Judging Freedom - Aaron Maté: Zelenskyy's Hostility to Peace

Episode Date: March 4, 2025

Aaron Maté: Zelenskyy's Hostility to PeaceSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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to Gaza, and then received a phone call from Steve Witkoff saying back off. And then earlier today announced he's cutting off electricity. What does he think he's accomplishing here? Just before I answer, if I can make one personal remark, I just came back from Hofstra University in Long Island, where I was hosted by a very legendary professor, Martin Milkonian, on the faculty there since 1966. He's such a fan of judging freedom that after my long lecture,

they made sure to announce that I'll be appearing on Judge Freedom today. So I wanted to thank him. So nice to hear. I have a soft spot for Hofstra. The dean of the law school is a longtime friend of mine. She hired me to teach constitutional law, and then COVID came along and I was banished to the hills of New Jersey and there was no way we were going to make it work. So I love the place. I do not know this professor, but professor, thank you for watching. Thank you for hosting Aaron. He's a great man. And tell your students to watch. Well, so to your question, what does Netanyahu think he's doing? He's trying to pursue his agenda of ethnically cleansing Gaza, making it unlivable. I believe Israel claimed that their blockade did not apply to water.

So yes, we're going to block medical supplies. We're going to block critical aid. We're going to block food. But we're going to exempt water. But as you said, they're also cutting the power or what's left of the power. And when you cut power, you're effectively blocking water because power fuels water desalinization, for example, which is very critical there in that region. So they're effectively cutting off water as well. And of course, as you pointed out repeatedly on your show with your guests, this is a war crime, intentionally denying aid to a civilian population. And Israel has such a

green light from the U.S., from Biden, and now with Trump, that they feel entitled to announce this to the world, that they're cutting off aid. They're committing a massive war crime against a besieged civilian population after leaving their territory in ruins. So what is his goal? It's just to remind the Palestinians that he is their ruler, he wants them to leave, and he's going to make their life as miserable as possible. I regard you and Max as our go-to people on Israel

because of the friends that you both have there and the contacts that you have. Ritter, of course, knows a lot about Israel. He claims that Witkoff is twisting Netanyahu's arm and dialing him back. I don't really see any evidence of that. Do you? I don't either. The day before Netanyahu announced his new siege, Marco Rubio rushed an extra $4 billion worth of military support to Israel, bypassing Congress. And I took Netanyahu's announcement of cutting off aid as his recognition that he has a green light to do whatever he wants. This was going to be my next question. Rubio committed the same act of perjury, I'll call it what it is, that Tony

Blinken did when a Secretary of State, Blinken, did what Secretary Rubio did yesterday. Swear under oath in writing to the Congress that this is an emergency and therefore Congress needs to be bypassed, an unconstitutional, unlawful act. What is the emergency that Israel needs $4 billion worth of supplies, which he knows that the Congress would authorize anyway? The only emergency is the control that people like the Adelsons and AIPAC have over U.S. politics. Trump has bragged about basically being bought off by the Adelsons and AIPAC have over U.S. politics. Trump has bragged about basically being bought off by the Adelsons,

giving them recognition of Israel's theft at the Golan Heights and moving the embassy to Jerusalem. That's the actual emergency here, an emergency of democracy where you have oligarchs controlling our politics and Israel also serving hegemonic ends and so therefore having a pass to do whatever it wants. In fairness to Scott Ritter and to Steve Witkoff know as scott's pointed out and this is accurate uh wickhoff did force netanyahu to accept the first ceasefire yeah scott is correct on that and wickhoff did

he did what trump boasted about this happened before trump was even in the white house yeah and we don't know yet or at least i don't know yet what Wyckoff is going to do. He's going to the region, I believe today or sometime this week. So we'll see. I hope to be wrong that actually they're going to continue to be using their leverage to stop Israel, to restrain it. But the record is not very optimistic, especially in light of all the statements that Trump has made about endorsing the ethnic cleansing of Gaza, but I would love to be proven wrong. What Netanyahu wants is to prevent the next phase of the ceasefire, which we're not supposed to technically be in right now. But he wants to avoid that because that phase involves Israel actually militarily pulling out of Gaza. He doesn't want that because he wants to be able

