Judging Freedom - Alastair Crooke: Gen. Kellogg Undermines Trump

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Alastair Crooke: Gen. Kellogg Undermines TrumpSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

you Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, April 28th, 2025. Alistair Crook will be here with us in just a moment on these proposals by General Kellogg. Are they actually undermining President Trump? But first this. While the markets are giving us whiplash, have you seen the price of gold? It's soaring. In the past 12 months,

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And my dear friend, always a pleasure. Thank you for accommodating my schedule. Before we get to your interesting piece on General Kellogg's proposals for resolving the special military operation in Ukraine and President Trump's likely response, a few questions about Israel. Why were there no significant Israeli officials at the Pope's funeral? What kind of a message are they trying to send? One of disapproval. They've disapproved of the Pope. They think he took too much of a Palestinian view. I know that you and I would have said that he didn't take any particular position on the Palestinian issue,

but nonetheless, you know, the Israelis won't deal with anyone that doesn't forcefully take the Israeli position on these things. And the Vatican was ambivalent, shall we say. And so, they're happy. It drew everybody from Vladimir Zelensky to Donald Trump to Joe Biden. They even shook hands and sat near each other. But the Israelis could not show any respect for the Pope. Didn't they actually remove even a perfunctory expression of condolence from the Israeli Vatican Embassy website? Yeah, but I mean, this is typical Israel. They're actually also examining whether it's possible to to accuse UNRWA and the United Nations agencies of prosecute them through the courts because of their actions in support of the Palestinians. I mean, we're talking, I mean, you know, the Israeli government now has moved into a very

aggressive stance on this. And that's reflected somewhat too, unfortunately, both in Europe and in America, when any statements in favor of Palestinians can lead, depending how their phrase, but it can lead to punishment, even to jail. So, I mean, the crackdown is intense. And so this was, I think, you know, intended to signal to the Vatican,

they will not, Israel will not allow any interference in the Palestinian issue. They are to remain silent on the issue. And I think that was quite clearly the message sent. In the past week, the opposition leader in the Knesset, Yair Lapid, has said, don't be surprised, and he said this in a regretful way, if you soon see Jews killing Jews,

Haaretz, a daily publication in Israel, the English version of which you and I consult every day, said that Netanyahu wants to set up a dictatorship. I gather the divisions in Israeli society, the domestic political divisions, are pretty severe today. Very severe, very severe. There is the ongoing fight over the head of Shin Bet, the security service in Israel, who's made accusations, harsh accusations against the prime minister of lying, of trying to persuade the head of Shin Bet to make his loyalty to the prime minister rather than to law or constitution, not that there is a constitution, but the basic laws.

A very vicious fight is going on. The Haredim are at the moment besieging, those are the Orthodox Jews, are besieging the IDF recruitment centers because they object to being inculcating to the military forces, they refuse to serve. And then you have many of the reservists who are shocked and angered and close to mutiny because Israel is just announced they're going to have to do another period of reserve, the fourth I think, period of reserve duty in Gaza or in Lebanon or wherever it's required. So huge and the constitutional crisis went on. 60, I think I said, but 60% of the Israelis believed that civil war is coming.

And as you put it, Lapid said, Jews killing Jews. I mean, it's quite close. And this is why, you know, I've said to you for some time, I mean, without, you know, I've said to you for some time, I mean, without the United States and Trump's support, Israel will come apart. I mean, it's so divided and so in fact, factions, there's no consensus about the direction ahead, no consensus about the wars that they've been fighting, a sense of defeat. It is a very serious situation that they're in. It could come apart anytime.

They're overextended everywhere from Syria to Lebanon to Gaza to the West Bank, everywhere. So I did it serious. And Netanyahu's staff members who were under investigation for being bribed by Qatar in return for the release of top secret information. So there's several crimes there. There's espionage and bribery, just allegations at this point, apparently are turning on each other in their interrogations? They save themselves, yes. They are turning on each other and the allegations are taken. Look, we don't know the details, we're not privy to the details,

but Israelis generally are taking them very seriously. And the suggestion that is running in Israel, rightly or wrongly, true or not true, is that actually, Qatar was paying off, if you like, its officials, Israeli officials, in order to get a better deal for Hamas in the negotiations, the hostage negotiation. That's true, wasn't a very successful ploy, but it's very difficult to say, you know,

we still don't know very, and no one has announced it. Exactly what were the Qataris paying for? That they were paying widely for things, it seems to be more or less uncontested now, in Israel at least. But what were they paying for? What did they want out of this? This is still a question, open question. Moving to American woes. Yes. Is there, well, how serious is the effort to dislodge the Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, and who or what do you think might be behind it?

