Judging Freedom - COL. Douglas Macgregor : Does Trump Understand the Russians?

Episode Date: August 7, 2025

COL. Douglas Macgregor : Does Trump Understand the Russians?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, August 7th, 2025. My dear friend and great friend of the show, Colonel Douglas McGregor, joins us now. Colonel McGregor, of course, you need no introduction. Thank you very much for joining us. I want to talk to you about what is the issue of the moment, whether President Trump and President Putin are going to get together. and ultimately your view about whether President Trump understands the Russians and understands President Putin.

But before we do, some other issues that I need to raise with you, a few months ago when President Trump, as a favor of Prime Minister Netanyahu, ordered the Pentagon to bombard the Houthis, a bombardment that Secretary of Defense, Hegeseth called a splendid victory. It ultimately ended in no movement on the part of the Houthis at all. But that's not my question. Did the U.S. dangerously deplete a certain category of missiles which were used by the Pentagon in that fruitless attack? I think we've dangerously reduced our arsenal of missiles, period, not just the ones who were used in that attack. And, of course, you're referring to the article that we discussed earlier today,

or at least I think I sent it to you. Yes. And what this article reveals is that, you know, we're woefully behind in the production capacity of all these missiles. They were talking about the SM2 Block 3, which is actually an SM6 missile now. We can produce, we think, roughly five to 600 a year. if you're going to do the kinds of things we are doing,

if you're going to risk war, all-out war with anybody today who has any military capability at all, you need to have a production capacity that is 10 times 600. And that's just the SM series missiles. We haven't even talked about the Patriot missiles. All of our missile production is very limited, and we have done nothing to fundamentally change that. And this is not a new problem.

And that's part of what was in that article. We have flag officers, in other words, admirals in the Navy and generals, I think, in the Army and the Air Force, all of whom should be held accountable for the dire straits that we are in with regard to the production of these missiles. Because they're the ones that over the last 30 years have been in a position to change this outcome. And they haven't done it. And, of course, then you have the Missile Defense Agency, which is another culprit. We've spent an awful lot of money. We don't know where it went.

We're not sure what we are getting for it. So the whole thing is a disaster, frankly. And if we are drawn back into the war again with Iran, which I suspect we will be, well, then it's going to be even more acute then because we haven't been able to make up the shortfall that we've ended up with at this point. How, I don't want to get too deep into this, but how much of our supply of missiles for our own national defense has been depleted by this folly in Ukraine? Well, that's been an enormous strain on us.

That's why the joke that came out as soon as we announced that we were going to have another package that President Trump was going to sign off on, that's in addition to the $55 billion that's currently under discussion, the joke was, well, nothing will show up for at least a year with regard to Patriot missiles and radars. And when it does, you'll end up with 17 minutes, if you're lucky, of air and missile defense. In other words, you just don't have the density of missiles that you absolutely need if you're going to provide any effective point defense, not area defense, point defense. In other words, you can't defend Ukraine, but you can defend certain points. Well, right now we can't even do that.

And then when you start talking about a potential conflict with Russia, I think the NATO study that came out last year is still unchanged, and that is that we can defend perhaps 5% of NATO territory against air and missile attack from Russia. Well, that's nothing, Judge. This is all absurd. That's why the threats that we've been making are utterly foolish and empty. If President Trump and Secretary Hegeseth unleash this foolish General Donahue to take Kalenigrad, what will happen in response to the American troops in Europe? That's Russian national sovereign territory, so we have to assume that that would be regarded as an active war against the Russian state.

If you pay attention to what's happened over the last few weeks in Belarusia, there is a, an effective unification underway between russia proper and bila russia unification in the sense that be the russian citizens there are only eight million of them but they can now vote in elections that uh occur inside russia they can hold office inside russia in words effectively be the russian citizens are being given all the rights and privileges of russian citizenship in return for this you have these orrishnik missiles that are also deployed on bila russian soil that means that right now in areas that are just west of minsk they can launch missiles against germany which would be undoubtedly one of the targets given the numbers of forces

we have in that country that would be impossible to stop because they're hypersonic and they would arrive within a few minutes in other words you're no longer rushing or launching from russian territory you're launching from western bila russia so that the idea that you're going to successfully overrun and take East Prussia called Kaliningrad now is absurd. It's not going to work out that way. Frankly speaking, I don't know of any operation in modern military history where somebody said, we're going to attack this enclave that is heavily defended and we'll take it within the space of a day or two. I mean, it's just sort of absurd to even make such a statement. So I think it's nonsense. I think it was a bluff, frankly, and a very ill-consum.

