Judging Freedom - COL. Lawrence Wilkerson: Can Trump Tame the State Dept?

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

COL. Lawrence Wilkerson: Can Trump Tame the State Dept?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, January 23rd, 2025. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson joins us now. Colonel Wilkerson, my dear friend, it's always a pleasure. Thank you for joining us. My objective in speaking with you today is to lead up to the question of whether Donald Trump can tame the State Department, you being an expert on the State Department. but a couple of preliminary questions before we get to that one. President Trump threatened President Putin yesterday, saying things like, he's ruining Russia. If he doesn't come to the negotiating table and negotiate sincerely with President Zelensky, I'll impose more sanctions. These comments have been met in the Kremlin with laughter. Does the President of the United States know what he's talking about when it comes to Putin and Russia and Russia and sanctions? I listened to those remarks, Judge, and one of the things that struck me was how badly informed, apparently, he is either by his own intelligence team, and every president't have an appreciation, a visceral appreciation,

of just how badly Ukraine is doing and how successfully Russia is performing at this particular moment. I mean, he said things like Putin is destroying Russia by the war. Yeah. I mean, in fact, Russia is in better state economically, culturally, politically, even militarily than it was two and a half years ago. Certainly militarily. I would say that, as for example, in 1865, the world was looking at us with a million men who were battle-hardened and well-trained and had proven themselves on the battlefield and worrying about where we might send those men next. That's what I would be thinking about Vladimir Putin and the Russian army right now, regardless of what else might be impacting him economically or otherwise. He has a thoroughly rejuvenated industrial base,

and he has a battle-hardened military. Professor Gilbert Doctorow points out the absurdity of President Trump threatening to impose more sanctions. Apparently, everything is sanctioned except an annual expenditure of about $320 million, a lot of money to you and me and people listening to us, but nothing to governments, for enriched uranium needed by American operators of nuclear power plants. And if the president were to impose a tariff or a sanction on that, some American power plants would have to be shut down. Does he understand that before he just threatens off the top of his head to enhance sanctions. I doubt he does. But now that you've mentioned it on public television, he probably will find out. And I would dare say there are other items like that. Not so visible and not so explosive, if you will.

But there are other items. And there are certainly banks in this country that are still handling in a money laund vodka has been sitting in a warehouse at Port Newark since Joe Biden imposed these sanctions two and a half years ago. I wonder if all that vodka is still there. Let's get up to that warehouse with a truck. Oh, well. These sanctions that we implement across the face of the globe are doing one very destructive to the empire thing. They are causing people to develop not only end arounds, get arounds, which they will inevitably do in the black economy, as well as the white economy, the illegal economy, now some $7 to $8 trillion annually, and the actual real legal economy.

And these workarounds are producing profits for people who never would have gained profits from them otherwise, and so incentivizing them to do more and their buddies to come along and help. So what we're doing is we're creating a more dramatic power shift towards China than would otherwise be the case. Wow. I hope that he takes wiser counsel before he makes these off the top of his head threats. But here's some counsel that I really hope he does not take. And the same counsel was given by the same person to Joe Biden. And it's just as over the top as it ever was because this person never seems to learn. I won't even tell you who it is, but you'll know in a heartbeat. Forgive me for adding acid to your stomach after your lunch. Cut number four, Chris. This war will never end with Hamas in charge of Gaza, politically or militarily. Their days are numbered. And the next question for the world is what do we do about the Iran nuclear program? That's where we're going

to move to next. There's diplomacy. There's a one in three chance you'll degrade the Iranian nuclear program through diplomacy. There's a 90% chance you'll degrade it through military action by Israel, supported by the United States. So the next topic I will be engaging in with President Trump is to take this moment in time to decimate the Iran nuclear program because they're so exposed. What does that mean? Help Israel deliver a knockout blow. What does that mean? You're going to urge him to have Israel bomb Iran's facilities that are underground and would require U.S. military support to actually be effective? I'm going to urge the decimation of the Iranian nuclear program. I don't think diplomacy works. This is a religious Nazi regime. They want to destroy the Jewish state. They want to purify

Islam and drive us out of the Mideast. It would be like negotiating with Hitler. I am hoping there will be an effort by Israel to decimate the Iran nuclear program supported by the United States. And if we don't do that, it will be a historical mistake. Lindsey Graham's brain, Judge, is as small as Anne Boleyn's breast. That, of course, is the decapitated former wife of Henry VIII who notoriously complained about what you have just mentioned. Interesting comment by, I think it was Thomas Cromwell, speaking to Anne's sister. When Anne's sister told Cromwell that on a daily

basis almost, Henry pulled down her frock and kissed her breast, and Cromwell looked silent for a moment and then said something like, fancy that, I fancy that he can find them. Oh boy. But back to Senator Graham. Does he have President Trump's ear? Does Donald Trump and Marco Rubio take Lindsey Graham seriously? I don't think Graham has talked to Trump. I don't think he wants, Trump will want him to talk to him. I think Trump thinks he's probably an idiot, and I agree with him. And here's two of the reasons I say that. Zarif gave an interview to Fareed Zakaria at the Davos Forum. You listen to that interview and you know that Donald Trump is already dealing with Iranians through emissaries, of course, and good offices.

