Judging Freedom - Colonel Douglas Macgregor: Netanyahu’s Days Are Numbered

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

Colonel Douglas Macgregor: Netanyahu’s Days Are NumberedSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Monday, June 10th, 2024. Colonel Douglas McGregor joins us now. Colonel, always a pleasure, my dear friend. Thank you for your time. You and I communicated over the weekend about the final touches being put on a Russian Iranian, as I understand it, defense pact, which President Putin is prepared to sign and which will await the signature of the new president of Iran. Can you tell us what is agreed to in this and what the significance of those agreements might be in the future, particularly for Israel? Well, there's an agreement on the part of Russia to provide nuclear technology so that the Iranians can build and expand their own nuclear power capability. I don't know to what extent that also finds its way into military application, but I would be unsurprised if that was not the case.

There are a number of other areas of mutual cooperation, economic, as well as military and diplomatic. But we need to keep something in mind, and that is that the Russians and the Iranians have had their differences over the years. This is particularly true in the Caspian Sea area, where the two interests have frequently collided, and this seems to have been ironed out. So we're talking about not a hard and fast ironclad alliance, but a recognition that they share enough interests economically, socially, culturally to justify this. And they

recognize that they are confronted with, for the most part, the same array of opponents. And those are largely the United States, the United Kingdom, and Canada. And what does this mean, if anything, for BRICS and for the ease with which Russian trade and commercial goods can be moved? Oh, I think it facilitates everything. What we discussed before, this route that runs from the indian ocean or the arabian sea portion of it all the way up through the caucasus into russia we were talking about the movement of everything from natural gas to various precious metals copper or iron ore various things even uranium those things will be moved it'll'll be a superhighway of sorts. The Saudis are also investing in it, as are the Chinese and others, and India. So this is part

of a larger strategy for what I would call Eurasian continental cooperation. And we are going to regard all of this as very threatening, but actually speaking for the people that live in Eurasia, it's a good thing. Now, as far as, again, the Iranian connection to Russia in the event of a war, I think there have been lots of material and intelligence shared and a recognition that an attack on Iran has to be resisted by much more than just Iran, particularly if it comes to the united states and israel is this likely to help iran uh develop a nuclear weapon that is deliverable to its adversaries in a destructive way well there have been reports that the iranians now have a nuclear

warhead uh again that's a that's a matter that only the intelligence community could absolutely verify or confirm, but I would be unsurprised if that did not already exist. If you look at Israel that has roughly 300 such weapons, it's very bellicose attitudes right now towards everyone in the region, and the probability that Israel is going to try very, very hard to attack Hezbollah and bring us into the process. It means, inevitably, a collision with Iran. At the same time, of course, you have Turkey, which has now expressed an interest to join BRICS. I think this is leading Turkey down a somewhat similar path with Russia as Iran has been on, perhaps not quite as close, but nevertheless close. Putin has gone out of his way to reassure the Turkish state of his goodwill. He's helped

Erdogan on more than one occasion, particularly in dealing with internal enemies. I think the cards are aligning very favorably right now across Eurasia for Russia and China. I mean, does this mean if the Israelis engage in some sort of a full-scale attack on Hezbollah that Iran would come to their defense, to Hezbollah's defense, and it might have Russian backing? I think we have to reckon with that as a very real possibility. Again, that's always been in the background. We've talked about what happens if you attack Iran. Right.

