Judging Freedom - Col. Karen Kwiatkowski: How to Stop Genocide

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

Col. Karen Kwiatkowski: How to Stop GenocideSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Save $80 with code SPACE80 at Talkspace.com. Thanks for watching! Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, March 19th, 2024. Lieutenant Colonel Karen Kwiatkowski joins us again. We were on together earlier, but the internet gremlins interceded. We have since gotten rid of them, and we have a nice new clear signal between us. Karen, thank you very much for joining us. I had been asking you about, I began by asking you about Senator Schumer's statements attempting to distance himself from Prime Minister Netanyahu. Let's watch what Senator Schumer actually said, and then I want your thoughts on it. Prime Minister Netanyahu has lost his way by allowing his political survival to take the precedence over the best interests of Israel. He has put himself in coalition with far-right extremists like Ministers Smotrich and Ben

Gavir, and as a result, he has been too willing to tolerate the civilian toll in Gaza, which is pushing support for Israel worldwide to historic lows. Israel cannot survive if it becomes a pariah. As a lifelong supporter of Israel, it has become clear to me the Netanyahu coalition no longer fits the needs of Israel after October 7th. So some of what he said, Israel cannot survive as a pariah, is true. It probably can't survive as a pariah. But who knows what his motivation is? It could be something as base as trying to help Joe Biden in Michigan, or it could be something as serious as trying to send a signal to Netanyahu that we're not going to pay for this genocide. Of course, he's in a position

where he can do a lot more than send signals when it comes to genocide. He's the most powerful Democrat in the Congress. Yeah, that's true. There's a lot more that our Congress could do and our government could do to stop what's going on in Gaza. I mean, what can we do to stop genocide? Genocide motivated by religious fervor or pseudo-religious fervor. Yeah. Well, you know, it's a complex problem and the people in Israel know this and the people in the Middle East know it. And some Americans recognize it. But if you don't we don't we don't have to pay for the genocide. We don't have to fuel it with the weapons and the aid and the taxpayer dollars that are going to Israel under an agreement that we have to fund them at, I think, three point eight billion a year plus additional funds, that can be suspended if we are in a disagreement about what it is that they are doing, what it is that Netanyahu is doing. Because what they're doing is, I think,

meets the criteria. I don't think, I know it meets the criteria that the world and that individuals and that countries use in defining genocide. That criteria has been met. It was met some time ago in Gaza, and yet we have continued to flow weapons and money and provide UN Security Council top cover for Israel 100% of the time. We have rejected any criticism of Israel, and the things that our UN ambassador has put forth, what the US government has put forth as an acceptable language of maybe mild criticism, that's not happening. We're not pushing that through. We don't have a winning hand to play. We are simply protecting Israel's government, the same government that Schumer is criticizing. Our government has been protecting 100% of the

time in the global arena via the UN. And of course, we have flowed and accelerated the flow of weapons and cash to Israel in order to help them do this genocide. So if we didn't do that, you have to kind of think that it wouldn't be conducted as it has been being conducted. Here's a press conference in which Jake Sullivan is being asked, cut number two, Chris. We understand that the president spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu for the first time in 32 days. Did Joe Biden threaten to cut off military aid? You can probably guess what the answer is, but you'll hear the question and see the rather glib, ungratifying response. During the call, did the president threaten at any point to withhold military aid to Israel if Israel moves into Ra'af or a famine does ensue in Gaza?

The president didn't make threats. What the president said today was, I want you to understand, Mr. Prime Minister, exactly where I am on this. I am for the defeat of Hamas. I believe that they are an evil terrorist group with not just Israeli but American blood on their hands. At the same time, I believe that to get to that, you need a strategy that works. And that strategy should not involve a major military operation that puts thousands and

thousands of lives, civilian, innocent lives at risk. And Rafa, there is a better way. Send your team to Washington. Let's talk about it. We'll lay out for you what we believe is a better way. And I will leave it at that. Never looks in the camera. No, you can't.

