Judging Freedom - COL. Lawrence Wilkerson : A Disaster to Invade Venezuela.

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

COL. Lawrence Wilkerson : A Disaster to Invade Venezuela.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for our judging freedom. Today is Thursday, December 18th, 2025. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson joins us now. Colonel Larry, a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you for joining us. I want to spend a little bit of time talking about the president's, I don't even know if it's a plan, Larry, but he talks.

about invading Venezuela. We all thought he was going to announce it last night when Tucker Carlson revealed that a member of Congress told Tucker that the White House told him that the president was going to announce an invasion last night. As we know, it didn't happen. But before we get there, what do you think the international community's reaction is to what Trump has been doing? the seizure and the high seas of an oil tanker that holds 100 million barrels of oil, the killing of non-combatants in the high seas, now up to 99 deaths, the naval blockade of Venezuela, which you would know this better than I, which my understanding is that's an act of war. What does the international community think of this behavior?

Yes, the blockade is an act of war. The Cubans have for a long time called it a buquerro, not the embargo because they think it's an act of war. They just don't have the wherewithal to respond. Yes, it's an act of war. So are the other things we've done to include marshalling force in such a blatant way and saying what we're saying about the potential use of that force. All of that is against international law and certainly against the founding principles of the United Nations, which we had the most hand in writing and making.

So what the rest of the world thinks of it, I think, is increasingly clear. They're moving in various ways and in various blocks, and with greater alacrity in some places than others, but away from us. They're moving away from what we have called for years now, the rules-based international order, largely constructed by us from the WTO to the IMF to the world, bank, you name it. All of this constructed for our benefit, both in terms of trade and in terms of security. They're moving away from it. And before long, and I thought I was going to be dead, Judge,

I'm 81 in January. I thought I was going to be dead before I would see this, but I think I might even live to see this. Before long, we are going to be isolated on the world stage, much the way Israel, unbeknownst to Beebe, apparently, is isolated on the world stage today. And interestingly, even Beebe is involved in this. He has emissaries in the east, as it were, looking for possibilities for Israel to actually shift its flag away from the empire and to the burgeoning powers in the east, principally China. So he's no stupid fool. I've never called him a fool or stupid.

he's very smart. He's evil. He's evil to the core, but he's a very smart man, and that makes his evil even worse. But he's looking to the east now, too. Why has he encouraged Trump to invade Venezuela? I mean, what do the Israelis think? Why is the Mossad there, or is there nowhere where the Mossad doesn't go? Forgive the double negative. Judge, nowhere where there's oil that they don't go. Rest assured of that. They live on and have made it a first objective of their strategic approach to the world since Bibi was finance minister and was dealing with Mark Rich and Glencourt and stealing oil from Saddam Hussein's UN Oil for food program and getting it at discounted prices for Israel

for 15 years. That's one reason Netanyahu could get elected prime minister because they saw what he did as finance minister and wanted more of it, a better economy. And that cheap energy got it for him so what he's doing in venezuela is what trump is doing but it's more serious for bibi which is why he bought machado i think she's actually working for msad and he wants to that oil too he wants access to that oil hmm um trump actually stated that venezuela stole our oil and stole our Now, they surely did some nationalization of American corporate property, but the oil didn't belong to the corporations or to the United States. The oil is a natural resource.

Not at all. And of course, we've had other countries do that to us, too, most prominent of which Cuba originally and then Iran. And though we have taken draconian action towards both, I don't see us having a blockade off their goes based on a major aircraft carrier and all kinds of surface combatants and troops arrayed around the region. This is because we can do it. That's one of the things you always have to look at when the United States goes after somebody. It's because we can do it. It's like the Athenians, you know. Why are you doing this? Why are you killing all the women and children and everything else?

Because we can. That's the way we look at it. We would not be doing this to a power that could act back. Why do presidents kill because they can? Because they can. And then, And this president is double down on that one. When you stated earlier that even Israel might look to the east, and when I characterized the seizure of the oil, the blockade, the murders of the people of the high seas, this is not the consensus of the American people. This is not the action of the United States Congress. This is one man, one man known not to think clearly, one man known not to have a philosophy of law or governance, one man who says one thing one day and then does the opposite, the next.

