Judging Freedom - Aaron Maté - (The GrayZone) : Nuland and the Leaked German Plot.

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

Aaron Maté - (The GrayZone) : Nuland and the Leaked German Plot.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Wednesday, March 13th, 2024. My good friend Aaron Matei joins us now. Aaron, thank you for coming back on the show. It's always a pleasure. What is your take on the departure of Victoria Nuland from the State Department, a person who worked her way up to very high-ranking positions, was a classic neocon, manipulated at least one coup that we know of, manipulated killings. All of a sudden, she's gone. do you think she was pushed or she jumped i'm going to present uh the evidence for both possibilities because i think good please here's the evidence that actually she walked away on her own and that she wasn't pushed that evidence is that she's really embarrassed the administration

she served in before and has not suffered any consequences. So just rewind to 10 years ago, January 2014, this audio comes out where she's plotting with the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Jeffrey Piet, on who should be the next leader of Ukraine. And they're basically picking between the various leaders of the Maidan revolution that was going on at the time. It was hugely embarrassing for the Obama administration, especially because on that call is when Nuland famously says, F the EU, basically telling the Obama administration's European partners to go away with an expletive.

And yet she doesn't get fired after that. So that speaks to her being incredibly resilient. And in fact, not only after that is she not fired, after the Maidan coup, she becomes, along with Joe Biden, the point person for Ukraine. And there's a very long story there, which I go into in my forthcoming book on this topic, where Nuland basically played a key role in undermining the Minsk Accords, which was the peace deal that was reached to end the Donbass War that began as a result of the Maidan coup that she helped engineer. So that's the evidence against her being pushed out, is that she's embarrassed the people in power before, but yet she stayed around and was brought back on her Bible. The evidence, of course, that she was pushed out is that she recently has been

saying really reckless things. She went to Kiev and said that Putin's in for some nice surprises on the battlefield this year. When you're a diplomat saying that, it's just so incredibly obnoxious. And that's always been the knock on hers, that she just got way too loud of a mouth. She speaks way out of turn. If you're a diplomat, you're not supposed to be talking about inflicting battlefield losses, especially when we're talking about Russia, who we're not technically at war with, though of course everybody knows we are. So maybe this time when she goes to Kiev and says, Putin's in for some nice surprises, and then she follows it up a few weeks later when

she goes back to the US, she says, Putin's in for some nasty surprises. Maybe for the Biden administration, that was enough for them to say, all right, it's time to go. Do you think she was involved in any way with the German general's plot to bypass Chancellor Scholz and send Taurus missiles to Ukraine? I wouldn't put it past her. This is somebody who worked very closely with Philip Breedlove, who was then a military commander at NATO, to undermine the Minsk Accords. There's a really overlooked incident that happened at the Munich Security Conference in February 2015, right as the Minsk Accords are being signed. There's this effort, you know, the leaders of France and Germany, they've gone to Moscow to meet with Vladimir Putin to beg him to sign the

Minsk Accords, and he does. And meanwhile, at the Security Conference, as all this is happening, this wasn't really reported in the U.S., but it got picked up in the German media. Nuland held a meeting with a bunch of U.S. officials because this is the conference that recently happens. It happens every year. Everybody, like the NATO foreign policy elite, goes there. So at this conference, Nuland's there with John McCain, Mike Pompeo, who's then a congressmember, all these top U.S. officials

and lawmakers. And Nuland basically there admits that they're going to undermine the Minsk Accords. She doesn't say that explicitly, but if you read between the lines, they're talking about what a terrible thing this is that Germany and France are dealing with Putin. John McCain compares this to Neville Chamberlain. So that was when the plan was set in motion with Newland leading the way to undermine the Minsk Accords. So would it surprise me at all if fast forward 10 years later,

nine years later, Newland is now working with her counterparts in NATO to undermine Schultz and send these weapons that he says he doesn't want to send that would not surprise me at all. She has been accused.

I'm going to ask you if it's credible or not of having snipers kill people in a public square in Kiev during the Maidan revolution in 2014. Is, is that a credible allegation? Well, what we do know is that there was a massacre in Maidan Square. It's called the Maidan Massacre. It was critical in triggering the coup that ousted Yanukovych. And it was perpetrated not by the government of Yanukovych, but by elements of the far right, which were behind the coup. University of Ottawa named Ivan Kachanovsky, who's Ukrainian-Canadian, who's done exhaustive studies of this. And his findings were that the location of the shooters who attacked the Maidan were all controlled by these elements that were behind the Maidan coup, these right-sector

