Judging Freedom - COL. Lawrence Wilkerson : Did Pakistan Offer Iran Nukes?

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

COL. Lawrence Wilkerson : Did Pakistan Offer Iran Nukes?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Undeclared wars are commonplace. Pragically, our government engages in preemptive war, otherwise known as aggression, with no complaints from the American people. Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the illegitimate use of force by government. To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating force must be understood and rejected. What if sometimes to love your country you had to alter or abolish the government? the government? What if Jefferson was right? What if that government is best, which governs least?

What if it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong? What if it is better to perish fighting for freedom than to live as a slave? What if freedom's greatest hour of danger is now? Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for judging freedom. Today is Thursday, June 4th, 2006, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson joins us now. Colonel Larry, pleasure, my dear friend, no matter what we're talking about. Did Donald Trump find his off-ramp yet? No, he certainly didn't.

And he is caught down, and it's really kind of tragic to look at where he is. Bibi is stuck with people who oppose him and probably are going to defeat him and send him to prison because he's not being hard enough in Lebanon and Donald Trump is telling him he's got to lay off Lebanon and other things like that. So he is caught between a rock and a hard place. And Donald is too because where BB goes, he goes to a certain extent.

And he's not winning this war with Iran and it's going to be increasingly difficult to convince anyone, even his own people, like in the military, that he is. Wow. Does he even have a military solution, colonel? Not really. Not really. And I can tell you right now, from what we've been hearing from Tampa and from Central Command headquarters, it's a disaster. It's an absolute disaster. Nobody, including Bradley Cooper and Corrilla Gorilla before him, really knows what the hell they're doing. They're pretending they do because they don't want to be embarrassed in front of their troops. But the troops understand what kind of situation they're in. And morale is on the floor. But what would he do militarily? Start bombing Tehran again, and then the Iranians destroy the desalination plants in the Gulf states?

Well, imagine this, Judge. This is the way you're supposed to frame a mission in the military. I taught this. You frame it this way. This is what I want you to accomplish, and this is why. In other words, the task and the purpose. Imagine you tell the military,

drop some more bombs, what's the purpose? Well, we want to get them to relent. They're not going to relent, and bombs are just going to make them even more unrelenting. What do you want me to tell you to do to stop the war? Do the Iranians sort of have Trump and Netanyahu in a bind? They do.

Iranians will not agree to stop the war until Trump restrains Netanyahu. And can Trump restrain Netanyahu? He can try. He can say the F word all he wants to to him. But here's another problem, Judge. The Iranians have been misquoted enormously with regard to this aspect of what we're talking about. It also includes the Palestinians. You must stop killing the Palestinians. And you must, as Mohammed bin Salman has made now a requisite for his cooperation now from this moment on,

you must present a viable option. Viable is the key word here for a Palestinian state. Stop killing them. Stop the genocide. And this is the Houthis too. This is their demand. Stop the genocide and put forward a proposal for a viable Palestinian state. That's not about to happen.

And Iran knows that. So there's another element in there that is unachievable, and Iran knows that. You mentioned BB going to jail. Is he in danger of losing his premiership soon? Very much so. I think for the first time in the times I've watched him now for 20 plus years, I guess, he is in trouble, in political trouble. And as I said, it's so ironic because he's in trouble,

because he's not killing enough and he's not killing swiftly enough. That's why he's in trouble. And his opposition is using that to garner votes with the 82% remember 82% in the polls of the Jewish Israelis support killing everybody that's around them including Syrians, peasants, Lebanese,

you name it, and Iranians, of course. He's not killing them fast enough and they see him as having mucked up this business with Iran because they don't think he's done enough to get Trump to continue the war. So they're going to beat him for absolutely, in my view, at least, the wrong reasons. The wrong reason. Yeah. Do you believe that the so-called dust-up between them, or do you think it was performative? A little of both, but I do think there was probably some harsh language there,

because I think that's the only thing Bibi listens to. It sometimes turns him into even worse opponent, but it's the only thing he listens to. didn't stop them. Trump said the IDF turned around. That's a joke. Yeah. Well, the IDF has got a lot of conjecture going on within its ranks right now, particularly the local, the language between the IAF and the IDF and between the Israeli Air Force. And the people on the ground who realized that the only way they're going to deal with what HESBL is doing to them is with speed and movement. They're still going to take casualties, but speed and movement will minimize those casualties, whereas this slow creeping pace and this constant stopping gives us well a chance to do maximum damage to

them to include destroying these tanks. The number of tanks is or has lost is incredible, in my view. Here's what Netanyo said when asked if Trump cursed out of him. Chris, cut number two. President confirmed that he said, you're effing crazy. How did you react to that? really happened in that call. Sometimes we have, as in the best of families, you have these tactical disagreements, we always find a way to work them out. And we do so as great friends. We can