Why doesn't Congress do something about this? Well, a lot of supine people, Judge. As good as they could do was a war powers resolution privileged in the House yesterday, I think. It came very close because three Republicans deserted. Our friend, let's see, Massey, of course, Green and Bacon, all deserted and went over to the Democrats. The vote was 211 and 213. And this is a privileged resolution that would say at least in terms of the sense of the Congress, do not start a war with Venezuela.

Wow. I think Senator Paul has tried the same thing in the Senate. It had a majority, but it didn't have the 60 votes. So it had, you know, all the Democrats and him and a few other Republicans, you know, there were two independents in the Senate. They generally vote with the Democrats, Angus King and Bernie Sanders. You're right. I think they're afraid of being in his political and verbal crosshairs. But I think that they're. that fear is going to be dissipated, the crazier he gets. Absolutely. And what's happening right now, I think, is positive in the sense that Alabama's leading the pack, apparently, amongst the MAGA disenchanted. And you wouldn't think Alabama would do this, but it's not so counterintuitive when you look at the defense industry.

And you also look at the incredible vulnerability Alabamaans have to any cancellation of the Obama health care. premiums. That's going to devastate Alabama. The figures are just colossal in terms of percentage of population of the state that is not going to have any health care really after this. So Alabama, West Virginia, Mississippi may send Democrats to Congress. You might be right. You might be right. But I don't know that that's any better. That's my Well, that brings another, a whole other, as you would say, set of problems. And this is what happens when the government creates entitlements and makes them finite.

People plan their lives on the entitlements. In this case, it's not a luxury. It's not a natural right, but it's not a luxury. It's health care. Yeah. I said on another podcast this morning, Rachel Blevins, I said, look, I'm all four, Stevens or the Speaker of the House getting his act together and finding a way to compromise and continue the payments. However, you have to realize at the same time that you're just

deepening the real problem this country has, which is colossal debt. Correct. Unless you're willing to take from that defensive part trillion dollars and move a little over, you are just deepening our predicament. Colonel, as we speak, the Europeans are deciding not whether, but how they can steal $300 billion, more or less, a worth of Russian bank deposits in Belgian banks. The Prime Minister of Belgium, I don't know anything about it as politics or personality or past, but on this issue, he understands property rights and he understands the banking. system, and he has said no, no, and no again. Now, I don't know if his no is enough to stop this Kayakalis, Ursula von der Leyen, Mers, Starmur, Macron, orchestrated onslaught.

I'm worried about that, Judge, and I'm worried about two other things. Meritz has made it very clear that his strategy to rebuild a very, very moribund, even collapsing economy in Germany is to use the 5% that he's guaranteed Trump with regard to defense spending to re-energize Germany's military. You had the CEO of Rhine Medal, you've heard that name before, who was on the air the other day about 72 hours ago saying, I'm going to overtake Lockheed Martin and Grumman one day. That's not a good sign. The second thing I heard about yesterday, we have a nation.

recent movement within certain members of NATO to create a situation in the Baltic, whereby they go after a Russian tanker, much the way Trump went after the Venezuelan tanker, take the tanker, they think, and confiscate it. Russia has already said what it will do. And we're talking about a potential Article 5 incident here, which is extremely dangerous, even though Trump has backed away from NATO quite a bit. He hasn't backed away from Article 5. I would imagine if a Russian tanker is seized, the country from which the assailants came will be the recipient of an arrestnik.

I would think so, too. I think they're thinking about a consortium, and that's even more dangerous. You mean more than one country involved in the seizure. Yes. Wow. In other words, it would have to see what Trump has started. Yeah. your uh and he doesn't know it judge he doesn't know it he doesn't you're right he doesn't because he listens to

stephen miller and sebastian gorka he doesn't listen to you and ritter and and mcgregor and sax and meersheimer mcgregor mcgregor says colonel mcgrger mertz is the most dangerous german chancellor since hitler i think he's right i think he's right and based on what i just said right i heard him say and i also heard the CEO of Ride Medal. He's dangerous. He's a dangerous man. This is what Helmut Cole and Colin Powell and H.W. Bush and Jim Baker and Shepard Nazi Gorbachev's foreign minister and Gorbachez himself and Meet Iran and Thatcher and Major and I could go on. This is what we talked about when Cole, the German in

