Judge John Hodgman - Wet Suit

Episode Date: December 4, 2024

Jason and Miguel are surfing buddies in San Diego, California. Jason says that Miguel’s favorite surfing spot is BOGUS! It’s all party waves, full of jakes and groms. Jason doesn’t want to compete for sick waves. He just wants to ride! But Miguel says that the waves at his beach are the TASTIEST! Who's right? Who's wrong? And WHAT DOES ALL OF THIS MEAN?Check out this episode on YouTube for Judge Hodgman's Vincent D'onofrio story and for Bailiff Jesse Thorn's shocking story about his dad! We are also on TikTok @judgejohnhodgmanpod! Follow us on Instagram @judgejohnhodgman.Thanks to reddit user u/banjo_solo for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at reddit.com/r/maximumfun! Judge John Hodgman: Road Court is happening NOW! Get your tickets at maximumfun.org/events.

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bill F. Jesse Thorne. This week, wetsuit. Jason brings the case against his friend Miguel. Jason and Miguel are surfing buddies in San Diego, California. Jason says that Miguel's favorite surfing spot is bogus. It's all party waves full of jakes and groms. Jason doesn't want to compete with other surfers.

He just wants to ride. But Miguel says the waves at his beach are the sickest and tastiest. Who's right, who's wrong? Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. Papa oom Oomaomao, Papa Oomaomao, Papa Oomaomao, Papa Oomaomao. Yes.

Papa Oomaomao, Papa Oomaomao, Papa Oomaomao, Papa Oomaomao. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in. Jason, Miguel, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. Yes, I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling,

despite the fact that he doesn't do sick voices like me? I do. Judge Hodgman, you may proceed. Jason and Miguel, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours. Favors can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom? I see Jason, you are raising your hand eagerly. What was I quoting? That is surfing bird by the animals.

Whoa, you raised your hand fast for a guy who didn't even know the name of the band. I got the, I well. you want to guess the animals? I'm going to get surfing bird, surfing bird by the animals. I'm going to say, okay, I said the animals. I got to go with the animals. Do you want to add to the trashman? Or the trashman. That's two. That's two guesses. What about you, Miguel? I had no idea. I'd never, you have no idea? I had no idea. I guess that, you know...

hurts me a little bit in terms of... Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba Does that ring a bell, Miguel? It does. It does. Do you also want to guess Surfing Bird by the trash men or the animals? Go on. I beg you to. I beg you to. Trash man by the surf birds. The trashing bird by the surf men.

Yes. Mikael hasn't even heard about the bird. I love it. He's got it. He doesn't even know that the bird is the word. I can't believe I got over on that one. Oh, my goodness. When Jason's hand went straight up, I was like, well, he knows that it's Surfing Bird. And he probably knows that it's Surfing Bird by the Trashmen,

because that is, of course, probably the most famous and and most used on the soundtrack of Full Metal Jacket version of that song. But even if he had gotten it absolutely right, I would have had the chance to say all guesses are wrong. Even if Jason, with his hand up, knew that Surf and Bird, which includes the lyrics Papa Oomaomao, is actually a cover of an earlier, two earlier songs, one song called Surf and Bird, one song called Papa Oomaomao by the Rivingtons. The Rivingtons specifically lead vocalist Carl White, tenor Al Frazier, baritone Sonny Harris, and bass singer Turner Rocky Wilson Jr. originated that song in 1962. And if you had guessed, Jason, that it was the Rivingtons, I would

have zigged and zagged to say, no, I was not actually quoting that recording. I was actually recording the Rivingtons as they appeared on a 1990 episode of Night Court... Ha! ...called Raisin Bull. No chance. We had no chance. In which, and then the surviving Rivingtons, Sonny Harris, Rocky Turner, Wilson Jr., and Al Fraser, appeared as Mac's old bandmates, the Starlights, and performed Papa Oomaomao on that show. And I am credit to Night Court for so many things,

including reviving the memory of the original black artists who recorded that song. Good for them, the Rivingtons. In any case, now we are going to hear the song. It was a wipeout for both of you, by the way. ALL LAUGHING Here we go. I mean, that was a pretty close guess. Eric Burden and the Animals, the famous British rock group. ALL LAUGHING We got the era, right?

No tastier waves than... ...Isle of Man or whatever. One of the fun things about the trash men is that they're from Minneapolis. They are not. They are one of the great landlocked surfing rock bands. Although, you know, they could they could have gone up to Duluth to go surfing in Lake Superior.

Either of you ever do lake surfing? Never been that desperate. You can catch some sick waves in Duluth, or so I have read. But okay, let's get into it. Who seeks justice in this courtroom? That would be me, sir. Jason, your hand is up.

You and Miguel go surfing together. Let's get, let's do a little background here. How did you two meet and how did you two, you're friends, right? Until today, now you're enemies. How did you two meet and how did you two get into surfing? I first heard the sound of Miguel's voice on the phone. My boss in San Diego set me up with Miguel for an interview to join my team in Hawaii.

I was starting a new office for a staffing company that we both worked for and my boss gave me an opportunity to select my team. This is this is a tale as old as time Jesse Thorne. All the great surfing friendships started with an off-site interview to join your staff, to staff up a team. An HR team. Also, all great staffing companies are based in tasty surf locations. You cannot hire temps or search for executives or whatever unless there's a sweet field of tasty gnar or whatever. And we have a photo of the two of you as younger men. Oh no, I'm sorry. I have a photo of Tom Cruise from the movie Cocktail and another guy.

Well, no, this is supposedly the two of you. Obviously, these photos will be available on the Judge John Hodgkin Instagram account as well as our show page at MaximumFun.org. But both of you are wearing Hawaiian print shirts and drinking some luminous luminously colored drinks and smiling. This looks like fun in Honolulu. How old were you when this was taken, both of you? I was 34. Jason was a 34 year old man

that he reminded me very frequently of. I was 28. Okay. And now you're older. Much older. You rickety old man. But I mean, check out this, Jesse, can you see this photo of Tom Cruise over here?

This is a picture of two handsome young men who work at a staffing company. Yeah, both are very handsome. I thought you would agree that Jason on the left is pretty Cruise-ish, right? He looks like cruise on a cruise. Looks like cruise on a cruise, exactly. These two guys are having what appears

to be a tropical bro down. That, where do you live now? Oh, San Diego, right? Mm-hmm, that's right. Well, that is often rated the number one city to live in in the continental United States. For good reason. But do you miss Honolulu so much?

Yes, that was a real heady time. We were doing well. We were single fellas running around surfing a couple times a day. Surfed on patrol and surf again in the evening. You really want to go on the podcast saying that now we're married and our lives are over? Is that what you're trying to say? It's just different. Different kinds of adventures on a smaller scale.

Life has many chapters, doesn't it? But look at this chapter in your life where you're surfing. Here are some action shots of surfing. I cannot tell who it is who's up on this board in this photo. Can you tell me? That is actually me.

