Judge John Hodgman - You Can't Hurdle the Truth

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

Zack brings the case against his brother, Nick. Zack claims to have been a member of their high school track team. Nick says: IT NEVER HAPPENED! Who’s right? Who’s wrong?Thanks to reddit user u/Junk_Mutluck for naming this week’s case! To suggest a title for a future episode, keep an eye on the Maximum Fun subreddit at maximumfun.reddit.com!Judge John Hodgman’s Van Freaks Roadshow is on! Visit vanfreaksroadshow.com for ticket links, other dates, cities, and more information! And SUBMIT YOUR CASES along the tour route at maximumfun.org/jjho!

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm bailiff Jesse Thorne. This week, you can't hurdle the truth. Zach brings the case against his brother, Nick. Zach claims to have been a member of their high school track team. Nick says it never happened. Who's right? Who's wrong?

Only one can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference. I'm a human being, a whole human being in my own right, and I've got thoughts and secrets and a bloody life inside me that he doesn't know is there, and he'll never know what's there, because he's stupid. I suppose you'll laugh at this, me saying the judge is a brawly bastard.

But what I say is true, right enough. He's stupid, and I'm not, because I can see further into the likes of him than he can see into the likes of me. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear the litigants in. Zach and Nick, please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God or whatever? I do. I do. Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he is barred from track and field

competition. I do. Yes. I'm not going to get into why. Let's just say some people got javelined. Some people got javelined, and I think the object of the javelin is to not javelin anybody, which no one

explained to me. It seems like tempting fate to put that in somebody's hand. Anyway, Nick and Zach, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment. And one of your favorites, can either of you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased while I entered this fake courtroom of internet law? Well, let me say, Zach, you start first. I believe you're quoting the movie Prefontaine starring Jared Leto. Sorry, what did you say?

I believe it's starring Jared Leto. And I'm just, Jesse, are you hearing words? I'm just hearing nonsense syllables to me. Just sounds like nonsense syllables. Yeah, I don't know. Prefontaine, I remember that movie. Who was the actor again? Jared Leto.

Meow, meow, meow? No, I don't recognize it. Okay, anyway, what about you, Nick? What's your guess? I'm going to guess a quote from the Good Dr. Morbius starring Matt Smith. The Good Dr. Morbius? There was a movie Morbius starring some actor I've never heard of that had Matt Smith in it. Is that what you mean?

Yes. Oh, okay. Was there a Good Dr. Morbius and a bad Dr. Morbius in Morbius? I admit I didn't see it. You got to watch to find out. No, I don't. Because I don't know what words you were saying, but I've disliked that guy all the way since Jordan Catalano

from the beginning, Jesse Thorne. Too good looking. Too good looking is what I said. You've always been more of a without limits guy when it comes to movies about Steve Prefontaine from 1997 and 1998. That's right. I forgot there was a duel, if not a race, of Prefontaine movies to the box office. It's like when there were those two asteroid movies at the same time.

Whoever wins, we all lose. In any case, all guesses are wrong that was a quote from the short story the loneliness of the long distance runner written in 1959 by alan stilto one of the angry young men's school of british working class writers and playwrights of the 1950s and 1960s. Oh, Jesse, those angry young men, they really stuck it to the upper class. Yeah, the angry young men. They were so angry. It was adapted to film in 1962, starring Tom Courtenay, and then adapted into a quote by me just now.

I did add a few words here and there. You can find the original quote on Goodreads. Yeah, I'm a member. But I adapted it as a tribute to the folks at the Maximum Fun subreddit who every week, week after week, offer us some very funny names for cases. This week, there were so many good ones. I'm not going to do this every week, so don't go, don't get excited, Redditors. This week, I have to acknowledge a few really good ones, including Chariots of Lyre by Grammar Giraffe, Laps, L-A-P-S, of Memory by Junk Mutluck, because this has to do with track and field and running and stuff. Modern Pentrash-o-mon by Mr. Pants. Pretty good.

From Turducken Everest, The Loneliness of the Long-Distance Liar, which made me think of this short story and movie that I had heard of but never seen or read, except for this one quote. The reason I didn't pick The Loneliness of the Long-Distance Liar, Turducken Everest, and I'm sorry I didn't, is that we do tend to lean towards the ones with a legal connotation. Something that has a reference to law. And we do that not to be too pedantic, but mostly to avoid merely trafficking in puns, which is loathsome. Try to give it a little bit of a legal theme. So the runner up, so to speak, was Track Suit by Acone419.

That was pretty good. And of course, this week we chose You Can't Hurdle the Truth, also submitted by Junk Mutluck because of Jack Nicholson screaming in the witness box in the 1992 movie, A Few Good Men. I like modern pent Rashomon because it reminds me of Max Funn's own Olympian, Donna Vicalis, of the Canadian modern pentathlon team who competed in the Olympics using a laser gun purchased by Max Funsters for her called Maximum Gun. And we had a very famous Judge John Hodgman case called Rasho Mom, which was not legal themed. But yeah, I'm keeping it legal for the most part. I'm trying to keep everything legal.

