Judging Freedom - Col. Douglas Macgregor: Does the US Have a Coherent Foreign Policy?

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

Col. Douglas Macgregor: Does the US Have a Coherent Foreign Policy?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, February 15th, 2024. Colonel Douglas McGregor joins us now. Colonel, welcome back to the show. Always a pleasure, my dear friend. Over the weekend, Colonel, the Senate of the United States passed and sent on to the House of Representatives a foreign aid package, which includes money for Taiwan and Israel. But I want to talk to you right now about the $61 billion it includes for Ukraine. I understand that some of this is cash,

which must be spent in 2025 by whoever is president from and after January 20th, 2025, an interesting constitutional loop. But a lot of it, of course, is equipment. A question, how depleted is the Ukraine military? And of what value would this kind of aid be, even if it does pass the House and is signed by President Biden? Well, to answer your question, keep in mind that much of what is being promised with the $61 billion will, in fact, not arrive for well over a year, maybe longer. We are not sending things that we already have on hand. We're sending things that we have to build. Our stocks are very, very low. We've sent about everything we can, so have the Europeans.

So I don't think this has as much to do with Ukraine as most Americans think. Certainly, it's helping to maintain the facade that there is a viable government in Kiev that exerts some control over the country I don't think it really does any longer I think things are really simply falling apart the military leadership is composed of people who are planning what I would call Vengeance attacks uh use missiles drones whatever they can find to harm Russians primarily inside Russia and then they're being helped harm russians primarily inside russia and then they're being helped with by the sas on the british side and others to launch the kinds of attacks you saw down in the black sea none of them make any difference none of them are going to

change anything so the the first point to take away from this is most of this money is designed to enrich donors and keep assembly lines humming which obviously is good for constituents doesn't do anything for the united states per se uh i don't think it's helpful to us in the least as strategically it's self-defeating but it keeps uh the europeans in the game so to say as long as they stay in power that is the globalist neocon elites and it keeps us in the game as you point out but none of it's going to work none of it's going to make any difference between now and then the debt grows our position weakens financially nothing good comes from it here's uh here's the neocon position that this will irritate you, but not surprise you, I'm sure. It's a clip from

Senator Mitt Romney on the floor of the Senate shortly before the vote on Sunday evening. If we fail to help Ukraine, Putin will invade a NATO nation. He may delay his next invasion until he rebuilds his decimated military. But we must be clear-eyed. Ukraine is not the end. It is a step. If we fail to help Ukraine, China will eventually absorb Taiwan. If we fail to help Ukraine, NATO, the alliance that's prevented great power conflict for over 75 years, will falter and eventually disintegrate. If that is the understanding, I'm not even going to talk about which party, although he's a Republican, or at least nominally. If that is the understanding of the Congress, it is totally divorced from reality, is it not?

Oh, I'd say so. The thing I most admire about Mitt Romney is his choice of suits, ties, the way he looks, how carefully his hair is managed. I mean, the man always looks tremendous, but he can't say anything without notes in front of him. And he's always reading from something that someone else wrote for him. I don't know what the man actually believes. It's all nonsense. It sounded to me like a more eloquent version of LBJ telling everyone that if we fail in South Vietnam, the Chinese and the Russians are going to march into Malaysia and all the way to Australia. It's sort of ridiculous. But how, what is the significance of firing General Zaluzhny

and hiring his replacement, the one they call, forgive me, his name is escaping me, Sarsky. Seriously. The one that his own troops refer to as the butcher of Bakhmut from the way apparently he has treated his own men. You know, this is a strange one. As I understand it, Zirsky's family actually lives inside Russia. His family is not living in Ukraine. Not all of it, but a substantial portion of it. So that's the first odd dimension to this whole thing. Second thing is I'm told that he's really an instrument of MI6 in London and to a lesser extent the CIA. And Zelensky is running out of people who are loyalists, running out of anybody who's willing to follow his insane orders. And since the army itself is being rendered incapable of serious combat, thanks to all the casualties and losses i think we're dealing with generals who are going to sign up for what i talked about earlier these pointless attacks where the objective is to simply kill russians harm russians destroy russian infrastructure so i

i think that's about it uh how long is this going to last? Well, you've got to go back to Tucker's interview, and I think if there's one criticism I have for Vladimir Putin, one serious one, is that he's somewhat naive. I think he still believes that there's someone somewhere who's going to sign an agreement and help him end this war. I don't think that's going to happen. So how does the war end when the government totally and completely collapses and there's no place for American aid to go? Yeah, I think what President Putin has got to decide is how much longer he wants to wait for change in Europe. I mean, I'm still baffled by the fact that the same stooges are in charge in Berlin.

