Judging Freedom - COL. Douglas Macgregor: Will Netanyahu Attack Iran?

Episode Date: April 24, 2025

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Whatever your stage, businesses that grow, grow with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash listen. Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, April 24th, 2025. Colonel Douglas MacGregor joins us now. Colonel, a pleasure as always. Thank you for coming. Thank you for accommodating my schedule. Colonel, what do you make of the decision by Secretary of State Rubio and Special Envoy Woodcoff not to attend the London so-called peace conference with the Russians, but instead to send General Kellogg of all people. Well, I guess it reflects an acute lack of interest in what's going to happen in London, and I think we have to in what's going to happen in London.

And I think we have to expect nothing is going to come out of it because there's not much evidence that Mr. Zelensky is willing to take any of it seriously and pursue any solution that involves Ukraine surrendering anything, especially territory. So I think that's the signal. anything, especially territory. So I think that's the signal. I mean, I am the last person to, uh, defend him, but can he agree to surrendering territory as massive as Crimea and the parts of the oblasts

now under Russian control and expect to stay alive? Well, this is the argument, but this has been the argument for at least two and a half years that if he showed any inclination whatsoever to compromise on these matters that he would be instantly killed by the radical nationalists that surround him. I mean, that may well be the case, but if that is the case, then that's further evidence for no attendance at the meeting as far as the Trump administration is concerned. Look, Judge, we've talked about this before.

We have really nothing to do with this. From the very beginning, President Trump unfortunately did not distance himself. He should have. When he finally decided that there was an argument for peace, that came in June of 2022 and thereafter whatever he said wasn't taken seriously because the administration pressed ahead. Then he took over and said he was going to end it in 24 hours. There was no chance of that happening

but that was a very stupid statement and then he relied on the input from people like Kellogg which And then he relied on the input from people like Kellogg, which was extremely ill-advised. Kellogg had a conflict of interest with his daughter's business interests in Ukraine and, frankly, knew nothing about the place, the people, the area, or the war. So here we sit. Furthermore, remember, this war would never have happened had we not mightily supported the Ukrainians or this regime that we helped to bring into power in 2014 to attack Russia because the whole idea was to build up a Ukrainian battery ram as you put it and hurled at Russia. Right. All crazy.

Why are we even involved? The best thing that President Trump could do was say, look, it's over. I'm not going to support this. I never wanted it. It's not my war. I'm suspending all aid and I'm pulling everybody out. Well, he didn't do that. So now what's next? I'm not really sure, but whatever happens, we look ridiculous again. And it is ridiculous to expect that the Russians would accept anything than their other than their baseline demands. Yeah, I mean, if you're Russian and everybody in the region knows

the history Crimea was never part of Ukraine. That's a lot of nonsense. And most of what we call Eastern Ukraine except for areas in the northern portion of eastern Ukraine, we're always Russian. Yeah, come on, this is a waste of time. The Europeans are beating a dead horse. At least we've had the sense at this point to walk away because what's important, judge, is to normalize relations with Moscow. That's what's important to us. What's your general view of the sort of chaotic nature of the Trump foreign policy?

Well, there is no strategy. You know, usually you have a national strategy. It has many components, military, economic and otherwise. What is it? Have we defined our interests? I don't think we have. I don't think we've defined any interest for years. And so everything tends to be emotionally charged and impulse driven. We have no vital strategic interest of any kind in eastern or western Ukraine. If we have any interest in Ukraine,

it's certainly west of the Dnieper River. And historically, that river line has marked the the Dnieper River. And historically that river line has marked the outer limits of what we called the West. Kiev after the destruction at the hands of the Mongols was really an outpost for the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth and remains so. And if you go back to the First World War, let's forget the second for the moment, and you look at the front lines in Eastern Europe that the Germans established, they never went beyond the Baltic literal in Poland, because they had no interest in anything else beyond that. That's where the war ended. I just don't think there is any strategic thinking of any kind whatsoever in the Trump administration, not that there ever was with President Biden either.

Colonel, before we get into Israel, what is your take on the latest with Secretary Hegseth? Do you have contacts in the military who've expressed a view of the secretary off the record? I mean, is this just media hype or is he really incompetent and is the Pentagon really in chaos and is that really dangerous? Well, it's all dangerous, but I wouldn't say it's limited to the Pentagon. I think the Trump administration is in kind of a meltdown for the very reason that I just outlined. There is no strategy. People were picked not on the basis of any demonstrated character, competence or intelligence. They were picked to hold key appointments in the Pentagon or in state because they were

ideologically committed to the war against Russia and the war against everyone in the Middle East who is unwilling to bend the knee to Israel. That's it. There was nothing else going on. And so that's what you got. And I think President Trump places far too much emphasis on whether or not someone who's appointed to a position like that does well on television.