You know what I mean, Jesse? Above board legal. I understand. Doesn't mean you can't go over there and make all the fun puns you want and enjoy them because they really are enjoyable over at the Maximum Fun subreddit, MaximumFun.reddit.com. Zach, Nick, who comes to this court seeking justice? I do, Judge. And that would be Zach. That's me. And Zach, we have history, do we not? We do. Yes, we do. I have ruled in your favor before, not on the podcast, right, but in print in the New York Times Magazine? That's correct. What was the nature of that case?

Refresh my memory. You were visiting your brother. Yes, I was visiting my brother. And your brother's spouse, who is a whole human being in their own right. Correct. I was not permitted to use the bathroom inside. I had to go outside to use the restroom. Urinate in the backyard.

Yes. And that was the nature of my case, was I wanted to be permitted to use the restroom. Because Nick and his spouse, who's a whole human being in her own right, were convinced that if you were allowed to use the bathroom, you would knock over glassware and huge cabinets full of silverware and wake the baby or something because you're a trick like Oath. That's correct. Yes. All right. I'll hear from you in a moment, Nick. And how did I rule, Zach?

Remind me of that. Did I rule in your favor? Yes, you did. You ruled in my favor. I ordered that your brother let you use the bathroom like a real human being. That's correct. So what is your latest complaint about your brother since you've already gotten justice once from me? What's the latest? My latest complaint is that when I was in high school, I competed on the indoor track team for one semester, and my brother refuses to accept that this, in fact, happened.

Nick, is your brother lying about this? Everything he says is true, except the fact that he was on the track team. At the time, he states to have been on the track team. Nobody talked about this. My parents never talked about it. He brought it up five years later as if it was something we all knew. And that's when his dance with the lies began. All right, Zach, presuming you are telling the truth,

tell me about your season or your semester on the track team. What did you do? How did it happen? You know, the best lie tellers, Jesse Thorne, are elaborate lie tellers. Specificity is not only the soul of narrative, it's also the soul of lies. So feel free to get Baroque, Zach, and crochet me a highly filigreed cozy of lies. I remember it was a particularly cold winter. It was 2006. I was on the track team. I threw the shot put. That was my one and only event that I participated in. I'm not a natural athlete.

that I participated in. I'm not a natural athlete. I do remember that I competed in probably four track meets, which were held at our local community college. I remember that there was a ridiculous uniform that you had to wear that was probably a little too tightly fitting for me. I was not a good athlete. I did not score in last place, but probably scored in the top two percentile. No, the bottom two percentile. And then I did it for one season. It was sort of not a big moment of my life. It was something that I tried out for fun. So it's not unreasonable that it didn't make a lot of waves at the family dinner table. Now, all of this could be true, Zach. But it might also still be true that you were not a member of the team.

For all I know, you just showed up one day and started throwing the shot put around because you wanted to give it a try. Do you remember filling out a form? Do you remember getting a uniform issued to you? Or did you steal it from the locker room and then sneak onto the field? Like the greatest high school comedy of all time that I'm just making up in my head. The accidental, the loneliness of the accidental shot putter. I do remember having a uniform issued to me i don't remember if there was a form that i filled out who was your coach uh our coach was

quick quick quick zach what was the name of your coach his name was craig it was craig coach craig coach craig that's unbelievable to you jesse craig is a made-up name. Craig is a made-up name. Seems a little... Do you remember a last name? I believe his last name was Bathgate. Hang on, let me write that down in my favorite list of made-up names. Craig Bathgate. What did it feel like to throw that shot put? Had you ever done it before? I had never done it before that season, no.

Shot put is the big weight, right, Jesse Thorne? and no. Shot put is the big weight, right, Jesse Thorne? That's right. It's a big ball that is a bit like a cannonball. Right. Trying to get it far away or are you trying to get it into a score hole or something, Zach? You're trying to throw it as far as you can. Okay. So take me through it because this is how I'm going to determine whether or not you even actually touched a shot put in your life. Talk to me about the first time you approached the put. You put the put in your hand and then you tried to put the put as far away from you as possible. Where were you?

What did it look like? What did the put feel like in your hand? Just tell me about it. We had track practice in the gym and we would roll out mats and we would use that to throw the shot put inside. I do remember picking it up and expecting it to be heavier than it was. It was certainly heavy. you had to hold it up by your neck close to your shoulder and kind of push it out, as opposed to, they said, if you tried to throw it like a baseball,

it would really damage your shoulder. I remember picking it up and thinking, this reminds me of like a duck pin bowling ball and wishing that maybe I'd signed up for bowling instead. Incredible to me that there are schools where you can sign up for bowling. I know it's true, but it's absolutely mind-blowing. Jesse Thorne, do you hear that reference to incredibly regional bowling style called duckpin bowling? Yeah, I did. Give me one reason I shouldn't rule in Zach's favor right now. He just said duckpin bowling. Where are you guys from? The Mid-Atlantic? The Delmarva

Peninsula? Maryland? What? Eggers Town, Maryland. Eggers Town, Maryland. Because duck pin bowling is kind of a Maryland thing. Describe duck pin bowling. Duck pin bowling is 10 of the smallest pins you've ever seen. And rolling down the thing is also the smallest bowling ball you've ever seen. And I'd like to say Zach did bring up duck pin bowling, but my daughter did hurt her finger last weekend duck pin bowling. So if he were to get a ruling in his favor for that, could I at least get partial ruling in my favor? For hurting your child?

