Judging Freedom - COL. Lawrence Wilkerson: US Empire Failing

Episode Date: August 29, 2024

COL. Lawrence Wilkerson: US Empire FailingSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Thursday, August 29th, 2024. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson joins us now. Colonel, always a pleasure, my dear friend. I want to talk to you today about big picture, about the growth and the failures of the American empire. But before we do, I need to address the relatively breaking news. What is your take on the invasion in Kursk, which now seems to be expanding the geographical area that originally it took, which doesn't seem to be abating at all, contrary to what we all thought would happen once the Kremlin realized that it had been caught off guard? Where do you stand on this? Who was behind it? How wise or foolhardy was it? Let me start by saying one thing that I watched Doug McGregor the other day. I think it was for a show. And normally I agree with Doug McGregor, but there's one thing I don't agree with him on, and that is the absolute ubiquity and prescience and cognizance

of our intelligence community of everything that goes on, particularly in the Middle East and in Ukraine. Remember, I was in the room with George Tenet and John McLaughlin and the best analysts the CIA could put before Colin Powell, and they lied like toads. Or if they weren't lying, they were idiots, and I think it was a combination of both. Saddam Hussein did have weapons of mass destruction. And that same group missed the Indian nuclear test, the Pakistani nuclear test, missed the end of the Cold War, and missed 9-11. I'm sorry. The U.S. intelligence community has not lived up to its $100 billion price tag and often doesn't know what's going on and often tells its leadership the wrong thing. Notwithstanding the fact that they have the technical ability to capture every keystroke on every mobile device and desktop in the U.S.

and to monitor every piece of data transmitted on fiber optic cable coming into, going out of, or within the U.S. and to monitor every piece of data transmitted on fiber optic cable coming into, going out of, or within the U.S. That's not even- And that makes them very, very capable vis-a-vis you and me. Right. But everyone in the world now knows that. Let me give you a really good example. We had a terrorist we were tracking up in the northern hills of Iraq, and we knew that he was using a very sophisticated new cell phone and avoiding our intercepts, NSA intercepts. Within a week or two, we had figured out how to get in there and listen to his cell phone. Well, it didn't take very long. A week later, he got a new cell phone and a different technique. So our enemies are not as stupid as the American people.

Let me just put it that way. And the American people are quiet. They let us spy on them. They let us read their mail. They let us do whatever we need to do. They need to do. But in terms of our intelligence capability vis-a-vis our enemies, I am not very happy with it.

I'm not content with it. I'm not sure that it's even capable enough to keep us out of real messes. And we get spoofed all the time. And we get spoofed by some really, some people who don't have access to the high technology that we have access to. They just have access to common sense and they use that common sense. Well, surely MI6 and CIA supported and approved and probably gave guidance to whoever conducted the invasion, NATO or Ukraine. It now appears as though it was both. No? I don't know. I really don't. I think I said before, there's two possibilities. European command probably executed it and told everybody else, you have plausible deniability, so we won't tell you about it. And so Austin was telling the truth when he said essentially he didn't know it was going to happen. Or on the other hand, they're all lying. I kind of have a hard time, except maybe with Jake Sullivan and Tony Blinken, whom I have no difficulty to believe are lying. If you watch Jake Sullivan's

interview in China, how in the world can you get up there and talk about lecturing the Chinese on human rights and international responsibility when you're supporting what's going on in Gaza? That's the height of hypocrisy. And Jake's standing up there doing that. But at the same time, I think I have to say that they probably knew it was going to happen. And to your question, are they expanding this because they think they have achieved something? Are they expanding it because they want to try to rescue those who are in the cauldron, as it were, that the Russians are going to create for that group? Or are they doing it because they don't have any other ideas what to do? I just did an interview with a Russian television station. The first question they asked me is, why do you think Lukashenko moved a third of his forces down onto the Ukraine border? Zelensky is apoplectic about it right now. Why do you think he did that?

