Judging Freedom - COL. Lawrence Wilkerson : Dick Cheney War Criminal.

Episode Date: November 6, 2025

COL. Lawrence Wilkerson : Dick Cheney War Criminal.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Today is Thursday, November 6, 2025. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson joins us now. Colonel Larry, a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you for joining us. Thanks for accommodating my schedule. Was Dick Cheney a war criminal? Yes. No question about it.

So was George W. Bush. Matter of fact, as I said to one interviewer this morning, so was I. But I'm so low down the chain. We don't ever do accountability in the empire. They'd probably never get to me. Well, they'd have to come through me to get to you because of my feeling about you. But why is it that you say, I once got in a heated, argument there was just the two of us and he was my boss with roger ails over whether george w bush

and dick cheney were war criminals of course i made the argument that they were at this time they were in office he wouldn't concede in an inch and eventually conceded just a little bit but why do you say that former president george w bush and now late former vice president dick cheney were war criminals. There are a number of reasons. The first and foremost one in my mind is a war of aggression, which Kofi Annan, then the U.N. Secretary General, said about the invasion of Iraq in 2003. It was a war crime. And I agreed with him. We did not have a resolution. We got the first resolution 1441 on November the 8th of the year before. Powell was ecstatic about it. We sent Hans Blix back and we thought everything would be copacetic. Dick Cheney went.

and gave his speech, which no one saw before he gave it. No one, not the president, not Powell, not to anyone, saw the speech before he gave it. He declared the inspectors going back into Iraq as a dumb act, a stupid act. They would not prove a thing. Everything fell apart. Dominique de Villepin got Powell at the UN and told him that he, the French, and the Russians, with veto. So we had to withdraw the second resolution. And therefore, we went to war without a resolution from the United Nations authorizing the war.

Not that that would have made it any better, really, but it would at least make it in vogue with international law at the time legal. It was illegal. Did George W. Bush and Dick Cheney know that there was no valid, legitimate, legal, military, or moral basis for the war, that it was all made up? That's a question I can't answer because I'd have to get into Dick's head, and though I at times thought I was there. occasionally. I can't say that categorically. And Bush was so inexperienced. He was like a

country bumpkin in the White House. I know people think that's derogatory to the president. So what? He was a country bumpkin come to Washington. And he was confronted with one of the most experienced bureaucratic intermowers in the history of the post-war War II era in America. Dick Cheney. The guy had been everything from a 34-year-old White House chief of staff conspiring with Secretary of Defense, or with actually Donald Rumsfeld to get rid of the Secretary of Defense, James Schlesinger, read the Wikipedia article about that. It doesn't tell the truth. They orchestrated James Schlesinger's departure from the Pentagon, so Donald could become Secretary of Defense. So he knew everything. He knew where all the skeletons were. He knew how to manipulate the bureaucracy.

He was Richard Haas called him a bureaucratic entrepreneur par excellence, and he was that are ex-alones. And then he became fabulously rich at Halliburton. 71 million bucks. Wow. And what caused Halliburton's numbers to do so well? They began selling to the Defense Department that he once ran. Kellogg, Brown, and Root, their subsidiary at the time,

and Halliburton made $44 billion off the two theaters of war, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Wow. And he put his stuff in a blind trust and had the gumption. The gumption to come out and say, I won't benefit from that because it's in a blind trust. Well, you idiot, when you get out, and the blind trust turns over its holdings of you. You have benefited from that rise. It was about $15 million when it started, $71 million when it finished. Wow.

Was he also responsible for instrumental in propagating torpor? And I think he coined the phrase enhanced interrogation. Yes. And he was one of the strident people in the National Security Council meeting. When Powell brought forth his lawyer, Will Taft, who himself had been a deputy secretary of defense, famous political name there, William Howard Taft, the fourth. But obviously related to the other Tafts to that, the president, the chief justice, and the senator from Ohio. Yes, all the way through there. And Secretary of Defense, Deputy Secretary of Defense himself.

and now Powell's lawyer. And when we went over on 28th, January, I think it was because it was my birthday, to talk about abandoning the Geneva Conventions and things like illegal combatants and terminology that had never been heard before. And we put our case forward, and Cheney was one of the most strident people about that's not persuasive. We need a whole new regime, and we're going to develop that regime. And then they turned to the AG, who was already alerted, and John Yoo in particular, but other in that group like Cheney's own right-hand man and they developed this idea that okay we're

going to have a physician God bless that physician Hippocratic Oath dude beside the torture bed as it were and if it gets to death it'll be torture but only if it gets to death so what do you do what do you do if you're the physician stop you're torturing now oh god wow Was the president there for these conversations? Part of them. Part of them. Yes. Condi was there most of the time, the National Security Bother, Dr. Rice.