The duck pin ball hurt her finger. I definitely find in favor of your daughter against that mean bowling ball. I hope she's feeling better. Let's take a quick recess and hear about this week's Judge John Hodgman sponsor. We'll be back in just a moment on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course. Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at MaximumFun.org, and they are all your favorites.

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Rules and restrictions apply. The shot put is heavier than a duck pin bowling ball. That definitely puts it in context that everyone understands. Everyone from parts of Maryland to probably some parts of other states next to Maryland. You've got this thing that's a little lighter than a duck pin crooked into the crook of your neck, getting ready to push it away. Coach Bathgate, Coach Craig is telling you, push, don't throw. What happens? The first time I threw it, I pushed it and definitely overestimated how far I'd be able to throw this. I think it maybe went about six or seven feet, which I think is probably the level zero of shot put that it just sort of, you know, falls down in front of you.

Six or seven feet was your first put? That's correct. And they wanted you back on the team? There was never a discussion about should I come back on the team. After that one season, I decided it was not for me. And so I resigned with a poor record, but I resigned. In glory. In glory. Yes. But you must have done it more than one time. Are you saying your entire contribution to the team was this one six or seven foot drop? No, I had many practices and I believe there were

probably four or five track meets where I did go and compete. Describe in detail the uniform. The uniform was a black and red tank top that came with matching black and red striped shorts. Our mascot for our high school was the hubs. And so it said hubs, H-U-B-S, across the front. What is that a reference to? Different kind of bowling? We were the hub of a bunch of railroads.

We're also the hub of I-81 and I-70 in Hagerstown. The hubs, Jesse Thorne, the hubs. Also, they were named by somebody's aunt captioning a photo of her husband on Facebook. That's right. Nick, I got to tell you, this story is very specific. Seems very plausible. And yet, no.

Are you, who's older here, Nick? You or Zach? I'm older. How many other siblings do you have? We each have one older brother, Dwayne, and the youngest of us is Sarah. We're all three years apart. So you and Zach are the two of us is Sarah. We're all three years apart. So you and you and Zach are

the two middle children. Yes. You were in high school at this time, Zach. What year were you in when you were a shot putting junior? OK, by now, Nick, by the time that Zach was a junior in high school, presumably you had been graduated from high school. Yeah. Where were you living? Were you living at home? Were you out in the world? What? It sounds like it's going to hurt my case, but I was actually in Quebec at the time on a study abroad program. Studying weird regional forms of bowling? In my French classes,

I heard them talk about Le Duck Pen, and I had to find out more in person. So you were out of the country. Yes. When Zach was slinging shot put for the hubs. Yes. But because I was out of the country, my communication with my family was probably the best it has ever been. Just routine calls with my parents where you'd kind of go through every family member.

Oh, what's Zach up to? What's Dwayne up to? But never once did, oh, Zach's doing track and field. Oh, we got to go to a track meet this weekend. My parents have always been supportive about us being in sports, even when we were terrible. They showed up to every football game I was in all four years of high school. So, yeah, they would show up to every band competition. My mom would have this thing where the band gets ready and the announcer goes, band, are you ready? Drum major does something and it gets real silent for like three seconds.

And during that time, my mom would always yell out, love you, Doodle. Love you, Bubby. Love you, Scooter. Are those original names for clarinets and trombones or are those nicknames for you? They were nicknames for us. So Zach, how do you account for the fact that if what you're saying is true, your parents never mentioned it to Nick while he was in Quebec? on the track team was just simply not at all exciting or noteworthy. And that it's very likely that it just did not come up in casual conversation. Did they ever come to any of your meets?

They did. They did come to one meet. And how did you perform in that meet? I believe I threw the shot put further than six feet. I want to say around 15 to 16 feet, which was certainly an improvement, but not great. That's great. Did you have a good time as a member of the track team, if that is true? I certainly enjoyed it. It was different. I knew that it wasn't for me, but I didn't dread competing.

Why do you think your brother wants to deny your lived existence? I think that when we were in school, when my brother was on the football team, our football team, the Hubs, actually went pretty far into the state tournament. And that was always a proud moment for him. So I think he's trying to hold on to the, what little credit we have as Jameson athletes. I think he's trying to capture all of it and hang on to it. Is this a high school where the football team is like the best thing and they're just called the hubs and everything else is like

a subset of the hubs. Like the band is sort of like the musical hubs and the track squad is the sub hubs or whatever. I would say my senior year when we went undefeated, we were the big thing. And I had a record that year. And my record was I was the only player to get thrown out of a game. That was my only contribution that season. Every other year, the football teams, I wouldn't say that big of a deal. Why did you get thrown out?

Did you bring a duck pin bowling ball onto the field? Smack some heads? The guy who was across from me kept diving at my knees. And even as a teenager, I knew my knees were going to be in big trouble later on. Right. And so I punched him. Well, that's how you brush him off, right, Jesse? That's what happens in baseball?

