Judging Freedom - COL. Douglas Macgregor: Is Russia on the Ropes?

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

COL. Douglas Macgregor: Is Russia on the Ropes?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

you Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, no, today is Wednesday, June 4th, 2025. Colonel Douglas McGregor will be with us in just a moment. Just how serious a military strike was the drone attack on Russia? But first this. While the markets are giving us whiplash, have you seen the price of gold? It's soaring. In the past 12 months, gold has risen to more than $3,000 an ounce. I'm so glad I bought my gold.

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and you have a 100% risk-free purchase guarantee. It's time to see if gold is right for you. Call 800-511-4620, 800-511-4620 or go to learjudgenap.com and tell them your friend the judge sent you. Governor McGregor, welcome here. Thank you very much in advance for your time. Did the United States and NATO attack Russia over the weekend using drones from their proxy Ukraine? Yes, unquestionably. And how significant a military, from a military perspective, Colonel, how significant was

this attack? We're hearing stories that it was 40 to 50 planes that were destroyed, and we're hearing stories that it was four to seven planes that were destroyed. I think for the most part it was a PR stunt to try and convey the impression that Ukraine is capable of carrying on the war, has great fight left in it, and is capable ultimately of harming Russia. I don't think the harm was very great. I think it's grossly exaggerated in the West. Anything you hear from the Western outlets,

BBC or any of the mainstream in the United States are probably untrue, or at least grossly exaggerated. What I think is true is that we damaged ourselves and our relationship, what there is left of it with Moscow, by attacking these bombers on the tarmac or the runway as a result of the Strategic Arms Limitation Agreements. And I think the Russians have reached a point now where collectively they all say we can't as a result of the strategic arms limitation agreements. And I think the Russians have reached a point now where collectively they all say we can't be trusted. Whatever we say is irrelevant because it's probably untrue. So I think that's the real fallout from this.

We lost whatever lingering credibility we may have had with them for the foreseeable future. Well, you went right to where I was going to ask you about next. I mean, there are complaints this morning that President Zelensky did not tell President Trump, but surely senior officials in the CIA or the DIA, whichever intel group was involved in planning and carrying this out, must have known about it. Is it true that it took 18 months to plan and plot the first year that our Intel group was involved in planning and carrying this out must have known about it. Is it true that it took 18 months to plan and plot the first year under the Biden folks and the and the last the final six months under Trump?

You know, that's something I can't evaluate. I don't know. It may well be the case. Remember that Russia is an enormous country with thousands of miles of border. It's not hard to penetrate. And this was clearly an interesting and innovative way to attack by using these trucks with roofs that could be opened and then launch these drones. But we've seen this sort of thing before. The Russians have actually used containers on merchant ships to carry missiles that could be launched. I think there was something of a strategic failure on the intelligence side

inside Russia. I don't know how that will be handled, but I'm sure that someone or some people will be held accountable for that. General Keane, who of course works for a General Keane, who of course works for a think tank that is a friend for either the Defense Department or for Langley, is calling it a tremendous victory for the Ukrainians and a catastrophic defeat. The Sun Fox knows where he works. And a catastrophic defeat for the Russians, claiming that the Ukrainians had engaged Russian drivers and Russian engineers and all of this was assembled in Russia. And it's a catastrophic failure on the part of Russian Intel.

You think there's a little CIA exaggeration there? No, I think so. I think the larger the larger issue is not these sort of outrageous nonsensical claims that are being made. And you know, General Keynes an intelligent man. He knows the truth, but he's on the payroll and he's rewarded richly in New York City as well as in Washington DC and the defense industries for pushing the conflict.

We like to say that the so-called Democrats are all about refugees and open borders and the so-called Republicans are all about endless war. In truth, they all fit together as one party and General Keene is serving that interest. I think the larger question though is as follows. What is the likely impact of all of this on Russia? How are the Russians going to proceed from here?

There are a lot of really angry people in Russia, Judge. I'm not talking about just officials. I talk about the population. And they have always been dissatisfied with the slow p ponderous, deliberate progress that the Russian armed forces have made in eastern Ukraine. And I think that this also reinforces in the minds of the delusional in Washington that how can the Russians pose any real threat to us? Look how long it's taken them to advance in eastern Ukraine. No understanding of the larger goals, no understanding

the larger objectives, one of which is to avoid war with us and NATO. The problem now for President Putin and his generals is you can't put up with this any longer. You've got to push this to some sort of conclusion or you risk this whole business escalating out of control because you don't know who you're dealing with. President Trump tweets things or sends out things on X, and he thinks because he says them, they're true. This is not my war. I didn't start this.

