Judging Freedom - $6.9B Found for Ukraine_ Nuke Fears Rumbling w_Jack Devine fmr CIA

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

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Thanks for watching! Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, June 23rd, 2023. It's about 1.35 in the afternoon here on the east coast of the United States. Jack Devine will be joining us right after this commercial announcement. Does he still think the spring offensive is going to work for Ukraine? We'll ask him right after this. When it comes to carrying valuables or even firearms in your vehicle, most people feel they have to choose between safety and convenience. A vehicle break-in occurs every 36 seconds in America.

The Headrest Safe gives you the power to store cash, jewelry, medication, and yes, even your concealed carry firearm. You'll never have to worry about taking your valuables with you again. Keep them safe with the Headrest Safe. Use promo code JUDGENAP and enjoy $50 off for a limited time at theheadrestsafe.com. Jack, always a pleasure, my dear friend. Welcome back to the show and thank you for your time. In your view, how is the Ukrainian spring offensive progressing? I think it's progressing exactly the way we talked about it, Judge. If you remember, I warned folks not to get their expectations too high, that I thought David and

Goliath, that David was holding off Goliath, and that was a major accomplishment. We shouldn't raise the bar too high. Having said that, I did add that I do think they would make gains in the counteroffensive. I still believe that, but that it's not suddenly driving Russia into the sea. It was never, and I know some of your folks keep track of what I said. I'm really proud of that because they remind me how accurate I've been over and over again. So some of our folks, particularly, and I know your background, of course, is obviously well known in the intelligence community, not in military, but the military folks tell us that Russia has three bands of defenses and the distance between band one and band three

is about 30 kilometers. Ukrainians haven't reached band one yet. Is that your understanding that the most they've gained, let me finish, that the most they've gained is about six or seven kilometers? Well, you know, in World War I, gaining 100 meters was considered a success. Now, I know these are the same. Well, this is 120 years later, Jack. I'm glad you're not referring to them by name because I think it's the same group that said that they were going to completely crush Ukraine in the offensive. So now that they're measuring out meters in the gains.

What's interesting is some of the troops that were the three, there was about 30,000 trained outside of the Ukraine by us, the Brits, the Germans,, and from their perspective, it did slow down. There's no question it had a negative impact on it. But this is a tough slug. I mean, and again, I go back. I didn't promise anybody a rose garden on this thing. Let's talk about where the net result is come the end of the summer. But I'm not expecting, one of the things that's interesting, they hit yesterday, I think, a missile on the land bridge between Crimea and the Russian-occupied part of Ukraine.

I think that's sort of their goal is to cut that off and make life difficult in the Crimea. So trench one and trench two, okay, good. Come back, we'll refer okay, good. Come back. We'll refer to it later. All right. Let me play for you the latest statement from the Department of Defense, a new spokesperson, or at least the spokesperson this week, Dr. Singh. And it's about a minute and 10 seconds. Let me know what you think of her analysis or her

public statement to the press about how well the U.S. military expects Ukraine to do. I think our assessments have been pretty clear from the beginning. I think, you know, we know as you continue to see the fight that it continued to move to the east. It's become more of a grinding battle every day. You saw that in Bakhmut. The Ukrainians can speak to their operations and more to the day-to-day on what's happening on the ground. But we know this is going to be a hard fight. We know this is going to take time. And we are confident that the Ukrainians have what they need.

They have the combat power. They have the ability to be successful in their counteroffensive operations. We see them launching both defensive and offensive operations right now, but I would let them speak to more of that. According to President Zelensky, the Ukrainians don't have what they need, Jack. So my question to you is, do you accept her assessment? And is the West, not necessarily Washington, but the rest of NATO, losing its interest, its appetite for this war? So let me make a couple of points, Judge. I think your statements are pretty sound. I would just say the only differences are 620. Mine are 320 in terms of saying that's what was going to happen. You never have enough. quite a bit, but they're using quite a bit. And there's no, the military, excuse me, the Defense Department came up with another six billion, which is quite a bit of money

in terms of new support for Ukraine. What's interesting today, I was reading an article from Prokofiev, the head of the Wagner Group. He castigates, again, the Russian military and says they are not doing well during this counteroffensive. So it's interesting how one of the principal – the lead guy in making the one little village that they took, Bermuda. So I'm not – I want to come back to my point.

The fact that they're just keeping Mother Russia at bay, stand up and tip your hat. I mean, so I'm one consistent guy. All right. But you're happy with more or less a stalemate, Jack, because Russia's not moving west and Ukraine's not appreciably moving east? No, I went to the Ukrainians to defeat the Russians. Clear. Okay. I do not think that's in the cards.

Okay. Excuse me, Judge. I do not think right now, and I've said this again and again and again, I do not see a deal, whether it's the Pope or Xi or African delegations trying to find a peace agreement. The ingredients for peace are not there. I wish there were. I wish there were, I wish it were. We're going to have to get to that stalemate point. And now you've had the

big offensive, now the counteroffensive, then you can begin to think about a possible stalemate. Should the Ukrainians, with the help of American and NATO equipment attack and expect to capture the Crimea? Well, let me give you my heartfelt hope, and that is I want nothing better. I want nothing better. Special Agent Devine, I want a realistic expectation. I know you hope. We all hope we go to heaven. I want a realistic expectation. I know you hope. We all hope we got it.

