Judging Freedom - Dennis Kucinich : Why Congress Loves War

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

Dennis Kucinich : Why Congress Loves WarSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Thank you. Hi, everyone. Judge Andrew Napolitano here for Judging Freedom. Today is Wednesday, July 3rd, 2024, the day before the Fourth of July holiday weekend. Congressman Dennis Kucinich is my guest today. Congressman Kucinich, of course, is the youngest mayor of Cleveland in its history and a longtime member of the House of Representatives, where he was truly the conscience of the Constitution, something that...

...seeking to recapture his old congressional seat. Congressman Kucinich, it's a pleasure. Welcome back here, my dear friend. Thank you very much, Judge. I just want to say at the beginning, you and I met each other years ago when we were both working for Fox. And I've always been deeply impressed by your, not only the depth of your constitutional knowledge, but your real commitment to freedom in the strictest sense. So it's such an honor for me to be on your show. Thank you so much. Well, thank you, Dennis. We do agree on a lot of things, not the least of which was we were both hired by Roger Ailes. So he saw the value in a progressive Democrat and a libertarian Republican both working for him at the same time.

Here we are agreeing on the central issues of the day, mass surveillance, war and peace. Let's start with war and peace. Let's start with war and peace. In all your years in Congress, you must have been banging your head against the wall. Why does Congress love war, either by paying for it without declaring it, or by looking the other way when the president wages it, or by doing both? Well, first of all, you know, I'm sure that many of your viewers already know that the Constitution of the United States defines the responsibilities and the powers of Congress and Article 1 and of the executive branch in Article 2 of the Constitution. But what's happened is this Congress has ignored its Article I responsibilities.

Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution makes it very clear that Congress and Congress alone shall have the war power. If there's an emergency, the president can respond. However, most of these wars that we've been involved in have not involved emergencies. They've involved a contrived and dedicated effort to drag our country into wars. And so Congress has shirked its responsibility. It doesn't declare war, but then it appropriates massive amounts of money for these wars. And if there's one thing I'm sure of now, it's that the American people have had it up to here with these forever wars. But what they need to know is that Congress has the ultimate responsibility here, and they've been shirking it. I would argue, in accordance with your lines, that not only, in accordance with what you're

saying, that not only does Congress declare war, but the president cannot fight any war he wants. We're not talking about the ships in New York Harbor from a foreign government about to attack. Of course, the president can do the right thing. We're not talking about George W. Bush asleep on 9-11. Of course, had he not been asleep, I don't mean literally asleep, of course, he could have stopped that before it happened. We're talking about these wars like in Ukraine, like when Barack Obama used the CIA to bomb Libya and like all the slaughter that's going on in Gaza. Let's start with Ukraine. I would argue, Congressman, tell me if you agree with me, that even though Congress has the war power, due to treaties we've signed, it can't declare war on Russia.

Russia poses no military threat to the United States at the present time. On the contrary, we pose a military threat to Russia. We just bombed their beach on Sevastopol on a Sunday afternoon of a holiday? Yeah, I will say that, first of all, the Ukrainian people have suffered mightily from this tug-of-war that started with the United States engineering a coup against the government of Ukraine, taking it over, and then beginning to advance a policy of aggressive action in both Donetsk and Luhansk provinces. So we have a situation where the United States, this government, has pushed for this war in Ukraine. The Ukrainians have lost over 600,000 people in this war. The flower of their youth has been decimated on a battlefield. They're now in a position where

the government of Ukraine is privatizing massive amounts of farmland, which is another way of destroying the patrimony of Ukraine. Ukraine has been basically destroyed because of this war instinct. And Russia, there could have been a peace deal two years ago, but it was sabotaged by Boris Johnson at the request of the United States. I mean, we really have to stop this effort on the part of our nation of continuing to go abroad, seeking for dragons to slay, and we must stop spending all this money for these foreign wars. Judge, you know, since 9-11, America has spent upwards of $8 trillion on these forever wars, and that's almost a quarter of the existing national debt. So we're ruining our country

by not paying attention to things here at home. How do you as a member of Congress, let's say you return to Congress, which I dearly, dearly hope that you are. How do you as an independent in the House of Representatives, man, there may be a tie in the House of Representatives, which would make you the most powerful person on Capitol Hill, Congressman Kucinich. I can only dream about that. But how do you, as a member of the House of Representatives, deal with all your neocon colleagues who seem to populate three quarters to four fifths of the Congress? New Year in the Bay with WGU. With courses available online 24-7 and monthly start dates, WGU offers maximum flexibility so you can focus on your future. Learn more at wgu.edu.

