Judging Freedom - AMB. Charles Freeman: Diplomacy Failing.

Episode Date: April 15, 2025

AMB. Charles Freeman: Diplomacy Failing.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

you Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, April 15, 2025. Ambassador Charles Freeman will be here with us in just a minute. Is diplomacy failing? Does diplomacy work? But first this. While the markets are giving us whiplash, have you seen the price of gold? It's soaring. In the past 12 months, gold has risen to more than $3,000 an ounce. I'm so glad I bought my gold. It's not too late for you to buy yours. The same experts that predicted gold at $3200 an ounce now predict gold at $4500 or more in the next year. What's driving the price higher?

Paper currencies. All around the world they are falling in value. Big money is in panic as falling currencies shrink the value of their paper wealth. That's why big banks and billionaires are buying gold in record amounts. As long as paper money keeps falling they'll keep buying and gold will keep rising. So do what I did. Call my friends at Lear Capital. You'll have a great conversation and they'll send you very helpful information. Learn how you can store gold in your IRA tax and penalty free or have it sent directly to your doorstep.

There's zero pressure to buy and you have a 100% risk free purchase guarantee. It's time to see if gold is right for you. Call 800-511-4620, 800-511-4620, or go to learjudgenap.com and tell them your friend the judge sent you. Ambassador Freeman, good morning, my friend, and welcome back to the show.

Thank you for all the time that you share with us. Do you perceive that there is a divide in the Trump foreign policy team between the neocons, Secretary Rubio, Secretary Hegseth, National Security Advisor Walsh, Sebastian Gorka on one side, and the American Firsters, Vice President Nance, Director Gabbard, Steve Witkoff on the other. Yeah, I think there is such a division. This administration is turning out to be remarkably incoherent with the incapacitation of the diplomatic bench that has been going on. Marco Rubio has been pretty much sidelined on the important issues of the day. Steve Whitcoff, the president's crony, fellow real estate billionaire from New York, has been up at

bat from the beginning of the administration. He began with the Middle East. He then took on Ukraine. He's now taken on Iran so far. His batting average is zero. But I don't think you can blame that on the neocon contingent. That is, this is all being done at the president's direction. And the president has an apparently imperfect understanding of the adversaries the opponents he's dealing with, whether in Israel or Gaza or in Ukraine or for that matter in Iran. And Mr. Witkowkos seems to be an intelligent man.

He learns fast, but he's a novice. And it's quite a gamble to put a novice out on the field or count everything on that novice. Yeah, the take on him is the way you've described him, a capable, competent, an experienced negotiator, but a novice on history and on diplomacy. He did claim just last night on Fox News that he's getting closer to a deal. He revealed that he spent five hours with President Putin. It's hard for me to believe they spent five hours together.

There must be Americans with him who are knowledgeable of Russian history and of Russian geopolitics and whose knowledge vastly surpasses his for President Putin to have spent five hours with him. But I'll let him explain it for himself. Chris, cut number 13. This peace deal is about these so-called five territories, but there's so much more to it. There's security protocols. There's no NATO, NATO, Article 5. I mean, it's just a lot of detail attached to it.

It's a complicated situation from, you know, rooted in, you know, some real problematic things happening between the two countries. And I think we might be on the verge of something that would be very, very important for the world at large. On top of that, I believe there's a possibility to reshape the Russian-United States relationship through some very compelling commercial opportunities that I think give real stability to the region too. Partnerships create stability. He's tipping his hand that there's more on the table than just Ukraine.

And Donald Trump's hint to that goal of a reset between the United States and Russia may very well be something that consumed the better part of their five hours. How do the Russians react when they're negotiating with neophytes? Well, I think the fact that Mr. Wittkopf, I didn't see anybody accompanying him to that meeting, by the way, except the Russian note taker. So it's not clear that he does have the staff backup that you would normally have.