The effort to dislodge him, there are, I think, two aspects to it. One aspect is the man himself, Pete Hegseth. Is he a suitable candidate for the defense secretary? Let's leave that aside, because that's about personalities and character and things like that. It's an important question. But actually, the question inside is the depth of division

within the Defense Department, particularly between those. I mean, that he was, this attack on him and those who were ousted recently, there were several of them ousted, including Dan Colvo. These were the people who had persuaded Hexeth, if you like, to side with those in Trump's team in favor of an Iranian negotiation to try and find a diplomatic accommodation with Iran. That's what it was about. It was about a deeper struggle within the Defense Party from

those who believe, if you like, these are the people that believe in the end of history and American-led rules order and believe that they are trying to save America from Trump. These are, in other words, there's a large contingency in the bureaucracy and in the uniform because that are never Trumpers. Sometimes they say it out loud, sometimes they keep it to themselves. But they are pursuing a policy against Mr. Trump in many respects. And it's not only that, it's a cultural thing where the culture has been of, you know, American primacy has been so inculcated into people that it's very difficult to move part of it. And also the Defense Department is a huge organization. It's the biggest anthill

in the world, effectively. And, you know, all of these people's career paths and their interests and everything, you know, you change and you put a civilian in charge of parts, a key part of the defense ministry, and lots of career paths suddenly are all over the place and are disrupted and people get angry and resented. So these are, this is a major problem. This is what is the issue that is really at the heart of why there's a problem in Russia, on Ukraine now. Trump, I mean, Witkoff has just been in Moscow, and I think Moscow says very politely and clearly to Witkoff, you know, to take this further, we've taken this a little way.

You know we're willing to negotiate. You know we're willing to meet with Ukraine. But you know, we've got to see that Mr. Trump can consolidate his position and his leadership. We have to say that. And I think they've said that to him fairly bluntly. Until we get that, all we can do is to move towards a rapprochement that is positional, not as a rapprochement in terms of a formal deal. Yes, we can go on talking, we should go on talking, we can try and improve the proposal that you brought, which has some good elements in it, it's much better than the one that was originally proposed by Kellogg, which was basically seeking not only an armistice, but

the subjection, I mean, it was a complete one for, it was like the Versailles Treaty. It was a punishment. Right. Proposal. So it has improved. But this is the problem. And this was the problem again. How did all this thing come out in the Defense Department? It came out basically because of Iran policy, because they did not want the negotiations. And at the same time, you had the commander of CENTCOM, General Kurila, who's been in Israel, who has been with setting up an attack on Iran with the Israelis, which the Israelis want and like. And Kurila has about a few months, as I understand it. That's what I believe. He's got a few months as I understand it. That's what I believe.

He's got a few months left in offices as a commander of CENTCOM, which has always had a certain degree of latitude in the terms of its control. And he wants his war, and he wants his war in Iran, and Israel wants him to have his war. So this is the problem, Israeli, that what you talk about in the Pentagon is contaminating both the prospects at the moment for taking forward to an early agreement some new position on Ukraine with Russia or to getting towards, if you like, full normalization with Russia. And it's also putting a huge cloud. Netanyahu yesterday told his ministers that no, on Iran there must be a complete dismantling

of their enrichment capabilities capabilities of their infrastructure. The infrastructure must be completely removed on the lines that happened in Libya, where it was, which was different. But the Libya model. And he said also then they have to address the ballistic missile, the missile question that has to be addressed, too. And so this is this this is, there are a lot of people in the Pentagon who agree with him and who think that it's not possible to have a deal before.

I have to say, I have to say how surprised I was since I know Pete Hegseth fairly well from having worked with him for 10 years. I was pleasantly surprised, but truly surprised, at reading from the Signal transcripts. I know he shouldn't have been on that app or whatever, that he was arguing for restraint. He was. So your argument that the people that hate Trump and the neocons that want war are likely behind the efforts to humiliate him out of office is a very rational argument. They're behind the leaks. They are clearly behind the leaks and the leaks are intended not only to take him out of the leadership.

And you know, I think it's an unfortunate trend that's gone on. I'm, you know, I'm not American and I'm far away, but you know, since Obama's time, he's had defense secretaries that are military generals. And so they got rather used to this. And you know what the military like, you know, who's this civilian telling us how to run a military? I mean, we're military people. We know how to, you know, why would this happen? And so that I mean, Trump did that in his first term with Mattis, for example. But Obama certainly loaded himself up with ex-generals in this way. And so, you know, there is a whole culture there,

which is, you know, about hegemony and about America, you know, the end of, you know, the end of history. It's all over, and now we run the world, and this is how we've been running it for all these years. And now Trump has come in, and he wants to do different things and we disagree. And this is going to, in my view, I mean, this is just my personal view, but I see it reflected in Russia too.

I mean, in the sense the Russians, because they look at both all of these things that are happening and they say, when are the midterms? Next year? We have to take that into account because who knows what could happen in this period in the economy or in many of these issues. I mean, maybe we'll see the sort of Biden forces steing in again in November next year, after November next year. So, I mean, you know, they don't not going to put themselves into a strategically

dangerous position simply to help Trump in this way. And this is why, you know, one of the strange thing I was just going to say it, actually, we've now gotten to a position where history is repeating itself, because Trump really is negotiating president to president. He's not relying on any parts of his two wings to his team. I mean, he is doing this directly through Witkoff, his personal friend, who's going and talking to Putin. When did we last see that? JFK with Khrushchev. That was the last time a president has negotiated and kept his, if you like, his officials out of the question, and he negotiated directly with Khrushchev until ultimately Jeff K was executed. But that's really where we are now.