I mean, it's always nice if they do, but is that the most important or one of the most important facets? I don't think so. Here's another Trump appointee who Trump, the president probably feels does well on television. Uh, this actually turned my stomach stomach even though I know this person very well, the United States ambassador to Israel, Mike Huckabee. Chris, cut number 12. Hello, I'm Mike Huckabee, U.S. ambassador to Israel. This past weekend, Dr. Hanan Balke,

who is the regional coordinator for the WHO for the Eastern Mediterranean region, called upon me to put more pressure on Israel to bring humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza. I appreciate the message from Dr. Balkhi. And today what I would like to suggest is that we work together on putting the pressure where it really belongs, on Hamas, to give us the opportunity to open up those humanitarian channels. So we call upon Hamas to sign an agreement so that humanitarian aid can flow into Gaza to the people who desperately need it.

When that happens and hostages are released, which is an urgent matter for all of us, then we hope that that humanitarian aid will flow and flow freely knowing that it will be done without Hamas being able to confiscate and abuse their own people by not allowing those resources to get to the people who desperately need it. Differently, the American ambassador to Israel in front of an American flag and an Israeli flag is condoning starvation as a means of war, a work run. Judge, the best that we can say is that whatever his brand of Christianity is, I'm certainly not part of it.

And I cannot conceive of any set of circumstances under which I as an American citizen would condone, legitimate, or promote mass murder and expulsion of millions of people from their homes in Gaza. It makes no difference to me whether the people there are Arabs, Palestinians, Muslims, Christians, or Jews, or Chinese, or German, or Russian, or Ukraine, or anything else. Israel is waging a war of annihilation against a group of people that they have condemned as subhuman, as animals. And not exclusively there, by the way. I haven't seen much evidence for mercy offered to anyone

in Lebanon or Syria or anywhere else in the region who stands up and opposes Israel and its dominance, it's in Germany. So I think he's being a little too clever by half. Yeah. This Israeli line of, well, it's everybody's fault, but ours, that's a lot of nonsense. How many times have the israelis rejected any sort of offer that came out of hamas? Even the most recent ones

Which I thought were quite impressive But if if you are waging a war of annihilation judge Nothing anyone offers is acceptable except suicide I'm going to get back to Israel in a minute. We just received a clip from representative Seth Moulton, who's also in the National Guard, I believe, in Massachusetts, who says he has spoken to troops about Hegseth. Tell me if this is credible.

Chris? Hegseth continues to lie about this. He's not taking accountability for his own actions. And as a result, he cannot be trusted. He's clearly not trusted by his own closest advisors. What do you think the troops think about it? Well, I know, because I've heard from a lot of them that they are disgusted by this behavior from the top person

in the Pentagon Pentagon because they know that they would be fired in a heartbeat, probably prosecuted criminally if they did what the Secretary of Defense has done and is now lying about himself. He's right. He is right. There's no question about that. But again, I go back to this before. Let's step back a minute. This man, Hegseth, who was appointed as Secretary of Defense, was never qualified.

He has no experience whatsoever that would justify it. His alleged performance over in Iraq, he actually ended up under someone that was once a lieutenant under my command in the 1990s and the reports that came back were that he was a ghost. He was never out there and whenever he was, he was posing for photographs and he spent much of his time watching movies on DVDs. I don't think that this man was anything other than what he was on Fox, a talking head. Now, he may have cultivated President Trump. President Trump is easily flattered. He likes people that flatter him. But there's nothing there. There's no understanding. You know, we were talking about strategy. Let me give you a quick anecdote about a Secretary of Defense who was actually

pretty damn sharp and professional and that was Bill Perry. And I had the privilege of listening to him speak on the phone to a senior military advisor during the Dayton Accords discussions and negotiations and he said three things. He said first, don't a bad agreement is is uh don't don't sign a bad agreement. No agreement is better than a bad agreement. Secondly, whatever you do, we don't want any territorial arrangements that leave uh Danzig corridors on the map. We we can't have that. That's just a catalyst for future conflict. And then finally, don't agree to anything that involves a permanent US military presence on the ground. We have no interest to justify, no strategic interest to justify our permanent presence in the Balkans. Now that was Secretary Perry.

Now you can take issue with him on other matters, but that was a, that was pretty damn sound strategic guidance from a man who knew what he was doing. You're not going to get anything like that out ofague-Seth. And President Trump should have known better. I think he probably does, but I don't think he cares. Again, you know, remember, President Trump always reminds everybody what they care to listen. Don't worry about it. I am the major decision-maker. Whatever anybody else thinks doesn't matter because I ultimately decide. He's getting very bad advice if he doesn't have serious

thinkers without with adequate character intellect and experience around him. Well, the presumption is that he wants the advice. Yeah, you know, I think you've got to consider the possibility that he'll listen to some things, but not necessarily everything and he'll make up his mind. You know that as well as I do. You were the one that told me about your experience with him in the Constitution.