Normally, much of that would be devoted to preparing briefing papers for the meeting and talking points for him. I don't have a sense that this administration has that degree of depth on any issue, including Russia. And I know that what we saw just now in the clip was a man who is clearly learning a lot from talking to Mr. Putin. And by the way, five hours probably has to be halved because there would have been interpretation.

So it's probably two and a half hours total. And he's clearly learning lots of things, geography, bit of history, something about security in Europe, but he didn't bring it all together in a coherent manner. And I think the president has had a grand vision of a reset with Russia in the context of a reset in European security architecture. And I didn't really hear Mr. Witkoff address that,

noting the issue of NATO enlargement and Ukraine neutrality. So this is a man who's feeling his way. We can only hope that he succeeds. Does diplomacy work when, from the American perspective, when Donald Trump is threatening violence and humiliation and impatience? I think generally even in ordinary life attempts to bully another party into submission, power game, power plays if you will, are counterproductive. So when Mr. Trump, So when Mr. Trump, President Trump says to Mr. Putin, you know, step on the gas, get moving, you know, I need you to capitulate on various issues.

I don't think that has much effect. Diplomacy depends on empathy, and that means not sympathizing with the other party's position, but understanding it sufficiently to be able to couch an argument in ways that appeal to the interests and the emotional investments of the other side. Mr. Witkoff may be very capable of that, I don't know, but it requires a level of knowledge of the other side that he's in the process of acquiring and which our president does not appear to possess himself. I noticed that Mr. Witkoff referred to the four oblasts as so-called regions.

I mean, they're not so-called regions. They are legal entities, and they are core, core to the Russian demands based on history and culture. He must understand that. Shopify helps you sell at every stage of your business. Like that, let's put it online and see what happens, Stage. And the site is live.

That we opened a store and need a fast checkout stage. Thanks. You're all set. That count it up and ship it around the globe stage. This one's going to Thailand. And that wait, did we just hit a million orders stage. Whatever your stage, businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash listen. Resolve to earn your degree in the new year in the Bay with WGU.

With courses available online 24 seven and monthly start dates, WGU offers maximum flexibility so you can focus on your future. Learn more at WGU.edu. Well, I think focusing on that is a mistake actually, because the principal issue was the threat that Russia felt from NATO enlargement, something that was pretty much concealed by the Western media. But the former Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg, came out and said it plainly. That was the issue. Mr Putin wanted to stop the presence of, prevent the presence of, possible forces on his border

with Ukraine and in Ukraine. And therefore he demanded neutrality for Ukraine and a renegotiation of European security architecture to ensure that the threat to Russia, the perceived threat, was reduced and that from Russia to the rest of Europe was commensurately reduced. And then there was a third issue, which you just referred to, which is the Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine, which when they were denied their linguistic and cultural rights after the 2014 coup in Kiev rebelled. That rebellion sucked in Russian support

and eventually kind of helped to catalyze the invasion of February, 2022. Here's an interesting statement made just the other day by the Russian director of foreign intelligence. So this is the Russian Tulsi Gabbard about the Russian concerns about security and the sovereignty of their territory. Chris, cut number 12. Before the State Security Committee of the Republic of Belarus and before the Foreign

Intelligence Service of Russia, we see difficult and specific tasks of ensuring the security of our countries by counteracting aggressive aspirations of unfriendly countries and their threats against our states. Quite a lot has already been done in this direction, but at the same time we see increased military activity by NATO states at our borders, and we feel and see that European countries, especially France, UK and Germany, have increased the level of escalation around the Ukrainian conflict. So we need to and must act preemptively. This has to be Putin's thinking.