Well, it's only 20,000 troops because the whole Belarusian force is only about 60,000, but still it's 20,000 troops. I couldn't answer that question. What is Zelensky talking about and what is Lukashenko doing? They bend the ground for Russia to maneuver in and to threaten from the North all along. I don't know what's going on there. And I dare say our intelligence community hasn't a clue either. What is your view? You have been rightly critical, pointing to example after example after example of American intelligence failures. What is your view, Colonel Wilkerson, of Russian intelligence today? Did they know this was coming? Were they caught flat-footed in Kursk? I think they were caught flat-footed.

I really do. I don't think they envision that that really deserted area other than the nuclear reactor. And that's one reason the reactor is there, because it's a virtually deserted area. It's trees and forests and rivers and streams. That's why the reactor is put in that location. So I think the Russians were caught off guard, but I don't think it's caught them sufficiently off guard to stop them from doing what they're doing right now, which is eating up the Ukrainian military on the main line of defense for Ukraine. Well, on that you agree with Colonel Wilkerson and Scott Ritter and Larry Johnson, our military people, but are the Russians resisting the expansion of the Kursk geographic domination,

which we understand now, to me living in New Jersey, this is a mind-boggling number, amounts to 300 square miles? Well, 300 square miles is not that much when you think about doing the math. It's really not that big a sale yet. I don't know. I really can't say. If they are reinforcing strategic failure, that would not surprise me. That is one of the greatest mistakes military generals and admirals make is- What do you mean reinforcing strategic failure? Well, you fail somewhere, so you reinforce that failure and you make the failure deeper and worse. What you should do when you see a failure and it's taking up what I understand

is the majority, if not all of their strategic reserve, if you see that as not really accomplishing what you wanted, which I think was to get that reactor and use it as a negotiating point worthy to go to negotiations. Now that's failed. Now they're going to pump more troops into it if what you're saying is valid. Then they're reinforcing strategic failure because the real failure, Ukraine is being beaten. It's being eaten alive up on the main line. Right. Let's switch to Israel before we get to the big picture about American empire. Is it wise or is it dangerous for Prime Minister Netanyahu to have ordered these pinprick attacks on Hezbollah and to be slaughtering, slaughtering with ground troops Palestinian residents in the West Bank. What he's doing on the West Bank is truly heinous, but it is right in line with his plan. And let me tell you what I just discovered about that plan. I've suspected this all along.

In fact, I think I said on your show some months ago that I suspected this. It's not like October the 7th was brought about by Netanyahu, but it's like 9-11 with us. There were some people poised to take advantage of 9-11 and moved out smartly to do so right away. They weren't complicit with it, but they moved out smartly to take advantage of it. Neoconservatives, most of them. That's what Netanyahu has done. And here's what Haaretz uncovered. A couple of days ago, I found these documents. One of them is called Israeli settlers have a master plan to cleanse the land of Palestinians. The second one is called road to redemption. How Israel's War Against Hamas Turned into a Springboard for Jewish Settlement in Gaza. Bingo. That has described Netanyahu's ultimate plan. And he's got to consolidate on the West Bank as fast as he can, as Ben-Gavir

and his settlers are already moving into North Gaza with shovels and pickaxes and AR-15s, and they're already clearing rubble, and they're already getting ready to establish settlements. This has been Bibi's plan all along. He hopes it will be two-pronged. One, it will consolidate his hole in the Golan, in the West Bank, in East Jerusalem, and consolidate means killing some more people there and dispossessing them of their land, and begin to do the same thing in Gaza, and that Palestinians, including their leadership, particularly the PA, will get so tired of it and so used to it happening that a lot of them will just pick up and leave and go to other countries. And he's got plans under both of these programs

to entice those other countries to take the Palestinians that he can't kill. That's Bibi's ultimate plan. And we're playing right along with it. When and how will this ever be stopped? It can only be stopped by force. And it could be stopped immediately if we suddenly picked up the phone, called Bibi, and said no more weapons, no more guns, no more artillery, no more ammunition, nothing. Stop. He'd have to stop, especially the peril he's in right now with the possibility of a multi-front war and some fairly significant enemies on those fronts. If we stopped everything and told him we will not be there with you, that would end it. It would end it overnight. It'd also end his political career and he'd go to