Look at the vote on the money going to Ukraine, Taiwan, and Israel. It was overwhelming. You had AOC and her progressive buddies on the left. You had Thomas Massey and his libertarian buddies on the right. And the vast majority of Congress in between voting spend, spend, spend, kill, kill, kill. Yeah, I mean, for my part, I raised my voice from the highest point in the land there on Capitol Hill. And I let people know exactly what's going on. They may not want to hear it. You know, unfortunately, those voices, which were much more powerful 20 years ago, have now been muted, particularly within the Democratic Party. And so, you know, from my position, if the Congress is split down the middle, as you have suggested it could be, 217 Democrats, 217 Republicans, and one independent myself, I will use that position in every way to stop these forever wars,

to stop sending all this money overseas without taking care of things here at home, to seal the border, to stop government spying on people. Remember, this Section 702 was expanded by a single vote in the House. Had I been there, it would have never happened. And so, you know, one person can make a difference, particularly in a split Congress. And I know how this works, Judge. You know, I was instrumental in stopping the war in Serbia. I held up the war for several days against Libya. You know, I warned the Congress after 9-11, there was no proof that Iraq had anything to do with it.

I was able to organize at least 126 members of the House to vote against the Iraq War resolution. So, you know, this is a position that I know how to put in service of the American people, and the people of the 7th District will have a voice, and because of that, the American people will have a voice for peace, for freedom, for fiscal integrity, and for making sure that we have borders in our country and that we protect our borders, seal them off, and remain a sovereign nation. Congressman Massey agrees with you on many things. I recently told my friend and former colleague Tucker Carlson that every member of Congress has a minder from AIPAC, the American Israeli Political Action Committee, arguably the most

powerful lobbying group on Capitol Hill. I would imagine you don't have such a minder. Are they contributing to your opponents? We haven't talked about Gaza yet, but we will. But is money coming into your congressional district from the people in the 7th District will ultimately make this decision. But we know from, let's say, the recent race in New York State with Bowman, how much money came in. I mean, I hear various reports from $13 million upwards in a congressional race. That's an astonishing amount of money. And the real question is, should a lobby that represents another country have to register as foreign lobbyists, and should they be permitted to have this kind of an impact on a political system?

I mean, the whole thing about having a nation is you have sovereignty. And to have other nations or any other country come in and to help set the political agenda in our countries shouldn't be permitted, period. I mean, we're America. We remember a few years ago, President Trump was falsely accused of being a tool of Russia. And everyone was, you know, the Democrats raised the issue and everyone was all upset, oh my God, Russia, Russia. Well, Russia did not interfere in our election. But we have another country which is interfering in our election through their lobbyists in Washington.

And that really undermines who we are as a nation. descendants from the British crown in order to become dependent and directed by those who have first interests in another country. And so I think, yes, the answer to that is yes, they're having an influence. But I think the people will make the ultimate call. There is one thing I want to say. You mentioned Congressman Massey. He has been fearless in his defense of the Constitution and in challenging this attempt to hijack our country. But there is one thing I want to say. You know, he recently and unexpectedly lost his beloved wife, Rhonda. And I just want to offer on behalf of our constituents there and people who love Congressman Massey from all over the country, our sincerest sympathies. What a heartbreaking moment for a great American patriot. Yes. Thomas is a wonderful person.

He's been a friend of mine for many years. His broken heart and his wife's eternal salvation of her soul are in my prayers. I don't know what the cause of death was. The last time I saw her, she looked very healthy. And then all of a sudden we got the word that she was gone. Thomas Massey is a Methodist. But when the Pope addressed Congress, this Methodist congressman gave me a ticket to the best seat in the house. So there I was seated,

eye contact with the Pope. Behind the Pope was my Catholic governor of New Jersey friend, Chris Christie. Now we're across the whole House of Representatives and he's mouthing me, how did you get that seat? He's looking at the back of the Pope. I'm making eye contact. Answer, a Protestant congressman named Thomas Massey. Religious freedom is wonderful in America. It's one of the many freedoms we celebrate on the 4th of July. Yeah, it's a great human being. Is trying to resist the impulse toward war, whether it's aid to Israel or whether it's aid to Ukraine because the president of the United States has an antiquated Cold War view of Russia, which is no longer realistic. Is efforts to resist that fruitless in the Congress? It's imperative that we resist war. You know, we're in a whole new era. This Cold War mentality that you mentioned, Your Honor, is something that binds us to forever war.

We have our, you know, we're spending hundreds of billions of dollars now. We're going to at least add another trillion dollars to the national debt within the next couple of years because of the focus on war, war, war. What about things here at home? Don't we have enough problems here? I talk to people who are struggling with their mortgages, with their rent, with the cost of energy, with the cost of health care and food and education for their children and child care, on and on. And their government's looking over here and not paying any attention to what the needs of the people are in America. I say, take care of things here at home. Quit going around the world looking for dragons to slay. Quit spending the hard-earned

tax dollars of the American people in these forever wars. Stop it. And the Congress can cut off funds. That's what Congress's power is. I think you will be a voice crying in the wilderness. As much as I agree with that voice, and as much as I admire your courage and love you as a friend, I think they're going to turn a deaf ear to you because for some reason they love war, whether it's enriching the military industrial complex, whether it's boasting back home, we're not afraid, we'll fight any war. You know that macho mentality. That has now infected the Democratic Party as well as the Republican Party. You will literally be a voice in the wilderness when you make these arguments on the floor of the House. If they let you make them, you know what this is, what the House is like. It's not like the Senate.