disagree in the morning and by the afternoon we have a common action. By the afternoon, we're back at genocide. By the afternoon, we're back at killing men, women, and children in Beirut. Right. But I thought the question was a setup and the answer was rehearsed. I think so. I think so. That's Netanyahu doesn't do anything really much that isn't rehearsed, which makes me really worry about his two comments, about they're going to get something they wouldn't believe, and then this latest one about the final solution, even adopting Hitler's terminology. Wow. Did they actually use the phrase the final solution? I'm totally did. He didn't have. Historical meaning of that, particularly for the Jewish people? I'm told also the previous one he made

in Hebrew and I got a translation. This one I'm told he said in English, meaning that it was not just for the Israelis. Are Iran and US negotiations still going on? There are no negotiations, Judge. There have been none at all, all along. Negotiations require two parties looking at each other across a table or something,

and they require the diplomats from each party to engage. We have not engaged one time face to face with Iranian diplomat, nor are they with us. We've done everything through third parties, and generally speaking, those third parties, particularly in Islamabad, had their own agenda. So you can't trust anything that's come out of this. Believe me, I had to do this with the six-party talks with China officiating, and us talking to the North Koreans through the Chinese, sometimes through the Russians.

It is not diplomacy. It's nonsense. And it's the kind of nonsense that people like Dick Cheney in this case do in order to stop diplomacy and not to have it be effective. How effective can it be for two real estate agents to be sending messages to the chief? Can't make this up, but sounds like a joke. Two real estate agents send handwritten messages to the chief of the army of Pakistan. They're translated into Urdu and then into Farsi and sent to the president of Iran. Does this actually happen? Probably. That's how nonsensical it is. And you understand why Whitkoff and

Kushner would be involved in it because my understanding is it's indirect but their main interest in all of this is to be in locations where they can strike deals and make contracts. They're after money as much as they are after any solution diplomatically or otherwise. And nothing nothing about what I just said is more true than I'm told now in Albania, which is which I would put down right now at the the North Korean working group that was the most formidable working group I've ever been on in government, about 75 of us from all over the interagency group. We had the FBI, we had the Secret Service, we had treasury, we had state, we had defense,

we had everybody, and we cooperated, and we worked together like nothing I've ever seen before. Even there, we concluded at the end of that, that North Korea was the only criminal state in the world, a criminal state, they made their hard currency off crime, period, including the top guy. Now, I have to say Albania tops them. What is Albania do? Everything. Everything you could imagine. Oregon traffic, trafficking in people, trafficking in the stolen automobiles, trafficking in

and elicited activities like drugs. I mean, we did this, Judge, to a certain extent, with the business of bombing the Serbs for 78 straight days, then recognizing Kosovo, which is not a whole lot better than Albania, and then putting the whole thing in place in defiance of the whole son and then Putin. And Putin's got a point about why he doesn't recognize Kosovo because he knows who composes Kosovo, and it ain't much better than who composes Albania. Got it. All right, let me get back to Iran. Did Pakistan offer Iran a nuclear weapon?

I think that's been done on both sides of the Persian Gulf. I think Pakistan has an agreement with MBS, in duress, and MBS has deposited money, thank you very much, in Islamabad to that effect. And I think of late, they have developed a relationship with Iran, which gives probably the ISI in the military or maybe just the military, the power to engage in negotiations with Iran over the possibility, of loaning them a couple of missiles with nuclear warheads.

Now, our friends and colleagues, you probably know this, Larry Johnson and Pepe Escobar, have been reporting this week, and Larry will have an update on this tomorrow on the Intelligence Community Roundtable, that the Iranians developed a nuclear weapon during the war. That's what Ted Postal has been saying. that there's a 60 to 80% chance off. He told me that about a month and a half ago

when I was in Williamsburg. And I said, what do you base that on? And he told me and I said, I agree with you. There's a high possibility that when the Ayatollah was killed and killed it in the way he was killed, that they had a meeting and the meeting said, if we need to, we will. And they have a secret facility known not to MI6,

not to Massad, not to CIA, deep underground. And they have all the ingredients that they know how to marry up, but haven't to this point married up. And what I mean is fiscal material, a warhead to put it in, and a missile to put the warhead on, and all the trajectory knowledge, education you need to do that. And they could explode a bomb at any time and prove it to the world. How difficult is it to deliver a nuclear weapon?

Are we talking about fat boy, like what was dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki? or are we talking about something on the tip of a missile or a drone? We're talking about a missile, and probably we've seen one or two of them used already, a really fast ballistic missile. And Ted's idea, and I think he's right, is that they would erect it and shoot it before anybody knew anything about it. Now, how would they test it? Maybe the same way Israel did.

Israel, we think, conducted, we're pretty sure, too, and possibly three tests using South Africa. So there might be some other way for them to test it in a very dramatic way. Let's say they tested it with Pakistan. And that will be enough to say to Netanyahu, ha ha, I am now in the same boat as Kim Jong-un. I'm not in the boat with Muammar Gaddafi. I'm in the boat with Kim Jong-un. Go ahead and threaten me.

