Judging Freedom - Aaron Maté : Does Trump Understand Gaza?

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

Aaron Maté : Does Trump Understand Gaza?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, February 6th, 2025. Aaron Maté joins us now. Aaron, it's a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you very much for joining us. Of course, I want to talk to you about President Trump's off-the-wall suggestion about the United States owning Gaza. Do we know if it was Netanyahu's idea or this coming from Trump's head. He's known for his outlandish ideas and for blurting them out loud. And I don't think he has any intention of doing anything about this. I think what this really is, is him declaring that unless Palestinians submit to the Israeli plan, which is ongoing, we don't need these outlandish Trump visions to tell us what the plan is. What's happening right now is the plan, which is Israel destroying Gaza, making it unlivable and forcing people to leave. And I think what Trump is basically saying to Palestinians is unless you obey that, we're not going to do anything for you. The only way you have a future is if you obey Israeli demands to leave and maybe the US can

get involved in helping to rebuild and then making very clear that Palestinians will not be welcome back. That's what Trump said. He was asked, would Palestinians be allowed to come back? And he said, no, I could see this being for all the world's people. So he's just laying out the Israeli vision in his own crude way. You know, his own crude way was manifest in the press conference with Prime Minister Netanyahu beaming next to him. But later that day on his own truth social, Trump said, quote, this is remarkable, remarkable that the President of the United States would say this. Israel will turn over Gaza to the United States. Does he not understand what's going on? Does he not know that the Israelis were basically defeated in their efforts to, not basically, but were defeated in

their efforts to expel the Palestinians? I think he does understand that. And what he's hoping that Palestinians will become so miserable that they simply leave. And this is some threat that they don't submit, then they can expect more misery and no help. I mean, this is the problem here in talking about Trump's vision. What is happening already on the ground is horrendous enough. Israel has left most of Gaza in ruins. Trump is right that many people can't live there anymore because their homes have been destroyed. Israel will never allow the supplies needed to rebuild. And so there is a lifetime of misery that awaits them. And what he's basically saying is, is I'm going to do nothing.

The way to resolve the issue would be to accept finally for the first time that Palestinians have the right to self-determination, which no Israeli or U.S. government has ever been willing to accept, despite some carefully formulated words to suggest otherwise. There's never been a fundamental recognition that Palestinians have the right to self-determination. And so Trump is not going to sign on to anything different. He also doesn't recognize Palestinians' right to self-determination. And so Trump is not going to sign on to anything different. He also doesn't recognize Palestine's right to self-determination. And so because of that, he has to come up with ways to, with other ideas. And now his administration is talking about thinking outside the box. And Mike Waltz, his national security advisor, had this line that, well, you know, this is just Trump's idea. Let's see what the Arab states in the region, what kind of solutions they can come up with. Well, let's see what the Arab states in the

region that universally condemned it. They did, and moreover, they already have a solution, which everybody ignores across the spectrum, including Democrats. Arab states in 2002 put out something called the Arab Peace Initiative, which offered Israel full normalization in exchange for Israel finally ending its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and allowing for the creation of a Palestinian state there. Plus what they called a just resolution to the refugee issue. All these Palestinians expelled from their homes in 1948 and onwards.

They weren't saying that all these Palestinians have the right to return to their homes and that's the only way that we have peace. They said a just resolution to the refugee issue, which means if Israel will not let these people come back to their homes that they were expelled from and were stolen from them, then there's a just resolution, which involves compensation and an apology. For the first time, Israel taking responsibility for its ethnic cleansing campaign began in 1948. That's the solution that's on the table. It's in line with the global consensus. Every year, the UN General Assembly votes on measures calling for a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. For Palestinians, that's a major compromise because they'd be accepting as 22% of their historic homeland.