Sittered Bluff. And I don't know why the White House permitted it. You know, I'm assuming that the White House and Hengseth knew it was coming. If they didn't, then one wonders why Donnie, he was still on active duty. But that's another issue. Well, they must have known of it because they didn't rescind it. They didn't neuter it. Yeah, I think this is back to something else that we've discussed repeatedly, the judge. President Trump is someone who believes threats and bullying work. I think this is the product of his New York City life experience and the real estate market. And, you know, frankly, if you look at the White House right now and the people running things and surrounding Trump, it looks like the New York City delegation is running our country. So it may be that everyone is of one mind, that threatening and bullying is an inherently good idea and that it works.

I don't see any evidence for that. And I think it's very dangerous, particularly with Russia. but I suspect that that may be the mentality at work. Well, before we get to Russia and President Putin and President Trump, your friend and colleague, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, agreed with his friend and colleague, Colonel Bill Atore, that the United States is a failing, flailing empire. do you agree with that characterization well the administration is flailing and i think they are

ultimately failing right now and that's that becomes more and more evident with each passing day and you can go across the range of issues there is no strategy for rounding up uh evaluating and expelling illegal aliens there's nothing going on there i mean the stuff that happens is all impulse driven uh i see no evidence for a serious effort to deal with a problem on a national level that's one example you can go through a number of them but i think when it comes to our overseas presence everything is impulse driven with president trump there is no strategy there i have never detected any strategy when he took over his president i think he's behaved as he has in the past now i'm in charge everybody has to do what i say these are my

ideas we're going to go forward and implement them and when he runs into opposition he usually backs down, then he tries something else. In other words, there is no coherent strategic framework that guides the application of military power or a national industrial policy. You see the same thing with the tariffs. Everyone who opposes me and what I want to do to Russia will have to face 100% tariffs. Then they suddenly back down and say, no, only 25% tariffs. Well, the next question is why tariffs at all well we're going to punish you india which with whom we've had friendly relations for a long time that is known to have good relations with russia in fact india is is a state you would turn to for help and assistance in communicating your your desires your

goals and interest to russia it's not a state that i would offend or alienate but that's what we've done and so mr modi has said thank you very much we're not interested go fly a kite the Japanese have said, we're going to buy all the oil and gas we won from Russia. It's all part of the same thing. There is no coherent strategy with attainable political military objectives. None. A few minutes ago, President, or Prime Minister, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu announced that it is now the public policy of Israel to use the IDF to occupy the Gaza Strip. if he asks President Trump, and President Trump orders American troops on the ground to help Netanyahu, troops not there to feed Palestinians, but to kill them, what do you think Secretary Hegg-Seth will do, and what do you think he should do?

Well, he'll implement the order. Everyone in Washington will. Do we have to go back over President Netanyahu's five standing ovations in front of Congress? I mean, who is in charge here? Let's wake up and smell the proverbial coffee. President Netanyahu, excuse me, Prime Minister Netanyahu is in fact, when it comes to these matters, President of the United States. He's in charge. Now, the question is, what do you do if you're in uniform and you're being ordered to do something that you regard as atrocious? as contravening, you know, basic law of war and humanity.

That's another matter. I mean, I'm sure that somebody somewhere in Army or Marine uniform, whether they're special operations or not, would have some questions on that subject. But as far as the people at the top, they're all owned. They owe everything to the lobby. They are going to do what they're told. Let's get to the issue of President Trump and Putin meeting and the conditions under which

they're meeting. Yesterday, President Trump signed an executive order, characterizing the Russian Federation as posing a material threat to the national security of the United States. Isn't this absurd? Senate, in fact, General Donahue is Exhibit 1, the other way around. Well, look, I, you know, Judge, my views, but we have to understand something. And this has happened before when President Trump was in his first term. Have the critical findings at the Central Intelligence Agency changed since he became president?

