loses the most pounds All right. So the idea is that that you weigh you. Competition is whoever loses the most pounds and whoever wins, whoever wins gets what?

In this for this particular competition, whoever loses has to buy dinner. Whoever wins gets dinner bought for them at a certain like we're we have plans to go out. And during then the winner gets dinner bought for them at a certain, like we have plans to go out and during then the winner gets dinner bought for them. Okay. And aside from sandbagging, where are you going to go to dinner? What's the best place to go? Well, we're actually going to Charlotte, North Carolina, which is just a few hours away. We have a little overnight trip planned to see the National perform down there. And yeah, so we'll go down and see them, and then we have to have dinner, of course, and so that's the occasion for it, although we haven't identified the restaurant yet.

Okay. How many times have you done this? This is probably the third. Sure, that's a good guess. We're not sure. So the winner gets a free dinner and also a roller coaster ride on the Yo-Yo Dieting Express? Exactly. And, of course, you know, smirking rights. Okay. We'll get to the underlying psychological problems to this whole thing in a moment, but I just want to make sure I understand. And so the sandbagging, that's allowed,

where you purposefully blowed up before initial weigh-in in order to fudge the stats. And then there's also temptation. That is allowed. Describe what that is, Chad. One member of our household is particularly susceptible to eating all of the cookies or brownies that might be in a house at a given time. And so people are free to make all the brownies they want and leave them uncovered in the kitchen and see who eats them. And who would make the brownies and who would eat all of the brownies in the house?

I would eat all the brownies in the house. Right, okay. And I would tend not to make them for myself for that reason. Okay. Do you know how to make brownies? I do. I have made brownies many times. And if you were to tempt Elizabeth with some foodstuff that she could not resist, what would it be?

Elizabeth with some food stuff that she could not resist, what would it be? So the problem is the food stuff that she could not resist, I also could not resist. So this sabotage tends to be a one-way street here. Oh, so she just sabotages you. That's right. I could make nachos and she would eat them, but so would I. There's not a whole lot I can make that I wouldn't eat. You have absolutely no self-control. It's a problem.

All right. But my philosophy is we're going to eat all the brownies eventually, so why not just do it now? Yeah, that's fallacious reasoning on a lot of different levels. That's that's fallacious reasoning on a lot of different levels. There's someone I know whom I happen to be married to who believes that unlike Cool Hand Luke in the movie Cool Hand Luke, she could eat 50 hard boiled eggs in an hour. And her reasoning is. She can eat one egg why not 50 she could eat one egg and then another why not eat 50 eggs in succession and then why not eat keep eating eggs until you've eaten 50 and then stop?

Kobayashi does it. Well, right, but that's because Kobayashi, the legendary competitive eater, which, by the way, is the most, that is the one non-sport that I loathe more than any real sport. That is the most, competitive eating, and I look forward to your cards and letters, competitive eating is the most offensive thing you can do to food, face and, and, uh, and, uh, wantonly displaying the excess calories that this country produces that do not get around to the rest of the world. So there, are you, either of you guys competitive eaters?

No, I think we probably ultimately would agree with you. You're competitive, not eaters, I guess. You would agree, you would agree with me when Chad isn't shoving his face full of brownies, thinking that time doesn't matter in the world. You got to pace your brownies out there, Chad. This might be part of your problem. But here's the thing. You guys healthy in every other respect?

Yes. I would say so. you guys healthy in every other respect? Yes. Yeah. Do you want to lose weight in a real way over time and maintain a different and healthier, presumably, weight? Or do you guys just want to have crazy contests with your bodies? We do want to so the inspiration for the contest is that we actually do wish to be thinner in a long-term and sustainable way but since weight fluctuates moment to moment as you guys have noted uh that's you know we we have no problem throwing a little bit of um you know, wild cards in there,

like the brownies and the bloating and things like that. Right. But the idea is not just to go bananas and have crazy body competitions. If you need some fresh bananas, I know where you can get some fresh bananas, by the way. If you want to go bananas, they're all up there at the southbound service plaza on the main turnpike in kennebunk main courtesy jonathan the fresh banana man yeah um i buzz marketed that guy quite a bit he has got a

career ahead of him now thanks to you john hodgman the the competition usually starts when one of us announces they're feeling a little heavy and then the other one kind of uh challenges them to get rid of it and what what are the ways that you then choose to lose weight i mean chad in your case not at all elizabeth how are you how are you losing weight like i'll do away with a nighttime snack for example example, you know, try to find the little tricks that everybody says to try to cut calories, but also amping up exercise a bit too. Okay. What kind of exercise are you involved in?