If there's one place that should have changed quickly, it's Berlin. But the Germans have demonstrated that they're willing to endure tremendous deprivation and harm to their own country under the leadership of this government. So, you know, until that happens, I don't know who Putin's going to talk to. The government in Poland right now is kind of an EU transplant. I think there's a higher probability of that being removed in Poland before the Germans finally wake up and remove the people in Berlin. So I don't know what he's going to do. I think he's going to have to make a decision. Do I continue to waste time on this battlefield with the remnants of the Ukrainian military because I don't want to kill people, because he really doesn't, or do I just march to the Dnieper and then prepare to cross it and go into Kiev? Now, we all know that the plan is to leave Kiev and go to Lvov in western Ukraine, but at least that robs this government of any last remaining shred of credibility or

legitimacy because they can't defend themselves and they have nothing with which to resist the Russians. So I think that's one way it could end. I don't see too many others because it's very obvious that we're not going to talk to him. And Judge, you know, as we've said before, why would Moscow listen to anything we said? Right. Well, you remember what he said, what President Putin said to Tucker when he asked him if he would call Joe Biden. Do we have that clip, Chris? Watch this. And so why don't you just call Biden and say, let's work this out? What's there to work out?

It's very simple. I repeat, we have contacts through various agencies. I will tell you what we are saying on this matter and what we are conveying to the US leadership. If you really want to stop fighting, you need to stop supplying weapons. It will be over within a few weeks. That's it. And then we can agree on some terms.

Before you do that, stop. What's easier? Why would I call him? What should I talk to him about? Or beg him for what? And what messages do you get back? You're going to deliver such and such weapons to Ukraine? Oh, I'm afraid, I'm afraid, please don't. What is there to talk about? I thought that was a great answer,

but you'll notice whose name he didn't mention is Vladimir Zelensky. The war will be over when Joe Biden picks up the phone. There's nothing Zelensky can do about it. Your thoughts on what we just saw, Colonel? Well, he knows that Zelensky is a puppet. Zelensky is many things, but he's not a total fool. And that's why he was ready to sign up for that agreement that we went out of our way to crush with the help of Boris Johnson.

And remember, I think Zelensky was told privately by everyone that spoke to him, whether it was Lindsey Graham or anybody else from Washington, D.C. or London, you stick with us, we'll provide you with everything, you will have the entire scientific, industrial, military might of NATO and the United States behind you. You cannot lose. I think he bought it and decided to stick it out. And it was very obvious to him when he came back to the United States

on more than one occasion to discover that whatever he thought he was going to get, he's not going to get. And there's not much that we can do for him. You can't build armies on the fly. We've talked about that. That's absurd nonsense. But can President Zelensky really enter into negotiations without fear of an assassination from the Banderites and the Nazis and his own military and security staff? Well, I thinkish have done probably the the best job of securing his life he's got british special ops types around him so i think that's his that's

his ticket to survival at the moment uh will somebody get through and and remove him i have no idea i have frankly expected a general officer or two from inside the Ukrainian army watching the debacle to finally step forward and say, that's it. Turn his force around and march on Kiev. It hasn't happened. I suspect they too are on the take. Everybody in Ukraine swims in a sea of corruption. Everyone is benefiting except the Ukrainian people so I think the generals and the Colonels are probably going to go along with this until somebody stops