I don't want it. Well, that's interesting, but it's irrelevant, President Trump. This is your war. You are the commander in chief. This is your war. You are the commander in chief. This is your responsibility. And that's the way the Russians look at everybody else. And he's beginning to look either feckless or downright reckless.

What do you think the pressure is like on president Putin to respond dramatically? You know, he has the irresniks. He has, God forbid, he uses them, nuclear weapons. I get it that Russians are angry. These are Russians in the street. These are Russian elites. These are Russians in the intelligence community. These are Russians in the upper ranks of the military and these are Russians that advise him every day.

President Trupin, what am I saying? Trupin, that's a new one. President Putin, if anything, is not emotional. That doesn't mean he doesn't feel anything, but he's a man who learned early on how to manage and control his emotions. No doubt he shares the anger of his population. Absolutely.

But he's not a Trump-like figure. This is not someone who beats his chest in public and is anxious to announce his immediate intentions. I think what is happening right now is that they have an enormous number, over 700,000 troops in Ukraine right now. They have additional forces in Belarusia and inside the Russian borders. What he's doing at this point is he's looking at the map, he's listening to his commanders, and he is concluding that they have to press west. In other words to Dnieper, which is on the Dnieper River, also to Herson,

and then ultimately down into Odessa. I think if anything, these events, these PR stunts with explosives, either in Siberia on these airfields or with the bridge to Crimea, which contrary to popular belief is no longer as vital and essential as it once was, but it's still symbolic. Nevertheless, I think he's reached the point now where he understands they're going to have to press to those areas, and I think that will be his response. He's not going to announce it in a big way, but over the next week or two, I think you're going to see major troop movements. And there's not a damn thing that the Ukrainians can do about it. Does the nature of this attack with the drones being smuggled into Russia and set off from within Russia, bear the earmarks of Mossad.

Does it remind you of the exploding pagers? Well, keep in mind that there are many Mossad agents inside Ukraine. They've been involved for some time now. Reports came in early on within the first couple of years of Mossad officers who spoke perfect Ukrainian, fluent Ukrainian, in Ukrainian uniform, directing operations, running replacement operations and so forth. So they've been involved from the beginning. And keep in mind that the CIA and MI6 in Great Britain and Mossad are all joined at the hip. After all, their cooperation made possible the removal of Assad. Obviously, the Turkish president Erdogan had a critical role to

play because he had most of the power in Syria, but nevertheless, they were instrumental and now they're instrumental in integrating the former ISIS and al-Qaeda elements into this new permanent Syrian army. So they're all over, they're involved. If you begin asking, well, how much were they involved? Then we're in the game of speculation. Right. I have no idea, but they're involved. But is it understood from your perspective that CIA, MI MI6, Mossad and I forget the initials, forgive me, the Ukrainian intel work together? Yes, SBU which is the initials that you're

talking about, they're very definitely not just integrated, they're heavily dependent upon it. I mean again, who's going to provide them with the intelligence surveillance reconnaissance capabilities and the resulting intelligence that flows from that? Well, we're the principal source. This is the problem with President Trump standing up there and saying, I don't want this and I've tried to end it and I don't want any part of this. Well, that's fine, Mr. President, but you're ultimately responsible for all of it now. And no one is going to believe anything you say unless you act decisively to disengage from this. And thus far, we found out

that President Trump isn't willing to do anything to fundamentally change what Biden and his administration did. I'm just wondering now, if the CIA's involvement was integral, wouldn't they have had an obligation to, under the law, get a presidential finding before they could do this? Stated differently, did Donald Trump know about this ahead of time? Well, in theory, you're right, and there may be a finding left over from the previous president that they'll refer to as far as President Trump is concerned This is not someone who is detail oriented. This is not someone who sits down and Studies reports. This is not someone who sits through lengthy briefings and asks hard questions

You know, we had this recent incident where Four American soldiers were returned, their remains were returned to the United States from Lithuania. The Lithuanians provided them with almost a state funeral. They arrived at Dover Air Force Base and there was no president of the United States to greet them. Now, technically, he doesn't have to be there. And he sent Mr. Higgs, as the current

Secretary of Defense, to go receive these. But people remember vividly Ronald Reagan receiving these bodies after the Beirut bombing. That has been imprinted on the American mind like nothing else. And there was an expectation that the loss of these men's lives would be noted publicly by the president in a dramatic way. It didn't happen. Instead, he went to a golfing tournament sponsored by the Saudis. I don't think there's a lot of self-awareness

with President Trump. I don't think he grasps the dangers that are involved. And so the only thing I can tell you is that he may well not have known, and he may have simply waved it off and said, yeah, that's fine. Uh, you know, whatever. And, and gone on with the rest of his day. That sounds callous, but I don't think it's unrealistic.