Well, I guess I do different, um, during a diet competition, I'll try to run interval. I've been sprinting up a hill because I heard that interval running or interval training is a fat burner yeah so I've been doing that during this competition where you run as fast as you can for like 3 minutes

and then you fast walk for 2 minutes and you run as fast as you can for 3 minutes and back and forth like that just short bursts of fast yeah that's right that's right. Right. That's one way to do it,

but my sprints on this are more like 30 seconds. Okay, and you're going straight up a hill? Yeah. Uh-huh. So what is the dispute here, Elizabeth? Seems like you guys have a happy, dysfunctional relationship. Where does the dispute come in? Well, only that I don't want to have the competition rest on sheer poundage lost, because I feel that is unfair, because men lose weight typically more easily than women do.

And every time I've told anybody about our weight loss competitions, like friends or my brother, they'll instantly say, oh, and Chad's probably lost 10 pounds right away or something like that. Or else they'll note that it's not fair. And I guess that got to me after a little while. And I thought, yeah, that isn't fair. And I did notice how easy it was for Chad. And so I wish for the rules to be changed to give him a bit of a handicap during the competition. So this contention that men lose weight faster than women, I did a little poking around on the Internet and you sent some evidence, but it feels pretty anecdotal, the evidence to me. Right.

And if anything, and this is where you're getting it from the scientific argument that men have you heard this before i have heard this but i always assumed it was anecdotal too i think because basically it comes down to what i mean you send in some evidence and i reviewed i actually happen to review the same webmd documents that you sent because that's all it comes down to right he's like well i mean the only thing people can say is, well, men are too, men are, men like to eat meat and women love chocolate. It's all really sexist, weird, dumb stuff like that. And then as men have more lean muscle mass because they have more testosterone. And that somehow burns calories more than, you know, a woman walking around full of fat or whatever. I didn't see any.

Do you really believe what you're saying to me about men? I mean, just look at your own husband, Elizabeth. Chad has been going now for 20 days, right? And he's lost, he's quote unquote lost three pounds. I don't see him, you know, just dripping the weight off. Are you suggesting that he's doing a tortoise and a hare with you there? You would contend that Chad loses weight faster than you? I certainly would, yes.

I just don't think that his having lost only three pounds so far is necessarily representative of his, of the speed with which he can usually lose weight you're saying he has an unnatural gender specific not an unnatural but a gender specific advantage yes i think so how many how many times have you held this competition again not very often only maybe only three times and it was interrupted by me being pregnant and having a baby so this is actually that's going to throw the results a little bit. Yeah, but then you can lose the weight a lot faster, and then you can win next time.

Yeah, we should actually have nine months in a row. Once you take that baby out, you lose like eight pounds, five ounces. So if we take out the one that was interrupted by pregnancy, you've done this twice before. Who won the first one? You know, the first time we did it, the actual impetus to doing it was we were at the gym together when we realized we weighed exactly the same amount. Right. And we both lost six and a quarter pounds that month. Uh-huh.

So you evened Steven. It was a tie. You both bought each other brownie dinner. That's exactly right. Second time? I don't know. I'm pretty sure I won maybe the next one, and she won the one after that, but we haven't kept detailed records.

So aside from articles that you're getting on the Internet, Elizabeth, there's no real-world to suggest that chad actually does lose weight faster than you or seems to have a gender-specific advantage unless there's some other evidence you'd like to present to that well right other than the fact that men do have a is it lower higher muscle or lower body fat index or higher muscle mass. A higher muscle to fat ratio? Yes. And of course, we haven't measured our own specific muscle and fat ratio.

But other than the fact that men have higher muscle to fat ratio, and Chad is a man, and that muscle burns more calories than fat. Other than that, no, I do not have any additional evidence. So you're not suggesting data, you're just suggesting common sense. Is Chad a big muscly dude? Uh, I guess

not. Yeah, because I'd say 5'10". You're 5'10", Chad? That's right. And you're 5'10 Chad and you're weighing 179 right now that's right I'm looking at Monty Belmonte

I'll stand up Monty's going to be your body double right because you're also 5'10 179, 181 that's your thing right around that window yeah am I fat? you look great but you don't look like a muscleman you're also 5'10", 179, 181, that's your thing. Right around that window, yeah. Yeah. Am I fat? You look great.

But you don't look like a muscleman. What if I do this? You don't look like a huge man who's walking around just burning 30 calories with every stride. What if I told you I'm wearing Spanx and that these are husky jeans? None of that would surprise me. All right. So let's throw out the pseudoscience, shall we, Elizabeth? What other argument do you have?