Trump is trying to do these things and he's indicated almost that he'd like to do that with Iran. He said, well, you know, maybe I would like to have a meeting with the Supreme Leader. I mean, this is the extent of the internal blockage, I think. And so, you know, Putin is watching this and is saying, you know, some of the things with cost that you brought with you, the changes you brought with you, the if you like de jure recognition of Crimea, the de facto recognition of Russian control, we can work with these. There are some things that we can take along. They're much better than the Kellogg proposals.

I still think that Trump may surprise everyone and show up in Moscow on May 9th. ninth. Last week, he publicly chided President Putin because civilians were killed in an attack on a nearby military facility in Kiev, and he wrote on his own website, Vladimir stop. And then he basically said, it's dreadful that he's killing civilians. At the same time he said this, Hegs says people are bombing civilians in Yemen. Now he's been in office by the end of this week, 100 days. Is it now fair to say Ukraine is his war? Gaza is his war? is his war? I think, you know, what I've been saying about Putin, let's leave aside that because, you know, I hear that actually the target in Kiev that he's complaining about was an underground headquarters full of, if you like, defense officials, some of them may have been foreign, that were killed, no doubt civilians were killed in the process, but this is war and this is what their target was probably. But, and the

Russians just shrugged this, I mean they, you know, he came at the end of his truth social tweet that he made about, you know, you know, come, Vladimir, you must stop now, this is terrible. They're used to that. They know he has to do this because of his domestic constituency. They don't deal with that. But what they would like, agency in this in this negotiation. That if he says, you know, okay, that's the end of it, there will be a CISFA, I am going to take action with the Europeans who are undermining him and with Zelensky and Kiev who are undermining Trump's efforts. When they see real sort of signs of consolidation of leadership,

I think things will move along quite quickly. But until then, as I say, I think we'll have just a rapprochement. There will be words saying it was a useful visit by Witkoff and there's going to be another one in a little time and they'll move forward, you know, increment by increment, but there won't be the actual deal, the sort of the final cutting of the ribbon, if you like, until they see a clear indication. We still don't know. After supposing after a ceasefire, after an agreement, does the United States tend to rearm Ukraine? Does it intend to go on training it? Does it intend to go on giving intelligence? I don't think any of these issues have been resolved and I don't see

that Putin and I'm you know I'm standing back from this and saying you know even if I were Putin you know and the experience that Russia has had during this period I would need to have these things nailed down very clearly because everything can change in America in in the next year and a half and then where I be? I could be in a much worse situation militarily and politically than now. Even now it's quite possible, and this is in the Russian calculation, I mean even now it is quite possible that we'll see Trump trim his sails with the Europeans and that he will sort of leave all these things rather ambiguous and that it will worsen the position, worsen the, if you like, the situation from the perspective of Moscow. So, you know, that is in their calculation too, that he may start, you know, drifting to accept. And we know what the Europeans

want. The Europeans want this to fail because they are desperate condition and they know that a big crisis is coming in Europe. They understand that perfectly well. A huge political earthquake is coming economic. Their only hope to ride this out is to cry war and to try and print more money and hope that, you know, by, if you like, creating debt and plying it into a defense industry, they can somehow get through this period. Plus, of course, the usual narrative control, double down on narrative control. This is their only way of getting through and surviving is the European Union. So they're determined, determined. Just to end our conversation where we began it about the Israelis,

if they're going to depose the Netanyahu government because he doesn't have a majority, they might want to do it this week because Ben Gavir of all people is here in New York where the crowds have been shouting at him and calling him horrible things in Hebrew. This is in Wall Street. This is New York City. Well, the war is in New York, not only in Israel. Yes. It's come to you. But I just say one last thing, because it

was quite important what was said about Netanyahu who wants to get rid of it because of the talks. I mean, and this is public at the at Witkoff's negotiations with the Iranians. These were the technical negotiations. The Americans proposed that there can be no actual enrichment process in Iran. There can be a nuclear, if you like, energy structure, but this is only going to come by the West giving Iran, if you like, authorized enriched uranium. They're going to sit on a tap and they can turn it on and they can turn it off and they're going to give in run and otherwise it will not be allowed to enrich anything. And I don't know what the Iranian reaction will be

but I can guess. I mean, the Israelis and maybe the Americans just couldn't care less about the peaceful uses of that enriched uranium, including in high-end hospitals, where it's the only way to address certain ailments. It's something that's universal in the United States today. Yeah, they're looking for regime change then. Yes. Not a solution. Yes. Alastair, thank you very much. We're all across the board. I deeply appreciate it. Thank you for your time. As always safe travels. We look forward to seeing you next week.

Thank you so much. Of course. Coming up later today live from Moscow our dear friend Ray McGovern at 10 o'clock at 11 30 Larry Johnson at one o'clock this afternoon. Kivork Al-Massian, the Israelis are bombing suburbs around Beirut and at three o'clock on all of this including his debate with Alan Dershowitz, Scott Ritter, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. for judging freedom. MUSIC