Judging Freedom - AMB Charles Freeman: How Precarious are NATO and Israel?

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

AMB Charles Freeman: How Precarious are NATO and Israel?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, July 29, 2024. Ambassador Charles Freeman will be with us in just a moment on just how precarious is the relationship between Israel and Hezbollah and the EU and Russia. But first this. You all know that I am a paid spokesperson for Lear Capital, but I'm also a customer, a very satisfied customer. About a year ago, I bought gold and it's now increased in value 23%. So $100 invested in gold a year ago is now worth $123. If you have $100 in the bank, it still shows $100, but $100 in the bank is now worth 24% less. Inflation has reduced all of your savings, all of your buying power and mine by 24%.

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Tell them the judge sent you. Ambassador Freeman, a pleasure, my dear friendcom. Tell them the judge sent you. Ambassador Freeman, a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you for your time. Good to be here. Druze young men playing soccer in the Golan Heights. Israel claims that Hezbollah was trying to kill Syrians. Hezbollah said they had nothing to do with it. Who killed these young men? Well, I think we don't know. There's a terrible tendency by our press to act as scribes for the Israeli government or our own. There are people in Israel who've been looking to pick a fight with Hezbollah and extend the war and have been quite vocal on that subject. There is considerable forensic evidence that this was not the Falak-1 rocket that the Israeli authorities claim it was, but it may very

well have been a stray Iron Dome missile or something of that sort. Hezbollah has no history of attacking the Golan Heights, which it does not regard as part of Israel. It has restricted its attacks to what it does see as part of Israel. So there are a lot of questions here, and not just Hezbollah's denial. But, of course, there will be no investigation by independent objective authorities. And I think the Israelis will stick to their claim. And will they use this claim as a pretext for war?

Well, they may very well do that. If they do, I think they will bring a terrible result upon themselves because Hezbollah, which does not want a war with Israel, another reason that I don't believe it necessarily did this attack in the Golan Heights, is very heavily armed. It can blanket Israel with rocket fire and artillery fire. And Israel has a history of being defeated by Hezbollah. They're talking about a ground invasion of Lebanon. The last time he did that, it didn't work out too well.

Chris, can you put up the map of the Golan Heights? Now, only in the mind of Benjamin Netanyahu and his colleagues and Donald Trump is the Golan Heights Israel. I said Donald Trump because he purported to sanction Israeli efforts to dominate the Golan Heights when he was president, but he can't do that under international law. This is not Israel, and the people that live there are not Israelis, and they're not Jewish. Well, there are some Jewish settlers mingled in with the Druze, yes, but it's occupied territory, occupied Syrian territory,

which Israel took from Syria in 1967. Israel and Syria negotiated very seriously about their border. Syria was prepared to agree to a border that touched the Sea of Galilee. Israeli negotiators refused that. So basically the negotiations failed because of a one and a half meter distance between the Syrian claim and the Israeli claim. Well, the Israelis are notorious in negotiation, you know this personally, for making demands on issues that they've already conceded. Prime Minister Netanyahu seems to be doing that now. In fact, we keep hearing off the record and not for attribution that some of his negotiators won't even make the demands that he has ordered them to make because they know it'll

have a negative effect on the entire negotiation because it's a point they've already conceded. But the reason for this lengthy introduction to what's supposed to be a short question is, does Netanyahu want a negotiated settlement or does he just want war because he believes that God the Father gave this land to Israel and and now is the time to take it. He's not a religious person, but he is a nationalist. His whole life has been dedicated to the removal of Palestinians from Palestine and the settlement by Israeli Jews or Jews from abroad who become Israelis. This isn't a war on Hamas, as he claims. This is a war of extermination. His objective is very obvious. You can see this in Gaza. He moves Palestinians from one so-called safe haven, which he then bombs, to another safe haven. And the objective is not to save lives. The objective is to wear out Palestinians physically