Russia can't afford to let Iran be destroyed. It's simply not in Russia's interest. Now, how far will that help and assistance extend? I suppose that depends on what the Israelis decide to do. But I think we have to understand that right now, the Turks and the Iranians are talking and have found a lot of common ground, which is not usually being the case historically for those two, because there are also rumblings of an impending Kurdish war against the Turks. And of course, part of the Kurdish rebellion is subsidized,

financed, equipped, and partially managed by Israel. The Kurds have always been an ally for the Israelis in their attempts to balance or counterbalance their potential foes and adversaries. Of course, that includes Turkey. Colonel, I'm going to put up the map that you sent us last time. I suppose that the flow of goods on the red line is now enhanced with the Russian-Iran treaty? Well, very definitely. I mean, all of these things are tied together. What we're seeing is a coherent strategy by the Russians to organize the Near East, Central Asia, India, China,

all of these countries around economic commonality of interest, trade interests, and increasingly military interests. Now, India, I'm sure is going to remain neutral, but it's certainly a form of neutrality that leans heavily in the direction of Russia. So this is a breakthrough moment. This is a dramatic game changer in the history of Eurasia. And we increasingly are on the outside. Now that the Saudis have announced they have no intention of renewing the petrodollar, that bodes ill for our interests across the region. So I don't know where we go very shortly. We're ultimately going to be forced out of the Middle East completely. That leaves us in Israel, assuming that Israel is not consumed

in a devastating war. Our friend and colleague, I think you probably agree with him, Professor Sachs says that BRICS is wealthier and has more of what we would call a gross domestic product than the G7 does. Oh, yeah. Well, the other thing, too, and this seems to escape people inside the Beltway. I'm always shocked. They don't seem to understand that China and India, the rest of Southeast Asia, Japan, you lump these countries together, and that is most of the world's population. And yet we tend to treat it as though they're almost a backwater within the broader framework of American grand strategy, if such a thing exists.

I don't know how we've done it for so long. We've always treated Latin America with abject neglect. But we are also treating India with almost the same amount of abject neglect. And the Indians, of course, as you know, I don't think they even have an ambassador in Washington at this point. I mean, or maybe it's not. Maybe they do. It's we who don't have an ambassador in India. But for a long time, there was just sort of a gap in our relations. And you would think at this point in time, with the growth economically and militarily in India,

that you would have a keen interest in cultivating very good trade relations with India. So I don't know. I'm at a loss to try and understand people in Washington. Do you think it might be cultural? So I don't know. I'm at a loss to try and understand people in Washington. Do you think it might be cultural, the idea of American hegemony and exceptionalism and imperialism, ideas that you and I and people watching us now have condemned, but which still animate the foreign policy of the United States and have since World War II? Well, I think maybe that's true true but there's a simpler explanation and that is that the people that live in washington dc simply cannot

reconcile the world that exists with the world they want to live in and for the last 20 plus years we've employed military power we've employed economic power financial sanctions or financial incentives to essentially bully people into line with whatever we wanted to do in their particular country or region and we're not able to do that anymore we are seeing these counterbalances rise up in terms of alliances and coalitions and economic agreements. That's really what we're watching right now. And by the way, things are bubbling in the same direction down in South America and much of Africa.

We've recently been tossed out of Central Africa. People are upset because theoretically the Russians have been invited in to help and insist. But the point is that we're being booted out not because of anything the Russians have been invited in to help and insist. But the point is that we're being booted out, not because of anything that Russians did, but because we're viewed as an annoyance and an irritant. I mean, the president of the Philippines has now expressed publicly his

reservations about the agreements that have been reached with us in the Philippines, because they understand that there are reasons to cooperate with us, but at the same time, they don't want us to drag them into a confrontation with China. They're quite willing to handle their differences with the Chinese on their own without our participation. So this is a global phenomenon right now. We're not just being isolated, but we're doing much to ourselves,

because as I say, people in Washington don't like the world that exists out there. They simply don't want it. And so they become authoritarian globalists. They talk about save our democracy, but it has nothing to do with democracy. Democracy is a fraud. It's a facade. And it's really global authoritarianism. You call it military hegemony, but I think it's bound up with this larger denationalization of the United States and open borders, denationalization of the European states and mass migrations into Europe from the Near East and Africa and elsewhere. All of this is of a piece. All of it is destructive. And the world is increasingly saying they don't want it. Well, the European politics is chaotic as we speak.

