Judging Freedom - COL Douglas Macgregor : Trump Admin careening into the abyss and it may already be too late.

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

COL Douglas Macgregor : Trump Admin careening into the abyss and it may already be too late.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Undeclared wars are commonplace. Pragically, our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression with no complaints from the American people. Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force by government. To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating force must be understood and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government? Jefferson was right what if that government is best which governs least what if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong what if it is better to perish

fighting for freedom than to live as a slave what if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now everyone judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom today is Thursday September 10th 2026 I am back from Russia and how So, sorry for the delayed start today. It was unavoidable a matter, which we have since addressed. Colonel Douglas McGregor will be with us in just a moment, is Donald Trump, is the Trump administration facing an abyss? But first this. Throughout history, governments have rarely surrendered power voluntarily. They seek more control over our money, our movements, and ultimately our freedoms. That's why it's smart to understand your legal options before you need them.

I'd like to recommend a free special report from McKell Thorpe, founder of expat money. For more than 26 years, McKell has lived as an expat, helping families, entrepreneurs, and investors build a legal plan B through overseas residency and second citizenship. McKell's free report, Plan B, Residencies, and Instant Citizenships explains some of the best plans available. If preserving your freedoms and expanding your options are important, to you, get your free report at expatmoney.com slash judge. Be sure to use my link in the description

so that McKell knows you're a judging freedom fan. That's expatmoney.com slash judge. Colonel McGregor, welcome here. It's a pleasure to chat with you. It is my first conversation on air since I returned from Russia, which was just a few hours ago. Before we get to President Trump facing an abyss, or perhaps feeling like he's in hell, an analogy that you made in a great substack piece, you wrote, comparing him to President Lincoln after the North had lost a very serious battle

in the Civil War. In addition to my interview with Foreign Minister Lavrov, Larry Johnson, John Mearsheimer, Alster Crook, and Alster's wife, Ashling Byrne, and I had a three-hour dinner with, Foreign Minister Lavrov in his home and other Russian officials were there as well. He spoke very candidly, and one of the takeaways is the Russians were very disappointed at Anchorage. They were disappointed because the Americans made proposals to resolve the conflict

between Ukraine and Russia, which were delivered to the Russians about a week before Anchorage. They didn't like the proposals. They anguished over them. They finally decided to accept them. President Putin told President Trump he would accept them. Trump said Zelensky will do whatever I want. They shook hands on it. And then nothing happened. Are you surprised?

I'm surprised at Russian naivete more than anything else. I hope they have now learned something. They're dealing with an administration that, quite frankly, is not an American hands. This is the Israel First administration. We are governed and controlled by a small group of very well-financed Zionist Jewish billionaires. And they are determining what we will or will not do. I don't think President Trump, frankly, has had very much freedom of maneuver since he became president. I think he thought he might have it, but he hasn't.

And they are just as dedicated to fighting on against Russia in the hopes of bringing down the Russian government and ultimately raping Russia for its resources and mineral wealth, as they are in the destruction of Iran. So now hopefully they've figured that out, and they understand that, quite frankly, they need to press ahead with their own interests and their own goals because they're not going to get any help or useful support of any kind from President Trump. It's not going to happen.

They are of the view very similar to what you just said, colonel, that the president is naive and is immolable in the hands of those around him and those in Israel. But they're also of the view that to them a handshake is an agreement. And even though it didn't bear the signature of Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin, it was an American proposal reduced to writing delivered by Whitkoff and Kushner five or six days before Anchorage. When I asked

Foreign Minister Lavrov if they trust President Trump, he responded by saying, would you after the violation of the memorandum of understanding with Iran, would you

after the violation of the handshake in Anchorage? So I think they see through all this, but they're diplomats that listen to what they call these two real estate agents anytime they show up at president putin's door does that surprise you no because i think the russians from the very beginning uh have wanted a new relationship with the united states a productive relationship one based on mutual interest

commercial interest as well as strategic interest they find it incomprehensible that we americans would act against our own interests but that's exactly what we've done. And this did not begin with Donald Trump. Got to go back, I would argue, 25, 30 years. And we have been acting against our own interests, certainly over that entire time from the moment that Senator Richard Lugar told everyone that NATO was either out of area or out of business. In other words, we've got to find something new for the Europeans to do. Now that we no longer have a conflict with the Russians, at least for the moment, we have to drag them into other conflicts so that they remain in a state of permanent subordination to and dependence upon the