You know, these findings essentially say, who is a threat, who is not a threat, why is it a threat? that it's very carefully detailed in its analysis and foundation. Well, the answer is nothing has changed since President Trump became president the second time. All those findings are intact. So no, that's utterly ridiculous. And I think privately, President Trump probably feels that way. But he lacks the strength. He lacks the self-confidence, the conviction to step away from that and say, well, that's ridiculous.

us know. And we have no interest under any circumstances in going to war with Russia or for that matter, China. There's no interest on our part strategically in doing so. In fact, we have a strong interest in coming to some sort of agreement with Russia that avert any conflict at all. But he's not there. That's not what he's going to do. So he is once again conformed to what the status quo dictates, which is the status quo he did not create, but nevertheless, he's subordinate to. Why would President Putin negotiate with President Trump while he is funding a war against Russia, while American intelligence agents are arming missiles and other projectiles trying to kill Russian troops? Donald Trump kills the people. He's been negotiating.

with just ask the Iranians well he's picked that habit up from Netanyahu who kills most of his negotiating opposites look I think we have to understand a couple of things the Russians have always been receptive to the idea of talking to us or let's go back to the Biden administration it was not the Russians who refused under any and all circumstances to speak to president Biden or his administration far from it we were the ones that said no we will not talk to you we are morally superior to you you are bad and because you are bad we can't talk to you this is sort of sort of standard leftist nonsense president trump came into office and the russians made it very clear that they're quite willing to talk to him so this is

this is not new by any stretch of the imagination however the question is is what is the purpose of the meeting the russians aren't fools they know how president trump thinks and behaves president trump is very short term in his uh horizon he's not looking long term at anything president trump thinks in terms of i got to get a win well you know i got to be the guy that wins i have to dominate this they know that so the real question is why are they bothering to meet with him we don't know what president trump has privately said because the russian position is very well known. It's not going to change. Now, there are things that we can do that can accommodate them, and there are things that they could do that could accommodate us,

particularly if we're willing to look at a larger strategic picture. And the Russians, if you go back to 2021, before the intervention even began in February of 2022, they set some proposals to us. And if you look at these proposals, they're about the security architecture of Europe. And now I think the Russians would be interested in talking not only about the security architecture in Europe, but also in the Middle East and Southwest Asia, because we are busy on their southern border now, along with the Israelis, trying to create havoc and chaos in Azerbaijan and elsewhere. So I think they're interested in the larger strategic picture. What are we interested in? I think President Trump is interested in a meeting that makes a hero

out of President Trump, where he can stand there and say, well, I have brought together Zelensky and Putin and we've made peace. Now, it's not going to happen. The Russians are going to talk to Zelensky. They don't consider him remotely legitimate, nor should they. The question is, what is President Trump one? And he says he won Zelensky president. And as far as I know, in this back and forth over the last several hours, the Russians have said

absolutely not. And he said, well, if Zelensky is not going to be there, then I can't meet with you. which of course is absurd because remember Zelensky along with this war in Ukraine judge is not his war Selensky isn't necessarily his man in fact I'm still trying to figure out

why President Trump didn't stand up grabbed Selensky with a scrup of his neck and throw him out of the Oval Office when he was over here but I'm at a loss to figure out what's going on with President Trump except to understand it in basic terms he's a reality

TV guy. He is a brilliant marketer, and he wants a meeting that's going to make him look great and his administration look great. The problem is I'm not sure he's going to get what he wants because the Russians are substantive. They're looking for a real outcome. And I think it's the larger strategic architecture that is of greatest interest to them because, frankly, from the Russian standpoint, this war in Ukraine is grinding to a very slow halt. And when it ends, it's going to end on their terms anyway. So there's not a whole hell of a lot to negotiate. Our friend and colleague, Scott Ritter, says that President Putin has reduced his six demands to end the conflict down to two. The first is that Ukraine will acknowledge that the four Donbuss areas in eastern Ukraine are Russia, the military will leave.