paying them uh let's uh switch gears over uh to the Middle East uh you and I emailed each other earlier today about the significance of the meeting in Cairo between Turkish President Erdogan and Egyptian President al-Sisi. What do you think they talked about and maybe agreed to? They were together for two days. I think it's important for Americans to know that they have not really had government-to-government discussions and relations for 13 years. If you go back 13 years ago, you discover that we and the British, and but I think more importantly, the Israelis, worked together to ensure that Mr. Morsi, who was legitimately elected, did not become president of Egypt. He was regarded as a Muslim Brotherhood member,

an Islamist, and potentially dangerous to Israel, and certainly unwilling to do the bidding of the United States. So we did everything in our power to bring General Sisi into office, where he's resided ever since. This has been very problematic for Sisi because although he wants to be thought of as an Egyptian nationalist and as an Egyptian patriot, he has this baggage, which is not very good. Now, President Erdogan strongly supported Morsi. President Erdogan leads the Muslim Brotherhood in North America and de facto in the Middle East. He is seen as its head now he's finally buried the hatchet with Morse or excuse me with uh CC and CC's buried the hatchet with him why would they do this now well there are two things both of them have an interest in sorting out the access to oil and

natural gas in the Mediterranean particularly in regard to events in Libya remember we destabilized Libya caused a terrible civil war. Lots of people have been killed. Lots of fighting has taken place. They realize that this fighting needs to end and a peaceful solution needs to emerge in Libya. So that's a long-term issue. But something else has happened, and that's the campaign in Gaza. Egypt is now in a very, very delicate and vulnerable position because the Egyptians have made it clear that if the Israelis attack Rafah and they go into the so-called Philadelphia corridor, the space between Gaza and Egypt, which under the treaty that reaches back to the 73 war, is ultimately their responsibility. That is Egypt's responsibility. If that is somehow or another violated by the Israelis, technically that's regarded as an act of war. On the other hand, the Egyptian spokesman and the foreign minister have come

out and said, well, we haven't said we'll go to war. That's not quite what we mean. And now we have this pending ground defense of on Rafa, which everybody recognizes, as King Abdullah and Jordan pointed out, that's going to kill tens of thousands of people. We don't know how many people it will kill, but could kill 100,000. You already have a half a million people that are on the verge of starvation. You have huge problems with water purification, disease. This is just, quote unquote, icing on the cake that's going to make life there that much more terrible. He wants to do something, but he doesn't want to do it on his own. And I'm quite certain that he and President Erdogan spoke about this in great detail.

Erdogan, I suspect, has told Sisi, we will stand by you. We will support you. We'll see. Mr. Erdogan was the gentleman at the final press conference who talked about Gaza. And he was very clear in his condemnation of what the Israelis have done and had really warned them against doing more of it. Sisi said nothing about it publicly. He stood on the side and watched. So remember, Turkey is the de facto leader of the Sunni Muslim world in military terms and increasingly in political terms. So I think some agreements

were reached in private in April, and April-May timeframe is when some of your listeners will remember that I predicted that you would see this begin to take on the dimensions of a true regional war. Sisi and Erdogan will meet in Turkey. We'll see where we are then. But I think this is the beginning of a coalescing alliance across the region. And I have not heard this anywhere but from you. The mainstream media just acts like this was a social meeting between them. I thank you for the insight that you have given us. Do you

honestly think that the Egyptians and the Turks would use military might to resist or repel the IDF from Gaza, particularly if it kills another group of 10,000 or 20,000 people? It's already killed more than 30,000. As we've said before, Judge, no government in the region except Israel wants a war. None of the governments do in the Islamic world, particularly the Arab states whose societies are fragile. They understand what a war with Israel would mean because it probably involves us. And they're looking at serious damage to the infrastructure that will be very difficult to rebuild. So the governments, that is the ruling elites, don't want a war. The problem is their populations do. When I say they want a war, what I'm saying is that the populations are enraged. Somebody sent me a note recently from