United States. That's never really changed. And there's no real difference today between what the Biden administration was trying to do to Russia and what we've been doing since President Trump took over. So I hope they've figured this out. I hate to be blunt about it. And this handshake business is completely meaningless with people that have no personal honor. And I'm afraid that's how I have to describe the people running our government. These are people without any integrity at all. There's no sense of personal honor, let alone national honor. When I asked him, now this is during the interview, and I'm going to play his response in a minute,

how he felt about Germany, its overt militarization, notwithstanding the gross unpopularity of the government. the ADF had just won its victory in the regional elections. The Germans have accused the Russians of sending a drone to the Leipzig airport. Foreign Minister Lavrov said we absolutely had nothing to do with it. We don't know anything about it, but we're worried about the Germans. I asked if Russia would contemplate, if President Putin contemplates, attacking the NATO munitions plants that are producing weapons, particularly in Great Britain and Germany, that are being used to kill Russians. Here's his answer. Cut number 13, Chris. I think we have it.

Nope, we don't have it. All right. I thought we did. Anyway, he said we don't plan on attacking any NATO countries. We will expose what they do, but we're not in the business of spreading the war. Our goal is to bring about as quick a resolution of the special military operation as we can without drawing more people in it. Okay. To Iran, Colonel, what is the abyss that Donald Trump is facing? Well, we've been defeated strategically by the Iranian state and nation. This is the great tragedy, and he obviously is not very anxious to tell the truth and admit to it. but we have lost in the bid for the destruction of Iran and a war for Iran's destruction.

And we've lost our position internationally as a result, I would argue. We are no longer this invincible, invulnerable superpower that we have been pretending to be since 1991. And I think Trump is in hell, frankly. Now, can he get out of it? You were talking about an abyss. I think he's been in free fall along with his administration. I would argue the entire American government for some time now. Ultimately, everyone will try to blame President Trump for everything is wrong,

but he shares a lot of that with Congress and the people that are sitting there. No one has stood up and tried to obstruct anything he's done. On the contrary, he's had almost universal support from everyone, because everyone has been bought and paid for by the Israel lobby, and the Zionist billionaires behind it. So I think we are staring a strategic defeat in the face that is revealed that we are not who we thought we were. The rest of the world has figured it out. There's a new revolution in military affairs.

It's a trite thing to say, but it's true. We are a 20th century military establishment with 20th century thinkers, if you want to dignify them with that word. And we're living in the 21st century. The world has changed, and there's an unwillingness to adapt to the change. to recognize what has altered in the international system as well as here at home. Do you think that the Pentagon recognizes that the war is lost and maybe everybody but President Trump and Vice President Vance and Secretary of Defense, Hegset, have been privately acknowledging that? Well, you've listened to the retired four stars and the retired four stars with very few

exceptions have been cheerleaders for the destruction that we've engaged in. So I wouldn't be in a rush to say that people in the Department of Defense, as I call it, as opposed to war, have figured it out. Some have, there's no question about it. Have most? It's hard to tell. I mean, what did we do after Vietnam? We suffered a strategic defeat in Vietnam. We quietly disappeared overnight, and then we refused to talk about it anymore. I think something similar is going to happen after this defeat, but it's not going to be possible because this defeat is a far greater consequence than what Vietnam did. Vietnam hurt us at home, but overseas it didn't make a great deal of difference. Most people thought we were crazy to become involved there to begin with.

This time, we've exposed ourselves for what we are. We have a very unprofessional military leadership and an unprofessional political class. These people are all equally clownish, not to be taken seriously. removing someone like Pete Hankseth, this is going to change anything. The entire institution needs to be overhauled and fundamentally reformed. That's going to take years. You don't change things overnight in military affairs. On the political side, it's going to take a long time to figure out that we're going to have to make some profound changes here at home in the United States as well. So I guess, to answer your question, the only people who are fooled at this point are here

in the United States, not overseas. Will the Pentagon be relieved if Hegseth is fired? I mean, stated differently, the president likes to blame things on other people and stated differently. Hegseth's mismanagement of the Pentagon has caused enormous angst, I suspect, amongst professionals whom you respect. We're not that many professionals over in the Department of Defense. I hate to be blunt. Most of these people are very disappointing. That's why I say you can take Pete Hengseth out.