The vote for the European Parliament moving decidedly to the right, the dissolution of the French National Assembly, the likely crushing of the conservatives in the British Parliament, and who knows what in Germany where his approval ratings are in the team. Chancellor Scholz makes Joe Biden look good by comparison. Well, you know that historically in Europe, people used to say, or actually the man who said it who's most famous of all was metanish the foreign minister of austria who was the model or idol if you will of henry kissinger when he wrote his dissertation called world restored it was all about metanation his efforts to hold things together as austria was dragged kicking and screaming into a very new world after the Napoleonic Wars.

But Médonais used to say when they catch a cold in Paris, the rest of Europe, or excuse me, when Paris sneezes, the rest of Europe catches a cold. I think we're going to see something like that happen because the French are usually a bellwether for revolutionary change. And they are at the beginning of revolutionary change, let there be no doubt about it. And as France goes, I think ultimately the rest of the continent will follow. But the Germans, like the Scandinavians and the Dutch and the Austrians, they're pretty stolid.

They'll grudgingly abandon the status quo, but it won't be sudden and dramatic the way it is with France. So I'm sure Schultz and his friends are sitting around saying, oh, we're in a lot of trouble, and they are. But I don't see a no-confidence vote immediately on the horizon, sadly, because that's the only way to dispose of Schultz. The situation in Paris, though, is very different. I think Mr. Macron is genuinely afraid.

Yes. I'm smiling at the, when Paris sneezes, Europe catches a cold, De Gaulle's comment. Now, the first part is consistent with what you said. The second part is typical Charles De Gaulle. France is Europe and De Gaulle is France. We're going to take a break. When we come back, Colonel, I'm going to ask you if the intentional slaughter of 260 civilians in Gaza in order to extract four hostages is a war crime.

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You have a moral right to dispatch the enemy. Remember, these are the Amalek, the subhumans, the animals that deserve the worst. So I think we need to keep in mind, understand how the Israelis look upon this. This is an object lesson. Of course, you would think at this point, having already killed, what, 40,000 people and wounded another 50 or 60,000, the object lesson would have been administered, but apparently not. So from the standpoint of being a war crime in a court of law, they may say,

and you would know more about this than I do, that this was accidental, that all of these people who were killed happened to be in the way. It was all collateral damage. So I don't know how you could easily prove it. I mean, on its face, it seems unconscionable. It seems incomprehensible to me.

But if you understand the background and the context, it's predictable. Is the resistance to Israel still in and maybe about to come out of the closet? Oh, I think so. I think you've got uh talks behind the scenes i think certainly the arab states now are increasingly united in taking action which they think they can do these the egyptians are ready to strike but remember none of the arab states really is powerful enough to take on the is for any length of time. This may come as a surprise, but all of these Arab states don't sit around building military power for the purpose of destroying Israel.

So that means that without the Turks and the Iranians, there's not much chance that the Arab states can do much. The one dramatic exception, of course, is Hezbollah, which has the capacity to destroy a large portion of the country and i read some reports last night which i can't confirm that his below is already operating inside northern israel and that's not hard to do they have tunnels they have ways to do it and they appear to have begun doing that and i'm sure that's putting enormous pressure on mr netanyahu who has hundreds of thousands of people living in central Israel now that were formerly living in the north of the southern portions of the country and can't live there anymore.

Are Netanyahu's days numbered? I don't know. He has the support over 80 percent. And I think others have told you this from the population. As long as that remains unchanging, I would say no. Now, could that change? Well, I think if the war spreads and Israel proper is attacked and in the middle of the country are not touched byantz, to resign from the War Cabinet, the beginning of unraveling for Netanyahu, or at least a blow to him? Or is this just sort of internecine personality power politics? I don't think this is an unraveling.

