Judging Freedom - CAPT MATT HOH: Can Putin Be Trusted.

Episode Date: October 28, 2025

CAPT MATT HOH: Can Putin Be Trusted.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Today is Tuesday, October 28th, 2025. Matt Ho joins us now. Matt, a pleasure. My dear friend, thank you for joining us. I want to explore your understanding of the relationship between the United States and Russia and whether the neocons and the White House will actually trust President Putin. But before we do, some background questions, how can Washington and the stranglehold of neocons and Zionists possibly deal with European allies who don't want the war in Ukraine to end

because they think they can bleed Russia dry. Right. Well, thanks for having me back on, Judge. This is the conundrum. You have people in power, whether they be in the circle around Donald Trump throughout our Congress, certainly in our media spaces, but also in similar capacities in Europe, that just don't understand reality, that they're delusional, that they're so, whether it's their own arrogance, whether it's their vanglory, their simple-minded understanding of the world, their greed, whatever it is, they are continuing to pursue a ruinous policy that

day by day gets much worse, particularly for the people of Ukraine, but for the entire region, and perhaps the entire world. I mean, the escalation as war judge is just ghastly. Just today, I read two different reports, one concerning the Russians, one concerning the Ukrainians. Russian forces and be accused of using drones to attack civilians to drive them out of their homes, away from their villages, et cetera, using drones.

And the other story was about the Ukrainians attacking a Russian dam in Belgarod, you know, so inside of Russia. That's a war crime to attack civilian infrastructure. structure like that, particularly to cause deliberate flooding. And so these types of crimes are just going to continue to escalate, but it gets back to this understanding of who we have in power, both here in D.C., or excuse, both here in the U.S. and in Europe, these are people who simply don't care. They view that the war in Ukraine and the larger war against Russia is good for them, whether it be for political or economic or just ideological reasons.

So as long as Sebastian Gorka, Keith Kellogg, Pete Heggzeth, Marco Rubio, and our favorite senior senator from South Carolina keep whispering into Trump's ears, where are we going to get? Where are we going to go? Right. That's the big fear, right, Judge? This is really scary. We've been saying this for a while, just because our most dire predictions haven't come true yet, doesn't mean that they're not invalid. And so for an American to be sitting here and to say, you know, our hopes are resting upon the prudence and the patience and the wisdom and the maturity of another country, in this case, Russia, it's a really tough thing to utter, right? I mean, that we can't trust our leaders here, that they're going to do anything remotely resembling what's sensible, what's sound, what's moral, what's, what's, not counterproductive, right, and that we are relying on the Russians to be the ones who carry

that out. And we understand, though, too, that the Russians, the Russian leadership, which we almost always, not we, I know, you know, the folks you have on your show understand this, but the larger American commentary crowd tend to singularize Russia into one single man, which it's not. But the pressures on the Russian government, in this case, you know, person person personified as Vladimir Putin, are immense that this is a war that shouldn't have happened because Russia should have taken care of things fully in 2014. Instead of just taking Crimea, Russia should have taken the entire Dombos. Russia has been too slow in carrying out this war. It's not using the full force of its military to win this war. This is the pressure that's on the Kremlin. And so if we think that

any further pressure on Russia coming from the U.S. in West, the U.S. in Europe, no matter how anemic it is in its actuality, but just the pretense of it, the theater of it, is going to engender anything other than the same back from the Russians. We're diluted. But, you know, that seems to be our history. So what will it take for the U.S. government to recognize the legitimate national security needs of Russia. I mean, the fact that Russia doesn't want NATO long-range missiles in Ukraine is pretty basic. We wouldn't want Chinese long-range missiles in Mexico.

Right. And we're about to hear if things go terribly, if things continue to go in the wrong direction in South America and the United States does pursue military action against Venezuela, we're going to hear all kinds of complaints in the U.S. about the military equipment that Russia has sold Venezuela over the years, right? That their involvement in the Western Hemisphere is a direct, is a direct threat to our national security. I mean, this is pretty basic stuff. But to your question, Judge, about what's it going to take? I simply don't know.