And Jason's taking a photo of me when I think you were injured or something like that. Yeah. I think I got back or something like that. That's Miguel. Kind of him to talk to enough surfers and very few have photos of themselves because nobody wants to take photos because they'd rather be surfing. They'd much rather be surfing. Yeah. So Jason was very kind and took photos of me even though he couldn't surf.

That's why you secretly poisoned Jason and gave him a diarrhea so he had to sit on the sand and take pictures of you. Where is this surfing locale? I'm pretty sure this is just north of Swamies. I'm not going to know the name of the surfing beach. Is this San Diego or North County, San Diego, San Diego, John, I hate to contradict you here, but I'm going to have to ask them to list some of the funny names that surfers may have for surfing spots where they live. Oh, we're going to be talking about that.

And let's talk about the lingo for a second. Cause uh, sure. I, uh, I had to go, I don know I did I did a little I added Grom's and and what was the other one Jake's Jake's you know you know what's a ho dad a ho dad is like a person who hangs around the beach and does not surf no a ho dad surfs but a ho dad is a little who hangs around the beach and does not surf? No, a hoedad surfs, but a hoedad is a little long-in-the-toothed surfing, I guess. That's you two. You two are hoedads. Yes, we're hoedads at this point.

But you're also directly contradicting wavetribe.com's surfing lingo glossary that I obviously read from cover to cover about 15 minutes ago. A grom supposedly, what would that, what a grom be? Do you know that one? That's a kid. Grom's a younger kid. That's a kid. A young and inexperienced surfer. Usually under like 15. Oh, wow.

15, 16 and younger is like a grom, like 15 or 16 year old would be the oldest groms I would say. And then the seven year olds are gromlets. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's all grumb. Yeah. And a Jake, according to this website is a surfer who gets in the way of more experienced servers. Interesting. I hadn't heard that term, but that, that resonates with me. Jason, what is dropping in?

Okay. So dropping in is, uh, is when you take off on a wave. So you paddle on your stomach, right? Right. dropping in. Okay, so dropping in is when you take off on a wave. So you paddle on your stomach, right? And then when the wave energy picks you up, you jump up to your feet very quickly and then you slide down the face of the wave and that's called dropping in.

Now if you drop in on someone, that's an infraction. And the guilt- If you drop in on someone, they might break their neck. They might. They might get hurt. You might stab them with your board. What is a lineup? You wanna take that one again?

Sure, a lineup is where a group of surfers are trying to catch waves. So if you go to any surf spot and you'll see like basically a pod of surfers, that's typically the lineup. What is a hang 10? That's when you get both of your toes or both of your feet. Both of your toes.

Both of your, saw them unfortunately. That's what happened when McGowan had someone drop in on him. He lost eight toes. When you get all 10 toes. Over the front of the board, it's on a long board. On a long board. Either of you guys ever hang 11?

Yes. Ever hang 11? No, I can't say I've ever managed to quite hang 10. Do you hang 10? I don't know if I've ever seen you. I can get a cheater five, which is kind of like when you're leaning back and getting five fingers over the front, or five toes.

Each digit's right. Pail of Jesse Thorns. Some guys, they hang 11. Yeah. Uh-huh. That's all I'm going to say about that. They hang 11. Some guys hang 11.

Yeah. By the way, I feel like Miguel's understanding of his own body is sort of like a Vincent D'Onofrio and Men in Black situation. It's possible that Miguel is an alien like a Vincent D'Onofrio and men in black situation. It's possible that Miguel is an alien in a man suit. That would explain a lot. Have you seen my cat? Means the world to me. Vincent D'Onofrio, a lot of things to say

about him, but I'm going to move on. Uh, you've probably heard it before, but if you want to hear my Vincent and Afrio story, uh, go over to the, uh, the YouTube page for this episode. Over there at at judge John Hodgman pod on YouTube and I'll be there as a video extra. But meanwhile, let's get down to the case. Uh, Jason, you bring this dispute against Miguel. It is about where you go surfing. What is the nature of the dispute. Now that you are a couple of ho dads living in San Diego, your youth in Honolulu has been spent, you've wiped out in life and washed ashore in adulthood in San Diego.

What are you fighting about, Jason? Jason Bahlman Well, we used to surf a couple of times a day potentially. We would surf maybe, typically three to four days a week. How did you ever make any time for staffing? Well, you do Donpatrol, you get before the sun comes out. Donpatrol you say. That's another term. First thing, right.

And Miguel isn't typically all that keen to get out for Donpatrol. These days for sure, definitely not Donpatrol. Used to be a little more up for it, but... That's how we would surf three times in a day. Yeah. Finish work and you... 430 after work, or about three times was on a weekend, right?

Yeah. You got it 430, maybe a lunchtime. So you're saying in Honolulu, you would get up at dawn, go surfing, then go to work, do a little staffing. Yeah. Till 4 30. Maybe eat a spam musubi. There you go.

Yeah. Yeah. How are you talking? And then, uh, and then you would go surfing again. Hmm. Sometimes two, three hours in a session. Wow. Every day over day.

And, and paddle back in the, in the, uh, in the Lee of the Hilton Hawaiian village with the rainbow mosaic on it and fireworks going off over your head of a Friday evening. Diamondhead in the background. Reflected in the water. Diamondhead. It was quite a... And the Dawn Patrol, by the way, the entire sky is pink and the water is like glass, so that pink sky is reflected in the water. like glass. So that pink sky is reflected in the, in the

water and you're swimming through candy, candy land. Yes. Oh, I went to every, I'm sorry. Yeah. Time moves in one direction. That's the past dude. It's all over for you. Now Dawn patrol is down patrol. Cause you're in your cozy bed. Yeah, that's right. There we go. Comfort or is it is Don Patrol Dad Patrol for either of you? Oh, dads, do you have kids? Oh, yeah. Both of you. Yeah, that's why for me.

Right. It's just not feasible. So what are you in your third? Are you both in your 30s now? I'm a 50 year old man. He's a 50. What? I'm 43. Oh, you seem to have gotten younger. No, no, that makes sense because it's 2834. Yeah, I can.

I'm learning to do subtraction. That's my, my, uh, new year's resolution for next year. Learned to do subtraction. Okay. So now you're grownups. You're, you both live in San Diego. You don't surf that often. And that's why we're here, right, Jason? What's the issue? That's right. So we now surf maybe once a month and of late, and I have a couple of theories as to

why this has become the case. Miguel is very good at reading the tides and the waves and the charts and so on to select surf spots. He likes to geek out of it. He's into sports. So Jesse, he's very much into stats. And so he gets into that. So he's really good at finding the spots. And we all just, my other buddy Joe and I, we acquiesce to him typically to pick the spot. But lately, I'd say three and four, maybe four and five times that we go.