Svoboda people like that. And this massacre was falsely blamed on the government. And it was a critical incident in driving Yanukovych from power. And we know from testimony from Svoboda members that one Svoboda member testified that he was told that basically for Western governments to get behind a coup, there needed to be a higher death count inside the Maidan. Because at that point, some people had been killed. There had been some violence. The police had cracked down on protesters. But there hadn't been this cataclysmic event yet. So the incentive certainly was there for a false flag to happen. And there's also, speaking of leaked phone calls, there's the Newland leaked phone call, which is infamous. There's another leaked phone call

in which a minister from Estonia speaks to a counterpart from the EU. And they say that, based on their findings, that they believe the massacre was carried out by the far right, contrary to what their government were saying publicly, which were blaming this on the Yanukovych government. As for Newland's involvement, I have no idea in that whatsoever. But we do know that the US was very involved in orchestrating this coup and in working with the coup plotters. So certainly whether or not there was direct involvement, it doesn't really matter. The point is this was a false flag massacre, falsely blamed on the Anikovich government, really carried out by the far right. And it helped trigger the coup that has put us in the mess we're

in right now. What role did she play in the 2022 Boris Johnson trip to coerce President Yeltsin into rejecting the peace treaty that had been negotiated. Vladimir Putin famously holding up his finger, showing an inch apart that was a thick and serious and detailed document had been negotiated in Turkey. Did she play a role in undermining that? I hope to still be alive when we find out the answer to that question. Wait a minute. You're a terrific researcher. You'll know the answer by Friday. That's the kind of thing where I think we're not going to find out until decades later. That's the kind of secret that gets kept. And then recently, just as an example, 20 years

ago, there was a coup in Haiti. Jean-Bertrand Aristide, Haiti's first popularly elected leader, his support base was the poor majority of Haiti. He was overthrown first in a coup in the early 1990s. He came back to power. He was overthrown again. He accused the Bush administration of overthrowing him. Bush administration denied this, called it a conspiracy theory. 20 years later, there was recently declassified cables.

The Grey Zone reported this, showing that the U.S. embassy was involved in the coup plot. And France's ambassador actually recently admitted that, yeah, they orchestrated this coup because RSD was standing up to the U.S. and France and demanding reparations for French colonialism. So that's the kind of thing we always get the admission long after the damage has been done. And I suspect that will be the case here with the U.S. role in undermining the Russia-Ukraine peace deal of April 22. All right. She left a sinking ship. There's no question about that. Is there panic amongst the elites, heads of state and foreign ministers in Europe as we speak? Oh, absolutely. I mean, look at Macron. Just look at his statements alone. He's talking about sending troops. He's making all sorts of bellicose threats. Other leaders, including the leader of Slovakia, are denouncing him because they're saying, like, what are you doing? In response, Putin has started talking about how Russia is prepared to use nuclear weapons if it faces such an attack. So, of course, these people are panicking. And what else can they do? I mean, the panic also is exemplified in that leaked phone call where these German military leaders are talking about circumventing their own elected leader, Schultz, because he won't

send the missiles that will allow them to strike Russia. So of course there's panic. And the panic is because not only is there a shortage of ammunition for Ukraine, there's a shortage of people because they're running out of people to sacrifice. And that's a direct result of the policies that all these NATO leaders have signed on to, to use Ukrainians as cannon fodder to weaken Russia. And now the problem is they're running out of Ukrainians to sacrifice. I'm going to play a little clip for you. You've probably seen this, but I want your thoughts on it from President Biden and the State of the Union, I invite your attention to two things.

The Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson, who's always voted against aid to Ukraine when he was just a simple Congressman Johnson, and who has the power to prevent the Senate's $61 billion giveaway from even coming to the floor, he can't stand up and applaud along with the vice president because the Republicans couldn't possibly applaud a Democrat and expect to keep his job. But tell me if you see him nodding. The other thing I invite to your attention is a bizarre phrase out of the mouth of the president. Bizarre. The transcript says there are no American soldiers who are in Ukraine. But if you hear him carefully, he seems to say there are no American soldiers of war who are in Ukraine. Chris cut number five.

Ukraine can stop Putin if we stand with Ukraine and provide the weapons that needs to defend itself. That is all. That is all Ukraine is asking. They're not asking for American soldiers. In fact, there are no American soldiers in the war in Ukraine, and I'm determined to keep it that way. What do you think he was talking about?

Do you think that there are soldiers there out of uniform? And he's trying to make a distinction that because they're out of uniform, he can lie and say they're not soldiers of war. I've never heard that phrase in this context. I think that's exactly what it is, because if you listen to if you read the transcript of that German call where these four German Air Force officers are talking about the Western weapons that are being used inside Ukraine, They talk about American forces in civilian clothing on the ground in Ukraine. So I think that's actually what Biden is referring to there. Do the following governments acknowledge that their human beings are there, whether they're soldiers or intel, German, French, Polish, British. Well, we know the Americans don't acknowledge it because he just denied it. Yeah, no, they don't. But we do know that those German officers did. They revealed it.

