Judging Freedom - Americans leaving Both Political Parties w/Radio Free Allman

Episode Date: March 9, 2022

Many Americans untethering themselves from both political parties . Lots of common ground was found during Covid & the shutdowns.- w/Jaime AllmanSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello there, everyone. Welcome to Judging Freedom. Judge Andrew Napolitano here. Today is Wednesday, March 9th, 2022. I'm coming to you from a snowy blizzard Northwest New Jersey Which reminds me of the morning that I met our next guest When I was snowed over in St. Louis, Missouri And was doing a radio show with my then Fox colleague And wonderful person Brian Kilmeade And Fox was desperately looking for a radio studio for me to use And we ran into a wonderful human being

Who's become a part of my life since then, Jamie Ullman. Jamie, he joins us now. How are you, my dear friend? Oh, Judge Napolitano, it's a real privilege, and it's also so unusual. I think it's the first time I'm on the other end of the microphone being interviewed. So I'm just- How many times have I been on your radio show, maybe a thousand. Oh, yeah. Yes. Going way back to 2007, I believe.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. It's an absolute delight. I'm on with Jamie every Tuesday morning at nine o'clock Eastern, eight o'clock Central. He's in Missouri. And it's an absolute joy. Jamie and I have many things in common, many mutual friends. And we have a great time on the radio. And I'm thrilled that you have, which I share, that a lot of people, a lot of mainstream

middle American people seem to be losing interest in the two political parties and almost seem to be coalescing somewhere that is not at the center of either party. Can you explain that, please? Yeah, it's kind of all one of the more joyous parts of the panacdemic, actually, is how it really brought together so many different kinds of groups, whether it be the mama bears or the papa bears or the regular people who hadn't voted in 10 years, people who hadn't voted in school board elections ever. And so in many ways, I have to tell you, Judge, in all honesty, as long as I've known you, the truth of the matter is a lot of people are finally catching up to you. Because all along, and we talked about the Patriot Act a long time ago, and that was at the time when people were either Republican or Democrat. The Republicans loved the Patriot Act, and they had to save their lives and do all that kind of thing. And we all kind of bought in to this story about how we needed to give up some of our rights for security. You've been sounding this alarm for a long, long time.

But imagine how long it's taken for people to finally realize what it's like to truly have your freedoms taken away. With the Patriot Act, you had a few arrests here, a few raids there, a few this, a few that. But with this pandemic, what you had were churches being closed, schools being closed, masks being mandated, vaccines being mandated, all kinds of changes in our lives. And we finally realized what control our government truly has, especially in the lower level. People being surveilled upon using the Patriot Act to see if they were complying or if they were conspiring to violate the mandates. Now, you and I have argued, have agreed many times that the mandates were unlawful. They didn't come from the legislature.

They came from governors or they came from the president under our system. Governors and the president don't write laws, but only the legislatures do. It's funny what you say about the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act was actually introduced on the floor of the Senate by Bob Torricelli, Senator from New Jersey. Bob is now a very dear friend of mine, and he has said publicly and would say again on your radio show or my podcast, if he could reverse one thing that he did in his 12 years in the United States Senate, it would be his support of the Patriot Act, because he, a liberal Democrat, now sees the damage it has done to human freedom.

Yeah, and I think there are a lot of people now, speaking of freedom, I think we have been, as hard as it's been the last couple of years, I feel like we have been freed in that we have been untethered from these party allegiances that the founding fathers didn't find very attractive in the first place. And so we're kind of back to the original days when people just kind of either A, minded their own business, or just simply focused on standing up for their families, for their jobs, for their own prosperity, for their country, for their security, everything else without the parties. And it's weird watching television now and listening to some of these talk shows and how we're back to the same old thing where Republicans and Democrats,

Republicans and Democrats, that's all it is about is Republican and Democrats. When in fact, most of us out in the hinterlands are thinking to ourselves, no, it's about freedom. It's about our families. It's about being able to go to church. I think there are really four parties out there now. I think there's the hard left AOC progressive Democrats, party number one. I think there's the Josh Gottheimer, Joe Biden, before he became president, Scoop Jackson, Hubert Humphrey, middle of the road, Democrats, Party 2. Republicans, it's not so easy to divide, but I think you have the sort of mainstream Mitch McConnell, cultural Republicans, and then you have sort of the Donald Trump, stay out of foreign wars, leave me alone. This is not quite Ron Paul. It's not quite Thomas Massey.