And this is like now once a month or twice a month, we're surfing Black's Beach. Oh And and have you seen they have Black's Beach? Expert level right experts. It can be double black diamond that spot It can be Miguel tell me about Black's Beach I'm pretending like I know all about it, but I know nothing. Oh Black's Beach is probably the one of the most beautiful beaches in all of San Diego. One of the most consistent surf breaks in all of San Diego.

And you know, oftentimes you can kind of just go and see beautiful nature, beautiful views. It, I mean, I honestly would say it's an equivalent to the North Shore of Hawaii in some ways, you know? And so that's one major reason, or a few major reasons why I really like it. And Jason made reference to double black diamond, which I presume is some expert rating. Yeah, I mean, for snowboarders and ski boarders, skiers, they...

Also known as double ski boarders, skinny ski boards. That's what they call skis. They will rate the technicality or the difficulty of the mountain on that scale. But I wouldn't say blacks is a double black diamond every single time you go. You can go and it's a, to use the same metaphor, a green or a blue.

Probably more times it's a green, I would say than anything else. What makes it, if it's, I mean, Jason, what makes it double black diamond or whatever? Like the intensity of the waves, the height of the waves, the rapidity of the waves? It's the level of surfing that's there. It's well known as a good surf spot

and it's well known as being very consistent. So you'll get some of the best surfers in San Diego converge there, especially if the forecast is good. So if this is what makes it good, do you understand what I'm asking? What makes it, what makes it good for surfing waves, right? Waves. Yes. You're an expert. So you could probably address the height of the waves, the texture of the water. So like if it's very, you know, if it's very- I think the texture is usually wet, correct? One of them is.

Juicy. It can also be, it can be described as oily. It can be described as soupy. What are you surfing in Dasani water? John, you have to understand. It takes a little extra explanation for you to understand this, but me and Miguel are both sports guys.

So we know a lot about numbers and we can understand about oily water. Yeah. LAUGHS So yeah, the conditions are what make it good. And good conditions typically are wave height, wave texture. So like if it's clean or rocky or, you know, very, you know, when you're looking out of the ocean, you see like white caps, bad conditions.

And so, but given that, those scenarios, that's where wax is usually one of the best because it's also wind protected. So if there's a lot of onshore, offshore wind, that's another variable to what makes waves good and bad. And obviously this is a well-known spot, Jason, you point out that lots and lots of good surfers go there because of these conditions and that's your problem with it, correct? That's one of the problems I have. So when the conditions are great, I can't compete.

I don't surf enough to compete with the level of surfing that's going on there. So when it's good, I tend to have to back off of these waves so I don't drop in on somebody. Somebody is always a little deeper than me and I'm always having to back off and it's big. So it's a little scary. There's a big underwater canyon there. So the water goes from very deep to very shallow. So even smaller waves can pack a real punch there. So when the waves are good, longer period, there's longer space between the waves.

It has this energy that builds up and it can really suck you and hold you down all the way to the bottom and it can be a little unpleasant. And then that's all right. If you're catching these great waves, it's worth it. But when it's good, there's other great surfers out there. I'm not in shape to compete with them. So it winds up being a lot of paddling and I never catch any waves. What is competing with other surfers entail? Why don't you give them all diarrhea the way Miguel did you? You're on to something. the beach and literally beach them. Hmm. Hmm

That's that's a tactic I hadn't considered short of poisoning them, which I urge you not to do What is competing with other more experienced and presumably younger surfers mean you have to paddle faster out? Further to get the wave first or what? Yeah, do you I'm pretty much exactly that know, you just have to be in the right position. Hey, I got it right. Mikkel, who gets to pick who's surfing the wave? Like, what are the rules? What's the hierarchy? Yeah, what's the etiquette? Yeah, you could probably have an entire podcast on that. But traditionally,

it's who's ever closest to the peak when the wave breaks. So when the wave breaks, it's going to break in one direction or the other. So if it's breaking to the right, whosoever furthest to the left of that peak gets the priority for that wave or has essentially the right to that wave. So if you are essentially to the right of that person who is going on the right as you are further to the left, you would be cutting them off at that point. So among that pod, it can be a little competitive because of a good wave comes.

A lot of people can recognize that a good wave is coming and six people paddle to the wave. And yeah, it turns into a little bit of a competition of who can be claimed to be closest to the point of where the wave is breaking as well as pop up first, because if you pop up first, you might be able to kind of make a claim that you were you were in the right position. Got it.

So even if you're not closest to the peak, if you pop up first, then you might claim that territory. You might be able to but you know, you might have someone that will say no, I was closer to the peak. And you know, that's how disputes start in the lineup typically. I'll tell you this. I used to be the news director of KZSCFM in Santa Cruz, California, which is a bit of a surf town.

And I had a guy in my news class who was quite a surfer. And there was an assignment in this class that you had to make one news story about something going on in Santa Cruz. And his news story was about surfing. There's no surprise. He had no other interests. And I learned that the consequences of breaking surf etiquette could be far beyond my wildest imaginings. They like, they involved things that, that would violate the

Geneva conventions. So what are, what are the consequences? What are we talking about? Yeah. Well, there's a pretty sure it's Palace Verde's. There's a pretty significant case and, you know, investigation going on about these local surfers who kind of have claimed the wave as their territory. And as a result, yeah, people go to that wave and if they don't know them, they don't like them,

they'll slash their tires, they'll throw rocks at them, they will make it very, very unpleasant. And yeah, and so it can be, it can get to the point of violence, unfortunately, if you drop in on somebody who doesn't like you and wants to have a reason to fight you essentially. Jesse Thorne, do we need to go out to Black's Beach and become surf court? Yeah, I think he could use you. I mean, I heard stories about people being held underwater,

people being beat up. You also sent in Jason a video from Black Speech, which is pretty dramatic. Describe this video. There is a potential energy bomb. When you walk down this path and then you come out onto Black Speech, you look up, there's about a 300-foot cliff of sandstone and there's water leaking from it and This bomb hangs over it adds to the drama. It's kind of exciting. But then when you see this video This is from just a couple years ago Before you tell me more about the video Jason I think Jennifer Marmer our wonderful producer is about to share it with us for those of you who are watching on YouTube

You can see it there and if not go to our show page What we just saw is a genuinely terrifying, absolutely classic avalanche. Avalanche. You're not a snow avalanche. No, no. Side of a mountain avalanche, just rocks and nightmare rolling down and making it sound like a thousand steer on the move. Why weren't either of you surfing that bluff collapse? Those looked like a pretty tasty wave.

Not many people are going to drop in on that one, that's for sure. When was this, Jason, that this collapse happened? Two years ago in January. So you're saying that Blacks Beach this could, you could be on the beach at any moment. Let's say you're you haven't gone into the water. Let's say you have beach diarrhea and you're sitting on the beach. You're saying you could just be covered in an avalanche at any moment. That's part of the reason why you don't want to surf this spot.

