Judging Freedom - COL. Lawrence Wilkerson: Is Trump Making Pacts With Devils?

Episode Date: May 15, 2025

COL. Lawrence Wilkerson: Is Trump Making Pacts With Devils?See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

you Hi everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, May 15th, 2025. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, dear friend of mine and friend of the show joins us now. Colonel Larry, always a pleasure. Thank you very much for your time here. The suggested title and advertised title of this show is Trump Making Pacts with Devils. You are a career military and then of course you had your career in the State Department. What was your reaction when you saw the President of the United States of America hugging a Brooks Brothers clad former commander of Al Qaeda? Interesting development. I'm waiting to see how it works out. I know that

our troops are still there. He ordered them out, but now apparently he's ordered them back in because they are in the middle of a silica deposit that is astronomical, I'm told, very valuable, a critical mineral. And so we're not leaving now. Clearly this man is transactional to the core, but embracing Al Jelani is all forgiven and forgotten. The guy kills Christians, the guy kills Aloeites, the guy kills babies. I'm not making this up. This is what Ritter and McGregor, your friends and colleagues, our friends and colleagues are telling me. Now, this is Trump and Trump does business and business is all he does. And just look at where he's been with some of the richest men in the world, courting

their money, their business and such. This is the guy who's motivated by that and that alone. So who is whispering into his ear? He stands up in Saudi Arabia, we'll play the clip in a minute, and blasts the neocons, blasts the efforts of which Colin Powell was once a part to introduce democracy into the Middle East, forcibly introduce it. And then at the same time, he has General Kellogg release the most absurd proposal I've ever seen, which is for NATO to micromanage Ukraine.

A non-starter from day one with President Putin, if ever there was one. So does Trump believe whoever's been whispering into his ears last and then then we'll play the clip where he blasts the neocons? So that is of course true I think, but I'm listening to what's happening in Turkey right now and I'm reasonably confident that we might go ahead with this. The real ingredient that might screw it up at the last minute is Zelensky. But right now, I'm hearing that Madinsky's there, Peskov is there, the head of the GRU, Igor Kostyukov is there.

This is a very powerful delegation. My new friend Sergey Lavrov is there. Yes, very, very powerful delegation. And it means Putin's serious. But Colonel, Chris, you can pop that full screen up. But guess who else is there, Colonel? Yeah. Lindsey Graham. What on earth is he doing there? He's there. He wants to drive Vladimir Putin from office. That's Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, the foreign minister of Ukraine, name escaping me, and a smiling, gloating, beaming Senator Graham. Well, I think Rubio's there, if I'm parsing this right, Rubio's there because he is both national security advisor and secretary of state

and neither has given him real access to real diplomacy. So I'm assuming he's there because he and he's not in the city Istanbul where the talks are going to take place. I don't know if he will eventually arrive there should they eventuate, But I think he's trying to keep himself relevant. And he's is he the Secretary of State? Because depends how you how you define I'll use Bill Clinton depends what the word is means. He has the day jury Secretary of State. He's not the de facto Secretary of State. Am I right, Colonel?

I think he's I think he's actually out of the action completely out of the action, and he's doing his best to reinsert himself in it. And bringing Lindsey along, he thinks might help him. Wow. Here's what President Trump said about Lindsey and his neocon buddies. This is blistering. Yes. Cut number 11. Before our eyes, a new generation of leaders is transcending the ancient conflicts of tired divisions of the past and forging a future where the Middle East is defined by commerce, not chaos. This great transformation has not come from Western intervention.

The gleaming marvels of Riyadh and Abu Dhabi were not created by the so-called nation builders, neocons, or liberal nonprofits like those who spent trillions and trillions of dollars failing to develop Kabul, Baghdad, so many other cities. Instead, the birth of a modern Middle East has been brought by the people of the region themselves. In the end, the so-called nation builders wrecked far more nations than they built, and the interventionists were intervening in complex societies that they did not even understand themselves. They told you how to do it, but they had no idea how to do it themselves. Peace, prosperity, and progress ultimately came

not from a radical rejection of your heritage, but rather from embracing your national traditions and embracing that same heritage that you love so dearly. I would argue that Donald J. Trump has just rejected the fundamental theses of the foreign policy of every American president going back to George H.W. Bush.