Not interested in saving a human life, funding slaughter and trying to pay for the fortunate few that escaped the slaughter. Professor Sachs is coming on with me in about 45 minutes. He's got a lot of statistics, which he'll interpret for us. They're heartbreaking. The numbers of people dying of starvation. There's five categories of starvation. There are hundreds of thousands in the fifth category, which means they only have days left to live because the Israelis that are slaughtering them won't let aid in. If Joe Biden and Jake Sullivan were serious about aid. There'd be hundreds of trucks there.

What is the IDF going to do? Fire on American trucks? Of course not. That's right. Well, I mean, the assumption is that they will fire on, that they'll take our weapons and our money and our UN top cover. And when we bring trucks of aid in, they will fire on our trucks with our own weapons. Apparently, that's what Joe Biden believes. The better way that I assume Jake Sullivan is talking about is to stop it, to stop immediate ceasefire, end it all, open up the borders for medical and food and water aid, health aid, before even more, you know, millions die. I mean, that's what's at risk here.

And what is Jake doing? Oh, well, we'd like his team to fly into Washington and we'll share some of our American thoughts about what should be done. No, no. He is evading all responsibility. And unfortunately, it's not just the pariah state that Israel is becoming and already is in the eyes of many. We ourselves have committed this genocide. We've done this and we are joining with Israel in that pariah status. Why do you think that no predominantly Muslim countries are either interceding militarily or at least sending aid? I know Jordan, there's some famous pictures of the King of Jordan on a transport plane pushing food out over the sea with a parachute on it, but none of this has been substantial enough to alleviate the famine. There are a billion Muslims within a three-hour flight of Israel. There are a half dozen, maybe a dozen, if you count the smaller ones, countries in the region, why no aid?

It's a good question, but I think part of it is if you have Israel and the United States, which has opened up its military capacity, its logistics capacity to the government of Israel, what are you risking by driving your small country's convoy of trucks over? Or what are you risking if you fly one of the neighbors in the region. Are we saying, you know, have we invited them to do it? Have we offered to provide them protection from Israeli fire if they do it? I don't know. And I will say a part of me, a very critical part of me, believes that Schumer's right, Israel is going to be a pariah state and it cannot live, it cannot survive in that format after this is over. And that many of the much of the Arab world and the Muslim world is what is willing to sit and watch that happen and have Israel face what it's going to face. And that is its own destruction. It is a self-destruction because it's by their own choices. And by the way, I have to say something. I didn't understand why Jake didn't mention that Hamas was a creation of Netanyahu's own government.

And had received lots of stuff. So Jake knows this. So when he wants to point the finger, oh, Hamas is so bad, we have to get rid of them. It's like, well, Jake, you know, you could have nipped it in the bud some time ago, if that's what you were concerned about. And I don't, I don't see, I don't see honesty coming out of our government at all. How do you, you know, you're a former career military. There are special forces on the ground. We believe they're in Israel. They're not in Gaza. They're not invading, but they're helping to do this. I mean, American troops facilitating genocide, helping to slaughter innocents. Are they in a position to say, no, send me somewhere else?

Because I have a moral revulsion at the idea of slaughtering innocents. Yeah. What a good troop mentality. We don't know how many are there. It could be a dozen. It could be a few hundred. I don't know. in the sense that they have been cultured in this country in their education and their training to be not soft-hearted, but to be very much against the abuse of people, very conscious of

injustice, and also a little bit less likely to maybe do what they're told without questioning it. And I think that's a good thing. So those soldiers, if we have them there in country in Israel and possibly even forward in Gaza, I think that they will be witnesses if they're participating in something or they could be like many of our soldiers. They come back after having done terrible evil things that cannot be supported and they commit suicide,

either the slow kind or the fast kind when they get back home. So either of those options exist. We may get whistleblowers and then we may just get people who drink themselves to death or commit suicide because the guilt that they feel. I don't know, I don't know.