Yes. Yes. I think that speaks volumes. It's very telling. I want to play another clip with apology for the likely flow of acid in your stomach. This is a woman. That's good. Chris and Sonia and I have never heard of this woman. Then they had to put her face into AI and AI helped them find out her name. Her name is Sharon Haskell, but she is a deputy foreign minister of the state of Israel and the chief spokesperson for the Israeli Foreign Ministry. This is an unbelievable view of Israel and the world, but here it is, cut number eight.

Iran cannot have nuclear weapon and this is what's in front of us. We understand it's not just a threat to Israel Israel but to the entire world. What about Israel? Israel is not posing a threat to anyone. We don't have any ambitions in any other country. Iran has ambition in the entire Middle East. Right. And so Iran is a threat to the entire world and Israel is at the front line. At the front line of stopping the worst enemy the world can and I don't understand that question With all respect the question was not Posing a threat on Israel has never provoked has never attacked

Unprovokingly a neighboring country or someone else this has always been on the defense of our country and our people. We have no ambition. Israel is the key for stabilizing the Middle East. So if Iran abandons its nuclear program, Israel will do the same? Israel is what's stabilizing the Middle East. Iran is what's destabilizing, arming and terrorizing the entire population around and so this arming Iran is not Israel's interest, it's your interests, it's international community's interest. Try and imagine what is happening right now in the Middle East

with Iran's nuclear weapons. It's not just a threat on Israel. So threat on the entire world. You got about two hours to deconstruct that. Well, perhaps, perhaps she should be shown the map that president or excuse me, prime minister Netanyahu routinely shows. He showed it at the, at the UN. He showed it in several venues and it shows that Israel is controlling everything from effectively the Suez Canal to Damascus, and then further south into parts of Jordan, and of course, you know, southern Lebanon.

So if Israel has no such aspirations or pretensions, why is the Prime Minister of Israel routinely showing everyone this map and telling us that it is in our interest to bankroll, support and assist in the conquest of all of this territory so that Israel effectively exercises hegemony over the region. And again, you know, this is the problem with Iran. You know, Iran is not a danger to the world, not a danger to us. You're not going to find very many people to say it. There it is, beautiful, wonderful. Right.

I mean, this is a sort of lunacy that passes for serious commentary. I listened to a woman named Hausdorff, a Jewish woman who holds UK citizenship, apparently, who essentially took the same position. That is the line. Everyone is following that line. That is the line of the Trump administration. How Israel's behavior and activities and expansion will promote stability in the Middle East

is a mystery of the Knesset and a former defense minister under Benjamin Netanyahu, posted on X that American sources tell him that Donald Trump is getting sick and tired of Netanyahu. At the same time, Yair Lapid, who's the opposition leader in the Knesset, says that we should all expect, regrettably, Jews killing Jews in the near future. And that tool of the Israelis, who calls himself the head of the PLO, is called for Hamas to throw down their arms.

How bad are things going over there? Well, first of all, Alistair Crook knows much more about the internal workings of Israel than I do, so I'll defer to him. But my impression is that Israel is on the edge of civil war. But there have been times in the past when things like this happened. Back in 1948, there were armed gangs that were there to suppress any Jews that did not support what Israel was doing in 1948, 47. This sort of thing has happened in the past. And remember that Prime Minister Netanyahu has been very aggressive in his opposition to anyone

in Israel who advocates anything other than direct confrontation and wholesale destruction of everyone in the region that doesn't agree with them. And for that matter, I think globally, anyone who disagrees with the Israeli state and its supporters here in the United States is now clearly an anti-Semite and is richly deserving of destruction. All you have to do is ask anyone in Mr. Netanyahu's cabinet and that's the answer you're gonna get.

Is Netanyahu smart enough to know that if Trump says no on attacking Iran, he cannot successfully do it on his own? No, absolutely not. He knows that if he were to unleash an attack, given the powerful influence that he exerts inside the Beltway, the enormous support for whatever he wants to do on the Hill and people actually close to Trump who are no less supportive, will inevitably drag us into the fight. So the assumption is that as long as we say no, the Israelis will do nothing is simply wrong. I do not exclude that as a possibility for a second,

that he could not launch strikes against Iran and then immediately call to us and say, the Iranians are responding, you have to help us. And no doubt we would help them and be involved in the regional war. Unless Iran responds with a fusillade sufficient enough so that there's nothing left to help. That could happen but I think he's betting heavily that we'll intervene to stop that before it does. Colonel MacGregor, thank you very much. My dear

friend. Much appreciated as always. Can we talk about nice things next time? I probably will find where are we going to find nice things? We'll we'll look for them. Yeah. Alright. Thanks. Thank you, Colonel. All the best. Bye bye. I wish we

could talk about nice things coming up on all of these things, even the not so nice ones, at three o'clock, Professor John Mearsheimer, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom.