Judging Freedom - Col. Douglas Macgregor: Israeli self-destruction in Gaza

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

Col. Macgregor reacts to the recent testimony by Secretary Loyd Austin. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, November 2nd, 2023. Colonel Douglas McGregor joins us. Colonel, always a pleasure. Thank you't know if it already has. We have to listen to what the Russian ambassador had to say in the United Nations, as well as other leaders in the region. We have to note the recent meeting between the foreign ministers of Turkey and Iran, and then the conversations between the Iranian foreign minister and Mr. Erdogan, all of these things have an ominous tone about them. That doesn't mean that everything is about to fall on Israel immediately, but I think we're headed in that direction, and it doesn't appear that anyone in Washington is

interested in halting the rush into disaster. Was one of Hamas's goals on October 7th to induce an Israeli overreaction so as to coalesce Arab animosity in the region against it? Well, it's not unreasonable to make that point. But, you know, we haven't talked to anyone in Hamas. We don't know what their thinking happens to be. But if that wasn't their intention, it certainly turned out to be that way. by attempting to wage a land war in a place as treacherous, as urban, as filled with tunnels and old buildings as Gaza is? I think so. I would say on many levels. If we go back to the summer of last year when the war in Ukraine was changing or evolving and the world's eyes were fixed almost exclusively on what was happening there. Had the Israelis confronted Hamas at that point, I think the

Israelis would have had an easier time waging this sort of ruthless, scorched earth campaign against Hamas than they have right now. It's simply a function of the fact that the world is not looking at Ukraine because the world knows the truth. The war in Ukraine is effectively over. The losses and the destruction in Ukraine are horrendous. Ukrainians can't do much about it. So everyone is focused now on Israel and Hamas, and they're seeing things that upset them. You cannot broadcast the pictures of dead children being carried out of the rubble in Gaza without expecting some sort of horrendous national reaction out of each of the Arab states and from the so-called Arab street.

So that's definitely part of it. And on another level, I think that the region is increasingly coalescing into this alliance that might have otherwise never occurred. There's a readiness to take action. There's no doubt about it against the Israelis. And we, again, are the loyal, obedient servants of Mr. Netanyahu and his government. The loyal, obedient servants of Mr. Netanyahu and his government. I'm sure that that's the way he feels, and of course that is the way we behave. Back to Erdogan, are his rantings and ravings before a million people, whatever the size of that crowd was, to be

taken as for domestic political purposes or in preparation for support for military activity? Both. There's no question about it. I think both are accurate. Mr. Erdogan is a clever, clever manipulative politician if ever there was one but he's also a very powerful nationalist in the turkish sense and and widely respected inside his country for nothing else his strength in leading turkey in fact you could say that in many ways, he's regarded by many of the Turks in this sense as a strong leader, the way many Israelis regard or regarded Mr. Netanyahu.

So I think he's deadly serious. And for the Turks to hold these meetings with the Iranians in public, they've always had meetings privately from time to time. But for these meetings to be so public is a very, very important signal to the world. Why do you think that Prime Minister Netanyahu doesn't take note of this, or if he takes note of it, isn't acting upon it? I mean, my view is that his situation politically at home is so precarious, he only stays in office for as long as the war is being waged. And the minute the war is over, he's out of office and maybe out of freedom. But I would think if Iran and Turkey are cooking something up and with Erdogan riling up the masses, Netanyahu ought to take note of it and perhaps do something like pull

the troops back or let humanitarian aid in. So my question is, if there's a ceasefire, who wins or who's perceived as winning? You know, I don't know that there will be any winners if there is an immediate ceasefire. In other words, something happens right away. It'll take time to sort out, but I think whatever happens will work to Israel's disadvantage strategically. And I think Mr. Netanyahu, and by the way, I haven't met him. I don't know him. I've read other people's assessments, but I can't evaluate him personally. But I think that he is a ferocious fighter for Israel there's no question about that but I also think he's got us in a position where

I think he believes this is the time to leverage American National power to try and settle accounts if he can do it with his neighbors and he is focused on that almost to the exclusion of everything else we are giving him unconditional support on the assumption that he is going to be successful that he will go in root out Hamas destroy the place and that he can get that done before anything else happens and we put our forces there as a stopgap measure in the event that Hezbollah attacks. I think it will. I don't know what the timing will be, but I think they ultimately will do that so that we can distract Hezbollah from interfering with what Mr. Netanyahu is trying to do further south. And I think that's it. I think that's all there is right now. And many, many Israelis have complained that they don't see any other strategic end state other than Hamas is destroyed and Gaza is in ruins.