I mean, we still got Julian Assange locked up. This government is very afraid of people Knesset, it's the Israeli parliament, Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on Tuesday that we all need to stand united against the United States position, that we shouldn't go into Rafah. Do you think there is a fracture, there it is, do you think there is a real fracture between the United States and Israel. The journalists that we have on, Max Blumenthal, Aaron Matei, Anya Parampol, who have lived in Israel and studied the mentality of the people running the government, say that there will never be a fracture between Israel and the Biden administration, that Joe Biden is a serious, even though he's Roman Catholic, nominally, is a serious, serious Zionist going back to when he was a young man.

Yeah. And I think Biden has admitted that. I mean, he stated that himself, that he is a strong Zionist. So yeah, I think the Zionists that. I mean, he stated that himself, that he is a strong Zionist. So, yeah, I think the Zionists are standing together. But what the real problem is, is Zionism is not to be a Jew. That's not Judaism. Zionism is political construct that has been adopted by Jews and Gentiles around the world. So, yeah, I think the rift may be between Jewish, practicing Jews, faithful Jews or secular Jews and Zionism as a concept and those who are pushing Zionism. Because the issue about going into Rafah, this is the final, I hate to use this term, but it's the

final solution to Gaza. That's where the people have been crowded to. And that is where the rest of them will die. And then this land that Israel believes is theirs will be taken by Israel. I mean, this agenda is very much spoken openly of throughout Israel. It is the Zionist agenda. So Zionists are not divided in this at all. And that would include Joe Biden. I think, I think Jews around the world are divided because the religion, like all religions, you know, it, it, it wants people to be good. That's, that's what, that's what impels all religion. So religious people around the world are appalled by what is happening, really due to a political hijack of a particular religion. And that is this political hijack is

Zionism. I live in Northern New Jersey. There's a big controversy going on. It's not near where I live. It's maybe 40 miles or so away. A synagogue, a Jewish synagogue, invited two Israeli real estate agents to come here and make presentations. And they made presentations of real estate that can only be bought by Jews, which is a violation of New Jersey law, even to offer a product. Could you imagine if they're offering a product that could only be bought by whites? And apparently now, according to the latest newspaper stories, they're offering real estate in Gaza. They are saying that it will soon be confiscated and they'll be able to sell it. In my opinion, this is reprehensible. I don't know what the New Jersey law enforcement is going to do. If anything about

this, I believe these real estate agents have since gone back to Israel. The controversy is brewing because what happened was an outrage. And a lot of Jewish Americans are outraged at this as well, that their temple, their synagogue was used for this purpose. Are you surprised? I'm surprised that they didn't think that people wouldn't raise their eyebrows here in this country when they come and say we're selling just to Jews and it's Palestinian land or it's new land that we have occupied. Because I think in Israel, they can talk more freely about occupation, confiscation, things that are just for Jews. I think in Israel, they have an ability to converse openly without criticism. And in this country, you know, we don't, we're very sensitive to, you know, we have the 14th Amendment to protect everyone. You know, we want all people equal, equal access.

We don't want discrimination via race or religion. This is very clear in our American culture. So I think I'm surprised that they didn't have enough sense to recognize that America is not Israel. We have different rules. We have a constitution. It's something that they don't have in Israel. We have a tradition that is very, in many ways, secular, you know, in this country. And they don't that's not that's the opposite of Zionism, which is a religious political union. So I'm surprised they didn't recognize that. And I think, you know, we kind of hang around the same people all the time. And so we think that. We think, oh, well, we can go to a synagogue and it'll be just like a synagogue or any other

gathering place in Israel. And it's not. It's one more piece of evidence that what's going on in Gaza has been long planned. And I think it's evidence that will be used if it ever comes to it, used against Netanyahu for allowing October 7th to happen by Hamas, which was his creation, something he funded in his party, funded his government, funded for some years as a counterweight to the Palestinian Authority and others, and to leave your borders undefended like they did on October 7th, and to have that happen as an excuse, really. I mean, I think the evidence is going to come out that this was an excuse to take action in Gaza, slaughter or remove all the Palestinian residents. They're all 2.2 million of them. And then not have to worry about Egypt or anything on that side. And they could focus on expansion north and east. I think this is a political ploy. And I think they speak about it in Israel much more freely and assume these things more freely than we do in this country.

