Judging Freedom - Democrats - Who Are They? and Do They Want Trump to Run - with Ellis Henican

Episode Date: February 8, 2022

Author, columnist Ellis Henican joins me to discuss: Democrats - Who Are They? #Democrats #Trump #Pelosi #2022 #2024See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello there everyone, Judge Andrew Napolitano here with Judging Freedom. Today is Tuesday, February 8th, 2022. My guest is a longtime colleague and friend of mine, Ellis Hennigan, a journalist and an expert on, well, I'll let you say it, Ellis, all things involving the Democratic Party. So we're going to talk today about the problems of the Democratic Party. This is not to say that the Republicans don't have their own problems, but when I want to ask an intellectually honest, humorous, and very intelligent person about the Democrats, Ellis is one of the people I go to. Ellis, it's a pleasure to see you again and work with you.

Welcome here, my friend. Bring it on. Great to see you, Judge. All right. So what kind of shape are the Democrats in for November of this year with respect to, let's just start with the House of Representatives. Do the Democrats believe the Republican propaganda that the House is more likely than not to flip and Kevin McCarthy will become the Speaker? Well, I don't think you have to believe propaganda to go there. History teaches that, right? The party that's in the White House usually loses seats in the midterms.

And listen, hope springs eternal. But I think if you're betting, you have to bet that Republicans will take over the House. Why? Why is that? Just because of history or or because the public perception of Joe Biden is not a very good one at this point in his presidency? No, because we hate our leaders. Honestly, I think, yes, there's a lot of negative feeling about Joe Biden out there, but it's deeper than that. I think that we are in a place in America right now, and you feel it, I know you do, where people are just grumpy. I mean, we're not happy about anything. We don't like any of our politicians. We certainly hate both of the parties. And it just so happens that now the Dems are the ones who have their hands on the steering wheel.

So who else are you going to blame? All right. Now, what about the Senate? Do you say the same thing, that it is more likely than not that Mitch McConnell becomes the majority leader and can keep from the Senate floor anything that Joe Biden sends over that McConnell doesn't even want to vote on, just like he did the nomination of Merrick Garland to replace Antonin Scalia? No, no, because the Senate doesn't reflect America as well as the House does. You know, listen, gerrymandering in the House has taken the voters out of the equation in a whole lot of districts.

But still, you know, they're elected every two years. They are more focused on the passions of the people, the Senate. You know, first of all, we're only elect a third of them every two years. And and it's they're more entrenched. They're elected by states. I think if I'm betting, by the way, I'm not pulling for this necessarily, but you're asking me what I'm betting on. I think the most likely result, still early, but the most likely result is that Republicans will grab the House

and Democrats will hang control of the Senate. And who runs the party? How can the same party have AOC and Joe Manchin? I don't need to say that about the Republicans. We'll get to them in a minute. But who runs the Democratic Party? I mean, last week, AOC said capitalism is gone and we have to redistribute to wealth. Now, Joe Biden probably wouldn't even or Joe Manchin wouldn't even give that the time of day.

But if forced to answer, he would tell her to go fly a kite. Joe Biden would probably say the same thing. So I think you're right on. You're right on both Joe's. Listen, it's mathematical. Let me let me step back to this extent. Big tent, right? I mean, both of these parties, in order to win, have got to get a majority. And the only way in a big, diverse country like this you can get a majority is to be very tolerant of the people you're

willing to take. And so if you want to focus on the Dems a second, yes, you cannot get elected in West Virginia or in my home state of Louisiana as AOC. The only Democrats who have a prayer in a place like that are fairly conservative. And also there are parts of this country, and New York City is I guess one of them, where there's a great energy and taste and desire for some pretty progressive politics. So if either party is going to win, they've got to be willing to embrace a pretty broad perspective of people. I think the Democrats make a mistake when they forget that message, when they try to drive people out who were not part of the progressive orthodoxy.