The Ukrainian governmental apparatus that remains will leave. and the second is that the remainder of Ukraine will have nothing whatsoever to do with NATO. How could President Zelenskyy agree to that? He'd never make it back to Kiev alive. Well, I think if it were up to a Ukrainian leader of Ukraine, a genuinely legitimate Ukrainian, an agreement could be reached. They may not like it, but the Ukrainian people want this war to end. There's no one about that. Zelensky is never going to acknowledge the legitimate control of anything in eastern Ukraine by the Russians.

So that's the first thing. So that's an absolute non-starter. Secondly, Ukraine has to be demilitarized. That is, whatever remains of this Ukrainian state, what we call rump Ukraine. And I'm not sure that the current Ukrainian leadership is prepared to go along with that either. I'm unconvinced that there are only two demands, though. I listened to translated, of course, comments by Ushikov this morning, who was speaking for the government. I did not get the impression that all but those two demands had been brushed aside.

So I'm a little skeptical of that. Well, make it even more difficult for there to be any kind of an agreement. Do you get the impression? I do, and my impression is from a Russian talk show called The Great Game, on which I appeared a few hours ago. And one of my questioners was a former general who, the head of the Russian military intelligence, who's now a Russian senator in the upper house of their legislature. They're of the view that after President Putin told Mr. Whitkoff that he would meet President Trump, then the Americans added the condition of Zelensky being present.

then Putin's people immediately said, basically, what, you're crazy? That's not going to happen. And that's the Russian understanding, or my understanding of the Russian understanding of how this played out in the past five or six hours. No, I think that's probably true. And again, this is the sort of thing that President Trump probably was accustomed to doing in the New York City real estate game. In other words, you arrange for a meeting on the basis of assumptions that are then

suddenly overturned once you agreed to the meeting and i there's no doubt that whitkoff probably said the president just wants to meet with you and uh wants to discuss a range of issues and we think it's important to talk and then ultimately leaves and then later on it's announced we want selensky to be present again the zolensky piece is a complete mystery to me that man and his regime are part and parcel of this whole sick MI6 CIA uh Biden administration cabal that brought it into existence why president trump gives a damn about any of that why he's interested remotely makes no sense at all if he's serious if he's serious about saying this is not my war judge the hell with that right nobody believes that anymore but what you just said is the russian

understanding of all this does donald trump and do the people around him vance heggseth rubia wherever else you want to put in that group. I don't think they understand the Russian mentality or Vladimir Putin's thinking and personal determination. Do you? Well, I can't speak for Secretary Rubio. If you recall when the first meetings were held after Trump came to office in Saudi Arabia,

Secretary Rubio said something that was true that these meetings about normalizing relations with Moscow had gone very well. He was right. they had. And that was a truthful statement. My impression at that point from Secretary Rubio was that we were genuinely interested in a normalization of relations, quite apart from the whole issue in Ukraine. And there was a justifiable understanding in Trump's mind, at least at that point, that our relationship with Russia was far more important about any short-term goals

we may have in Ukraine. That seems to have gone by the wayside. Now, where where does secretary rubio stand i don't know i'm still trying to figure out why whitkoff goes to moscow and not secretary rubio because whitkoff is the de facto secretary of state because he's a billionaire real estate developer who was worked with donald trump rubio is the legal secretary of state well this is why people are referring to the new york city delegation and command and control of the united states of america right uh which is these are elected people. Yes, unelected, unconfirmed, unnominated, unconfirmed by the Senate. Before we go, I want to go back to Israel for a minute. General Flynn, that General Flynn, made a very,

very interesting statement. I'm not sure when it was, Chris. It was either yesterday or today on Steve Bannon's show about his understanding of what happened on October 7th. Now, this is a little long, but it's compelling. Chris, cut number 20. And I know that there's some machinations, and there's got to be some big, big problems right now, internal, and Netanyahu's dealing with it with the IDF. They're going to have to do some soul searching.