Well, I guess that's all the argument. I think I am. That's all my argument for now, I guess. I don't think I'm as susceptible to some, maybe a little bit, but to some of the cultural stuff you know like that women can't resist brownies and stuff like that no chad chad can't resist brownies yeah he might right he might more have the psychological hang-ups but i do think i don't think it's pseudoscience i think it's um i think some common sense is true so yeah but here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing i i don't i don't think it's i mean i. Yeah, but here's the thing. I don't think it's who's...

I mean, I think there's some logic to what you're saying, but you guys are about the same size. I mean, it seems pretty even-Steven to me. Right. So you're saying all other factors being even, Chad has an incremental advantage just because he's a dude, and therefore he should be handicapped or he should be given an advantage of what kind? I just want to say that Chad himself recognizes his advantage because only two weeks ago he was bragging that he couldn't believe how much weight he had lost and he wasn't even trying that hard. Yeah, but don't you understand he's playing head games with you.

That's why he's only weighing himself after he swills down cucumber sabotages and goes on a brownie tour of the midwest he did look he looked considerably thinner while he was bragging i mean maybe part of the head game was standing at an angle that made him look thinner or under a specific kind of lighting or something was he wearing vertical stripes maybe it works for me come to think of it chad talk to me talk to me about your male privilege. Do you acknowledge an advantage in losing weight because of your dudeness? I don't think that sort of thing. Yeah, I certainly know that that's not true. Yeah, I know. He's playing another game on me.

He's playing a game on all of us right now. I also agree with sexism. I also dislike sports judge hodgman i agree the competitive eating is offensive but it's endearing when my wife wants to competitively eat hard-boiled eggs i'm just a rabbit taking a nap under this tree, waiting for the tortoise to pass me. And then I'm going to go, meep, meep, meow. But stripping out that stuff, the other part of the argument about people with more muscle mass, or the argument about muscle mass burning calories more quickly, that seems to be an argument regarding long-term weight maintenance, not an argument regarding what you can do in 30 days.

Because it seems to me, if we're going to rely on common sense, as it seems like we are, the flip side is that fat burns off quicker than muscle mass burns off. So in 30 days, it's easier to drop fat weight than it is to drop muscle weight. And I'm pure muscle. Is that true, Elizabeth? Is he pure muscle. Is that true, Elizabeth? Is he pure muscle? He's not impure muscle. Neither of you guys sent in photographs of yourselves as evidence so that I could evaluate whether you're apple-shaped or pear-shaped, whether you're better suited to a Atkins-style low-carb or slow-carb diet or a high-fiber or boo-boo-boo-boo-boo-boo-boo.

Right. So what specifically I'm asking for is that we still have the contest rest on sheer poundage, but chad's sheer poundage counts 125 percent 125 that's right so like if um that's quite a negotiating stance that's also a lot of math to try to figure out who wins that's true exactly well in other words i don't want to do this competition so how would this work How would this work in practice? Okay, so like if we, if Chad law, wait, how would it work?

If we start, let's say you start at 177 and Chad starts at one, whatever he started at. What did you start at, Chad? 181? 179? 180? 179 and change. Alright, so 180. Be quiet, Chad.

Elizabeth, let's say you start at 177, he starts at 180. We get to Labor Day of this year, 2013. You have both lost based on past performance, I'm going to say

three pounds. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Through your wind sprints and your not eating brownies all the time diet. Uh-huh. And now you're 170. Now you're 170, whatever, 174. Yeah, see, math is hard.

And he's 177. By sheer poundage, it's a tie but you're saying you would win because how would you do this math his pounds count for less or something that's exactly right so um my oh okay so if he if i lost four pounds he would have to lose five pounds to equal that, to equal my four pounds. Okay. So he has to lose a quarter more to equal my weight. And then obviously it's still more to win. And why not just do it as a percentage of body weight? Well, because we're so close. And so that would be negligible is what was our thought. Was that our thought or your thought? Did you think it too? Well, again, the first time we did it, we weighed the same

and so that we were easy to, it was easy to bypass that question the first time we did it because it wasn't a question and that was actually part of the reason for doing it was there was no math to do. But since then we've just stuck with the original plan. But yeah, I don't want to do the math. You don't want to do but since then we've just stuck with the original plan right but yeah i don't want to do the math you don't want to do the math i don't want to do the math i don't want to figure out

if i lost 2.8 percent of my body weight well no all you do able to say i lost four pounds all you all you do all you do yeah i know you can say whatever you want to to other people that you're trying to psych out i'm just saying why not do it as the the ending weight as a percentage of the beginning weight and the difference or am i just right that would be well that's still math yeah that's still math but not not your crazy math when they're waiting so other so closely and they're only losing this negligible amount, it probably wouldn't pan out much differently. I did the math. If we both lost five

pounds at our current weight, I would have lost 2.9% of my body weight, and she would have lost 2.8% of her body weight. Yeah, you win. Yeah, but I don't want to do the math again. And again, this is really about... Well, no, but there's't want to do the math again. And again, this is really about... There's a difference between simple percentages

that anyone should be able to do versus a weird handicapping based on illusory or disputed gender difference that is complicated and weird that I can't even do.