Wow. So Larry and Pepe are reporting that Iran has been discussing over an open line knowing that CIA Mossad and MI6 will capture the discussion. The idea of detonating a nuclear bomb in the Iranian desert in such a way that nobody's harmed, but so that it will send an unmistakable message to Washington and Tel Aviv. That would mean they have, if true, if accurate, they're not stupid. That would mean they have more, at least one more than this one that they're going to detonate for show. That's the reason Kongsoc Jew leaned into Jim Kelly and told him, we don't just have one. We have six to 12.

And that desert is a huge desert. They could easily do that. And that would be a way of showing it demonstratively and within their own border. so they wouldn't have to worry about a third party being brought into the Bruhaha, if you will. Wow. It wouldn't be, let's put it this way. I think we missed if the record is right. We missed the first South African assisted Israeli test.

We didn't miss the second one and we didn't miss the third one. The same thing happened in Korea. We missed one. but I think this would be demonstrative. Now, another thing they could do, Judge, and I understand yesterday, I understood they hadn't done it, but I haven't seen any confirmation of it.

They could come out and very dramatically say, we're withdrawing from the nonproliferation treaty. We're gone. We're out of it. It's done us no good. We adhered to it religiously, and they did all through the JCPOA period, the period before that.

They were, I think the IAE, a reporting honestly and not being influenced by us or by the British would say they were probably some of the best members of the nonproliferation treaty and the additional protocol that they adhered to it magnificently. So before Trump withdrew the United States from the JCPOA, the Iranians had 3.67 max enriched uranium, I'm subject to inspection and investigation. Is that enough to make a bomb? I'm not an expert on that,

but I would say that that's probably an underestimate, and I would also say that what Ted's theory is, and I think he's right, is they have a lot more, and it's highly enriched. And they don't have to spin it anymore, as it were. Yeah, well, the reason I'm asking this is because at the time Trump withdrew, everybody says, ripped up, the United States from the JCPOA, probably because it was a signature achievement of John Kerry and Barack Obama, and for no other reason.

And Secretary Moniz. Secretary of Moniz was very instrumental. Right. And John Bolton, another story about John today, told him to withdraw us from it. But at that time, Iran's nuclear enrichment was severely limited. and the straight of hormones was totally open. Absolutely. Look at the mess he's created now.

Yes. He's gotten what he wished for. Powell used to say, be careful what you wish for. He might get it. What he was saying was untrue. What he was concluding and telling the American people about the danger of Iran was a lie. I don't know if he knew it was a lie, but it was a lie.

Maybe Steve Miller fed him that lie. Maybe John Bolton fed him that lie. I don't know who did, but either way, it was a lie. whether he knew it or not, and now it's come true. So look at that. When Trump says Iran can never be permitted to have a nuclear weapon, it's too late. He forced them into it. Yes.

Yeah, that's the way history is going to look at this. Well, if Ted Postal, Postal, whom we know is a brilliant guy, maybe the foremost physicist in the world, certainly in the U.S., and if Larry Johnson and And Pepe Escobar's source, I won't, I don't know the name, I know where the person's from, I know the person's rank, if that source is correct, rather than the source wanting to get false information out there, then the war provoked the Iranians to do this. The combination of the death of the Ayatollah and the ability of the new Ayatollah to extinguish the fatwa of his father. Do I have this right? You have it right. You have it categorically right.

And I think it's an irony that history will look back on. You know, the Council on Foreign Relations allegedly released a report. Buddy up there in mine told me that has found that the greatest strategic era of the United States has made in 250 years was the 2003 war with Iraq. I think they're going to have to revisit that. and make it the 2006 war with Iran. Yes. Wow.

How can Trump restrain Netanyahu, given the Zionist control over Trump and the Congress? With great pain and agony, and I don't think Trump is prepared to suffer that. I mean, it would be politically dangerous, of course, at least initially. And you've got to let the mayor, people catch up with you. You know, there's a lot of opposition. Yes, I agree. Tom Massey's defeat

showed that 40 and under in particular, a lot of opposition out there. Otherwise, Natchanahu wouldn't be so eager, eager to get this section 224 of the NDA going. So he doesn't have any oversight of sales of military equipment to Israel. But it's going to take a while before this momentum rolls up like a tidal wave and gives politicians, the leverage they need, the space they need in order to act in accordance with America's interests instead of in accordance with APAC's interests and Israel's interests. It's going to take a while. And in that while, can a lot of things happen, a lot of bad things happen. Do you think Trump is afraid of assassination if he defies APAC and the Zionist, American Zionist

oligarchs? I would be if I'd seen Charlie Kirk get taken down the way you got taken down. We'll leave it at that, Colonel. Who would you, Judge, if I ask you the question, who is the number one state sponsor of assassinations of state leaders in the world? Oh, Israel. It's not even a close call, Colonel. Thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you, Colonel. Always a pleasure no matter what we're talking about. Please let me. I know I owe you more than one dinner. Please let me know if you're going to be in the New York City area. I'm going to take you up on that.

All right, all the best, Colonel Larry. Thank you very much. You do. Great pleasure to be able to interview you. Another great pleasure coming up. If you're watching us live in 37 minutes at 3 o'clock this afternoon on all of this, the cleanup hitter, Colonel Douglas McGregor, a judge, Napolitano for judging freedom.