Judging Freedom - AMB. Chas Freeman : Can Trump Control Netanyahu?

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

AMB. Chas Freeman : Can Trump Control Netanyahu?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Save over 24% off by going to ZIPA.com and using the code Happy Today. Text fees may apply. Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, October 13, 2025. My dear friend, Ambassador Chas Freeman, joins us now. Ambassador Freeman, thank you very much. Before we get into who controls whom, Netanyahu or Trump, what is your take? What is your initial reaction to the events in Jerusalem today? Is this a substantial agreement for peace, or is it an act? More of the latter. President Trump's

proclaimed today the dawn of a new era in the Middle East. I wish that were likely to be the case. I don't think so. This is a tactical retreat by Israel. In order to pursue the aim it is always pursued, which is disarming Palestinian nationalism and expelling the Palestinians from their lands. The genocide has been paused, not ended. And I find it doubly ironic that we have a meeting going on in Cairo between western leaders who are posing as the saviors of the Palestinians when they are, in fact, among the perpetrators of the genocide. So this is a ceasefire and a hostage exchange. Presumably, the Hamas will do its best to find and unearth and to return the court. corpses of those hostages who died.

But in the West, it is being treated as though the only issue in the Middle East is Israeli hostages. And of course, that is the case for Israelis, apparently. But that is not the issue in the Middle East. The issue is whether or not Palestinians and Israelis can coexist. And Israel has determined that it does not want to coexist with Palestinians. It has not changed its mind. in the Israeli cabinet are calling for the immediate resumption of genocide once the hostages

have been returned and are in their hands. Netanyahu has said that he has not agreed to halt the genocide. Hamas is being pressed to disarm, but it has not agreed to that either and won't. It will not give to Israel as a negotiating table, but it has successfully denied it on the battlefield of the last two years. So what is this? This is a flash in the pan, and it is a pseudo event in many respects in terms of the main issues, which have to do with how to preserve, how to establish a basis for some sort of peaceful coexistence between parties in the Middle East.

When President Trump was asked just three days ago, uh if the united states guarantees that once hamas disarms israel won't resume the bombing here's his answer to see if you can tell me if this is a yes or a no cut number one chris what guarantees hamas disarms and that israel doesn't resume bombing once the hostages are the first thing we're doing is getting our hostages back okay and that's what people wanted more than anything else they wanted these hostages back that have lived in hell like like nobody has ever even dreamt possible. And after that, we'll see.

But they've agreed to things, and I think it's going to move along pretty well. That sound like a guarantee to you? Certainly does not. And I note again that he says, people say the most important thing is the hostages. Well, this so-called agreement was not the product of any consultation, with any Palestinian,

not even the captive, subordinate Palestinian authority of Mahmoud Abbas, let alone Hamas. That is not the Palestinian desire. That is the Israeli desire. So he's basically saying Israel can do whatever it want. And that, of course, is going to further erode its credibility internationally and particularly in the Middle East. because Hamas placed great reliance on a guarantee that they were offered during the talks from President Trump personally. I did not hear him reiterate or affirm any such commitment in the clip you just played. I don't think he expects that he can restrain Netanyahu.

I mean, can this be considered the victory that Netanyahu claims he has yet? to defeat the Palestinians. In Gaza, he has severely impaired Israel, economically, socially, politically, diplomatically, culturally, and the whole world, including a majority of the United States, now questions the moral basis for a Zionist state. Well, as I said, I think this is a tactical retreat by Israel that is necessitated by their strategic failure. They have not succeeded in accomplishing their objectives vis-a-vis the Palestinians.

In Gaza, they have not eradicated the most formidable element of the Palestinian national resistance. And they have, in fact, in the course of what they've done, as you suggest, plotted their reputation to the point where people consider them evil. There's a whole fabric of international law that governs these situations. situations. The Fourth Geneva Convention, which Israel is subject to and is signatory to, prohibits the movement of settlers in the territories that are occupied. It prohibits the annexation of occupied territories. Israel's done both, of course, massively. In the third Geneva Convention,

prevention, limits of warfare in various respects. You can't target civilians. You can't engage in inhumane treatment or torture of those who capture. And these are all war crimes, every one of which Israel is committed. There's international law prohibits collective punishment, and yet that has been the basis of Israeli policy. There's another element here, Hamas has violated international law. That is to say, international law gives peoples who are occupied and oppressed a right of

resistance, including armed resistance. That right is real, and it justifies fighting the Israeli military. But it cannot override the commitment of other laws that prohibit targeting civilians, taking hostages, and so forth, which Hamas has done. So what is the net effect of all this? Israel has not won a victory, but it has succeeded in destroying the entire fabric of the law of war and destroying its own international reputation. And what will be the, if anything, the legal consequences for all this?