to continue occupying and destroying Gaza, in part because there's still Palestinians there, including Hamas, who he has failed to destroy. So educate me on the resistance. The Arab League, or whoever is meeting today, is prepared to announce some modernization of Gaza, not the Gaza-Trump Riviera, but some other sort of modernization which will include the sovereignty and natural human rights of the Palestinian people. There is also, according to McGregor and Pepe Escobar, a very serious resistance to Israel emanating from the military in Egypt and in Turkey, both of which are under pressure from their populations to do something to rein in Netanyahu. Do you agree with these sort of two polar poles of resistance? Well, I just don't know.

Even if they did everything absolutely right, everything strategically sound and wise, I just don't think it really matters. What matters is the decisive U.S. support that Israel has to carry out mass murder. We just saw it in action. What Israel's done over the last year plus, committing one of the worst crimes in human history, they could only do

that because the U.S. had their back. And of course, the Arab states could have stood up more and done more, but ultimately, even if they had ejected more fulsomely, it still wouldn't matter. And so these Arab leaders will want to put forward a plan because they want to counter Trump's plan of ethnic cleansing. But as long as Israel maintains its self-professed right to put Gaza under siege, deny Palestinians the right to self-determination, then we're going to just have this crisis continue in different phases. And as I've talked about a lot, and it's important, I think, to point out, the Arab states plus Iran have all endorsed a plan that is a major Palestinian compromise in which Palestinians would accept just 22 percent of their homeland if Israel withdraws from the West Bank and Gaza and allows for a Palestinian state there. It's only the U.S. and Israel that have stood in the way.

Israel just murdered the leader of Hamas in the West Bank. Haaretz reported it about 10 minutes before we started this show. Before we jump over to Zelensky and Trump and the incident in the Oval Office and the fallout, I don't know if you watch the Oscars. I don't because I go to bed early. But there was a very, very moving event at the Oscars involving a documentary that won Best Documentary. This clip is only about a minute and 10 seconds long. I'd like your thoughts on it. involving a documentary that won Best Documentary. This clip is only about a minute and 10 seconds long.

I'd like your thoughts on it. Chris? The Oscar goes to No Other Land. Thank you to the Academy for the Award. It's such a big honor for the four of us, and everybody who supported us for this documentary. About two months ago, I became a father, and my hope to my daughter that she will not have to live the same life I'm living now, always fearing... always...

always fearing settlers' violence, home demolitions and forest-filled displacements that my community, Masaf Riata, is living and facing every day under the Israeli occupation. No other land reflects the harsh reality that we have been enduring for decades and still resist, as we call on the world to take serious actions to stop the injustice and to stop the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people. We made this film, Palestinians and Israelis, because together our voices are stronger. We see each other, the atrocious destruction of Gaza and its people which must end,

the Israeli hostages brutally taken in the crime of October 7th which must be freed. When I look at Basel, I see my brother, but we are unequal. We live in a regime where I am free under civilian law and Basel is under military laws that destroy his life and he cannot control. There is a different path, a political solution without ethnic supremacy, with national rights for both of our people. And I have to say, as I am here, the foreign policy in this country is helping to block this path. And, you know, I...

Why? Can't you see that we are intertwined? That my people can be truly safe if Basel's people are truly free and safe? There is another way. It's not too late for life, for the living. There is no other way. Thank you. Very touching. Very moving. I don't know if you know these people. I never heard of them.