1.25. i have a hard enough time figuring out the tip yeah how much you guys really how much you guys tip at the restaurants dinner conversation say it again and we're really here trying to set up some dinner conversation for the future we're going to tell people about this all the time. And I don't want to say 2.8%. Now what head games are you playing? Are you saying this entire court case has been set up so that you guys can have something to talk about in the future? No, this is why we do the competition.

But now when you say Judge John Hodgman adjudicated and involved with it, now that's a really nice over the dinner story i'm just a pawn in your weird game chad i'm going i'm going back over to my my the the fried foods tent in my chambers and i'm going to comfort myself i'm going to seek solace in a in a bunch of fried dough and deep fried hot dogs. And I'll be back in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. All right.

You guys. Yeah. Chad. Liz. Yeah. Can you really divide this along gender lines? Is this something that might not have more to do with an individual person's height, metabolism? Elizabeth?

Can I call you Liz? I called you Liz. You don't like that. I don't like Liz, I confess. No, I usually go by Elizabeth. Okay, you're Elizabeth to me now forever. Thanks. Could this be more to do with his metabolism?

He's an inch taller than you, right? That's right. So can you really say that the gender thing? I, I still think so because I think the gender results in a body composition difference. And, and I think the body composition difference is why it's become a commonplace for people or seem like common sense for men to lose weight more easily than women. What about you, Chad? Do you think that it has more to do with an individual's metabolism rather than overall gender delineation? I do. And I think Elizabeth and I both try about equal amounts with regard to exercise and eating right that we've maintained body weights consistently for long periods of time.

So I think we're pretty equivalent in how we have figured out our metabolism and what we expect from it. Do you guys compete in other strata on a regular basis? Are you just a competitive couple? I would normally say no, but I have, since we've been scheduled for the Judge John Hodgman show, I've been noting some ways that maybe we are more than I realized. So, well, one way is we're always playing Scrabble on our phones. So we've been playing Scrabble for probably three years or something constantly.

But also, Chad has a little race with me every night over who's the first person to turn off their light to go to sleep so you guys are just competitive by nature I guess maybe a little bit although I wouldn't like I said I wouldn't have said that naturally that we were before I started thinking about it and noticing it and I can't think of any other ways that we are, but the Scrabble is probably the most dramatic way. Could you be comfortable, Elizabeth, if Chad just weighed less than you in actual pounds on the scale, because he's an inch taller than you, if at any time he weighs less than you, he is winning.

Because you're of similar height and similar weight. Right. So, sorry, what's the question? Undisputed champ, Chad, if he at any time drops below your body weight. Um, I guess so, but I'd probably give him the baton because it was easier for him somehow, you know? Hmm. All right. What she's saying is she won't accept a loss unless the odds were stacked.

That's not true. She needs a head start in your opinion, Jen. She expects to win. I think if she doesn't win, she's concerned that the odds were stacked. You guys are married. Race is over. Take off the uniform. That's what I said.

Just go back to eating whatever you want. Drinking as many cocktails as you'd like. We'll be right back with Judge John Hodgman's decision. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org. And they are all your favorites. If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh, boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to MaximumFun.org slash join. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by the folks over there at Babbel. Did you know

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litigants normally i'm just sitting here listening i'm'm only pretending to have left the room. This time I did leave the room because I've got this summer cold and I had to hack up half a lung. I think I lost about three pounds in phlegm alone just a few minutes ago. Cough button right there. That cough button isn't going to stop me. Listen to this.

I couldn't tell what I was hearing through the headphones or not. That was 13 more ounces of weight lost. And so now I'm back to you, a thinner and happier person. Look, guys, first of all, let's address this issue of gender discrepancy. So much of dietary wisdom is, you know, half scientific, half folklore, and then like a third half of, well, we just don't know how the body works exactly. And it's in constant dispute, and there's so much constant misinformation, new kinds of information, new kinds of theories about how we digest foods, metabolism syndrome, slow carbs, good carbs, bad carbs, vegetarian, you know, it's just, it's too much.

