Judging Freedom - Col. Lawrence Wilkerson : Turkey to Leave NATO and Join …

Episode Date: June 21, 2024

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Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Friday, June 21st, 2024, the first day of summer. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson joins us now. Colonel, it's always a pleasure. We have to keep meeting like this on Friday afternoon, so happy time for all summarily rejected by the West. He may have done that in order to Bigfoot whatever nonsense was going on at President Zelensky's so-called peace conference in Geneva, but the West actually argued, I'm quoting Chancellor Scholz now, nobody takes this seriously. What are your thoughts on the reasonableness of the offer and the timeliness of the offer? I thought it was typical Putin. I read somewhere today that he has an IQ three times higher than anybody in Washington. I don't

doubt that for a moment. Whether it's apocryphal or not, I don't doubt it for a moment. It was prudent, it was pragmatic, and it assessed the situation on the battlefield and the political situation as it truly is. He can't help it if the people on the other side are delusional. What are your thoughts? Because right after he made this offer, he got on a plane and flew to North Korea. How significant is that, Colonel? To me, it's very significant because I recall when I was helping, and others were more instrumental than I, of course, but to put China and Russia into the six-party talks to convince the North Koreans not to build any more

bombs. We thought they had four to six at that time. We discovered that from Kongsuk Ju and Yi Gun in conversations in Pyongyang. And Russia was a very good partner. And so as China, China wound up being the ultimate host of the six-party talks, as you may recall. We are at far distance from that now, and very concerning to me. One of the people I grew to respect most of all during that time, who was a Korea expert, North Korean expert, had lived in Pyongyang, says that Kim Jong-un has made a decision, and that decision is to discard the United States as a reasonable, talkable to power, and never to deal with them again. Second decision he's made, and more or less published in official papers, is that he is going to do what the other two Kims couldn't do,

reunify the peninsula. Third decision, and this Bob is estimating, is that he's probably going to use his most potent weapons in a blitzkrieg attack on the South at some time to be determined in the six-party talks, Russia, is more or less nosing up to and being very friendly with Kim Jong-un makes it even more disturbing. I can understand President Putin outsmarting and outflanking the American State Department and the West in general. I can understand President Putin wanting to say to the U.S., we can reach you, just like you're reaching us through Ukraine use of your military attacking inside Russia. So take a look at Havana and now take a look at Pyongyang. I cannot understand the reunification of the peninsula. That would be a catastrophic war. Yes.

That would be the only way to do it is by slaughtering maybe millions of people. But we've looked at that scenario in the military, and we're very much concerned with it, that it would be a blitzkrieg attack. It would invest Seoul, which, as you know, is just a few kilometers over the border. It would kill probably 100,000 to 200,000 people, wound more in the first days. There are over 250,000 Americans who couldn't even be evacuated and living in the greater Seoul area. How many troops do we have there, Colonel? About 35,000? They wouldn't even get involved, probably because it would be so quick. They would be defensive initially and then trying to take territory back. But he would present a

fait accompli and he would trade Seoul and what was the remaining of South Korea for an armistice for a stop to the conflict. Then he would have the peninsula. If he used nuclear weapons, then the devastation in Seoul and surrounding areas down to Pyongyang, maybe even all the way to Taichung, would be just incredible. And there wouldn't be anything much moving in that zone. So when the State Department says it is seriously, gravely concerned about the new relationship between Russia and China. It's not only talking about between Russia and North Korea, forgive me. It's not only talking about North Korea aiming at Honolulu or Los Angeles. It's talking about North Korea aiming at Seoul. Absolutely. And here's the concern now that's deepened. Russia was our erstwhile friend at that time. In fact, very cooperative

in the six-party talks, as I indicated. Now they're not. So were they to do that, and were the United States to do what it has always said it would do under the covers, Pyongyang would disappear if it ever used a nuclear weapon on the South, well, Russia is standing behind it now with 6,000 nuclear warheads. Do you see the mess you have created, Joe Biden, Tony Blinken, Lloyd Austin, Jake Sullivan? And of course, it goes long before that, Barack Obama, Bill Clinton, George W. Bush, everybody who did anything to attempt to move NATO eastward now has the bitter fruits of that in the back of their throats. Agreed?