Oh, Judge John Hodgman. This is not theoretical. There's now this, this is this has not happened at Blacks Beach yet, but at a beach that I frequent, another beach in North County, there was a bluff collapse and it ended in a tragedy. I don't want to bring our podcast down, but there are consequences associated with these beach collapses. Folks who watched the video or even heard the audio could hear that it was pretty violent and dangerous-seeming. But this is why you don't want to go to Black's Beach?

I wouldn't say it. It just adds to the drama and the sphincter tightening that happens when you and the sort of sphincter tightening that happens when you enter this beach and you see this giant cliff over your head and then knowing that the waves can be kind of punishing, it's all worth it if you're gonna go out and catch waves. But if I'm gonna surf for an hour and a half, and every wave that I fight for, I'm gonna get that great feeling of that glide.

Let's just start to glide in and then somebody here at who, and I got to back out and then I back and then I wait again. And the waves, many times as they roll in, they lift and lift and lift and lift. And this is a phenomenon of black speech. I don't say it's particular, but it happens a lot of blacks where it lifts and lifts and lifts and it doesn't break and doesn't reach steeper and steeper and steeper and bigger and bigger. And then it finally breaks and then you jump in and it gives the competition plenty of time to line up and get position on you. So I just find I'm backing off of waves more than I'm catching them. There's

other spots where we would be some of the better surfers and I just catch more waves. So that's the nature of the dispute here. Okay. So the dispute is Miguel, you want to surf Black's beach almost exclusively and Jason, you'd like to go to some chumpier beaches where you're the Kings, where you're the middle-aged Kings. Yes. All right. I understand. Now you got it. My notes here say, Jason, that you just want to go to raging waters. Is that correct? You want to, you want to surf the boat ride at Legoland, California? Is that... Want to surf past that Sydney harbor made of Legos?

That's not too far from the truth, for some of the spots have been surfed. You know, I know of a lazy river inside a former Zeppelin hangar in Germany that you could visit. Let me ask this specific question. Miguel, Jason, is there anything else about Black's speech that I should know? It does have an unusual feature. It is a nude beach. Here we go. It's a well-known nude beach?

Well-known, yes. Perfect for hanging a leaven. I didn't say it. Do you surf in the nude either of you? I do not. However, when I first started surfing there, I did witness a young man surfing in the nude on a soft top surfboard. And those boards are kind of rough.

And when you lie on your tummy and you jump up, I don't imagine all the skin is coming with you. I could, it looks very uncomfortable. I can't imagine people like what they like. Jason, my first, I had the immediate thought that surfing in the nude sounds perfect for the experience of surfing because of the like communing with the wave element seemed like it would be great in the nude. Uh, but I forgot about the fact that you have to lie

on a surfboard that's covered in friction tape basically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you, what do you both wear when you go surfing? Do you wear rash guards? Do you wear wetsuits, dry suits, San Diego chicken suits? Dude, they're wearing their baggies.

Wetsuit typically. Yeah. Yeah. In the summer, board shorts and like a wetsuit jacket or wetsuit top, if you will. Right. A couple months a year, you can trunk it. Yeah. A couple months a year, you can trunk it, Jesse. That's what I always say, dude.

A couple months a year, you can trunk it. Trunk it. Bro, let's trunk it. But Jason, the fact that this is a nude beach, does this affect this case? These are distractions, Your Honor. You know, the collapsing of the beach, the nude beaches, those all actually occurred miles down from where we typically surf. Now, the collapsing could happen at our location very easily. I recognize as a legitimate potential threat, you know, but super outlier.

That video is rare for a reason because it doesn't happen very often. And as well, the nude beach is further down or further up north from where we surf typically. So therefore, it's very, very rare that you would encounter surfers who are nude. Personally, I've probably only encountered half a dozen surfers in the... Nude? personally, I've probably only encountered half a dozen surfers in the nude, maybe yes nude, right, in the decade plus that I've been surfing upon. Jason is being a very good boy and raising his hand because he would like to object. Go ahead, Jason. The incidents of nudity are rare but they are unforgettable when they happen. Yeah, it sounds like all of this really adds to what you described as the drama of

black speech, that there are these, uh, safety issues, these colorful characters, these intense surfer dudes. Are you not in it for the messy drama? I've experienced the messy drama for going on eight years now, six, seven, eight years. Yeah. Since I started surfing in this area and I, and I will surf there on occasion. I will enjoy the messy drama on occasion.

I would acquiesce to that. But while we're only surfing once a month, I don't want it to be my spot. You don't want it to be full point break. I'm worried that you guys are going to have to drop kick a dog into one of your enemies. Is San Diego surf scene messier than Hawaii or is it kind of the same vibe? I think they're pretty close. You know when you're going to surf a certain, when you're going to serve a certain spot, if it's going to, you're going to encounter localism. So, you know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it's, you know, one is really much worse than the other.

They both have localism, you know, and if you want to avoid it, it's not very difficult. And localism is, is this sort of chauvinistic practice of kicking out non locals, however that's defined or being mean to them and certain beaches are more localized than others. Is that no matter where you are? Okay, I got you. Yeah. Yeah. Was that three months ago that I was physically threatened? Were you physically threatened?

Yeah. You didn't even know about Jason being physically threatened? I was in the water and, you know, there are ways to avoid this localism. So yes, I was in the water that day. Tell me about the time you got bullied, Jason. And physically threatened even. So we went to another spot, paddled out along the jetty. A jetty is a pile of rocks basically.

And then we paddle into the- Wow, you think Judge John Audren doesn't know what a jetty is? Make a note, not gonna make a note of that. Yeah, you said I was a sports guy, I'm an art guy. I'm more familiar with Spiral Jetty, the legendary first work. All right, more familiar with spiral jetty. Yeah. Legendary. All right. I know what a jetty is. Okay. So you're over there by the jetty.

All right. For the landlock listeners, there's a jetty, we're paddling on these rocks and you go into the lineup. So we're to the, to the, to Miguel's point, we're to the left and it's a, it's a left breaking wave. So we paddle because you have to paddle through the lineup. We're paddling into position to be first to catch the wave. These middle-aged Tufts. Oh boy. If you want to call them bad kids, Tufts, bullies, bad boys. I do. I want to call them those. Took exception to our being in their vicinity and I stood up for myself and Miguel paddled away. Wow. Bad boy retreats. Good boy takes a stand.