I mean, Netanyahu, probably, according to Alistair, or Crook, wants to attack Iran before the end of November because of weather conditions and Israeli concerns about their jets flying in clouds and fog and things like that that will come about from December to March. Does he need another war to stay in power? He may very well. I think once the jubilation of the release of the hostages is behind us, and I certainly understand and completely sympathize with the hostage families in Israel and share their joy that their hostages have been released, once that happens, the focus will shift to the other elements there. The focus has been moved deliberately as part of information warfare onto the hostage issue. That isn't going to be there anymore. So people will focus much more on the other issues, genocide, starvation, Israeli torture, Israeli use of sodomy and jails against Palestinian prisoners.

Israel's refusal to release anyone like Marwan Paruti who might conceivably be able to craft a legitimate coexistence framework for Palestinians with Israelis. All of this is going to become the focus. And Netanyahu is still subject to Israeli prosecution for corruption, his wife as well, and he is desperate to remain in power, and perhaps he does need another war. I don't know about when the attack on Iran will happen. I'm not as sure as Alistair is, but his judgment is pretty sound,

and I won't gainsay what he said. Here's a clip from President Trump speaking and being interrupted by two Israeli members of the Knesset, who were waving Palestinian flags and saying in Hebrew, I understand from the Haaret's report of this, recognized Palestine. Watch what happened. Expect them, and they somehow can relate to them.

I've known them for many years, and I've seen it over and over again. To take the Khabel-Gle-Khese-Od-Dohm, to use it out of the Ullam. To see it from yet. Houtza, out. This Knesset member, please expel this Knesset member. So they were taking Palestinian flags or some sort of Palestinian public paraphernalia or some sort of Palestinian public paraphernalia from the hands of those two Knessetepernet

the rest of the Knesset was chanting, I think they were chanting Trump, Trump, Trump. This was while President Trump was addressing the Knesset. Are there members of the Knesset who are Palestinians or are these Israelis who are in favor of a Palestinian state? Well, I don't know who the two were, but there are Palestinian Israelis, Israeli citizens, who are Palestinian about 20 percent of Israel proper. is Palestinian rather than Ashkenazi or Mizrahi, either European Jews or Arab Jews who imploded into Israel after life in Arab countries became untenable for them upon Israel's establishment.

So I suspect that these are Arab members of the Knesset. And I would just say if you want a graphic illustration, of the fact that Israel is a democracy for Jews and a tyranny for Arabs. You just saw it. Right, right. Why do you think that Prime Minister Netanyahu is not going to Sharmal Sheikh with President Trump later today to meet with the Western colonizers of Gaza? Well, Hamas is not present there either. So I guess that's the reciprocal here. I don't know that he would be acceptable among many of the members of Arab countries who are attending in Cairo.

He is widely regarded as a monster. Nobody wants a photo off with him other than Donald Trump. For, of course, domestic political purposes, the value of which today, He is seriously in question. I mean, Ahretz had a very interesting piece this morning. I know you read it as I do, saying Netanyahu's next battle is a PR one. It's with trying to reshape, code word for lie about his involvement and extension of all this damage to Israel. What's he going to do?

Come and speak to the Congress again and be interrupted with standing ovation's 58. times and 56 minutes? It could happen. I think, you know, it's been very clear his last presence in the United States included a meeting with influencers who now get $7,000 for every posting they make that move that has the potential to move American opinion back toward Israel. I mean, this is not a joke. This is heavily funded program. He made it very clear that the biggest thing that's happening right now is the removal

of the independence of TikTok. It is now being bought by Jewish plutocrats who intend to alter the algorithm to ensure that it cannot be the repository of posts, like some, which, including a series, which is really quite horrifying to watch called Genocide TikTok. This kind of thing won't be allowed in the future. And since 70% of American youth appear to get their news from TikTok, this is a big strategic propaganda move by Israel. I'm going to play a clip from President Trump's speech to the Knesset, because he apparently departed, as he often does from the text.