I simply don't see anyone of any political significance in the United States. And I don't mean that to disparage a Tom Massey or Iran Paul, the few in Congress who actually have, you know, a thinking brain on this issue. But I just don't see any player of political significance of United States in the immediate future who's going to arise that will have the ability to pull the United States and Europe back from this continuing. you in catastrophe. Donald Trump was our best bet at that. And I believe he did, to his best abilities, try to carry out a peace deal, tried to get some type negotiated solution to the end of the war Ukraine. And he has been fluxomed by the Europeans, most especially. But as well, he has been done a great disservice by his own people. These are, we talked about this back in January, Judge. This was our concerns about those who are coming into the White House to be

his deputies was that they were going to allow President Trump to try and make peace. And when it didn't work right away, they're going to say, see, Mr. President, all the Russians understand their force, you know, it's admirable that you tried to get this done. But, you know, we have to pursue the force again. And so I think that's where we're at. It's insane, Judge, right, that we keep coming back to a Nobel Peace Prize, that Trump's really a desperate desire for the Nobel Peace Prize may be the reason why he continues against all those around him, against Rubio, Kellogg, Besant, Heggseth, Ratcliffe, whoever, those who are there,

like Tulsi Gabbard, who may have been some type of moderating force here, have been sidelined. So I am at a loss for this other than the hope that maybe Trump's desire for the Nobel Peace Prize is so great and so grand that he will press forward with trying to bring about an end of this war. I mean, you just had the new Japanese prime minister, Takashi, she just said she would put Donald Trump forward for the Nobel Peace Prize. So maybe that type of momentum will continue to spur his actions on this. I mean, McGregor's fed up with this and calls them all sycophants. They are.

both what the Japanese did to butter up President Trump today and yesterday. I don't know what day it is right now in Japan and what these neocons that he has appointed say to him when they speak to him each morning. The Guardian reports, this is just a few hours ago, that a Russian cargo plane, a quote, huge Russian cargo plane landed in Venezuela and Caracas. Now, what is likely in that plane, anti-aircraft? It very well could be. It could be advisors, could be technicians, maintenance people. It could be spare parts. It could be new radios.

It could be nothing. Russians could be extrading, taking out things that they don't want there when the Americans come in. Maybe it's doing both. But this coming war with Venezuela and the moving of the American aircraft carrier, the Ford and her battle group to the Caribbean. And in my opinion, more importantly, the movement of intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance assets, in particular the EC-135 rivet joint, which they have moved into the area. When you start seeing key assets like that, the EC-135 is our premier electronics warfare and signals intelligence aircraft. United States Air Force probably only has

10 or 12 operational at any time. So when you see those types of aircraft being moved, into areas, just like if we start seeing the United States start putting a heavy amount of search and rescue aircraft there or medical support in the region, say the USNS comfort, she moves down there, the hospital ship moves down there. That's when you know, when you see all these ancillary aspects of support to the operation, right? So whether it's high-end electronics and electronic intelligence or signals intelligence or medical support or what have you, that's when you know this is pretty serious. And so I think it were at this point.

At the same time, too, as I'm sure you saw, Judge, they expanded their strikes today against the boats, against these speed boats to not just the Eastern Pacific aside of Colombia, but it appears outside of Mexico. One of the boats that was hit, at least one of the boats that was hit that had a survivor, the Mexicans were the ones who rescued the person. So that means the strikes have now moved north near Mexico. So I think both things are possible, though. Both things are true that you can have both a desire for regime change that's being carried out,

as well as a desire just to continue the macho, tough guy, want to be as if they're in some type of Tom Clancy novel escapades of the Stephen Miller's of the Marco Rubios, both those can be true. It could be both the theater of killing drug runners with hellfire missiles or alleged drug runners with hellfire missiles, as well as the reality of a coming attempt at regime change. I don't know if this will make sense to you. It's military jargon, Russian 276 cargo plane with the tail number, R.A. 78, 765. Secretly landed in Caracas late evening, October 26th. That's Sunday. It's now Tuesday. The sanctioned aviacan Zetotrans tied to the Wagner Group arms, dodged radar from Moscow via Armenia, Algeria, Morocco,

Senegal. The cargo plane is tied to the Wagner group. I guess that group, even though the head of it is dead still exists and Putin can use it for, shall we say, extra legal or whatever clandestine behavior.

Sure. I mean, you would, if you were the Russians and this is how the Americans would do it, this is how I would do it if I was a consultant to the Venezuelans or the Russians or whoever, you use a third party like Wagner. You put your people into it who have experience, whether it have been in Syria, whether it's been the three

and a half years or even more than a decade-long war in Ukraine, if we're being honest about it, their experience in Africa. You send those people to Venezuela, one who have the best understanding of Western or American technology, how it's employed, you know, via the Ukrainians, but then also as well, those who have experience conducting insurgency campaigns. to conducting a terrain denial, urban warfare, resistance-type operations, which is how you would expect the Venezuelans to fight the Americans if the Americans actually came ashore that they wouldn't meet them head on in a conventional confrontation, but would rather take them on as an insurgency the way it's been successful against American forces, you know, pick your country.