And they threatened you, Jason? What did they say to you? Well, I won them over. I'm going to doink you in the eyes. I feel like over a few moments I won them over because I went to the end of the line basically. Then a wave very quickly came. They all took the first wave, and then they took the second wave,

and a third wave came, and by then they were all gone, and I had position all by myself on a beautiful wave, and I caught a very nice wave in, and I said, see, I'm abiding by the rules, I know what I'm doing, and then I sat, didn't have position again, and I waited 23 minutes. Then another young tough, young older gentleman, tough, came and took exception again to the fact that I was there and I'd been waiting

my turn. I had stood up for myself again to another and this guy raised your hand and you said, excuse me, sir. Pardon me. Pardon me. Let me adjust my glasses and explain to you what the rule of the lineup is. You said, tell me, are you fluent in SQL because we're seeking for a position that... LAUGHS I did, you know, I... The way I defend them, I humanize myself, I let them know I'm a dad, I'm just trying to surf on a weekend. I have a job here, I was an elementary school teacher

at the time, and I'm trying to be somebody for the community. Uh, and that didn't... It just it didn't win them over this time didn't win them over exactly but it did diffuse the situation okay so and so there were no fisticuffs have you ever how how would you have fisticuffs in the water anyway that seems like a really awkward they call you to the beach it say let's go to the beach oh they say let's go to the beach. That's the parking lot of surfing. Meet you around, meet you around behind the library at three o'clock. Yeah, meet you at the dumpster. When surf guys get in fights do they wear their white suits? Yes, it looks very, if you look at this online it looks very silly. This sounds miserable honestly. This is rare Judge Hodgman. This is rare. If it happened all the time, I wouldn't brought it up, Jason.

So what's the point? If it's very rare, what's the point? Where do you want to surf? What, what, what parrot, what paradise, non-aggro place do you want to serve? There's a, there are a litany of other places we could serve in Miguel as an expert on finding them. So if he were to present say black speech and another option, given his, his, you know, broad expertise in the area. He could choose

Cardiff Reef, he could choose Swamies, he could choose the Boneyard just north of Swamies, D Street, 15th Street, there's a- Keep going, keep going. Grandview, avocados, tourmaline, there's old man's, there's macadamia nut, peanut, hazelnut. Why don't you want to go to any of those other places? Why Miguel, why is going to black speech more important to you than your friendship with Jason? I want to serve the best available waves on that day. Right.

So if you look at the metrics of what makes a good day, you can look at Black's Beach and they will typically be better than any of those other waves that Jason identified. And so when you talk about surfing in, you know, you know, a lake or something like that, that's essentially what he's surfing in in those days. And if you, you know, want to pull up some of that evidence that I shared with a great producer, yeah, now I'm gonna say right now that Miguel sent in some screenshots of some looks

like surf reports with various charts and graphs of surfing conditions. And when you sent in the this homework for me to do, I crumpled up my computer and threw it away. Miguel, analytics are ruining the surfing game. That's right. What is it you're trying to show me in these surf reports? Ultimately, if you compare what Jason claimed to be surfing that day and the conditions at Blacks, that same day with surfing, you can see that the waves are bigger at blacks. The wind is lower or there is less wind. And those are two very key metrics for judging waves and expectations about waves.

So bigger waves, less wind, probably going to be more fun than small waves, lots of winds. So on Friday, August the 9th of this year, you're comparing side by side, the wave height and wind at Blacks Beach versus Del Mar. Del Mar is a place where you would like to go surfing, Jason. I surf there frequently. Why is Del Mar your spot? Well, it's a nice way.

I mean, when I look at these pathetic waves, I really have to wonder. Thank you, thank you. I mean, when I, when I look at these pathetic waves, I really have to wonder. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, Black's Beach is three to four feet. Del Mar, two to three feet. That's a foot less. Yeah.

Why not just buy a bucket at the hardware store and flap your hand around in it? Yeah, exactly. Well, it's, it's a place where I know I can go and catch some waves. I went there the other day before work. I served for 40 minutes I caught three nice little waves and they were fun and they were long and I got bottom to top I went I went right on one. I went left on one. It was 40 minutes. Well spent I felt like I had some fun and I was successful last time I surfed with Miguel, we surf 90 minutes at blacks and we both

caught close, I caught three closeouts. He caught two closeouts and that's when it just dumps on the beach and just go straight. That's no fun. A closeout is no fun. So that's no fun. I don't know. You ever been to Marshall's?

What would be your ideal surf session, Jason? What you describe? Delmar, tell me. Gosh, you know, one of the fun parts of surfing for me is, and it's a ritual, is you go and you stand on the shore together with your cup of coffee and you look out on the waves and you decide, are we going to surf here? Together with your cup of coffee or your friend? Together with your cup of coffee and together with your friend, I think it's four

of us with four. So we all look out on the waves and we decided we're going to surf here. We're going to look for an open spot. Now you can get caught up in and looking until the time runs out. You can't serve anymore. I like that part of the ritual. We show up, we stand there in our puffy coats, sip our coffee, look at it, decide, suit up together and go out. If you're at Blacks, you walk down about a quarter mile before you even see the waves. So you're committed, you're surfing there regardless of what the waves look like. So I would surf at a place like Cardiff Reef, a place like...

Santaleo Nut, Pip nut, Cartofreet nut. Yeah, there's spots we haven't even surfed, like Solana Beach, there's some spots. You're saying your favorite part of surfing is... You can explore a little more. ...before you even go in? Yeah, that's part of it. It's the chat, it's the catch-up, it's the hangout,

uh, and then the suit up and then the paddle out and the hang. Yeah. Well, I would contend you actually get that at Blacks even more because you have a longer walk. You can actually, we can get into a conversation. We can catch up with each other because in the water, it is very difficult. You want to be focused on catching waves

during the water. So wherever we surf, presumably we would not be engaged in super amount of conversation, but that time of, if the distance from our cars to the waves is too close, well then that reduces our amount of time to show. So blacks, you probably have a good 15, 20 minute walk to get to the beach. What's a beautiful walk down. That's not what Jason wants. Jason wants to stand on the beach together with his coffee and his friend.

Doesn't want a 20 minute walk. Why are you telling Jason what makes him happy? Jason knows what makes him happy. Just tell me what's wrong with Jason's dream. Of surfing other spots than Blacks? Yeah, what's wrong with Jason's dream? The waves are not as good. And I would ask Jason, you know,

when he thinks about the best waves that he's caught in San Diego, have they been when you've gone on your own or have they been gone when we go? And I make the decision. Where is the most epic wave you have caught? Top three epic waves in San Diego? Okay. Yeah.

So, Sunset Cliffs. So, I got to admit Sunset Cliffs. I've caught incredibly epic waves at Sunset Cliffs. I remember the whole thing to this day. Miguel, Sunset Cliffs, what's wrong with that beach? Is that a diarrhea beach? Is that bad? Bad beach?

No, nothing is wrong with Sunset Cliffs, but the conditions for Sunset Cliffs are much more rare than they are for good conditions like the blacks. So if you were to compare the two, yeah, the best waves probably are at Sunset Cliffs in comparison to blacks, but the conditions for good and epic waves, if you will, are going to be more frequent at blacks than they will at sites like Cliffs in comparison to Blacks, but the conditions for good and epic waves, if you will, are going to be more frequent at Blacks than they will at St. Louis. Yeah, we know that you love Blacks Beach so much. He doesn't love Blacks Beach. This guy loves his model. This guy loves looking at his sign waves and his... I didn't even notice these things are like perfect examples of swell and like conditions.

