Judging Freedom - AMB. Chas Freeman: Is Trump Afraid of Netanyahu?

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

AMB. Chas Freeman: Is Trump Afraid of Netanyahu?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, February 11th, 2025. Ambassador Charles Freeman will be here with us in just a moment on who's afraid of whom, Netanyahu of Trump or Trump of Netanyahu. But first, this. Markets are at an all-time high. Euphoria has set in. The economy seems unstoppable. But the last administration has buried us so deep in debt and deficits, it's going to

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accommodating my schedule. As a practical political matter, not legal or constitutional, but as a practical political matter, is Donald Trump free to defy Benjamin Netanyahu? Apparently, he has no such instinct. He appears to have conveyed to Mr. Netanyahu? Apparently he has no such instinct. He appears to have conveyed to Mr. Netanyahu that we will not join him in an attack on Iran, but at the same time he's provided, I think, 11 mother of all bombs, the hugest bomb we've ever built, which is really only useful after the Iranian nuclear program to the Israelis. And he had upped the ante consistently in Gaza. It's clear with his latest threat, which is that if the Israeli hostages are not out by Saturday. Netanyahu should resume the genocide in Gaza that he is entirely supportive of Netanyahu. So I don't know. I mean, that's a good question. But as a practical matter,

there's no evidence that he has any independence at all from the Zionist agenda. Is that because of the power? I mean, Donald Trump is not really an ideological person or a deep philosophical thinker. Is that because of the power of the donor class? I mean, the donor class is of extraordinary power. You've written and spoken about this at length. Yeah, well, we know that Miriam Adelson, the widow of the late casino operator and owner,

Sheldon Adelson, apparently gave at least $100 million to the Trump campaign in return for a promise to permit, to facilitate Israel carrying out the ethnic cleansing that it is engaged in. So clearly the donor class is very important, but I don't think we should just focus on the prejudices of Mr. Trump himself. So it's very telling. He reacted to the reappearance of three emaciated Israeli hostages released by Hamas with horror. They didn't get showers. They were not fed properly. But they were living in an environment where the Israelis had cut off the water and were trying to starve the Palestinians.

He had no reaction at all to the appearance of the Palestinians released by the Israelis, some of whom had to be carried out on stretchers, who were all emaciated, some of whom had clearly been tortured. But, you know, it's entirely one-sided. So I think moral blindness combines with subservience to the donor class to produce what we see. When the president says, I want the hostages released by noon on Monday, I mean, is he referring to the next group of hostages, or is he referring to all the remaining hostages? Is he talking about strict compliance with the ceasefire, or does he want all the hostages released, or do we not know? And then he says,

hell will break loose. Does he mean American troops or American military is going to do something? Or he's going to tell Bibi, use those 2,000-pound bombs if you want? Well, it appears that he refers to all of the hostages, which is something quite different from carrying out the three-phase ceasefire that his envoy, Mr. Wyckoff, negotiated. So this is, again, another instance of why Mr. Trump's having a problem internationally. The Iranians won't speak to him. The Russians won't admit they've spoken to him. He's not been able to make a call to Xi Jinping. And the reason is that, as he is demonstrating, his word is valueless. He does not stand by the agreements he makes. He feels free to alter them at will. And in this case, it's very clear what he intends, which is to unleash the Israeli forces to continue their genocide in Gaza. very clearly that his proposed real estate redevelopment of Gaza into some kind of Riviera

will preclude the Palestinians from ever returning to it. So this is moral obtuseness and it's advocacy of a war crime, but he doesn't seem to care. Here he is talking about the condition of the hostages, the Israeli hostages, not the Palestinian ones. Cut number two, Chris. Hamas has been a disaster. And by the way, I have to tell you that I watched the hostages come back today, and they looked like Holocaust survivors. They were in horrible condition. They were emaciated.