What do you say, Colonel? No, not George H.W. Bush. His foreign policy was quite different. And the demarcation is post George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush with Bill Clinton. It's a dramatic demarcation is post George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush with Bill Clinton. It's a dramatic demarcation too. And I would love to know who wrote that speech for Trump because I know he didn't write it. He

stumbled over it enough to where I know he didn't write it. Clearly he didn't write it. Those are words and phrases he doesn't use off the top. Who head. Who wrote it? Did J.D. Vance write it? Who in his administration wrote that speech? Because that speech, as you just indicated, is a repudiation of almost everything that's happened since Bill Clinton's first year in office. That would be dramatically positive as far as I'm concerned. Agreed, agreed. So I wonder, you and I have talked about this, Ritter and I, McGregor

and I, Mearsheimer and Saxon, we've all talked about it, how much he changes his mind. Does he believe whoever he's been listening to last? In this case, maybe this is going to stick at least somewhat because there's so much money involved. And that ultimately at base is what Trump is all about for Jared and for everybody else in his family. I mean that that's what this whole trip is about is money. It's so it glistens with gold because it's all about money and this is where about 20% of the money in the world is located. Colonel, General Kellogg just released plans for NATO to have a physical presence in Ukraine.

Can the Kremlin take the United States of America seriously when in the midst of peace negotiations, albeit in Turkey, and I hope he's not there, but who knows? He makes a statement like that. I think Lavrov and Putin and others in Russia know that Kellogg is a laughing stock. He's used by people in the administration to throw out the other side, if you will, but I think he's a laughing stock in the eyes of the Russians and probably in the eyes of most others who are serious about ending this war, including Donald Trump.

So I don't take much from what Kellogg says. Uh, president Trump's, um, public snubbing of the prime minister, uh, netting Yahoo's in the Middle East, he's not going to Israel. He stopped the bombing of the Houthis without telling the Israelis. He negotiated with Hamas contrary to the demands of the Israelis. Mike Huckabee, contrary to his wishes, was forced to go on national television and announced that American aid is slowly, slowly making its way into Gaza. Do you read the tea leaves that Donald Trump is finally sick and tired of Benjamin Netanyahu? Oh, I don't think it's finally.

I think he's just finding new evidence to make it public that he's sick and tired. Do you know Netanyahu? I mean, did you and Colin Powell deal with him? Is he really as irritable as everybody seems to be saying? We did. And he's one of the most arrogant sons of bitches I've ever met in my life. arrogant sons of bitches I've ever met in my life. Oh god.

It's fair to say that Bibi Netanyahu believes that at any time he cooks his finger towards Washington, he can get the president of the United States and the Congress to do anything he damn well pleases. Wow. And that's not that's stopping and Trump is stopping it. Reuters just announced Trump envoys, Witkoff and Kellogg will go to Turkey for the Russia-Ukraine talks. Now why on this earth would General Kellogg be there, Colonel Wilkerson? Is a good cop, bad cop?

I mean, the Russians are too smart to be duped by that. Absolutely. I should suspect that Kellogg will sit over in the corner with Kostikov and Kostikov will read him the riot act and tell him to go away. Wow. The snubbing of Netanyahu though, is it the beginning of something else? I mean, is there any real way to bring about a cessation of the slaughter in Gaza without removing Benjamin Netanyahu from office?

I certainly hope it is, and yes, I hope that is true too. This business yesterday of the IDF, the vaunted IDF, saying that there was a tunnel under the hospital where they proceeded to kill dozens of people, and this is the only hospital that treats cancer patients in Gaza, tunnel was under a school, a hundred or 200 meters away from the hospital and they didn't even hit the school and the videos that they released demonstrated this tells you how broken this whole process is, including the IDF and apparently their air force who can't find a target to hit. The, the videos are horrendous. I watched two of them that Chris got me. And of course we can't air them, but it is heartbreaking, saddening and sickening to watch the entrance of this hospital