And in this country, we don't we don't think of that way. Now, maybe what do you think will happen if the IDF attacks Hezbollah? I mean, the last time they did that, they went right. The IDF, they weren't running home. It was 10 years ago, but that's that's what happened. Yeah, I think, again, this is this is what I think Schumer may be speaking to, although he may not be thinking about this completely. But, yeah, there is a clear possibility of an actual Israeli defeat

on the battlefield the next time it goes up against its allied neighbors, its neighbors which are allied with each other in fighting against Israel. And you know, they're complaining. Israel, the IDF is complaining already that they're running low on certain types of munitions that they get from the United States. There was accusations in the newspaper, in the Post or whatever, saying that the American was slow rolling the deliveries. And of course, we denied that. I don't know if it's true or not true, but we do know from our Ukrainian situation that our stocks of many munitions are low. And a lot of this stuff has been used up in Ukraine. The whole

world, the Western world that would be an ally with Israel against a united or combined Arab offensive of some type, we've disarmed ourselves in many ways. So, yeah. You know, it could be the reason they're not providing aid right now is the Arab countries are communicating and thinking about what comes next. And that would be very strategic of them. That would be very wise of them. Let me just transition before we finish. What do you think comes next in Ukraine? They seem to be on their last leg. Yeah. I mean, I think you have to, at some point, Washington, D.C. is going to have to start listening to what Vladimir Putin has been saying, because he has never lied to us so far. I mean, they don't like Putin and they think he's a devil, but he has not lied in any way, shape or form in what he is saying about Ukraine from the very beginning of the invasion prior to that, the Minsk Accords, all of this, everything he says is true. And now what he's saying,

what Putin is saying, is he wants a, it's not a demilitarized zone, but a sanitized zone from which or with which no attacks could reach Russian cities from territory east of that sanitized zone, which would be land to the west of what they already have in the territories that have become Russian. So that's what he's saying. And still, we don't invite Russia to peace talks. So until the United States wakes up to the reality, which maybe they are, maybe they're not, but until our government recognizes that this must be resolved at a negotiating board, or else it will be resolved militarily, and the only people that will succeed with a military resolution are the Russians, because they have, compared to us, unlimited resources. This is cut number five, Chris. Here's what he said about this very subject, Karen, last week. We are ready to use weapons, including any weapons, including those you mentioned,

if we are talking about the existence of the Russian state, about damaging our sovereignty and independence. As to the states that say they have no red lines regarding Russia, they should realize that Russia won't have any red lines regarding these states either. You know, I don't know if the West takes him seriously, but they should. When Ukraine collapses and it's on the verge of doing so, that means that Russia has defeated NATO, doesn't it? It does. It does. And NATO has wasted the resources that it had in attempting to help Ukraine, attempting to feed this proxy war. So NATO has been defeated and it is left

both politically divided and militarily poorly resourced, it could be a really good thing because NATO should not exist in any form that we would recognize. As an organization, it is long past its usefulness. It is really a troubling and an expensive organization. It has no real mission and it's done nothing but create havoc in Europe and around the world. So it would be good if NATO was defeated. That's a positive. But what will we say? Yes, we will say NATO was defeated because it clearly, it is already. It is already. But I think we should listen to what Putin says. Listen to his words. Try not to say, I hate Putin, he's the devil, but just listen to what he's saying. His track record is clear, and this will help us

understand what needs to come next. Karen Kwiatkowski, thank you very much, my dear friend. Double duty today with the session that we had that had gremlins in it, but the gremlins are history history and you're as sharp and charming and right on the mark as ever. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you next week. Okay, thank you, Judge. Of course.

Coming up in just about 25 minutes, if you're watching us live at 4.30 Eastern, Professor Jeffrey Sachs. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.