and psychologically to the point where they leave or failing that, succumb to starvation. In his talk to Congress, which was a masterful barrage of lies and false claims, he claimed that there was no starvation in Gaza because Israel was allowing a lot of aid in. Well, that is absolutely untrue. And every UN agency and international observer reports that it's not true. There is now severe starvation in Gaza with many children, as well as adults perishing, not just from the bombing and the snipers, but now from famine. Our mutual friend and colleague, the great Ray McGovern, reports from sources that there is now

even, this is unthinkable because I thought it was eradicated. Apparently it's not. Polio in Gaza. And apparently a major, retired major general by the name, I don't know if you know him from your days, Giora Island, last name E-I-L-A-N-D, praised the polio and said, this is a way to help degrade the population. How could you praise polio? What kind of a human being could praise polio? Well, not only that, the Israeli Defense Forces, the occupation forces, proceeded to blow up the major water treatment facility in Rafah.

Precisely in order to ensure that polio kills more people. So if you had any doubt that this was a war of annihilation, of extermination, forget it. It's obvious. What will happen if Kamala Harris gets elected president and calls up Netanyahu and says, you have 24 hours to enter into a ceasefire, otherwise all of our arms and equipment and ammunition stops. I think he would be forced to take that very seriously, because basically Israel cannot conduct this war, this mass murder, without direct constant support from the United States.

And I think it's amazing that at the very moment that the World Court finds that Israel has no standing under international law to occupy the areas that it does to expel people in the way it does, that it must make restitution or pay compensation, that it must cease and desist its genocidal actions. The very same moment Netanyahu appears before the U.S. Congress to thunderous applause by what can only be called his useful idiots, his stooges on Capitol Hill. This was a defilement of our democracy. It was a demonstration of our complicity in everything that Israel has been doing. And it was a national humiliation to anybody with an ounce of pride in American independence and autonomy.

He offered no plan for peace. He just offered threats, fear, and bellicosity. And the Republicans were determined to give him more standing ovations than he got last time. Last time he got 55, and this time supposedly he got 58. I fully agree with your very candid and strong analysis and even condemnation of this. Our friend Scott Ritter said, well, what do you expect? He paid for the audience. He literally paid the audience. That's why I say this is a disgrace. It reveals the Congress to be what much of the American public believes it to be, namely bought and paid for by special interests, subservient to them and incapable of independent judgment. Switching subjects, Ambassador, is NATO preparing for a land war against Russia? I certainly hope not, and I don't think such a war would benefit NATO in any way whatsoever. I mean, one of the surprises of many surprises,

given the statements with which we backed Russia into a corner and provoked it into the invasion of Ukraine, was that the Russian army was weak and incompetent. Nothing has proven to be farther from the case. I note also that we thought Russian economy would collapse. And yet now there is apparently a consumer boom in Russia. And the economy is larger than that of Germany in purchasing power terms. And of course, the war has also gutted German industry. So if NATO really thinks that's a good idea, they need to have their heads examined. You mentioned Germany. President Putin's not happy with the idea of

the U.S. and the rest of the West deploying missiles in Germany. Here's what he said about this just yesterday. Cut number one. The situation recalls the events of the Cold War era. If the U.S. implements such plans, we will consider ourselves free from the previously imposed one-sided moratorium on the deployment of medium and shorter range strike systems. We will take mirror measures for their deployment. Can you tell us what he's referring to, Ambassador? Well, first of all, it's the Intermediate Nuclear Forces Treaty from which we withdrew.

That was about five years ago. The Russians have, however, continued to respect the terms of the treaty on a unilateral basis. He's talking about ending that observation of the treaty's terms. But more particularly, his reference to the Cold War is a reference to the Cuban Missile Crisis. Basically, what he has said is that if the United States puts the sorts of weapons in Germany that it proposes to put there, which would happen in 2026, I think, this would reduce warning time for a strike on Moscow to 10 minutes. And that he's saying the Russians will match that. Well, they will match that not only in Europe, but they will try, I believe, to match it in the Western Hemisphere. So here we go again. I don't know where in the Western Hemisphere they would find it possible to base missiles that could strike Washington on a 10-minute period, maybe just submarines. But we're playing with fire here and there's no particular reason for it. There's no threat from Russia to Europe beyond the areas of Ukraine that it has taken.