But this time, he publicly asked Israeli President Isaac Herzog to pardon Prime Minister Netanyahu. So the prosecutions of Netanyahu, which probably will resume, must be on everybody's mind. Watch this. Hey, I have an idea. Mr. President, why don't you give him a pardon? By the way, by the way, that was not in the speeches, you probably know. But I happened to like this gentleman right over here, and it just seems to make so much sense. You know, whether we like it or not, this has been one of the greatest

wartime presidents. This has been one of the greatest wartime presidents and cigars and champagne,

who the hell cares about? Well, talking about cigars and champagne that Netanyahu apparently accepted, it came to

$140,000 worth. Failed to report. That's one of the acts of corruption. Of course, he referred to Netanyahu as the president of Israeli, he's not, he's a leader of political party, and is the prime minister. Your thoughts? So this is sycophancy in return for sycophoncy.

Trump eats up sycifancy, so does Netanyahu. It is also an oath of fealty to Netanyahu, again for domestic political purposes and reasons. It is Trump consolidating design a support for himself in the United States and it is also an illustration of an important point going back to an earlier discussion in an earlier part of this chat in domestic law if criminal behavior is routinely pardoned because of the political prominence of the criminal there is no law We have a lawless society. We're on the way of achieving that in the United States, but President Trump just suggested

that Israel do the same. Second, go back to the question of international law. If law is disregarded routinely and there is no implementation of the law, no execution of it, no punitive action taken against law. breakers, then there is no law. So we are back to the law of the jungle, and we are back to arbitrary and capricent's governance without any checks and balances. My first of my ten books was called constitutional chaos, what happens when the government breaks its own laws? And it is a study of American governmental law breaking and the consequences

of it and the consequences of it of course are more law-breaking by non-governmental people who take their cues from the government the subjective enforcement of law like we see today if three grand juries decide not to indict someone well let's go to a fourth and we'll limit what we tell that grand jury because the president wants this person prosecuted even though lawyers will resign rather than take up these cases. Apparently the same thing now may be happening in Israel. I don't know. It sounds as though this was unexpected and unplanned Netanyahu beaming like a schoolboy

because he must know that if the war ends, his prosecutions resume. What happens if now that the hostages, the Israeli hostages, are back? And by the way, we didn't see any Western media views of the Palestinian hostages being released. Mr. Bargudi was number one on that list. Netanyahu himself crossed his name off after the Americans agreed, after the other Arab countries agreed. So I don't know how he could do that with a so-called agreement. Nevertheless, what happens if he resumed? bombs and starvation in Gaza?

Well, I think, judging from the demeanor of President Trump, absolutely nothing will happen in terms of American reproach or efforts to block that. So the guarantee that Hamas so vocally accepted doesn't exist. You can't have an agreement that is not agreed between the party. As I said earlier, the Palestinians were not consulted on any element of this agreement. They didn't agree to it. It was imposed on them. They accepted phase one of the agreement.

Israel also has not accepted anything beyond phase one, which is the return of the hostages in a ceasefire, along with one hoax substantial influx of food and medical supplies for the belief. for the beleaguered population in Gaza. So, as I said, this is not a peace. It's not even a step toward peace. It's a new form of pacification campaign, not military for the time being,

but leaving open the possibility, in fact the very likely probability that a pretext will be found to resume the genocide. We're going to isolate what you just said and play it when the pretext is triggered. Would it surprise you to learn that among the guests in Air Force One, and one of Trump's honored guests on the floor of the, or in the gallery of the Knesset, was Mrs. Miriam Ailsson?

No, it would not. And I suspect that when he proposed a party, for Netanyahu he was in part addressing her yes ambassador Freeman great commentary thank you so much you're so filled with intellectual honesty and personal courage it's a joy for me to chat with you I know this is not your usual day or usual time I have a different week coming up and I truly appreciate your accommodating my schedule I know you have a very busy week as well thank you so much my dear friend we'll look forward to seeing you next week at your usual day in time.

Thank you. Thank you. All the best. Coming up at 10 o'clock this morning, Ray McGovern at 11 o'clock this morning, Max Blumenthal at 1130 this morning, Larry Johnson at 1 o'clock this afternoon, Scott Ritter. What a day at 3.30 this afternoon, Colonel Douglas McGregor at 4. this afternoon, Professor Jeffrey Sachs. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.