I want a realistic expectation. I'm Irish. You got to give me a little room for my heart. So I'm going to tell you that I really think that's a great objective. Okay. Hard to do. I think they're really smart to try and put pressure on the Crimea. That is a really good place to do. I think they're really smart to try and put pressure on the Crimea. That is a really good place to focus. So if they debilitate in any way, we're making progress. Then you're going to drive

the Russians out. It depends how long Putin can withhold himself, how long he can keep driving forces in there to contain it. This thing with the precocious is scary. I mean, he is really challenging the system. And here's the point that no one's commenting on. You're going to hear it first. I think he's developing political clout inside his country. I think what he is saying is starting to resonate more than all the propaganda

that Jack Devine could in his best day generate. All right. I didn't know that Jack Devine was generating propaganda, but I'll let you look at it. Well, go back and read my two wonderful books. I mean, I hope I get some credit for what I did. Are your, and I want to get back to Crimea in a minute because I got a great clip from General Hodges I want you to see. Are your sources, whether public or otherwise, enforcing the view you just articulated that Prokosian is building

up political support in Russia? Honestly, Judge, I really started reflecting on this this morning. This is the first day that I personally, no one else is telling me this, when I read it, there's trouble in River City on the political front and I think, I mean, I mean, a very unusual man. I mean, I would be worried about my

safety, I'd be worried, but I also think Putin should be worried about this message, which is louder than our messages. It's a Russian fighter really coming at them and saying they're not up. They hoodwinked the Russian people. I mean, that's what he said. No sugarcoating on it.

Yes, yes. What he said is that Putin lied as the publicly stated basis for the war. That's what he said. How he can get away with saying that in a society that does not respect the freedom of speech is beyond me. It is a conundrum. I give you that. But the conundrum or not, I'm willing to bet that that message resonating and undermining the political will inside of his own system. And I predicted this months ago that the real threat here is an internal threat within his own folks, Putin's own folks. You did predict that and you've been consistent. We're going to take a break. When we come back, we'll play General Hodges, retired four-star on the wisdom or lack of it in attacking Crimea. More with Jack Devine right after this.

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A year ago was the commander-in-chief of all U.S. forces in Europe. Here he is on the wisdom of attacking Crimea. Ukraine needs long-range precision weapons, and I'm very frustrated that our administration has so far refused to provide the ATACOMs and other long-range precision weapons, which would help Ukraine hit Russian targets in Crimea. Because at the end of the day, Crimea is the decisive terrain. As long as Russia occupies Crimea, Ukraine will never be safe and Ukraine will never be able to rebuild its economy. So Crimea is the decisive terrain. And if the U.S. would provide these long-range weapons to Ukraine, then the Russians would have to begin to leave Crimea. Should the U.S. lead or help an invasion of

Crimea, Jack? First of all, let me say, I didn't disagree with Hodges, you know, and he's different than the Trench 1, Trench 2, Trench 3 crowd. But I'm saying that was a serious argument. The only point with Hodges is I agree with it, but you also have to talk about what are the likely consequences of it. In other words, I agree that the long-term, longer-range weapons should be given and would help the cause and should be used in the Crimea. But we need to think about consequences. It's not cause free and we need to think about that. I would think the consequences would be potentially catastrophic

to the point of attacking the US mainland if US weaponry is used to attack Crimea, no? No. No, look, honestly, we've been this, I started at the beginning being a little tempted about giving the MiGs, and I changed my position. What is Putin going to do? I think if he loses, even looks like he's losing ground, not losing Crimea, his political risk inside his own system go up. And if you go back to my first op-ed of the week after the invasion, I said he sowed the seed of his own demise. If Hodges is right and that could happen, the political risks are high. He becomes more dangerous at that point.

But his allies inside realize he'll become more dangerous. There's mental gymnastics and high-end calculus that needs to be developed here in understanding the pros and cons of this. But I'm with Hodges. All right. Before we go to China. Sensible guy. Okay. Before we go to China, Jack, one more lens through which to examine Ukraine. Here's President Zelensky. I will have to read the subtitles. Here's President Zelensky on a warning to the world, Jack. Now, concerning the Zaporizhia, I remind those who have forgotten, this is the largest nuclear power plant. Everyone in the world, the IAEA, all countries, all leaders know exactly what is happening there. Russia uses Zaporizhia nuclear power plant as an element in its aggression. It occupies the plant. It uses it to cover the shelling of neighboring cities. It keeps weapons and troops there. Now our intelligence has received information that Russia is considering a scenario of a terrorist attack at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, a terrorist attack with radiation leakage. They have prepared everything for this.