It's not going to change anything in the short run. The generals don't like him. And I've been entertained by people on the left who are attacking left and right and trying to defend some of these senior officers that are being retired. There are no value at it. These people are vastly overrated. Many of them have contributed enormously to the destruction in Ukraine by offering Ukrainian's incredibly bad advice.

we've had bad advice on Iran. I wish I could point to somebody in particular who is a standout performer, a person of great character and integrity that had the foresight and the wisdom to say, Mr. President, don't do this. And if you do this, I can't be a part of it. So I'll offer my resignation because it would be wrong of me to stay on board with this because I don't believe in it. Well, that has to happen, Judge.

Right. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to occur. These people are all worried about how much money they can make in retirement. I've been getting calls from people overseas that have been in headquarters where generals were held up on the promotion list. And they openly said, well, I don't have to put up with this nonsense. I can get out and make lots of money right now working as a consultant for what's happening in Ukraine.

Come on. These people are awful. You're not talking about long-term professional soldiers. that care about the country and are devoted to the establishment they're part of. So it's very difficult for me to put a happy face on this particular dead rat. That's why I say take Pete Higgseth out, hang the blame on him. He was never qualified for the job anyway, Judge. No business being Secretary of Defense.

Yes, yes, I know that from my personal and professional interaction with him for a couple of years and we were both at Fox. You know, I mentioned earlier the vice president who pointedly said several times but recently at a rather acerbic press conference in the White House that this is not a war. That's more than words, Colonel. I mean, look at this. Chris, put the full screen up. Look at this beautiful, young, happy couple. He's dead. He was killed in the opening rounds of the war.

She applied for death benefits and the Pentagon said, no, you don't get the death benefits because it's not a war. How can the government treat young people in the military and their spouses like that? Well, with complete contempt, Congress is no different from the president. I'm sure somebody on the hill will try to stand up now and posture as deeply wounded in all of this, but where have they been? They don't care. This is the problem. We have treated the American military establishment as a group of mercenaries,

whose mission or objective is to unquestioningly go wherever they are sent and to die or be wounded quietly in the corner and make no complaint. That's nonsense. American soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines are not mercenaries. And while they have taken an oath of allegiance, They protect and uphold the Constitution to serve the American people, to obey the orders of the President and the officers appointed over them. That was always done with the understanding that they were defending the United States

and the United States strategic interests. It's patently obvious. That's not true. So now all of a sudden, you know, I'm sorry, we're not really at war. This isn't really about the United States. This has nothing to do with that. And you had the misfortune to be in the wrong place. at the wrong time. Thank you. Go to hell.

Wow. That's where we are. This is all got to stop. And the first person that should be up on the chair defending the American people and telling the Congress and the president that people have to be treated in a humane way in this connection, are the people in the Department of Defense? It's somebody like Higgsith. This should never have been allowed to happen. In the same week in which the panics,

hang on denied this young tragic widow death benefits for her husband's death. He should be alive. Let's face it. But in the same week, the President of the United States floated the idea of bribing voters with $5,000 checks if the Republicans maintain control of the Congress. How reprehensible is that? Well, it's reprehensible, but you know it's not new. How often are elected? elections mentioned in the United States Constitution. How often are they mentioned? Yeah. They're reposed in the hands of the states.

Yeah, but I mean, how often do they discuss them? Very little. That's right. Because we were never meant to be a democracy. We're a republic. Right. Now, I sent you a little anecdote that Dr. John Leak published earlier today about George Washington's first bid to run for office in the House of Burgesses in Virginia,

1755. And he was told, listen, you've got to spread some money around and buy people drinks. If you don't do that sort of thing and people aren't being handed free liquor, you're not going to get elected. We said, I'm not going to do that. I think that's wrong. Well, he wasn't elected. So he came back a year or two later and what did he do? He bought everybody drinks and he was handily elected. I'm somebody that doesn't think the voice of the people is the voice of God. I think we have to have a republic. But for a republic to work, the people, the people, People at the top have to be responsible, judge. They have to be qualified.

They have to be devoted to something higher than themselves. They have to be interested in something more than their pocketbooks. We don't have that right now. What we have is presidential TV. It's another manifestation of reality TV. Higgs-eth, Trump, Rubio, all these people. What are they doing? They're playing roles.

They're acting. So are the people on the hill. That's not what we need. We have to have a republic. We don't have one. We've run out of really good men. I hate to be blunt, but that's what it looks like to me. So where do we get them?

How do we fix this? It's not going to be easy. We, I would argue we are a dying empire, Colonel, where a republic facially, but not substantially. And the empire is controlled by the military industrial complex, by the Zionists, by the people that own the, the media and run the banks.