Absolutely. And I remind you, I think I told you one time before, of that very, very hard, rock hard principle of international relations, conservation of enemies. A prudent state never wants more enemies than it can handle at one time. How many enemies can we handle? Joe Biden has the Marines doing war games on Kinmen Island off of Taiwan. He's picking a fight with Russia in Ukraine. His spokesperson, born in Israel and a former member of the IDF, but a U.S. State Department spokesperson, Amos Hochstein, said either yesterday or earlier today the U.S. would stand behind Israel if they're in a fight with Hezbollah. I don't know what that means, stand behind. Send troops there, use the Navy. I don't know what, but the point is, big picture, how many wars can the U.S. fight? We are draining our weaponry to give them to Ukraine.

How dangerously low is our supply of offensive missiles as we speak, Colonel Wilkerson? Very dangerously low. And let me tell you something else, too. You probably saw this, but Eisenhower has been nine months in the Red Sea. Right. We're down to only about five or six deployable carriers right now. Some are coming out of the way. Some are going into the maintenance cycle and so forth. One's going into a three or four year maintenance cycle for rehaul of the nuclear plant. But Ike is nine months out there. Those boys and girls haven't seen Virginia in nine months. So they've got to replace her. Well, what are they talking about replacing her with a baby flat top?

It'll have a marine baby carrier. It'll have F-35s on it because they can take off vertically. Well, guess what's going to happen when the Houthis shoot down a $400 million aircraft? We're going to the bottom of the pan, Judge, to get things to fulfill the commitments that we've created for ourselves. Never have more enemies than you can handle at one time. And it's draining us. Let's get a little granular. The New York Times, for the first time this week, recognized the existence of the Istanbul Agreement of March 2022, and that it was signed and initialed by Russian representatives and Ukrainian representatives. And they didn't actually say this, but it was disregarded after that infamous trip that Boris Johnson took to Vladimir Zelensky on the back. Do you see any turn of mainstream media to a more realistic view of this battle as opposed to mouthing whatever their CIA sources are telling them? polls two days ago, very sophisticated polls of the American people on about a dozen foreign

policy issues led by Ukraine and Gaza, of course. And it's turning. The tide is turning. Better than a majority are not too happy with Ukraine. They don't like Russia. In fact, if you look down the poll at the question, do you hate Putin or whatever the question was, I forget now. But no, not too many Americans like Putin. But they realized the situation in Ukraine is untenable and we need to stop it and get out. Gaza was even worse. And foreign policy in general, if you put the questions together with the American people, has become an issue. It rarely is. It's going to be an issue in November, I think. And the issue is America doesn't seem to know what it's doing in the world.

Is Joe Biden using Vladimir Zelensky, and is Vladimir Zelensky using Joe Biden? Both think they are, yes. I think that's true. Because without Joe Biden, Zelensky is either dead or out of office. He's already legally out of office. And Joe Biden, of course, has us so deeply invested in Ukraine, he has

to show some affability toward Zelensky. He can't just drop him now. He may be able to do it on November 6th, whatever the outcome is on November 5th, but he can't do it now. General Ryder, I'm talking about the people that don't care about public opinion, the serious military people like you once were and like you are and have been familiar with. Do they recognize how dangerously low America's military supplies are? The colonel and captain Navy rank levels do. I'm not so sure there are many flag officers, if they do, would have the courage to tell anybody. When you say flag officer, you mean generals and admirals.