That's true. We're looking at the neon art in the background of the studio there in San Diego. It's beautiful. All right. Number two epic wave. We heard number three epic wave. Number two epic wave, Jason. I gotta admit that one of them is at Blacks.

There we go. I gotta admit one of them is at Blacks. Another was let's say Grandview. I used to surf there a lot and I got I got really, really lucky there. I don't think you might have been there that day. Yeah. Jason, you you've raised your right hand a few times to indicate that you wanted to speak. Would you do me a favor and raise both of your hands above your head? And you to Miguel,

I do not see that you are handcuffed together. Why don't you just go, you may put your hands down. Why don't you just go surf where you want to surf? Well, I like my, I like surfing with my buddy. Yeah. I mean, I do surf by myself, but when I surf with Miguel, I want to surf a spot where I'm not just going to get, you know, called off of waves the entire time I'm there. How you mentioned that you are, you know, in your young middle age, let's say, Miguel, you're in your baby middle age.

How much longer do you feel your bodies can surf together? I see guys out there in their seventies that rip on short works. All right. I hope to, yeah, until I die. It's a matter of frequency and it can't be too frequent You get a little older if you start feeling some aches and pains You gotta back off for a few weeks and that's how you get longevity and surfing So you still have a lot of surfing and friendship ahead of the both of you got it. Okay

It says here Jason that your ideal ruling indeed is to alternate to to go to Black's Beach one time, and then another one of your bunny trail beaches another time. Why is that not acceptable? That seems like a great compromise, Miguel. Why is that not okay? I think because you are ignoring the possibility of a great session at Black's,

if the conditions are better. You love Black's Beach more than you love your friend. Judge Hodgman, why don't you want to listen to the model? Listen to the model! That's right, listen to the stats, listen to the data. You love your stats, you love your data, you love your charts and graphs, and you love Blacks Beach more than you love your friend. Is that right?

No, that's not true. Turn to your friend right now and say, I love that beach more than you. I would not say that. I would not say that. I don't love that beach more than you. I would not say that. I would not say that. I don't love that beach. You don't have to say it. Your actions show it. I think I know what's better for him than.

Oh, here we go. Yeah. Like a child who, you know, wants to touch the stove or wants to, you know, do something that is not safe for them or good for them. He's your senior Miguel and you're treating him like a gromlet. What do you think he is? Some kind of gromlet? Yeah, you think he is some kind of gromlet? Yeah, you think he's some kind of grommie?

He is sometimes he is, unfortunately. And I think I've shared this in our initial discussions. You know, one of the reasons around why I choose blacks is to regulate Jason, because Jason has at times done the cardinal sin of dropping it on me personally and prevented me from being able to experience what he's describing is that epic or best one-sort-point win. When did Jason drop in on you? Oh, my goodness.

So many times Jason has dropped in on me. And he just laughs when he does it, right? He just laughs at me. He doesn't say sorry or anything like that. And going back to the in the, going back to like how we will analyze waves, how we will look at waves, how we will position ourselves to catch waves. Jason will sit right to the left of me or right of me, whichever is the more priority position so that he can catch the waves that I

personally kind of identified it like, hey, this is the spot because when it comes to being in the water, the lineups, especially at blacks, which makes it so great, there can be multiple lineups in a certain break. So at Blacks, you have probably three or four lineups within a certain area. For those of you who aren't watching the YouTube and are just listening, Miguel has brought out a whiteboard and is putting up a bunch of magnets and index cards and connecting them with yarn at this point. Jason, are you secretly the bad boy of surfing? I thought you were the good boy of surfing But now it turns out you're the bad boy. You're sniping other people's waves and you're dropping in on your friend

You know We serve with a lot of people who have who learned when they were gromlets when they were seven eight years old, right? And they've been surfing their whole lives. I started surfing at 34 years old So I had to wow up with kids, seven years old, say it, I go uncle and then have a position and go on me. And I, so I, I learned over time, but I will, I will admit in the first few years. What did you learn exactly how to steal away from a seven year old? No, I learned to back off.

No, dominant, grumblets dominated me for years. Gromlitz. No, Gromlitz dominated me for years in the wild. And so I will admit when I was early surfing, I leaned on Miguel heavily to figure out where to be to catch waves because he started well ahead of me. Now I think he's hanging on to a very old narrative. I haven't dropped in on Miguel like that in many years. It's been many years since I've dropped in on Miguel like that. Why do you think he's bringing it up now?

I think he's just trying to win an argument. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I'll be back in a moment with my verdict. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Miguel, how are you feeling about your chances in this case right now? Have you beaten some sense into your best friend? I feel okay, you know, but judge is judge and I will abide by his ruling. But I think at the end of the day that, you know, my understanding of where the best places

surf on any given Saturday, I value that time just as much as Jason. Jason makes it sound like I don't care about catching waves and I very much care about catching waves. I just kind of want to catch very good waves. And so that's why I, you know, maybe persuade with a lot of influence and using that data to say, hey, let's go to blacks. Because oftentimes all of those metrics lead to blacks.

Jason, how are you feeling? I'm feeling pretty good. I think I made a pretty good case. And what I'm asking for is reasonable. I don't think it's a big ask to go to a different spot. And if Miguel is so good at his charts, I'd feel like rather than picking the obvious choice that everybody is aware of,

he would use his charts and graphs to find a rarefied spot where we show up and nobody's there. Have you guys ever heard, John, I'm including you in this, have you guys ever heard the story of the time my dad had an incident on the beach in Hawaii? No. Okay, well, this is only for, this is a video exclusive. This is a video shorts exclusive.

So go to the YouTube if you're listening to the audio. If you're listening to the audio, we'll be back in just a moment with Judge John Hodgman's verdict. Judge John Hodgman, we're taking a quick break from the case and we have some amazing holiday stuff in the Max Fund store at maxfundstore.com, including among other things,

the triumphant return of our Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage t-shirts, which is incredible, John, because as I understand it, they don't even have Christmas in Canada. Strange, strange, but true. Yes, tis the season for generosity. And indeed, the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage t-shirt, still one of the greatest fan favorites of all time. And it's back for a limited time, along with the Canadian House of Pizza and Garbage Beverage Cousi, a brand new product over there in the Max Fund Store in standard can size and Slim Can, which I think is what they have in Canada. And Jesse Thorne, we have some weird dad merch,

but also some new merch, right, in the Weird department? Weird Mom merch. You can get our Weird Mom or Weird Dad logo designed by the legendary Erin Draplin now on unisex tees, on ladies tees, and on bumper stickers, all at MaxFunStore.com. Stick your bumps with a Weird dad or weird mom sticker. By the way, you mentioned Erin Draplin and we both mentioned Canada. Erin's from Portland, Oregon. Are we doing a show in Portland next year?