And that's not, by the way, that's not the kind of strategic end state that you want unless you want another war. That's the problem. Here's Prime Minister Netanyahu, cut to Chris, saying that Israel will never agree to a ceasefire. I want to make clear Israel's position regarding a ceasefire. Just as the United States would not agree to a ceasefire after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, or after the terrorist attack of 9-11, Israel will not agree to a cessation of hostilities with Hamas after the horrific attacks of October 7th. Calls for a ceasefire are calls for Israel to surrender to Hamas,

to surrender to terrorism, to surrender to barbarism. That will not happen. To me, that is just demagoguery. They could stop fighting for 48 hours and let water and food and fuel and medical supplies in. Well, I think that's true, but there's something else here. We're hearing these constant references to the Second World War. And yes, we destroyed Germany. Yes, we destroyed Japan. And the result was a 50-year Cold War with the Soviet Union because we had to spend the money and raise the forces to fill the vacuums that we created on the strategic level with the destruction of both Japan and Germany.

There were voices, voices in the British general staff, voices in our own, that warned there is a reason why Japan should survive. There are reasons why the Germans need to survive. We don't want Hitler. We don't like the militarists in Japan. But these two states have an important role to play in Eurasia, on the periphery of Eurasia. Don't destroy them or we'll end up holding the bag. Well, guess what? That's exactly what happened. Now, Mr. Netanyahu is taking these things and he really wants us to help him do to his enemies in the region what we did to Japan,

even if it requires the use of a weapon of mass destruction. I don't think that's in our interest. And I think the longer this lasts and the more that Americans look at this, the more they will question the wisdom of this sort of thing. By the way, Lindsey Graham made essentially the same comments as Mr. Netanyahu. So they're on the same sheet of music. They sure are. Thank God he's not in the White House or we would have started World War III by bombing Tehran. Here's Secretary Austin, Austin 3, Chris, on we will provide all the security assistance to

Israel and woe to anybody that stands in our way. We're flowing security assistance into Israel at the speed of war. We're providing air defense capabilities, precision-guided munitions, small-diameter bombs, and other key equipment, including more interceptors for the life-saving Iron Dome system. Let's run number five as well on, you'll like this, General, bold American leadership. In both Israel and Ukraine, democracies are fighting ruthless foes who are out to annihilate them. We will not let Hamas or Putin win. Today's battles against aggression and terrorism will ride or not emboldened to commit more aggression and more atrocities. This is similar to what he said and of which you and I and many others were critical when he said, you know, we can project power on two fronts, meaning Israel and Ukraine? Does he know what he's talking about?

Well, as far as the two-front solution that he's discussing, no, he doesn't. He's completely out of touch with reality. He's simply reading from the script that's handed to him by the White House and by Secretary Blinken. You know, this is very disturbing in the sense that we are not simply overreaching. We have gotten onto this one-way street that is ultimately a dead end. We've said, Mr. Netanyahu is correct, it's his way or the highway. Either we kill all of the enemies of Israel that pop up over the wall, or we failed. There is no future for us. It reminds me of the German government's statements after the fall of Stalingrad, where they said, this is the year of decision. We're going to destroy all of our enemies and secure victory.

We all know that what happened, it was the opposite, and ultimately Germany was doomed at that point. So I think it's very similar. I don't see it leading anywhere good. So no, I think Mr. Netanyahu has got us where he wants us, and we're going to ride down the hill with him. And at the bottom is an abyss. At the risk of getting off onto Ukraine, we're going to play a clip showing you just how absent from reality Secretary Austin is. Cut four, Chris. Yet even as we surge support into Israel, we remain focused on Ukraine. Nearly 20 months into Putin's failed campaign of conquest, the Russian military has been badly weakened. Ukraine's brave forces have taken back more than half of the territory seized by Russian invaders since February 2022.

And that was made possible by bipartisan and principled U.S. leadership and our coalition of some 50 allies and partners. Colonel, that's not a political speech. He's under oath to tell the truth. Nothing that he just said, I submit, correct me if you wish, is truthful. No, it isn't. And I don't know what map he's examining. Perhaps he too is being subjected to the mushroom treatment and being kept in a cave and fed crap. It reminds me of Trotsky, who was approached by one of his Bolshevik colleagues when Trotsky printed things for distribution inside the Soviet Union in 1920 that were utterly false.