Right. Even their own superiors. Even C.Q. Brown, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, for example. Because they're political animals or because they're naive? That's part of it. And because, Judge, the real star on a full colonel, promotable to brigadier or upward, the real star on this horizon is a job with Lockheed Martin, a job with one of Lockheed Martin's affiliates, a $500,000, $600,000 job a year or more. That's the real, if you're a four star, you're looking at two or $3 million a year. 26 out of 32 three and four stars last year went into the military industrial complex. 26 out of 32. They don't care what the president wants to do. All they want is to ensure

their sinecure in some defense contractor where they'll be gravy trained for life. Let's transfer over to Israel and Gaza. I was startled by the public spat between the IDF and Prime Minister Netanyahu, because I'm, as a lawyer and constitutional scholar, I'm accustomed to the American system. I can't imagine a public spat between the president and the Pentagon, but I'm going to guess, and Scott Ritter and others have reinforced this upon me, that the prime minister of Israel is not the commander-in-chief of the IDF. Is that so? That is right. Now, Netanyahu gives every appearance of being, but in terms of legalities, and I don't know what that means since they don't have a constitution, but basically what Israel does every time it has a war, even a little one, it turns everything over to the IDF. And the prime minister stands in the background and takes care of the politics of the matter.

That's the way Israel runs. So the IDF said we can't defeat Hamas. It's an idea and you can't defeat an idea. You've said that. McGregor said that. McGovern said that You've said that. McGregor said that. McGovern said that. Johnson said that. Matt Ho has said it.

Almost everybody that's been on the show, Professor Sachs, Professor Mearsheimer, Netanyahu challenged it. And then the IDF challenged his challenge. Yes. Where are they going in Gaza? Here we go. This is the prime minister's statement.

I'll read it for those enjoying the show, audio only. So this is from the prime minister's office after the IDF said Hamas is an idea and we can't defeat it. The security cabinet chaired by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has defined the destruction of Hamas' military and governing capability as one of the goals of the war. The IDF, of course, is committed to this. The IDF refutes that. Here's the IDF. In his words, the IDF spokesperson referred to the destruction of Hamas as an ideology and an idea, and he said it in a clear and explicit manner. Any other claim is taking things out of context.

Wow. I don't know how much longer this is going to go on. I don't know what it does for Netanyahu standing with the Israeli public, which he may have to face if he doesn't face a panel of Israeli judges soon. Well, the Israeli people are used to this kind of contention between prime ministers and heads of IDF and even generals within the IDF. This is a little more intense because, one, I think the Israeli people really do not like Bibi Netanyahu. They may be for what he's doing in a majority, but they really do not like him. And secondly, because this is a very different situation. If you parse those two statements closely, you'll see the one refers to Hamas and to its ideology, whereas the other one refers to limiting their capability to do damage in Gaza.

Now, those are very carefully parsed statements. You could see John Kirby delivering either one of them or both of them. In Kirby's case, both, right? I can see it. Both of them. So the idea that you can keep Hamas from being overly influential in Gaza might be tenable. The idea that you can eliminate them totally, which was what Bibi said all along, is ridiculous. If Israel makes the mistake of picking a fight with Hezbollah, how perilous will its situation be, Colonel Wilkerson? Very, unless the United States decides to weigh in.

And I think what Hochstein really is doing is reassuring people that we will. What does that mean? Troops on the ground? Go back to 82 when we had to bail Schroen out when he was minister of defense and invaded Lebanon. And it means a lot of dead Americans, 242 at one fell swoop, if you'll recall. The New Jersey battleship at the time shelling the mountains and all manner of problems for the Israelis as they lingered for, what, 13, 14 years. We had to evacuate Arafat to Tunisia, as I recall. A real mess and a mess that didn't go away for a decade plus. I think Israel regretted very much so ever having performed that operation

and also damaged their reputation majorly because when they were pulling major military elements out, you might remember, they massacred a bunch of Palestinians in the refugee camps, like they're doing in Gaza right now. A preface for that, if you will. So it's a real problem if we don't go with them. And I'm sure that's one reason Netanyahu's coming here. He wants ironclad assurances from Lindsey Graham, from Roger Wecker, from all the people he needs to talk to,