as people go in and come out. And suddenly you see the incinerated bodies of those people on the ground at what once was the entrance to the hospital. Where is the outrage? There's outrage on this show and on the shows of our friends and colleagues, but where is the outrage from people who could stop it? Donald Trump is a man of peace. Why the hell is he paying for this? It's growing. It's growing in Europe and it's growing in America. I think it's probably over 50% of the average population in both places. Where it needs to

grow and where it isn't growing, and I listened to Gideon Levy this morning and I think he's right, it's not growing in Israel. There is absolutely no disgust of consequence in Israel over what its military is doing in Gaza. None. Or the West Bank, or Lebanon, or Syria, where incidentally it has expanded its writ by kilometers in the last couple of weeks. I mean, it looks as if they want a big share of Syria. This is unbelievable that no one in Israel, and I agree with Gideon, there's no one in

Israel who has a conscience, period. Well, further to that argument, here is the Israeli UN ambassador, this guy's a real SOB, I think you know him, Danny Dannen, being interrogated by a reporter for Sky News. Now Sky News is the largest cable news in Europe. So it is mainstream media. But this reporter is really letting him have it. Watch his cold, steely-eyed, cold-blooded, couldn't care less responses to what she says. This begins with a statement at the Security Council by someone stating the Palestinian side, and then it jumps to this reporter, Yalda Hakim, ripping into Ambassador Dan and Chris Cutt, number 15. We have briefed this council in great detail on the extensive civilian harm that we witness daily.

Death, injury, destruction, hunger, disease, torture, other cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. We have described the deliberate obstruction of aid operations and the systematic dismantling of Palestinian life. This degradation of international law is corrosive and infectious. destruction of aid operations and the systematic dismantling of Palestinian life. This degradation of international law is corrosive and infectious. It is undermining decades of progress on rules to protect civilians from inhumanity and the violent and lawless among us. That was Tom Fletcher. And Ambassador Danon, he goes on to say, stop the 21st century atrocity in Gaza.

Will you act now decisively to prevent genocide in Gaza and to ensure respect for international humanitarian law? I just want to get your reaction to what Tom Fletcher was saying. We are in this war because of Hamas period. If you want to blame somebody, blame Hamas. Ambassador Danon, I am not talking about Hamas. reaching the most needy. In the last two months, 73 days, we have seen that there has been no aid that has entered Gaza. So while you can deflect and say that this is Hamas's responsibility, at the end of the day, you are the governing power in Gaza. You have

a responsibility to ensure that there is no famine and starvation in Gaza, which is what the world, including your allies and partners, are now accusing you of. And it's gone beyond accusation. They are saying that they are seeing it in real-time take place. So the only starvation in Gaza is the starvation of the hostages. You know this creep? No, God bless that reporter.

I listened to the UN Under Secretary yesterday. I listened to his whole presentation of the Security Council, almost broke out in tears. I mean, he's right. He's absolutely right. The first thing the UN Secretary General and the UN Security Council should do is kick Israel out of the United Nations, period. Just to make the blatant point that what that man said is true. We are destroying 50 plus years of humanitarian law, of law of armed conflict, of all the things that we purported to be the leader in instigating and promoting.

We are destroying it by supporting this basket case in the Eastern end of the Mediterranean, led by this homicidal maniac named Bibi Netanyahu. I wish that the president's people could listen to you, but I'm still taken aback that he listens to people like Lindsey Graham. Let me transition a little bit. Colonel, does the Defense Department need,

I can't even say this in a straight face, need a budget of $1 trillion a year? No, it needs to get rid of a lot of that because it's polluting the Defense Department. What we're doing is just rewarding more CEOs and COOs and shareholders in particular of companies that sell weapons to the world. Lockheed Martin being at the top of that pile.