And he said, comrade, paper will put up with anything you put on it. It seems that both the internet and television will put up with anything that's posted on it. And he could not be more wrong. And again, this is the sort of dangerous fantasy, this sense of limitless resources and capabilities, when the opposite is the case. Our resources and our capabilities are not limitless. And we don't want to squander them unnecessarily. And by the way, the same thing is true for Israel. Both Israel and the United States need to think first and foremost about, number one, their survival and their national power. You don't do anything that puts that at risk,

and that's what we're doing. And Mr. Netanyahu is doing that. It's sort of Hitler saying, I'm going to invade the Soviet Union. I'm going to risk everything on one throw of the dice. That's insane. You don't throw dice in strategy. How dangerous would it be for peace in the region if American troops, Marines or special forces, were to be on the ground in Gaza? Well, the danger is that if they go in, in any numbers, to Israel and they meet the enemy, that obviously they'll take losses. If there are severe losses, if there's more than a few at a time, not only will that awaken the American public from its normal slumber at home, but more important, it would reveal that we are

once again not invincible, not invulnerable. And one of the things that despite all of the stupidity in Ukraine that still exists is our brand. We still have a pretty good brand despite all the problems. That brand will be destroyed if people think, look, the Americans have come into this and they've lost aircraft. They've lost troops. Gee, they're not that good. They're not that strong. That encourages more enemies to pile on. Again, that's why unless there's a vital strategic interest at stake, you don't commit forces that could be defeated. Do your sources inform you about whether there have been American military casualties in Gaza? Yes, I was told that by a couple of very reliable sources who have to remain anonymous. And they insisted some time ago that we had put people on the ground in Israel.

They described them as special ops forces. They could be army or marine, obviously, and that they were working with or cooperating closely and in some cases were there to also observe and learn lessons some of them have been involved in the fighting and i'm told that we've taken casualties but you know we took casualties in ukraine as well judge we've lost people over there and we have not been told about it. It has been suppressed and kept secret, and the media has been very helpful to the government in doing this. So I surmise that they're probably right. We've probably taken some losses,

but no one is going to advertise it for fear that it would awaken people. Remember, Americans are not really paying that much attention to what happens overseas. I wish they were, but they're not. I must suggest strenuously that the American public has the right to know when the president of the United States is putting troops on the ground and some of them are cutting back in body bags. Even if they're not coming back in body bags, we have the right to know when he's putting troops on the ground or using the military in any respect. Yeah, again, this is not December or January, December 1944, January 45. We took tremendous losses in the Battle of the Bulge. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of 140,000 casualties fighting the Germans.

The Germans only sustained 68,000, of which only 11,000 were killed. We solved the problem during war by lying. We said the Germans had lost 200,000 and that we had only suffered 70,000. In other words, we reversed the numbers. We didn't tell the truth. Well, we were in the middle of a war and Americans were very unhappy with how lengthy the war was turning out to be. And a lot of Americans wanted us to bring our forces home. We're not in that situation. We're not in a world war. We don't want to be in a world war. So if we're taking losses and our forces are on the ground, yes, you're right. We need to know so that people can make their voices heard. They can call and say, we don't approve. We don't like it.

We don't want it. Well, if we're in Netanyahu's pocket and he wants troops there and doesn't want the world to know about it, I suppose old Joe Biden will try and keep it secret. Well, you know, Judge, there's one other thing here to consider, and that is, we have a bad habit of piecemealing. If you're going to commit your military power to a specific objective in support, for instance, of Israel, go to the American people, make the case and say, in order to ensure Israel's long-term survival and security, strategically, I am committing the power of the United States to defeat Israel's enemies.

We're not doing that, though. We're sitting on the margins. We're playing a game. We're misinforming the American people. We're pretending that we can do more than we can do. In other words, either come clean, tell the truth, and commit, or don't. But this halfway house is dangerous for the reasons that I outlined. The news slips out. It leaks out. We find out, and people are angry and say, why are you doing this? Can Israel defeat Hamas? I don't think that Hamas can be systematically erased. Look, half the leadership is not even in Gaza. So you can fight and eventually kill most of the fighters, of which there are maybe 30,000 or 40,000 left, I suspect, up in the city itself.

It's going to be long and tiresome. It's going to cost casualties. It's going to cost a lot of time. But yeah, I think it can probably be done, provided you don't care about the losses that are taken by non-combatants. And I think it's important that people like Lindsey Graham and Mr. Netanyahu tend to regard anyone who is in the vicinity of the Hamas fighters as effectively combatants. So if you're there, you shouldn't be there. That's why you're being killed. I don't think that's a good solution in today's world. I don't think it's something they'll get away with. But I mean, that's obviously the attitude. So they dropped six bombs on a refugee camp to kill one Hamas leader, and they killed between two and 300 hopeless, helpless, homeless refugees rage, whatever emotion you want to take into account, could make that argument, accept that argument.