especially the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and the House Armed Services Committee. He wants assurances that the United States will be with him against Hezbollah. It also means replenishing massively. And here we come to your point about us diminishing our resources, his air defense resources, because we saw that video. We know Hezbollah knows where almost every critical target in Israel is, and they're going to hit them all, 150,000 missiles. Hold your thought on the video for a second. Here's Amos Hochstein. Now, Mr. Hochstein is the State Department's chief representative for the issues involving Hezbollah and Israel and the West Bank. He is also born in Israel, a former member of the IDF, and holds dual Israeli-U.S. citizenship. Here he is on June 18, cut number 12. The conflict along the blue

line between Israel and Hezbollah has gone on for long enough. Innocent people are dying, property is damaged, families are shattered, and the Lebanese economy continues to decline. The country is suffering for no good reason. It's in everyone's interest to resolve it quickly and diplomatically. That is both achievable and it is urgent. Since he said that, he also said on paper, the United States will support Israel in the battle with Hezbollah. Now, I don't know what that means. He just talked about this. I don't know if that means with the U.S. Navy, with troops on the ground, or with just more material than were already sending

them. You saw the tape of Bibi Netanyahu complaining the ammunition wasn't coming fast enough. He's talking about one tranche of 2,000-pound bombs. Everything else is getting over there three times a day. I don't know Amos from Methuselah, but I'll tell you what, as an American citizen, it curdles my blood to see another dual citizen, Israeli, negotiating such critical issues for my country. Douglas Spife, the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy for Donald Rumsfeld, surrounded every day in his office by Mossad operatives who didn't even have to go through the security checks at the river entrance of the Pentagon to get into the building. That curdles my blood. God, did they carry arms into the building? Who knows?

They were never searched. They were never asked for identification. Douglas Spife assured their entry into the Pentagon 24-7. Wow. Tell us about the significance of the drone that Hezbollah sent over Israel and the videos that it took? They got some very good targeting information, extraordinary targeting information, almost what we would call critical infrastructure in the United States, every point of that critical infrastructure from Dimona, the nuclear complex, to as you were intimating before, I didn't know this, but you told me, probably a chemical plant that is very dangerous to all manner of Israeli defense systems and airplane, you name it. They got pictures of all the critical infrastructure and critical points in Israel, which is not a very big place.

We forget that sometimes. Right, right. Talk to us briefly, please, about Turkey. You have stated recently your belief that Turkey will leave NATO. And when you made that statement, you also expressed an opinion of the size, proficiency, and professionalism of the Turkish military. I've known the Turkish military for a long time. One of my best friends at the Armored Career Corps was a Turkish major whom I was partially an advisor to. They have the best army in NATO, and that includes the United States Army. They have a very good air force and they have a very good Navy. Their air force is top drawer too. If they left NATO, then the most significant land army in NATO and unanchoring the southern flank, as it were, if they did, would leave, would not be a part of

NATO anymore. And you have to ask yourself a question, okay, look how strategically that country is placed between Europe and Asia, where would they go? To whom would they go? That's the huge question. They'd be a major player in BRICS almost overnight. Absolutely. Absolutely. Do you think that Iran, Turkey, and Russia would allow the United States materially to degrade Hezbollah in order to protect Netanyahu and Israel? That's a big question. It's a huge question. I don't think with everything else that's going on right now, unless China were to say, absolutely, my blessing upon you, brethren, they would do that. But I think the repercussions and the asymmetrical responses might be quite devastating.

Wow. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, a pleasure, my dear friend. This is much food for thought on a summer Friday afternoon here in the Northeast. It's nearly a hundred degrees, but a, a very, very fertile, uh, uh, food for thought.

And I'm deeply grateful for it. And I thank you very much for it, sir. Have a great, uh, weekend. Stay cool. You too.

And hold on. It's going to go to a hundred soon. Probably. Right, right, right. Thank you, Colonel Wilkerson.

Take care. Pleasure, sir. Coming up, uh, at three 30, Colonel Douglas, Eastern Time, Colonel Douglas McGregor, and at 4.15 Eastern Time, the Intelligence Community Roundtable with Larry Johnson and Ray McGovern. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thanks for watching.