You know what I'm saying? And from a practical point of view, you look at the experience that both of, you know, it's a little bit different for everybody. And you look at the experience that both of you physical specimens have had, where you started out at about the same height and about the same weight and you lost almost the exact same amount of weight doing the exact same kind of weird competitive

stare down dieting I just don't think that on a practical level it's been displayed through the data that you've actually collected that Chad has has an advantage to you. Over you, I should say, in this regard.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm finding in Chad's favor in this case, because I find you both guilty. And here's why. Not losing enough weight, dudes. I don't know what you're doing in your house i mean look six six and a half pounds is better than nothing and on uh on a on a normal person that's good that's better than nothing there's nothing to the former human beatbox, may he rest in peace. But here's the thing.

My understanding has always been, largely through WebMD and other sources, is that healthy weight loss, you lose about two pounds a week if you're on a program. And by program, I'll tell you what I mean. I'll tell you what I've cobbled together through my own experiences of attempting to lose weight. I gained a lot of weight when I stopped smoking 12, 13 years ago. And I've always been thinking about it. I'm not thinking about it too hard because I've been married, so who cares? I did the Atkins.

I did vegetarian. I did vegan for a while and i posted some of these losses uh these five to six to eight pound losses and then you know it goes you you can't keep that up after a while and you get it and you get it all right back again right now i realized that when I was judging and calling for your guys' weights and judging all of you, I didn't tell you what my weight is. When I last went to the doctor for my checkup in November, I weighed 201 pounds. So probably earlier that year,

I probably weighed about 207 pounds. Over the past six months i've i i've i now the last time i weighed myself uh before coming to massachusetts i weighed 189 pounds which is the lowest that i've weighed since i quit smoking and i would like to weigh less right because i'm not posting that's a massive gains for over six months do you know what i mean but i dropped i dropped about 11 12 pounds and i've kept it off and I feel pretty good about that. I feel good about you.

Hey, thanks, friend. And I did this through a combination of my own patented combination of two things, diet and exercise. And particularly on the first thing, I followed the Adam Savage diet. Adam Savage, of course,

is the co-host of Mythbusters and a friend of the show. And he sat me down sometime last fall and said, you know what I've stopped doing? I'm like, what? He said, eating lunch. And he only ate dinner for a year. That's what I've basically been doing for six months.

And it's crazy how little your body actually needs to eat. Now I eat a sensible i eat a sensible lower than 500 calorie lunch and then i just eat whatever i want for dinner including however many actual martinis i want to have and i've maintained this weight loss for a while and it really is pretty remarkable how calorie restriction is the way that you lose weight and if you do and and it is frankly the most responsible way i think to lose weight because i don't necessarily recommend because i don't want humans to die eating only one meal a day because that has psychological consequences too where you just basically eat you know you wait until 5 30 in the afternoon and then you eat a whole jar of mayonnaise believe me i've been there

but i will say that if you that if you if you calorie restriction is the best way to sustainably lose and keep weight off because while not only are you reducing the number of calories that you're taking in, you're retraining how you think about food. Right. You are retraining your body to crave less food. And you are, if you're conscious about it, you are realizing you don't really need to eat all the food that you're eating. And the best way to reduce calories, you know, I think that truly it differs

for every human being. But you're wise to cut out those snacks that you have at night because your body doesn't need those calories that night at nighttime. That's just for you to feel better about yourself as you fall asleep. Or whatever.

And you certainly don't need to eat all the brownies in the house chad under any circumstances because you don't amortize that stuff over time that just immediately transforms into unwanted bulk so i don't know what you guys are doing where you you know it's 20 days and you lost three pounds yeah i don't think i think i don't think you guys are doing it party weight so just do you think i'm wrong i don't think you guys are doing it right well they're oh i don't do i look too fat i feel fat about myself now because you know it's hard to lose weight when you're at a weight that is kind of a good weight for you yeah you look fantastic so maybe they look fantastic and so maybe they can only lose three pounds because they just don't have that much more

weight that they could possibly lose in a healthy way. We're not talking Christian Bale, like going for a roll here. Right. We do both look fantastic. See? But also, yeah, but also the weight loss or the current weight, again, is just not representative of our progress overall we the that dinner party with the martinis was a pretty serious setback in terms of bloated not just in

terms of long-term weight but in terms of bloating etc so liver function we're not yeah we're not quite as pathetic as that minimal weight loss so far no look right but here's the thing and we you guys one of the things you're doing is very healthy is that you are you are well you're competing with each other but you're both engaged with each other's desire to lose weight and be more healthy right i mean that's what this competition is about right it's not just beating the other person down just for the sake of it right right that's right right and that's a much better place to be in than a lot of uh marriages and partnerships of different kinds so i think that i think that one of the things you're doing that is great is that you're reinforcing a more healthy attitude towards life but you know the thing