Even Iran has endorsed this measure. There was a resolution put out by the Organization for Islamic Cooperation a few years ago calling for peace along similar lines. Israel gets full normalization in the region in exchange for allowing a Palestinian state. Iran even endorsed this. Seymour Hersh recently revealed that Hassan Nasrallah, the late leader of Hezbollah,

he told him that if this is what the Palestinians wanted, if this is what the Arab League offered, and if Israel accepted this, Hezbollah would not stand in the way. So the only obstacle to the globally accepted solution that's on the table, which is a two-state solution, Palestinians get a fragment of their historic homeland, a big compromise for them. The only obstacle is Israel and the U.S. And no president, whether it's Trump or Biden or Obama or George W. Bush, has ever broken from that refusal to even accept a Palestinian compromise. That's the fundamental obstacle here. Here's the former head of the Saudi Arabian intelligence services referring

to Trump's proposal as a fantasy. Cut number two. It is a fantasy to think that ethnic cleansing in the 21st century can be condoned by a world community that stays on its behind and does not respond to that. The problem in Palestine is not the Palestinians. It is the Israeli occupation. And this has been clear and understood by everybody. Hence, you have United Nations resolutions calling for the quid pro quo of land for peace from 1967 until now. The Arab Peace Initiative, of course, is based on that, and offered Israel not only diplomatic relation,

but all of the things that Israel wanted, from trade, from normalization, etc., in return for the establishment of a Palestinian state with its capital in East Jerusalem. All of these things were American policy until this latest wording that Mr. Trump has chosen to use in claiming that he wants to do better things when actually it is going to turn things into more conflict and more bloodshed. Conflict and more bloodshed. Is it your understanding that what this Saudi prince just said is a fair representation

of the Arab view of what Trump announced the other day? I'd only make one correction to what this Saudi official said. He said that up until Trump's statement, it was U.S. policy to have a two-state solution along the lines of the Arab Peace Initiative. It certainly was U.S. rhetoric to claim that they support the creation of a Palestinian state, but it was never policy.

U.S. policy was to undermine it. And that's why functionally Trump's vision of ethnic cleansing for Gaza, it's a crude expression of what already is the existing U.S. policy. Recall that in the early stages of the genocide, Blinken went to Jordan and Egypt, tried to convince them to take Palestinian refugees. And the U.S. has always been on board with Israel's agenda of taking over the parts of the West Bank that it wants, which make a Palestinian state impossible. So while always paying lip service to the idea of a two-state solution, which Trump isn't doing anymore, the U.S. has been actively helping Israel undermine the prospect of that two-state solution. So U.S. policy has been much different from its rhetoric. But he's correct to say that at least

rhetorically, the U.S. government paid lip service to a two-state solution, which Trump now is finally abandoning because he's just more crude about things. Is the IDF still in Gaza or have they left pursuant to the second phase of the ceasefire agreement, an agreement that none of us has read yet because Netanyahu is keeping it under wraps, literally. It's my understanding that they're still maintaining control over the Philadelphia corridor, which they're supposed to withdraw from. What's changed is they stopped the regular daily terror of bombings. That's been the main difference of this ceasefire deal so far. But whether Netanyahu will hold to that, I am highly skeptical. He needs this war to continue his political career. And again, he didn't finish the job that he ultimately wants, which is to expel as many Palestinians as possible

and destroy what's left of their society. Scott Ritter has a bit of a different view, obviously condemns what Trump suggested, but he claims it's a slap in the face to Netanyahu, that it's basically saying to Trump, you didn't do what you said you were going to do. We'll take over. Does that resonate with you? No, it doesn't. I think this is music to Netanyahu's ears because again, look, Trump is not going to actually do anything to see this plan effectuated. He's not going to send troops to Gaza. He's just said that in his truth social post. So he's just basically talking this nonsense to distract from the actual plan that's going on right now which is to let netanyahu

proceed with doing whatever he wants which is destroying gaza taking over west bank land so people can be distracted by this you know ridiculous vision that trump has while ignoring the reality that's unfolding before our eyes and that's what i think trump has done here he's just given netanyahu to cover to continue carrying out the current policy. Because for Netanyahu to feel threatened, there'd have to be some pressure put on him by Trump. Is Trump going to put any pressure on Netanyahu? Is he going to withhold all this military support? No, Trump is announcing more military support as we speak.

They're even bragging that they sent weapons or bombs to Israel that Biden had held off. Pete Hegseth talked about that, that we've given you new capabilities to do things you couldn't even do before. So in the absence of any actual pressure, coercion being put on Israel by its key sponsor, then no, there's no change at all and no pressure on Netanyahu. Here's somebody that agrees with you 100%. Netanyahu himself, he's beaming. Cut number four. But the actual idea of allowing first Gazans who want to leave to leave. I mean, what's wrong with that?