If Ukraine were neutral, it would be a buffer state. We have foolishly involved it directly. We've led it to the slaughterhouse, basically, in a war with Russia that it is losing, and we are losing too. Is there any way Ukraine can prevail in this war, or is it just a matter of time? Is their military so weak, is their economy and even their society and their government so unstable? I mean, Zelensky isn't even the lawful president any longer. Well, mr zielinski because he's caught between his minders in the west who began this war with the idea that they would fight to the last ukrainian we're almost down to the last ukrainians now that's the problem lack of manpower

but he was also under pressure from the extremist if you will neo-nazi elements in western ukraine uh who uh support him um you know we have the odd situation where we have at least a nominally jewish president of ukraine um uh extolling the virtues of Stepan Bandera, who killed 150,000 Poles and 250,000 Jews, not personally, but his movement did. Mr. Zelensky has erected statues of this man all over Ukraine. So could Ukraine prevail in this war?

I don't think so. I think time is not on its side. The pressure for negotiation is there. And Zelensky is beginning to react to that pressure. His foreign minister, Kuleba, went to Beijing and had a conversation with Wang Yi, the Chinese foreign minister in Guangzhou, in which he said that Ukraine was now prepared to negotiate with Russia, provided negotiations took place in good faith. Any diplomat would tell you that that formula is an invitation to the Chinese to go to the Russians and clarify the terms on which they would negotiate.

And finally, Mr. Zelensky himself has said, following a visit to Kiev by a Vatican emissary, that the war has to be ended as soon as possible. So I think he has the clear understanding that time is not on his side. And if the war goes on, what is happening daily, namely Russian advances on a steady basis in places like Donetsk at the moment, will continue. further and further until it is reduced to a rump state and a rump state that cannot be defended by itself or for that matter by NATO.

So everybody has a stake in reaching an agreement on peace, but the one man in Europe who is trying hard to produce a dialogue about peace, Viktor Orban, is being castigated and punished as much as possible by us, by the European Union, and he is standing his ground to his credit. I don't know how much prospect there is for his success, but his country, Hungary, is a frontline state, and he has a real stake in trying to produce a stable, peaceful order in Europe. Isn't he occupying the rotating chair or presidency of the EU as we speak?

He took over July 1st. He has a six-month tour in that role. He's being accused by the EU of exceeding his brief, although he's been very careful to say that he's speaking for Hungary, even if he is also the EU president. But all the usual NATO-related figures in Europe are vigorously condemning him. And as a matter of fact, they are conspiring with Ukraine to cut Hungary off oil supplies, which went through a pipeline through Ukraine to Hungary and Slovakia. Slovakia stands with Hungary in arguing for an early end to this war.

Going back to, well, sort of in NATO, but back to Israel, a NATO member earlier today threatened to enter Israel, presumably militarily, in order to save the Palestinians. If you haven't seen this, watch this. Cut number five, Chris. What was our import-export ratio in the defense industry? Where have we come to? But my dear brothers and sisters, let none of these fool us or should deceive us. We must be very strong so that this Israel cannot do these ridiculous things to Palestine. Just as we entered Karabakh, just as we entered Libya, we will do the same to them. There is no reason for us not to.

We only have to be strong so that we can take these steps. How serious is this threat and should Prime Minister Netanyahu be concerned about Turkish involvement? Well, Turkey is by quite a margin the strongest country militarily in terms of numbers and capacity and of course the Turkish soldier has a reputation for fierceness and bravery that are unmatched, going back to Korea, the Korean War when Turkey participated. Turkey's a member of NATO, as you said, but it has also been reorienting itself away from Europe, which rebuffed it on the grounds that it's a Muslim country. In Europe, particularly the French, insist on Europeans being Christian. And it is even reorienting itself toward the Middle East.