Not personally, but he will eventually. You also know that Iran is ripe for a deal. Nothing mesmerizes Donald Trump more than deals, the bigger the better, and deals he can get credit for. This will not be the JCPOA. This will be the DJTD, the Donald Trump deal, and it will be better. Zarif said in the interview that they were willing to go further than they went with the JCPOA. But he also said, got to throw all this stuff out. He also said we are much closer, much closer than we were under the JCPOA to making a nuclear weapon. Although he quickly added, we don't want to do that. and Graham is an idiot, as I've discussed with you a number of times before, is we cannot destroy

with military force their nuclear program unless we invade, root out every limb and branch of it, and probably stay around to make sure they don't reinitiate. You know, the questioner Margaret Brennan on Face the Nation interjected a very astute comment, and I don't know that Senator Graham caught it or in the midst of his own rhetoric or even replied to it. She said, do you mean with the assistance of the United States? Because only with the assistance of the United States could you get rid of it root and branch? The same as what you said. The Israelis can't get rid of it root and branch. The Israelis attack it would require American assistance to do that. Donald Trump really want to start a war with Iran after all this bit about him being the

world's peacemaker this week? No, I think that is one thing donald trump does not want to do categorically start a war with iran and it won't matter what israel wants it's what donald trump wants in this instance and he does not want a war do you think that the ceasefire is this beach now and transitioning to hamas and israel uh is a genuine ceasefire or an inauguration week pause? The latter, but it's more complex than that. I think Bibi is in so much trouble. His coalition is in so much trouble. He's now trying to get Ben Gavir beside the scenes.

He's working on Ben Gavir to get him to come back and promising him all manner of things, I'm sure, that you're going to see, it's going to be really, really lucky if we get into the second phase. This first phase is not really a ceasefire. It's just like what was happening in Gaza. He's upped the ante on the West Bank, actually. He's going more aggressively there to eliminate people and get settlers new property. And in Gaza, he's got that planned and that means the IDF can't leave. He's already replaced or replacing the leadership

to get people in there who I assume more responsive to his wishes and the IDF is gonna linger. So if the IDF is gonna linger, that's a violation of the ceasefire agreement. It'll all depend on how badly Hamas sees that and decides to do what it wants to do. And they are not defeated. They are not defeated. If you look at the ranks of Hamas right now, they are fresh in many respects. They're well-trained. They're ready to go again if they have to. They don't want to because they've seen the destruction they brought on the Palestinian people.

I saw this stat yesterday from Doctors Against Genocide. Hundreds of children, if not thousands, have no family left. Mom, dad, brothers, sisters are all dead. Other families have been almost completely destroyed. You only have one or two family members left from a family that had 29 or 30 members before the war started. This is a true tragedy in Gaza. And when we get in there, there are going to be some people of this country who understand finally why CNN and MSNBC and other mainstream media outlets have been lying to them because the disaster will be manifest to their face. Why do you think Trump ran that clip of Jeff Sachs being so harshly critical of Netanyahu

and then made sure that neither Netanyahu nor his wife were at his swearing his inauguration? I don't think Trump likes Phoebe at all. I think Trump viscerally dislikes Phoebe. He can't, you know, he's got that hundred million in his wallet from Miriam, so he can't say it too outrightly. I don't think he likes him at all. That doesn't say he's going to be a better person with regard to the Palestinians and their prospects in the future, but it does say that I think

Bibi's days are numbered. Very interesting. Mrs. Adelson, whom Max Blumenthal refers to as a Mossad agent and asset, was seated right behind Hillary Clinton on the dais. Best best view in the House. And we know that the president, then president elect himself, made the seating arrangement.