It looked like many years ago, the Holocaust survivors, even the ones that came out earlier, they were in a little bit better shape, but mentally they were treated so badly. Who could take that? You know, at some point, we're going to lose our patience. When I see that scene that I saw today with people coming out of helicopters and airplanes that are emaciated, that looked like they haven't had a meal in a month. And I don't know how long we're going to take that. That was on Air Force One, either flying to or flying back from the Super Bowl on Sunday. But you're quite correct, Ambassador. They were in Gaza, where the Israelis have cut off water and food supply, and the Palestinian people don't look much better than those hostages. Why is it that we don't see the

Palestinian hostages being released from prison showing signs of torture and unable to walk? In part, our media are self-censoring. They are very pro-Israeli. They toe the line in terms of following Israeli guidance on what should and should not be reported. And so we don't see the other side of the story, which is by far the more dramatic and important. Because what Israel has done with our assistance in Gaza is destroy international law, destroy human decency, and do it with utter impunity. This is the end of an era in which, which began several centuries ago, in which the West, dominant in the world for most of that period, attempted to build a rules-bound order. We have dismantled it. Ambassador, how significant, I know you're very familiar with the Saudis and the way they think

and the way they speak. How significant was the Saudi denunciation of Trump's proposal that the United States would own Gaza, a denunciation that twice referred to him or the proposal, it's hard to tell depending on how you translate it, you could translate it, as extremist. Well, in speaking of extremism, they're talking about religious extremism in Israel, I think, rather than Mr. Trump. But the Saudis are exquisitely polite and low-key, usually. I have literally never seen statements from Riyadh as tough as those. They were very forthright. Why did they make those statements? Because, as is usually the case, this Dunedin Yahu, in addition to saying,

well, Saudi Arabia should just carve out a homeland for the Palestinians on its territory, which is absurd, in addition to that sort of thing, Israel and the Israelis, as usual, stretch the truth. We see stuff from Zionist spokesmen in the United States saying that Saudi normalization with Israel is just almost in the bag, it's about to happen, which is complete nonsense. And finally, the Saudis have just had it and opened up and said, that is not true. And we will not normalize relations with Israel unless and until there is a Palestinian state with its capital in East Jerusalem. Not a process or a promise, but a state. This is about as direct and forceful as you could be, and it's very un-Saudi.

What are the chances of that happening, Ambassador, a Palestinian state? I mean, is it just a fanciful goal, as moral as it would be? Well, the chances are obviously poor. And as much as a Palestinian state is the only way to guarantee. Let me just stop you for a second, Ambassador. Chris, you can put that photo up. This is from the BBC. These are Palestinian prisoners being released.

It's a still photo. It's not a video. It doesn't show the ones that couldn't walk, but it does show them emaciated. Go ahead again, please, Ambassador. No, I was just going to say the only way Israel can enjoy long-term security is by agreeing that the Palestinians, like the Jews in Israel, should have self-determination in their own state. That is the only way to Israeli security.

Otherwise, Israel's security depends on constant warfare against its neighbors. neighbors, and we have at the moment over Gaza and the real estate approach to it, we have an incipient breakdown of the Camp David Accords, which have been the mainstay of peace between Israel and Egypt and Jordan. We've had statements from Mr. Trump that he might suspend aid to Jordan and Egypt if they don't take the Palestinians. That is a direct assault on Camp David, where basically they have been will regard that as a casus belli and declare war on Israel. We have similar statements of a more moderate nature, but equally alarming from the Egyptians. And it wasn't just the Saudis who denounced these proposals. It was the entire Arab League.

It was the contact group that the Arabs had put together. The UAE included a great friend of the United States in the region joined fully in these denunciations despite being in the Abraham Accords. I think by speaking recklessly about support for ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians, our government is risking the complete collapse of the Abraham Accords, the isolation of Israel again in its region, and its isolation in the world, and our isolation. So this is very serious. Masseter has any country, have the diplomats from any country, has the head of state of any country on the planet,

besides the Prime Minister of Israel, endorsed this plan of United States ownership of Gaza and the total expulsion of the Palestinian people from Gaza? No, and there has been almost universal denunciation of our government and Mr. Trump for making these proposals. I mean, could this be some sort of a trial balloon or negotiating ploy? Or is it so outrageous, so disrespectful of the human rights of the Palestinian people that it can't be taken seriously even as a ploy or a tool or an instrument of achieving another goal.