Yeah. Nick, I'm going to be honest. You don't look like a puncher. That's what the principal said because I had to have a mandatory meeting with him afterwards. And he said, we will just tell everyone we had this talk. You can sit over there for five minutes and then go back to class. Wow. Well, you did send in some evidence, Zach, and that is a yearbook photo of the indoor track team. And it was a co-ed track team, it seems to me. Correct? Correct. And just to be perfectly clear here, let's see. Indoor track, row one, Amanda, Taryn, Tia, Hillary, Elizabeth, Carly, Elena, Mary, row

two, Devin, Audrey, Sabrina, Tara. I'm just waiting for your name here. Josette, Sarah, Schnee, Amanda, row three, Brittany, Rebecca, Breen, Betsy, Susan. The last names are incredible too, but I'm not going to read them because they're individuals. Lauren, Whitney, Lauren again, Lauren too. Wow. Courtney, Octavia. What year was this?

2006. 2006. That's a hot name for 2006. Octavia, Jada. Row four. Here we go. Here we go. Travis, Lucas, Jovan, Charlie, Chris, Ben, Ben too. Sean, Ben. Three. jada row four here we go here we go travis lucas jovan charlie chris ben ben two sean ben three

wow row five you got to be back here thomas hemagiri phil brandon derrick another travis another william paul wait a minute zach i'm sure your name would have come up if you were in this photo. What's going on here? I am not in the photo, Judge. Wow. Explosive. Strikes are good in duck pin bowling, but not in the court of Judge John Hodren. Strike one. Explain.

I don't have a great answer as to why I wasn't in the photo. I was pretty aloof in high school. And so it's very possible that I was notified about said photo time and then just failed to arrive when it was supposed to happen. Zach, are you a vampire? Not that I know of. Well, that strikes that explanation. So why did you send this photo in? This proves nothing. I thought in the interest of fairness that I should provide the photo because that would be the first kind of tangible piece of evidence. But you did send in a text exchange with Mary, who is one of the people pictured in this photo, correct?

That's correct. Mary, what was her sport in track and field? She threw the shot put as well. Oh, okay. I said to Mary, you were on the winter track team in 2006, our junior year, correct? And she wrote back, yep, winter track, all four years. We're doing it as a dialogue between you and me. All right, Zach, this is your line, go.

Was I on the indoor track team in 2006? Oh, geez, I can't remember. You were at one point, I remember. I remember you for shot put, not discus. So that would be indoor. How was my line reading, Zach? Did I get the part? That was excellent, Judge. Thank you very much.

All right. That seems pretty, pretty, I don't know if this is a word, but confirmatory. You also have a message from your sister who remembers attending a track meet. That's correct. Would you please read what your sister Sarah wrote to you? She wrote, I asked her if she remembered me being on the winter track team. She wrote, yes, I sadly recall going to one indoor track meet at HCC and seeing you in that uniform that no one should be forced to wear. You did shot put and they had different events going

on at the same time. You had to dodge the runners to leave the area. This seems wildly dangerous for you to be dodging runners while throwing a shot put. I don't know, Nick, this seems pretty conclusive to me. How do you respond to this evidence drop? Well, I did get some evidence of my own from two people who were on the track team. All right. Chris, who was middle row, I believe, probably between two to three bends. And also Handsome Rob, who submitted a sealed affidavit, which has remained sealed, at least to me.

All right. Well, let's read this affidavit from Chris, because it's one line. Chris, this is no comment on your handsomeness. I, Chris, do solemnly swear under penalty of death that I do not remember Zach on the winter track team of 2006-2007. Chris, what do you think about that, Zach? Does Chris undermine your case or is Chris corrupt Chris?

I do not personally know Chris, but I could imagine that we would not have crossed paths because if you were throwing shot put, you would have went to one area to practice and if you were a runner, you would have went to a different area to practice. So there would not have been a lot of paths crossed except during the event when you had to dodge them to leave.

Just re-scanning this photo caption, I only see one Chris and we're going to have to bleep out the last name so as to not to dox this Chris. But Nick, will you confirm or deny, is this Chris? That is correct. What do you remember about Chris' last name redacted, Nick? What was Chris' sport? I do not remember what sport he played. Wow.

I was in Quebec at the time. How did you know to reach out to him? I mentioned something to a group of friends, and then when Chris's brother, Tyler, said that, oh, I think Chris was on the team, and then the picture backed up that, yes, Chris was, in fact, on the team. Interesting.

And then you have an affidavit from Handsome Rob. That's correct. Zach, tell me about Rob. Do you remember Rob? I do remember Rob. We... You don't remember Chris because everyone tries to forget Chris. That's correct. But you remember Handsome Rob, right? So Handsome. I do remember Handsome Rob. We crossed paths a few times because I was good friends with one of his siblings.