I never heard of the film. Chris and Sonia brought it to my attention, what they said on Sunday night. Very, very moving. Who knows where it will go? Any thoughts? Well, Judge, one of the reasons why people haven't heard of this film, at least on a large scale, is because prior to the Oscars,

you couldn't even find distribution. Not a single distributor in the U.S. would take it on to put it out to the Oscars. You couldn't even find distribution. Not a single film distributor in the US would take it on to put it out to the public. So it was relatively niche. I haven't seen it. I really wanted to, but just because of work commitments, I haven't been able to see a film in, I don't know, two years. But once I'm finished my book, this will be at the top of my list. And it's not even about Gaza. It's about the West Bank. It's about Israel's apartheid in the West Bank, which makes Palestinian life very, very difficult, having to deal with your home being stolen, vandalized, attacked,

your water being deprived, so it goes to these lush Jewish settlements next door. This is a powerful film from what I understand exposing that. So very moving to see it recognized at this level, especially in Hollywood, which is notoriously really hostile to voices that recognize Palestinian humanity. And the reaction to this Oscar film from our corporate media, which is very hostile to Palestinian humanity, was really interesting. For example, one headline in Politico said, controversial documentary film wins Oscar.

Why is it controversial? You know why? It's because it recognizes Palestinians as equal human beings. And in our society, unfortunately, that makes you controversial and prevents your Academy Award winning film from even finding a distributor. And I'm sure that will change now that it's won the Oscar. Right, right, right. Switching gears, why is President Zelensky hostile to a ceasefire? He's hostile to a ceasefire because he staked his political career on bowing to the Ukrainian

ultra-nationalists who don't want to recognize any agreement that takes into account the rights of ethnic Russian Ukrainians and the Donbass and Russia's concerns. They want to be fully in the pocket of the West. And Zelensky has bowed to them. So in the process, he triggered that awful confrontation at the White House. The dominant media narrative is that Trump and J. vance uh ambushed zelensky and were rude to him and certainly i don't think uh they were completely scot-free i mean jd vance you know admonishing zelensky to thank president trump when zelensky been thankful plenty of times and also should zelensky really be thankful to the u.s when the u.s has used his country

for its goal of bleeding russia and let ukraine be destroyed in the U.S. when the U.S. has used his country for its goal of bleeding Russia and let Ukraine be destroyed in the process. So I thought that was inappropriate by Vance. But overall, it was Zelensky that caused this meltdown. For 40 minutes, they held court. It was very cordial. Trump even said, we're going to continue to arm Ukraine. He made that commitment during his conversation with Zelensky. Zelensky called Putin a killer, a terrorist. Trump didn't react to that. What finally caused this meltdown was when J.D. Vance said that the key to prosperity is engaging in diplomacy. And that's when Zelensky, after a nice 40-minute polite exchange, decided to challenge him and say, what kind of diplomacy are you talking about? And then, as I showed in my article, Zelensky lied. He lied. He claimed that, you know, he was trying to argue to Vance and Trump that you can't trust

Putin, you can't engage in diplomacy with him. And his example of that was the fact that Putin and Zelensky signed an agreement in Paris in December 2019. And then he said we were supposed to exchange prisoners, but Putin didn't do that. Well, later on that month, there are photographs of Zelensky attending a welcome home ceremony for Ukrainian prisoners freed under that agreement with Putin. And the following year, in April 2020, there was another round of prisoner exchanges. So that was a lie from Zelensky. And then he omitted, of course, his long record of ignoring the Minsk Accords, which was the pact that Ukraine reached before

he became president, but which he signed on to when he became president, to end the war on the Donbass. And it was Zelensky's government that refused to implement the Minsk Accords. And the tragedy here is that people think Trump sold Zelensky out by kicking him out of the White House and pausing weapons. It's Washington that has sold Zelensky out because he was elected on a peace mandate back in 2019. And rather than support him, our Uniparty sided with Ukraine's far-right neo-Nazis. And that's why we're in the mess we're in today. Do you think that Zelensky regrets listening to Boris Johnson after the Istanbul negotiations produced a lengthy, detailed, and amicable agreement? Depends how cynical he is. If he's so cynical that he's willing to destroy his country for his own personal benefit. And I have no doubt that, you know, he will be rewarded for his