Yes, well, it's typical Russian thinking and it's entirely understandable. We have two broad oceans protecting us from the rest of the world. They have two broad planes connecting them to the Pyrenees in Europe. There's no physical obstacle for an invader between France and Russia and indeed the French under Napoleon invaded Russia. So did the Germans on several occasions and most recently under Hitler. And on the eastern side, there's frozen tundra all the way to the Kamchatka Peninsula and the Mongols invaded Russia from there. To their south, they don't have a friendly Mexico, they have Turkey, which is a formidable great power

and an historic empire that was very aggressive. And to their north, they have the Scandinavians, perhaps as nice as the Canadians, and not much of a threat, but they've fought wars with the Finns and the Norwegians and the Swedes in the past. So this is a country that feels threatened on all sides, and it does not help in this context to start moving missiles and troops and tanks and artillery

toward the borders of Russia. If you if you spend any time in Moscow, as I recently did, you are exquisitely aware of the Muscovites grasp of history from Napoleon and Hitler and attempts to invade it from the West, even though it was a long time ago. It is wounds that are not yet fully healed. I want to play a clip for you of President Trump Sunday night, Palm Sunday, April 13th, on Air Force One. And I'm going to ask you, I'm going to tell you now what I'm going to ask you when they after we watch the clip.

Is this still Joe Biden's war? Chris Cutt, number one. Do you have a reaction to Russia's poem Sunday attack on the Ukraine? I think it was terrible and I was told they made a mistake, but I think it's a horrible thing. I think the whole war is a horrible thing. I think the war is, for that war to have started, is an abuse of power. You said they made a mistake. You were told they made a mistake.

Do you mean it was unintentional? They made a mistake. I believe it was... Look, you're going to ask them. This is Biden's war. This is not my war. I've been here for a very short period of time. This is a war that was under Biden. He gave him billions and billions of dollars. He should have never allowed if he had any brain, which he didn't have and doesn't have and now it's being proven, he wouldn't have allowed that war to start. I would have absolutely not. That war would never have taken place. But remember this, this is Biden's war. I'm just trying to get it stopped so that we can save a lot of lives. They happen to be Ukrainian and Russian lives.

But all I want to do is get it stopped. The statutes, there are several of them enacted by Congress appropriating funds for this war, make the appropriations subject to the discretion of the president. make the appropriations subject to the discretion of the president? President Trump has sent more than a billion dollars in military equipment since January 20th to Kiev. Can he effectively, diplomatically, credibly claim this is not his war anymore? No, I don't think he can. And I think this is a false distinction anyway. This is America's war. We led the Ukrainians down the Primrose path with the enticement

of NATO membership that was very likely never going to happen with the approval of other NATO members and was certainly not going to be tolerated by the Russian Federation. That was an American decision and it had the support of Congress and this war continues to be an American war. Mr. Trump is the president, he's inherited it. I think he's probably very sincere in wanting to end it, but so far he has not been able to do so, and the war continues under his direction. Mr. Witkoff, who by the way was referred to in the Oval Office by Secretary of State Rubio as Ambassador Witkoff. Now I call you ambassador because you were an ambassador, you were nominated by the President, confirmed by the Senate. As far as I know, Mr. Witkoff holds no official position, he just has the President's ear and has impressed the president with his negotiating skills,

negotiating real estate deals. Nevertheless, he also is the lead negotiator in the Middle East where he appears to be having no success at all. What is the value of negotiating with the Netanyahu regime? Let's see, they executed the chief, they murdered the chief Hamas negotiator, they murdered the chief Hezbollah negotiator. Maybe there's a reason Mr. Whitcoff doesn't show up in the Middle East that much, although I'm being a little snarky and sarcastic here, I can't imagine them harming a hare in its head. But what is the value of negotiating with the Netanyahu regime at this state?