Gantz was the former chief of defense. He's a gentleman. I met him very briefly. He's not an extremist by any means. That doesn't mean he disagrees with what's happening in Gaza. have very some second thoughts about spreading the war simply because I think he's unsure that Israel will have ironclad support from us if they do it uh I don't know but uh eisencott that's a different person entirely but both of these men are not figures in the Israeli parliament they don't represent a significant political following. So it may be a little of both of what you said, but the unraveling part, I just don't see it. I think Netanyahu is very strong right now. And of course, he's amazingly strong here in the United States. And by that, I mean on the Hill. Well, we know he's coming on July 24th, I think. One member of Congress, and only one so far, said he won't be in attendance, and that is no surprise, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. stage series of events between Israel and Gaza which would trigger the release of huge numbers of hostages, Palestinian hostages held by the Israelis, Israeli hostages held

by Hamas, and eventually the termination of the utilities. It seems as though it's been rejected by Prime Minister Netanyahu because he will lose his majority if he goes along with this. That according to the two very conservative ministers in his group, Smotrich and Ben-Gabir. Yet the American government insists that this is an Israeli proposal. Now, have we played for you, and if we have, I apologize, Admiral Kirby saying it's an Israeli proposal? I don't know, but I don't think Admiral Kirby has much credibility anymore. All right, well, this will get under your skin. Chris, let's watch Kirby for three times say it's an Israeli proposal.

That proposal, an Israeli proposal, has been given to Hamas. It was done on Thursday night, our time. We're waiting for an official response from Hamas. We would note that publicly Hamas officials came out and welcomed this proposal. This was an Israeli proposal. We have every expectations that if Hamas agrees to the proposal, as was transmitted to them, an Israeli proposal, that Israel would say yes. I think if Mr. Netanyahu announces it, it's an Israeli proposal.

As far as I know, Mr. Netanyahu has not announced any such thing. Secondly, I'm sure there are things going on behind the scenes, both arguments and cooperation, because I'm quite certain that Biden's crowd has said, you've got to throw us a bone. You know, you've got to give us something. We have to be able to say something that conveys the illusion that we are actually interested in an end to the hostilities and some sort of ceasefire. I think that's probably happened. But the notion that this was a hard and fast proposal that came from Prime Minister Netanyahu, that's absurd. Here's Secretary Blinken as he landed in Cairo just two hours ago, Colonel, on the very same topic being buttonholed by my friend Andrea Mitchell of NBC News.

Secretary, you say that everyone but Hamas has agreed to this. Benjamin Netanyahu has certainly said otherwise publicly. And the hostage families are saying you should try everything if this fails. First, let me be very clear. Israel has accepted the proposal. In fact, they were critical in putting it forward. So the only party, no, that is what the official position of the Israeli government and the prime minister. So the only party that has not accepted, the only party that's not said yes is Hamas. Well, Cy Hersh, and we all know his reputation for excellence and triple checking all of his sources, says that this was concocted by the Americans to make Biden look good and to push Netanyahu in a corner. I can't imagine that this was an Israeli proposal, Colonel, but I get it. I understand why these people say what

they say and do what they do. The West Wing is holding its breath until November 5th. Do you think- You know, after Blinken left for the last time, the talks with the Egyptian government in Cairo, where he was talking to General Sisi and his inner circle. Right. I received word from someone who is very close to that inner circle. I said, well, what do you think? Where are things headed? And the answer was, well, that's the last time we're going to pay any attention to Blinken. I said, really?

Why? And they said, well, we're tired of listening to Mr. Netanyahu's talking points. Wow. So I don't believe anything these people say publicly. The truth is that there isn't much daylight between people like Blinken and other members of the cabinet and the White House and Netanyahu, or for that matter, most of the Republicans and large numbers of the Democrats. They are all birds of a feather. Well, we're going to see that when Netanyahu is there. If you were a senator, would you attend the joint session of Congress where Netanyahu is going to speak?

