Judging Freedom - Alastair Crooke: Israel is in Moral Meltdown.

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Alastair Crooke: Israel is in Moral Meltdown.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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800-511-4620 or go to learjudgenap.com and tell them your friend, the judge sent you. I'll stare good day to you, my friend. Welcome to the show. Thank you for accommodating our schedule. Will Prime Minister Netanyahu eventually bow to US pressure to agree to a substantial, verifiable, non or invoilable ceasefire? I think I doubt it. unparifiable, non or invulnerable ceasefire? I think I doubt it. I don't think there's any intention of that.

We've seen what is clearly happening. We called it in a paper that we wrote on the Conflict Forum Substack, the moral meltdown in Israel. And I just want to underline, because people may not really sort of understand this, because they're not following it so closely, this is a real pivot point that is taking place, not just in Israel, but for the West as a whole. And what it is is essentially, I mean, let's not go get tangled up in the details. But essentially, Israel is completely divided. On the one hand, you have, if you like,

those who see themselves as European Jews that have come from Europe and are Europeanized. And on the other hand, you have the Messianic people of Ben-Gavir and the Prime Minister and the right, who are looking to Amalek, to, if you like, removing the Palestinians from Gaza altogether, either killing them by bombing them or either sending them somewhere else. Libya has been mentioned, but I don't know if that's going to work at all. But this is a moral divide now. And long ago, someone warned the West very clearly.

They said, what will happen is, in due course, under pressure, the West would turn on its own moral values and then start consuming itself like an ossoboros. And this is what's happening in Israel. It is now becoming violent. The police are attacking the demonstrators who are demonstrating for the release of hostages. So half of Israel is doing that. And you find editorials, you find other pieces in the Hebrew press, in the English language press, like Haaretz editorial,

that say we can't go on with this, just killing Palestinians, bombing tents, seeing children burnt alive. We can't do this. And what's happened? I mean, we are supposed to have, you remember that Hamas released the American dual citizen, Eden Alexander the other day, and it was understood from the American mediators,

Witkoff and his colleagues, that that would result in food and resources coming into Gaza. They're not coming into Gaza. They are still in a line outside of Gaza and there are people, the human rights UN human rights representative says there are children starving to death and Netanyahu had to admit this just the other day and he said listen look I have senators coming to me friendly people who have never been more friendly to Israel and they're saying look we will give you what you want you want weapons you will give you protection in the Security Council but listen we just cannot endure seeing children starved to death you've got to do something about

it well that still hasn't happened and where's Witkoff who played a very important part to begin with he went to Netanyahu on Shabbat and he said, listen, you had a deal, stick with it, do it. There's no sign of that today. And so we have to wait till the 25th when Netanyahu is saying that. And Netanyahu hopes to get through this period with a short ceasefire, agreed with Hamas, and then some introduction of limited resources, food and water going in. And the last few days, every day, it's been 70, 90, 100, 120 Palestinians killed at night in the bombing raids of this new incursion. But I want to move to the second fracture, which is opening up, which is just as important,

because it's in the United States and in Europe. In the United States, as you know, about 80% of Jews living in the United States are reform Jews. And many of them are finding the same moral dilemma than I've just described in Israel. They don't like. And when those senators spoke to Netanyahu in that way and said, listen, we just can't go on like this.

We can't see children burnt alive in tents. It's not acceptable. It's not acceptable in the US, and it's not acceptable to half of the Israeli population. This is the pivot, the crucial point, where, if you like, the West turns on its own moral values and starts to, if you like, destroy itself in this process. Same in Europe. There's videos going around about Mal being attacked strongly about Garson, others too across Europe.

This is the moral dilemma that is coming and we see it in other ways and this is facing Trump now very much which what to do and we hear very clearly I'm told that now there is this moral divide taking place within his team. On the one hand, Witkoff and Vance on one side, but Rubio totally at odds with Witkoff and trying to remove him from the process. Perhaps that's why Witkoff is not there. Why isn't there an American official down there at Gaza and saying, look, just open those gates. Open them.