They're going to say, okay, Kucinich gets two minutes and nobody will listen. Your Honor, I know the rules of the House. I've studied them. And I know how to get into a debate. I know how to use parliamentary procedure. I know how to use the rules of the House to insert myself on behalf of my constituents into debates about these great issues that you talk about. And this truly is a moment when one person can make a difference. You know, a single voice that speaks out loud can change the world. And I'm there to help redirect by working with both sides of the aisle, because I have the ability to do that. I've always had friends on both sides of the aisle. But as an independent, I'll be in a position to be able to help steer

America in a different course. I mean, right now, except for the few people that you mentioned, you know, Congress is basically on a course towards endless war. But our nation cannot survive that. We cannot survive it. And so I know how to define the key issues. For example, a couple of weeks ago, I let the American people know that in the National Defense Authorization Act, there's a provision to have automatic registration for the draft. And the Senate version wants to include women. We'd have the government putting into the database 32 million young Americans who, you know, to me, it could be a form of slavery where you reach out and you grab people and you put these databases together and you create these

wars and then you bring the young people in and put their lives on the line for what? So, you know, we're losing our freedom in this country because of wars. That's the other issue. It's not just you bring the young people in and put their lives on the line for, for what? So, you know, we, we're losing our freedom in this country because of wars. That's the other issue. It's not just an undermining of the budget. Well, you're, you're right about that. And the legislation you talked about, the NDAA, the National Defense Authorization Act, which is about a thousand pages long. There's no debate on, over, over the draft. They just sneak it in. The draft absolutely is a form of slavery. I would argue it's unconstitutional morally from the perspective of the natural law and unconstitutional from the perspective of the 13th Amendment, which prohibits

slavery except as punishment for a crime. But you're talking about conscripting people against their will for an opportunistic war that the United States doesn't even have a dog in the race. I don't know that the American people will accept that, Dennis, but the Congress, which represents special interests, is going to give it to us anyway. Well, if they're coming for your kids, let me tell you, I'm someone, you know, I helped get the word out about this. And you're right about the constitutional implications. I have focused on the Fourth and Fifth Amendment as being in play here with automatic registration for the draft. And again, American people largely don't know about this, and they don't learn about

it until afterwards. Remember, I voted against the Patriot Act because I read it. And most members didn't even read it because they swapped the bill out at the last minute. So, you know, there's a lot of games that go on there. And my return to Congress is going to give people an opportunity to have a congressman they can call their own, unbought, unbossed, somebody who's ready to take a stand and let people know what's going on and how their tax hours are being spent. Can Congress run the government without borrowing trillions a year? Well, they're going to have to because this approach that we have of just putting everything on the national credit card. And again, we got into trouble over all these wars that's where you know that and and of course the bailout of wall street right you know that added trillions uh

covet the way that was handled and added trillions you know the government our government has to start focusing on the basic purposes of our republic, and that is to make sure that the needs of the people are met and that, you know, you go back to the preamble of the Constitution, that laid it out pretty simply. We need to remember what we're about and this And there's this effort to try to turn our government into a policeman of the world. We must not continue that. We have to stop these forever wars. We have to remember our war battles. Last question or last subject matter.

You're running as an independent, but you've been a lifelong Democrat. Should President Biden drop out of the race? You know, that's a decision he's going to have to make. But look, this debate that happened the other day, from what I saw, there was really nothing new in terms of his presentation. It may have been halting. It may have slurred some words. But that's been going on for several years. At one point when everybody sees it, it's like people go, whoa, wait a minute. Is he ready to go forward with the office? I think that's a question that he has to decide.

Ultimately, the American people are going to make their judgment in November as to whether or not, if he remains on a ballot, which I think he will, by the way, if he remains on a ballot, it'll be up to the American people to make their assessment. But it was certainly a moment for great concern. And I think that, you know, there's a number of members of Congress who are starting to speak out and raise questions about whether he should go forward. As we came to air, the New York Times is reporting that apparently he has told a close friend, unidentified, of course, in the Times, that he's having second thoughts about staying in the race. We'll see how this developing story ends up. Congressman Kucinich, it's always a pleasure. I can't wait until I can congratulate you.

Maybe I'll get to introduce you at some point. I'd love that. A new member of Congress from the great state of Ohio. But thank you for joining us. Always a pleasure. All my best to you, dear friend. Judge, anybody needs information or wants to make a contribution, please go to Kucinich.com now. I can make a difference in that Congress for not just the 7th District of Ohio, but for the country. Thanks so much. Thank you. All the best. A real fighter for the Constitution, a person who really understands the Bill of Rights and understands the concept of limited government, maximum individual liberty and peace. Okay, coming up the rest of today at two o'clock, Colonel Douglas McGregor. At three o'clock, Phil Giraldi.

At four o'clock, Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson. And at five o'clock, worth waiting for, Max Blumenthal. Judge Napolitano for Judging Freedom. We'll see you next time. WGU is an online accredited university that specializes in personalized learning. With courses available 24-7 and monthly start dates, you can earn your degree on your schedule. You may even be able to graduate sooner than you think by demonstrating mastery of the material you know. Make 2025 the year you focus on your future. Learn more at wgu.edu.