Cairo and said, well, there aren't hundreds of thousands of people in the street. But he said no one here has stopped talking about Gaza. And everyone here is in agreement that Israel has to be removed from the map. If it isn't, they threaten the very existence of everyone in the region. Now, this is a change. Sure, we've always had blowhards that said things about, well, we'll wipe Israel off the region. Now, this is a change. Sure, we've always had blowhards that said things about, well, we'll wipe Israel off the map when we don't want this or that. This is not the same thing. This is a growing consensus in all of these states that something must be done about Israel. This is why I've worried from the very beginning, and I was very opposed to this,

because I want Israel to survive. I'm afraid that they won't. assaults that Joe Biden ordered in the past two weeks and retaliation for the death of three Georgia National Guardsmen and the injury of 42 others? I think we've done much more than that. I think our failure to exert any real influence in Israel over the Israeli leadership to do anything differently. In fact, we've doubled down and increased our support, not just military support, but also monetary support for the Israeli economy. All of these things send a message to everyone in the region that we have no moral turpitude, that we have no use for Arab life, no use for Muslim life. That's the unambiguous signal. So I think our position in the region is in serious trouble. I think you're going to see

Jordan, Egypt, along, you've already got Iraq and Syria that want us out of their countries. We've decided to ignore it. In fact, there's a lot of evidence that we're building a large base at Erbil in northern Iraq that could serve as the future concentration point for U.S. military power in the region as we withdraw from lower Iraq. So I think it's the only thing that the 85 targets did was reinforce what everybody thinks, which is that we are Israel's staunch ally, but more important, we're going to do whatever the Israelis want us

to do. I think it's finishing us in the Muslim world in the Middle East. Will any amount, now I'm going to prevail upon your astute brain for American politics, not Republican or Democrat, but your thumb on the pulse of the public. Will any amount of Israeli horror change American public opinion? For example, in the past week, we have seen on video a Palestinian captive tortured by an IDF person with Israeli civilians watching and filming it. They all claimed that he was a Hamas leader, but then, of course, they let him go. If he was a Hamas person, they're not going to let him go. We have seen Itamar Ben-Gavir, the head of the Israeli security forces,

roughly the equivalent of the director of our CIA, saying any women, any Palestinian women or children who get too close to the border of Gaza and Israel should get a bullet to their heads. And we have seen also on tape, Israeli IDF motioning Gaza ambulance drivers, it's okay to pick up these people that we just shot, and then when they get out of the ambulance, they get assassinated, murdered on the streets. Does any of this rebut or weaken the iron grip that AIPAC has on the Congress? Not really. First, most Americans aren't engaged. They're not watching carefully. Secondly, the mainstream media is deeply ingrained with support for Israel. They're not going to show most of these pictures or film footage that you're referring to. They're

certainly not going to talk about it at any length so I don't think much of that information is going to reach very many people the one thing that disturbs Americans right now and with good reason by the way is the massive amount of money in this bill that is headed overseas to Ukraine to Israel and to Taiwan and they're wondering why nothing is being done about the border why is nothing being done to enforce our federal laws? Why is nothing being done to stop the criminality in our cities? Why do they wake up every morning and find that people that have shot at policemen or raped other people are suddenly being released back into the general population?

That's where Americans are focused. They're very, very focused on the border right now, much more so than they are in anything happening overseas. So I think the short answer to your question is no, this is not going to change anything in the short run. I thought of you this week. I don't live too far from a special congressional election on Long Island, a district that is sometimes Republican, but sometimes Democrat in terms of the member of Congress. It's George Santos' district. The Republicans picked a former IDF fighter, a female, who was born in Ethiopia and is now an American citizen. The Democrats picked a moderate Democrat who sounded like Governor Abbott of Texas on the border.

And guess what? He triumphed by 10 points. So you have your finger on something there, Colonel. I want you to watch the King of Jordan speaking in front of Joe Biden. Tell me if you think Joe Biden expected to hear this, if the King said what Joe wanted to say, or if Joe even understood what he was hearing.