They can leave, they can then come back, they can relocate and come back, but you have to rebuild Gaza. If you want to rebuild Gaza, you can't have... This is the first good idea that I've heard. It's a remarkable idea. And I think it should be really pursued, examined, pursued, and done, because I think it will create a different future for everyone. It's illegal, it's impractical. How are they going to get two million people voluntarily to

leave? You couldn't do it by killing them. Exactly. Yeah. And what Netanyahu is showing there is that he's tactful. He's aware of how Western audiences think. And he understands that he can't go and outright endorse permanent ethnic cleansing. So he says there, yeah, Palestinians can leave and then come back. Sure.

But he's lying because he knows that once Palestinians leave, he'll never let them come back. That's been his plan all along. And there's an obvious response to this. If you really care about Palestinians having a place to live while their homes are being rebuilt, and he's right that people are going to have to go somewhere because Gaza has been largely destroyed and it won't be sustainable for a lot of people to remain in Gaza as it's being rebuilt. Why not send them to their own land? If they can't go back to their homes in what is now Israel, from which they were expelled, recall the majority of

Palestinians in Gaza are refugees or the descendants of refugees who all come from homes inside what is now Israel. So if Israel won't let them go back there, then why not let them go to the occupied West Bank, which is Palestinian territory? The whole world recognizes this as Palestinian territory and as the future of Palestinian state. So why not let them go to the occupied territories of the West Bank and live there? Because Nenyao does not want to do anything that establishes and maintains a Palestinian connection to their own land. He wants to expel them for good. So let's talk about how they'd come back. It's just a lie.

He wants to get them out permanently. And again, who is in the West Bank right now who has no right to be there? It's all these illegal Jewish settlers who come from places like Brooklyn to live on Palestinian land. Why are they there? What right do they have to be there? So if Palestinians and Gaza need a place to go and Israel won't let them come back to their original homes and decide what is now Israel, kick out all the illegal Jewish settlers in the U.S. is sending. Cut number five.

You have a long memory. We have a long memory. And may our relationship continue to endure. We're going to continue to grow our defense industrial base. We've supplied munitions that were previously not supplied. They're useful in eradicating radical enemies. And we are committed to continuing to do so. So I hope you've noticed here at the Defense Department under President Trump, we are laser focused on reviving the warrior ethos, on rebuilding America's military and reestablishing deterrence.

Just something you, Prime Minister, have done in your neighborhood in impressive, aggressive, and important ways. A bizarre, despicable way to try and put a fig leaf over genocide to the face of a mass murderer and war criminal. I'm sorry, Pete. That is just a disgrace that he would make statements like that. Praising someone who's right now wanted by the International Criminal Court for

his crimes in Gaza. You know, what's funny about that clip to me is he's sitting next to Pete Hegseth, the former Fox News host, now Defense Secretary, is sitting next to Charles Brown, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Right. And I'm wondering what Brown is thinking as he's listening to all this.

I mean, he's got to be concerned with, among other things, the threat to his own troops, his own people in the Middle East, the threat that is posed to them by the agenda of Donald Trump, Pete Hegseth, and Benjamin Netanyahu. We've already seen over the last year of genocide the threat that U.S. troops have come under as a result of U.S. refusal to put any pressure on Israel to end the mass murder campaign in Gaza. And as they're now talking about restoring deterrence, Netanyahu and Hegseth are,

I wonder if Brown is worrying about what impact this will have on the forces that he commands in the Middle East who are, you know, who are going to be endangered by the policies of people. If the original plan, as articulated by President Trump on Tuesday, were to happen, it could not happen without force, which presumably means American force, since the IDF has failed. Could you imagine American troops, Marines, showing up fully armed and chasing the Palestinians out of Gaza? It's almost inconceivable that that would happen without monumental resistance and extraordinary bloodshed. Yes, and I don't think Trump ever intends to do that, and that's why I don't take his plan seriously. What I think he's instead doing is putting out this grandiose, ridiculous vision for the future to distract us from what is really going on, which is that he's supporting Netanyahu and his agenda to destroy Gaza and make it unlovable. And getting everyone to worry about U.S. troops going to Gaza one day is a good way to distract from what is actually going on. And he even said in his latest post on True Social