They said that there are British, American, and French forces on the ground operating their weapon systems. And they draw a distinction between themselves and Germany saying that we can't do that. So actually, that tells me that Germany actually doesn't have people there because Schultz has explicitly ruled that out. And these German officers were talking about how to get around that. But yes, in terms of what's confirmed by that phone call alone, it's Britain, France, and the U.S.

And polls. And the polls, yes, of course. Right, right, right. Why is Putin warning, as recently as as yesterday that the war could quickly get out of control? I think he said something like, and he didn't name them, but he said any two NATO nations can cause the war to quickly get out of control. What do you think he meant, Aaron? I think he's responding to comments like from Macron, who's talking about sending French forces. And he's also recognizing that his adversaries are desperate because they've

invested so much money and so much of their own political capital in this disastrous proxy war, and they're losing. I mean, the Wall Street Journal a few months ago put it that right now, Russia has the advantage on the political, military, and economic fronts. I'm not sure what front there is left to dominate. So that's an admission in the heart of the establishment that Russia is winning this war, as was easily predicted by those of us who could see this war not from the proxy war fever but just from reality. So I think they're just desperate. Putin knows that they're desperate. They don't want to be humiliated, but they have no other option because there's no more Ukrainians left to sacrifice.

And so I think Putin maybe is responding to the desperation he senses, and he's trying to warn people against the temptation of trying to escalate, trying to double down on their failure rather than de-escalate. Now, I was in the Vatican last week, as you know, but I cannot take credit for the following because this was taped before I was there. And even when I was with the person who said this, he didn't speak to me and I didn't speak to him, although we're in the same room. I'm going to have to read the translation because it's in Italian. Chris, cut number one. I think it's the stronger position to look at the situation and think about the people and have the courage to raise the white flag

and negotiate. And of course, Zelensky wanted to bite the Pope's head off for saying that. Yeah, you know, Zelensky's government recently arrested a priest who dared call the Azov Battalion Nazi. And this priest was given a multi-year prison term. So that's the state right now of democracy in Ukraine,

arresting someone for acknowledging that Azov Battalion is a Nazi. By that standard, actually, the entire U.S. Congress would have to be arrested because a few years ago, they passed a measure banning assistance to the neo-Nazi Azov battalion. So now, of course, we're supposed to forget about that, that we're now arming people who we previously banned assistance to, but that law actually is still on the books. But what the Pope is saying there, he's just expressing common sense. You know, Mark Milley, the chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said this over a year ago.

It's time to negotiate. Right. He urged Ukraine to actually consolidate its gains on the battlefield, which it had achieved back then in the fall of 2022, taking two key provinces back from Russia to consolidate that at the negotiating table. But he was that fell on deaf ears. Biden told him to shut up. Right. Everyone kept fighting. And now we're in the disaster we're in. And as I recall,

after he did say that and you and Max and I and others lauded him for it, they made him start saying the opposite of that as if he had never said it. That's correct. He only had a year to go as chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but he was still there a puppet. Al Jazeera is reporting that anti-Putin paramilitary units are attacking towns and villages in Russia. Could this be happening without assistance from the West, like American intelligence and British intelligence? Well, it's hard to believe it's not getting U.S. help, especially after that major article in the New York Times a few weeks ago in which the CIA brags about how they're training Ukrainians who are involved in attacks on Russia and Russian forces and coordinating with them in the process. So what are the odds that that's not the case this time?

Not very high. And in this case, these paramilitaries, what you don't hear in the West is that these so-called Russian exile groups, they're Nazi. They're Nazi along with the Azov Battalion. You don't hear that anymore in U.S. media. It was okay to say that before Russia invaded in February 2022. Back then, you were allowed some freedom to acknowledge this. Now, of course, everybody's just a freedom fighter in the same way that Al-Qaeda was once a freedom fighter when they were on the side of the U.S., whether it's in Afghanistan or in Syria. I want to transition to Israel and Gaza. Is there a rupture between Netanyahu and Biden,

or is this just Joe trying to mollify Muslim voters in Michigan? I think it's the latter. Is there any change in Biden's policy? The other day he said that a red line for him would be if Israel invades Rafah. But then he said, I won't cut off aid to Israel if it does invade Rafah. So what does a red line mean then? It means nothing. So everything is performative.