And I mean, immediate soul searching, because the 7th of October was a date, you know, that they still have not been able to, and there's an investigation going on, and I've already heard from some of the soldiers that were told to stand down in the exact hours. So something bad happened, and it was an inside thing.

I don't know, you know, again, that's a bombshell right there. So the internal situation in Israel has got to be done with a... Oh, hang on, hang on, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo, bo, whoa. Hang on, you can't drop a bomb like that. Mike Flynn, you're former head of DIA, first national security advisor, President Trump, a revered figure globally. You're saying your sources are telling you on the investigation that they're trying to slow down

and slow walk over there because we're coming up on the second anniversary of it, you're saying, that you're hearing, there's testimony or documents or actual evidence that certain elements of the Israeli military were told to stand down? Because I know from people I know, this is a very contentious area, and it's going to be explosive. Are you hearing the same thing? Steve, you can go back to interviews that I did, like, the next day and the following

week after October 7th in multiple broad alternative media, where I said something went wrong because, Steve, I have personally walked that border. credible if you go back and review the programs that you've had with me within 60 days of the event i said that this was not a real event that in fact this was allowed to happen i pointed to the warnings given by the egyptian military intelligence to the israelis i also pointed to the group of intelligence officers inside the idf women who were employed exclusively for the purpose of watching everything that happens in gaza and they reported an imminent attack i also agreed completely with max blumenthal who talked about the fractricidal killings uh you know the idf comes in

guns blazing ends up killing a lot of people the question is where were they before why was there was there no reaction force remember i too have visited that area i visited that headquarters and i know some of the top people in the israeli defense force those were very professional competent people competent officers extremely sharp they had a complete grasp of everything and i said at the time this smells bad this is not real this this was allowed to happen so that it would be a trigger for the larger war. Now you're hearing two card-carrying Zionists who have always stood by the Israelis who are now suddenly saying a year plus later, oh, this doesn't look good. Well, welcome to the party. Thank you for showing up. You're a little late, damn it. Are the Israelis blackmailing Donald

Trump? I wouldn't be surprised. It wouldn't be hard. I mean, look, the man's a billionaire. And, you know, do all sorts of things because they have the money to do it they're always surrounded by lots of women or anything else they want so i suppose anything is possible i would simply say this i think most of us and i include myself in this category what adults do men and women in private is their business judge i mean i i'm not in i'm not interested in what they do whatever they do they can do. But when you include children, it's over. That's unacceptable. And that's the real question here, because we know that Epstein was a pedophile. We know that he was feeding the appetite of pedophiles. This is a procurer, a pimp. And this man was actively engaged in

blackmailing, not in the usual sense for money, but working for the Mossad. And I I don't doubt the CIA had a hand in it as well. Maybe MI6. So unfortunately, the possibility that he was or is being blackmail is real. The question is, for what? If it's women, come on, every NFL star, every national basketball association player, all these people, they have endless access to women. And if they're in the other direction, men, I suppose.

We don't care. That doesn't matter. I mean, it may be unsavory. It may lower people's opinion of someone on the basis of that kind of behavior. But what really counts here more than anything else is children. We have too many children disappearing in this country every year. We still have children being trafficked over the border with Mexico and, frankly, into our harbors and across into Canada. It's horrendous. It's offensive. It's wrong. It's evil. That's what bothers everybody. and that's what President Trump needs to be sure he is not part of. I suppose he's tainted just for being a friend of Epstein. He must have known what Epstein was doing. I would find it inconceivable that Trump himself engaged in this, but he must have known what was going on. Well, when you lie down with pigs, you inevitably come up smelling like garbage. That's the bad news.

And again, that's the last thing I want to hear about the president of the United States. So I hope that's not the issue, but I think they're going to have to come clean with this. I think these Epstein files are going to come out. And if it does turn out that he's being blackmailed, well, first of all, if that's the case, then he has a choice. He can either endure the shame and the misery of being outed publicly, or he can resign. But if you're the president of the United States, you cannot make policy decisions on the basis of what a foreign intelligence entity is holding against you. Right. Nor can you give a commutation or a pardon to the sidekick of this pedophile whose conviction was based on the evidence of those she transported to him.