It's incredible. We're just rewarding them. We're giving more and more money. And of course, some of that money comes back in donations to congressional members who vote for the appropriation of that money. So it's a cesspool. It's a cesspool in which Congress is guilty as charged. If the Congress were asked to approve the donation of a 400 million dollar jet

to the Defense Department transferred to Trump's library when he leaves office, do you think they would approve it? Well, I think they probably would given the current Well, I think they probably would given the current attitude over there. And I think it's a violation of not only ethics, but it's a violation of US law. You're not the emoluments clause and such is pretty pertinent here, I think. I mean, isn't the purpose of the emoluments clause to prevent the reality and the perception of a SWOOD Pro Quo between the head of a foreign state and the head of the United States government. I mean, would they give something worth $400 million without expecting something in return?

Not on your life. And especially not these people. These people believe, I remember Bendar Bush, these people believe that when they give a billion dollar bribe, for example, to the British government in order to change the sales of aircraft to South Africa and Blair gets a big share of that bribe, they believe that's the way you do business. Wow. friend Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's, a forceful advocate for peace in Gaza, shows a hearing at which HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was testifying to make his opinions known and he

was dragged out by the police. But I want you to watch what happened to him. This looks like dear old Ben orchestrated this. You watch the shouting and the Q and A as they're carrying it out. Now I know you've demonstrated and you've been carried out, but watch the way Ben did it. Cut number 16. Permitted while the committee conducts his business, Capitol Police are asked to remove the individuals from the hearing room. Move down the hallway. Ben, why are you getting arrested? Congress kills poor kids in Gaza by buying bombs and pays for it by kicking kids off

Medicaid in the US. Keep going down, keep going down the hallway. Ben, how many days have they been starving in Gaza? What did you think? Seventy-five days by now. the US. Keep going down. Keep going down the hallway. Ben, how many days have they been starving in Gaza? What has it been? Seventy-five days? Stop. Stop. I've been hanging my shoes. Far program. We were dead guys. Let's go. Everybody. I'm saying, everybody. Who stopped this? Pick it up. Who stopped this? Pick it up. Ben, what are you calling for the Congress and senators to do for Gaza?

Congress and senators need to ease the disease. They need to let food into Gaza. They need to let food in starving kids. What did you say in there, man? I said that Congress is paying to bomb poor kids in Gaza and paying for it by kicking poor kids off Medicaid in the US. Don't let them any closer. Stop! Everybody stop! Ben's a character and a true believer. I'm offended at the efforts to stifle free speech. That's the whole way of a congressional office building, a quintessential place for the expression of free speech. I agree with you.

I was there with Doctors Against Genocide and confronted those same Capitol Police. Their attitude and their treatment of those people was reprehensible. And Dennis Fritz and I sent emails and letters to the lawyers that represent those police and to the general counsel. We got, you know, sops back.

But you know, Ben's my boss, so I got to be careful. He's my boss at the Eisenhower Media Network. Ben did an interview, you may have seen it, with Tucker Carlson recently. And I think in that interview, Tucker asked good questions and Ben gave extraordinarily good answers and his answers More or less rehearse what you and I have just been saying about the reprehensibility the despicability of Israel Yeah, Ben's been on the show. He's a good friend of the show and he's friends of friends, as you know finally Colonel I Was very distressed to

see this. About a month ago the American intelligence community under the leadership of two people who had been there for a long time issued a report that Trende Aragwa, the group that Trump is railing against, apparently they're pretty bad people, as bad as they are, are not affiliated with or subject to the government of Venezuela, that they are adverse to the government of Venezuela. Yesterday Tulsi Gabbard fired the authors of those reports because the reports were not consistent with the White House narrative. I guess we're back to this again. Yeah, I heard about that and I don't know the full details of it and I'm not familiar

with this organization so I can't comment on the veracity of her claim. But I would say that it sounds legitimate to me that she shouldn't have done that, that she was doing it for political reasons and political reasons alone, which really disappoints me and Tulsi Galbert. Colonel, thank you very much for your time. My dear friend, I understand the rains destroyed your planned fishing trip. Is that true? And they did a first time in five years though. So God has been good. All right.

I want to come over and have some home cooked trout. We catch and release. Oh, all right. I'll go to the market and buy some. There's no Italian blood in me if you're catching and releasing, but God bless you that the fish get to live. Thank you, Colonel.

All the best. You too. Okay, thank you. Coming up at 4.30 from Turkey, Aaron Mate, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. MUSIC