Nearly 100,000 people have been killed, injured, or are missing. The majority are women and children. We cannot afford an Israeli attack on Rafah. It is certain to produce another humanitarian catastrophe. The situation is already unbearable for over a million people who have been pushed into Rafah since the war started. We cannot stand by and let this continue. We need a lasting ceasefire now. This war must end. We must urgently and immediately work to ensure the sustainable delivery of sufficient aid to Gaza through all possible entry points and mechanisms. And I thank you, Mr. President, for your support on this. Restrictions on vital relief aid and

medical items are leading to inhumane conditions. Biden can't say that uh because of the iron grip that APEC has on him and everybody around them I suppose so we pay lip service to aid but we know the aid will not reach the people because the Israelis aren't going to admit the aid to Gaza. We're sort of fantasizing in two different directions. On one hand, we're fantasizing we're helping Israel to defend itself, but obviously this is far beyond self-defense. On the other hand, we're insisting that we support aid for the people of Gaza who are suffering, but we know it's not going to get there.

The whole thing is a travesty. It's tragic. And before this is through, I'm sure another 100,000 people at least will lose their lives, maybe more. Just a question or two about King Abdullah. Is he a real king, a real and total monarch, or is he a figurehead like Charles III in Great Britain? And what kind of a military does he have, and would he ever use it? No, he's the real thing. He actually leads his country, and he controls the reins of power. He guides the parliament. He respects the parliament. He discusses with his advisors and members of parliament, but he is the king. He has been devoted to peace with Israel to the point where he's held together a population that on the one hand is descended from the original inhabitants, which we would call originally Bedouin tribesmen, and also to millions of palestinians who have

fled into his country from israel that's not an easy task right now the palestinians who are there would like to arm up cross the river and fight with their brethren in the west bank against israel they know what's happening in the west bank they know what's happening in the West Bank. They know what's happening in Gaza. He does have a good military. It's obviously a little smaller than what we would call a Marine Corps, and although it has more armor than the Marines do, but he's not in a position to take on the Israeli Defense Force alone, and I don't think he wants to. I think he recognizes that if war breaks out like that, it'll be regional in a very short period of time. But I think he and the president of Egypt are both on the verge of breaking their relations with us.

And there are lots of people in Washington who say, well, that won't happen. But the same people in Washington that insist that there will be no regional war that nothing will happen to disrupt israeli operations in gaza or anywhere else that the entire region will stand by while hundreds of thousands of people are slaughtered or also in most cases the same people that told me there would be no war in eastern ukraine and that the russians would never dare to enter Ukraine because if they did they would fail miserably, their economy would be destroyed,

and Mr. Putin would be removed from power. So those two groups are the same. My position is very different. I think this is the most dangerous point in the region's history for hundreds of years, but particularly in the last 70 years for Israel. There is by no means any certainty that Israel will come out of this victorious, safe, secure, and whole. In other words, the very thing that they are striving to achieve, which is perfect security for their population, is the last thing that they'll get, if any. Before we go, I just want to show you something for humor or mockery. I hope that someday you become the Secretary of State of the United States, the Secretary of Defense. And if you do, when you retire, I don't think you'll behave like the dancing Pompeo. That, of course, is Mike Pompeo, the former director of the CIA

and the former Secretary of State of the United States under President Trump, dancing with IDF soldiers who are celebrating God only knows what at one of the relief stations made available to them. I don't know the significance of this flag or scarf put on his shoulders, but there he is, Colonel. I guess for domestic American political purposes, why else would you look so foolish? Well, give the man credit. He's lost a lot of weight. Yes, he has. I will give him credit for that.

He's not as plump as he once was. Now, he doesn't seem to be very fast on his feet. He has trouble with rhythm and so forth. It looks a little lost there. He's being dragged around the dance floor. Look, this is signaling, you put me into power and I will make sure that I give everything there is and more to Israel and more important, I will see to it that it's defended with the lives of American soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines in perpetuity. He understands something that we've heard before routinely, and that is that donors win elections, not voters. Unfortunately, that's what we've discovered over the last 20 years pretty consistently, don't you think?

Yes, I do think that's the inescapable lesson of American politics in the post-World War II era. Colonel McGregor, it's a pleasure. Thank you for having me. I know we went over time a little bit, but thank you very much for your time and for your thoughts and for your analysis, as always. Sure. See you in the future. Of course. All the best.

Truly one of the finest interviews I've been privileged to conduct. And another one coming up at 4.15 Eastern, the inimitable Max Blumenthal. Judge Napolitano for judging freedom. Thanks for watching!