Well, what's even, yeah, and I think what's even more disturbing is the reports that are coming out, that wealthy Jewish billionaires and others are pouring money and influence into whatever they can to help and rescue this woman. I don't understand that. That's reprehensible. That's the last thing. And that's probably one of the reasons that she's now being released from the prison where she was being held and given some sort of minimum security opportunity, which, as I understand it, when it comes to sex crimes, you sure. shouldn't have that option.

She's in a prison that is forbidden to house sex crime people, particularly people that were involved in trafficking, but that's where she is. Whatever she said to Todd Blanche, Trump's former lawyer, now the number two person in the Department of Justice, was enough to cause them administratively to move her. All right, enough with all this. Colonel, thank you very much. Thank you for letting you. I could just add one last thing for everybody.

Sure, of course. You remember that President Trump sat in the Oval Office and turned to Zelensky and said to him, you have no cards to play. Right. Well, right now, President Trump and Ukraine has no cards to play. If telling Donahue to threaten war against Russia is the card he thinks he has to play, then he's lost his mind. Because the thing we need to keep in mind, if you go back through all these simulations

that we have had over many, many years, And I'm talking about in my experience in the military when I was on active duty and since then, all of the ones that specifically were involved with the Soviet Union inevitably escalated to the nuclear level. And when they did, people concluded pretty accurately that once you hit that level, it was very difficult to control anything. And the notion that you could use a so-called tactical nuclear weapon and be sure that everyone on the other side would know, well this is only tactical you know as colin powell said at the time uh i don't think you can drop a nuke on someone and then tell them this is a small one and not expect a response it's just nonsense i think

we've reached the point where james madison and you're a better constitutional scholar than i am i think it was in number 10 he said that they're trying to structure power in such a way in government to compensate or at least cope with the possibility that we will not quote unquote always have an enlightened man at the helm the problem is we've reached the point where i don't think we have very many enlightened men anybody who talks casually as this four star did this man donahue and another co-architect of the disaster in afghanistan and its withdrawal once you you talk in those terms you demonstrate that you've lost touch with reality. And the bad news for us, or I guess the good news for us,

is that the Russians haven't because Putin has bent over backwards to avoid these provocations leading to a nuclear exchange. That's the last thing that he wants, and he will do everything he can to avoid it. But at some point, he will lose patience if we persist along these lines. And I would not want that to happen. I think it would be better for us to now exercise some restraint and find a different way forward. Negotiate intelligently.

But first, if you're going to meet with the man, and this is something President Trump needs to understand, you have to have a larger strategic architecture in mind. It's not enough just to have a meeting and say, well, let's sort out in Ukraine. No, let's sort it all out. Let's make it clear what our interests are. What are your interests? what are our interests? How do we make these harmonize? And if we can, then we can avoid future conflict. That ought to be the goal. I don't hear anybody saying that. I don't know if Donald Trump understands that or even cares about it, or if he just wants to

bring about a even temporary cessation in activities so that the people who vote on the Nobel Peace Prize, for which he was nominated by Benjamin Netanyahu. Yahoo, you can't make that up, we'll look upon him favorably. Well, the group of women in Norway that decided the last one that I paid attention to gave it to Barack Obama for being not white and getting elected. Right. Now I suppose you could turn around and do something equally stupid for Trump. I don't know.

I've kind of walked away from the whole Nobel Peace Prize business. The ones that have to do with substance, especially science, engineering. engineering technology and possibly literature are meaningful. But this business with a Peace Prize, I don't know that it's all that meaningful anymore, Judge. Yeah. Colonel McGregor, thank you. Thank you for allowing me to chat with you for this duration and on this vast array of topics. Thank you for being the way you are.

Well, you're brilliant and you're courageous. It's a rare commodity today. but thank you so much we'll look forward to seeing you next week colonel okay thanks so much judge for us coming up tomorrow friday at four in the afternoon the intelligence community round table and a bonus at 445 i don't know where he is on the planet but chris will find him pepe eskobar judge napolitano for judging freedom Thank you.