And I wonder what happens when he and the president of Putin speak again. Hey, if, uh, Hey, uh, Donald, your guys tried to destroy a good chunk of my military and you didn't know about it? Come on. I think President Putin will be as always polite, but pay absolutely no attention to anything President Trump says. Remember President Trump, I'm trying to turn Putin into Trupin again.

President Putin has said on more than one occasion that he's dealt with several presidents, judge. Right. He discovered that it really didn't make a great deal of difference what they said or what they insisted were their intentions, that ultimately there was another power in Washington and that power was making the decisions and so the presidents themselves didn't turn out to be very influential. In Russia, the president of Russia has enormous power and authority. And if he says something, it happens. If he says it's not going to happen, it won't. So for the

Russians right now, this whole business is hard to grasp. And they'll continue to be polite because that's their nature. But they're going to press on and do whatever they think they have to to secure their borders and their country. Let me switch gears if I might. You mentioned Secretary Hegseth. I think he's been, you may disagree with me, saber rattling over China lately. Is something happening over there or is this just a diversion? First of all, the US Armed Forces are in no shape to take on any major power in a major war. So the whole notion that we're going to threaten the Chinese or the Russians or someone else into obedience, which is what Mr. Hegseth and President Trump seem to think is a deterrence. In other words, the notion that we can bully people into submission is nonsense.

And that's a big problem right now because I know that President Trump thinks that bullying works. Well, it may work on the Panamanians. I don't know. It may work on, you know, people in Central Africa, but it's not going to work in Asia. It's not going to work in Europe, certainly not going to work anymore in the Middle East. So I think that's part of the problem. The second thing is, you know, this is absurd if you stop and look at it on its face. We've done everything in our power

with these tariffs, not only to try and harm China, Russia, and Iran and other states, we've harmed our allies, our friends, people who are friendly to us. We have made a mess of the world right now. There have been meetings all over the world. And the media doesn't report this stuff. You can go to Asia, they've had these meetings in Singapore and other capitals. And they're saying, what do we do with patient zero? You understand patient zero? Patient zero is the man with the original malady that can infect everybody and kill them. That's the way they refer to President Trump at this point. So the objective is to contain the Americans. This is a rogue state that still has enough military power at its disposal to do a lot of damage. So what we have to do collectively, all around the

world, this is what BRICS is all about. It's not just militarily, but it's also financial and economic. How do we protect ourselves against this? How do we contain the bacillus? That's the way we're viewed at the moment. So I think President Trump is out of touch with reality. I don't think people are telling him the truth. And who knows, it may not make any difference because no matter how much damage these things do, the tariffs or the threat of dramatically increasing them,

right now he wants to tax foreign capital. Well, the most dangerous thing he can do at this point is drive foreign capital out of the United States. Right. Right. We need foreign capital. We shouldn't be taxing any of it. This should be a haven for it. And so people are looking at this,

whether you're in the Emirates or Singapore or China or Japan or Korea or anywhere else You're saying well We got to get our money out and the stupidity that you hear in Washington from everybody is well There's nowhere else for them to go where the biggest market in the world that are out of their minds not true That's just nonsense. So you can't view what's being done militarily, which is stupid and counterproductive, as something separate and distinct from what's happening on the financial and economic side. It's all linked and it's all bad at this point. Let me switch gears if I could to another bad bad state of affairs. What is your understanding of resistance movements over the genocide in Gaza and the persistent refusal of the Israeli government to allow sufficient food and medical

supplies into Gaza? Remember, the most important thing to Mr Netanyahu and to the Israeli state is our unconditional support for whatever he wants to do. That's the bottom line. We can't lose sight of that. As long as we are 100% on board, as long as we are going to continue to supply the Israelis with whatever they need to destroy the populations in Gaza and the West Bank, to pulverize southern Lebanon, places in Syria or potentially even Egypt or anywhere else in the region, it doesn't matter

to them what anybody else thinks. Now, because we have a media that is very obedient, not just on the Ukraine narrative, which is utterly and completely false, but also obedient to the Gaza and West Bank narratives that this project Greater Israel is justified and rooted in everything from biblical texts to, you know, modern-day anti-Semitism. This sort of thing is just unsustainable from the standpoint of most of the world. Even the British now, who have very much been in the Israeli pocket, have now stepped forward and said this is unacceptable. The French, even the Germans, who have spent 80 years apologizing and subsidizing Israel,