Churchill made that argument to justify the bombings of Dresden. It's not a new phenomenon. And for Churchill, it was total war with Germany and didn't give a damn what that ultimately meant until it was too late, by the way. And Mr. Netanyahu is taking the same position. I don't buy that. And the problem that I have with it is that no one is stating why it is in our interest for the United States to apply its power, prestige, and influence to kill all of Israel's enemies, because Hamas is not the only enemy. And as each day passes, as we started discussing this, the enemies are multiplying.

Chris, run the clip, please, of Alistair Crook. I would like the colonel's comments on it. We both know Alistair. Here's what he told me just two days ago. the Israeli social compact with the Jewish people who live in Israel and the Israeli myth of security and invincibility have been shattered. Have those shatterings been irretrievable, irreparable? It would seem probably so. An Israeli journalist who we know, very reputable one, was up in the north. And he went to Kiryat Shomona, which is a big town on the borders with Lebanon up in the north, 20,000 population back, empty, deserted. He went to the kibbutz in the north, and across the north, he said there's not a soul.

It's completely deserted up in the north. There's just barriers and a few religious soldiers, and there was one old woman who was paralyzed and couldn't move and she was the only person he found in the whole northern territories of Israel and he said very clearly these people you know they said to him you know we don't trust the government. We don't trust the army. We just do not trust the government at all. We can't come back. I think that view is shared by most Israelis towards Prime Minister Netanyahu and his extremist government.

I think the majority of Israelis, that majority is that's perhaps 60 percent perhaps it's 55 percent that majority feels that what Mr get Netanyahu is doing is both justified and necessary so I don't think the Israelis have lost complete confidence in the government what always is amazing to me is the is how we routinely lie to the American people. When I say we, I'm talking about Washington, about a whole range of things. And the American people tend to be very forgiving. Six weeks later, they're listening with great attention to what comes out of the Pentagon or the White House, and they're believing it, which is very strange to me. So I don't think it's completely gone. The other thing to keep in mind is that the Israeli settlers

who are up in northern Israel, and I shouldn't say settlers, I would simply say inhabitants, they're citizens, they live there, as well as down in southern Israel have of necessity been evacuated. They've left becauseraelis fully expect a full-scale war in the north as well as in the south can they fight two wars at the same time or will that draw american troops in there well i think we'll see when american air power is employed because when hezbollah attacks we will undoubtedly undoubtedly commit American air power from the fleet. And I don't know how effective it's going to be. I don't know what the level of capability is in the region, specifically with regard to air and missile defense. I know that the Russians

have some very good systems there that have performed well in Ukraine. What I don't know is whether or not they have been moved or will be made available to protect Hezbollah. And again, what happens when Hezbollah is attacked? It'll do enormous damage, but what happens when it's attacked? Will the Iranians sit quietly on the sidelines or will they flow into Iraq and Syria and try to finish our forces off there? Will the Iranians launch missiles from their arsenal all the way to Israel? We have no way of knowing. And then finally,

what will the Turks do? You know, the Turks, quite frankly, have never gotten along with Mr. Assad, but Mr. Assad is very weak. It may be that the Russians tell Mr. Assad to stand aside. If the Turks want to move through Syria to attack Israel, then let them go. You know, the Turks long said Syria is a Turkish province for all intents and purposes anyway. So this whole thing is unraveling, I think, at a very high speed. We just, we're not seeing it because we're not being informed. We're not being told about it. Egypt is another one. Mr. Sisi's position with each passing day weakens. We just, we're not seeing it because we're not being informed. We're not being told about it.

Egypt is another one. Mr. Sisi's position with each passing day weakens. The Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is very close to the Turks and Mr. Erdogan, and their blood is up. They will desperately go in and protect the Arabs in Gaza. We don't know really what's happening on the West Bank. We don't know what kinds of discussions are going on behind the scenes to prompt a full-scale rebellion there. This whole thing, we're seeing literally the tip of an iceberg strategically. And the real iceberg, the mammoth threat to Israel, and frankly, to our influence in the region and power in the region, is beneath the surface. No one's talking about it. Instead, we get these

ridiculous statements that absolutely are groundless from Secretary Austin or Blinken or the president saying, oh, we can do anything. Our resources are endless. We're stronger than ever. This is America. We can do it all. We cannot. That's the truth. Colonel, thank you very much for your time and for your analysis, as always. Who knows where this is going to go, but thank you for watching it for us and with us. Thank you, Judge. Of course. My friends, we are up to 226,000 subscriptions, well on our way to the quarter of a million by Christmas. My profound thanks and gratitude. Thank you for staying with us.

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