She was a war criminal also. You're talking of Condoleezza Rice. Right, right. Is she a war criminal? Yes. As I said, if you want to come down to all the political appointees, you have to reach right down and get me too. And I'm doubly guilty because I put the damn presentation together for the U.N.

in February 2003. Did Cheney lead Bush around on these issues? Did he dominate him, recognizing that Bush was a country bumpkin and he was an experienced bureaucrat? More so, more so because he recognized Bush was a cowboy. And I mean cowboy in the sense that we use that term derisively to describe someone speeding on the highway or whatever. He was a cowboy.

Powell put it this way in a metaphor to me. he came back from a national security meeting. He said, I got a problem. LW. I got a problem. I said, what's your problem? He said, Cheney knows how to get Bush to pull out his six-shooter and start shooting, and I don't know how to get him to put it back in the holster.

Is the United States enforcing the Kushner-Witkopf Trump's so-called ceasefire agreement in Gaza? Trying to, but they're failing. majorly, they even just had, you may have seen it, the foreign minister from Bahrain, in the

ISS-sponsored conference there in Manama, he came out and blatantly said, the cause of instability in this region is Israel. Now, you've got to open the parentheses after that and say

sponsored by the United States, closed parentheses. This is a fracturing of everything we're trying to do with regard to the Arab states. whether it'll mean anything or not is another matter altogether, but it does mean that they are now saying, screw your

deal. You will never come back to the Abraham Accords. You will never come back to comedy with us because we know you have, through this plan, no prayer of establishing any kind of meaningful Palestinian state. So we're done with you.

Who is this that you are mouthing that is saying we're done with you. Well, this is the foreign minister of Bahrain. And there's Bahrain part of the Abraham Accords? I think they are. Yeah, and they're part of the GCC, more importantly. And in essence, he's saying what everyone has been speculating about. We have affected a somewhat rapprochable with Iran, and we are again the one country in the region that we feel is our true enemy, and that country is Israel. Wow. Are Israel in the United States getting ready to attack Iran? I think so, but it's a new

strategy now. Here's this strategy. Netanyahu has told Donald Trump and probably other members of administration, Marco Rubio, principally, that he is going to take care of Lebanon. He's preparing for that right now. He's going to take care of Hezboa, but he's really talking about taking care of Lebanon and ending it as ever to be a competitor for Israel in the eastern Mediterranean. And you, Donald, will take care of Iran because I can't do everything. Hold off Hamas and Khasa, occupy West Bank to the point of annexation, and go into Syria and do a little bit, and also take out Hezbollah and occupy Lebanon. I can't do all that, so you have to do Iran.

So we've got a deal going here, and it's going to be like the deal we did with Iran, with the bombing of the nuclear sites. And it's going to be just as, shall we say, surprising for Iran, because it's going to be in the middle of what is going to look like a beleaguered Israel and a bastardize whatever it is right now, ceasefire. It isn't a ceasefire, that's for sure.

They're killing people at a rate that matches the worst days of the actual war in Gaza. So the ceasefire, I'm doing your quotes. around it was a scam to trick Hamas into surrendering its only leverage, which was the living hostages. To a degree, but they haven't fallen for that completely. They haven't fallen for it completely because they- What do you mean, Colonel?

They still have leverage, and the leverage is the fact that they're fierce fighters and that they're still armed to the teeth with the kind of weaponry that they need, both improvised and actual small arms, to take on the IDF and make their suicide rate. go higher than it is it's already off the charts 274 i think now think about that 274 suicides and their post-traumatic stress is off the off the charts also and the ranks are thinning because people aren't showing up for their duty particularly for their reservists and they're not they're not limited you're better at math than i am but 274 suicides in an military their size can you even imagine what that would be extrapolated out to our million-man army?

Well, it'd probably become something close to ours because ours is astronomical, too. And that's another matter altogether, but we have the high suicide rate we've ever had in the United States military. Wow. And it has a lot to do with how we've treated them. You know, we have 40,000-plus homeless veterans. They're on the street. They're sleeping with newspapers. if the United States attacks Iran surely Iran will attack Israel

I don't think that's the way to put it if the United States attacks Iran the United States will be in jeopardy of losing the empire much faster than it already was let's put it that one I know what you're being by the empire but how would the United States lose it as a consequence, or faster as a consequence of attacking Iran? Because you can't do it, as we've proven time and time again, without ground forces. You just can't.