It's not quite where I am, but it's a sort of stay out of my way version of the Republican Party. Would you agree with that breakdown? Most definitely. And in fact, I was talking about this with another guest this morning on the show who talked about how President Trump had this iniquity in that he was really kind of in the middle between an Obama outlook of the world and a Bush outlook of the world, where the Bushies never met a war they didn't like and the Obamas never met attacks they didn't like. And President Trump kind of had this freeing motion, as controversial as he was to some people, he kind of had this freeing motion with people because he started to talk a language that we hadn't heard before,

whether it be in support of certain gay rights. You know, for instance, the first time I ever heard a Republican talk about the LGBT community was on the floor of, in Cleveland. And I was like, wow, this is a unique guy here. And so I talked about the Republican national this is a unique guy here. We're talking about the Republican National Convention at which he was nominated. He had a freeing effect on a lot of people

as much as he also triggered a lot of people. I think that's where we are now. Heaven knows with this pandemic, we're wondering, even now with the gas prices, when is the first person going to tell us that we have to stop driving for two weeks to flatten the curve? You know what I mean? Interesting that you mentioned George W. Bush,

of whom I'm not a fan at all. I'm waiting for a television commercial which shows an advanced military slaughtering innocents and people running for their lives and presenting little resistance and saying, is this the Russians against Ukraine? No, it's the United States invading Iraq. Just as profound, just as immoral, just as monstrous. And was George W. Bush doing so under false pretenses? I got in a lot of trouble that my former employer once for suggesting that Bush and Cheney were war criminals because they brought us into an unjust war. They lied us our way into the war and they slaughtered innocents. It's the definition of a war criminal. Well, and this is where I said before, right at the beginning, Judge, you were

speaking in terms that we're finally only, a lot of us are finally only catching up to. There was a time when it was heretical to talk nastily about George Bush or even talk about the terribleness of the war. Now, my son served in the U.S. Army in Iraq in 2010. I'm as proud as it can be for him, and he is as proud as his service can be because he was called. And that was what duty called. But we still talk about that and very honestly about it being a mistake. But at the time you were saying it, probably the only person in on Fox News saying it because we were all kind of scared, like, oh, no, we're going to be called non-conservative or traitors or whatever. But finally, we learn. I think we've matured a lot through all of this. So the war in Iraq continues to haunt us. I wrote a piece, which comes up tonight,

which you have seen, about a poor fellow who was arrested in Pakistan and was tortured in Poland under the direction of American CIA and American psychologists. They tortured him for two and a half years before they concluded he's not Al-Qaeda and we tortured the wrong guy and he has no information for us and they shipped him to Gitmo and he's been locked up for 20 years. All of this was under the Bush regime. Why is it relevant today? Because he filed a criminal complaint against his torturers, and the court in Poland indicted the Polish intelligence agents who tortured him. The torture took place in 2002 during the Bush regime, when Bush authorized this.

When the Polish prosecutors tried to get evidence from the American DOJ, who were these people and what was the torture. The DOJ said it's a state secret. We can't reveal it. And earlier this week, the Supreme Court upheld that argument. The Supreme Court of the United States of America, with my libertarian buddy, Justice Neil Gorsuch, joining the liberals on the court to dissent, basically said, if you call torture a state secret, you don't have to talk about it or admit it. Oh my God, it's criminal. It's unconstitutional. It's profoundly immoral. It's against everything the United States stands for. This is what Bush authorized. This is what Bush produced. It is still haunting us today, Jamie. And back in the day, shamefully enough, because the eye wasn't turned on us, and we weren't the ones being tortured, and we weren't the ones in jail without trial or without

charges, we said, well, okay, they're terrorists, and anything to save our country or to secure ourselves and our country. Same thing we said when the powers that be wanted to find out about people's phone records and they go, and we always said, well, they're not going to go out. They're not looking for grandma. They're looking for the terrorists. Now, fast forward to 2022, we have a couple hundred people currently in a jail without bail, been there for more than a year, no trial yet, no nothing. And suddenly we're going, oh, okay, now we know how this operates. And now suddenly the gun, so to speak, are turned on us and we're finally catching on.

Some of those people, at least one of them, just back up a little bit, Jamie, wearing the same T-shirt, 1776, forever free. I didn't do it, FBI. Say again? I didn't do it. Just a message to the FBI. Judge Napolitano is going to represent me. I hope so. Some of those people engaged in crimes by trashing the Capitol building. Most of them were there to express political opinions. They've all been demonized by the government. Of course, it's a different government from the one they thought was going to continue. It's the Joe Biden government. I don't know where it's going to go. A friend of mine and yours who's in the mix of all this, Roger Stone, will be on in a couple of minutes. And I'm sure

he was there at the time. I'm sure he has some very strong opinions. But when the government gets in the business of suppressing speech because the government says the speech is hateful or was animated by hatred, that's a very dangerous time in our lives. The government should stay out of the business about suppressing or punishing speech or thoughts. We all have the right to think as we wish, to say as we think, and publish what we say. Well, and I'm not too far off in this insinuation about me being a potential target, because here's what happens. This was a legit group at the time, 1776, forever free. We held rallies all around the country prior to the election, after the election, everything else in support of freedom and candidates

who supported that. And the group sold a lot of t-shirts. And so who knows who was wearing this shirt, but boy, it just takes one to get arrested. And then suddenly anybody wearing this, or it just takes one to get arrested, and suddenly anybody even there in the vicinity is suddenly raided, or what have you. I noticed the Proud Boys leader had his home raided. It reminded me of the Roger Stone case, and he wasn't even there on January 6th. I don't know where any of that is going to go. There's been one conviction so far. The government offered him a guilty plea with two years in jail. He told the government to go take a hike. They tried him.