jail. When he spoke to the Congress, you know, he said a lot of incendiary things. He asked the Congress to remember one thing. I'm now going to read. It's only two lines. My friends, if you remember one thing, one thing from this speech, remember this. Our enemies are your enemies. Our fight is your fight, and our victory will be your victory. Is there any truth in that? Not a bit. Not a bit. There may be some ISIS characters on the fringes. There may be some people like Al-Qaeda who have this, harbor this feeling they want to get at the big giant. But they're few and far between, except in Yemen, where Ali Soufan keeps telling me that Al-Qaeda in Yemen is getting very powerful

again. And we've caused that to a certain extent by the support we gave to the Saudis in the war in Yemen. But there aren't that many in this region. What they're against is they're against the disp Satan on the other side of the Atlantic, I find that very difficult to believe for two reasons. One, they don't have the incentive. Their gripes, their pains are local. And two, they don how did the United States acquire or construct man supply and support 750 military bases around the world in 80 different countries? With $75 billion of taxpayer money minimum every year. That's how they do it.

But it is extraordinary when you think about the rest of the world, including China and Russia. The rest of the world, as best I can count, and I've talked to DOD about it, has about somewhere, depending on what you count as a base, you want to count that weather installation down in Tierra del Fuego in Argentina that the Chinese have. Okay, let's count

it. If you count everything, they have about 80 and we have 800. But what is the mentality that established this? Is it the Joe Biden mentality that we are the indispensable nation and we can do whatever we want and the rest of the world can't get along with us, can't get along without us? Is it the Madeleine Albright mentality? We can kill anybody, even children, if it's necessary to advance our ideas. Is that it? Is it the concept of how to build an empire? That is basically the ideology behind it. But the reality of it is we're the only country in the world that does this. In fact, in the stretch of human history, 5,000 some years, no other empire has ever done this.

We have divided the world into fiefdoms for four-star admirals and generals. And those fiefdoms become entities unto themselves. They run their areas. They have peacetime strategies, wartime strategies. I was there. I was a war planner for two of the biggest ones. They run the world. One time, the Japanese prime minister said to me, the prime minister said to me, Larry, when Sink Pack, at that time we called him Sink Pack, he's now the commander of the Indian Pacific Command, when he comes to Tokyo to see me or my foreign minister, he can come to see me or my foreign minister because he carries battle groups and fighter wings and bomber wings and all manner of ground forces behind him. When the assistant secretary for East Asia and

Pacific comes, I relegate him to a third or a fourth level functionary. That's the reality of the empire today. The military- Who is the most powerful person in Europe? General Cavalli? Absolutely. In terms of the United States and its policies in Europe, that's the most important person. And you can talk all day long about the Assistant Secretary of State for Eurasia. You can talk about the Secretary of State, talk about the National Security Advisor. Yes, when they're present and they're involved with the leadership, they are important, but they go home. The military is there 24-7. Colonel, you were once in the belly of the beast in the George W. Bush administration.

You're now an anti-war activist who was attacked, not physically, but verbally, not by name, but you were there, by Prime Minister Netanyahu for marching outside the Capitol building. What caused you to migrate from one position to the other? Well, let me set one thing correct here. I'm not against war. I'm against stupid war. I'm against endless war. I'm against endless war. I'm against imperial wars. If we have to defend ourselves from a real enemy, a real security threat, and war is the only answer, I'll be right there on the front line. I'm 80 years old now. Are you 80?

Boy, you're looking at a lot younger. God bless you. Well, I will be in four months. I feel like it already. We'll celebrate. Back to this issue of your becoming an anti-war activist. Your anti-war activism is against genocide in Gaza, wastage of life in Ukraine. But you weren't this way when you were running the State Department.

I grew that way very quickly in the four years that I was there. I grew adamantly that way. Powell was that way when I joined him as chairman. He surprised me greatly when I joined him in January of 1989, because he said, we're approaching a wonderful situation. He'd been in St. Catherine's Palace. He'd been with Gorbachev. He'd been with Reagan. He'd been with H.W. when he was his vice president. And then he'd been with him when he was the president. He knew that the Cold War was coming to an end. Bob Gates and others were criticizing Colum from one side of the street to the other, saying the bear will be back, the bear will be back.