So that's what you would expect is I would expect these Wagner forces to be doing if they're ever a training mission, but they could be maintenance. They could be technicians. There's a wide range of possibilities why they're there, but it certainly does make sense that they're there. And anyone who is looking at this, particularly if you're involved in this and you didn't anticipate this, well, you know, what can you say? You're not doing your job very well. Well, here's the Venezuelan Interior Minister yesterday, Ambassador Chaz Freeman, a friend and colleague of both of ours, says this is a person that's a sophisticated guy whom he knows. Chris, cut number one. I was on my way here just a moment ago, and they informed me about three people they captured at another location with CIA manuals, and they have no shame.

So they arrive and delete things from their phones because they think that. by deleting their phone, everything disappears. But no, those phones talk. They talk. And what we've discovered is truly pure gold. The CIA is connected to those sectors that hate Venezuela. We live in peace and security in this country, so please just leave us alone.

It is undoubtedly an act of aggression. aggression. These military exercises which they are currently conducting together with Trinidad are clear provocations. These actions have been denounced in the official statement that you are referring to. Any of this surprise you? No, no. There is a report, I think, from the AP judge, that one of these plots, I don't know if it was the plot being discussed here, involved the CIA trying to bribe Maduro's pilots, the guys who fly his plane to fly him someplace that the Americans could, you know, abduct him, could kidnap him. So to fly him to some friendly country, to Argentina, right, to Malay and arrest him there or something. And of course, that plot

didn't work. The Venezuelans have faced pressure in the terms of actual coups, sanctions, propped up opposition, all types of dirt. 30 tricks from the United States for the past 25 years, their counterintelligence is pretty good. It may not be as sophisticated and it may not be as gee whiz with its technology as the Americans are or other Western nations are. But if you've been in power for 25 years and you resisted the attempts by four different American presidents to overthrow you, then you've got a pretty sound ability to conduct your counterintelligence operations to protect yourself.

So again, something that people shouldn't be surprised. You also see the trade craft that the United States practices. You could a number of times pop in my head, whether it was the catastrophe about 15 years ago where the Iranians rolled up pretty much all of our agents, all of our assets, all of those working for us within Iran, whether the fact that the Italian police were able to arrest 15 CIA officers working in, in, as they could try to conduct, you know, illegal renditions, illegal kidnappings of people, you know, there's a bottom of themist list of horrible examples of American spy tradecraft. And so I think

what you're seeing here is that culmination. The Americans believe in their own mythology. They believe Hollywood. The CIA, A, believe is the best because that's what their storyline line has been for many decades. And the Venezuelans continue to do the hard actual work because they need to, because they are under pressure, they are under threat, and they have been now for the better part of, what, two generations. One more item on Venezuela, and then I want to jump to Trump and Putin. This is President Maduro yesterday saying the CIA is planning a false flag on a

U.S. ship docked in Trinidad, Chris, cut number two. Between Saturday night and yesterday Sunday at dawn, a number of arrests were made of what could be a group of mercenaries prepared and financed by the CIA, and all that led us to uncover the plan for a self-attack that the CIA was going to carry out against its military vessels that they had positioned off Venezuela in Trinidad and Tobago. That is what was intended with that ship they brought into Trinidad and Tobago, where unfortunately the Prime Minister Trinidad and Tobago is an neighbor and promoter war because of her own personal, physical, mental, and moral weaknesses.

Well, you know, on Thursday of this week, at 9 o'clock in the morning, the return to judging freedom of the former head of the CIA in Venezuela, Jack Devine. Oh. He very courageously offered to come on and discuss this. So we'll have a lot of questions for him. But what Maduro said doesn't surprise you, does it? No, no. Entire books have been written about American false flag operations, you know,

over the decades. So no, Judge. We should expect this to happen. And whether it's provocation that is so deliberate that it leads to an accident or it forces the Venezuelans to do something to which the Americans who then say, aha, look, they're threatening us to actual carrying out a campaign, you know, conducting some type of attack on American forces that would. be the equivalent of remember the main.

You know, the people recall that, you know. And that's what you're looking for. You're looking for some type of Casa's belly. You know, the best example is the Gulf of Tolkien, where, you know, as Dan Ellsberg, you know, said, he was there in the Pentagon when those occurred. Within hours of the supposed attacks occurring, the Pentagon knew that the attacks hadn't occurred. But everyone went along with it because this was our way. to get into the war. This is the way to get the war that we wanted. And so that's what we have to expect here as well. Do the Americans trust President Putin? No, no, I don't think they do.