Unfortunately, I have repeatedly had to remind that radiation has no state borders, and who it will hit is determined only by the wind direction. We share all available information with our partners, everyone in the world, all the evidence, Europe, America, China, Brazil, India, the Arab world, Africa, all countries, absolutely everyone should know this. International organizations, absolutely everyone. There should never be any terrorist attacks on nuclear power plants anywhere. This time it should not be like the Kakova. The world has been warned, so the world can and must act glory to Ukraine. The Krikova reference, of course, is to the dam. Do you really think that the Russians would blow up a nuclear power plant

that they now control? I think it's unlikely. Look, both sides, you want to make people really nervous about the word, you just mentioned the word nuclear. And I don't think it's in the cards. Cannot rule it out 100%. And that they're planning to do this and have contingency plans. I don't know enough to know where the gap is between planning and execution. So maybe Zelensky has reporting supporting this. Bring attention to the fact that the nuclear plant exists and the risk of the radiation. But again, you have to be very careful and conventional wisdom.

I'm telling that to myself. I do not think the Russians would do that. And I'm not very friendly towards Putin's actions. I don't see it. Do you think the Ukrainians would do it as a false flag in order to get NATO on the ground there? You know, the only thing, Judge, I've dealt with this all through my career in the CIA. You know, everything has a conspiracy in it. And you see a situation, could this happen?

And I'm just saying there's a gap off that I would say the predominance of conspiracies, as opposed to actually carrying them out, are about 100 to 1. And that's somebody that participated in conspiracies. All right. So I don't buy it. I don't buy it. Okay. Last week, Secretary of State Blinken spent 36 hours in Beijing, at the end of which he was publicly reprimanded by President Xi.

But he was fairly confident that he made some progress. There are, as you know and as you have written, military, political, diplomatic, economic fractures that the Biden administration wants to repair. No sooner had Secretary Blinken arrived home, landed in California, when his boss, a few miles away, also in California, at a fundraiser, referred to President Xi as a dictator. So did Joe Biden set back whatever progress Tony Blinken made? And does Tony Blinken know what he's doing? And does Joe Biden know what he's doing, according to Jack Devine? Well, let me make your issue. Where is China? What's going on here? So I think the trip was interesting in and of itself, that they actually were able to execute a meeting. But there's a dilemma here. And we did write to it in our newsletter this week, and you're reading it, and I think that's really good.

But what I was very cautious about is you have a meeting and you talk about we're going to try and do things. But some of the ingredients, it's like the peace agreement in Ukraine. It's easier to say let's make things better because I think both sides are saying how far are we going to go with this but I believe that there's a core in both countries that is building towards I don't want to say confrontation but it's becoming more and more of a punch and counter punch I do think the music sheet was out of tune between what Bilken was saying and the president. They weren't wrong, they were just out of tune. I mean, I think I'd like to find someone

who would argue that she isn't a dictator, and I think it would be hard to find someone that isn't trying to find somewhere of common ground, however narrow that may be. Certainly wasn't helpful for the president to say it in public. I mean, the public policy, and he said other things too, which I'll ask you about now. The public policy of the United States is one China. Whether you agree with it or not, that's been the law of the land. Suppose the mainland indicates its willingness and preparedness and intention to use force to subdue whatever it thinks is going on in Taiwan. Should U.S. send troops and military aid to Taiwan? Well, let me do the second part. Definitely

aid them as much as possible. Once you put American troops face to face with Chinese, then we're off to the races in terms of a world confrontation. But I think the Chinese have to look at what's happening to Russia and what is going to happen. They're much more plugged in economically and politically around the world today that if they did that all that investment is gone i also want to put down a marker which i've done maybe every six months with you and that is taking an island is no small uh challenge you've got to land troops on taiwan and it'll be a bloody mess you have to be extremely careful that whatever you're doing you do not hit an American vessel, whereas if they take any action, then we are going to respond. It's a very dangerous

situation. I'm betting that she isn't quite ready to do that, but I would- Would you make the opposite bet? Would you make the opposite bet that we are not quite ready to bring 200,000 troops and a couple of hundred ships there? First of all, I would say we're ready. That we would do it is something else. I think there's a high state of readiness, which will get more and more robust in the coming year. But I don't, I think it's a, you know, it's a end of life for human beings decision. If you decide we're going to go to war with China

and he has to make the same decision. And I think there were other civilizations, the Chinese, they play a longer game. Do you have any insight from public or non-public sources that you can share with us about the attitude of the senior military staff in the Pentagon about China? Well, I would just say that I've had low exposure in recent hours, and I would say the Pentagon is highly focused at the highest levels on the challenge that China represents, and that its message is peace

comes from over overwhelming power okay that that's that would be my my message to you that the u.s military is doing its job which is if called we've got to be ready with the best of breed and every possible weapon system but it's the political side that has to make that judgment, and readiness is one executing and deciding to execute as a political decision by an elected official. Jack Devine, always a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you very much for joining us.

Colonel Doug McGregor at 230 Eastern, more as and when we get it. Thank you for watching. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. You want to feel safe in your vehicle. With access to your firearm, that's both secure and convenient. The Headrest Safe keeps your firearm where you can access it and no one else can. It starts at theheadrestsafe.com. Thank you.