We absolutely are. Are we doing a show in Canada, in Vancouver for the first time in a number of years? Yes, we are. And if your favorite Judge John Hodgson listener is in either of those places and enjoys experiences, we have a great idea. Give them a ticket to see us live on tour in Portland, Oregon, Vancouver, British Columbia, or Seattle, Washington. Unfortunately, Los Angeles is sold out, but there are still tickets available at San Francisco

SketchFest in San Francisco as well. You can get these tickets at maximumfund.org slash events right now for you or someone you love, maximumfund.org slash events. And I want to remind you that if you're looking for a really special gift this holiday season, you can check out my antique and vintage store, the Put This On Shop at putthisonshop.com. Not only do we have our ordinary array of antique home goods

and jewelry for men and women and beautiful handmade pocket squares and so on and so forth, vintage clothing, all kinds of beautiful things. We also have some new products handmade in the shop right now. We have some incredible, what we're calling our Japanese selvedge to selvedge scarves, which handmade in the shop right now. We have some incredible, what we're calling our Japanese selvedge to selvedge scarves, which are made from narrow gauge woven

vintage Japanese textiles. There's a few different ones with hand finished ends that are just absolutely breathtakingly beautiful. And our put this on ball caps are back. We have a few different designs, including the Dad caps, which have been very popular in a few new color ways. This is literally a cap that says D-A-D on it, Dad. It's really hot.

Yeah, it is. And we have our New York and California hats, which feature the outlines of those great states. Those might be my favorites we've ever made. And our classic Put this on ball cap, which has been gone for many years, but is a simple white star on a blue background for when you want to wear a ball cap

that goes with everything. Those are all handmade in the United States by a human being with soft leather sweat bands and real wool flannel and leather size adjusters. Just really beautiful pieces that you'll have for many, many years. And indeed, one of the reasons that I brought them back is because my friend Brian Fernandez was telling me

that he wore his hat every day for like eight years and it was finally starting to tatter. He said, can you please make them again so that I can buy one? So I said, yes, you can find all that stuff online at putthisonshop.com. And if you use the code justice, uh, all the small stuff in the store ships for free in the United States. I love put this on shop.com. It's a great place to get gifts, especially for the people that, uh, you

think have everything, but you didn't realize they needed a 1940s white floral metal drink tray or a poodle print ray on pocket square. Unfortunately, you can't get 1989 Tops Batman second series trading cards there, right, Jesse? Those are not available at putthisonshop.com. I believe we do have those as well as rad dudes trading cards. Well, then there you go.

Put this on shop.com, maxfunstore.com, maxminfun.org slash events. Click on all of those links when you're thinking about being generous this holiday and buying gifts. And thank you. Let's get back to the case. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman reenters the courtroom having heard my story about my dad on the beach in Hawaii and the 12 huge men judging whether he should live or die and told his story about Vincent D'Onofrio and the lemonade stand and presents his verdict.

Given my story away there. All right. Not much more to it than that. In any case, you may be seated, Miguel and Jason. First of all, thank you very much for this education on surfing. I've learned a lot. And two things I've learned is I definitely wanted to go to Hawaii. I've always wanted to go and I've never gone and I really need to go there. And one thing about my visit to Hawaii is I will not go surfing. I had no idea how rough and tumble this was.

I thought surfing was chilled out. I thought it was this peaceful, you know, I don't love sports, but I have an affection for those sports that are part of obsessive personal perfection, the solo sports where you are lifting a weight or, or, or walking a distance or, uh, or biking or an, I thought surfing was this meditative calm thing. I didn't know that you were going to be doing to left and right and have your eyes gouged out and people hold you under the water and seven year old gromlets dancing on your head

and giving you beach diarrhea and then you get buried underneath a bluff collapse. It's too much, too competitive. I didn't realize how competitive surfing was and I'm never going to do it. I'm sorry. I mean, I admire both of you, not only for doing it, but also learning it relatively late in your lives, at least in Jason's case, and continuing to do it. I don't think my body would be able to tolerate it. And I'm glad because I like having my eyes and I like

not pooping on the beach. So there you go. But I'm very glad that you two continue to serve and I'm glad that you get so much pleasure out of it, but you get a different kind of pleasure. My wife, who is a whole human being in her own right, has a sister who is also a whole human being in her own right. And they have two different an older sister and they have two different, she also has a younger sister, but that's not part of the story. She and her older sister have two different ways of looking at the world, which my wife has termed as being one of them. And this is a common term if you look it up.

It's a psychological term. It's maximizer versus satisficer. And a maximizer personality is someone who basically wants to catch the best waves and will wait and wait and wait and do a lot of research until they determine which is the maximal wave to catch. Whereas a satisfier just wants satisfying waves and will not do all of that research, but instead be satisfied, right, with whatever comes their way. In my wife and her sister's world, my wife is more of a satisficer in terms of all kinds of life choices. I had never

heard this term before until my wife is a whole human being on her own right spelled it out for me. And I think it makes a lot of sense in terms of how people understand themselves in the world and how you guys might understand each other's relationship and your individual personalities. It makes a lot of sense even though satisficer is not a word. And it makes me really mad every time I hear it and say it. Maximizer is a word.

You are one, Miguel. And I hate to say it, Jason, but you're a Satisficer, which is not a word. It doesn't even sound good. It doesn't even sound, it's not even, it shouldn't even, I mean, English is a living language, but this one should not be allowed. But I mean, it speaks to the problem that you are facing as you go forward in your lives, as your, as your friendship and your bodies mature and you have less time to spend surfing together, it is understandable that you would deal with that reduced surfing time differently,

that you, Miguel, will use your charts and graphs, trying to maximize your surfing experience, whereas you, Jason, are more of a satisficer. You want to spend that limited time getting as much surfing in as possible. And both approaches are correct. And yet they are not, they are essentially mutually exclusive in terms of the experience that you like. You can't, you know, when Jason said, I like standing on the beach with my friend, having coffee and not surfing almost as much as I like surfing. And you're like, well, there's a 20 minute walk to Black's beach.

That's not what he likes. Respect the fact that you are different and you're never going to get the exact same kind of pleasure from surfing, and you should be able to make a chart and figure out how to satisfy or maximize both of your experiences, which is to say, your friends, Miguel, you got to compromise. You can't just be Black Speech every time. You can go to Black Speech on your own and have that experience, that maximal experience that you like. And Jason can go to Bunny Trail Beach or whatever it is and float around in the little limped waves

and be satisfied by that individually. But if you're going to be together, you're going to have to trade off. I'm sorry. It's just the way it is. And I was just going to go ahead and rule in Jason's favor, but Jason actually presented an even better solution, which is that you use your charts and graphs for good. If you're doing the research, find a beach that is not Black's Beach every other time that has the kind of waves you want, or at least the potential for it. Maximize your non-black speech experience by going to your charts and graphs. But you have to alternate back and forth every now and then. I know what a jetty is.