that's really struck me about this about this thing is this weight that i've lost and i hope to continue to maintain the weight loss and lose it is that it's not a it's not a joke like those splurges do count and the hardest thing in the world honestly is for someone who absolutely defies every defies every magazine article or web md piece in the world absolutely does eat for comfort for solace for emotional fuel do you know what i mean is like is to is to confront the reality is i don't have to eat that right now and if my goal is to lose uh 10 pounds in you know six weeks uh which is i think pretty reasonable goal i'm gonna have to stick to i'm gonna have to stick to the program if my goal is to be the tortoise and to beat the tar out of the smirking hair of

my husband who's sabotaging me with head games and cucumber martinis then it's going to be more than 30 second wind sprints up a hill and it goes for you too chad it sounds like i'm picking on elizabeth but i'm not uh i find in favor of chad You guys are physical equals, more or less, both in terms of your size, your weight, your weight goals, and the rate at which you lose weight. I think pure poundage is a perfectly reasonable gauge. I'm not going to Harrison Berger on this and make him, you know, try to make him equal to you.

Give him a handicap. Because I think you can do it just as easily as he can, Elizabeth. And I think you could do it as a percentage of body weight lost. And you would basically get 2.8 versus 2.9. It would be, as you say, negligible. So if you really wanted to just make it mathematical, that would be fair. But I think pure poundage is an easy rule of thumb. So and I also sentence you both to to another another month.

Yeah, it sounds like. Yeah. You mean the current competition? Yeah. Yeah. You got to extend this. You got to extend this to through. You can't.

Yeah. You know, you're not going to have fun at the national. Well, no, wait a minute.'re not going to have fun at the National. Well, no, wait a minute. You are going to have fun at the National. You're going to get to hear the National play. It's great. But you're not going to that restaurant to be named later. Maybe pogo dance the whole time.

Yeah. You're going to have to. Because if you want to lose the amount of weight that you want to lose, your program has to go longer than, than 30 days. And you need, and you need to be a little bit more, you need to be a little bit more disciplined. You need to defer the rewards a little bit longer than you have been. Mm hmm. So I I say the competition goes on. Through the end of September 2013. Mm hmm. Elizabeth, I'm rooting for you, Chad. I hope you lose.

Nice. All right. And I look forward to hearing an update. And I hope none of you were offended by my assessment of your of your weight and body. I know. Shut up. That's so sorry for guest tale of monty belmonte uh and uh and all and listeners at home i'll i'll echo the sentiments of adam savage uh co-host of mythbusters who always says do not try this at home do not follow any weight loss program that i set out on this podcast because i am not a medical medically trained person or nutritionist consult your doctor or a nutritionist and and make a choice that is wise for you but you guys channel is with you have to do exactly what i say please don't die eat health eat healthily be reasonable go through september el, I hope you win. This is the sound of a

gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all. Chad, Elizabeth, I know John Hodgman just gave that caveat right there, but have you thought about the Judge John Hodgman-a-terranean diet? It is a great program that I think would be great for you for the next 30 days.

It's all lettuce, olive oil, moxie, and sparrows all the time, every meal. What was that third thing? Sparrows. Oh, moxie. Moxie. Oh, moxie. And what are sparrows? It's a cola.

It's a cola. It's not a cola. It's a soda or a tonic. Whoa. It's not a cola. It's a soda or a tonic. Whoa. It's not a cola. A cola is a specific thing. I believe the local Sbarro's has closed down. I think that's why Elizabeth thought they were out of business.

That's a great way to lose weight. There it is. That's part of your diet that you can't access. Oh, but I agree with Monty that eat tons of fresh fruits and vegetables. Tons of fresh vegetables. You can go no wrong. I even enjoy it. You know what I like?

When I'm feeling a hunger pang, a little glass of tomato juice. High in sodium, so you can get the low-sodium kind. I find that to be extremely filling. You know what else is very filling? Water. Yeah. Yeah. I need to drink more water.

Yeah, I drink a lot of water. Yeah. But then you gain all that water weight. Yeah, but that's just water weight. And if you're competing with your wife, it counts. Yeah, well, then don't have any salt at all chad you don't really want to lose weight do you you just want to beat your wife in a competition that could be true when i found out that my wife wanted to lose the baby weight that she we just

had i immediately wanted to start losing weight at the same time because i don't want her to lose more weight than i do when i found out that my wife crocheted me an afghan while I was away studying abroad, I felt so jealous that she kept this from me that I immediately demanded that I be taught how to crochet so that I could keep up with her. That's not healthy, Chad and Elizabeth. At the same time, I don't want Elizabeth to lose weight either. She wants to lose weight. Because you think she's perfect the way she is. Yeah.