Let the code in. Of course it would happen, but there's none. So we have to draw our conclusions from that, what that means. And then there's the third fracture. And this is very important fracture fracture too, I think, which is with Iran, because you probably see on ABC in the last day, Whitkoff has said the absolute red line for Trump is no enrichment, not ever, in Iran. That is the red line, and that's what we're seeking.

ever in Iran. That is the red line and that's what we're seeking. And I put on that, I wrote that actually what has happened is almost the entire Senate Republicans have written a letter to Trump saying one thing, that they will not accept an agreement which allows the infrastructure of enrichment to stay in Iran. And 177 of the House have been even more explicit, I think, in one of the parallel letters that has gone to Trump, which is saying exactly no enrichment at all, even though they know, they must know, Iran will never accept that. You recall I was in Iran about a week or 10 days ago

and talked to many people that they won't accept that. And then I contrasted what do you see in the Maryland polling that has just come out, it shows it's 70% of Americans as a whole want to deal with Iran. And that is true both of the majority in the Republican and the Democrats. And only something, I don't have the figures in front of me, but only something like 25% of Republicans are in favor of military action. So you have this divide to

the popular sentiment, of course, which will probably be ignored, but the popular sentiment wants a deal, doesn't want a war with Iran. I don't think the populace, I don't think the side of Vance and the others wants a war with Iran. And yet, all of the Senate Republicans have signed on to this letter, and 177 of the Republicans in the House have similarly signed on, saying, no enrichment. Now, I don't think that this means we're going to have a huge war with Iran, but that's a different issue. I can talk about that some other time, if you like, but I don't think that is probably going to happen. But we certainly, it certainly would give Donald Trump comfort if he were to attack Iran, knowing that half the

Senate, least half, and a little more than half the house are already behind him. I mean, he's essentially, and Whitcoff seems to be all over the place on this. At one point he said, well, of course, we're going to allow enrichment for domestic purposes. And then he said, well, they're gonna have to get their enriched uranium from some foreign source. Sure, which the US will cut off. Now making a demand on Iran knowing that they cannot keep it, what kind of a negotiation is that unless it's a trigger for war? Precisely. But my point, and which I discussed at length in Iran, is I do not believe that America can attack Iran, not in the way in which people think it. It will not be an easy war.

It will be the reverse. They have air defenses. They look, you know, the lesson from the Houthis is pretty clear. We've seen that. The lesson from the Pakistan, how they shot down all the French latest jets, the Rafael, with the Chinese missile.

These, I mean, this, I do not think, you know, it's one thing to say, look, we're going to turn Iran into a smoldering ruin, there will be nothing left. That's good rhetoric, but when it comes to it, and Trump has to sign on for this attack, and people say to him, but look, you know, what are we going to do? We don't have the ability actually to attack these deeply buried nuclear sites. They're not there. We can do what we did, if you like, a demonstrative, a performative attack with bombs, bomb an empty IRGC building or something like that, and then agree with Iran the suitable response and then declare victory and say Iran backed off and they conceded. That's possible. But an all-out attack, I think, I don't think actually the United States is in a position to do it and certainly if it can't do it with Yemen,

it's certainly not in a position to do it with Iran. Is this filtering through to Trump? Well, maybe it will do in near future because the Iranians will not agree to the terms he set out, just as we're seeing at the moment that Putin has not agreed and said he doesn't want actually Witkoff to come with a 22 point proposal for a ceasefire because he's not agreeing to a ceasefire. And we know why he's not agreeing to a ceasefire because Kellogg and the team around him want a ceasefire because that doesn't suggest an American defeat. In that way. Let's go back to Israel.

Last week, the press here in the US was replete with stories about the rift between Netanyahu and Trump. Trump was sick and tired of him. Netanyahu was manipulating Trump. Trump can't stand to be manipulated. Did Trump embarrass Netanyahu with his embrace of Arab authoritarians last week in the Middle East? And do you believe what Trump said last night that there is no rift between him and Netanyahu? Well, the first thing, you know, I don't think anyone has taken very much that the visit to the Gulf, but seriously, it was all bling, you know, not a new yacht but a new jet to Trump and I'm not sure even if the money will be forthcoming. The UAE, the United Arab Emirates has promised 1.4 trillion but its GDP is half a trillion.

as promised, 1.4 trillion. But its GDP is half a trillion. Where is it going to get 1.4 from? Exactly. Even if you spread it over 30 years, that would be something like 35, 40 percent of their entire budget. Even if you rated their entire sovereign wealth fund, that is only 1.7 trillion. So where is this coming from, this money? So, you know, in Saudi Arabia is in even dire straits, worse straits, because, you know, it can't afford to finish off Nome, this great project of a huge, you know, kilometer hotel. It's only about 200 meters complete so far. So I mean, the you know, it's a little bit, it's reality TV, but it won't make a difference, it won't even make a difference to Trump's ultimate aim, which is to rebalance his economy.