Cross paths a few times because I was good friends with one of his siblings. I have good memories of Handsome Rob. All right. And Nick, you asked Handsome Rob for an affidavit either confirming or denying your brother's participation in the track team. And you say that it has been sealed. You have not reviewed this evidence yourself, Nick? Correct. In the same group chat with Tyler, Handsome Rob's brother-in-law, Chris, said, oh, I think Rob was on the team. I'll ask him. And then Rob said he would submit,

only if it remained sealed. And I have respected that. Bailiff Jesse Thorne, would you please go get the court of Judge John Hodgman unsealer? Go for unsealer. Unsealer flying in. Why is this thing so heavy? All right, here we go. Let's have some unsealing unsealer flying in why is this thing so heavy all right here we go let's have some unsealing music please all right this affidavit is now unsealed i robert the handsome having first been sworn duly blah blah blah boy you really went into legalese here. Unrelated to the applicant, Zach, by blood or marriage. I've known Zach since 2005.

He was a participating member of North Hagerstown High School's marching band, Go Musical Hubs, alongside my brother, Addy. I consider Zach at best to be a middling member of his community, I consider Zach at best to be a middling member of his community who has most likely contributed little to nothing in means of progress towards society's development or advancement. Wow. Wow, Zach, how does that make you feel? It makes me feel like a Shrek-like oaf, Judge. No one asked Handsome Rob's opinion about Zach's contribution to society. Nick, did you put him up to this uh i did not your honor handsome rob sounds like dastardly rob handsome rob doesn't sound like

what's on the inside is what counts rob yeah handsome rob is a little too high on his own handsome supply i think he can just go ahead and trash zach in my courtroom just for funsies. Handsome Rob doesn't understand how hard nerds are willing to turn against the handsome as soon as they show any sign of ill will. I'm going to find Handsome Rob's last name in this caption. I'm going to put it out there on the subreddit. We'll see what happens to Handsome Rob. I think Handsome Rob's gonna get his knees punched like a football player on the hubs.

Anyway, paragraph three testimony. Zach was affiliated with North Hagerstown High School's indoor track and field team. What? And most likely, however hard to believe, a quote, athlete on said team during the winter season of 2006 2007 i too

was on this team wow jesse thorne just in case you uh underestimated the hubris of handsome rob not only did he sign and date this affidavit he signed and dated in the state of tennessee county of hamilton just so you can narrow it down, nerds. You can go find handsome Rob there. We'll post this whole affidavit because there's a long narrative. It was during this time that we were attending a track meet, where upon waiting for my event, I was resting in a sleep sack amongst my North High comrades. Go hubs. While on verge of falling asleep, I saw Zach lumbering toward me, incensed, While on verge of falling asleep, I saw Zach lumbering toward me, incensed, eyes red with gratuitous hate. He took firm hold of my sleep sack and yanked it 20 or so yards into the throng

of another school's assemblage. In shock, I laid there in disbelief for five minutes before excusing myself from the competing school's company. It's rumored that Zach went on to yank five or six other sleep sacks throughout the gymnasium. All that being said, it is unfortunately true that Zach was in fact affiliated with the North Hagerstown High School GoHubs indoor track and field team. Hubba dub! I cannot for good measure tell you in what way or capacity he served on the team, but just that he was there for at least one meet when he unleashed unwarranted recklessness

against a handful of his own teammates signed Handsome Rob, State of Tennessee, County of Hamilton, sworn to and subscribed on this ninth day of October 2023. Zach, there's a whole new set of charges here. Why did you grab Handsome Rob's sack? I have to say that I don't remember this particular incident, though it is not at all out of character for me to grab someone's sleep sack and pull them across the gym floor. Wait, did you have to spend the night in the gym? Why were people in sleep sacks? Is that different from a sleeping bag? Was this like a Natural history museum sleepover?

Track meets were notoriously long events, and your particular event that you were competing in would only last for a few seconds. So there was a great deal of downtime. So bringing a sleep sack, bringing something to do to fill time was not uncommon. Nick, can you confirm that these track and field meets were campouts as well? I've never heard the word sleep sack in my life, Your Honor.

Handsome Rob is your friend. You're the one who reached out to him for the Sabbath, David. You calling him a liar now? He really snaked my bacon, Your Honor. I'm in disbelief over here. Technically, Nick. Judge Hodgman! He did what

to you, Nick? This is actually a Stuart Wellington-ism. He snaked my bacon. Yeah, that's a Flophouse saying. Snaked his bacon. You were expecting Handsome Rob to come through for you. But just like every Handsome Rob on Earth, Handsome Rob to come through for you. But just like every Handsome Rob on Earth, Handsome Rob only had his own handsome self on his mind and not only snaked your bacon,

but then launched a bunch of other accusations against your brother. What do you think about Handsome Rob now, Nick? I was too blinded by the eyes, the smile, the hair. You turn to handsome against your own blood. Now, Nick, Zach has accused you of being selectively forgetful. But now Zach is saying, I have no memory of throwing handsome Rob around in his sleep sack. Does any of this comport with any reality that either of you recognize? Does it sound like something Zach would do? A hundred percent. Yes. Why? It's kind of a fun of a man. He, uh,

a little bit of a rabble rouser. All of it sounds like something he would do except for being at a track meet. I mean, it seems clear your honor that he did it given that the reason he said he couldn't remember doing it was because he had done that so much. Can you imagine taking the stand in a murder trial and they're like sir did you commit this murder and he says well i don't remember committing that murder i've murdered frequently

your honor there have been a lot of murders zach i'm i'm looking at you now time has taken its toll on all of us but you look like a broad-shouldered person. Did you use shot put because you had some strength to you? Some heightened strength to you? I certainly had a lot of height. I was about 6'2 in high school. Now I'm about 6'3. Couldn't say I had a lot of strength, but I am definitely broad shoulders and had some height. I will repeat.