And so you either look like a feckless fool, bombing the heck out of 90 million people who are getting tighter and tighter amongst themselves every day that you're bombing and are really angry with you and angry with everything you're doing, you can't. can't stop them from doing what they're doing or doing worse than what they're doing by bombing. So you're going to have to invade, and you're going to have to go after them tooth and nail. And when we do that, we're finished. Colonel, is the United States of America about to invade? Now, we can fill in the blank, but I'm going to fill it in with a word that most Americans don't even know where this is.

Nigeria? What the hell is our security interest in Nigeria? I heard those are bars. He's done it now. He's gone off the deep end. There was a cartoon the other day. He didn't even have a caption on it. It showed a pipeline, Royal Dutch Shell pipeline in Nigeria.

The pipeline was broken like they usually do. The natives go in there and they cut a hole in it and they steal oil out of it. And instead of oil being in it, there was gold coins, just piles of gold coins, and there was dollars in the bucket. That's their appreciation of, what Dollar Trump means about invading Nigeria. I'm going to play a clip of the president threatening to invade Nigeria. He uses very, shall we say, cowboy-like language, including the phrase I've never heard

even out of George W's mouth, guns ablaze him, literally. I'd like you to tell me what you think of it and what the military people who may have to enforce this nonsense are likely to think of it. This is crazy. Chris, cut number one. The Nigerian government continues to allow the killing of Christians. The USA will immediately stop all aid and assistance to Nigeria. We're going to do things to Nigeria that Nigeria is not going to be happy about

and may very well go into that now disgrace country, guns are blazing to completely wipe out the Islamic terrorists who are committing these horrible, horrible atrocities. I'm hereby instructing our Department of War to prepare for possible action. If we attack, it will be fast, vicious, and sweet, just like the terrorist thugs attack our cherished Christians. These are cherished people. These are great people. Leave them alone. Warning, the Nigerian government better move fast before it's too late. If they don't, this is going to be held to pay. That's probably the most impolitic said remarks I've ever heard an American president say, and believe me, I've heard some impolitic remarks. Now, let's just face the fact, one, that in Damascus, the big guy there is killing Christians, too.

And that was so blatantly political and political address to the Christian nationalists who were very much a part of the MAGA case. But one wonders why he's saying that other than that purpose. But if he's saying it for the purpose of invading a country of almost 300 million people, each one of whom will become a warrior, a gorilla, like the likes of which we've probably never seen before, against us, should we invade that country? He's insane. He's totally insane.

What is the population of Nigeria? Close to 300 million. I was looking at it the other day. They're getting close to us. It's about 285, 287, something like that. Wow. And it'd be 300 already if so many of them weren't in this country. But if murdering or invading a country can be based on the fact that Christians are being killed in the country, why is he hosting Al Jolani in the Oval Office on Monday, Colonel?

That's what I just said. He's killing Christians too, perhaps not to the rate that others are, but he is. That's his one weak point right now, in my view, that he has not covered over very well. He started it in the campaign. and he's still doing it as I understand it. I don't have any prima facie evidence in front of my face, but I have a lot of people in Damascus, Aleppo, and other places that are telling me that he is. And there are people who welcomed what he did initially with open arms because they were so sick of Bashar al-Assad and his killing squads and the prisons in particular.

They welcomed him with open arms, and now they are person by person, individual by individual, telling me different stories about what he's doing. Well, is the United States preparing to invade Venezuela? Jeez, Judge. Have you got another one you're going to throw out? That's a long list. I know.

I have to think that this is all a show of force to try and bring about an opposition, which is not very powerful. Juan Guido didn't do it. Now Machado is not going to do it. The opposition simply is not powerful enough. And too many people in Venezuela are sick and tired of Los Estados Unitos, the United States, sick and tired of us threatening their governments, whether they like them or not. So they're not going to coalesce in an opposition and join a CIA or other effort to overthrow Maduro.

They're going to oppose it. So this is a show of force that's going to embarrass the president, I think. I hope it doesn't embarrass him so much so that he actually goes ahead and execute something, because I think, again, we'd have another disaster on our hands. Well, I forgot to play this for you when we were talking about Israel, but the Israelis, of course, are utilizing American assets, American acolytes to spread their word and to attack other Americans who disagree with the Netanyahu regime.