This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the court. Miguel, how are you feeling? I can live with it, you know? I'm okay. I think that's a good point actually. I hadn't really ever considered maximizing for another spot just because I just, I do have that much faith in black speech, but I can live with it. You have that much faith. For my buddy, for my buddy, my good buddy that I love so much. Jason, how do you feel?

I feel great. This is great. I mean, Miguel really is good at prognosticating, and I'd love to see him apply that and actually find some spots where it's good and not crowded. Jason Miguel, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Thank you. Thank you. Another Judge John Hodgman case is in the books. We're gonna have swift justice in just a second. First, our thanks to Redditor Banjo Solo, who named this week's episode. If you wanna name a future episode, join us on Reddit at maximumfun.reddit.com.

That's where we ask for our title suggestions. And it's fun even just to see them. They're always very fun. Evidence and photos from the show are on our Instagram account at instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. And of course, on the episode page for this episode at MaximumFun.org, you can find us on TikTok

and YouTube at Judge John Hodgman Hod, including Judge John Hodgman's story about Vincent D'Onofrio and my story about my dad's drug-induced psychosis. Let me just tell you, one of these stories is not like the other. Because one of these stories is not like the other. Ha! Because one of these stories is unlike anything I've ever

heard before in my life. Follow and subscribe. You can also see the, like, the nice neon waves that were behind our litigants this week at their studio in San Diego. Thanks. Do we got anybody up on the Apple Podcasts this week? We do.

I want to thank JDGInstagramz. That's JDGInstagramz over on Apple Podcasts for the lovely review and, I dare say, five-star rating. JDInstagramz says, listening to this on 11-6-2024. Necessary serotonin boost on a bleak day. Snorted out loud. Thank you. Thank you, JD. Instagram's, you know, it is not only our pleasure and privilege

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We're going to have Webby Award winners. Just lead with that. Hey, do you like Webby Award winners, you can say? Everyone does. Everyone loves a Webby Award winner. Everybody does. Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman.

This episode engineered by Brian Stamp at Signature Sound in San Diego, California. Hey, John, you know our friend, San Francisco comedian, Scott Simpson? I do, very, very funny man. Very funny guy. Good guy. Years ago, Scott guested on an episode of Jordan Jesse Go

that we recorded live on stage at San Diego Comic-Con. Very famous Comic-Con. Very famous Comic-Con. We ended up having our mics cut and getting escorted off stage. Whoa. It was a whole thing. But before we were escorted on stage,

Scott said the, my favorite thing that anyone's ever said about San Diego, which is, did you know what the town sigil is? What the crest is, the city crest for the city of San Diego? Well, no, I mean, I don't know, maybe a submarine? It's a volleyball with a flip flop rampant. Okay.

Scott Simpson, everybody, look him up. Scott Simpson, our social media manager, Natty Lopez, the podcast edited by AJ McKeon our video producer Daniel Spear our producer is Jennifer Marmer now Swift justice small disputes and quick judgment Turducken Everest on the Maximum Fund subreddit asks My wife gets very upset with the first tiny ding we get in a new car.

I find it liberating from that point forward. I don't worry so much about where I park the car. Should I care more or should she care less? Well, you and your wife, Turducken-Everest are also facing a maximizer versus satisficer discrepancy in how you process distress in your life. I hate that ding. That initial ding really hurts. I haven't owned a lot of cars in my life, but when something happens to it, it used to send me into a very, very deep soul hole for a long time, because you feel like this perfect thing that I've maximized is no longer perfect anymore.

Whereas you are more of a satisfied. So you're like, great, it was going to happen anyway. And just the life comes at you. And sometimes you get dinged. I'm glad to say that I have moved more in your direction to duck and Everest in that I do believe that life comes at you and you get dinged and it's good to be able to breathe through it, but that isn't to discredit the way that your wife feels if your wife feels that way,

it's not a question of who should care more or less. You're going to care exactly as much as you are ever going to care. And you might have a very different temperamental difference around that. And each way is equally good and you can't really change it, but you can learn how to tolerate that distress a little bit more effectively. And for that, I would recommend looking up dialectical behavioral therapy online and looking at their distress tolerance skills. They helped me a lot in life and with regard to car ownership and even with regards to catastrophic world events. So I'll leave you with that. Joe Chosman, I got to tell you this. I had never had a new car until I bought a Volvo

station wagon about maybe six years ago, something like that. I've since sold it, but. Yeah. Well, cause it got that one ding and you couldn't look at it anymore. It had a couple, it had a couple little, I mean, I park on the street in the city. Yeah, yeah.

Dings are going to happen. It had a few things. Dings are gonna happen. But you know what? Maybe three years, four years into me owning the car, I was looking at these dings and I was like, you just gotta be a guy. I got a guy, John.

I got a good painless guy and I had him come out. There was one ding that was particularly unpleasant. And I said, what if you just did all of them? Could I give you an extra hundred bucks and you just do all of them, all these little ding-dongs? And he said, yeah, sure, I'm already here. Oh, you gotta get a painless guy. Painless PDR, painless dent removal.

Get a guy who comes out to your house. You give him your $300 and he just fixes it all. Oh, it's such a dream. Turducken, write down these six letters. PDR for painless dent removal and DBT for dialectical behavioral therapy. With those six letters, I think you and your wife will be able to confront a lot of distress in your life. Hey, speaking of distress, it's December and it's dark at four o'clock in the afternoon

now. Boo. It's dark and it's cold. It's getting to be wintertime. You're probably staying inside with other people. When you are wrapped with other people in a cabin in the woods, things tend to happen. Demons come out or you just start fighting with each other. What are some of your deep dark cold wintertime disputes that we can settle for you?

Did your friend promise to knit you a hat last year and you still haven't seen it? Is your partner trying to turn up the heat even though you think they should really just put on a sweater? Did your roommates veto the 2005 film The Family Stone for your upcoming movie night? Again, again? They wanted to watch Home for the Holidays, Home for the Holidays. Does your daughter,

who's a whole human being in your own right, is she going to force you to watch Love Actually again? No, again? Oh yeah. Oh boy. It's a whole thing. If you've got winter related disputes, send them to me and Jesse and Jennifer

and the whole J squad at maximumfund.org slash JJ HO. That URL again, maximumfund.org slash JJ HO. No matter what the dispute is about, it is the lifeblood of our program. So go to maximumfund.org slash JJ HO and submit it to us right now. And John, no matter who you are out there in the Judge John Hodgman listening audience right now.

And I extend this to Jen and Daniel, AJ listening to John, you yourself, may the 12 huge men representing every race of the world judge that you deserve to live. We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.