I think we're both, we're both quite healthy. I think it's not really about health. It's really just about, we have numbers in our heads of what we think we're supposed to weigh. Well, you don't go for overall. Don't,

don't, don't feed the troll. This is not a total head game. Okay. Just let them look five, ten 175 sounds fantastic to me on both a man and a woman yeah i had no problem with either one of those but seriously elizabeth he's trying to sandbag you with his mind games don't listen yeah he's i think i beat him in scrabble very often and I think that might be something that's motivating him a little bit.

I want to win something. Yeah, that might be. You never will. You won this case, Chad. You won this case. Thank you, Judge. And Elizabeth, just make sure you're always a little bit underweight compared to him, or it'll go straight to his head. And I don't mean in weight.

Yeah. The fat will go straight to his head. Well, thank you so much, Chad. Please check in again and let us know how you do. Should we do some docket clearing? Yeah. I was just pouring this can of Diet Moxie into this bowl of mayonnaise for my mid-afternoon healthy snack. My healthy snack has been tonic and vodka.

Is vodka better for you than... I usually drink a whole bottle of wine or more, and I realize the calorie intake on that is no good. Seriously, everybody, cut out the alcohol. Summer's over. Come on. It's time to start drinking water again. It's highly caloric.

Just because I don't do it doesn't mean you shouldn't. Okay. Do as I say, not as doesn't mean you shouldn't. Okay. Do as I say, not as I do. All right. Where's my cucumber martini? My perfect summer cold remedy. Also, you know what else causes weight loss?

Fast weight loss? Docket clearing. Steve writes, My wife Jennifer and I met at a small liberal arts college in Conway, Arkansas. The school had no Greek system and no football team, making it a magnet for artsy misfits. Years after we graduated, the school hired a new president who was determined to start a football team. Many alums, including me and my wife, were horrified at the idea that our alma mater might be overrun by jocks. We vocally opposed the football plan, but to no avail.

The new football team will take the field this fall. Even though I oppose the football program, I'm willing to admit defeat and get behind the new team. I want to go to a few games and genuinely try to enjoy them. Jennifer, however, feels it would be hypocritical to support the team that we resisted. I ask Judge Hodgman to order Jennifer to give football a

chance by attending at least one game with me this fall. Obviously you are delusional, Steve. I will never rule. i will never order someone to go see football or any kind of sports ball not because i hate those things people who like them should like them people should like what they like but i will not order someone to go see football especially a football team that you opposed coming to your college, which I presume, based on the internet,

is Hendricks College of Conway, Arkansas. You tried to hide that information from me, but I found it. It's fielding the first football team since 1960. It had a football squad, then decided to focus on education for 53 years,

and now is bringing football back to the Hendricks collegiate experience. Wise move. And according to coach Buck Buchanan, he's going to bring 55 students into the school who otherwise would not have gone. And what better reason to have football than that? What's the team mascot, do you know? It's the Hendricks Warriors. He could have gone with like the

Hendrix Experience. Then you could have mixed the artsy and the football thing. And they could have had tie-dyed jerseys. Hendrix, I checked out his website. Hendrix College. Founded 1876. Looks like a great college. It honestly looks fun to me. You got some

happy people here who are studying, who are not giving each other concussions. Spent five consecutive years in the up-and-coming liberal arts college list on the U.S. News and World Report. Washington Monthly just called it one of the best liberal arts colleges in the country, and it did all this somehow without a

football program. But there are people in the world who believe that a college is not a college without getting a chance to watch young people smash each other in the head over and over again. You're here. And so there it is. I will not order your wife to go watch this football. If you've decided to make peace with the fact that this football program exists, you can go and see a football game.

In time, she may come to it, but I will not order her to see it. You can go and see a football game. In time, she may come to it, but I will not order her to see it. I will order both of you, however, to watch League of Denial, the frontline season premiere on Frontline PBS, October 8th, which deals with the lifelong impact, for lack of a better word, of repeated concussions and how they have ruined the lives of some former pro football players. I understand this is NFL, not college ball.

But this is turning out to be a pretty controversial documentary. ESPN was a co-production between ESPN and PBS. And now that it's getting ready to air, basically NFL said to ESPN, we don't want you to be involved in this anymore. NFL said to ESPN, we don't want you to be involved in this anymore. And ESPN has withdrawn its support from the documentary and has broken its partnership with PBS for future documentaries because this issue of brain damage and the danger of repeated concussions and the physical toll that football takes on its adult professional players is so frightening that NFL finds it to be a very uncomfortable topic. Now, I'm sure NFL has its own defense as to why football is great for young humans, but I'm going to get so many letters. I thought you were going to order them to watch Friday Night Lights.

Can't you order them to watch Friday Night Lights? I will watch Friday Night Lights. You won't watch it? No. Your wife loves it. I know. That is a great show, Judge John Hodgman. I'm sure it is. I order you to watch it.