I saw Zach lumbering toward me, eyes red with hate. He took firm hold of my sack and yanked it 20 or so yards. That's 60 feet. That's farther than you've ever thrown a shot, but you threw a man in a sack. You telling me you weren't strong, Zach? Or had you been bit by a rabid hub? I imagine if I was going to do it, if I was going to move said sleep sack, I would have just dragged it along the gym floor as opposed to throwing it shot put style. But why would you even drag it, Zach?

I would guess that I thought it was funny at the time. You thought it was funny at the time. Nick, was Zach a Zach bully? No, Zach was always a nice boy. And we were nice to each other. I was probably more of the bully. Are you bullying him now by refusing to believe his lived experience? No, this is just love and wanting him to be right with the world. No, this is just love and wanting him to be right with the world. But every bit of evidence, except from the letter from the notoriously unreliable Chris, confirms that he was at least a member, or at the very least, what Handsome Rob was willing to say, affiliated with the track team. He was at a track team. He did throw the shot, but he did. He was there.

He hurt Handsome Rob's poor handsome face and butt. Why do you refuse to accept that he was part of the team? A little bit. I think he might have gotten the Handsome Rob who loves to throw his location out there, making him available for. Handsome Rob is not on trial. Handsome Rob's day will come. Nick, you are on trial, as is Zach.

Why would Zach lie about this? Why would your family support him? He might have gotten to them. All right, Nick, you're stinking my bacon now. This is a comedy podcast, but we do insist upon truth under fake oath. Do you actually believe that he is knowingly lying about being on this track team? I did until I was presented with some of this evidence. You simply weren't around.

You were surprised to hear it. Your dad was more preoccupied with falling Canadian bridges than telling you the story. It sounded implausible to you. And it was a little bit fun to say to Zach's face what you believed happened didn't, right? Yes. And every bit of evidence he tried to produce to say he was on it was more funny than the last. Like him not being in the picture. Yeah, that's pretty funny.

The person who drove him is now in the seminary and unreachable. Whoa, what? Nick, this should have been evidence you submitted. I thought Zach was going to submit it. Someone would drive you to the track meet and then you drove them to a vow of silence. Is that correct, Zach? That's correct, Judge. When I was, I would have been a junior, so I wasn't driving yet.

And there was a friend who was not a shot putter, but on the track team, he would drive me to practice, which was usually about 7 a.m. before school. And since then, I tried to reach out to him, but was told by a relative that he was unreachable because he has joined the seminary. In what faith? I believe he has joined seminary of the Christian faith and is located somewhere in California. I bet they get emails in the seminary, don't you think, Jesse? I think they probably get emails there in the seminary. Yeah.

Unless it's a pet seminary. I don't even know what that means. What does that even mean? Don't go in the pet seminary. It's bad. Bad news. Zach, why does it bother you that nick doesn't believe you uh it bothers me because we otherwise have a pretty positive relationship and this is one

and it's not uncommon for us to to goof on each other and you know make wisecracks about each other but this is just one sticking point that he has not let go. And I think furthermore, that my mom was willing to say that she was there. My sister said that she was there. And Nick has kind of labeled us all as liars in a big scheme, as opposed to accepting the more simple answer of that I was on the track team for one season. Nick, are your family all liars? No, Sarah's probably telling the truth. My mom, her memory's not the best.

In fact, Zach got a text the night of his wedding rehearsal dinner, and my mom texted him, Zach, I hope you didn't eat those cookies I bought for the rehearsal dinner. You're allergic to them. I'm sorry. If I were to rule in your favor, Nick, it says here that you want me to order Zach to admit he was never part of Track and Field. You also want me to order him to return your copy of Assassin's Creed Valhalla. That is correct, Your Honor.

What's the story there? I let him borrow it. He said he was going to play it. I was like, great, enjoy it. I don't know if he's played it yet, but he has going to play it. I was like, great, enjoy it. I don't know if he's played it yet, but he has yet to return it. Is this true, Zach? That is true, Judge.

Well, at least he's acknowledging truth for once. Zach, if I were to order in your favor, it says you would like Nick to publicly acknowledge that you were a shot putter for the Hagerstown Hubs for one semester and that Nick has to say something nice about it. Is that correct?

That's correct. What would be a thing that Nick could say that would be nice? Nick could acknowledge my, not my athleticism, but my taking a step out of my comfort zone and signing up for track, which was absolutely a big step outside of my realm of skills. Yeah. What would that sound like coming from his mouth? What would it sound like? Hey, Zach, like what words would you have me order him to say?

Hey, Zach, you did a good job at shot, but you're not a liar. What? Yes. If he could say, hey, baby bro, you did a great job at shot put. You're in fact not a liar. And I'm very proud of you. I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision. I will go inside my private sleep sack known as my chambers and consider and I'll return with my verdict in a moment. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Zach, how are you feeling about your chances? I'm feeling pretty good about my chances.