They've tried this multiple times. That's what everything is driven by. This peer stunt they're doing, building a peer to deliver aid to Gaza, supposedly, rather than force Israel to open up the land crossings where it's blocking thousands of trucks. Even though they know this is the only way to prevent a famine,

they openly acknowledge that. You can read that in the Washington Post, that the Biden administration knows that unless the land crossings are open, that there will be famine. But rather than force Israel to do that, they're going to resort to doing these PR stunts like the pier, which, by the way, apparently was an idea of Netanyahu himself. So even what's deemed to be a solution going around Israel is, in fact, in Israel's interest. Well, if we really wanted to aid the Gazans, we would call up Bibi and say, stop. No more spare parts, no more weapons, no more bombs. And by the way, we're sending 4,000 trucks of food, water, and medicine, and you better let them the hell in. But that's not happening. Here's President Biden on MSNBC over the weekend. This is ridiculous. I don't want to be in the business of making him look ridiculous. He's ridiculous enough.

But hear him. He says, there is a red line. There is no red line. What is your red line with Prime Minister Netanyahu? Do you have a red line? For instance, would invasion of Rafah, which you have urged him not to do, would that be a red line? It is a red line, but I'm never going to leave Israel. The defense of Israel is still critical. So there's no red line. I'm going to cut off all weapons so they don't have the Iron Dome to protect them. They don't have. But there's red lines that if he crosses, he cannot have 30,000 more Palestinians dead. He cannot justify that statement morally.

Can he have 25,000 more Palestinians dead? I was at a dinner party the other night. I was the only person at the dinner party calling this slaughter, a war crime, ethnic cleansing, and everybody else, there were six people at the table were saying, you're getting your numbers from Gaza. The numbers are not believable. Where did you get the 30,000 from? Where did you get the 20, I said 26, 26,000 women and children? Why do you believe these numbers? I was saying to myself, where were Aaron and Max when I need them?

Or, or judge or Lloyd Austin, the Pentagon secretary who told Congress recently that the number of women and children killed is over 25,000. That was his number. Right. recently that the number of women and children killed is over 25,000. That was his number. So the idea that all this is an invention of Hamas, no one takes that seriously except for Joe Biden, who has cast doubt on these numbers, but his own State Department trusts those numbers. Lloyd Austin trusts those numbers, and there's no reason why we shouldn't either. And that statement there from Biden that Israel can't kill another 30,000 Palestinians. So does that mean they're killing another 29,999? Palestinians is okay. It's so obscene and it speaks to these people, Palestinian lives just do not have equal value.

Right. Tell me about the political disaster of inviting Benny Gantz to the White House. Didn't they know ahead of time what he was going to say? Don't they know his attitude about this is the same as Bibi? He's just a nicer, warmer person than Netanyahu is? It's a great question. I think what they thought here is because Netanyahu is such an embarrassment and he's so he's not not going to, he doesn't care about embarrassing the US. Even when Biden does everything that Netanyahu wants, Netanyahu can't help but embarrass him. So for example, when Biden pays lip service to the two-state solution, Netanyahu comes out and

says, there will be no two-state solution. I won't let it happen. He can't even let Biden lie and pretend that there will be a two-state solution. And so I think the hope here is with Benny Gantz that they'd get somebody more compliant, somebody who doesn't speak out of turn as much. But of course, the problem is with Israel, wherever you are in the spectrum, if you're in the government, you support mass murder.

So Benny Gantz expressed similar sentiments to Netanyahu that, yeah, we're going to go into Rafah, we're going to finish the job. Because on this issue, the Israeli spectrum is completely in unison. But unless the Israelis decide to attack Hezbollah and take a shellacking as they once did, this isn't going to stop. And if Donald Trump is elected president, it might even be worse. If Trump is elected president, it could be worse.

Who knows with him? He's a real wild card, but that's reasonable to expect given his record in office. The one thing that might be different is maybe Democrats could be better right now. Because they'll want to oppose him just because he's a Republican in the White House. Exactly. I mean, they're making the case right now that they're much better out of office than in office. Nicely put.. Aaron Matei, my dear friend, always a pleasure. Thank you very much for joining us. Tell me about the new book,

by the way, or are you not ready to talk about it? It's coming out this year. It's about the Ukraine proxy war and specifically the U.S. role in it. And it tells a story that I don't think has been properly told yet. It's not a complete exhaustive account of the Ukraine war. That's just too much to cover there. And some of that is just beyond my knowledge. But what I am focused on is the very negative U.S. role in all this, in preventing peace when it could have avoided all this catastrophe and prolonging the bloodshed, just because they were so driven to weaken Russia, their geopolitical adversary. And I go through all the disastrous consequences of that. Surely, if I go to the index and look for it, Newland comma Victoria, there's many numbers after that. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Thank you, my dear friend. We'll see you again next week. All the best. Thank you, Eastern. Later on, Professor John Mearsheimer and Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson. And on Friday, everybody's favorite. We didn't do it last week. We're back in the saddle, the roundtable with the intelligence community boys. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom Thanks for watching!