that after the fighting is over, that's when the U.S. would take over and no U.S. troops would actually be deployed. So what he's envisioning is Israel does the job, as he's been talking about for a while, and Israel finishes the job of leveling Gaza. And once there's no more resistance, once everyone is cleared out,

that's when the U.S. would come in. It's just it's completely ridiculous. What it is, is simply it's a cover for Israel to continue carrying out doing exactly what it's doing right now, which is making. Where's the left in America, all the people that were chanting genocide, Joe? I don't know what the acronym would be or what what the two or three word phrase would be, but why aren't they accusing Trump of the same thing? I mean, hidden beneath Hegseth's smile was Trump's promise to deliver a billion dollars, a billion dollars worth of military equipment over the next several months. An extraordinary amount. What are they going to do with that? Kill innocents. Well, listen, I think anyone who cares about the region, who cares about Palestinian rights, is outraged at what Trump said, and there will be continued protests against him. The one difference is that he's not actively right now fueling an ongoing

mass murder campaign. The bombs have stopped, and people felt relieved that Joe Biden was no longer in office because he was the one providing the bombs and the support as the campaign was going on. Trump did help broker a ceasefire. So there was some relief there that at least, unlike Joe Biden, Trump was not fueling this active murder campaign as it was ongoing. So now, of course, Trump's remarks are going to alarm people. And I do think we'll continue to see protests. But again, it is worth stressing that while Trump's rhetoric is ridiculous and his agenda is ridiculous,

it still doesn't compare to what Biden did, who was actively supporting Israel at every single turn, blocking a ceasefire, rearming Israel as the genocide in its active phase was ongoing. Here's more from Hegseth with reporters questioning him. I believe this is also in the presence of Netanyahu, but you got to listen to the very end of what he says. Listen, I used to work with him for 10 years. It sounds like he's still at Fox. But anyway, cut number six. Are you working on options for the president right now

to involve U.S. troops in Gaza? The president is involved in very complex and high-level negotiations of great consequence to both the United States and the state of Israel. And we look forward to working with our allies, our counterparts, both diplomatically and militarily, to look at all options. But we certainly would not get ahead of the president or provide any details about what we may or may not

doing. Dude, that's just bad military. Dude, that's just bad military. Okay, that's his style. They won't rule out military force. What would Marines do if they were told to invade civilians and kill civilians as the idf has been doing or kidnap civilians force them from their lands great question again i just don't see trump going through with it i think he has the awareness to realize that that would be a disaster uh for everybody involved so i think this is all just bluffing. And the real danger is what is unfolding before our eyes, which is that Trump is giving Netanyahu carte blanche to continue his plan to depopulate Gaza and make it unlivable. It serves Netanyahu's agenda to have everybody talking about Trump's vision and Trump possibly sending US troops, while Trump is doing nothing

to pressure Netanyahu to ease the siege of Gaza, to grant Palestinians their self-determination rights, which has long been denied them. We'll see. It's a very difficult time because you have a Palestinian movement that's divided. You have Hamas and Gaza, which apparently doesn't even want to lead Gaza anymore. They don't want that burden anymore because they realize that they've, you know, they made a choice with October 7th that would make it impossible for them to govern Gaza. So I don't think they even want to lead Gaza. And meanwhile, you have a Palestinian authority in the West Bank, which is helping Israel crack down on protesters and basically acting as the collaborationist enforcer for Israel. So you have a divided Palestinian leadership. You have a destroyed Gaza.

You have settlers in the occupied West Bank given the green light to continue terrorizing the Palestinians there. It's a very bleak time. Aaron, thank you very much for your time. I know you're traveling, and I appreciate you accommodating my schedule. No matter what we talk about, it's always a pleasure to chat with you. All the best. I hope we can see you again next week. Thank you, Judge. Of course. Coming up at one o'clock this afternoon, Colonel Douglas McGregor. At two o'clock, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson. At four o'clock, midnight in Moscow, Pepe Escobar. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.