Well, it has an unblemished record of breaking every agreement reached with it. Ceasefires, truces, diplomatic arrangements. The Camp David Accords with Egypt, it's occupying the Philadelphia corridor. It's annexing Gaza, it's violating international law, the Genocide Convention, the basic charter of the United Nations. And it shows nothing but contempt for those who negotiate

with it whether they are friendly to it or as Mr. Witkoff presumably is or not. So the value is not great and that is one reason that very few people now in the area have any interest in negotiating with Israel. is totally undercuts. They have totally undercut the Abraham Accords by their own actions in violation of them. A word on Mr. Witkov. You're quite correct. He is not an officer of the United States. He has not been appointed to a position in the constitutional manner. He has not been approved by the Senate as an empowered by the Senate as a representative of the United States. He is a crony of our president

who may or may not be able to help achieve something. But he has no constitutional authority to be doing what he is doing. And it's not clear what relationship he has with the government itself, other than with the president. Does he have a cooperative relationship with the staff at the State Department, the CIA, the National Intelligence Establishment generally,

or is he simply operating out of the Oval Office on the President's personal word? I mean does he even have a staff? I don't know. I don't know if Secretary Rubio's referenced them as ambassador, Wyckoff was sarcastic or complementary. I don't think this, what I'm going to play for you now is sarcastic or complimentary. I don't think this, what I'm going to play for you now, is sarcastic or complimentary. This is Secretary of State Hegseth threatening Iran with military action if they don't negotiate in a manner pleasing to the Americans, which means pleasing to the Israelis. How can this possibly be an effective negotiating technique? But before you respond, here's the clip. Chris, cut number nine. Chris He's dead serious that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. He's said that for 20 years.

He's been consistent. That is clear. But he's also dead serious that if we can't figure this out at the negotiating table, then there are other options to include my department to ensure that Iran never has a nuclear bomb. We hope we never get there. We really do, Maria. But what we're doing with the Houthis and what we're doing in the region, we've shown a capability to go far,

to go deep, and to go big. And again, we don't want to do that. But if we have to, we will to prevent the nuclear bomb in Iran's hands. First, the Houthis are still shooting down American drones and missiles. So I don't know what he means by far deep and big. And secondly, hey, Iran, you better negotiate

the way you want or my department will enter the fray. What kind of diplomacy is that? Well, it's actually not that unusual in diplomacy. There was a famous statement that the best ambassador was a man of war, meaning a ship armed with cannon. It is not unusual to threaten the youth, of course, as an alternative to a diplomatic process. But the main, the way in which this is being done is frankly absurd. Maybe the president is determined Iran will or Mr. Netanyahu who is guiding the president

in this manner does not want to have Iran get a nuclear weapon. Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon. There was an agreement called the JCPOA, done with Iran several administrations ago, which established precisely the sort of inspection regime and controls and agreements with Iran that would prevent it from getting a nuclear weapon.

And guess who tore that up? President Trump in his first tour, and in a term, in office. So all this is basically about subjugating Iran to the will of Israel in the end, and the nuclear weapons issue is, yes, a serious concern, but it's not the center of this. That's not the main purpose. The main purpose is eliminating any conceivable military challenge to Israel in the West Asian region. How do you think Hegseth would have responded if Maria Bartiromo had said, hey Pete, I get it that Iran shouldn't have a nuclear weapon.

How is it that Israel has one? Where did they get it? Well, it's a very implausible hypothetical question, Judge. I mean, I can remember being approached after I retired by a very eminent expert on nuclear matters to work precisely on this issue of the alleged Iranian nuclear program. And I said to him, well, how are we going to deal with the Israeli nuclear weapon,

which is the sole justification Iran has for building a bomb? And he said, well, we can't deal with that. No, no, we can't. We can't touch that. And at that point, I said, well, then count me out. I'm not going to get into a fruitless discussion where we're basically ignoring the elephant in the room. No point. Good point, Ambassador. Ambassador, thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Ambassador, Ambassador, thank you very much. Thank you for your time.

A great conversation in my view about how diplomacy works. Deeply appreciate it. And early happy Easter to you and we'll look forward to seeing you next week. Thank you and happy Easter to you. Thank you. And coming up later today, I'm not sure where he is.

I think Beijing at 11 o'clock this morning, Pepe Escobar at two this afternoon. He was off last week and we missed him. Colonel Douglas McGregor at three this afternoon, Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski and at four this afternoon, making splashes and headlines around the world. Professor Jeffrey Sachs, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. MUSIC