have said, no, no, we can't go on with this. So the rest of the world has turned, I would argue, overwhelmingly against Israel. And it doesn't make any difference, Judge. Does it make a difference that Arab nations might do something? Are there movements in Egypt to challenge Netanyahu? Well, you know, you have this march on Gaza that people are trying to organize in Egypt, whether they hope they can get hundreds of thousands of people to walk across the Sinai towards Gaza to the Rafa gate and demand that it be open and people there be fed and so

forth. If you're an Israeli given their mentality and what they're doing and the military power at their disposal right now that they can use with impunity, that's laughable. Nobody cares. They could care less. Go ahead and march across the Sinai. If you're gonna deal with Israel, I think everyone in the world has discovered there's only one way to deal with them and that is the way they deal with everybody else. The problem with that at this point is us. Everyone is prepared to go after Israel. Let's not kid ourselves at this point. The Israelis have made themselves about as popular as the plague. But as long as we stand with the Israelis, people are going to shy away from that. Now, how long will that last?

We don't know. We just don't know. But we know that the Israelis are in charge, and the rest of the world knows that. We have not only no strategy, no plan, no attainable objectives that conform to what we would call the American strategic interest. That doesn't exist. Everything's in pulse with President Trump from day to day. But his impulses are not even that important. What's important is that if you sit down, you're President of the United States, you say, how many senators or congressmen do I have to pass this particular legislation? I have to pass this particular legislation. And you find out that President Netanyahu,

or Prime Minister Netanyahu controls more senators and more congressmen than the president does. Well, I think that about sums it up. And right now that's the fact. So, you know, President Trump can bloviate, he can complain, but nothing is really going to change on that score. And by the way, it's very interesting that if you look at this big, new, beautiful bill that the president was talking about, which Elon Musk has rightly characterized as a catastrophe

for the nation, one of the things that's really interesting is that President Trump reserves all of his anger and spleen for really two people. One is Senator Rand Paul in Kentucky and the other is Thomas Massey from Kentucky. So I imagine the anti-Semitic task force will descend on Kentucky in the near future and begin mass arrests. Well, I'm just kidding, obviously. Yeah, no, I understand. I understand exactly what you mean.

I appreciate that analysis. Would hundreds of thousands of Egyptians marching across the Sinai put pressure on General Al-Sisi or not? Only to provide sufficient water and transportation and medical support to avoid large numbers of people dying. Otherwise, I would say in the immediate sense, no. The army is already anxious to fight. That is the Egyptian force. The nation is anxious to fight. General Sisi, as I tried to say earlier, doesn't want a fight that will involve us. I mean, his nightmare is if I attack the Israelis for what they're doing in Gaza, all sorts of terrible things could happen to us in Egypt.

And we have no means of protecting ourselves against an American military offensive action against us. Now, he's had conversations with Mr. Erdogan. He's had long, long and detailed conversations and discussions with Tehran. He talks at great length with MBS in Saudi Arabia. So he's preparing for the worst case scenario. I think in his mind, eventually a war is coming and he's going to have to deal with it. He won't be able to avoid it, but he's not going to act prematurely to bring it on. And again, the thing that we don't have, and I think Ambassador Freeman has been on to talk about this and others, we have an acute lack of executive competence. When you look at the people that have been picked

for the administration to do things, these aren't experienced, thoughtful people. They are not supported by large numbers of old hands, people that know what they're doing. I'm not saying that the last administration was better. They weren't. They set the tone and the stage for everything that's happening now.

The great tragedy is very little has changed since President Trump took power. But President Trump is focused on optics. It's back to what I said before about X. Sends out a statement on X and he says, this is not my war, I don't like it. He thinks that that now is concrete, that something emerges from it. I don't think he understands that saying these things and getting something done and moving something in a different direction are very different.

So there is no executive competence with this administration. So I don't know what happens. And I think that's why we're increasingly treated as patient zero. Everybody is equally alarmed, but also confused. Thank you for all this, Colonel. Thank you for your analysis on all of these issues. As unpleasant as it is, you are a breath of fresh air

because of your ability to bore in and get through the PR fog. Thank you again, my dear friend. Look forward to seeing you next week. Sure. See you next week. Thanks. Thank you. As Colonel McGregor just mentioned, Ambassador Freeman, he will be with us at one o'clock this afternoon.

Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski at two o'clock this afternoon and our old pal, Phil Girardi at three o'clock. Justin Appalatino for Judging Freedom. MUSIC