Oh, sure. Absolutely. I would go to simply listen. I would not, you know, staying away isn't going to make any difference. But I certainly would not ask my Israeli minder whether or not I could attend or not attend. So, you know, I wouldn't have one of the minders that apparently exists all over the House and the Senate telling our members how they should vote in matters concerning Israel. Who are the minders? Employees of AIPAC? I'm sure that they, employees of AIPAC? I'm sure that they're agents of AIPAC or AIPAC. AIPAC is full of money.

It's got, you know, inexhaustible resources. If they think they're running out, they can get more. You know, same thing for somebody like David Brock. All of these people are connected and they're all interested in the same thing, which is Israel, period. And bringing us to heel is very easy. You know, we have the best government that money can buy. And to find somebody like Mr. Massey from Kentucky, who is willing to go it alone, is almost incredibly, you know, exceptional, unfortunately.

Thomas Massey is one of my heroes, and I know you have extremely high regard for him as well. His intellect and personal courage and fidelity to the Constitution are extraordinary. Do you think that the Israeli government understands, and you've told us this from day one, not that they understand it, but that they can't do it, that they cannot defeat Hamas? Yes, I think they understand that they can't do it, that they cannot defeat Hamas. Yes, I think they understand that, and I don't think they care. I think their view is that if they can kill or expel the population from Gaza, then turn their guns on the West Bank and push those people out, that that will do more for their security than simply going after the Hamas fighters, per se. And that's what you're watching right now. That's what's happening.

And everyone in the United States is being told to support that, all their representatives. And I think the same attitude towards, unfortunately, Muslim and Christian Arabs that enables mass slaughter, as we saw recently on this raid, is also widespread in many circles in the United States. In other words, why do we care? It's interesting. And I think that has to go back all the way to 9-11. You'll remember how that was handled. And suddenly everyone from Saddam Hussein to Osama bin Laden you know were arch enemies of the world and were all involved and all part of the same uh strategy to destroy America and that they hated us because we were quote unquote free right I think the same uh cocktail level of familiarity with the truth then is now widespread yet again. And of course, it's always made easier to go along

with these things if there's a fat check that goes with it. Last question. We talked about this earlier, but I neglected to ask you. Gonson Netanyahu, wouldn't it really be Tweedledee and Tweedledum, given the 80% of the Israeli public that supports the war. Yeah, I agree. I don't see any end in sight. The only way you get an end to this right now is if serious damage is inflicted on the Israeli population, its cities, its urban areas. That's it. And I think that's one of the reasons that we are nearby we've pre-positioned b-52s and substantial air power to fly in on very short notice and do as much damage as possible certainly to Hezbollah but potentially anybody else we think is capable of threatening Israel

in that fashion but short of that I don't see any evidence that any of this will stop it will just grind on. And I think anybody who thinks otherwise, who doesn't think the Israelis can do it, they're wrong because we subsidize their economy. Their economy couldn't survive without our backing and support. They couldn't operate for more than a few days without the ammunition that we provide. And even though I think their intelligence is very good, I'm sure we're providing them with a lot of regional intelligence and insight that they otherwise might not have. So no, I don't see this ending. I think this is going to go a long way, and we may have to see hundreds of thousands, maybe millions die before something happens. Do your sources indicate to you whether or not there were American special

forces on the ground in Gaza helping to extricate these four hostages? I'm told there were. Beyond that, I don't have any specifics. I don't have any tangible concrete proof but the special ops community over the last 20 years has grown very close with the israelis simply because they frequently helped and assisted us to kill you know the people that we were interested in killing uh so i i wouldn't be surprised by that and i'm sure that the attitude that is that i've tried to articulate is also there. Colonel Douglas McGregor, thank you, my dear friend. I know you have a busy day and a busy week. I appreciate all your time and all your analysis.

As always, I hope we can see you again next week. Okay, good, Judge. Thank you very much. Thank you. All the best. Coming up for the rest of the afternoon at three o'clock, Professor Jeffrey Sachs, and at four o'clock, Anya Parampil, Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. Thank you.