Bonn at the time, expressed real concern about moving the capital back to Berlin. though he really relished doing it, as you might imagine, and even more concern over reuniting and being in Russia's face. That's why we gave them the promise that it would go no further east. That eased Cole's fears. So, Mertz, two days ago, in the presence of Macron-Stormer, I don't know if the crazy ladies were there, von der Leyen and Kayakalas, but Mertz and Stormer were there. But more importantly,

Krishna and Whitkoff were there, stated his understanding of a peace proposal, which was truly absurd. 800,000 man Ukrainian army serviced by U.S. intelligence and supported by EU troops, no membership in NATO. Now, you're ready for this? The demilitarization of 150 miles, into Russia, I can't even say this with a straight face of the Russian-Ukrainian border. Okay, here's my point. When he said it, Wittkoff and Kushner didn't say anything. Yeah, they saw the dollar signs evaporating. That's all they're-

How could they not say, most respectfully, Chancellor, there is no way Putin would even take this into consideration. I think they're a little bit afraid of the. the big guy if they said something that dramatic and that's straightforward. They're real estate agents. Do the others take them seriously? Well, they take them seriously because they're speaking for the guy in Washington that everybody is on pins and needles about. What legitimate military targets could the United States Navy attack in Venezuela?

actually probably not very much that isn't already in disarray that's why i thought we were going to make a deal because moduro is a winner if in comes chevron exon whomever if they come in and refurbish as rapidly as possible and mostly at their expense because they know what they're going to get out of it is very decrepit and falling apart oil infrastructure that's what's really hurt Venezuela's economy plus our sanctions. But I don't see that happening now. Listening to Trump, I thought he was smart enough to make a deal. I thought he really was the man for the art of the deal and so forth.

And I thought he would come out looking like a winner. And he doesn't care if Maduro looks like a winner to his own people or to the people that follow him. But I don't think that now. I have to disabuse myself of that positive thinking and thinking that we really are serious about using military force in some way. Well, if we use military force, what will, what can Maduro's military do? Can they sink the Gerald R. Ford?

Can they stop missiles and drones from coming out of the sky? It all depends on what Russia and, secondarily, what China have given them. I've heard different reports on that. I don't know who to trust on it. If they have given them significant numbers of high-velocity missiles of the character that I think would be if they gave them to them, then Gerald R. Ford is in great jeopardy, yes. Wow. And what are the consequences of a land invasion, Colonel?

I don't see Trump doing that. Recall Syria in his first administration. I think Trump loves recall the strike in Iran, the strike in Syria when he killed the other terrorist leader. I think he loves air power. And I think he thinks, and many people in the Pentagon would agree with him, especially wearing blue, that air power can do anything and it can intimidate in particular. And so he'll probably go after the things that Maduro holds deer like his own life, wherever he might be. And with our intelligence assets and Mossade assets in Venezuela, in Caracas and the Virens, I suspect we probably have a good idea of where he is at any given time. So we'll probably go after pinpoint strikes. That's what I would guess we would start

with anyway. Here's what the New York Times reported just a few minutes ago, Colonel, excuse me, for reading it directly. Venezuela and Navy escorts vessels in defiance of Trump's blockade threat. Pentagon officials surprised by President Trump's orders scrambled a work out of plan to halt sanctioned tankers as Nicholas Maduro, Venezuela's leader, vowed resistance, which apparently came in the form of Venezuela and Navy escorting the tank. U.S. Navy wasn't prepared for that. They didn't think he would defy them. That doesn't surprise me. These people have no imagination anymore. They're all portrayuses. They're all, they just have no imagination whatsoever, and they think they're all

powerful. That's a real problem in the leadership of the U.S. military, across the services without exception, even the Marine Corps. That said, I don't think their surface combatants would stand a chance against our surface combatants or against Gerald Ford's surface combatants meaning ships on the water right or submarines i'm sure we've got submarines down there and the most lethal thing in the ocean is a submarine especially for a surface combatant and the aircraft off of gerald Ford and other things that we have i wouldn't give a fig for a venus way he's going to destroy a country large a government and kill people. Yes.