I think even though the evidence is scant, that what evidence has been submitted speaks for itself. You claim to have done indoor track and field? That's correct. Is that just basketball? That is all of your typical outdoor track and field events just moved inside. So just like running around in a little circle? Yeah. I mean, that circle is regulation size, but yes. Oh, do they have giant gymnasiums? Do you do it in an arena? The community college we did it at did have a large gymnasium that would fit an actual size track inside of it.

The land of wonders, Maryland. Nick, how are you feeling about your chances? Oh, man, I feel like a handsome teen who's just had a sleep sack pulled out from under him. My only hope is since Zach won the last case, maybe like I'm due spread the love a little bit, but I'm not feeling too good. Wow, Nick. I mean, I'm looking at you and I'm seeing a handsome man's heart and a normal man's head.

I'm not going to lie. I'm not saying homely. I'm just saying medium and the darkness in there is really distressing me. Well, Nick, Zach, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all this when we come back in just a moment. Hello, teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching

experience, one you have no choice but to embrace, because yes, listening is mandatory. The JV club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on maximum fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S T O P P O D C A S T I. Hmm. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there?

Yeah, I'm trying to spell it, but it's tricky. Let me give it a try. Okay. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, call S-T-O-P-P-P-A-D-I. It'll never fit. No, it will. Let me try.

If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-P-D-C-O-O. Ah, we are so close. Stop podcasting yourself. A podcast from MaximumFun.org. If you need a laugh and you're on the go. Judge Hodgman, we're taking a break from the case, but we are not taking a break from the Van Freaks Roadshow. That's right.

Tonight, November 1st, we were at the Lincoln Theater in Washington, D.C. And if you missed that one because you listen to things later, we're in Portland, Maine on the 2nd with Joel Mann and the Night and Day Trio. And then we're in Boston, my hometown homecoming at the Wilbur Theater on the 6th of November. And finally, we're rounding it out with our big grand finale show, the 7th of November at the Murmur Opera House. Opera House, Jesse. Opera House. It's our huge end of the tour grand finale show in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, November the 7th. All tickets are available at vanfreaksroadshow.com. I'll say it to you again, vanfreaksroadshow.com.

It's our only show in New York this year. So if you're a Judge John Hodgman fan or you know someone who is, go to vanfreaksroadshow.com and get them a holiday gift now. Come see us in DC, Portland, Maine, Boston, and of course our grand finale in Williamsburg on November the 7th. This goes out to all boroughs. Brooklyn, Manhattan, Island of Staten, Bronx, Long Island. Nope. You had it at the Bronx. That was it. But sure. Long Island, Long Island. Nope.

You had it at the bus. Albany. That was it. But sure. Long Island, Albany, Trenton. Hey, I know Trenton makes and the world takes. But Trenton, why don't you take this opportunity to come see us in Brooklyn? It's just a New Jersey transit train away. Ferry boat.

Take a ferry. Statue of Liberty. Take a blade helicopter. You must take the L train or the G train to Williamsburg to the Murmur Opera House. We're going to have a good time. Richard Kind is going to make an appearance. I have to tell you this right now. Richard Kind will be making an appearance.

Richard Kind? I'm not going to say anything more. I'm not going to say anything more. It's going to be delightful. November 7th, vanfreaksroadshow.com. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict. So there is one person who could settle this once and for all. And that, of course, is the mysterious and maybe fictional Coach Craig Bathgate.

And I do call on Coach Craig Bathgate to prove his existence, but this message right now doesn't go out to Coach Craig. It goes out to Principal Beau Myers. Principal Beau, I have a message for you. When you had your meeting with Nick on the sidelines or the mandatory meeting or wherever it was, and you said, just act like I'm telling you something and then get back out there and smash some more heads. That was the wrong message to send to Nick. Because Nick still plays dirty. He's still punching kneecaps with duck pins, if you know what I mean.

Nick is out here. Not only did he cop. Admittedly, I had to lead him down the road, but he copped to disbelieving his brother because it amused him to disbelieve his brother. But also, he threw his own mother under the bus. Like, this is the kind of player Nick is. Like, well, your mother supported zach's memory my mother has no memory and then you made fun of your own mother and not only that when it came down to it you turned to handsome rob over your own blood and where did it get you nick all this dirty pool

all this dirty duck pin pool. Where did it catch you? Handsome Rob turned around and stabbed you right in the sleep sack. Betrayed you. For even Handsome Rob acknowledges that Zach shot some put in the winter of 2006, 2007. Go hubs. Hubba-dub. And so I have to find in Zach's favor,

yet again, though he is your younger brother, he does deserve to urinate in a bathroom and not in the yard like an animal. And though he is your younger brother, he does deserve the dignity of his own lived experience. Even though you had frou-froued off to Quebec

while he was still throwing his put, he did it. And you have to acknowledge it. And you have to say, baby bro, you're a real shot putter. Say it. Baby bro, you're a real shot putter. All right. That doesn't take you off the hook, though, Zach. For Handsome Rob did not stab merely one sleep sack this afternoon. For indeed, he revealed a crime perhaps greater than your brothers of denying your shot putting. The Great Sackgate of 2006, or whenever it was. You say you don't remember it. Perhaps you also played dirty, Zach.