Because by rebalancing his economy, when he says he wants dollar hegemony to continue around the world, implies he wants a flow, or continuing continuing flow as they had in 2005. Volcker, who was president of the Federal Reserve said, you know, we survive on the incoming $2 billion of dollars coming in every day into our account. But where do you think the money is from the Gulf Street? It's already in America. It's not going to be new money coming into America. It's in an account in New York. And okay, it's going to be transferred from one account to another account possibly in the coming time. But that's something that we value. Do you think Trump understands what you said,

as stated differently, is he diluting the American public or is he diluting himself? I don't think he fully. I think there are people in his team like Bassett and I think Stephen Miran and I think Vogue who are very bright and are thinking about it. But even they are questioning the approach because I think threatening tariffs in order to restart what one of them described it is petrodollar

2.0. It's just not going to happen. It's not going to occur. So I think that is, I do think that, I mean, the United States has a huge strategic, if you like, structural imbalance. It has to address the debt issue. It has to address the budget issue. Whether that's possible or not, I really don't know, but I don't think, you know, a few days of bling in the Gulf States will have changed that one shot. As to your second question, shall I just do that? The second question you asked, do I believe that there's a real rift? Well, I do and I don't, you know, I don't think he probably likes Netanyahu very much. But when I look at things, what happened in those days

in the Gulf? Did you hear Gaza mentioned? Did you hear anything about a ceasefire mentioned? Did you hear any discussion of it? You heard a lot about Syria and the possibility of it joining the Abraham Accords, but nothing about Gaza, nothing at all. And so I wonder if some of this is reality TV.

But this is being done for that. What we did hear a lot about, and I think from your writings over the weekend, you're going to say Netanyahu was furious. We heard about this young man from New Jersey, Eden Alexander, the dual American Israeli citizen in the IDF captured on October 4th, freed by America's direct negotiation with Hamas.

Wasn't Netanyahu furious over that? And didn't he try and restrain the kid from going on international media? Yeah because the kid as you called him said he didn't want to meet Netanyahu. He wanted nothing to do with him. He refused to see him or talk to him by telephone even and so Netanyahu of course was snubbed and angry by that. But what about the sort of wider picture? Well, I just said to you what Netanyahu in a speech said, look, I've got all of these people from the US Senate coming over and saying,

you know, please, we will give you weapons. We will give you money. We will support you in the UN Security Council, but for God's sake We don't want to see in front of our faces children starving to death. We can't cope with that So the rift is in America and we're seeing it play out in his team That's what I'm saying, you know, I think there is a real rift I mean, I'm not in America, but you'd know better but I think there's a real rift. I mean, I'm not in America, but you'd know better, but I think there's a real rift between Marco Rubio and Witkoff. And that's reflected in what's happening in Russia,

and it's reflected in Putin's reluctance and indeed almost refusal to see Witkoff with his list of conditions for a ceasefire and saying no. I mean very tough language coming out of Russia and we'll hear very tough language coming out of Iran. This is a pivot point for both for Trump but for us Europeans and America because what's happened in Gaza is completely, as I said to begin with, we're turning on our own moral values. We're consuming ourselves by destroying our own moral values in the interest of keeping our hegemony. I wish Donald Trump would come to the same conclusion because he could stop it with a phone call. Is it fair to say that the solitary obstacle to the release of the hostages and the solitary obstacle to the

cessation of the murder of innocent Gazans is Benjamin Netanyahu? No, I think it is because that makes it too simple. It takes the context away and makes it all about one man. And I think this is a mistake. Yes, he's very much the center of this. He is the organizer of this. And by the way, he has every intention of staying in office until 2026. But it's not that. It is a segment of Israel,

believes, and you have to read that piece that you quoted in Moral Meltdown that was written and put on a substack, the Conflicts Forum subst stack, which is from the Israeli Hebrew press. And it says very clearly, I mean, we do not accept that it is right for Israel to be engaged in burning out tents and seeing children burnt alive in the tents. We can't accept this. And this is the moral dilemma and so half of Israel is with it but then you can read other people on the same piece saying I agree with it Tali we need to go and kill them all. I have no sympathy for the Palestinians we should kill them women everyone. And I have absolutely no feeling for them. So this is where it is going.

And what do we hear from Europe about what is occurring in Gaza? Nothing. Nothing at all. Nothing. Alstair, thank you very much. I must run. I appreciate everything you did to be on with us today,

more than you know. You're on fire today, God bless you. Very much appreciated my dear friend. All the best, safe travels where you're going this week and we'll see you next week. Thank you very much. Of course. Good luck. Thank you. Coming up later today at 10 this morning, Ray McGovern at 11.30 this morning, Larry Johnson, and at four o'clock this afternoon, Professor Jeffrey Sachs, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. You