Here's one of them. Cut number five. Tucker Carlson has turned himself into a conspiracist and a crank and a pathological liar. Tucker excuses Vladimir Putin's murderous and barbarous reign. He has even become one of his most ardent defenders. Tucker Carlson has attacked President Trump as a cover-up artist for sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein on behalf of Israel and Mossad, because, of course, Tucker's. a coward. Tucker Carlson has stated that President Trump has undermined America first and Maga by attacking Iran, giving into neo-con ghouls like Mark Levin. Tucker Carlson

acts as an ideological launderer for other people's evils. He's a master of gaslighting. Tucker Carlson will have on a Hitler-friendly pseudo-historian to minimize the Holocaust and blame Winston Churchill for World War II, and he will call him America's best and most honest historian. I thought Churchill was the chief villain of the Second World War. Tucker Carlson will have on over and over, a pro-Chinese propagandist who used global warming to promote global socialism, all in order to criticize Israel and hug China. Israel has run American foreign policy in the Middle East for 30 years. That's how it works. This is actually the truth. If we drop our angst on big bad Russia, big bad China, which is also not going to invade the United

States, they're not a threat to the United States, honestly. And Iran is not a threat. Tucker Carlson, of course, brings on pro-Chamas voices. Episode after episode after episode, the instances are almost limitless. America needs a robust conservative organization based on principle and ideas, not personal loyalty to bad actors like Tucker Carlson. Min Shapiro has been self-destructing now for about six weeks. Yeah, so has Mark Levin.

If you have the stomach, we'll play that for you. But the point is, these two fellas or, are so furthering the MAGA divide, and they're losing the battle. The young people have had enough of the slaughter in Gaza. There's no question about it. Here's Charlie Kirk shortly before he died on the political effects of what the government is doing, the domestic political effects. 13. The rise of Mamdani should be a, it's a coming attraction of what is coming next. Who's Mamdani? Zoran Mamdani, the, the Muslim communist that is running for mayor in New York City. Not everyone, but most people are missing the point of really what this is. This is yet another distress signal by young people to say, hey, if you're not going to fix our life economically, we're going to get very radical politically. Now, let's take a step back. President Trump won the youth vote in many states.

across the country in many battleground states. One of the reasons he was able to win younger voters and younger men, especially in big numbers, is that they were trying to get their leaders' attention. They said, hey, this guy, Donald Trump, he is pledging to go fix our economic anxiety. He is loud. He is going to get your attention. Donald Trump was a distress signal by a lot of young people, especially young men, that were stuck in a credit-centric renter economy.

And again, this is what is the rise of Mom Dani. It's just another iteration of this only from the left. Pretty smart words, actually. Yes, very smart words. I had never, not by design, I had just never heard that level of political analysis from him. But young people are demanding a change, even if it's a change to the hard left like happened in New York here. 85% of people under the age of 30, and New York City voted for this fellow.

And there are libertarians in that group just because they're sick and tired of the establishment. Exactly. He was right on, spot on with regard to that. And the promise of Trump was significant to that regard. It even attracted yours truly in certain respects, especially that I didn't like the Iraq War and the economy sucks respect.

but he hasn't done anything and that's particularly exemplified by the situation in kaza yeah by the way nigeria has about 240 million i was a little bit off but but colonel it's it's an eye-opener to me i had no idea it was that large do they have a military would there be resistance they do show up with guns ablaze i can use a phrase like that and expect your military guys to respect you. Yeah. When we met with Sani Abacha, who was the dictator at the time, and then the leader of the Nigerian military, I got to meet quite a few of their military. They weren't very savory characters, but I wouldn't want to meet them in a dark alley. Wow. Was nothing Yahoo be something behind the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin? Yes, absolutely. All you have to

do is look at the video made by a Jewish documentary team where they used about half the video, associated with the times. In other words, the documentary is roughly 30 to 40 percent actual video of the actual times. And what they concentrate on are the political rallies that Netanyahu held and led down the streets, if you will. And what you see is an environment being created that you know damn well is going to lead to some drastic, horrible action. and then they show you the actual scene and the film of the assassination. It's not hard to connect the two. By the way, that documentary has been banned in Israel,

and they managed to get it out of HBO's hands and not shown in America. Wait a minute, banned in Israel, according to J.D. Vance, Israel is a democracy. Oh, yes, right. Funny democracy. Yes, when I say that to Jeff Sachs or John Mears, Shimer, of course, they recoil and they realize I'm being sarcastic. Colonel, it's a pleasure. We've been all over the place, but I appreciate you letting me take you all over the place and your wealth of knowledge.

And as always, a backbone of steel, such personal courage. Thank you, Colonel. Thank you for having me. You'll have a great week next week. We'll see you the week after. Take care. I'll let you know how those trout do. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Fry one up for me. They're delicious. Thank you. Take care. All the best. Coming up at 3 o'clock, Professor John Mearsheimer, and at 4 o'clock, and I know he's anxious to come on because he's been texting Chris and me all the afternoon. Who else? Max Blumenthal.

Justice LaPolitan for judging freedom. Thank you.