I don't think they do. I think those who are in power, whether it's Congress or the executive, are so immersed in the storyline. They're so immersed in the characterizations, the narrative, You know, it's just the identity that the United States has hung on Putin for decades. You know, so I think it's, it's, it's, these people are so unable to see through anything that isn't what they're, you know, they're not able to see reality, Judge. You know, I'm struggling to explain this, but like, they, they just can't see reality. For so long they've heard these stories about Putin, the atmosphere in D.C. has been such for some. long that's dangerous to say anything otherwise. Both parties agree that Russia is a great enemy for them, the special interest, the donors behind the parties, they agree that Russia's

a great interest. So why break the storyline? Why go against the narrative? Why say, well, hang on a second. Maybe this isn't true about Putin or you know what? I know this is what's been said, but if we want to try to achieve anything, we have to trust the guy or at least make an attempt to trust the guy. Isn't it the same stuff that everyone said about the Soviets? in the 80s, why we couldn't talk to them, why Reagan was a fool to trust Gorbachev, isn't that the same stuff that I heard, you know, Judge, as a teenager, that you can't try, I mean, it's on NBC News, there's in the Wall Street Journal, just like now. You can't trust them.

So if Reagan do, he trusted them. And that's about the end of the Cold War. If Zelensky doesn't want to end the war or feels that he can't for fear that he's going to be assassinated, then it almost doesn't matter what, Trump and Putin agree to? As long as Zelensky has arms, whether they come from us or whether they come from the Europeans, right? Well, I think he looks at this way, too. Well, that's exactly right, Judge. He's looking at the fact that he's got this support from the Europeans. That seems to be limitless. That seems to be enduring until at least the next round of European elections, maybe.

But as long as he's got this leadership at the EU in Germany and Britain and France, Italy, other places that are willing to stand by him and promise him the ends of the earth without actually having a means to deliver it, they're going to go with it. And the same, I think, is the Ukrainian understanding of the American situation, that even if Trump throws his hands up in the air on this and says, enough, we're done, there's Americans are still going to provide support. It'll be washed or laundered through NATO and the Europeans, but it will still come, whether it's weapons we sell, which will partially be bought by the money that we put into NATO every

year. You know, I mean, this whole thing is so farcical. The United States is the largest contributor by far to NATO, and NATO is going to be purchasing these weapons. So essentially a good portion of the money used to purchase the weapons for Ukraine or American tax dollars laundered through NATO, right? So I think as well as you see the support, I mean, this bill that Graham and Richard Blumenthal from Connecticut, the Democrat, have in the Senate, supposedly has, what, 75 co-sponsors? So I think the idea is that it doesn't matter what Trump does. It's he vetoes our bill on sanctions.

If he vetoes any type of further funding, if he tries to obstruct us, we have a veto-proof majority in both houses to continue the support. And I think Trump has his own personal issues here. I think he feels disappointed or let down or betrayed by Vladimir. Putin. And so now if you're on the wrong side of Donald Trump in a person, you know, on a personal level, well, that's a bad place to be. So you could even see Trump saying, you know what, first of all, the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, they're going to forgive me for continuing this war against Ukraine. But you could also see him saying that, you know,

my friend betrayed me and now he has to pay a price for it. But this is Donald Trump's war now. He can call it Joe Biden's war all. he wants. Sure. Of course he can. You know, and he probably will. And he'll say it to his grave. You know, I mean, if this thing escalates to where the war expands in other parts of Europe, you know, expands in the World War III, Donald Trump to a deathbed will be calling it Joe Biden's war. I mean, that's just the reality of what we have to deal with this ban. The problem with that, and we could, we can smirk and make comments about it. But the problem is that he is the president of the United States. And if that's how he really views it, if he really does view it as him having clean

hands in all this, then, you know, again, our understanding, our analysis, our view of this situation has to be guided in some ways by the fact that we have a man who is incredibly irrational, incredibly temperamental, and who just won't accept the, you know, I think the word I've used 12 times in this interview so far has been reality. the reality of what has occurred. And so if he then gets to the point where he says, well, this is not my problem. This is Joe Biden's war.

All fault lies on him. Then that frees his hands up to do as he wishes. And so, again, a very, very dangerous place. Matt Ho, thank you very much, my dear friend. Great conversation. Great conversation. Very instructive and enjoyable. We'll look forward to seeing you next week.

All right. Thanks, Judge. All the best. Coming up at 3 o'clock today, Colonel Karen Koukowski, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.