I mean, do you know any military people retired or active duty who've made an intellectually honest argument that Iran is a threat to the national security of the United States? Well, you put me in a difficult position there. You're saying honest. Said intellectually honest. How can I address anything if you're going to tell me or ask me whether or not it's honest? people do what they do to profit. People do what they do to advance themselves.

People do what they do because it's in their interest to do it as individuals. I don't know how many times I've heard a general officer tell me, if I can race to four stars and when I get out, I can make a million dollars the first year I'm out. What? What the hell are you talking about? What are you doing here? Why did you become an officer in the regular army or the Marines

or the regular Navy or anything else? It doesn't make any sense. I can tell you. you, however much people hate individuals like Curtis LeMay or George Patton or Douglas MacArthur, that is not the way they thought. They had no anticipation of retiring and becoming multimillionaires. There was no great military industrial complex to serve on a board or to pocket huge quantities of money for selling bad ideas and bad equipment. But that's what we've been doing. We've been doing both selling bad ideas and bad equipment as substitutes for strategy.

The notion of a strategic interest is lost. Just read all these documents on national strategy. Where is the strategic interest of the United States? Where is that enshrined? Where is that devised? Where is it explained? It isn't, you know, this business of spreading democracy around the world has been an excuse for military hegemony. and personal enrichment, financial dominance.

It's nothing to do with the interest of the American people and nothing to do with the interest, as you point out, of a republic. Well, Colonel, as I was flying out of Moscow, I don't think this was aimed at me personally. I'm just a pipsqueak. President Zelenskyy, looking for the right one here, Chris, I know you have it, to blow out of the skies Russian commercial airlines, Chris.

Today we want to issue a serious warning to every single airline that continues to utilize Russian airspace, to every insurer involved, and to everyone who still relies on key Russian airports. Please understand that the Russian sky is now becoming completely and utterly dangerous for all international travel. We urge you to take this threat seriously and reconsider your operations immediately. It is important that the relevant airlines which are currently flying to airports primarily in Moscow, St. Petersburg, and other key Russian destinations, hear this. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine and our relevant institutions will provide full information to international structures regarding the dangers in the Russian sky. There is no place for civil aviation among drones.

Who does he gain by that? He's one side of a two-sided coin. On the other side is Netanyahu. Both Zelensky and Netanyahu are now very desperate men. If you're desperate, you threaten Turks. You threaten to go to war with the Turks. And you do so because you still have control of the U.S. armed forces. If you're Zelensky, you're running out of money and people in time and opportunity.

You threaten everyone in the hopes that you can precipitate a wider war. That's why Foreign Minister Lavrov's comments were so important. From the very beginning, the Russians have done everything they could contain this conflict, to limit it. People have been complaining. Why haven't the Russians marched all the way to the Polish border? Well, it's not because they can't. It's because they don't want to. They're not interested in precipitating a wider war.

But when you listen to Zelensky and you look at the things that he and this regime have done becomes increasingly difficult for the Russians to rein themselves in, to limit what they're doing, but they continue to do it, which is a tribute to the Russian government. We, on the other hand, have been very foolish. We have followed that Zelensky prescription, only we followed it in the Middle East, and it's produced regional chaos and disaster. So Zelensky is doing what he's doing because it's his last ditch effort. Look, he's got members of his government, of the government.

the secret police and the other entities inside that government shooting at each other, threatening each other, assassinating each other. This is a government that's falling apart. And we're seeing to some extent similarities inside Israel with Netanyahu and his government. The point is these are failed operations, failed proxy wars. In the case of Ukraine, Ukraine is our proxy. It's the proxy of Washington and London and others in the West. In the case of Iran, we're the proxy force fighting for the Israelis and the Zionist billionaires. Colonel, thank you very much for your time. Deeply appreciate it. I'm running on inadequate sleep, as you can imagine. But I immeasurably enjoyed our conversation. I look forward to getting

back to our usual time and day next week. All the best, Colonel. Well, we're glad to have you back safely. Thank you, Colonel. Coming up tomorrow Friday, at 8.30 in the morning, Professor Jeffrey Sachs, at three in the afternoon, Pepe Escobar, at four in the afternoon, as usual, the end of the day, the end of the week, the Intelligence Community Roundtable. Then on Saturday at 1 o'clock, part one of my interview with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, and on Sunday at 1 o'clock, part 2. of that interview. Thank you for watching Judge Napolitano for judging Judging Freedom.