And you know what? I'm not against football, right? Especially football drama. First of all, let me just clarify. I'm not against football before you finish sending those emails or whatever football people use to communicate with each other. Smoke signals and body paint. Body paints. Before you start body painting and hate mailing and TPing my house.

Football is a fun sport. And it's enjoyable for a lot of people and it brings a lot of people together and I love it. However, let's not fool ourselves. It is a high-impact, concussive contact sport that on a professional level, and I believe at a collegiate level, and I believe at a high school level, is only getting more competitive, more fast, and more concussive. That's just the way it is. That's what you're watching. That's what you're there to see.

Guys, typically only guys, hitting each other hard. You love the Patriots. I do. I don't hear you criticizing LARPers at Renaissance Fairs, at jousts. Foam swords, dude. Foam swords. And you know what?

Pro football dudes, right? They're being well compensated for whatever danger they are putting their bodies in. In the same way that any athlete is putting his or her body in harm's way, in the way of injury. Do you know what I mean? You know, college football gets into a gray area for me. But I guess unless you train those kids to hit each other hard

when they're 17 or 18 years old, how are you going to train professional athletes? Plus the years of doing it over and over and over again. Some people just stop at age 18 and that's that recovery time not continue on for the next eight years of continued pugilism sure so look there are arguments on either

side all I'm saying is dude go watch your football game uh uh Steve that is by dude I mean Steve wife Jennifer you are opposed to football you should be you, Jennifer, you are opposed to football. You should be. You should be allowed to be opposed to football.

Don't go see that football game. Please take a look at this PBS documentary. I think it raises some interesting questions. You can still enjoy football while also watching PBS. It's possible. And I will not watch Friday Night Lights, not because it's not a great show. I'm sure that it's an amazing show. All the actors on it are fantastic.

I love. Look, I saw Brian's song. I show. I'm sure that it's an amazing show. All the actors on it are fantastic. I love, look, I saw Brian's song. I cried. I can get into it. I can get into the narrative of sports any old day of the week. The thing is that I had to deal with my wife. If she read Game of Thrones, I would watch Friday Night Lights.

She hasn't owned up to her side of the bargain. She should also read Game of Thrones. Yeah, I agree. Jason writes, My wife claims that I take up too much of our shared bed. Yeah, I agree. Jason writes, My wife claims that I take up too much of our shared bed. I say I only take my fair share of the bed. I've calculated that I represent 61.3% of our total combined mass. Therefore, it is only fair that I have the right to occupy 61.3% of the sleeping real estate.

I ask the Honorable Judge to rule if it's fair for my wife to demand that I squeeze my sizable frame into a less than proportional piece of the bed, should we take and use what is fairly ours? Or do we have to make everything equal for everyone? Should our bedroom revert back to Soviet era Russia? Or should it be a beacon of freedom that sets an example to the world?

Whoa, alright Jason, look. You know what? There are two things that I'm tired of hearing about today. One is math. The other is the comparative bulk of married couples, because it's gross, and I can only just picture you guys naked, and it's gross. So all I'm going to say is,

every time this bed thing comes up, get a king bed and shut up about it. King beds for all married people. If you can afford it, and you have space in your house, you should have it. Because you can afford it and you have space in your house, you should have it. Because you can always get closer. But you have a queen bed or, God forbid, if Lulu forbid, a double, you're stuck.

You can't get further away in that thing. You have no real estate. What size bed do you have? As a dog or the kids crawl in there, there's no turning back. What size bed do you have? Queen. We make do. We should have got a king, though.

Right? Am I right? Oh, my God. Totally right. And I don't want to do any math. Have they had anything more like an emperor-sized bed? There's a California king. But that's just longer.

This is for tall people. Ugh. But a fatso like you, especially, Monty, you need a king-sized bed. Like a King George-sized bed. Yeah. King Henry. King beds for all married couples. So it is decreed.

Thanks to Mitchell Ahern for suggesting this week's case name. Thanks, Mitch. To suggest a name for future case, like us on Facebook. We regularly put out a call for submissions. I've been your guest bailiff, Monty Belmonte of WRSI 93.9 The River in Northampton. Thanks, Monty. Thanks for joining us for the Judge John Hodgman podcast. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is a production of MaximumFun.org.

Our special thanks to all of the folks who donate to support the show and all of our shows at MaximumFun.org slash donate. The show is produced by Julia Smith and me, Jesse Thorne, and edited by Mark McConville. You can check out his podcast, Super Ego, in iTunes or online at gosuperego.com. You can find John Hodgman online at areasofmyexpertise.com. If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO. If you have thoughts about the show,

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