Why does Joe Biden allow himself to be tugged so far to the left? He's been a moderate his entire career. I mean, stated differently, do the Democrats not control the House of Representatives if the progressives won't go along because the legislation isn't leftish enough for them? Well of all nobody controls the house of representatives have you met any of these people i mean they are the biggest oozing egos you've ever run into your life good luck trying to trying to corral any of them all they care about is getting re-elected and they will do anything party don't care about party they care about themselves um i'm gonna take issue with you a little bit on how how how lefty Joe Biden supposedly is.

Listen, he's got to play to all the corners of his party. And that requires a certain amount of, you know, left leaning rhetoric. But I don't know that the guy is such a leftist. I don't think he's a lefty at all. I think he's a Quinton. I think he's as moderate as Joe Manchin. Yeah. I think he's as moderate as Joe Manchin. But he has to play to the left because if the progressives don't vote with Mrs. Pelosi, she loses the vote. Am I right?

Well, yeah. You're right. I think he has to play to the left. But he also has to play to the middle. I mean, I'll give you the perfect hot-button issue, right? Defund the police, right? One of the dumbest slogans that's ever been invented in the history of politics. If you poll it, something like 80% of people are against it.

Just a bad back. Now, listen, you and I can talk about police reform all day. There's all kind of stuff wrong with the way we police in this country and an awful lot of things you can do to make it better. But that's not the banner to carry. Okay, agreed. Do the lefties really believe that or is that just the starting point of the debate? I would say, you know, maybe over on the edge, there's a few people who believe it. I don't think any smart political person would utter that phrase. I mean, it just turns people off. You know, talk about reforming the police.

I mean, you know, there's all kinds of stuff. The cops, we ought to be dealing with policing in so many different ways. I mean, increasingly, it's a mental health issue, really, is what we're asking cops to do. And the old drug laws and so much of the old criminal code is really not an effective way to give us the lives we want. But, no, it's an absolutely awful slogan. All right. to give us the lives we want. But no, it's an absolutely awful slogan. All right. Do the Democrats want Donald Trump to be the Republican nominee in 2024?

Ooh, boy. Stated differently, do they think he'll bring the Republican Party crashing down, or do they fear him? You know, I wrestle with that thing late at night myself. I mean, there's arguments on both sides of it. I'm not really sure where I stand. He is toxic in many ways. But man, who would be stronger as a Republican candidate? You know, he does have

an amazing ability to connect with a lot of people. He's a leader that symbolizes stuff to people who hate politics. He's been able to speak to the middle part of the country pretty effectively. Is Ron DeSantis going to be able to do that? I don't know. But I will say this. Let's focus on the midterm just a second. The more that he controls the Republican platform and who gets to be the Republican nominees across the country, the worse it is for Republicans, because he's going to put up a bunch of people that might make me wrong at the beginning of our conversations, that might really give Dems a shade. You put a bunch of crazy Republicans out there, Democrats are going to beat them. Isn't his choice of Republican candidates, whether they're in primaries or whether they're not in primaries, basically based on revenge? His wish for revenge against Republicans of the year voted to impeach him or didn't adequately support him. Look at Lindsey Graham. One day he loves Graham.

The next day he's saying all kinds of awful things about him. Yes. All politics is personal when it comes to the former guy. Yes, you're right. The best way to make Trump like you is to like him. All right. But what do the Democrats think? What do the elected officeholders think? What would Chuck Schumer say if I were to ask him, do you want Trump as the head of a ticket in 2024, or do you fear him? This is the way I would put it. And I think Schumer would give you the same answer. It's a high-risk gamble, right? I mean, he does, if you believe, and I think you do, that most elections are settled in the middle somewhere, right, with the people who are not hardcore ideologues in either direction. You know, you got to win the ones between the two 40-yard