It is seeking a position of leadership in the region. I don't think Mr. Erdogan has any intention of going into Israel at this point. But he's declaring solidarity with the Palestinians on a level only matched by Iran, with which Turkey now has a very good relationship. So what we're seeing is that the Israeli atrocities, which are daily shown in far greater detail and in greater volume on the television screens of the region than they are here, is driving the region into a serious coalition against Israel. So Israel is accumulating even more enemies,

even as it fails to gain anything in the fight in Gaza and with the pogroms and settler violence in the West Bank. One of your ambassadorial colleagues who's a regular on this show, Alistair Crook, refers to the countries in the Middle East whose populations overwhelmingly condemn the behavior of the IDF in Gaza, but whose governments have done little to resist it, as the resistance. And then he said, well, Judge, like every resistance, it has a control room. So, Ambassador Freeman, is there a control room? And if so, where is it and who runs it? And can I see it?

Well, Alistair is brilliant, so I wouldn't hesitate to contradict him. But I don't think there's a control room. But his basic point, that the leaders in the region, through their inaction, are at odds with their populaces, which demand action, is entirely right. And Mr. Erdogan is a very good politician, and he has just appealed over the heads of the Arab leaders who have done nothing for the Palestinians directly to the peoples of the region. This is all part of his effort, I believe, to re-establish Turkey as the leading power in the Middle East. I don't think it presages a Turkish invasion of Israel. And if there is a control room, maybe Alistair knows where it is, but I don't. He's not at liberty to say a phrase practiced from one of his prior lives.

How precarious is Israel as a state today under the leadership of Benjamin Netanyahu? Well, I think it's in serious difficulty, and not just economically, where it has taken great pride, and justifiably so, as an incubator for high-tech startups. But those startups are now being moved offshore to other places. We don't know how many Israelis have actually emigrated since October 7, but one hears numbers that are over half a million, maybe more. There are two million Israelis with second passports. There is a growing lack of confidence in the survivability of Israel as a secure place for Jews. In fact, it is the least secure place on the planet for Jews at present,

thanks to Mr. Netanyahu and the policies he's pursued. Its economy is in a deep depression. The army, like the negotiators you mentioned earlier, who don't want to implement Mr. Netanyahu's orders. The army and the professional negotiators for Israel are both at odds with its government. The government is exceedingly unpopular. The Orthodox, ultra Orthodox Jews, the Haredim, who have been exempt from service in the army,

are now threatened with being called into it. And there is a danger. The government hangs on with a majority in the cabinet by a hair's breadth. So this is a very unhappy country. And that is probably why Mr. Netanyahu decided to traipse off to Washington, where he got a welcome he could never get in Israel. And televised in Israel, probably to the great satisfaction of his supporters, such as they are. But that speech has been widely condemned in Israel. Yes.

He didn't mention the hostage problem at all. No, it was a big mistake not to mention the hostage problem, not to talk about peace, not to offer a proposal for peace. It was just Netanyahu at his bellicose worst to bring us back to where we started. Here's the Lebanese foreign minister. This is earlier today, Ambassador, talking about the killing of the Druze soccer boys. You know, so we don't know who did it. I know Hezbollah is accused by Israel that they did it. Hezbollah refuses. My feeling is that why would Hezbollah is accused by Israel that they did it. Hezbollah refuses. My feeling is that why would Hezbollah do it to kill Arabs, to kill Syrians? And Hezbollah has been, you know, always targeting military positions of Israel, not civilians.

The number of civilians killed in Israel was less than seven, while in Lebanon, over more than 100 killed by Israel in Lebanon. So I cannot understand why would Hezbollah do it. There's no logic in it. Makes sense to me. And to me too.

As I said earlier, Israel has been the sole target of Hezbollah. I should have added, as Foreign Minister Buhabib did, that it has only attacked military targets. It has, of course, mistakes occur, but it has very much limited its targets to military installations. And why would Hezbollah seek to kill Syrians? It just doesn't make any sense. Ambassador Freeman, thank you very much for your time.

I know we covered two very hot topics. I appreciate all of your analysis. I hope you can join us again next week. Thank you very much. interview him. Tomorrow at 12 noon Eastern, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson. At two o'clock Eastern, Matt Ho. At three o'clock Eastern, Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski. Justin Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thanks for watching!