Well, it is true that Mr. Trump's negotiating style is to open with outrageous threats and bluster. We've seen that repeatedly. But I agree with outgoing Prime Minister Trudeau in Canada. He's serious. But, you know, he's proposing to annex Canada. He's serious. But, you know, he's proposing to annex Canada. He's proposing to reconquer the Panama Canal. He's proposing to go against another ally, Denmark, and seize Greenland. And he is proposing to destroy the entire framework that has maintained, if not peace, at least a level of stability in the Middle East.

So he is an extremely disruptive element. And I think at this point we have zero credibility internationally. And, you know, and again, I say people don't want to deal with him because he has an almost perfect record of overturning agreements that he himself has made. Canada and Mexico signed on to a revised version of NAFTA in his first term. He has repudiated that in favor of tariffs. And of course, he has now put a 10% tariff on China, which on top of the earlier tariffs that he put adds up to 25%. So this is a behavior that is very hard to understand and seems to be more performative, more fantasy foreign policy than anything real.

Ambassador, I believe that in addition to King Abdullah, General al-Sisi of Egypt is also visiting the president this morning. What would become of their governments if they announced with President Trump that they're each going to take a half a million Palestinians, refugees. In the case of Jordan, the monarchy would be overthrown probably very quickly. In the case of Egypt, there would probably be a civil war. You know, Egypt did normalize relations with Israel on the assumption that it would have the support of the United States in fostering its economic development and independence. And what Mr. Trump is now offering is humiliation and an intolerable export of fellow Arabs from a different country, Palestine, to Egypt,

something Egypt has always rejected. So I think both governments would fall. Ambassador, how do the Russian and Chinese governments, if at all, view these developments in Gaza and President Trump's latest offer? Well, I suppose they are very happy about it because it totally discredits the United States. But so far, the actions we've seen, for example, in response to the gutting of USAID have been in the Pacific, where small countries that we have been courting

to keep them away from the Chinese are now turning to the Chinese. In the Sahel, in the northern part of sub-Saharan Africa, we're seeing the same phenomenon. They've turned against the French and now are turning to the Chinese and to some extent the Russians. We are not an alternative anymore. Our reputation, which was based in part on our provision of humanitarian and other development assistance to countries, which made them regard us with favor and gave us an image of benevolence is gone. Who gains from Trump's proposal? I mean, Colonel McGregor and Scott Ritter are both of the view that this is a slap in the face to Prime Minister Netanyahu by effectively saying you can't solve the Gaza problem,

so step aside, Bibi, I'll solve it for you. Do you have that view? Not quite. I mean, I think in terms of its impact on Israeli politics, this is a discrediting of Netanyahu, obviously. But then he's been discredited by his own people, his intelligence services, the military, the ultra-Orthodox, the families of the hostages,

economists, because he has set out the goal of annihilating Hamas, and that is impossible by military means, as we have seen. Fifteen months of bombing and sniping and apparently the use of gas in tunnels have resulted in nothing. And by the way, the three hostages that Mr. Trump referred to, who did look emaciated, clearly had a very hard time, were originally above ground. They were moved down into a tunnel after the Israelis assaulted an above ground place where the hostages were located and succeeded in taking two or three of them. The only major release of hostages has been as a result of negotiations,

diplomacy, if you will, between Israel and Hamas, brokered by the United States and Qatar. And so the idea that somehow returning to warfare, which Mr. Trump seems to favor, along with Mr. Netanyahu, who's made no secret that that is his preference, is bound to kill the remaining hostages, those that are still alive. Ambassador Charles Freeman, always a pleasure, my dear friend, no matter what we're speaking about. Thank you for your insight. And again, thank you for accommodating my schedule this morning. I hope we can see you again next week. All the best to you, Ambassador. And coming up later today at 10 o'clock this morning, Professor Jeffrey Sachs

at 1.15 this afternoon, the aggressive progressive, my friend Chris Hahn at 2 o'clock this afternoon, Matt Ho at 3 o'clock this afternoon, Karen Kwiatkowski at 4 o'clock this afternoon, Matt Ho. At 3 o'clock this afternoon, Karen Kwiatkowski. At 4 o'clock this afternoon, always worth waiting for, Colonel Douglas McGregor. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thank you.