Without a declaration of war from the Congress, a fellow member of the UN in violation of the UN treaty, which we wrote. Is there anything this doesn't violate, Judge? There's a lot that this violates. There's a lot. International law, federal law, the U.S. Constitution, the Geneva Conventions, the United Nations Charter. There's two other treaties that name.

of which I forget that the limit American that we signed and wrote limited American offensive weaponry. I want you to listen to the defense minister of Venezuela. Chris, just play up to the part that we watch. Watch this, Colonel. Tell me if he's right or wrong. Cut number 21. We have risen up in rebellion against the nefarious, shameful actions of North American imperialism, which, as I have already said, wants to subjugate us based on lies. This is the conduct, Seloni, this is the historical conduct of North American imperialism. Under false pretenses, they invaded Yugoslavia. Under false pretenses, they invaded Iraq.

Under false pretenses, they attacked Libya. Under false pretenses, they attacked Syria, and so on and so on and so on. pretty true really i mean yes yes it is pretty accurate he left out afghanistan because i guess he thought we had provocation for that one but we didn't stay there 22 years on that provocation right right i mean it sounds nice it will arouse his people but if he doesn't have the human beings on the hardware uh how's he going to resist an onslaught trump has 15 ships out there and as you say submarines that we don't even know about pretty good armada but the armada is at sea and at sea is where the action is going to be and as bad as that will be Venezuelan ships and davy jones locker and a lot

of dead people i wonder if you'll rescue the survivors or shoot them in the water oh boy but with all of that you still wait a minute wait a minute colonel rules of engagement are stupid according to the secretary of defense. He said that you got it. Every starred and flagged officer in the United States military you and I watched them. Yes. They'll act just like the

Israelis did when they attack U.S.S. Liberty. Wow. Shoot them. Kill everyone. Suppose Trump orders a land war. He's got 20,000 troops there, 18,000 army and 2,000 Marines.

Yep. And that's what I was going to say. The sea battle may go our way, probably will. But then we've got to mount the land. And when we do that, Katie bar the door, because we will be there forever trying to arrest the guerrillas and everybody else. The monkeys will be armed and everything will come out after us continuously and incessantly. And they'll use our own ordinance to make IEDs to kill us on the roads and then the highways. You know, you can't make this stuff up. It'll be Vietnam. sometimes too.

Here's Sergei Lavrov, the most highly respected foreign minister on the planet, the foreign minister of Russia, two days ago talking about America and Venezuela. Chris cut number 17. As for the United States behavior, including the Caribbean, well, of course, we almost always of the countries cannot accept that. Apart from the Europeans, we are very much concerned by the actions of the U.S. Navy and by the jingoese statements by the Pentagon that in addition to the unlawful actions on striking the civilian vessels without any judicial actions in the Caribbean, they now plan the land operation. Of course, all of that.

undermines the hopes that one can try to have a settlement under the current international system. All of that undermines the hopes one might have for a settlement under the current international situation. I guess he's talking about the communications from and between the Kushner, Wittkoff, and whoever they talk to on the Russian side. What a sad, what a sad state of affairs as we enter the Christmas season. The state of affairs, no matter what season. Well, remember December 7, 1941, this is a situation that reminds me of all the history I am imbued with as a military strategy. of people walking towards a conflict that will be far greater, deeper, and more profound

than any of them imagine, with basically, as Barbara Tuckman so well put it, wooden-headed people at the head of the marching. Wow. We'll leave it at that, Colonel. We have a short week next week because Christmas is on Thursday. I hope that you can join us. By the way, Colonel, and everyone watching, as of this morning,

judging Freedom had 99,000, 500,000 views in 2025. So one of you watching now, probably tomorrow over the weekend or on Monday, will be the 100 millionth viewer. For the second year in a row, we will have reached that number, which puts us in some very nice company. What do we win? What I win is getting you back once a week in the new year. I wish we'd both win no war.

Thank you, Colonel. God love you. I'll say Merry Christmas, but I hope I get to say to you again before Christmas, meaning you'll be with us Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday morning. Chris will work it out at your convenience. I look forward to it. Thank you, Colonel. All the best.

Coming up later today, 3 o'clock this afternoon, Professor John Mearsheimer, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.