There she is, the lady with the clasped hands, Mossad asset and agent right behind a smirking Hillary Clinton and a smiling Bill. I don't know what Bill or Hillary's got to smile about. Historians are going to treat them dramatically badly. And it'll start probably pretty soon. Usually they let a president die before they really jump in. But this president has got so many sins and this president's first lady has got so many sins and crimes at their fingertips. Historians will have a heyday recording it over the next 20 years. Colonel, how deep is the neocon culture in the State Department today? I don't think in the vested foreign service or even the

civil service there's much of that at all. And I think what Marco Rubio, you know, I'm a mixed mind about Marco Rubio, what he said and what he's done so far. Many of the actions he's taken are smart actions. I would have taken them myself had I been appointed to that position. Many of the actions he's taken are smart actions. I would have taken them myself had I been appointed to that position. Many of the things he said, I completely agree with if he means them the way the narrative depicts them. But there's a tone intent to it. And overall, there's this sort of Christian nationalism aspect, which really disturbs me. Colonel, I'm an old-fashioned pre-Vatican II Latin mass attending Roman Catholic, but I am terrified by the Christian nationalism.

These people want to take their version of Protestant Christianity and enforce it upon people in the United States, the First Amendment notwithstanding. And their version has no resemblance whatsoever to what Dietrich Bonhoeffer, for example, the German who fought Hitler to the end and died for it, said was Christ's real message. And he said there's one place where he gave that message vividly, the Sermon on the Mount. That's not these people's view of Christ. No, no. All right, now back to the neocon culture. I mean, the reason I ask you this is, however articulate or determined Secretary Rubio might be, is the culture in the State Department so deep, so deeply neocon, that he won't be able to change it?

As I said before, I think it's wrong to characterize the Foreign Service or the Civil Service as deeply neoconservative. I would say that if you wanted to paint them with the brush you might paint Dean Acheson, or that you might paint George Kennan, or you might paint others of that ilk, I'd be agreeing with it. Okay. The mentality that fomented the coup in Ukraine in 2014 and continued- Reagan. Correct. Whatever you want to call that, does that mentality pervade in the State Department? There is a certain degree of America first, America second, America third bred into the

Foreign Service, not so much the Civil Service. But it's not neoconservatism. It's a very different kind of conservatism, if you will. It's Foreign Service conservatism. It's a very different kind of conservatism, if you will. It's foreign service conservatism. It's, I'm here to do America's job in this embassy or this consulate, and whatever I'm told to do in terms of selling America or doing that job, I will do unless it's a moral or unethical, and then I will object, and I'll do it up the dissent channel. That's a better description of it. Wow. Blinken brought it. Blinken brought it.

Judge, there's two ways to run the State Department. George Shultz and Colin Powell are the only secretaries of state since World War II that did it the first way and the least done way. That is to take the Foreign Service in hand and use it, and use it adroitly, carefully, and personally. The other way is the way Hillary did it, Madeleine did it, almost every other Secretary of State in the post-World War II area did it. That is to bring your political team on the sixth floor,

bring it around you, and let them do American foreign policy and to hell with the Foreign Service and the Civil Service. Bring it around you and let them do American foreign policy and to hell with the Foreign Service and the Civil Service. Wow. Wow. Colonel, do we know if the United States is still supplying Ukraine? I mean, Zelensky's been all over Davos and he hasn't complained that the gravy train has stopped. As far as I know, there is still equipment going and still money going and there's EU equipment and money going to NATO and, and EU. The EU is covering itself with a disaster right now.

The, the, the performance the EU has put on in Romania in trying to get Colin Georgescu unseated from the process of possibly being elected the new leader of Romania and maybe taking Romania out of NATO is disgusting. The EU is acting as if it were a little CIA. If the United States stops funding Zelensky, what will happen? Does the EU move in, or does he collapse? I don't think they have the wherewithal. They will try, probably. They will try. Even Germany might try. I was on a webinar yesterday with a woman who knows Germany pretty

well, and she's telling me about, and I'm going to go to a webinar this afternoon at UNC, it's going to be at UNC on the German election. She's telling me about, and I'm going to go to a webinar this afternoon at UNC. It's going to be at UNC on the German election. She's telling me about how the coalition might be built. It was not something I was thinking about, the direction she pointed out. But if the coalition is built the way she's talking about it, with AFD and the Greens and the Christian Democrats having the real power, then we could see a Germany that would think that it needs to take over. And that would be, in my mind, a terrible thing to happen to Germany, to NATO, and to Europe. Colonel Wilkerson, always a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you very much

for joining us. Good luck with your webinar. We look forward to seeing you next week, my friend. Take care. Okay, bye-bye. Stay warm. And you as well, Colonel. Coming up at three o'clock, Professor Mearsheimer. At four o'clock, Professor Sachs. At 4.30, Colonel McGregor. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. charging freedom. I'm