services for letting his country be destroyed. So if he does, you know, if he's going to take a fancy exile somewhere and live out the rest of his life in luxury, which I think is his most likely path, then I don't think he'll regret it. But if he had a conscience, of course he'd regret walking away from a peace deal that his own team signed and following the orders from Joe Biden and Boris Johnson, because it's been an absolute disaster. And now whatever peace deal Ukraine is left with now, it will be far worse than what they could have gotten in Istanbul when Zelenskyy walked away. Didn't you think that Prime Minister Starmer looked ridiculous

on Sunday, saying we're going to put boots on the ground and planes in the air, we're going to make a loan and we're going to have it paid back by seizing interest on assets, Russian assets that are frozen. I mean, where does he throw? Oh, and we're going to order missiles to be built at our plants and Belfast missiles that wouldn't be ready until 2030. I mean, where is he going with all this? It's really pathetic. And there's something, the British elite have some unique hatred of Russia, which I don't fully understand. People more familiar with UK politics would be able to explain it better than I. But yeah, they're obsessed with destroying Russia.

They have been for a long time. And they're trying to save face by making all these pledges that they're not going to fulfill. They're not going to send troops. The only way they will is if they get what they're not going to get, which is a U.S., what they're calling now a backstop, which is a fancy way of basically the U.S. guaranteeing the security of British and French troops in Ukraine, which is what they're desperate for, because they know if they ever get into a fight with Russia inside Ukraine, they have no chance unless they have the backup from the U.S. But Trump is clearly not interested in that.

He doesn't want to offer this so-called backstop. He wants to disengage from all this. And part of this, just from the point of view of Britain, is blowback from their efforts to undermine him by taking part in Russiagate. Christopher Steele, the former British spy, he comes from the British spy services and British intelligence officials in the summer of 2016. And we still don't know the full story. Maybe now under the Trump administration part two, we'll find out more. They were involved in passing on claims and information to the Obama administration that was a part of the effort of framing Trump as a Russian agent. So they're getting their blowback now as well, as is Ukraine,

because as I believe I've talked to you about before, there's someone in Zelensky's advisory team who openly took part in the campaign to stop Trump in 2016, who put out information about Paul Manafort that likely wasn't true, but that led to Manafort's resignation. And they said at the time that we're helping Hillary Clinton because we don't want Trump to win, because we think Trump would be bad for Ukraine, namely the Ukraine's fight against Eastern Ukrainian rebels backed by Russia. Well, now they're getting Trump back in office for a second time. I don't think he's forgotten that. And they're facing the consequences.

Last subject matter, the chancellor-in-waiting of Germany, Frederick Mertz, is pro-war. What is he going to do once he gets in? Do you have any idea? What can he do? Germany's taking part in self-sabotage. They stood by, as Joe Biden promised, to destroy the Nord Stream pipeline pipeline if he wanted to, and then made good on his pledge, according to all the available, or at least all the most convincing evidence as unearthed by Cy Hersh and other sources. And so what leverage do they have now? They have been severely weakened by this.

And for some reason, their political elites from the incoming chancellor to the Green Party, they all seem insistent on doubling down on this proxy war strategy, which has led to their deindustrialization and their severe weakening. So I don't understand what, as Trump said, Zelensky, what cards do you have? And I don't see Germany being in any different position than everybody else in that proxy war coalition. Aaron, thank you very much for joining us, my dear friend. Give my regards to your professor friend. And I know you're going to email me something.

I look forward to it. All the best to you. We'll see you again next week. Sounds good. Thank you. And coming up after this long day of eight shows, our eighth, always worth waiting for at four o'clock today, Professor John Mearsheimer, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.