You shut up saying these things, you know, because he was going down. He was going around saying things like, what does the preacher do when the devil dies? That's essentially what Gorbachev had told him in St. Catherine's Palace, that the devil was dying. And he wanted to give the American people a peace dividend. And we gave him 25% of the defense budget in the first three years of his chairmanship with the president's full blessing. And we were very euphoric about that moment because we thought, and H.W. Bush thought, that we were not only unipolar, but we were unipolar for the good, for the better. What he wanted in his new world order, as he called it, was to implement all those wonderful things we'd said in the 50s about the United Nations.

And that's why he did the first Iraq war, because we had a United Nations resolution that said, go kick Saddam's army out of Kuwait. And that's why he stopped. And he didn't go into Baghdad, because that's all the UN told him to do. And then we screwed the pooch. Ever since we have been in these endless, stupid, idiotic wars, killing young Americans, killing thousands of other people in the world, putting thousands more, tens of thousands into refugee status, and for what purpose? Were you in a position to advise the president and the secretary of state on whether or not Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction when President George W. Bush was hell-bent on invading, no matter what the intelligence

community told him? This is a long story, and I'm not going to bore you with it. If you've ever seen the movie by Rob Reiner, Shock and All, I'm one of the sources in there. Because midway through this, and it really was my experience out at Langley, I became a source for Walt Strobel and other people at the particular newspaper, Knight Ritter then they called it, that was exposing all these lies. And in that movie, I'm played by this old dude who looks a lot like me. You mean you weren't played by Tom Cruise? Yeah, no, no. He was a good character actor there.

I told my wife, I said, he's a really good character actor. We did a special showing over in the, I forget where it was, but we had Ken Shinseki there. We had Joe Galloway there, who was a dear friend. Joe was my conduit. I'd meet with Joe at the Thai Kingdom down on K Street, and I'd spill the beans to him, and he would run, tell Walt Strobel and others about it. So I learned quickly that I was wrong. I learned that what we'd done out at the CIA was wrong.

And I did what I could to attenuate that error. Not enough, of course. And ever since then, I've been speaking out because I saw what the empire did in that effort. And I believe that every war since then has been similar. And yet this empire mentality, which is embraced by both major political parties and 90% of the Congress, there are some libertarians on the right and some progressives on the left that don't embrace it, seems never to go away and only to be expanded. If the American defense establishment is worried about Russia and China, we spend more than Russia and China, Great Britain, and all of Europe combined on just defense. We do, but that is a powerful argument, but it's not necessarily the powerful argument people think it is because much of that money we waste. Very frankly, we waste probably 45 to 50% of that money. Will the elites who run the Department of State and the Defense Department, no matter

what party is in the White House, eventually say enough is enough with American empire? I think not, because primacy is our mission. Primacy is our strategy. If you listen to Jake Sullivan in Beijing, as inexpert and idiotic as some of his remarks were, hypocritical too, you heard the soft face of empire, if you will, talking to what they suspect is an aspirant empire that is going to threaten them to the extent that they're going to have to fight it one day. That's it. That's what we have for leaders. That's what we have for a policy and a strategy. And that's what, unfortunately, and I'm sad to say, most empires in the past have had at the end of their term of life. Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson, it's a pleasure, my dear friend. I hope

you didn't mind me getting into some of the personal, but your personal professional history is fascinating to the viewers of this show and certainly to the host of the show. I love our friendship. I enjoy our collaboration. I hope we can keep doing it for as long as you want every week. Just so long as I don't pass out and die. A very youthful 80. God love you. Thank you, Colonel.

Have a great holiday weekend. We'll see you next week. You too. Thank you. Of course. Wow. Great interview on his part. Coming up at 345 today, the Intelligence Community Roundtable, Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern.

And at 430 today, Aaron Maté, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thanks for watching!