lines. Who's going to appeal to them and who's going to drive them away? Like, I'll give you an example. The case that Chris Christie is making, and full disclosure, I've written a couple of books with Governor Christie, so I think I'm pretty tuned into his thinking. He believes that in the end, that in the end, you got to move beyond Trump. You got to find some way to articulate Republican values in a way that does not have the toxicity of Donald Trump. And that'll be an interesting play. I'm glad you raised him because I was going to ask you about him, toxicity of Donald Trump. And that'll be an interesting play. I'm glad you raised him because I was going to ask you about him,

knowing of your affiliation with him. I have also known him for many, many years, and we communicate privately from time to time. We're both Jersey guys. Governor Christie believes he is the only nationally known Republican acceptable to both camps, the pro-Trump camp and the anti-Trump camp of the Republican Party. He also believes if he had to go toe-to-toe with Trump, he is the only Republican, period, who has the strength of personality and the pugnacity to go toe-to-toe with Trump. Do you agree with those two statements? I'll tell you this. I would pay money to watch a one-on-one debate between the two of them. I mean, that would be pretty wild. May you and I be so lucky as to witness that collision.

I'm friends with both of them. I'm going to offer myself as the moderator of that debate. But you're right. It'll be the highest watched debate in American history. But to be serious for a minute, because they're both characters. Some of my Republican friends say, you know, Christie should go back on television. His days in politics are finished. Others say, yeah, like Ellis Hennigan. Christie's the only one that can go toe to toe with Trump.

And some say, yeah, Christie can save the Republican Party. And others say, what the heck does the Republican Party stand for today? You either like Trump or you dislike him. What else do they stand for? Where are you on all this? Yeah, I think you're right. This is what I would say. I would say that at the moment, advantage Trump, right? If you do any polling among the kind of people who vote in Republican primaries, they're Trump people by and large. You know, his approval ratings are still sky high.

His message still resonates. People still turn out in huge numbers for his appearances. Will that be true nearly three years from now? I don't think anybody, including Chris Christie, knows the answer to that. So I would say now Trump's in the front of the pack, but there's a long, long time to go. Does Christie confront problems in his record as governor of New Jersey? I mean, he left as the most unpopular governor in modern times. There's that infamous picture of him on the beach.

I don't know why he was there. A beach that he had closed to everybody in the state. It's a beautiful 10-mile beach on an island off the coast of New Jersey called Long Beach Island. And he was there with his wife and family and friends. I mean, does he have to answer for those things? Oh, listen, I mean, in politics, you got to answer for everything. I don't, I, you know, in the end, I don't think that will be determinative. I think Republicans first in choosing their nominee will figure out what the vision for the future is. I mean, I'll tell you this, the more Donald

Trump talks about 2020, the less he's the candidate of the future. The more he can articulate some kind of vision that stirs people up and gets excited, that how we get stronger i think if donald trump is indicted either by a grand jury in new york city for some sort of uh uh tax or insurance fraud on on valuing about valuing his uh buildings or by a grand jury in Atlanta alleging an attempt to interfere with the vote counting in that state. Do those things help him or hurt him with Republican primary voters? And bear in mind, in some states, his name won't be on the ballot just because he's indicted.

Let's just put that aside. Do those indictments generate support or fear amongst Republican primary voters? Yeah, I bow to you on the legalisms there. But I would say that among the base, if anything, it makes him love the guy more. I mean, two impeachments didn't undermine his popularity with the people who loved him. There is a point, Judge, I think, where the folks in the middle that we were talking about, where they finally reach a point of like, oh, it's just too much, too much drama, too much anger, just too much. And so, yeah, listen, I'm not going to say

that indictment would help anybody in office, but all these equations are a little different with Donald Trump. Ellis, you haven't changed in all these But all these equations are a little different with Donald Trump. Ellis, you haven't changed in all these years. It's a pleasure to be with you. Will you come back? It's always, it's always, I got to tell you, man, let's be serious, it's really nice to talk to somebody who likes to debate and think both

instead of just going to one corner or the other. I'll do, I will do live debate with you anytime, buddy. Oh, God bless you. You are the Democrat I love the most. It is true, man. Ellis Anikin, it's a pleasure. My friends, Judge Napolitano, judging freedom.