They had his two children testify against him. He was convicted. It's the only jury trial they've had so far. He's now exposed to 60, six zero years in jail. He wasn't even in the building. He never hurt anybody, but he had a gun on. He was wearing a bulletproof vest and he said he would like to see, I'm going to quote what he said. It's a quote. I'd like to see Nancy Pelosi's head rolling down the stairs. Now that's hate speech, but it's protected speech. But that shows what the government will do.

They will indict you for everything under the sun and then offer you what seems like a cut rate deal. If you don't accept the deal, you're now exposed to what for him would be a lifetime in jail. Total estrangement from his family. The kids who testified against him obviously no longer have a relationship with their father. Switching gears before I left you go. Another common person in our lives is Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke. Cardinal Burke was the Archbishop of St. Louis, had a very strong Catholic, extremely articulate spokesperson,

who was you. Yes. Cardinal Burke, as you know, I gave a talk at a fundraiser at a Catholic school outside New Orleans, or outside of St. Louis. I didn't know you were going to be there. You were there. And my fee, my honorarium, was two hours with Cardinal Burke. Well, he couldn't stop talking about you during those two hours and all the wars the two of you went through. Question. Pope Francis is unpopular, out of touch with Catholic tradition, and unwell physically. Does Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke stand a chance of wearing white?

It depends. I will tell you, I think he should stand a chance of wearing white. He is an extremely godly man. He is a person who really defends all lives in the church, not just a few who might adhere to his particular beliefs, canonical beliefs or otherwise. And having had the privilege and the honor of working for him, which was an amazing thing out of the blue, I was doing radio and television in St. Louis, they approached me to work for the Archbishop of St. Louis, and out of nowhere, I was an investigative reporter, and I just had a baby boy, and I have to tell you, though, you know, some people, they have a midlife crisis,

they buy a Camaro. I decided to work for Archbishop Raymond Burke, you know, so, but it was really a great year that I worked with him, for him, and I will tell you, I remember just in speaking to his godliness, I remember we would travel to places for a speaking engagement or to talk to the mayor or whatever, and in the car, it'd have to be complete silence. He's in the passenger seat, always saying the rosary. You were not to, you know, and, but that kind of focus, that kind of laser focus is what really is important in the Catholic church, especially when it comes to trying to keep the integrity of the church and its teachings solid. And unfortunately, in this day, the Pope is more like a Hollywood

cultural figure now than anything else. And so the more you kind of go off the deep end or stray from the parts of the Catholic church that are important, the more they love you. So who knows? We might have a correction. You never know. You know, I have never met the Pope, but I've been in the same room with him. A Methodist member of Congress from Kentucky, dear friend of mine, Congressman Thomas Massey, gave me a ticket to the House of Representatives gallery when the Pope addressed a joint session in Congress. It's about five or six years ago. And I happened to be seated in such a way that the Pope and I were making eye contact. In the gallery behind the Pope were many celebrities, including my dear friend,

Chris Christie, who at the time was the governor of New Jersey. And I could see him mouthing to me, how did you get that seat? Because Governor Christie is looking at the back of the Pope's head and the Pope and I are making eye contact. So Fox made sure that I was the first person on air. As soon as this was over, they had security there to rush me to the cameras and the cameras were ready for me. And they said, judge, what's your initial response? And I said, more LBJ than Fulton Sheen. Yeah, I love it. Well, you know, this was a pipe dream for me to expect. It would sound like Fulton Sheen. Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny you mentioned Congressman Massey to put a bow on

everything, because we talked about earlier about how people are starting to kind of find themselves untethered to these party instincts. Congressman Massey, along with Congressman Gosar and one other congressman, I believe from Indiana, were the only three to vote against this wide ranging bill that, that, that most Republicans voted for. It criminalizes hate is what it does. And it prosecutes people a second time who've already been convicted of the underlying crime in their States. Thomas Massey is the new Ron Paul and and he has the courage of 100 Tigers.

Jamie, we've got to go. I can't thank you enough for this. What a joy it is to see your face when I'm talking. I was supposed to have a receiver in my hand. Well, I love your voice. I love your face even more, my friend. And so hopefully we'll get together soon. I think the people watching this know why I enjoy Tuesday mornings so much.

Jamie, thank you very much for joining us. And my friends, if you haven't done so yet, we're on a subscription drive. Hit the button below and subscribe today, and you'll get that ping whenever wonderful people like Jamie Ullman come on the show as he did today. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. It's an honor. Thank you.