I don't know what advantage throwing kids around in sleep sacks would be to your shot put game. Other than perhaps intimidation of the other team or warming up that arm of yours. But since you cannot deny that it happened, I think that it had to have happened. Even if there was a misunderstanding. Even if from Handsome Rob's point of view, it was much more severe than it actually was. You owe handsome Rob, if not an apology, probably an apology, but a reach out. You got to reach out to handsome Rob and get to the bottom of this.

See if it unlocks a memory, perhaps one that you've repressed, perhaps one that you have shot put out of your mind on purpose to protect your idea of yourself as a good guy, a one-time shot putter. And what does it say here? Oh yes. A special education teacher. Oh yeah. Such a great guy. Well, that's pretty good. Actually, special education teaching was good. You know what I mean? You got to, now that, now that you opened this door to the sins of the past and you have been exonerated, you yet have to confront what Handsome Rob brought up and find out what actually happened and offer an apology. And I dare say you may even have to go across the country to visit Father Travis or whatever denomination he is and make your confession for your sins and also thank him for all those rides that you got. But all of that said, I agree with your brother, Nick.

Baby bro, you are a good and real shot putter. This is the sound of a gavel. Judge John Hodgman rules. Go hubs. Hubba dub. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman rules. Go Hubs. Hubba dub. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom. Zach, how are you feeling?

I feel great, Jesse. I feel exonerated after 17 years, and I will absolutely reach out to Handsome Rob and offer my apologies. Zach, have you ever looked at pictures of Ryan Krauser, the champion Olympic shot putter? I can't say that I have.

This guy's unbelievable and still photographed. You've never seen someone look so contemptuous of an object that he's holding underneath his jawline like some sort of weird goiter. Absolutely unbelievable. And then he also looks like he's doing a beautiful dance. Nick, how are you feeling? I'm feeling good. And I'd just like to reiterate, Zach, I love you.

You're a great brother. You're a great shot putter. And no one can tug a sack, sleeper otherwise, better than you. Now you're telling him he's a great shot putter? You're gaslighting him one more time? I think just being able to lift that thing's good enough. Okay. Well, Zach, Nick, we're so grateful for your time. Thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Thank you. Thanks. Another Judge John Hodgman cases in the books.

We'll have swift justice in just a moment. First, our thanks to Redditor JunkMutluck for naming this week's episode, You Can't Hurdle the Truth. You can't hurdle the truth. The conversation and the requests, maximumfund.reddit.com. That's where we ask for those suggestions. Evidence and photos from the show posted on our Instagram account

at instagram.com slash judgejohnhodgman. You can follow us there. Judge John Hodgman account at Instagram.com slash Judge John Hodgman. You can follow us there. Judge John Hodgman was created by Jesse Thorne and John Hodgman. This episode engineered by Matt Levine in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. Marie Bardi Salinas runs our social media. Our producer is Jennifer Marmer. Now, Swift Justice, where we answer small disputes with quick judgment. Essex County 9 over there on the MaxFun subreddit says,

when we are looking up in our unfinished basement, I say we are looking at the ceiling. My partner says it's the floor. Note, they also refer to it as the top wall. Who's right? I know we're a little bit out of Halloween season now, but the rule is still true. Don't go in the basement.

Don't go in the basement to be terrorized by your partner who is clearly messing with your head. It is called the ceiling. It is definitely not called the top wall, and it is definitely not called the floor. Get out of that basement. Stay up here in the light. But is definitely not called the top wall and it is definitely not called the floor. Get out of that basement. Stay up here in the light. But what if it is the floor?

It's probably the sub floor that they're looking at. Maybe you could say that's the sub floor of the floor above us. Yeah. But the moment you start calling it the top wall, you know, that guy is playing some basement game. That's a bunch of baloney. Horror movie basement games. Yeah.

But, you know, there are other words for floors. On a boat, it's called the deck. I don't know what a ceiling is called. The top deck. In any case, we're looking for your boat fights. Cruise disputes. I don't know if you've ever been on a Jonathan Colton cruise or another kind of cruise, but if you've ever been on a cruise, you know someone's wrong.

Probably a lot of people. Did someone steal the decorative magnet've ever been on a cruise, you know someone's wrong. Probably a lot of people. Did someone steal the decorative magnet from your door on a cruise? Did someone take the last slice of prime rib in the wood jammer lounge? Is it ever okay on a boat or otherwise to reserve a deck chair early in the morning with a towel and then come back to it at 5 p.m.

and expect it to be free for you? Any kind of boat, and it can be small craft as well. What do we got out there? Your beetle cats, your 12 and a half harishoffs, your bullseyes, oh, your Boston whalers.

Any kind of small craft is fine. Dinghy. In a dinghy, you got any dinghy disputes? Maybe you got a Caledonian y'all dispute? Put your messages in an electronic bottle and send them to me at maximumFun.org

slash JJHO. And look, it doesn't have to be about boats. We live and die by your cases. So if you've got something, whether it's big or small, go to MaximumFun.org slash JJHO and submit it to us. We'll talk to you next time

on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.